Religions made nothing but trouble in the world. they only made hate toward other people with other beliefs, other ways of thinking and other ideals. Could you name 1 war who has nothing to do with Religions? No. or it is about power or money. Atheism is the key of peace, isnt that obvious after thousands of years? geez.. Just take out the wise lessons out of the holy books, NOT about god and throw the rest of the bible and the koran etc in the garbidge. PLEASE!!
@joshrocks11 if you don't understand my ONLY argument, which is that you are making a positive assertion, then you aren't worth the time to try to open the mind of, have fun being a closed minded idiot.
@JOExTHExVEGAN You say I am making a claim by claiming I don't think the Christian god exist. Sure, I understand it, but your point is still stupid, and somewhat arbitrary. At this point, it does not matter if you think it is a positive claim or not, it isn't, but it doesn't matter.
You never have to prove what you don't think. Period. You are an idiot, or just being a troll if you think that.
@joshrocks11 Dude, you are making a claim if you say "This is fact." which you flat-out say, "God doesn't exist....", Just as the person saying "God exists" is making a claim. Neither of you are 'not' thinking anything. Again, if you say, "I see no evidence leading me to believe this, can you provide some?" that isn't a positive claim, because you aren't saying, "It's not true, i know that it's not for a fact." In that case, you would be not thinking something.
@JOExTHExVEGAN Because again, you aren't saying i know for a fact, you're saying you DON'T THINK it is truth, but if evidence were to be provided to be truth it could change your mind.
I guess you could say I'm a troll or an idiot, I could really care less about what some 13 year old calls me on youtube, that I stumbled across and thought it would be funny to question his logic and reasoning. Which it seems like you may have a little, and I like your stubborn attitude about it. Never lose that.
@JOExTHExVEGAN You are right, evidence could change my mind. But there is none, so I haven't. Your point is moot, and your arguments are demonstrably wrong.
@joshrocks11 ok then, so don't say god doesn't exist. say i don't believe he exists. therefore you wont be making the assertion that he doesn't exist, but instead asking for evidence of its existence.
Hello, friend. Your favorite pretentious asshole here. I believe it was Mao who said you cannot prove a pear is sweet to someone who refuses to taste it. Christians and atheists arguing about God's existence is futile. I do not call myself Christian, but I do believe in God through personal experience. Taste the pear. Truly taste the pear. If it is not sweet to you, the enjoy a life without pears. But don't just those of us who love its sweetness.
@mk41794 We have freedom of speech so we can argue and weed out bad ideas. I think religion is a kiss of death to modern society so I argue about it. And it is not futile I know five people personally who I have convinced that Christianity does not make sense and I am working on another right now.
@joshrocks11 So what's the payoff for this, my friend? What have you won? Seriously, I am astounded at the atheist's insistence on proving himself right. How does it enhance or improve your life? Sorry to be so blunt, but again, the arguments you are having with "Christians" (they're not real Christians, by the way) is like arguing whether or not a pear is sweet without having tasted it.
@mk41794 I used to be a christian so your pair thing is moot, and besides, that is extremely subjective, we can argue the objectivity of religion. And yes, religion has an impact on our society, notice how gays can get married.
And religion propagates more extreme people such as those who kill for their religion.
@joshrocks11 I tell you what ... I agree woth you on both of those counts. I support gay marriage (and can back it up with the Bible, believe it or not), and I am opposed to people who kill for their religion. I am of the opinion, however, that convincing Christians that God does not exist is more harmful than convincing Christians to actually try to emulate Christ, which -- let's face it -- 97% of them do not do. Search for Bill Maher's lecture about Christians needing to change their names.
personally, i wouldn't be one to say that god exists. but on the other hand, i wouldn't be so hard-headed as to say that i'm almost positive that one doesn't exist. both sides are very bold statements, as i have no explanation of where anything came into being if i said there is no god, yet, i have no explanation of how god came into being or proof of god if one(or more) did exist.
@JOExTHExVEGAN The only reason you say it is bold is because a lot of people believe in it. You don't think I am positive fairies don't exist is bold because people generally accept that fairies don't exist.
And at the very end, you are committing the argument from ignorance.
@joshrocks11 perhaps it is ignorance. explain to me where you believe the universe came into being.
and i said both sides of it are bold statements.
it is bold to say "God exists", because, can you prove that?
it is also bold to say "God doesn't exist", also, for the same question.
nobody knows whether God exists or God doesn't exist. and it is okay to believe or disbelieve. but you can't bash on people just because they don't think the same way as you about it.
strong atheism makes a 'positive assertion' that God does not exist, without the possibility that God may exist and just be unknowable.. in your sense, you seem to be saying that you are a weak atheist wherein a person does not believe in the existence of any deity, but does not explicitly claim that the statement "There is at least one god" is false.
@joshrocks11 then you shouldn't blatantly state that there is no god. because it makes it sound like you believe it to be fact. in which case, you would have to back it up. if you are simply saying, "do you have any proof of god's existence", then obviously you don't have to prove it, because you aren't making a claim at all. positive or negative. but to say "there is no god" is still a positive claim.
@joshrocks11 It applies to pretty much everything. Someone can say doorknobs don't exist. Are they justified in saying that just because they've never seen a doorknob before? And yes, it is a positive claim. 'cause you are saying it positively does not exist, thus making it positive. if you said you have doubts they exist, or prove that it exists, that's a different story. but that's not what you said son
@JOExTHExVEGAN The difference is, you can prove doorknobs exist and alleviate any doubt. And, no it is still not positive, he doesn't have to prove doorknobs don't exist, you have to prove to him they do.
@joshrocks11 i with the doorknob situation, i was agreeing to your saying the positive assertion thing doesn't apply to everything. but it does apply in certain circumstances when neither side has subjective proof. look up the definition of atheism, you will find that atheists "make the positive assertion that god does not exist".
an example of this working: "dinosaurs no longer exist on earth."
@JOExTHExVEGAN I have explained this so many times, it is absolutely baffling that you can't figure it out. Me saying I don't believe you, or a story is not a positive assertion. It is a negative one, which means I don't need to prove it.
@JOExTHExVEGAN Yes, I can. If you claim something without proof, I can say they are lying or wrong until evidence to the contrary reveals itself. This is not hard to understand.
Please tell me you are a troll, and not this stupid.
oh and also, along with your things you will not accept.. why don't you add into that "historical facts"? because the bible's not just some story book, alot (i know, not all, people didn't walk on water or talk to god and shit) of what's in there are real historical events.
and i didn't reply to ur little situation whether u created the universe, because it was a dumb situation. obviously you didn't, you were still not even thought of when i was getting old enough to realize that church is bullshit.
how can you say "the burden of proof is on the person making the claim" yet @2:32 you make the claim "god doesn't exist" how is that any different from somebody making the claim "god exists"?
That isn't the most logical, it is the easiest way to handle a situation without actually doing anything. And to make the claim "Well it is fifty fifty because you can't disprove it" is equally absurd. If you can't disprove a claim, that does not make it fifty/fifty. That would imply if I said I made the universe, you can't disprove me, which makes this fifty/fifty.
And I am not full of angst, religion has a major impact on cultural and political America.
@JOExTHExVEGAN lmao, Are you this dumb? The burden of proof is on the person that says " I believe this". Not the person asking for proof of "this". It is silly horseshit to ask the person to prove their lack of belief.
And it is almost as dumb to say it is fifty/fifty if you can't disprove it.
@joshrocks11 :LMAO, you're calling me dumb, when you couldn't even fully understand what i had asked you. you're making a claim too dumbshit. you are claiming that there is no god, correct? therefore, you are saying," i believe there is no god" or in your words "i believe this". so someone can ask for proof just as much as you can, because you're making a claim just as much as them. neither of your claims can be proven, so why don't you kill yourself and let me know what happens when we die?
@JOExTHExVEGAN A claim that is a positive assertion, like "Fairies are real" is a positive claim, thus needs proof.
A negative assertion is saying "I don't believe this until you prove fairies exist" is a negative assertion. A positive assertion is where the burden of proof lies.
@joshrocks11 and making the claim "this does not exist" isnt a positive assertion? you didn't say I don't believe this exists, you said "god doesn't exist", which would be you stating that you believe it to be fact. so, you need to back it up as well. you can't say "give me evidence backing up what you believe" and then "i don't have to give you evidence of what i believe, because i didn't state my opinion first." any politician/religious figure would laugh at your dumbass.
Do you not see the flaw in that? And no, you are still wrong. If someone is accused of stealing, the person accusing must prove it. Not the person being accused. Can he lay out reasons why it is unlikely he stole? Sure, you can, but the burden of proof is on the accuser.
@joshrocks11 what? "god doesn't exist. prove it. prove he doesn't"? that don't even make sense lol. and yeah, i do know what hypocritical means. you're being hypocritical by saying that when a person claims something exists, you have to prove it. yet when someone claims something does not exist, you don't. either way you're making a claim, you can't just make a claim and not back it up because you don't feel the need to lol
@JOExTHExVEGAN You obviously don't know what it means then. Rules of logic dictates a positive claim needs to be proven. Someone asking for proof of the assertion does not need to prove the nonexistence.
No one needs to disprove fairies because no one has provided credible reasoning for it. The disprovable needs to be proven, and not vice versa.
@joshrocks11 you obviously don't know what i'm saying. you are still making a positive claim. just because you're not the one saying it exists, you're still stating you believe something to be face. in the video you aren't saying "i wan't proof of god's existence", you're saying "god doesn't exist". if you're not going to understand that, then i'm done with this it's been fun though kid
@JOExTHExVEGAN If I don't know what you are saying it is because you are miscommunication your positions. Either way saying something doesn't exist, is a negative claim. If I say bigfoot doesn't exist, then I don't have to prove that, someone needs to prove to me that bigfoot does exist, if they are so inclined.
If someone tells yous a story, and you respond with I don't believe you. Is it your job to disprove the story, no, that would be ludicrous.
@joshrocks11 if you said bigfoot doesn't exist, and someone was like me and in the middle, and said "how do you know" then you would have to prove it to me that he doesn't exist. just like someone would also have to prove to me that bigfoot did exist if they did make that claim.
@JOExTHExVEGAN You assume he doesn't until their is evidence to the contrary. You asking a question does not change where the burden of proof goes, all you are doing is asking the wrong person. You should be asking the person who believes in it "How do you know", asking the person who asked that person to prove it is absurd on many levels.
@joshrocks11 how is it dumb to say it is fifty fifty if you cant prove it or disprove it? you must be a fucking retard maybe you should pay attention in math, and you haven't provided any quality reasons as to why you don't believe in god, except for the fact that it can't be proven to be true. u have a bunch of disputes about the bible and it's teachings, maybe you should just check out some other religions
@JOExTHExVEGAN Alright, say I created the universe, is it fifty/fifty because you can't disprove me. If someone provides me a case to believe in another religion, I will look into it, but believing something because you can't disprove is intellectual cowardice.
@joshrocks11 let's say someone came and said that they have 20 dollars in their wallet. you later realize that you are missing 20 dollars. do you have proof that they stole your 20 dollars? no. but do you have reason to believe that they stole your 20 dollars? yes. who has to prove it? you're both going to work at proving it, aren't you. one person is making a claim and another disagreeingith said claim, it doesn't matter. the burden of proof is on both sides. you gotta try to prove that
@JOExTHExVEGAN That is a plausible situation, but it is still not fifty/fifty mainly because there are other variables in this situation.
Much like there is too many different theories on how the universe started to be fifty/fifty. If we just look at it like "This can happen, and this can happen" which makes it fifty/fifty.
It can't be fifty/fifty that I didn't or I did create the universe, because I wasn't around for that. So it is 0 percent chance that I created it.
@joshrocks11 that 20 dollar situation is completely and utterly 50/50. i don't see how you would think it's not.
the world didn't just appear, and science has no evidence to claim where everything came into being.
how do you think it happened? once there was nothing, then there was something, and then the big bang? where the matter that was involved came from in the first place doesn't really matter? as long as the big bang happened and science explains where we came from?
@JOExTHExVEGAN "I am an idiot. Let me apply the argument from ignorance. See, we don't know, it could have been god, which makes it fifty/fifty, right?"
No, there are too many gods, which takes away the fifty/fifty. But even then, there is no reason to assume a magical being did it to begin with.
@joshrocks11 that doesn't answer my question, my question was. where do you assume that the very first matter particles in existence came from? it's a sincere question, i wanna know.
so somebody is accused of stealing, arrested for it. they are found guilty. they then have the right to appeal, which means that they can go back to court to CONTINUE TRYING TO PROVE that they did not steal. if the person who stole doesn't prove they didn't steal, then they are found guilty, because there's no rea
people are going to argue on both sides. prove god doesn't exist, prove god exists. what the fuck does it matter. you believe in it or you don't. the most logical thing to do is to accept that it's possible that god exists, but it's also possible that he doesn't exist. rather than sitting there in front of the webcam mommy and daddy bought you bitching about it. i know, i was 16 and full of angst once too. maybe when you get older you'll learn to accept that people have different views than you.
I think it is incredibly astounding you think the smartest option is to put your head in the sand and ignore it. We have freedom of speech to weed out bad ideas, not to say "meh, fuck it, it is too hard".
@joshrocks11 i never said that ignoring it is the best option dipshit. i said that accepting both sides of the debate as logical rather than bashing people for something that they believe in is the smarter idea. like i said YOU BELIEVE IN IT OR YOU DON'T.. so obviously you can have an opinion on the matter, and discuss it, but you can also see where others are coming from. read a book or two then come back. trust me, i used to be just like you when i was a kid.
@JOExTHExVEGAN No, bad ideas need to be ridiculed. When we have an open forum our standard of living increases with the best ideas. Accepting to be accepting is stupid.
god accepts you for whatever you do that is the poin as long as you mean good, people that kill whit pourpuse or rape are the devil you have never met a person afflicted or close to god, you are a kid whit problems probabley mocked in school or molested. and to critisise other peoples belife?! they belive in him/it nature for a reason you ignorant shit head! i know people that have been trough hell and back your just dumb.
@AAAAAAdddddrrri All you have done is assert something, and then call me ignorant. Ignorance is just a simple lack of knowledge, and you are misusing the word to stigmatize me. I am not mocked, or molested, but if I was, so fucking what, how is what I said less true. I know why they believe, and it is not a good reason.
@joshrocks11 why would god show him self to a guy that belives and adores everything he dosent stand for ? beacuse he created you as his child? its your mission to be the best you can be and people who dont realize that are sad.
@AAAAAAdddddrrri What do I stand for he doesn't stand for? And I am generally a good person, I am not going to steal, or kill. You think my creator would be more willing to tell me I am wrong.
And if am his creation, and I am bad. Isn't the creator's fault, not the creation.
Religions made nothing but trouble in the world. they only made hate toward other people with other beliefs, other ways of thinking and other ideals. Could you name 1 war who has nothing to do with Religions? No. or it is about power or money. Atheism is the key of peace, isnt that obvious after thousands of years? geez.. Just take out the wise lessons out of the holy books, NOT about god and throw the rest of the bible and the koran etc in the garbidge. PLEASE!!
noobbush 3 months ago
that's right bitch, stop responding.
JOExTHExVEGAN 6 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN You have not made a worth whiled argument. You have said fallacious things, but that is it.
joshrocks11 6 months ago
@joshrocks11 if you don't understand my ONLY argument, which is that you are making a positive assertion, then you aren't worth the time to try to open the mind of, have fun being a closed minded idiot.
JOExTHExVEGAN 3 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN I understand it, it is just blatantly wrong.
joshrocks11 3 months ago
@joshrocks11 you don't understand it then. either that or you're just that stubborn.
JOExTHExVEGAN 3 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN You say I am making a claim by claiming I don't think the Christian god exist. Sure, I understand it, but your point is still stupid, and somewhat arbitrary. At this point, it does not matter if you think it is a positive claim or not, it isn't, but it doesn't matter.
You never have to prove what you don't think. Period. You are an idiot, or just being a troll if you think that.
joshrocks11 3 months ago
@joshrocks11 Dude, you are making a claim if you say "This is fact." which you flat-out say, "God doesn't exist....", Just as the person saying "God exists" is making a claim. Neither of you are 'not' thinking anything. Again, if you say, "I see no evidence leading me to believe this, can you provide some?" that isn't a positive claim, because you aren't saying, "It's not true, i know that it's not for a fact." In that case, you would be not thinking something.
JOExTHExVEGAN 3 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN Because again, you aren't saying i know for a fact, you're saying you DON'T THINK it is truth, but if evidence were to be provided to be truth it could change your mind.
I guess you could say I'm a troll or an idiot, I could really care less about what some 13 year old calls me on youtube, that I stumbled across and thought it would be funny to question his logic and reasoning. Which it seems like you may have a little, and I like your stubborn attitude about it. Never lose that.
JOExTHExVEGAN 3 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN You are right, evidence could change my mind. But there is none, so I haven't. Your point is moot, and your arguments are demonstrably wrong.
joshrocks11 3 months ago
@joshrocks11 ok then, so don't say god doesn't exist. say i don't believe he exists. therefore you wont be making the assertion that he doesn't exist, but instead asking for evidence of its existence.
JOExTHExVEGAN 3 months ago
Hello, friend. Your favorite pretentious asshole here. I believe it was Mao who said you cannot prove a pear is sweet to someone who refuses to taste it. Christians and atheists arguing about God's existence is futile. I do not call myself Christian, but I do believe in God through personal experience. Taste the pear. Truly taste the pear. If it is not sweet to you, the enjoy a life without pears. But don't just those of us who love its sweetness.
mk41794 6 months ago
@mk41794 We have freedom of speech so we can argue and weed out bad ideas. I think religion is a kiss of death to modern society so I argue about it. And it is not futile I know five people personally who I have convinced that Christianity does not make sense and I am working on another right now.
joshrocks11 6 months ago
@joshrocks11 So what's the payoff for this, my friend? What have you won? Seriously, I am astounded at the atheist's insistence on proving himself right. How does it enhance or improve your life? Sorry to be so blunt, but again, the arguments you are having with "Christians" (they're not real Christians, by the way) is like arguing whether or not a pear is sweet without having tasted it.
mk41794 6 months ago
@mk41794 I used to be a christian so your pair thing is moot, and besides, that is extremely subjective, we can argue the objectivity of religion. And yes, religion has an impact on our society, notice how gays can get married.
And religion propagates more extreme people such as those who kill for their religion.
joshrocks11 6 months ago
@joshrocks11 I tell you what ... I agree woth you on both of those counts. I support gay marriage (and can back it up with the Bible, believe it or not), and I am opposed to people who kill for their religion. I am of the opinion, however, that convincing Christians that God does not exist is more harmful than convincing Christians to actually try to emulate Christ, which -- let's face it -- 97% of them do not do. Search for Bill Maher's lecture about Christians needing to change their names.
mk41794 6 months ago
I agree with you. God is an asshole. But... how old are you again?
KakashiHatake2121 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i should have said, "how the universe came into being"
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
personally, i wouldn't be one to say that god exists. but on the other hand, i wouldn't be so hard-headed as to say that i'm almost positive that one doesn't exist. both sides are very bold statements, as i have no explanation of where anything came into being if i said there is no god, yet, i have no explanation of how god came into being or proof of god if one(or more) did exist.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN The only reason you say it is bold is because a lot of people believe in it. You don't think I am positive fairies don't exist is bold because people generally accept that fairies don't exist.
And at the very end, you are committing the argument from ignorance.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 perhaps it is ignorance. explain to me where you believe the universe came into being.
and i said both sides of it are bold statements.
it is bold to say "God exists", because, can you prove that?
it is also bold to say "God doesn't exist", also, for the same question.
nobody knows whether God exists or God doesn't exist. and it is okay to believe or disbelieve. but you can't bash on people just because they don't think the same way as you about it.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
strong atheism makes a 'positive assertion' that God does not exist, without the possibility that God may exist and just be unknowable.. in your sense, you seem to be saying that you are a weak atheist wherein a person does not believe in the existence of any deity, but does not explicitly claim that the statement "There is at least one god" is false.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN There is no certainty, and if anybody claims any is a fool.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 then you shouldn't blatantly state that there is no god. because it makes it sound like you believe it to be fact. in which case, you would have to back it up. if you are simply saying, "do you have any proof of god's existence", then obviously you don't have to prove it, because you aren't making a claim at all. positive or negative. but to say "there is no god" is still a positive claim.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN This would apply to everything then. I am going to say something doesn't exist, till it is proven to me that it does exist.
I can't say with absolute certainty that fairies don't exist. But I am confident enough to say they probably don't exist.
And no, it is still not a positive claim, I already explained this.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 It applies to pretty much everything. Someone can say doorknobs don't exist. Are they justified in saying that just because they've never seen a doorknob before? And yes, it is a positive claim. 'cause you are saying it positively does not exist, thus making it positive. if you said you have doubts they exist, or prove that it exists, that's a different story. but that's not what you said son
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN The difference is, you can prove doorknobs exist and alleviate any doubt. And, no it is still not positive, he doesn't have to prove doorknobs don't exist, you have to prove to him they do.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 i with the doorknob situation, i was agreeing to your saying the positive assertion thing doesn't apply to everything. but it does apply in certain circumstances when neither side has subjective proof. look up the definition of atheism, you will find that atheists "make the positive assertion that god does not exist".
an example of this working: "dinosaurs no longer exist on earth."
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
you are makin a claim, without proof.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN I have explained this so many times, it is absolutely baffling that you can't figure it out. Me saying I don't believe you, or a story is not a positive assertion. It is a negative one, which means I don't need to prove it.
herptoderp
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 but you're not saying you don't believe something. you're saying something doesn't exist. lol
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
and you can't claim they're wrong without evidence, just like they can't claim they're right without evidence.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN Yes, I can. If you claim something without proof, I can say they are lying or wrong until evidence to the contrary reveals itself. This is not hard to understand.
Please tell me you are a troll, and not this stupid.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
you're not asking a question, you are making a statement by saying it doesn't exist.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
oh and also, along with your things you will not accept.. why don't you add into that "historical facts"? because the bible's not just some story book, alot (i know, not all, people didn't walk on water or talk to god and shit) of what's in there are real historical events.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
and i didn't reply to ur little situation whether u created the universe, because it was a dumb situation. obviously you didn't, you were still not even thought of when i was getting old enough to realize that church is bullshit.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
oh. and you are the biggest pussy in the world.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
u stutter too much. maybe a public speaking class or do they not have those in middle school
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
how can you say "the burden of proof is on the person making the claim" yet @2:32 you make the claim "god doesn't exist" how is that any different from somebody making the claim "god exists"?
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN
That isn't the most logical, it is the easiest way to handle a situation without actually doing anything. And to make the claim "Well it is fifty fifty because you can't disprove it" is equally absurd. If you can't disprove a claim, that does not make it fifty/fifty. That would imply if I said I made the universe, you can't disprove me, which makes this fifty/fifty.
And I am not full of angst, religion has a major impact on cultural and political America.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 you're also claiming that god doesn't exist, correct? well prove your claim.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN lmao, Are you this dumb? The burden of proof is on the person that says " I believe this". Not the person asking for proof of "this". It is silly horseshit to ask the person to prove their lack of belief.
And it is almost as dumb to say it is fifty/fifty if you can't disprove it.
herpaderp
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 :LMAO, you're calling me dumb, when you couldn't even fully understand what i had asked you. you're making a claim too dumbshit. you are claiming that there is no god, correct? therefore, you are saying," i believe there is no god" or in your words "i believe this". so someone can ask for proof just as much as you can, because you're making a claim just as much as them. neither of your claims can be proven, so why don't you kill yourself and let me know what happens when we die?
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN A claim that is a positive assertion, like "Fairies are real" is a positive claim, thus needs proof.
A negative assertion is saying "I don't believe this until you prove fairies exist" is a negative assertion. A positive assertion is where the burden of proof lies.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 and making the claim "this does not exist" isnt a positive assertion? you didn't say I don't believe this exists, you said "god doesn't exist", which would be you stating that you believe it to be fact. so, you need to back it up as well. you can't say "give me evidence backing up what you believe" and then "i don't have to give you evidence of what i believe, because i didn't state my opinion first." any politician/religious figure would laugh at your dumbass.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN
"Fairies exist"
"Prove it"
"Prove it doesn't"
Do you not see the flaw in that? And no, you are still wrong. If someone is accused of stealing, the person accusing must prove it. Not the person being accused. Can he lay out reasons why it is unlikely he stole? Sure, you can, but the burden of proof is on the accuser.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11
"God doesn't exist."
"Prove it"
Prove He does"
and you see no flaw in that? I don't get you, you're pretty hypocritical lol
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN
I meant to say "Prove he doesn't". I had a typo. And I don't think you know what hypocritical means.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 what? "god doesn't exist. prove it. prove he doesn't"? that don't even make sense lol. and yeah, i do know what hypocritical means. you're being hypocritical by saying that when a person claims something exists, you have to prove it. yet when someone claims something does not exist, you don't. either way you're making a claim, you can't just make a claim and not back it up because you don't feel the need to lol
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN You obviously don't know what it means then. Rules of logic dictates a positive claim needs to be proven. Someone asking for proof of the assertion does not need to prove the nonexistence.
No one needs to disprove fairies because no one has provided credible reasoning for it. The disprovable needs to be proven, and not vice versa.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 you obviously don't know what i'm saying. you are still making a positive claim. just because you're not the one saying it exists, you're still stating you believe something to be face. in the video you aren't saying "i wan't proof of god's existence", you're saying "god doesn't exist". if you're not going to understand that, then i'm done with this it's been fun though kid
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"you believe something to be fact"*
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN If I don't know what you are saying it is because you are miscommunication your positions. Either way saying something doesn't exist, is a negative claim. If I say bigfoot doesn't exist, then I don't have to prove that, someone needs to prove to me that bigfoot does exist, if they are so inclined.
If someone tells yous a story, and you respond with I don't believe you. Is it your job to disprove the story, no, that would be ludicrous.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 if you said bigfoot doesn't exist, and someone was like me and in the middle, and said "how do you know" then you would have to prove it to me that he doesn't exist. just like someone would also have to prove to me that bigfoot did exist if they did make that claim.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN You assume he doesn't until their is evidence to the contrary. You asking a question does not change where the burden of proof goes, all you are doing is asking the wrong person. You should be asking the person who believes in it "How do you know", asking the person who asked that person to prove it is absurd on many levels.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 how is it dumb to say it is fifty fifty if you cant prove it or disprove it? you must be a fucking retard maybe you should pay attention in math, and you haven't provided any quality reasons as to why you don't believe in god, except for the fact that it can't be proven to be true. u have a bunch of disputes about the bible and it's teachings, maybe you should just check out some other religions
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN Alright, say I created the universe, is it fifty/fifty because you can't disprove me. If someone provides me a case to believe in another religion, I will look into it, but believing something because you can't disprove is intellectual cowardice.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 let's say someone came and said that they have 20 dollars in their wallet. you later realize that you are missing 20 dollars. do you have proof that they stole your 20 dollars? no. but do you have reason to believe that they stole your 20 dollars? yes. who has to prove it? you're both going to work at proving it, aren't you. one person is making a claim and another disagreeingith said claim, it doesn't matter. the burden of proof is on both sides. you gotta try to prove that
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 (continue) nigga took your 20 bucks, and he's gotta prove that he didn't.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN That is a plausible situation, but it is still not fifty/fifty mainly because there are other variables in this situation.
Much like there is too many different theories on how the universe started to be fifty/fifty. If we just look at it like "This can happen, and this can happen" which makes it fifty/fifty.
It can't be fifty/fifty that I didn't or I did create the universe, because I wasn't around for that. So it is 0 percent chance that I created it.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 that 20 dollar situation is completely and utterly 50/50. i don't see how you would think it's not.
the world didn't just appear, and science has no evidence to claim where everything came into being.
how do you think it happened? once there was nothing, then there was something, and then the big bang? where the matter that was involved came from in the first place doesn't really matter? as long as the big bang happened and science explains where we came from?
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN "I am an idiot. Let me apply the argument from ignorance. See, we don't know, it could have been god, which makes it fifty/fifty, right?"
No, there are too many gods, which takes away the fifty/fifty. But even then, there is no reason to assume a magical being did it to begin with.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 that doesn't answer my question, my question was. where do you assume that the very first matter particles in existence came from? it's a sincere question, i wanna know.
so somebody is accused of stealing, arrested for it. they are found guilty. they then have the right to appeal, which means that they can go back to court to CONTINUE TRYING TO PROVE that they did not steal. if the person who stole doesn't prove they didn't steal, then they are found guilty, because there's no rea
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 sonable doubt that they stole.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
people are going to argue on both sides. prove god doesn't exist, prove god exists. what the fuck does it matter. you believe in it or you don't. the most logical thing to do is to accept that it's possible that god exists, but it's also possible that he doesn't exist. rather than sitting there in front of the webcam mommy and daddy bought you bitching about it. i know, i was 16 and full of angst once too. maybe when you get older you'll learn to accept that people have different views than you.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN
*Continued
I think it is incredibly astounding you think the smartest option is to put your head in the sand and ignore it. We have freedom of speech to weed out bad ideas, not to say "meh, fuck it, it is too hard".
joshrocks11 8 months ago
@joshrocks11 i never said that ignoring it is the best option dipshit. i said that accepting both sides of the debate as logical rather than bashing people for something that they believe in is the smarter idea. like i said YOU BELIEVE IN IT OR YOU DON'T.. so obviously you can have an opinion on the matter, and discuss it, but you can also see where others are coming from. read a book or two then come back. trust me, i used to be just like you when i was a kid.
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
@JOExTHExVEGAN No, bad ideas need to be ridiculed. When we have an open forum our standard of living increases with the best ideas. Accepting to be accepting is stupid.
joshrocks11 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
so why don't you believe in god exactly
JOExTHExVEGAN 8 months ago
god accepts you for whatever you do that is the poin as long as you mean good, people that kill whit pourpuse or rape are the devil you have never met a person afflicted or close to god, you are a kid whit problems probabley mocked in school or molested. and to critisise other peoples belife?! they belive in him/it nature for a reason you ignorant shit head! i know people that have been trough hell and back your just dumb.
AAAAAAdddddrrri 11 months ago
@AAAAAAdddddrrri All you have done is assert something, and then call me ignorant. Ignorance is just a simple lack of knowledge, and you are misusing the word to stigmatize me. I am not mocked, or molested, but if I was, so fucking what, how is what I said less true. I know why they believe, and it is not a good reason.
Now, please, show me some proof.
joshrocks11 11 months ago
@joshrocks11 why would god show him self to a guy that belives and adores everything he dosent stand for ? beacuse he created you as his child? its your mission to be the best you can be and people who dont realize that are sad.
AAAAAAdddddrrri 11 months ago
@AAAAAAdddddrrri What do I stand for he doesn't stand for? And I am generally a good person, I am not going to steal, or kill. You think my creator would be more willing to tell me I am wrong.
And if am his creation, and I am bad. Isn't the creator's fault, not the creation.
joshrocks11 11 months ago
haha I find it funny you are soo proud of your petty little arguments with random internet people.
lickapotato 1 year ago
JOSH YOU FAG YOUR NOT FUNNY! No one likes you. You are even a bad atheist, they even hate you!
lickapotato 1 year ago
@lickapotato
Who is they, and who hates me? Wait, I don't care I don't.. I just don't understand how someone can be as dumb as you
Everything you have said has been incoherent, and everyone is now dumber from having read it.
joshrocks11 1 year ago
@lickapotato And I own a not funny?
joshrocks11 1 year ago
@lickapotato So? We Atheists have a natural tendency to be assholes.
Jakster840 9 months ago
This is all just sort of rambling with no good debate or facts. I find this is disappointing to all atheists.
casey321b 1 year ago
@casey321b
In fact, it was a ramble. Who would of thunk it, huh?
joshrocks11 1 year ago
prove you arent a faggot
UncleItchyBalls 1 year ago
@UncleItchyBalls
Bahaha
Nice to talk to you again.
joshrocks11 1 year ago
@joshrocks11 :)
UncleItchyBalls 1 year ago
@joshrocks11 sandiegonation posted your channel on the forum. never realized you were so young
UncleItchyBalls 1 year ago
@UncleItchyBalls I don't remember who that is. But yeah, I came on the forums when I was like twelve, I was dumb too.
Fun times though.
joshrocks11 1 year ago
You're not going to make a good case for your self when you make inflammatory remarks like that. lol
tazer95 1 year ago
@tazer95 Oh well.
vip2620 1 year ago
@vip2620 4 strength 4 stam leather belt! Aaaah! Level 18? Uhh uhh
tazer95 1 year ago
Nice.
vip2620 1 year ago