Climate Change and the Failure of Market Mechanisms

[MrIzzyDizzy]

Maybe a story on some good news for a change,i know thats not the mission, but a story on masdar city may provide some encouragement.

[akkonburike]

C'mon dudes we need to show the elites who's boss ^.^ Thumbs up for my previous comment m(_)m

[akkonburike]

It's almost too late to cut carbon emissions sufficiency (that's the newest science with a DROP of realism) and we're all DOOMED if the cut fails. Yet cutting CO2 wont halt resource depletion per se.

But there are solutions: Relocalization; Reurbanisation; Fusion; A real space station etc. These projects create opportunities & smash dead end jobs.

Markets can't do this, this can only be done by the states. However getting China, India, USA etc to work together on this -- that's the tricky part.

[shiningirisheyes]

The CO2 AGW is a lot of fake science. This was a idea made in 1974 club of Rome on ways to control humanity.If you control carbon you control everything that is part of the life cycle.Then you can tax people for the carbon they make breathing .What no money then its bullet in the head for not paying your carbon tax.The oil and gas companies like it as they produce less CO2 per kilowatt than cheap coal electric power stations so they drive coal power stations out of business.AGW is junk science

[watercup123456]

@shiningirisheyes Stop listening to alex jones you fucking moron.

[shiningirisheyes]

@watercup123456 I came the same conclusion as Alex Jones about a years before I Knew of the existence of Alex Jones . I think nivendyer above remark for Christmas cooling your rear end says it best so i thumbed up nivendyer for his in your face not politically correct Christmas cheer

[Benwoodruff]

Carbon credits are a flawed system. It works great for systems like SO2 since those are released in only heavy industry and easy to monitor. The largest source of greenhouse gas from man's activity is the methane from animal waste. Are we going to monitor every cow's butt?

Markets work when they can work.

[PoliceViolence]

I want to go to one such conference. I have no idea about climate change but neither does anybody else there. It looks like a hell of a party. Probably free hookers.

[Usernametobechanged]

I don't give a fuck if man made climate change is real or not, we're polluting the air more kids are getting asthma, we're polluting the waters and marine creatures are suffering, we're destroying habitats, we're killing everything, regardless if our actions are making the world hotter or not we've got a lot more to be worried about if we keep going down this same path

If you don't believe we cause climate change fine,if you don't believe we should protect the environment sorry you're a dumbass

[akrulla]

They ony care about making money, they don't care about the environment....

[mortalisk]

The government is the only reason why it is still cheaper to ship stuff around the entire globe in stead of producing it locally. Almost every government in the world is holding it's own people as slaves to some industry that is just so very important. In itself this is a waste, but in addition it means that in effect governments keep down wages in the producing countries, so in stead of the economy developing, they are just maintaining the status quo. Most waste is due to governments.

[buff24seven]

the only thing the government has not implemented yet is a way to put a tax on the air we breath,but there working on it.

[shintsu01]

difficult to follow this one due to missing audio so now and then :(

[slade420]

remember its was criminals like Ken Lay of Enron fraud that helped create carbon markets. a leopard cant change its spots.

[akkonburike]

Thumbs up for my previous comment ^.^

[akkonburike]

It's too late to cut our carbon emissions sufficiently (that's the newest science with a DROP of realism).

Also, humanity is DOOMED if these desperate attempts to cut CO2 emissions fail.

But there are better ideas: Fusion; A real space station; De-globalization etc In other words: Exiting projects to focus our research are needed.

Markets can't do research, this can only be done by the state(s). However, getting China, India, USA etc to work together on this -- that's the tricky part.

[dookiecheez]

@akkonburike

Too late for what? The fact is the slower global warming occurs the better. Whether or not we can hault it's progress and reverse it before it reaches a threshold or tipping point is not the be all and end all.

[akkonburike]

@dookiecheez C'mon dudes don't make me beg.

[dookiecheez]

@akkonburike

I assure you I am only one dude. What would you be begging me for exactly?

[akkonburike]

@dookiecheez It was a joke, a little bit down the page I was begging for "thumbs up".

[237Michael]

The "Harper Government" transformed Canada into the "PollutionSaurus Rex" of the world.

[shiningirisheyes]

@237Michael Well it could save Canada from this junk science CO2 AGW. Even if the world cut emmisions by 50% the effects wouldn't reduce the temperature any useful amount even if the AGW science were true.So you might as well burn oil gas coal baby and live it up as the evidence is CO2 doesn't effect temperature by any significant amount.To double the CO2 in the planet might raise temperatures by 2C and it would take 20 times as much carbon burning than we now do as the oceans soak it up

[BabylonsKing]

Only an IDIOT would think man is responsible for Climate Change and a Dumber IDIOT to make the People think that Man Can Fix it. You all do know that the ICE on the MOONS of Saturn as well as many of the other surrounding planets is MELTING don't you? You Foolish folks have heard of that Bright Object out there Called the "SUN" I hope? That's your Problem and I for one Guarantee You can't Do a thing about it's Movements. Even Al Gore the PIG Money Changer who should be IN PRISON CAN'T FIX IT!

[oralyon]

@BabylonsKing you need to drop by pothler54 channel and get educated.

[237Michael]

@BabylonsKing Evidence shows that man activities are contributing to climate change. Yes, the Sun is slowly getting brighter, as expected, but that does not explain out the correlation between the increase in human produced carbon emissions and global warming. The Earth is our only spaceship, and evidence (in this case, lack of) shows that there will be no extraterrestrials out there to save us from super a hot planet (only idiots would think that). We must stop this process now!

[shiningirisheyes]

@237Michael Well this evidence seems to be faking the data as seen from emails that exposed this faking the data.temperatures were in fact flat lining if anything even going down.In fact the next thirty years we can expect more cold weather as the sun goes into a down cycle in its brightness.CO2 only contributes less than ~6% to heating the world where H2O traps more than ~94% of the reflected infra red heat and most of that is trapped in the first 30ft of the planet. CO2 will cook us LOL

[BassGoesBoom1]

@237Michael According to NASA-"Scientists said Thursday that"extraterrestrial environmentalists"could become so angry about what we have done to the planet that they may see us a threat to the intergalactic ecosystem-and take action by attacking Earth"

International business times August 19 2011

The climate alarmists are becoming ever more crazy as they try to scare people into believing this junk.I mean aliens attack because Joe 6pack left his nightlight on? give me a break

[captcrais101]

@BabylonsKing That is like saying it is idiotic to say that the oil companies is responsible for the destruction of the gulf. Oh wait THEY ARE. It is like saying that it is idiotic to believe coal companies are destroyiong the mountains. Oh wait. THEY ARE!! Is it idiotic to say that a pesticide, made by Bayer is killing the bees, google Gaucho. NO! You are the idiot. Not the environmentalists.

[dookiecheez]

@BabylonsKing

You do realize that climatologists are well aware of the selective warming on other planets, and that it such warming can only be explained by other factors such as changes in albido, not solar forcing?

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

The market has ZERO morals of any kind. Profit is the only thing that drives "the market".

[akkonburike]

Boys, please, please, please dump up the first comment I made.

The 1st comment that's us -- the "stupid" YouTuber -- giving "the finger" to the liberal elites and @StarcrossedPacific.

[akkonburike]

Cutting the emissions sufficiently -- it's almost too late for that [sic].

Also, it's GAME OVER if the desperate attempt to cut the carbon emissions fails.

But there are alternative approaches: Fusion, AIs, a new space program, the "relocalization of the global economy", de-globalization etc This is research work and it requires a bloated, never ending research budget -- not markets.

However getting China, India, USA etc to work together -- this is going to be the real challenge.

[akkonburike]

@akkonburike Oh no no: I forgot to mention that Geo-engineering isn't as scary as it sounds: Extracting CO2, Planting trees (on a large scale) etc -- the Iter tokamak is vastly more complicated than Geo-engineering...

[ajmprovidence]

Research climate gate and climate gate 2. People who believe in global warming are basing their beliefs on falsified facts. Let's worry about real issues like toxic waste being put in the water supply and outdated dangerous nuclear power plants all over the world.

[StarcrossedPacific]

the contrast between the intellectual level of the real news and the viewership on youtube is baffling. all the science deniers here should probably stick to alex jones tv.

[gijs370]

@StarcrossedPacific Scientist are people too. They make mistakes and have their own biases. The IPCC exists to prove catastrophic climate-change, without it it would not have a reason for existence. The climate-gate e-mails (1 and 2) do not show deception but do show a clear bias.

I don't blame them. I do blame the media for the ridiculous hype created around climate-change. Of course it is a problem but we shouldn't wreck our economy trying to prevent it.

[MustacheVerra]

@StarcrossedPacific everybody have their price body. Scientist too. And they were cut lying.

[StarcrossedPacific]

@MustacheVerra every single scientific organization on the planet is bought then? and when have they been caught lying? if you say climate gate you are outting yourself as ignorant.

[bonnevie9]

People who deny climate change have their head up their ass. It has been well known for at least 50 years . Now that regulations to stop pollution have been put into place and is cutting into a corporations profits it is political . It's like the idiot fishermen who dont want their catches limited even though they will wipe out the fish population. I bet all the deniers did not study science . I bet they did study business and the bible

[elbowbiter1]

@bonnevie9 And the problem won't go away until we eliminate money and market systems; and create a society that can actually change with our changing understanding of the world, instead of descending into cultural lag in order to keep alive out dated institutions.

[bonnevie9]

@elbowbiter1 You know I never thought of it that way , but as I ponder that I don't think we will ever see that in our life time . I am not sure if mankind will ever be evolved enough to bring that idea to the forefront . Did you see the negative comments about my comments? Where were you ?I thought you had my back. The only comebacks I am going to give to them are things I am going to do to their mothers. I can't waste my time really trying to explain things to them .

[gijs370]

@bonnevie9 It's not well known for 50 years. In the 70ties most climate-scientists thought we would have global-cooling because of the pollution in the air. In the 90ties they thought we would have global-warming and this last decade they changed it to 'climate-change'.

Climate-change itself is well known, for billions of years the climate has changed. This is of course a problem because there are billions of people now depended on a shrinking biodiversity food-supply.

[bonnevie9]

@gijs370 What you state is bullshit , since you did not study science in a university in the 70's nevermind 60's and 50's . My father did and it was known then and I did in the early nineties. Your statement at the end is a pretty broad .

[gijs370]

@bonnevie9 They are many problems that need our attention. The only reason why politicians create a big hype around 'climate-change' is because politicians use it to increase taxes, so they can't spend more on their nonsense government-programs and have more control. It's not a surprise that the left-wing is the biggest supporter.

[MustacheVerra]

@gijs370 Oh you're thinking too far ahead for these emotional individual. I'm afraid you lost them. But it's true, the establishment will only use this crisis to centralize power in their hands.

[MustacheVerra]

@bonnevie9 Calling people name like scientist deniers just show how low you guys are willing to go. And it refers to the Holocaust. Well then maybe it's time to expose the big lie? So i dare you to show me the big "sealed" gas chambers that were used in those camps. Go ahead. You can go online and prove me wrong as all information is readily available.. Show it to me. No name calling just show me huge "sealed" gas chamber. Well of course you cant because there were none. So shut up!

[akkonburike]

@MustacheVerra My comment on the bottom of the page is a win for all of us. Please thumb it up.

[MustacheVerra]

@akkonburike Sorry I'm not sure i really understood your comment. You say it's to late anyway? & the part after i didn't get? Language barrier i guess.

BTW i say we should wait 20/30 years & see how our planet handle itself. Because we don't understand the whole system and how it regulates itself etc. I have a strong believe this system is very solid and can handle a lot more. But you see the left wing establishment cant wait because they'd be loosing an a great opportunity to centralize power

[akkonburike]

@MustacheVerra We probably wont agree, but the liberal elites are the problem -- and not the leftists.

Nevermind, I only wanted to pointed out alternatives "against" climate change. Because the media are debating one thing, and one thing only: Desperate attempts to cut CO2 emissions.

[bonnevie9]

@MustacheVerra First of all your an ignorant idiot . Second , you make no sense there fore you would not understand what I would explain . third , I did your mom real good last night and gave her a quarter tip.

[nivendyer]

Merry Christmas everybody and remember not too much coal on the fire and dont cook the turkey too long or keep your christmas lights on cause they are all causing climate change!

HO HO HO. PEACE AND LOVE

[PATLARNAK212]

cutting carbon is cutting human activity!!! I guess it was the goal all allong!

[formerutuber]

@PATLARNAK212 if human activity is destructive, then, yes, cut it.

[MustacheVerra]

@formerutuber You idiot. You're so emotionally attached to this crisis you'd be willing to comet suicide without realizing it.

[Laoch111]

If we keep feeding this capitalism monster, the planet will be damaged beyond repair and die.

[ajmprovidence]

Governments are waking up to te fraud and refusing to pay banksters for emitting co2...one of the main building blocks of life.

[herne]

The stuff coming out of those big pipes is real pollution, not CO2 (which is a clear gas)!

[McamelyneII]

The cap and trade scheme is to riddled with holes and abuses. We need to move to a straight carbon tax and use the money to buy up coal-plants and decommission them. This will allow emissions free producers a stable price environment to work in allowing banks to provide financing.

[sirshaneyboy]

Man-made global warming, sounds like a lovely conspiracy theory.

How arrogant can man be to believe that he can change the climate.

Another ponzi scheme dreamt up by Al Gore and his banking buddies.

I thought this was the "real news"?

Highly disappointing :-(

[watercup123456]

@sirshaneyboy Right... Because MILLIONS of scientists and students all working independently of each other and coming to the same conclusion is a giant conspiracy made up by al gore.

How fucking completely stupid are you?

YOU are the reason shit is so fucked up. You and your fucking stupidity. That is what has allowed things to get so bad. Pathetic.

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

@sirshaneyboy Shill.

[june201955]

History has shown that climate change is a natural occurance. It's going to happen whether we like it or not. What about the "man made" things that absolutely do create dangerous changes to humanity? Like tainted vaccines, GMO foods, flouride water, Chemtrails, or the use of H.A.A.R.P.?

[valhala56]

@june201955 First off yeah climate change is natural and they have Scientific data, historical record that proves it. The mini Ice age of the 17th century, tree ring data, ice core data ect. The difference is that is happening at an accelerated pace. Much much faster then the slow pace of previous epochs. If your alive now owning a house in Miami, your house could be submerged in your lifetime.

But you know what, I think it is past the tipping point & arguing about it now is purely academic.

[watercup123456]

@june201955 Are you stupid, crazy, or just trolling?

[june201955]

@watercup123456 Nope! But according to your channel (with nothing on it since joined back in 08) it looks like you're the stupid, crazy, troll.... How much do you get paid?

[valhala56]

To me this is all "Pick your Poison". An Academic arguement about what is going to kill Civilization first, Climate Change? Peak Oil? Global Thermonuclear War? Pandemics? Economic collapse. LOL we are so fucked and mostly due to our own selfish nearsighted ways. I give us 5 years before the ELE is finished with this sad experiment in sentince.

[408Magenta]

Quebec, yes, they get $8 billion annually from the rest of Canada to remain in confederation. I wish they would pay their carbon markets themselves and not go through this show that they spew. It's laughable.

[Ou8y2k2]

1. Land surface temp has increased.

2. Ocean surface temp has increased based on satellites and another system.

3. Too much CO2, water vapor, methane and a several other gases warm the earth in different ratios.

4. Richard Muller, the Koch-funded climate skeptic, found that his model matched IPCC.

5. Read the IPCC. Don't watch The Inconvenient Truth.

If we're too stupid to see the obvious, we may perish before our lame politicians start @fuzzjunky's nuclear war. Good day!

[chocomalk]

Whether or not climate change is man made or not, a problem or not, the official response is completely irrational and greed based.

There is no tax scheme that can't be thrust onto the shoulders of others to bear the costs. As usual, people will suffer, the rich will prosper and any possible benefit to the environment will be offset by human misery.

Without an all out push towards alternative energies on a worldwide basis, the rhetoric is empty and meaningless.

[danmanjones]

The UN gets "Climate Funds" and redistributes it to 3rd world countries. We get global socialism while the worst pollution continues to escalate. All this while the science isn't settled.

[nivendyer]

Must say im happy with this as the whole carbon credit, climate change issue is a huge hoax whos only aim is to tax and control the developed world while preventing 3rd world countries from developing. quicker this whole thing dies the better. Im all for clean air and no pollution.

CO2 IS NOT A POLLUTANT!!!

[Swidhelm]

@nivendyer CO2 contributes to absorption and emission of solar infrared, which is the greenhouse effect. Glacial core samples have shown that CO2 has varied between 180 ppm -- 270 ppm, before the industrial revolution. Now it is 313 ppm. What would you derive from that?

[nivendyer]

@Swidhelm Yes i agree with all you say except that it if you look at the graphs of CO2 versus earth temperature over the past 100,000 years. the rise in CO2 lags behing the temperature increase by @800 years. Temp Drives CO2 ! CO2 has been much greater than 330 ppm in the past and caused no problem to the earth in fact it was very productive for the plant and animal life. Water vapour makes up a much greater part of the atmosphere then Co2 and is a more powerful greenhouse gas. Ban H20, no way

[valhala56]

@nivendyer That is a reply a lawyer would give, twist and confuse the science. The Science is quite clear, the earth is heating up and heating up fast. Now I am 1000% against the carbon credits, I know it won't do anything to mitigate climate change and will only be another casino for the super rich at our expense. However the people of earth shoulda coulda switched to alternative energy decades ago. To late now, I hope you don't live in the coast buddy cause you may be under water in the future

[nivendyer]

@valhala56 I agree no pollution, Co2 is not a pollutant, denying 3rd world from fossil fuels condemns millions to death and starvation. Energy is nothing to do with the people on earth. they have never had a say in it. It is controlled by the elite and enforced by their armies. the people on earth need to rise up and put an end to it. Every planet in the solar system is heating up at the moment. ITS THE SUN and always has been that controls global temperature. no polluters on mars!

[valhala56]

@nivendyer First of all you are not understanding me. I am not for taking energy from the "Brown people" that we are doing anyway now, ie Iraq, Iran, Libyia. How can I put this? Ok, We the US & the people of the earth are energy crack addicts, we have to have it. Even though this liquid fuel is killing us, we like a crack addict will keep using it till the Nukes start lighting up cities & military bases & Oil fields. We is FUCKED. Pick your poison friend, economic collapse? Peak Oil ect-fucked.

[nivendyer]

@valhala56 Its not the fuel thats killing us ITS HUMAN GREED. yes it is all gonna collapse soon just like the climate change scam/distraction. Its amazing the number of comments that the climate change issue generates but when it comes to the real shit ie whats really hapnin War, Global Financial Fraud, no one gives a toss. When you look at everything else that is happening who in their right mind would believe what they tell us about climate change. One huge lie designed to control the sheeple

[valhala56]

@nivendyer I disagree with you on the Climate change but totaly agree with on the rest and I totaly believe Carbon Credits et al is just another scam they "PTB" want to bleed us with. Like I said this is Pick your Poison time, What's gonna kill us first? Global Economic Collapse, Police State Concentration Camps, Genocide from any number of ways, Peak Oil, Nuclear War, Pandemics, or Climate change. When you dead your dead so does it matter if it is a bullet or knife?

[nivendyer]

@valhala56 You said it I would much rather die on a warm beach in the sun with some good waves for surfing up the high street as the sea level rises ( not that its going to).

Climate change is the least of our worries. We should commit our energies to sorting out the real problems that you just mentioned. Ufortunately the CC issue is a huge distraction from the real issues. The way things are going its much more likely to be a bullet or a knife or a Virus released into the population.

[michalchik]

@valhala56 It worked with acid rain. Google "captrade" and "acid rain" it is a way to get the same reductions but do them in a way that minimizes the economic damage.

[michalchik]

@valhala56 Further, the derivative market can be chained by forcing the trades only between producers of CO2 currently paying into the system because of their emissions.

[valhala56]

@michalchik What? Are you frigging kidding me? The deriviaties market? That is already nothing but a ponzi bomb that is on the verge of taking down the world economy. Get the fuck out here with something that like Kyoto is proven to be a failure and only makes a few billionares even richer.

No the answer is not some Finacial Ponzi scheme to solve this problem. The ONLY answer is Science. And if Science can't do it, well get yourself a Jaque Costeau wetsuit and a copy of Water World. LOL

[michalchik]

@valhala56 Like I said, it worked before very successfully. The derivatives market does not turn into a ponzi scheme so long as people outside the primary producers are kept out. If you can't sell any more than you cut from your emissions and you can't buy anymore than what you need, the price of the derivative is chained to real world production and you don't get speculative bubbles. There are good ways and bad ways of running these markets.

[valhala56]

@michalchik Buddy you may be up on Climate Science but I give you a 0 on the Derivatives market. The current Derivaties Market is said to be One Quadrillion dollars. More then the World GDP of 10 earths!

And as far as limiting who is and is not in a Carbon Trading Market, well maybe you haven't noticed but Corruption in Financial markets is now mainstream. Ha ever heard of MF Global?

What is wrong putting money into new alternative technologies? Why you got a hardon for Derivatives?

[michalchik]

@valhala56 This will actually drive money into alternative energy because alternative energy producers will be subsidized by polluters based on how clean and productive their technology is. I am well aware of what happens when you allow uncontrolled derivatives trading and I am not advocating that kind of suicidal mess. i am talking about a closed cap a trade system between energy producers. You produce energy you can sell carbon credits you produce CO2 you have to buy or stop.

[valhala56]

@michalchik Yeah the very same way Banks were supposed to lend to small business and families AFTER they got Goverment bailouts. As GW Bush quoted, 'Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again!"

Now tell me, this video says Kyoto is a failure, didn't you watch the damn vid?

Gambling as a way to pay for anything rarely works out. Look at Goverment lotteries.

No the only alterntive is a World Crash Energy Program. Anything short of that is doomed to failure.

[valhala56]

@michalchik Something tells me you must be a Bond/Dervivatives Trader to have such a passion for what amounts to another scam for Billionare Insiders to milk the system for more money throwing a few bucks into a few solar panel factories and some charities for flood victims.

[valhala56]

@michal Sorry but unfortunely people have lost faith and credibility with any sort of Financial market system to solve anything. The world's Financial system is imploding now and your answer is to create another Trading system that will only attract the most corrupt to cash in on. Plus I really see how pushing paper around will do anything.

To me besides being perfect for Financial scam artists it seems an easy way to think that you are doing something when in reality you are deluding yourself.

[Swidhelm]

@nivendyer Yes, prior to 800,000 years ago. It's not that the planet will be destroyed, it's that we likely as a species will not be able to adapt to the temperature increase, the increased intensity of storms, etc. The earth used to be much hotter. Hell at one point the atmosphere was so oxygen rich, lightening strikes would cause fires. But it's a question of whether or not we can live in the climate to come.

[nivendyer]

@Swidhelm Climate to come is gonna be one or two degrees hotter at most. Humans can live quite happily in extreme temperatures., Bedouins and Eskimos are a classic. Life is very adaptable to much greater changes than any increase in temp will cause. The medievil warm period was a boom time for the human population. people quite happily survived the mini ice age. How do you get on in a hotter country. I'll bet you feel better for being warmer. YOU ARE BEING LIED TO!

[formerutuber]

@nivendyer bedouins and eschimos live in huts. we live in cities.and many of our cities are on the coast.it'll be the end of modern society as we know it.

[nivendyer]

@formerutuber Yea like Al Gore is worried about being on the coast when he buys two big new mansions on the coast. Dont hold your breath we are a long way away from any rise in sea level. Have yourself a look at the latest sea ice observations (not models) ITS GROWING AND GETTING THICKER NOT MELTING.

[valhala56]

@nivendyer It is amazing like you said the number of comments this issue garners. Me Personaly I've pretty much given up arguing Climate Change, Peak Oil, Economic collapse, Millitarism. I'm pretty much focusing on prepping myself. I think we are past the tipping point and headed to a very dark time. People can wish upon a star or a Carbon Credit it doesn't matter mankind has trashed the planet is warlike and will probaly snuff Civilization out because of selfishness and shortsightedness.

CYA>

[nivendyer]

@valhala56 Me too I dont know why I even bothered to comment today. I promised myself the last time after receiving some really vicious comments that I was finished commenting. TIME WILL TELL AND THOSE WHO ARE PREPARED WILL PREVAIL.

Peace and love.

[valhala56]

@nivendyer Yep I agree, have a Merry Christmas.

[Swidhelm]

@nivendyer We aren't talking just tropical temperatures, we are talking much warmer than that. And me personally? I hate the heat. Summer, even up here in Canada, is rough for me. I deal with the cold better. But that's neither here nor there. And yes we are being lied to--by oil companies who's revenue is threatened by the environmental movement.

[nivendyer]

@Swidhelm You need to stop reading Aesops fables or porkys pies! where do you get your info. are you still in first grade by any chance. I am obviously wasting my time here dont expect another reply.

[Swidhelm]

@nivendyer Aesop didn't have access to modern scientific equipment, nor did he ever examine ice core samples, nor would he have known what CO2, CH4, N2O, or O3 is, let alone understand the role each play in our atmosphere. You don't think that the amount of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere in 2008 (2.9 Gt) alone won't have adverse consequences? You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

[shiningirisheyes]

@Swidhelm 2008 (2.9 Gt) big scary numbers 2 blind us with science wont work. The daily amount the human race carbonizes the atmosphere is ~1/650,000,000 or it would take 650,000,000/21 days to carbonize all the atmosphere ball park more than 300,000 years. Nature presently carbonizes ten times faster .So we still got more than ~30,000 years to go .The world had ~10 times more CO2 in the history & survived that .CO2 heating is minor heating agent less than 6% compared to H20 which is ~94%

[michalchik]

@nivendyer That is because CO2 works as an amplifier normally. It can be a cause too. As CO2 drives the temp up it will increase atm H2O also. Every climate scientist in the world wants greenhouse gases in the atmosphere because the earth would be 17 degrees colder without them. They don't want too much. Finally the sun was dimmer in the past because it fusion was only occurring in the core. The sun expands as it gets colder so the planet needs less greenhouse gas now.

[valhala56]

@michalchik This battle is already lost. Most people are Climate Change deniers, or just plain ignorant eventhough the effects of Global Climate change is now, Pole ice melt, Methane Plumes, huger ice shelfs in the antartic breaking off. I mean if you can't be convinced of Satellite photos of the Pole being much smaller year after year then nothing will convince you.

So coming to a solution, Like a alcoholic 1st you gotta admitt there is a problem & they are still in the denial stage.

[PoliceViolence]

@valhala56 Go ahead and set an example then. Stop breathing.

[valhala56]

@PoliceViolence How about you set the "example" the world will be a much better place.

[michalchik]

@valhala56 Sigh, we are going to get reamed up the ass for our ignorance and arrogance but what we do now will affect how bad it will be. it is not an all or nothing situation.

[valhala56]

@michalchik I can see you are not a denier, but the video admitts Kyoto was a failure. What makes you think some kind of Carbon Swapping deal would do anything? All it does is create another Casino. Personaly I would rather see the money put into an alternative energy program and other carbon mitigation. I really do not see how anything to do with capital markets and mans inherant greed will do one iota in mitigating our path to Venus ie Greenhouse effect.

[shiningirisheyes]

@michalchik Yeah when fake science doesn't work blame the religion they are deniers .Well I recall pre 1974 when the AGW Holdrens were telling us we were doomed to the ice age.Then they dreamed up club of Rome AGW and the rest was history as this new scam rolled in. At first I believed this AGW scam modern science etc. but later enough serious scientists exposed it was a lie & worse even a Gaia religion sponsored by the UN. All religions are not science based it believers & deniers.

[michalchik]

@shiningirisheyes That is pure bullshit cooked up by the same people that told you that tobacco and leaded gasoline are harmless. SCIENTISTS NEVER CLAIMED WE WE'RE IN DANGER OF AN ICEAGE.Stop believing everything you are told. Can you name the research articles or congressional testimony about an ice age? I can show you hundreds about warming. And no you don't have serious scientists denying AGCC, you have corporate shills and lunatic fringe.

[shiningirisheyes]

@michalchik Thanks for stating the truth that most all scientists are whores for sale to the highest bidder to the AGW will cook our goose cause or tobacco is good for us whatever cause pays the highest. The majority of scientists who state AGW is a fake pseudo science get zero money for their opinion and would have no sponsors to say this.The oil companies want CO2 AGW as oil makes per Kw less CO2 than coal so they can wipe out cheaper coal competition. Tax your breathing out CO2?

[michalchik]

@shiningirisheyes Name 3 climatologists that deny global warming and don't get paid by fossil fuel companies. i bet you can't name one. I can name dozens of climatologists that do. You still haven't named the scientific articles that state we were heading into an ice age. Plus hundreds of long established scientific societies, Can you name one? You have turned yourself into a sock puppet for big corporate propaganda, How does that giant oily hand feel up you ass?

[watercup123456]

@shiningirisheyes Right wingers were the ones talking about an ice age in 74, not scientists.

Scientists were talking about anthropogenic global warming in 74, and have been for over 100 years.

Oh you right wing liberal liars and your lies :-D

[shiningirisheyes]

@watercup123456 Well I was around pre 74 and interested in the climate subject then.The top Universities and documentaries and media hyped the Ice age as the big risk.There was a small group in the dark dank basements of the Universities who talked of the AGW issue, After club of Rome 73 the roles were reversed and Ice agers in Universities were cast down as out of fashion scientists & replaced with AGW scientists to promote the new found fake science AGW will cook our goose.

[watercup123456]

@shiningirisheyes Everything you say is nonsense and lies.

Read books. And I mean READ them!

[watercup123456]

@nivendyer CO2 is a poisonous gas that will kill you, animals, and plants in high concentrations.

CO2 concentrations being higher MILLIONS of years ago has NOTHING to do with today; the plants and animals (ie. US and everything else) on earth has evolved to survive in an atmosphere of between about 200-300ppm CO2. We're up to 380-480 now because of humans. Thats REALLY fucking bad.

Fossil fuel CO2 is a HUGE pollutant.

[nivendyer]

@watercup123456 ACCORDING TO WHO??? Wake up and realise when you are being lied to and shafted by the elite.

[watercup123456]

@nivendyer ACCORDING TO ME YOU FUCKING MORON

OMFG what a fucking loon :-D

[nivendyer]

@watercup123456 ONE DAY YOU WILL WAKE UP AND REALISE THAT THE LARGE COCK OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER BRIGADE BEHIND THE AGW SCAM IS FIRMLY PLANTED IN YOUR BUTT. BUT DONT WORRY THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF ICE AROUND TO COOL IT DOWN....HAVE A NICE CHRISTMAS AND REMEMBER DONT COOK THE GOOSE TOO LONG AS IT SURE WILL INCREASE YOUR CARBON FOOTPRINT AND CAUSE THE WORLD TEMPERATURE TO RISE...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[watercup123456]

@nivendyer Yeah K psycho :-D

[nivendyer]

@watercup123456 You really don't know what you are talking about. Only regurgitating what you have been fed by the AGW/ climate change Mafia. No proof that its because of humans. Has been much higher when humans didnt nexist due to natural processes and cycles. Natural processes produce much more than humans. Volcanic eruptions alone produce more CO2 than humans each year. You gonna tax every country with a volcano??? Wake up to the lies..........

[Kropotkin2000]

@nivendyer Volcanic eruptions do not produce more CO2 than humans (it's about 1% of human produced emissions). So yeah, wake up to the lies.

[watercup123456]

@nivendyer So scientists are a mafia now?

What kind of fucking drugs are you on :-D

AGW is a PROVEN FACT you fucking moron.

1+1=2. Humans make CO2 and CO2 warms the atmosphere. DONE you LOSE :-D

Natural processes do not produce more CO2 than humans.

Volcanoes DO NOT produce more CO2 than humans. Volcanoes LOWER the temperature.

YOU ARE A LIAR ROFL AHAHAHAHA RAPED YOU WITH FACTS LOSER ;-D

[shiningirisheyes]

@watercup123456 CO2 warming is only ~6% of the AGW gasses that warm the earth.H2O is ~94% of the AGW gas and it traps most of the heat in the first 30ft of the surface of earth. CO2 at 250PPM traps ~99% of all trappable CO2 heat,350PPM traps ~99.5% of all trappable heat.Even if we doubled CO2 to 750PPM we might get ~99.7% . Its similar to you put 4 blankets on your bed over 2 blankets you don't get twice as hot, Same for CO2 its AGW power diminishes to near nada after 250PPM

[watercup123456]

@shiningirisheyes Math and physics are NOT your strong points?

That, and reiterating facts ;-D

[shiningirisheyes]

@watercup123456 Volcano's produce vast amounts of both dust and CO2.The dust creates cool while its suspended in the upper atmosphere but as the dust falls down to earth this cooling stops.The CO2 amounts are very large compared to humans activity's we don't control these emissions.The total of all CO2 natural emissions is more than 10 times the humans emissions and we don't control those

Look up the total gas oil coal human emissions in giga tons annual.Its 1/10 of all CO2 P/A

[watercup123456]

@shiningirisheyes Humans emit more CO2 than ALL volcanoes combined every year.

Volcanoes COOL the earth, not warm it up.

Just stop lying. You are pathetic ;-D

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

@nivendyer I will wager you everything I own that you will not spend 24 hours in a room with 50% CO2. Care to wager?

[akkonburike]

@bamboo4tameshigiri Uhmm, can we all work together and thumb up my last comment on the previous page? ^.^

Our comment states: It is too late to cut carbon emission [sic] sufficiently. Our statement IS based on science -- flavored with a DROP of "real politik" ^.^

Thanks a butch.

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

@akkonburike No.

[nivendyer]

@bamboo4tameshigiri Well now you are just being silly, the air we breathe is less than 0.4%CO2 so that makes it a long way off from %50. Being in a room with %50 percent Oxygen would also be dangerous. CO2 emissions would have to be phenomenal to reach even 1%. we talk about CO2 in ppm (parts per million) thats just 3rd grade Science

[MustacheVerra]

The greatest lie ever told. And the chance that you will wake up people on the left is so slime we might as well give up. The indoctrination is just too deep. Decades of green peace, smoking chemine, oil spill images etc and everybody in convinced the planet is going to die. They are falling into this world government trap and taking us with them. People just cant understand there are forces out there who use deception, think long therms & work very slowly. Of course, they'll run this government

[Swidhelm]

@MustacheVerra It's hard to "wake up" people when the data suggests that climate change is very real. Yeah, there are lots of people out there that use deception. Like multimillionaire oil barons who don't want their revenue taken away--Koch brothers come to mind. And since governments, especially the Us government is a subsidiary of corporate America . . . money talks.

[michalchik]

@MustacheVerra I wasn't indoctrinated. I aced my courses in physics and chemistry and then I read the actual scientific literature. The physics of global warming is based on well established science and it is not only possible it is inevitable given what we know. The main source of propaganda is coming from those people who have billions of dollars at stake in keeping us dependent on their products.

[watercup123456]

@MustacheVerra How many degrees in science do you have?

Right, zero.

Now shut the fuck up and stop lying.

What a fucking loon.

[fuzzjunky]

i used to worry about this stuff alot, but i realised we'll get wiped out by military idiots way before any of this matters

[valhala56]

Ha ha this guy is funny, the "keep the Oil in the ground" Movement going against the "Drill baby drill" gang. Who do you think is going to win? Who do you think is going to quit driving their car, or eating cheap Petro based food, or quit using all they petro based products. The reality is we is fucked. Too many people "7 billion" on a planet who want food, cars, cheap products and are willing to fight with all kinds of weapons to get it.

[valhala56]

You have a Scientific problem ie climate change and you think Economist can solve what is basicaly a Scientific problem? I know Economics is classified as a Science, it is a soft social science as opposed to hard science like Physics,chemistry ect. This was doomed to failure. What the hell do economists know about earth Sciences? These Politicians are a joke and they hold no solutions either.

[Swidhelm]

@valhala56 That's because those politicians are in the pockets of big business, especially the oil companies--hence the tax payer provided oil subsidies. Like oil companies need subsidies. :P Which is why they buy some scientists who stir the pot, claiming, contrary to the evidence, that global warming isn't happening.

[valhala56]

@Swidhelm That is part of the problem but I have found the Zeigeist movement has better more sustainable answers which is that these "Climate Change" is technical problems not Political. Climate Change is not R or D. Co2 doesn't care whether you are liberal or Conservative.

Then answer lies in the people who technical know how to deal with the problem.

Or put another way, would you have a Politician fix a broken tv or computer or fix your transmission? they are clueless and infffective.

[Swidhelm]

@valhala56 Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I was just expanding on the problem of politicians that you stated. That's all.

[valhala56]

@Swidhelm I know and I was putting my 2 cents on ZM. I think ZM is the answer the world needs now however 99.9999999999% never heard of it, .05 who have think it is communism reduxe and the last .01% of the Elites will never let the wealth and power slip out of their hands even if it means saving Civilization.

[FREEsilverGiveaway]

Great video!

@Right here@

[ryanpomy]

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