I feel so sad... this video makes me so miserable. I wish with all my heart to call Israel my home one day. I am so tired to feel like nobody want's me. The only thing I wish years now is to have a place to put my books and know home is there...
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
its not their home... its MY home. when the time comes they will have to return to england while i take my place in palestine back.
it pains me that families move here thinking its their home... but now i guess when it happens then you can feel how my family did when they were uprooted. we will take 100% of our land back, from the river to the sea. i hope you realize that when it happens that you brought it upon your selves to move into another mans land illegally.
Watch the hypocrisy! If you don't like being attacked, and you don't - who does? Then really you shouldn't attack others - in any way shape or form. I don't think Hamas is trying to 'destroy' Isreal - I think they are just trying to having a little bit of what is legally and rightfully theirs. Not a big ask.
what is legally theirs? israel? gaza is gaza, they have gaza, they have a government & they have an army. is it israel's fault they choose to buy rockets instead of power stations? ok, so we gave them electricity, couldnt they built factories that does not produce firearms? o.k, so we are sending them aids.
and then they shoot us, and expect us to keep sending them those things?
hypocrisy? attacking someone to make him stop attacking you?
- i'm sorry, but this is not dreamland here, we tried the nice way and asked them "what do you want?" and they replied "you, in the sea". unfortunately we couldnt execute that. so we simply ignored their attacks. after 8 years we got tiered of that, we began blockading, striking back, and eventually, going really nasty (cast lead). guess what? it helped, 2009 was the most quiet year we had for a decade.
kidii, do you recall - were you aware of - multiple warnings against the unilateral Gaza withdrawal? Hamas would exploit the power vacuum Sharon was warned and win advantage. Lo and behold, that is exactly what they did. Of course, there are those who say that is what Sharon wanted. Not a unified Palestinian polity under the PA, he wanted internal rivalry. It was Israel who, after the Sinai peace with Egypt, who nurtured Hamas's predecessors - Sheikh Yassin and the IUG - after all. (cont/...)
(cont/...) The Gaza withdrawal was not a peace move - though I accept you may have seen it as such. Sharon's sidekick, Dov Weisglas, gave the game away when he said it was a response to pilots of the IDF publishing a letter saying they would not serve in the POTs, that the Gaza withdrawal was designed to put the peace process into the "deep freeze", or "formaldehyde" for a generation. Poor generation of Israelis & Palestinians that must suffer the damned consequences of this.
you can claim that israel's government plan was to bring hamas to power, but that's just another conspiracy, maybe sharon believed the palastinians will be smart enough not to elect hamas? unfortunately we will never know since he is in coma
israel have no reason to stop the peace process, because if there wont be 2 states for 2 nations there will be 1 state for 2 nations, and we dont want that.
the palastinians had the chance to elect the fatah and rehabilitate gaza, yet they chose war (hamas).
I's not my claim, it is what many people predicted would happen if the unilateral (as opposed to negotiated) withdrawal went ahead. It's not my claim, it's the words of Sharon's sidekick Wiesglas. It's not my claim, it's the documented history of what happened after the Sinai peace by Ami Isheroff.
That Sharon - who never wanted the wall, actually, as it separated some of "Judea & Samaria" or the West Bank from Green Line delineated Israel - wanted to delay the peace process for a generation, as I quoted Wiesglas saying. You want two states, freedom and security for both peoples, as do I, but it does not sound to me as though Sharon did.
i doubt that. simply because i know sharon's opinions.
he simply wanted to allow the palastinians in gaza to have a fresh start. when it seemed that hamas is about to be elected (and not fatah) he tried to do everything to convince the palastinian that hamas will only cause them troubles.
anyway- rather if sharon wanted peace or not, it's the palastinians fault also for electing hamas.
you can blame sharon, but you can't blame israel. this claim is pointless.
How do you reconciie Weisglas's comments with your belief about Sharon's intentions toward Gaza, and with the warnings that unilateral withdrawal was doomed to produce a stronger Hamas?
i still dont understand why the palastinians elected hamas (which means war) after israel gave them lands, and did not elected fatah (which is not the most peaceful organization, but it is better than hamas).
if the palastinians would have called that they want fatah, and not hamas; and yet hamas would have forcefully took over gaza, israel would have involved and stopped hamas. but, the palastinians elected hamas, they called for the destruction of the state that just gave them their land.
This goes to the heart of the problem: the way Israelis and Palestinians see one another. You cannot understand why they might support Hamas, They cannot understand why you are surprised at their anger. I was talking to a Jerusalem based Israeli last night who said that Israelis regard THEMselves as being inside the wall, looking out. That's exactly what the Palestinians see - I think with greater justification but right now that is not the point. (cont/...)
(cont/...) There will be no genuine movement until you are able to see the world as they do, just as they need to understand that Israeli fear of them is deep felt and real.
it doesnt matter, i understand their anger, and i'm afraid of it. anger makes you do things that are not logical, and when you are doing things that are not logical the results of those actions will just make you more angry.
the palastinians just can't get over their anger, they are the cause for their own suffering.
what do you suggest israel should do? open the blockades? sit quietly while dozens of rockets and terror attacks are being launched from hamas? be reasonable.
Ignore the oppression. Ignore the occupation. Meanwhile, the Israeli settlers, with the protection of the Israeli Army can carry on as before, taking more land, more water, more resources. "If you'll just calm down, we might start to negotiate." You are blaming the victim and think THEY are being unreasonable?
I appreciate your kind and interesting questioning, and yes, I agree I wonder why people cannot understand why the Palestinians 'keep attacking Isreal' (which they don't). I think one only needs to look at Isreali Government behaviour. I refer you back to the other points I have made - illegal settlements, apartheid, physical and psychological torment. Oppression often causes conflict.
If the point of the wall is not to grab more land - then why is more land being grabbed? Yes, the illegal settlements are inhuman, I agree, and they are a type of terrorism. All the other acts I have described, which happen (FACT), are acts of 'psychological' terrorism. If violence occurs towards Isreal, it maybe worth asking the simple question 'why'? There are a lot of Isreali people,and many who who live in Isreal who are disgusted by the actions of their government
the question "why" was asked long time ago. but guess what? the wall & the checkpoints are just poor excuses. because the palastinians attacked us before them, in fact, the wall and the checkpoints decreased the number of terror attacks. the palastinians are not attacking us because of the checkpoint not the wall.
i wonder why the world keep asking "why the palastinians attack the israelis" and dont even care "why the israelis put checkpoints everywhere and built a wall?"
When was there last a 'terror attack' on Israel? May I politely remind you that Israel is a nuclear power with an army, air force & navy + billions of dollars of military funding from the US - Palestine has none of those. Operation Cast Lead with the preceding 2 yrs of seige and subsequent of the same, as more 'terror' than a suicide bomber -when was the last one of those anyway? How many Palestinians have died compared to Israelis? Who has unlimited clean water and 100% access to health care?
the last terror attack on israel was 20 minutes ago, (24.3.10 19:48) - 2 Molotovs were thrown on israeli cars by palastinians.
the attack before it was from the same road (443), a civilian car with on a civilian road had 4 terrorists in it who began shooting on IDF base.
so what if israel have all this power? why are you talking about proportions in war casualties? hamas is trying to destroy israel, israel have the right to defend it's citizens and do whatever it takes to stop hamas.
the palastinians could have clean water and health care, if they weren't shooting on the people giving it to them (israel & egypt). the palastinians could get aids of billions, if we only knew they wont use it to buy weapons.
if hamas would have gave up destroying israel, gaza could be now a "viable state".
the blockades are made only because of rockets being fired from gaza.
and they still think shooting rockets will open the blockade.
Good to see that debate is not being censored in the last 48 hrs at least. One can't help wondering if JfJfP's reposting of this video & open forum for debate helped encourage aliyahuk to see sense and not delete fair comment.
kidi1232, if the wall was necessary, why did it have to be built on land of a putative Palestinian state, gathering in several large Israeli settlements - such as Ariel. It's more of a land grab than a security measure, with the route in parts being altered to take account of property prices and not of security or justice.
A gigantic wall seperating two groups of people ... sounds like some kind of apartheid ... ethnic separation. Sounds like South Africa a few years ago, Berlin maybe or even another regime which tried some 'ethnic' cleansing. Where do the Palestinians come in all this? Is their land not being illegally settled upon?
A gigantic wall seperating two groups of people ... sounds like some kind of apartheid ... ethnic separation. Sounds like South Africa a few years ago, Berlin maybe or even another regime which tried some 'ethnic' cleansing. Where do the Palestinians come in all this? Is their land not being illegally settled upon?
you are wrong. the wall is not separating 2 groups of people. there are palastinians in both sides of the wall, and there are jews in both sides of the wall.
the wall (which is more a fence than a wall, only 1/8 of it is a wall) is a security wall. since it was built, the terror attacks in israel have been dramatically decreased.
i hope once the aggression will calm, the palastinians will have a state and they will accept israel, that wall will not be necessary.
There are no Jews (Jews or Israelis? Are we talking religion, ethnicity or citizenship?) on the Palestine side of the wall except in illegal settlements in occupied territory. The only Palestinians onthe Israeli side have (hard toget) permits. The wall doesn't follow the '67 greenline or the '48 UN border. It's 10m high in populated places and is in the faces of Palestinians. Checkpoints are inhumane -documented by Machsom Watch. Read 'Breaking the Silence'..... I've seen it all myself.
the checkpoint are inhuman? the terror attacks are inhuman! if it takes a security check to everyone crossing into israel to make sure israel is safe than it should be it.
the fence is a wall when there snipers risks.
the point of the wall is not to grab any more land, it is to make sure that whatever comes out of plastinian areas goes through a security check.
about the settlements - you are right, they are illegal, but there are also many palastinian illegal buildings in israel.
the wall is (hopefully) not there for ever, it will be either moved or destroyed according to the security situation, right now, the wall is surrounding the A, B areas according to Oslo agreement israel have both military and governmental control on area C.
macksom watch is a ridicules organization, the security blocks and checks are vital to the security of israel.
You cant get away with that kidi. Though I do appreciate your point that you hope the wall will one day be unnecessary, the wall/fence (yes it is both) separates villages form their farmlands, children from their schools and families from one another. That in itself indicates it is built in the wrong place - had it been on the Green Line, none of that would be the case. and the majority of checkpoints are WITHIN the West Bank, not on the Green Line or the route of the wall.
the wall is built according to Oslo agreements, which are more correct than the green line (which was made in 1948, while Oslo agreements were signed in the 90's by both israel and the PLO.
the checkpoints are in the borders between areas A & B, and A & C. since the IDF have control on both areas B & C according to Oslo.
about separating framers from their fields etc., the wall was built in 2002, yet the PLO have done nothing to suit the Infrastructures to the situation.
More recent = more correct? The 1948 line - actually I think it is the 1949 armstice line - has some relevance and diplomatic acceptance, while the Barrier is as illegal as the settlements themselves. The wall was begun in 2002 and is continuing to be built today. If the IDF ignores the rulings of the Israeli Supreme Court for 2-3 years before it begins to re route parts already built, what hope can the PA have to "suit the infrastructures"?
kidi, Oslo was an interim agreement - borders was one of the issues to be discussed. Areas A, B and C do not constitute borders, just who has responsibility under the Oslo Accords. Is the wall the de facto border of a future state in your opinion? I think you will find very few people who think that is a viable proposition. I agree some people would like that, but they are actually undermining the possibility of a two state solution by doing so - it has to be a viable state, not a patchwork.
yes, oslo is not the border, but it's a temporary solution to the security problems.
right now, the wall is necessary for israel's security. i hope one day our security will be ensured and we will have no need for that wall.
look at gaza, it could have been a viable state, yet they chose to built an army before economy, to build rockets instead of factories, and to buy ammunition instead of food. they brought their own destiny, i hope the palastinians in the west bank have learned from that.
Thanks kidi - so Oslo is not the border, so the wall being built along it does not give it any legitimacy. Gaza could never be viable as long as Israel blockades it, nor could it be viable on its own, especially not when Israel breaks the Paris Protocols (an adjunct of the Oslo accords) on things like fishing limits.
the wall is legal because it's not a border, it's a security device, that goes according to the Oslo agreements - israel have governmental & military control over area C, therefore it have the right to build a security wall to make sure no weapons are being smuggled into area C or israel.
It's illegal according to every definition of international law by which it has been assessed, most obviously the ICJ at The Hague in 2004. The Oslo Accords, unsatisfactory as they were in terms of achieving a long term just solution for Israelis and Palestinians were mutually agreed. The barrier was a unilateral action on the part of the Israelis. By the way, can I ask: are you certain about how closely they follow the Area C borders? Can you let me know where you got this info from? Thanks.
like i said, the wall is not a border or a permanent solution, it's a security tool, which we have to use to keep israel safe, at least until the negotiation will assure israel's safety.
That is interesting .. some of teh comments that were here last night have gone. I wonder why. Are the Isreali's not open and honest enough to leave the truthful facts about the Palestinians here for others to read. Remember all people want is for peopel to be kind nice and tolerant of each other. It should be easy.
This looks ideallic, a bit like a white person arriving in South Africa 25 years ago. Let's not forget the Pallestinians who have been removed from their houses, olive trees cut down, grape vines poisoned, and there land settled on illegally by Isreli's who are reaching their destination.
Not to like also burst anyones bubble or anything, but can i point out, that whilst driving, they drive through a Biology Labratory, a beach, a Bar, an Office, an opera house, i mean Jeez, they could've run over someone, not a good first start to a new life in Israel, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yoyoboom, sorry if you're not Jewish you are not welcome because you are a demographic threat to the national character of the Jewish State. If that's not racists I don't know what is... Israel is expelling Filipino & other migrant workers including their children born in Israel who speak fluent Hebrew and nothing else. Unfortunately Filipinos are Christians.
I feel so sad... this video makes me so miserable. I wish with all my heart to call Israel my home one day. I am so tired to feel like nobody want's me. The only thing I wish years now is to have a place to put my books and know home is there...
jbkm22 3 weeks ago
what a propaganda commercial making this looking greater than what it is, like everybody greets u like ur in heaven? bull****
vaglordupa 9 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
its not their home... its MY home. when the time comes they will have to return to england while i take my place in palestine back.
it pains me that families move here thinking its their home... but now i guess when it happens then you can feel how my family did when they were uprooted. we will take 100% of our land back, from the river to the sea. i hope you realize that when it happens that you brought it upon your selves to move into another mans land illegally.
scarab088 1 year ago
@scarab088 We'll make sure it doesn't happen.
cpeigney94 1 year ago
i wanna go 2 israel.....................NOW!!!!!
sternburger4ever 1 year ago 2
Watch the hypocrisy! If you don't like being attacked, and you don't - who does? Then really you shouldn't attack others - in any way shape or form. I don't think Hamas is trying to 'destroy' Isreal - I think they are just trying to having a little bit of what is legally and rightfully theirs. Not a big ask.
richetal65 2 years ago
@richetal65
what is legally theirs? israel? gaza is gaza, they have gaza, they have a government & they have an army. is it israel's fault they choose to buy rockets instead of power stations? ok, so we gave them electricity, couldnt they built factories that does not produce firearms? o.k, so we are sending them aids.
and then they shoot us, and expect us to keep sending them those things?
hypocrisy? attacking someone to make him stop attacking you?
kidi1232 2 years ago
@richetal65
- i'm sorry, but this is not dreamland here, we tried the nice way and asked them "what do you want?" and they replied "you, in the sea". unfortunately we couldnt execute that. so we simply ignored their attacks. after 8 years we got tiered of that, we began blockading, striking back, and eventually, going really nasty (cast lead). guess what? it helped, 2009 was the most quiet year we had for a decade.
kidi1232 2 years ago
kidii, do you recall - were you aware of - multiple warnings against the unilateral Gaza withdrawal? Hamas would exploit the power vacuum Sharon was warned and win advantage. Lo and behold, that is exactly what they did. Of course, there are those who say that is what Sharon wanted. Not a unified Palestinian polity under the PA, he wanted internal rivalry. It was Israel who, after the Sinai peace with Egypt, who nurtured Hamas's predecessors - Sheikh Yassin and the IUG - after all. (cont/...)
bbmarble 2 years ago
(cont/...) The Gaza withdrawal was not a peace move - though I accept you may have seen it as such. Sharon's sidekick, Dov Weisglas, gave the game away when he said it was a response to pilots of the IDF publishing a letter saying they would not serve in the POTs, that the Gaza withdrawal was designed to put the peace process into the "deep freeze", or "formaldehyde" for a generation. Poor generation of Israelis & Palestinians that must suffer the damned consequences of this.
bbmarble 2 years ago
you can claim that israel's government plan was to bring hamas to power, but that's just another conspiracy, maybe sharon believed the palastinians will be smart enough not to elect hamas? unfortunately we will never know since he is in coma
israel have no reason to stop the peace process, because if there wont be 2 states for 2 nations there will be 1 state for 2 nations, and we dont want that.
the palastinians had the chance to elect the fatah and rehabilitate gaza, yet they chose war (hamas).
kidi1232 2 years ago
I's not my claim, it is what many people predicted would happen if the unilateral (as opposed to negotiated) withdrawal went ahead. It's not my claim, it's the words of Sharon's sidekick Wiesglas. It's not my claim, it's the documented history of what happened after the Sinai peace by Ami Isheroff.
bbmarble 2 years ago
than what is your claim? that sharon wanted a war? that israel want's to keep the current situation in gaza?
kidi1232 2 years ago
That Sharon - who never wanted the wall, actually, as it separated some of "Judea & Samaria" or the West Bank from Green Line delineated Israel - wanted to delay the peace process for a generation, as I quoted Wiesglas saying. You want two states, freedom and security for both peoples, as do I, but it does not sound to me as though Sharon did.
bbmarble 2 years ago
i doubt that. simply because i know sharon's opinions.
he simply wanted to allow the palastinians in gaza to have a fresh start. when it seemed that hamas is about to be elected (and not fatah) he tried to do everything to convince the palastinian that hamas will only cause them troubles.
anyway- rather if sharon wanted peace or not, it's the palastinians fault also for electing hamas.
you can blame sharon, but you can't blame israel. this claim is pointless.
kidi1232 2 years ago
How do you reconciie Weisglas's comments with your belief about Sharon's intentions toward Gaza, and with the warnings that unilateral withdrawal was doomed to produce a stronger Hamas?
bbmarble 2 years ago
i still dont understand why the palastinians elected hamas (which means war) after israel gave them lands, and did not elected fatah (which is not the most peaceful organization, but it is better than hamas).
if the palastinians would have called that they want fatah, and not hamas; and yet hamas would have forcefully took over gaza, israel would have involved and stopped hamas. but, the palastinians elected hamas, they called for the destruction of the state that just gave them their land.
kidi1232 2 years ago
This goes to the heart of the problem: the way Israelis and Palestinians see one another. You cannot understand why they might support Hamas, They cannot understand why you are surprised at their anger. I was talking to a Jerusalem based Israeli last night who said that Israelis regard THEMselves as being inside the wall, looking out. That's exactly what the Palestinians see - I think with greater justification but right now that is not the point. (cont/...)
bbmarble 2 years ago
(cont/...) There will be no genuine movement until you are able to see the world as they do, just as they need to understand that Israeli fear of them is deep felt and real.
bbmarble 2 years ago
it doesnt matter, i understand their anger, and i'm afraid of it. anger makes you do things that are not logical, and when you are doing things that are not logical the results of those actions will just make you more angry.
the palastinians just can't get over their anger, they are the cause for their own suffering.
what do you suggest israel should do? open the blockades? sit quietly while dozens of rockets and terror attacks are being launched from hamas? be reasonable.
kidi1232 2 years ago
Comment removed
bbmarble 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ignore the oppression. Ignore the occupation. Meanwhile, the Israeli settlers, with the protection of the Israeli Army can carry on as before, taking more land, more water, more resources. "If you'll just calm down, we might start to negotiate." You are blaming the victim and think THEY are being unreasonable?
bbmarble 2 years ago
I appreciate your kind and interesting questioning, and yes, I agree I wonder why people cannot understand why the Palestinians 'keep attacking Isreal' (which they don't). I think one only needs to look at Isreali Government behaviour. I refer you back to the other points I have made - illegal settlements, apartheid, physical and psychological torment. Oppression often causes conflict.
richetal65 2 years ago
If the point of the wall is not to grab more land - then why is more land being grabbed? Yes, the illegal settlements are inhuman, I agree, and they are a type of terrorism. All the other acts I have described, which happen (FACT), are acts of 'psychological' terrorism. If violence occurs towards Isreal, it maybe worth asking the simple question 'why'? There are a lot of Isreali people,and many who who live in Isreal who are disgusted by the actions of their government
richetal65 2 years ago
@richetal65
the question "why" was asked long time ago. but guess what? the wall & the checkpoints are just poor excuses. because the palastinians attacked us before them, in fact, the wall and the checkpoints decreased the number of terror attacks. the palastinians are not attacking us because of the checkpoint not the wall.
i wonder why the world keep asking "why the palastinians attack the israelis" and dont even care "why the israelis put checkpoints everywhere and built a wall?"
kidi1232 2 years ago
When was there last a 'terror attack' on Israel? May I politely remind you that Israel is a nuclear power with an army, air force & navy + billions of dollars of military funding from the US - Palestine has none of those. Operation Cast Lead with the preceding 2 yrs of seige and subsequent of the same, as more 'terror' than a suicide bomber -when was the last one of those anyway? How many Palestinians have died compared to Israelis? Who has unlimited clean water and 100% access to health care?
richetal65 2 years ago
@richetal65
the last terror attack on israel was 20 minutes ago, (24.3.10 19:48) - 2 Molotovs were thrown on israeli cars by palastinians.
the attack before it was from the same road (443), a civilian car with on a civilian road had 4 terrorists in it who began shooting on IDF base.
so what if israel have all this power? why are you talking about proportions in war casualties? hamas is trying to destroy israel, israel have the right to defend it's citizens and do whatever it takes to stop hamas.
kidi1232 2 years ago
@richetal65
the palastinians could have clean water and health care, if they weren't shooting on the people giving it to them (israel & egypt). the palastinians could get aids of billions, if we only knew they wont use it to buy weapons.
if hamas would have gave up destroying israel, gaza could be now a "viable state".
the blockades are made only because of rockets being fired from gaza.
and they still think shooting rockets will open the blockade.
kidi1232 2 years ago
jfjfp[dot]com/?p=10739
bbmarble 2 years ago
Good to see that debate is not being censored in the last 48 hrs at least. One can't help wondering if JfJfP's reposting of this video & open forum for debate helped encourage aliyahuk to see sense and not delete fair comment.
bbmarble 2 years ago
kidi1232, if the wall was necessary, why did it have to be built on land of a putative Palestinian state, gathering in several large Israeli settlements - such as Ariel. It's more of a land grab than a security measure, with the route in parts being altered to take account of property prices and not of security or justice.
bbmarble 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A gigantic wall seperating two groups of people ... sounds like some kind of apartheid ... ethnic separation. Sounds like South Africa a few years ago, Berlin maybe or even another regime which tried some 'ethnic' cleansing. Where do the Palestinians come in all this? Is their land not being illegally settled upon?
richetal65 2 years ago
A gigantic wall seperating two groups of people ... sounds like some kind of apartheid ... ethnic separation. Sounds like South Africa a few years ago, Berlin maybe or even another regime which tried some 'ethnic' cleansing. Where do the Palestinians come in all this? Is their land not being illegally settled upon?
richetal65 2 years ago
@richetal65
you are wrong. the wall is not separating 2 groups of people. there are palastinians in both sides of the wall, and there are jews in both sides of the wall.
the wall (which is more a fence than a wall, only 1/8 of it is a wall) is a security wall. since it was built, the terror attacks in israel have been dramatically decreased.
i hope once the aggression will calm, the palastinians will have a state and they will accept israel, that wall will not be necessary.
kidi1232 2 years ago
Comment removed
bbmarble 2 years ago
There are no Jews (Jews or Israelis? Are we talking religion, ethnicity or citizenship?) on the Palestine side of the wall except in illegal settlements in occupied territory. The only Palestinians onthe Israeli side have (hard toget) permits. The wall doesn't follow the '67 greenline or the '48 UN border. It's 10m high in populated places and is in the faces of Palestinians. Checkpoints are inhumane -documented by Machsom Watch. Read 'Breaking the Silence'..... I've seen it all myself.
richetal65 2 years ago
the checkpoint are inhuman? the terror attacks are inhuman! if it takes a security check to everyone crossing into israel to make sure israel is safe than it should be it.
the fence is a wall when there snipers risks.
the point of the wall is not to grab any more land, it is to make sure that whatever comes out of plastinian areas goes through a security check.
kidi1232 2 years ago
about the settlements - you are right, they are illegal, but there are also many palastinian illegal buildings in israel.
the wall is (hopefully) not there for ever, it will be either moved or destroyed according to the security situation, right now, the wall is surrounding the A, B areas according to Oslo agreement israel have both military and governmental control on area C.
macksom watch is a ridicules organization, the security blocks and checks are vital to the security of israel.
kidi1232 2 years ago
You cant get away with that kidi. Though I do appreciate your point that you hope the wall will one day be unnecessary, the wall/fence (yes it is both) separates villages form their farmlands, children from their schools and families from one another. That in itself indicates it is built in the wrong place - had it been on the Green Line, none of that would be the case. and the majority of checkpoints are WITHIN the West Bank, not on the Green Line or the route of the wall.
bbmarble 2 years ago
the wall is built according to Oslo agreements, which are more correct than the green line (which was made in 1948, while Oslo agreements were signed in the 90's by both israel and the PLO.
the checkpoints are in the borders between areas A & B, and A & C. since the IDF have control on both areas B & C according to Oslo.
about separating framers from their fields etc., the wall was built in 2002, yet the PLO have done nothing to suit the Infrastructures to the situation.
kidi1232 2 years ago
More recent = more correct? The 1948 line - actually I think it is the 1949 armstice line - has some relevance and diplomatic acceptance, while the Barrier is as illegal as the settlements themselves. The wall was begun in 2002 and is continuing to be built today. If the IDF ignores the rulings of the Israeli Supreme Court for 2-3 years before it begins to re route parts already built, what hope can the PA have to "suit the infrastructures"?
bbmarble 2 years ago
yes, if the PLO accepted Oslo they can't claim back to 1949 borders.
and what have the PLO done during the 5-6 years that israel legally built the wall according to supreme court?
kidi1232 2 years ago
kidi, Oslo was an interim agreement - borders was one of the issues to be discussed. Areas A, B and C do not constitute borders, just who has responsibility under the Oslo Accords. Is the wall the de facto border of a future state in your opinion? I think you will find very few people who think that is a viable proposition. I agree some people would like that, but they are actually undermining the possibility of a two state solution by doing so - it has to be a viable state, not a patchwork.
bbmarble 2 years ago
yes, oslo is not the border, but it's a temporary solution to the security problems.
right now, the wall is necessary for israel's security. i hope one day our security will be ensured and we will have no need for that wall.
look at gaza, it could have been a viable state, yet they chose to built an army before economy, to build rockets instead of factories, and to buy ammunition instead of food. they brought their own destiny, i hope the palastinians in the west bank have learned from that.
kidi1232 2 years ago
Thanks kidi - so Oslo is not the border, so the wall being built along it does not give it any legitimacy. Gaza could never be viable as long as Israel blockades it, nor could it be viable on its own, especially not when Israel breaks the Paris Protocols (an adjunct of the Oslo accords) on things like fishing limits.
bbmarble 2 years ago
@bbmarble
the wall is legal because it's not a border, it's a security device, that goes according to the Oslo agreements - israel have governmental & military control over area C, therefore it have the right to build a security wall to make sure no weapons are being smuggled into area C or israel.
kidi1232 2 years ago
It's illegal according to every definition of international law by which it has been assessed, most obviously the ICJ at The Hague in 2004. The Oslo Accords, unsatisfactory as they were in terms of achieving a long term just solution for Israelis and Palestinians were mutually agreed. The barrier was a unilateral action on the part of the Israelis. By the way, can I ask: are you certain about how closely they follow the Area C borders? Can you let me know where you got this info from? Thanks.
bbmarble 2 years ago
@bbmarble
securityfence~mod~gov~il / Pages / Heb / map_heb~htm
a map from april 2007
purple lines - fence.
pink lines - planned path (probably already built by now)
yellow in gray outlines - wall
orange - road protection
pale yellow areas - area B
purple areas - area A
kidi1232 2 years ago
@richetal65
like i said, the wall is not a border or a permanent solution, it's a security tool, which we have to use to keep israel safe, at least until the negotiation will assure israel's safety.
kidi1232 2 years ago
That is interesting .. some of teh comments that were here last night have gone. I wonder why. Are the Isreali's not open and honest enough to leave the truthful facts about the Palestinians here for others to read. Remember all people want is for peopel to be kind nice and tolerant of each other. It should be easy.
richetal65 2 years ago
This looks ideallic, a bit like a white person arriving in South Africa 25 years ago. Let's not forget the Pallestinians who have been removed from their houses, olive trees cut down, grape vines poisoned, and there land settled on illegally by Isreli's who are reaching their destination.
richetal65 2 years ago
ehehe. kind of cool video. and good luck
Inazui 2 years ago
Not to like also burst anyones bubble or anything, but can i point out, that whilst driving, they drive through a Biology Labratory, a beach, a Bar, an Office, an opera house, i mean Jeez, they could've run over someone, not a good first start to a new life in Israel, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
עם ישראל חיייי!!!!
uclarge 2 years ago
OMG! that's so cool!
Welcome to Israel and to Ra'anana:)
InbarIsrael 2 years ago
Saw this at the Zionist gig, was SO funny and stupid.
love the idea though
uclarge 2 years ago
Yes I have inexplicable urge to make aliya
although I'm not sure what it is as I'm not Jewish.
yoyoboom 2 years ago
Yoyoboom, sorry if you're not Jewish you are not welcome because you are a demographic threat to the national character of the Jewish State. If that's not racists I don't know what is... Israel is expelling Filipino & other migrant workers including their children born in Israel who speak fluent Hebrew and nothing else. Unfortunately Filipinos are Christians.
hlim431 2 years ago
I see it was an entire Luz family affair - well done Aviel - great video - highly entertaining!
naomic2007 2 years ago
Great promo.
ChemdatAB 2 years ago
I was disappointed to see in the credits that their name is not Goldman !
I expected more than you Aviel, we spoke about the ethical issue so many times in the past.
Besides that glitch - great film and good job of Amir.
mahvatshamen 2 years ago
Kol HaKavod, Aviel.
danielmorgenstern 2 years ago
Which country did they go to?
Where were they given a car and home and job?
Seems great
lbigfoot 2 years ago
and don't forget to wear a hat and drink a lot of water!!!
zivlazar 2 years ago
Hilarious - I'm sure your aliya will be just like this!
vofstein 2 years ago