Mtoto Unfuwain

[LOBBYTHEROBBER]

Sad to read that he's died.

My favourite, ever.....!

[sleeplessinsale]

Good race, very good horse. I never forget how impressively Almaarad swept to the front in the Hardwicke at Royal Ascot prior to this race, and Michael Roberts had him down as a big danger, hence tracked him for the first mile+. In fact it was remembering how Almaarad made this jump in class without disgracing himself that made me have an even stronger fancy for Harbinger in the King George. Sorry to have suddenly side-tracked this thread! I loved Mtoto by the way too, quirks and all.

[SeaJack999]

the horse that won mtoto is my horse's great grandad (Y).x

[frankschlanker]

I dont think this was Willie Carsons finest hour.More use of Unfuwains stamina should have been made.

[marcusallcock]

is it rare for the first 3 home in the king george to then finish in the first 4 home in the arc??

[chazswaz87]

thats my dad on the left at the very start of the video and at the end walking round mtoto , i think

[21shergar]

4-1! Utterly unbelieveable for a horse who, with hindsight, was so far ahead of everything else in this field - and on ground that didn't suit.

Read lower down for a most cheering bookie-beating tale. Until the Arc!

[tukoramerez]

Mill Reef was a great horse and i`m not saying Mtoto was the greatest, I just believe Mtoto had style and courage and a touch of class that in his era stood out,Horses don`t have to be the very best to be admired,surely it`s about entertainment and what we as spectaitors remember in great races.

[sleeplessinsale]

@tukoramerez spot on, mate!

[tukoramerez]

All these horses were stars, but not many could act on any ground to the degree of MTOTO and to me that made him a cut above,,the fact MTOTO raced at all was a miracle considering the problems with his hooves but this prince was born to be a king and even if he wasn`t as good as other great champions he certainly new how to entertain and deserves his crown for his courage and breath taking victories,,

[Newworldman66]

Mill Reef must rate as the best any ground horse.

[Kelt1c71]

Mtoto the best ever over 10 furlongs ? You're having a laugh.

Dubai Millennium would have run him dizzy over that distance, as would Brigadier Gerard.

[21shergar]

My face is straight.

[terbine13]

and you don't hear me laughing! :-|

[LOBBYTHEROBBER]

no way, best ever over 10f Mtoto! Awesome turn of foot

[december2364]

I'd go along with the Brigadier - but Dubai Millenium?

[MEECHIO]

The Brigadier I agree, but Dubai Millennium is the most overrated horse of the last twenty years. How many proven Group 1 performers did he beat during his career, not many I can assure you of that. Check the stats, Sendawar was probably the best but he wouldn't of got in the same parish as Mtoto let alone the Brigadier!

[LOBBYTHEROBBER]

my favourite horse, ever, mtoto. class act and what a price! i was at a wedding on this day and couldn't believe the sp. also how enjoyable to read posts from others who remember those days and the other horses so well. doyoun was a substandard guineas winner and kayhasi won a poor derby from glacial storm. but mtoto who won the eclipse again @ 6/4 from 33s poke shady heights was a true superstar. at the year's end,unbelievably, tony bin was rated the same as mtoto after his lucky win in arc

[21shergar]

I have a special place in my heart for Mtoto, Lobby. To my mind he will always be underrated. His Arc defeat leaves me gutted each time I watch it. For turn of foot he was right up there with the best. True brilliance. Over 10, the best ever.

[sleeplessinsale]

@21shergar same here, except for best ever over 10f, but yeah special place in my heart definitely. Almaarad had booked his ticket for this race by winning the Hardwicke Stakes at Royal Ascot over C&D in almost a carbon copy of Mtoto's impressive run here.

[marcusallcock]

we all know UNFUWAIN was a mudlark, so why did carson have him under the trees, where he traditionally took horses lookin for better going on soft ground???he should have been at the front dictating the pace on the going he likes.after all he had just won the newmarket trial race by 15lengths in the mud!!!strange

[terbine13]

Mtoto certainly blitzed subsequent Arc winner Tony Bin here which IMO shows that he was unlucky not to confirm his superiority at Longchamps

[21shergar]

I agree entirely, terbs. The going didn't suit, as evidenced by his drift in the betting in the run to the race, but he still walloped them. True class on any going.

[terbine13]

Mtoto out to 4-1? what were they thinking? If only they had known!!

[21shergar]

Extraordinary price!

Never been a big gambler myself, terbs...but that day a friend of mine was so certain of Mtoto's quality that for every quarter point, and then half point, he drifted in the betting he stepped up to the counter with another betting slip and another sheaf of notes. He clearly knew for certain what so many doubted. I think he had to purchase a larger wallet to collect his return from that rarest of beasts: a 15 minute deposit account with 400% interest guaranteed.

[terbine13]

Hooray!!

[21shergar]

My friend then lost it all on Arc day!

[terbine13]

Boo!!

[december2364]

That's the thing about the Arc isn't it. Over the years its condemned many a betting slip pencilled in with a red hot favourite or a moral certainty on it to the bin.

[marcusallcock]

I loved UNFUWAIN on soft going he would have carried these.I dont think Willie rode his best race in the KG.I believe MTOTO had a quicker turn of foot than Dancing Brave.But once the Brave got going he would have caught and past MTOTO.

[21shergar]

Maybe over 12, but not over 10!

[terbine13]

I think Dancing Brave would have caught the Monster at 12 furlongs in a 10 furlong race!! at 12 furlongs the 'Brave could have caught him near the line but he would have to be on song!

[Newworldman66]

Dancing Brave had a quicker turn of foot than champion sprinter Green Desert and showed blistering acceleration over 8, 10 and 12f races whereas Mtoto struggled to pass a one paced 12f front runner in Reference Point over his supposed optimum trip of 10f. If he was that quick he'd have flown past RP and away from Tryptich but he couldn't. There are no form lines to suggest Mtoto could have beat DB over any trip or any sectional time to suggest he could outsprint him either.

[21shergar]

Intersting point of view, MWM. We need a time machine for conclusive evidence, but I do think you underestimate both RP and Tryptich. RP may have had one pace, but it was a fast one, as his racing record shows.

Had Mtoto got up on the line in the Arc, his name would be held in yet higher esteem, but as happened to the great DB at Epsom, the best horse did not win on the day.

[Newworldman66]

I certainly don't underestimate either RP or Tryptich, they were both very good horses but neither was great. Mtoto would rate higher than both of them but below DB. Mtoto's best performances were over 12f not 10f i.e. his KG win and Arc 2nd, a race he should have won.

[21shergar]

Truth is, NWM, the Monster was just superb over both distances - as, of course, was the sensational Dancing Brave.

Totally agree with you about the 1988 Arc.

[Newworldman66]

Mtoto's highest ratings came over 12f not 10f, his KG win being his most impressive performance, in my opinion. Although he won many 10f races his wins tended to be narrow. That suggests he was a determined and tenacious horse over 10f rather than great and also suggests he actually needed further.

[dessiesdoneit]

these great horses are all before my time but to be fair struggling to pass reference point isnt exactly bad

[Newworldman66]

You're right, it's not exactly bad but it strongly suggests that Mtoto's turn of foot wasn't as swift as some contributors on here would have you believe.

[21shergar]

If I didn't know better, NWM, I'd think you didn't like Mtoto. Fair enough, though; we're all entitled to our opinion. For me Mtoto was never all about turn of foot, although I argue strongly that he possessed noteworthy acceleration. What raises him to brilliance is the tenacity he shows when under duress. It is the combination of velocity increase and persistence that raises him so high in my esteem.

Right, I'm off now to try to remove these permanently affixed Mtoto-coloured spectacles.

[Newworldman66]

Quite the opposite, Mtoto was a star performer in arguably flat racings best decade for depth of quality. I just think his turn of foot was less rapid than is claimed, particularly over 10f where most of his wins were narrow and workman like rather than spectacular. He was way more impressive over 12f, in his KG win and in the Arc he would have won if Roberts hadn't given him a Jamie Spencer type ride.

[dessiesdoneit]

Theres probably no form lines that suggest any horse could have beat DB, even with the hype of Sea the Stars this year i know too many people who still say Dancing Brave is the best theyve seen and I wouldnt argue

[bigttim1]

@dessiesdoneit r I agree.  I have seen some great horses in the last 30yrs or so that i've been watching horse racing but non comes close to The Brave. The turn of foot that horse had was breathtaking.

[frankschlanker]

AGREED

[21shergar]

Just to clarify, that's Mtoto unstoppable over 1m2f. I was an Unfuwain fan, but Mtoto takes that step that precious few do - from excellence to sublimity.

[december2364]

I was shocked for days after he defeated Reference Point in the Eclipse - but I still say that 10 furlongs was just to sharp for RP and he would almost certainly have gained revenge in the King George that year if Mtoto had been running. But I'll agree with you that not much would have beaten Mtoto over 10 furlongs. As for Unfuwain, he never really fulfilled his early promise, did he.

[Iomarca]

Roberts was a great jockey, and underrated.

[torontoderek]

But that was some animal, that Mtoto. He probably to this day is the horse I would say had the greatest turn of foot I have seen over middle distances and should have won the Arc with a better ride and a bit of luck! Pity he wasn't patronised at Stud by breeders with top class broodmares. Mind you, he did sire a Derby winner in Shaamit!!

[21shergar]

No kidding, torontoderek. Mtoto was a brilliant "wet sail" merchant. He and Dancing Brave had the best turns of foot I've ever seen in mile and half horses. I had a friend who on King George day kept backing Mtoto as his price drifted in the softening going. I was skeptical, but he knew what the rest of us were about to discover: the true class of this late maturing maestro.

[RobinCarmody]

Good grief, two horses whose owners were clearly prog fans (Soft Machine obv, but Moon Madness was an album by Camel).

[21shergar]

And what entertainment Moon Madness provided us with during his career.

[december2364]

I was at a wedding the day of his St Leger and me and a couple of the other guests popped out to the bookies to put on a bet. Unfortunately I changed my bet to Celestial Storm at the last minute. Spoiled the rest of the reception for me.

[21shergar]

Changing your bet at the last minute: Absolute (Moon) Madness.