The Beast of Revelation (14 of 25) Trampling of Jerusalem?

[joroma77]

Berith-ish kingdom from Arthur up to around 1600-1700, was it the millennial reign under Christ? Has the extent of the dark ages been grossly exaggerated, by up to 600 years? Was Satan released shortly after the King James Bible was published? Is the population explosion the 2nd resurrection? Is Satan currently deceiving the nations worldwide? This is one tough puzzle!

[Parture]

There is no killing of people in the first half of the Tribulation, not even in the 5th trumpet of the Tribulation which takes place for 5 months after the middle of the Tribulation.

[Dabayare]

Have you guys ever wondered this "Temple" to have been nothing but a mud hut. Why give so much credit to people who produced nothing of architectural significance? If they claim to have built the Pyramids, why is there no pyramids near were Jewish people are known to have lived?

[lordrothchild21]

where do we fit in now. And what about eternity and how will we live. Does the bible speak of these things

[1stResurrection]

The "Holy Place" and the "Holy City" are two distinct places. The Holy Place is not the Holy City. Revelation 11 does not say "the Holy Place", it says the "Holy City". Therefore, you cannot just insert the "Holy Place" to make your point. The Scripture says "and the HOLY CITY shall they tread under foot forty and two months" (Rev. 11:2). The whordoms of Israel and Judah were begotten from the house of Ahab (2 Chron. 21:12-13). Ahab serve Baal (2 Chr 21:3). There is a chronology.

[jcr4runner]

The 'holy city" is also called the "great city." It is also called Babylon, Sodom and Egypt. And the place where their Lord was crucified. This is Jerusalem.

[1stResurrection]

Was not our Lord crucified outside the gates of the city?

[jcr4runner]

1st Resurrection: You say that Jerusalem in the book is the holy city (not a harlot) in the far off future. How do you interpret the following?

Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand (Rev. 22:10).

[1stResurrection]

No, I did not say that Jerusalem was one or the other. I was commenting on what you said vs what the Scripture says.

[jcr4runner]

Scripture says repeatedly the time is near, meaning the first century.

[1stResurrection]

In your presentation you proposed that Jerusalem was the "MOTHER OF HARLOTS" that sat upon the beast, whereas Revelation 11 presents Jerusalem as the "Holy City". Jerusalem CANNOT be both the "Mother of all harlots" and the "Holy City" at the same time. In 70 AD Jerusalem was either the "Mother of all harlots" or the "Holy City". If it was the Mother of harlots, as you proposed, then Revelation 11 speaks of another time.

[jcr4runner]

I disagree. The Temple contains the holy place and the very presence of God.

Yet Israel, Judah and Jerusalem are likened to a harlot several times in the Old Testament as well. It can be both at once, just as God's people Israel were called a holy people a chosen nation, yet they played the harlot after false gods.

[jcr4runner]

It's interesting too that Jerusalem was trampled underfoot for EXACTLY 42 months from Spring of 67 to the Fall of 70.

People want to ignore that and concoct a future fulfillment.

God's Word is amazing in all the places where it has been supernaturally fulfilled.

Why do you resist that glorious testimony?

[1stResurrection]

When God made a promise to Abraham regarding his seed, wouldn't your reasoning conclude that it was fulfilled in Isaac? Yet the promise was ultimately speaking of "the seed" Jesus Christ who would subsequently reproduce a multitude which no man could number. The fact that Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah according to the promise of God did not negate the fact that God had a greater fulfillment in mind nearly 2000 years later when Christ was born and 4000+ years at the first resurrection.

[jcr4runner]

God gave specific time parameters to John -- "the time is near."

Jesus gave them -- "THIS generation shall not pass away."

But to Abraham, God gave the promise to "a thousand generations" -- not just to Isaac.

So that is the difference -- the time indicators and the audience relevance.

[1stResurrection]

When God spoke to Abraham of his seed, the relevant audience was Abraham and later Sarah. Their first hope of fulfillment was Isaac. Abraham's extened hope was Israel and ultimate hope was Christ (Gal. 3:16). Many levels. "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant." I Chr 16:15-17

[jcr4runner]

So do you agree that this covenant has been fulfilled literally?

[1stResurrection]

The ultimate fulfillment is when the seed of Christ is as inumberable as the sand of the sea and as the stars of heaven. My point though was that the prophecy to Abraham was "audience relevant" but it hass been fulfilled on several levels and is still being fulfilled unto the completion of the mystery of Christ. OBTH: I really appreciate your scholarship. Although I'm poking and probing, I mean no disrespect. I'm only searching for truth. If it's under one of these rocks, I'll find it. Thanks.

[jcr4runner]

A "thousand generations" is 40,000 years.

If this is a literal "thousand generations," the "millennium" cannot be a literal 100 years, nor can "this generation" in Mt. 24 refer to 1948.

What do you make of the following, does it occur prior to Christ's return or after?

"No longer will there be ... an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred. And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred will be thought accursed."

- Isaiah 65:20

[1stResurrection]

I'm not convinced that 1948 is connected to Mt. 24. As to the prophecy of Isaiah 65, I would have to say since the context is the new heavens and the new earth vs 20 would have to speak of a time after the return of Christ after the first resurrection when the saints will pragmatically rule the earth as kings and priests under Jesus Christ the eternal king/priest after the order of Melchisedec. This view does not prevent progress towards that end, but ultimately the kingdom is Christ's not man's

[1stResurrection]

So, why was the temple, the altar and the worshippers measured and the court not measured if they all were coming to the same fate?

[jcr4runner]

It's hard to explain much of Revelation 11 if the Temple is not still standing.

[gareof]

The Herodian Temple was destroyed by General Titus in 70 AD - BEFORE John wrote the Book of Revelation - The Temple of Rev. 11 is the REBUILT temple & the trampling is what occurs in the 31/2 years after anti-christ stands in the Holy of Holies demanding to be worshipped as God (abomination of Mat.24 & Dan)- by claiming that God is finished with Israel & the Church is now taking her place you are setting believers up to accept the teachings of anti-christ - who will come as a great peace-maker

[jcr4runner]

See our YouTube video on this: "The Beast of Revelation (18 of 25) Late Date vs. Early Date?"

Revelation was written as a letter to the seven churches when John was imprisoned during Nero's persecutions between 64 to 66 AD.

There are several time indicators within the book itself that confirm this date which would make no sense if it was written later.

Watch the video.

Question: If the angel tells John to measure the Temple (even in a vision) how would the immediate audience understand that?

[gareof]

Rev was written about 96 AD...The "Key" to understanding Rev is found in chap 1:19 "write what YOU HAVE SEEN (viz of Christ in ch 1) - things which ARE (time of John ch 2&3 church age) things AFTER THIS. (ch 4 - 22) My Bible school 74 - 79 was evangelical, Chuck Smith, Missler,Wolvoord,Erwin...I spent 6 yrs as an evangelist, prison chaplain, music min '74 to '81 been Pastor/Teacher since 1982. I encourage Christians to study for themselves...Acts 17:11 - That's what I encourage my students to do

[Saiaton]

Exactly: it had all happened when John wrote it pretending it to prophesy what would happen. There's no need to invent spurious 'rebuilt temples', it's just a sort of historical novel

[gareof]

Post millinialists (those who believe the church will go through the great tribulation) always go back to Roman history & decide that the church has taken the place of Israel - but look at Romans 9 and 11 you'll find that God is NOT finished with Israel - and by the way "this generation" is the generation that sees the budding of the fig tree (Isreal's rebirth as a nation in May of 1948) - It's all very obvious once you get away from the false teachers & listen to God's Holy Spirit

[jcr4runner]

You don't understand postmillennialism.

[SpinachVillage000]

Ok, i am researching this subject and other related ones, and that is how I found this video.

I realized that i misremembered Luke 21:24 (thank you)... however it says "Nations".

So the next obvious question is: what nation besides the Romans trampled over Jerusalem (during that specific 42 month period)? Thank u, Spinach.

[jcr4runner]

To fully understand Mat. 24 and Revelation, you MUST read Josephus, The History of the Wars of the Jews, the chapters n the siege of Jerusalem. Titus came with his Roman armies, but after a while withdrew and came with reinforcements with nations from the EAST, Syrians and so forth.

A good commentary on Revelation is David Chilton's Paradise Restored, which is available for FREE on-line at the ENTREWAVE site.

[nymphrenic]

Now I'm kind of irritated. He takes giant stretches for everything, but in this instance he takes prophecy time of 42 months as a literal 42 months.

I'm now convinced this guy has no clue about understanding prophecy. If his literal understanding of 42 months = 42 literal months, if he is right, then the fulfilled prophecies of the Bible would be completely ruined if we listen to this guy.

Boo!

[jcr4runner]

What do you think "42 months" means then -- if not 42 months?

Where else in the Bible is a month not a month?

[yukabak]

Still you have yet to give any plausible reason as to why the fulfilled prophecies of the Bible would be completely ruined, if he is right :)) That seems to me a very very arbitrary reasoning

The interesting thing is that according to some interpreters we have to take 1000 years literally but when it comes to 42 months oh it is not literal 42 months. That is a very "consistent" hermeneutics...

[zappaelcrappa]

42 months = 3 1/2 years and i believe it is a literal number of months.I know some people studying this subject have equated 42 months to 420 years i totally disagree.

[longtalltexan63]

But if you study Revelation it makes it clear that the Beast is Rome and the head that was wounded is Nero. The Beast is Nero and Rome.

It also says that the Beast that John saw was the sixth King (Emperor) and the seventh would only reign for a short time. The guy that followed Nero reigned for six months.

Luke 21 and Matthew 24 is not talking about a future tribulation. It is the judgment on Israel for rejecting the Messiah and prophets.

[frenchis19]

1000 years peopel say are a real 1000 years: NO NO NO : HEBREW LARGEST NUMBER WAS 1OOO AND WHEN TRANSLATED IT MEANS "ETERNITY" AND THERE WAS NEVER A TIME IN THE PAST KEN THAT 144,000 OF THE TRIBE WAS SELECTED TO GOD! I HEARD YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND IT IS TRULY CHILD'S PLAY WITH WORDS: BUT WHEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW,YOU WING IT RIGHT! TRUE THAT THE OTHER SIDE DOESN'T HAVE MANY GOOD ANSWERS EITHER BUT THEY FEED OFF EACH OTHER RATHER THEN TO SEEK 1JOHN2:27:

[frenchis19]

whenever you read 31/2 years in revelation , it is symbolic of jesus message to the world: yes it directs a man who walks in the flesh to a time in history and may relate to many times in history but revelation is much more then a history book but is layered and he who walks in spirit understands the two fold message given every generation who hopes in the 2nd return of jesus: nothing in revelation is as it seems: all is symbolic! 144,000 means "ALL" not a number as we know a number!