@mamacornettesmoney No, I don't. KJ was big time. I agree completely. KJ and Mark Price were two of the elite PGs of their day. Given the choice between the two in their primes, I take Mark Price.
Would have loved to see Price and KJ go at it. Throw in Majerle, Ceballos, Ainge and Chambers and it would have been a most entertaining series. The Bulls pretty much whipped that squad, but I'd call it a wash with the Cavs.
@Yaravis The Bulls didn't "whip" that squad in the least. Indeed, it was probably one of the most competitive NBA Finals ever with five fairly close games, one of which went to triple-overtime (the Suns won) and one of which came down to the buzzer (the Suns lost). Chicago won 4-2, but Phoenix was leading Game Six 98-94 with forty seconds remaining, on the verge of forcing a Game Seven in Arizona.
Frankly, the Bulls were running up-hill in that series starting in Game Three. The Suns' lack of Finals experience hurt them in the first two games, especially Game One (Ainge was the only Sun who had ever played in the Finals previously). But when the series shifted to Chicago, the Suns won two of the three games and surely would have won all three if head coach Paul Westphal hadn't reverted to Dan Majerle (plus a rookie Richard Dumas) to defend Michael Jordan in Game Four.
Price was not better than Stockton. I think the three are close, but I'd go Stockton, Price, KJ. KJ also had the luxury of playing with the third greatest player of his day (behind MJ and Hakeem), Charles Barkley. It's a shame that Price never really had his full complement of players in the playoffs: Nance, Daugherty, Hot Rod Williams, and, alas, Ron Harper. That's a team that would have broken through to the finals at least once.
@Yaravis Whioah, KJ was a top point guard well before Barkley got there. No way would I take Price over KJ. Price was damn good, but KJ he was not. BTW, KJ is the main reason that Barkely named Phoenix as his choice when he demanded a trade. He though KJ was the beat PG in basketball, and at the time (when Magic retired at least), only Stockton was a competitor for that title.
Statistics are a waste of time. Price was a lifetime .464 shooter in the playoffs. KJ shot .469, so I'm not sure I get your point. Their playoff futility is equal. Neither won a championship b/c of MJ. Had the Suns played MJ's Bulls five times in the Eastern Conference playoffs, THEY would have been the ones losing all five series.
The year that Price went down with an ACL, the Cavs were a lottery team, so his impact appears similar to that of Johnson's.
Great pgs in that era. Price kept All-stars KJ and Terrel Brandon from taking his starting job. Later on, from 96-98 KJ was in pg a guard rotation that include Nash and Kidd!
Needless to say, Jordan and Thomas weren't playing one-on-one. Until 1991, Thomas simply played for the better team and Jerry West, for one, considered Joe Dumars a superior player to Isiah Thomas.
By your logic, Price might as well have been better than John Stockton, too. However, compared to Price, K.J. was a superior playmaker, defender, penetrator, and scorer. Price was a better pure shooter and three-point shooter, but really no more efficient as a scorer (Price's career True Shooting Percentage is .586 to K.J.'s .585).
When K.J. arrived in Phoenix in February 1988 as a twenty-one-year old rookie reserve point guard, the Suns were on their way to a 28-win season, they hadn't won more than 36 games since 1984, and they hadn't reached the playoffs since 1985. Then in Johnson's first seven full seasons in Phoenix (1989-1995), the Suns won the most regular season games in the entire 394, an average of 56.3) and the second-most playoff games (46), trailing only Jordan's Bulls.
By the way, in both 1989 and 1991, K.J. joined Magic Johnson as the only players in NBA history to average at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, and a .500 field goal percentage in the same season (Chris Paul joined them last season). When K.J. broke into the NBA in 1987, he was a twenty-one-year old rookie, whereas Price was twenty-three and in his second season. That difference can prove huge and helps explain why Price won the starting job.
By the way, Price's Cavs also lost to the Bulls in a first round sweep in 1994, when Jordan was playing minor league baseball. Yes, Cleveland's front-line was decimated by the injuries to Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance, and John Williams, but the Cavaliers couldn't even win a game from the Jordan-less Bulls. .
Moreover, Price's healthy Cavs couldn't win a single game from Jordan's Bulls in the 1993 second round, and Price's healthy, 57-win Cavs lost to Jordan's 47-win Bulls in the 1989 first round. Price's Cavs also fell in the first round to the Sixers in 1990 and to the Knicks in 1995.
Indeed, perhaps the fact that Price shot below .445 from the field in four of seven career postseasons and below .390 three times helps explain Cleveland's playoff futility. I admire Price, but in 1998, there's a reason why "The Sporting News" selected Kevin Johnson as one of the publication's two All-Playoffs Second Team guards for the decade (along with Isiah Thomas and behind Michael Jordan and Clyde Drexler on the First Team).
K.J.'s 1990 Suns were the only team to defeat both John Stockton's Jazz (55 wins) and Magic Johnson's Lakers (63 wins) in the same postseason, even though Phoenix lacked home-court advantage for either series. K.J.'s Suns also defeated Gary Payton's 55-win Sonics in 1993. So just because K.J.'s Suns barely lost the 1993 NBA Finals to Jordan's Bulls in their only crack at Chicago doesn't suggest equivalent futility.
The only bad thing about the KJ trade was the switching of #1 picks. The Suns got Thunder Dan, the Cavs got Randolph Keys.
djdeac 2 months ago
3:36
I love The Dream but he woke up late on that play.
Sorry...terrible joke.
jackdroidnimble 6 months ago
@mamacornettesmoney No, I don't. KJ was big time. I agree completely. KJ and Mark Price were two of the elite PGs of their day. Given the choice between the two in their primes, I take Mark Price.
Yaravis 8 months ago
Would have loved to see Price and KJ go at it. Throw in Majerle, Ceballos, Ainge and Chambers and it would have been a most entertaining series. The Bulls pretty much whipped that squad, but I'd call it a wash with the Cavs.
Yaravis 2 years ago
@Yaravis The Bulls didn't "whip" that squad in the least. Indeed, it was probably one of the most competitive NBA Finals ever with five fairly close games, one of which went to triple-overtime (the Suns won) and one of which came down to the buzzer (the Suns lost). Chicago won 4-2, but Phoenix was leading Game Six 98-94 with forty seconds remaining, on the verge of forcing a Game Seven in Arizona.
joekiddlouischama 1 year ago
Frankly, the Bulls were running up-hill in that series starting in Game Three. The Suns' lack of Finals experience hurt them in the first two games, especially Game One (Ainge was the only Sun who had ever played in the Finals previously). But when the series shifted to Chicago, the Suns won two of the three games and surely would have won all three if head coach Paul Westphal hadn't reverted to Dan Majerle (plus a rookie Richard Dumas) to defend Michael Jordan in Game Four.
joekiddlouischama 1 year ago
@Yaravis Bulls did not whip the Suns at all. It was the toughest Finals series the Bulls had.
mamacornettesmoney 1 year ago
Price was not better than Stockton. I think the three are close, but I'd go Stockton, Price, KJ. KJ also had the luxury of playing with the third greatest player of his day (behind MJ and Hakeem), Charles Barkley. It's a shame that Price never really had his full complement of players in the playoffs: Nance, Daugherty, Hot Rod Williams, and, alas, Ron Harper. That's a team that would have broken through to the finals at least once.
Yaravis 2 years ago
@Yaravis Whioah, KJ was a top point guard well before Barkley got there. No way would I take Price over KJ. Price was damn good, but KJ he was not. BTW, KJ is the main reason that Barkely named Phoenix as his choice when he demanded a trade. He though KJ was the beat PG in basketball, and at the time (when Magic retired at least), only Stockton was a competitor for that title.
mamacornettesmoney 1 year ago
Statistics are a waste of time. Price was a lifetime .464 shooter in the playoffs. KJ shot .469, so I'm not sure I get your point. Their playoff futility is equal. Neither won a championship b/c of MJ. Had the Suns played MJ's Bulls five times in the Eastern Conference playoffs, THEY would have been the ones losing all five series.
The year that Price went down with an ACL, the Cavs were a lottery team, so his impact appears similar to that of Johnson's.
Yaravis 2 years ago
Now if we can keep KJ away from underage girls everything will be alright
Bahia82 2 years ago
Great pgs in that era. Price kept All-stars KJ and Terrel Brandon from taking his starting job. Later on, from 96-98 KJ was in pg a guard rotation that include Nash and Kidd!
neeks6 2 years ago
Well, eventually the Cavaliers traded Price and made Brandon their starting point guard.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
Mark Price never won a title because of Michael Jordan. Kevin Johnson never won a title because of...Michael Jordan.
Both players in their prime? Price every time.
Yaravis 2 years ago
Alot of players never won a title cause of Jordan and for the longest time Jordan couldn't beat Isiah until 1991.
TheRatedIX7 2 years ago
Needless to say, Jordan and Thomas weren't playing one-on-one. Until 1991, Thomas simply played for the better team and Jerry West, for one, considered Joe Dumars a superior player to Isiah Thomas.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
So Price led the Cavaliers past a 63-win Laker team with an MVP Magic Johnson?
I didn't think so.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
So Kevin Johnson shredded Mark Price in practice so bad that they traded Price for Larry Nance?
I didn't think so.
Remember, KJ won exactly as many titles as Price did. Price was better, and that's that.
Yaravis 2 years ago
By your logic, Price might as well have been better than John Stockton, too. However, compared to Price, K.J. was a superior playmaker, defender, penetrator, and scorer. Price was a better pure shooter and three-point shooter, but really no more efficient as a scorer (Price's career True Shooting Percentage is .586 to K.J.'s .585).
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
When K.J. arrived in Phoenix in February 1988 as a twenty-one-year old rookie reserve point guard, the Suns were on their way to a 28-win season, they hadn't won more than 36 games since 1984, and they hadn't reached the playoffs since 1985. Then in Johnson's first seven full seasons in Phoenix (1989-1995), the Suns won the most regular season games in the entire 394, an average of 56.3) and the second-most playoff games (46), trailing only Jordan's Bulls.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
Over the course of that span, no point guard gave his team a better chance to win than Kevin Johnson.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
By the way, in both 1989 and 1991, K.J. joined Magic Johnson as the only players in NBA history to average at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, and a .500 field goal percentage in the same season (Chris Paul joined them last season). When K.J. broke into the NBA in 1987, he was a twenty-one-year old rookie, whereas Price was twenty-three and in his second season. That difference can prove huge and helps explain why Price won the starting job.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
Price hadn't done much as a rookie in '86-'87, but a year of experience and another year of age in one's early twenties can be monumental.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
By the way, Price's Cavs also lost to the Bulls in a first round sweep in 1994, when Jordan was playing minor league baseball. Yes, Cleveland's front-line was decimated by the injuries to Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance, and John Williams, but the Cavaliers couldn't even win a game from the Jordan-less Bulls. .
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
Moreover, Price's healthy Cavs couldn't win a single game from Jordan's Bulls in the 1993 second round, and Price's healthy, 57-win Cavs lost to Jordan's 47-win Bulls in the 1989 first round. Price's Cavs also fell in the first round to the Sixers in 1990 and to the Knicks in 1995.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
Indeed, perhaps the fact that Price shot below .445 from the field in four of seven career postseasons and below .390 three times helps explain Cleveland's playoff futility. I admire Price, but in 1998, there's a reason why "The Sporting News" selected Kevin Johnson as one of the publication's two All-Playoffs Second Team guards for the decade (along with Isiah Thomas and behind Michael Jordan and Clyde Drexler on the First Team).
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
K.J.'s 1990 Suns were the only team to defeat both John Stockton's Jazz (55 wins) and Magic Johnson's Lakers (63 wins) in the same postseason, even though Phoenix lacked home-court advantage for either series. K.J.'s Suns also defeated Gary Payton's 55-win Sonics in 1993. So just because K.J.'s Suns barely lost the 1993 NBA Finals to Jordan's Bulls in their only crack at Chicago doesn't suggest equivalent futility.
joekiddlouischama 2 years ago
@Yaravis You severely underestimate KJ. the guy was BIG TIME.
mamacornettesmoney 1 year ago
They were both great players, but if I had to pick I'd take KJ.
jackdav34 3 years ago