2:41 Hatch isn't out of touch at all. You forget the two most important factors here: Hatch is Mormon and this is Utah. Mormons are issued a flat 10% tax on all wages (from SS or a job) that are non-negotiable. If members can't pay that, regardless of the situation, the church won't help them. That is where this mentality is coming from. BTW, Romeny's great "donation" to the church (that he played up) wasn't a donation at all. I think this mentality of theirs is crazy.
Well we wouldn't have as much of a welfare state if you actually distributed the money Mr. Senator. Also money wouldn't be as scarce if investors were taxed more, and the minimum wage were raised. Minimum wage should be doubled; I can virtually guarantee that unemployment would drop and then it might be a bit more fair for the poor to pay more taxes until then they shouldn't pay a dime more.
@nasaxSN You are a complete idiot. It is not the federal governments job to redistribute wealth. You want more money go ear it. Double the minimum wage to $14.50 and what the fuck do you think that will do to just the price of a McDonalds cheeseburger alone? Raising the capital gains rate and historically it yields lower tax revenue. Not to it will make it harder for every working stiff in America to save for retirement.
@nasaxSN A dime more? 47% or wage earners don’t pay shit and 24% of that group are net tax consumers. Furthermore 95% of the “poor” are so because they refuse to alter those behaviors that insure their poverty.
Senator Hatch - You are the most evil, vile and disgusting human being i've ever known. You should BE FORCED to experence what life is like for the poorest of Americans. There is no torture painfull enough that could be inflicted upon you to atone for your crimes against the poor.
Why would any American be entitled to NOT pay their fair share of taxes in America? Americas "poor" are NOT poor by the rest of the world's standards. The IRS reports that over 49% of Americans do not pay any federal taxes. They to need to have skin in the game if they enjoy the reward of living here.
Dude, its a crazy day when I agree with the Young Turks, but orrin Hatch is out of his mind on so many issues, I just wish the Utahns would put us out of our misery and elect someone else. he has been back there for 36 years and voted to increase the debt ceiling 16 times, voted for the Patriot Act, and co sponsored SCHIP and the Dream ACT.
Orrin Hatch is out of touch with liberal, he is out of touch with conservatives, he is just plain out of touch with humanity. They guy has been in DC for 36 years....How long is long enough Orrin.
I actually agree with Hatch on the taxes. Every one should pay an equal percentage. However, when they say "we've got to work together" it means "you vote for my bill and i'll vote for your bill". F these politicians!
As a citizen of Utah I am ashamed of Hatch. He is a corrupt man who has a lovely record of taking bribes (Such as $5,000 from BP) and is a two face. Time for some Deseret justice.
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im a driver i make 300 a week i look at the bottom all kind of tax fed ssc medcare local state all kind of tax general electric pay 0 % tax while dumping cancer causing element in to hudson river nbc cnn cbs never said anyihtng
Th9is is what pushed me to vote fI would. This when not Sen Hatch doing a haqtchet job on the poor but rather when Sen McCain said the exact same thing-people who make less than 50 k do not pay taxes. Now, that is wrong-many do pay taxes and the credits come tax time is where they get tis from despite the time value of money makes these statements false. Also, May 2005, had a prosthetic skull put in on the left side of me head because of Iraq-and still had taxes withdrawn from my pay
so the poor witch barely gets by paying all the bills should pay more taxes yeap sounds right and the multi billio n corporations should pay less taxes wow i find it amazes how these people have this kind of power
Homeless and Jobless need to pay some more tax too yup.
So where does this Hatch guy get this statistic of 51%?
Well the more you earn the more you should pay in tax and the less you earn you should pay more in tax is what the guy is trying to say, but he probably forgot all man are treated equally (Not everyone follow this like racist) and that this should include the amount of tax paid.
@HanhliFD Am kind of wandering if they count from day one of a new human who does not pay taxes. Once p[eople see this-will be told I am one of those who do not count in these ideals and I ask-what about vietnam vets-am disabled because of fighting a war in Iraq. I lasted all of seven weeks-wounded twice-the last rolling through an IED. Died a few times-practically have PTSD from just being at Walter Reed. I am now retired and do not pay fed taxes. I wander-do I have skin in the game?
Gee, I wish Orin Hatch would get off the government teat and stop taking so many of our California dollars to pay for the cost of running Utah. Then, maybe, I would have an iota of respect for him...then again, no I probably wouldn’t.
@welsh77. Are you serious? You're really using this 2007 report to support your thesis? Have you read it beyond the summary? Do you understand that this is just prior to the economic fallout? Mobility -as defined in this report includes assets which are currently showing their REAL value. During this period you are citing, values of assets were highly inflated. Seriously? How and why are you defending the uber rich and not defending your country's future I do not know. But rhetoric is an a
@ralphinator2 You need to check your math! Right now, YOU are being taxed 18 TIMES! Guys like Robert Kiyosaki pay nearly $0 taxes, and he's NOT a corporation! A wealthy real estate investor in my home town pays nearly $0 taxes and brags about it! My statement and facts are correct. A 10% Flat tax for ALL is absolutely fiscally functional and correct.You need to do allot more research, and take a few College Math classes in finance.Then, put the math to work on large corporations & individuals.
@TheDigitalWeb No, if you will check your own math, then you will realize that 10% is much less than 35%, which is the rate that most wealthy people pay, and 10% is much more than 0%, which is what poor people pay.
The cases you mention are loopholes, and if you say we need to get rid of loopholes, then you will be correct, but flat tax is just dumb.
I'm embarrassed to say that I live in this man's constituency. The theory that giving big businesses tax cuts will lead to creating jobs is absolutely absurd. GE paid no taxes last year, and the only jobs they created were in CHINA.
The rich are NOT paying their fair share relative to the capital they control in this country. The ridiculous thing in all of this is that the top 1% of people have more money than the bottom 95% combined. THAT'S the problem. They don't hire anyone!
I think it's abysmal that 51% of Americans are on such a low income that even Americas draconian plutocratic system has to admit they earn too little to tax.
@welsh77. Also if you would like your opinions to be taken more seriously and debate without the constant ad hominem assaults, I would LOVE to enlighten you on the REAL America. Education doesn't begin and end with stats easily accessed from the Internet and regurgitating what you've heard that day from Limbaugh or Beck.
@Welsh77...I'm afraid you are incorrect sir. I am a sociologist and I DO know exactly what I am talking about. I the wealthy may, indeed pay the federal INCOME tax that you have stated. However, you are completely ignoring the multitude of other taxes they DO pay as consumers on their median $16k income in my state
Mr. Parr, I'm afraid you have some bad information on why the poor are poor. Behavior is certainly NOT the #1 reason for poverty in America. The truth of the matter is that we rarely move out of the social class in which we were born. We may move a little ahead within the ranks of our own class through education and creativity, but NOT from poor to middle class or middle class to rich. Recently, the trends are that we are moving DOWN on the ladder, not up anyway. The stratification between the
@colinsorge that's actually not true at all, and i'd love to see some data that asserts your bullshit statements. the treasury released an income mobility report in 2007 that stated that HALF the people in the lowest income quintile 1996 moved to a higher quintile by 2005. your first line is flat out wrong, and foolish. the poorest 30 million americans were not in this country in 1980, we have 1-1.5 million legal immigrants entering the country every year.
@Welsh77 lies and statistics. The people in the lowest quintile didn't become richer by 2005. The amount of money that determines the edges of the quintiles came down, so the definition of the quintiles moved. It's a fact that average wages have not increased at the same rate as inflation, and a raise that is smaller than inflation is the equivalent of a pay cut.
@ralphinator2 quintiles are based on income, not wages. real wages have been flat over the last 30 years, real incomes have not. in fact real incomes for every level have risen, and that's what quintiles are based on. learn the difference. ill send you the report in a message, you can look at it for yourself and learn the truth, and stop lying to other people.
@ralphinator2 you don't accept messages from non-friends so i couldn't send it to you. but they're not lies at all, its actually totally true. i love how you say "statistics" as if they're a bad thing, grouping them with lies. probably because the statistics probably never agree with you. google 2007 treasury income mobility report
this guy is also simply wrong on the facts. in relative terms the rich are paying much more of the tax burden than ever before. the top 1% paid 15.4% of all federal taxes in 1979, they paid 28.3% of all taxes in 06 according to the CBO. meanwhile the lowest quintile's share of total federal taxes has dropped from 2.1% to 0.8% in the same time period. this politician is making a reasonable point, we have a bunch of people on the take in this country, and its ridiculous.
So in effect, what this scumbag wants is to reform the tax code so that the top 49% that he represents may pay less taxes and keep more money, all the while using his claim that the bottom 51% pay no income tax as justification.
@tripnbilly77 you realize that the top 20% controlled 81% of the wealth in the early 80s, and they control 85% now. at the same time, their share of the TOTAL FEDERAL TAXES PAID has risen from 55% to 69% in the same time period. the lies that the rich aren't paying their fair share are pretty absurd, they're paying more of our tax burden now than ever before, and we have a bunch of people who aren't paying enough or are even taking money out
I'm 17, I am not going to pay my taxes, I am going to declare bankruptcy and collect welfare while having a minimum wage job, shoplifting from stores and spend what money I have on things I want. This is why I love America, because our leaders are destroying everything our founding fathers worked hard on sending us into debt and declaring laws on things we don't vote as a republic.
@MrWhiteRepublican So you think it's a good moral value to start shit w/people who work our fingers to the bone (& we actually do pay our taxes) for practically peanuts? You're probably one of those inconsiderate assholes that has a bumper sticker that says, "Keep working hard, millions on walfare are depending on you" or some other bullshit. Poor people can't help it & the homeless can't help it. Go to church & learn something from your pastor instead of sleeping during his sermons.
@bucky468 Unless you are in the top 49% of wage earners, no, you don’t pay income taxes. The vast majority of the poor and homeless can help it. In times like these there are more people struggling but when times are good and jobs are plentiful 90% of poor people are poor because they are lazy and/or stupid. Get exposed tattoos, “F”d up hair style, dress like you dont care what anyone else thinks, facial piercing, or drop out of school, speak like a moron. And you will be poor.
@MrSteveParr You're a dickhead. You're brains are strictly in your arse. Stop and think before you even say a word. One of these days you'll start shit w/the wrong people & you'll pay the ultimate price. They'll beat you to a bloody pulp until you can no longer breathe. Do you even realize how offensive what you're saying really is? I'm an educated conservative (that's right, conservative) non-Republican. I'm independent on politics. I think both sides are crooks & liars. Know your role & STFU!
@Fonzymazer You must be a teabagger & probably Obama birther. You're also an out-of-touch idiot. Do you really like to start shit w/people especially those who work their asses off & practically make nothing? We're not all libs you know. I sure as hell ain't. I don't like Obama either but it's people like you who give America a bad name. Remember it was these idiots on Wall St & from the banking industry who got us into this mess. And it was a GOP prez who demanded they be bailed out at once.
@Nadrealis Or he's just a dumbass who wants to start shit w/us from the working class. And he forgets that many indy & swing voters come from the middle class & aren't all that wealthy. BTW pal we do pay our taxes. Do you?
This cat is talking about ending the Earned income tax credit? Let me try to explain this..... the money that goes to the poor through this program is immediately put into the economy. Poor people spend this loot on things they need. There is no putting it in the bank and squireling it away. If this cat truely understands anything about small business, he would know that small business wait all year for people to get those checks.
@MrSteveParr I pray to God that someday you get so far in debt that you'll be borrowing from a loan shark & you get to the point where you can't pay it back & you get in deep trouble w/the loan shark then that loan shark's hired muscle breaks every damn bone in your miserable body. You deserve it you uncaring POS!
You defenders of the reckless spenders (that's Wall St btw) & wealthy poor hating people just make me sick. You are scum!
@bucky468 “They'll beat you to a bloody pulp until you can no longer breathe” thanks for proving my point. Personal behavior is the #1 determining factor in an individuals income. BTW, no ever said you have the Right to no be offended. A true conservative would address reality and deal with its as is. I doubt your prayers are heard. God has answered many prayers of mine but none like that.
@bucky468 I don’t care how much money wall street spends. Most of it is not my money and the companies that are acting foolish with bailout money, well I hope that will be a lesson to America and none of them ever get a dime of bailout money ever again. You claim to be a conservative but I see no sign of it. I am not wealth by any stretch of the imagination, I will be lucky to hold onto our house through this depression. I just recognize truth and where to place blame and praise.
@capt251978 Ok. You want to use the old right-wing "stealing someone else's money" talking pont? Part of the deficit reduction plan is to cut social security correct? Where does this money come from? Payroll deductions. That money is put aside by you and me for our future. So how is it not taking other people's money when we are talking about cutting such programs when it is YOUR money YOU put aside? Especialy when it is well funded for the next 36 years?
@capt251978 Its funny that you think 36 years is “well funded”. BTW its probably more in the range of 25 years but that will shorten if we don’t get the economy back on track so that it can live up to the social security trustees assumptions on wage inflation. Also, there is no trust fund, you do know this right?
@MrSteveParr First of all I know that I responded to myself. Just because i'm a super genius doesnt mean i am not mildly retarded. lol. Yes I know we are talking about the tax credit, if you want to get the economy moving the last thing that needs to be done is reduce the purchasing power of the country. Like I said earlier this money that go into the hands of the poor is immediately put back into the economy. Thus creating a stimulus-like effect.
@capt251978 It matters not the effect of the earned income tax credit, wrong is wrong. Its is not the place of the FedGov to redistribute income. My wife and I earned $86K combined last year and carried a total tax liability of $14K the vast majority was paid to the FedGov. So, the people receiving the earned income tax credit were getting my money.
@MrSteveParr Also yes...... 36 years is indeed well funded. In policy terms even 25 years is well funded as well. What do you require to give your stamp of approval?? 100 years? 1000 years?? I understand it is a pay-as -you-go system, that is my entire point. If you pay into social security and get nada in return even though the program is in good shape, does that not equal stealing??? I guess it's ok to take from the poor and working class just not from the "job creators",
@capt251978 “The financial conditions of the Social Security and Medicare programs remain challenging. Projected long-run program costs for both Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable under currently scheduled financing, and will require legislative modifications if disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers are to be avoided.” - Social Security Online 2011 annual report.
@capt251978 The mythical social security trust fund is now at this moment paying out more than it brings in. I say mythical because congress spent all of the excess funds and replaced them with IOUs. The problem with this is that now that SSI runs a deficit they are cashing in the IOUs and the FedGov is broke and has to borrow the money o pay the IOUs which ads to both the national debt and deficit. Yep, social security is doing just fine, nothing to see here, move along.
Wait a minute, I make only 12,000 a year, After rent and bills, I only have 200 bucks left each month for food and other expenses... and I pay my taxes... yet he wants me to give up my tax refunds?
@vguyver2 No, he just doesn’t want you getting money you didn’t earn. That what the earned income tax credit is. It is the government saying “oh you poor little thing. You didn’t make much money so here is all the taxes you paid this year. You can have it all back and here is some free money that we took from someone else, you can have it because you are so pathetic.”
@MrSteveParr Don't be a schmuck, this isn't a country run by Santa Anna where you can just break the people's backs to accommodate a broken system. People work hard for their money, and frankly I'd prefer if I didn't have to life off 200 hundred bucks a month while having to put up with the rampant crime around my area because they decided to cut cops. It's not like our taxation system is broken, it's worked well and honestly for decades but people like you let dirt bag politics ruin lives.
@vguyver2 No, this is a country run by a piece of shit socialist vermin backed by an army or civilian and political myrmidons willing to break the backs of the productive to satisfy the slothful. The shortage of law enforcement in your community is not as big a problem as the lack of law abiding citizens. The income tax was introduced in 1913 and progressives sold to the publics by lying. “You will never have to pay it” “its only on the richest 1%”.
@MrSteveParr The income tax at the time was low, but when did we have the huge tax increases? It was during the Second world war,and then they were continued and even increased during the cold war. Why is it that the cold war is over and yet we still have huge taxes? Especially when we shouldn't have a need for such large military spending. Also, what's wrong with socialism? Many countries with it in Europe are happier and living longer, not to mention often cheaper then getting corp insurance.
@vguyver2 It’s the thought that simply because I do more I owe more. 95% of millionaires in America come from the middle class or lower and 95% of Americas poor have bad decision making skills. Only the elderly and the mentally/physically challenged should get special tax exemptions. Ive been poor and even when I was earning $8K to $12K a year I never filed my income taxes because I knew I would get it all back.
@MrSteveParr yes and when you want to buy a house, you can get fined and screwed by the IRS because you incurred fee's, not wise. I have to go to the IRS and file my taxes pay those fee's from when I could file years ago when I was nearly homeless, so that in later years I don't have to worry a future spouse or children of any financial woes because of the IRS. Also you can't fault the poor for being poor, have you ever entered a mining community? You'd think they were in a third world country.
@vguyver2 I find it unacceptable that another man shoulder my share of the load. After WWII the U.S. and Canada were the only two industrialized nation left whos manufacturing capabilities were not devastated by war. The world has changed. Business and wealth goes where it is made to feel welcome and all a progressive income tax does is to make it harder for people like me to rise above the position I was born into.
@MrSteveParr The idea is that someone isn't leaching off you, but that everyone is acting as a single support plan. It's like a bed of needs, if you only have a portion holding a man up, he'd get stabbed, but spread the weight evenly and hardly any damage will occur. With our industry in the hands of China, and imports too, we need programs like this to guarantee some degree of insurance to the life's of everyday Americans. I think the failure of these programs are due to political tug-a-wars.
@vguyver2 Yes I can blame the poor, well the vast majority of them anyway. I have seen mining communities and I grew up in north Georgia around carpet mills. Ive lived in trailer parks and I go into ghettos to work on utilities. Where I live now, I am surrounded by chicken house and hundreds of independent chicken farmers. The most common thread keeping poor people poor is personal behavior. Its you, sitting around playing video games, which lives in a bubble.
@vguyver2 Why is it we still have huge taxes? Because Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and discretionary spending eat up 61% the federal budget in contrast defense spending accounts for 18% of spending. Of all the categories the only one that congress is constitutionally mandated to provide funding for is defense. But that’s how socialism works. High taxes, high spending and very few nails in the bed.
@MrSteveParr The figures are no longer accurate. You aren't counting the additional packages we've used between congressional sessions to bolster the military spending without it showing up in our normal annualized spending. I assure you, it's much larger. It's been proven that political porkbelly spending, inefficiency, nonessential programs, and it could be lower if we remove insurance companies as the middle man. We can lower it 15% in social programs alone with reforms this year.
@vguyver2 The 150 million people killed by their own socialist governments could tell you why socialism sucks… if they were still alive. The U.S. already has the smallest tax base of any western government. In France a person making E26,000 to E69,000 pays 30% income tax and E70,000+ its 40%. Look at the old Roman democracy. People kept using their voted to put money into their own pockets. The tax base shrunk and social spending went up.
@MrSteveParr I wouldn't count socialist gov, most were despotic. Us smallest, are you kidding? We have one of the heaviest taxed countries in the world according to the GNP rating system, especially when you compare the growth of other countries to us. Wages for Americans as far as inflation goes has been stagnant since the 70's despite the 1990's boom. In fact, current profits by the rich and the disparity of the poor in comparison to typical low wage american worker has reached 1920 levels.
@vguyver2 The government tried taxing everything, even public toilets but it all fell apart. You, like most who see no issue with socialism lie to your selves about your motive. “It’s the best for everyone”, “It’s the best way to fight poverty”. But the truth is, you are all jealous and envious of what other people have. I will remind you of the words of Samuel Addams, or maybe I am introducing you to them.
@MrSteveParr Yes there are flaws, I don't believe in that socialism should be a dominant thing in the US, but we DO need it for some of the messes that our current systems can no longer handle. Universal health care is proven to be a cheaper and more effective form of healthcare, insurance companies want people like you to think they can do it better, but there is research in showcasing that the government socialism can do the same for a mere 3 cents out of a $1, insurance wants 24 cents a $1.
@vguyver2 "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!"
@MrSteveParr Samual Adams? I don't see the point of quoting him since I'm talking about stopping the unfair taxation of the poor and middle class in comparison to the Rich. Ahem... Mitt Romney's tax percentage when compared to many middle class families.
@vguyver2 No, of course you wouldn’t. BTW, the vast majority of people who derive income from interest first earned the money they invested by working for it and paying income tax on their earnings. Plus, elevating the tax rate on interest will only make it harder for the middle class to save for retirement. Ahem!
@MrSteveParr How would it make it more difficult to save for retirement? More money retained in their income means more they can save (or spend) but that really isn't the point. You think that by increasing taxes we could put more in our Medicare and Social Security (something you don't support Steve since they are Socialist programs). Not the case since the rate of national GNP and other financial corners aren't keeping up. Reforms are needed to correct those problems, not higher taxes.
@MrSteveParr Look if you want to quote someone, then you should quote Alexander Hamilton. "In the main it will be found that a power over a man's support (salary) is a power over his will." Tell me how those 1% in Americans who control the rest of the wealth of the other 99% of Americans be not at fault for some of the policies in government? They are the most ACTIVE members of politics when compared to the rest of the class, and it's because they pay lobbyists to fight in their interests.
@MrSteveParr You don't think poor people try to change things? You don't think any of them are smart? The masses aren't stupid, maybe manipulated easily, but not stupid. They are dependent on companies owned by the rich, government influenced by the rich, and parties financed by the rich. You are telling me that none of this factors into why people are poor. Open your eyes, we are all fighting a finance machine & loosing! You think things would be the same if every politician had equal airtime?
There is this story in the bible about a poor widow who is criticized by rich people in his community for only giving 2 coins while the rich gives a lot more. Jesus spoke out and said that the poor has given all that he has for others while the rich men only gave a portion of their wealth
i am 57 i live week to week on my pay i have a house and car i had to pay in incom tax( this year was the highest i had to pay all most 3 time more the last year ) i may lose my home its been going down hill since
i had to borrow money to pay the government (my incom is way under 100ts.)
If anyone cares to remember, it was the mostly the Republicans who voted to go into the war with Iraq...
h t t p : / / en [dot] wikipedia [dot] org / wiki / Iraq_Resolution
This war, that *they* voted to start, has lasted over 10 years now - and has all but bankrupted this nation! (And we're *still* spending millions of dollars *a day* on this thing!)
If we truly want to cut our deficit/debts - for starters, they need to get us out of this war that they started!
@GhostGal5 Expensive yes, but still less than the stimulus, resulting in the first democratic arab government and 30 million free Iraqis. And where did all that military money go? American soldiers pay, American weapon and ordinance suppliers, American shipbuilders, American aircraft companies, but most of it are costs we would be paying for a military not doing anything.
on another country, that *supposedly* had weapons of mass destruction - but ended up not having a such a thing after all! (Tell me which is worse - giving money to those who really need it, who have lost their jobs and/or their house - or using that very same money, which the people here at home could be using, to fight a war in a far away country!)
And free Iraqis? Brother, have you not really been listening to the news lately?! Have you not heard the newest concerns?...That once we leave...
Iraq, that there are fears that Al-Qaeda will come back in and take back over. (And realistically, nothing could be done to stop this - unless we want to keep our men and women over there, for the rest of their lives, to ensure that Al-Qaeda never returns in full-force!)
And you talk about giving all of this money towards the war - which is great & all, but how does it help the men, women, and children here at home....who have lost their jobs, possibly their homes, & struggling to survive?
@GhostGal5 The likes of you will never change. Tax the rich feed the poor, tax the rich till they're rich no more... homeless guys I see on the street that tell me they can't find a job -I tell them 'who the hell would hire you? or can't find a job -start a business -then you'll find out what real work is. My neighbor started a machine shop with a vise and a file. I haven't said one false thing and you have just given BS in return. I hope someday you'll figure it out.
@salvor1 - You see, *that* is your problem. (You seem very self-centered, snobbish, & uncaring about your fellow man - just like Orrin Hatch and the Republicans are! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised you were Orrin Hatch - I'm sure he'd say the same damb thing that you just said to a homeless man.)
Tell me, would you like to say that to the homeless children - that live across the street from the Gateway, at The Road Home! (Look into their eyes and faces - & tell them the same thing! I dare u!)
Salvor - It's because of *you* and people like you who give this country a bad name & have made the poor-arse decisions that have put this country, and it's people, in jeopardy! (I feel very sorry for you actually, because you obviously can't see beyond your own nose - which is pointed straight up in the air!)
If you were in your right mind, you would know that "starting a business" in next to impossible right now - especially considering the fact that the economy is doing so bad off...
& so many business are still going *OUT* of business, even to this day! (So, to even suggest such a thing really boggles my mind, as to how your thought-processes work! Obviously, like Orrin Hatch, you live in your own little dream world, where the realities of life haven't caught up with you yet. Such a shame really - that some people can be so d*mb blind!)
I'll give you some advice here: treat your fellow man the way you would want to be treated...Because, one day, you may be in *his* shoes!
@GhostGal5 What is the last thing Mr. Hatch says in this video? Go back and listen to it. I suppose you give those people money to buy food for the day. Don't you see THAT is the problem?? When they eat today they are right back on the street tomorrow. YOU KEEP THEM THERE.
@salvor1 - Yeah, and listen to what Micheal Shure says at the very beginning of the video too! (People are *STRUGGLING* to pay the bills, feed and clothe their children, pay for their mortgages - all the while, people's jobs are being taken out from underneath them, it's still harder than hell to find a job, etc etc)...Obviously, you're not catching onto this message - otherwise, you would realize that what Orrin Hatch is suggesting at this point & time is not realistically possible!
Your comment/idea about giving struggling food - yes, I say give it to them! You give what you have - after all, isn't this what Our Creator told us to do? You just don't leave people like that on the side of the street or in the dump - their HUMAN BEINGS, for G*d's sake! Not animals - not trash, that you just just dispose of if/when you feel like it! (What if they have children, what if they're taking care of their elderly mother and/or father - are you just going to tell them, "Up yours"?!?)
@GhostGal5 As I said -if you feed them today they will be hungry on the street tomorrow. Everyone not giving them anything forces them to seek help in our social structures (which our taxes pay for and I support ) to feed, house and train them into supporting themselves. Don't give them the choice to 'eat today'. The ones who won't seek help are a problem and have to fend for themselves -but that's no ones problem but theirs.
@GhostGal5 My business is failing. If my healthcare goes up another inch I'm going to have to drop it (thanks Obama). A great biz opportunity to jump into now is a board up service for bank foreclosures. Let's see I'll need a hammer and a saw, -that's rough. The lord helps those who help themselves- it works both ways.
@salvor1 - Also about your comment on taxing the rich, until they have nothing left...You know that will never happen. The rich will always find a way to hold onto their money - that's just the way it is & will always be. And that's fine...But what needs to happen, if you really want to see change in this world, is not allow greed to overtake everything!....You want to see more poor people work & make a difference in their communities?...Make education - good education - more affordable for ALL!
@GhostGal5 Exactly -government, union, insurance AND personal greed creates overpriced cars, products and buildings and chases businesses overseas. All four of them -not JUST the last. Government involvement in business NEVER lowers long term costs. There are also greedy attitudes -corporate boards caring more about bottom lines (which insures the company and employee job survival) than much else AND the greedy attitudes of people that think the above are a bunch of criminals. Both are not good.
@GhostGal5 3.5 trillion estimated by 'the commitee' ?? WHO?? BY WHEN ? -2017??? and reported by CNN???. Come on -am I quoting fox news? You'd laugh at me.
The prophet Murdock works hard to deliver the lords will thru Fox news. the poor, the working class and the middle class...we were all placed in america to make life cushy for the God blessed extremely wealthy. Its not that theyre greedy...they are simply doing the will of god..
when they cut our healthcare, lower wages, force us to compete with foreign slave labor, when they mock the poor and infirm...when they attack public schools, teachers cops,unions...all conservatives wking for good.
This is a free country...the pp who are smart enough to know how to exploit the working and middle classes...they deserve to be fully subsidized by our taxes. I feel ashamed that I dont make enough money to give them even more of my taxes....so I can continue to subsidize their failures.. How else will the FREE MARKET survive if we dont all do our part in covering their billions in losses?
@barbcinque - Ha ha ha! Very funny barbcinque! (I'm sure that's *exactly* how the Republicans and other corrupt politicians would love us all to think and act!) ;-)
You forgot one thing: Long live the ideas greed, selfishness, and not caring about your people and/or your country! :-P !!!!!!!
Interesting... he believes the bottom 51% isn't paying enough. I know that the gap between rich and poor is increasing and most politicians have disconnect themselves and this is a great example.
@kirabook OK, you need to straightened out right now. The top 1% of wage earners pay 45% of all income taxes collected. The top 10% pays 70%. The lower 47% pay no fed income taxes AT ALL. Look around you at the bridges, expressways, federal protections (military, food and drug safety, airline safety, care of the old and disabled etc, etc) 70% of that paid by the upper 10%. You should thank them.
What? Are you expecting people that have no money to pay money they don't have? What is more dept going to do for this country? Nothing. If America wants to continue to be what is is today, some of the bigger companies that literal got away with millions recently need to pay it back. Upper class 'can't handle, middle class can't handle it, and poor class will never be able to handle it. I don't know why people are expecting something from literally POOR PEOPLE.
@kirabook I'm not saying raise taxes. I'm not saying go further into debt. (it's spelled d e b t ). I'm not saying cut services to those who need it. I'm saying cut other spending -Reduce payments to Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, Africa and all the rest, reduce defense spending, 90% of homeland security money is a total waste, reduce entitlements by 10% -I'm sorry, the poor can live on 90% of what they got -I'm living on about 30% of the money my company used to make.
Oh yes, excuse my spelling error, I spell that wrong often.
Anyway, That would be fantastic, but thus far, that is not what they're wanting to do. They do want to cut all the benefits, calling poor and many unfortunate people they need to pay more. They can barely live at all. Most recently trying their hardest to get rid of medicare and social security, and that's just ridiculous.
My mom who is an excellent teacher... well, you know what's happening to education I'm sure.
@kirabook That's what the repubs are talking about. Geez -everyone thinks they're all SO EVIL. They're just TRYING TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK. When you reduce a wealthy persons income -he doesn't have money to buy houses, cars, services or investments (all job creators). Trickle down does work when there is stability. When they are threatened with tax increases of course they are not going to invest in multi year projects they may not have money for.
But you can't bust things that people have spent their entire lives paying for and use it for something else. Why no actually cut all the unneeded things like what's currently being used for the military and all the oversea conflicts we need to get our noses out of? What good is continuing to spend spend spend in the wrong direction and then try to cut off the very services that helped build this country back to what it was originally favored for?
@kirabook NOBODY is talking about 'busting' them -are you listening to MSNBC? or hartman, Schultz and the rest? -not that FOX is much better. If you'll notice -no one is talking about NOT raising the debt limit EITHER (other than what's her name) . Just the idiot media -who's playing it all up like big and horrible. Our debts will be paid -it's the law. George Bush raised it -yea when it was tiny compared to what it is now. Grandma will be fine -It's us we have to worry about.
MANY people are ready to cut benefits for Americans. Sure, not the people that are currently old now, and nor the people that are playing politics at the moment, They are screwing over future generations is what's going on big time. I doubt they care either. They'll probably be long dead.
@salvor1 - Yeah, when you reduce a wealthy person's income, they can't buy: the private jet that scoots them off to wherever they want to go: the 4 houses, the 9 cars, the numerous and most exotic vacations
earn money online haha
yeahsuccesshaha 14 hours ago
2:41 Hatch isn't out of touch at all. You forget the two most important factors here: Hatch is Mormon and this is Utah. Mormons are issued a flat 10% tax on all wages (from SS or a job) that are non-negotiable. If members can't pay that, regardless of the situation, the church won't help them. That is where this mentality is coming from. BTW, Romeny's great "donation" to the church (that he played up) wasn't a donation at all. I think this mentality of theirs is crazy.
Kendrahf 1 week ago
lol the bottom 51% pay over 90% of the taxes, while the top 1& have more money than the bottom 95% combined
shroomwarrior 1 week ago
Well we wouldn't have as much of a welfare state if you actually distributed the money Mr. Senator. Also money wouldn't be as scarce if investors were taxed more, and the minimum wage were raised. Minimum wage should be doubled; I can virtually guarantee that unemployment would drop and then it might be a bit more fair for the poor to pay more taxes until then they shouldn't pay a dime more.
nasaxSN 1 month ago
@nasaxSN You are a complete idiot. It is not the federal governments job to redistribute wealth. You want more money go ear it. Double the minimum wage to $14.50 and what the fuck do you think that will do to just the price of a McDonalds cheeseburger alone? Raising the capital gains rate and historically it yields lower tax revenue. Not to it will make it harder for every working stiff in America to save for retirement.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@nasaxSN A dime more? 47% or wage earners don’t pay shit and 24% of that group are net tax consumers. Furthermore 95% of the “poor” are so because they refuse to alter those behaviors that insure their poverty.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
Senator Hatch - You are the most evil, vile and disgusting human being i've ever known. You should BE FORCED to experence what life is like for the poorest of Americans. There is no torture painfull enough that could be inflicted upon you to atone for your crimes against the poor.
FixWithFirepower 1 month ago 2
Why would any American be entitled to NOT pay their fair share of taxes in America? Americas "poor" are NOT poor by the rest of the world's standards. The IRS reports that over 49% of Americans do not pay any federal taxes. They to need to have skin in the game if they enjoy the reward of living here.
TheYoungTurdz 2 months ago
Dude, its a crazy day when I agree with the Young Turks, but orrin Hatch is out of his mind on so many issues, I just wish the Utahns would put us out of our misery and elect someone else. he has been back there for 36 years and voted to increase the debt ceiling 16 times, voted for the Patriot Act, and co sponsored SCHIP and the Dream ACT.
32gtd 2 months ago
Orrin Hatch is out of touch with liberal, he is out of touch with conservatives, he is just plain out of touch with humanity. They guy has been in DC for 36 years....How long is long enough Orrin.
JDVSA1 2 months ago
Any business who would take a tax break and hire people is definitely not a good business manager.
jjbb81 2 months ago
I actually agree with Hatch on the taxes. Every one should pay an equal percentage. However, when they say "we've got to work together" it means "you vote for my bill and i'll vote for your bill". F these politicians!
jjbb81 2 months ago
As a citizen of Utah I am ashamed of Hatch. He is a corrupt man who has a lovely record of taking bribes (Such as $5,000 from BP) and is a two face. Time for some Deseret justice.
CaptainRidley 2 months ago
Hatch, NO ONE should pay income tax. GOV needs to cut spending #1 priority
nottinmatterz2day 2 months ago
Im so poor i can't even pay attention....
dravreh 2 months ago
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The History Channel tried debunking the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Watch "The Great Thermate Debate" which debunks the History Channel. P.S. You might also to type out "Cure For Cancer" on Youtube or Netflix and watch "Burzinski" and see what happens when a cure for Cancer is found. Message by theteapartytrutherdotcom
TheOccupywallstreet 2 months ago
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but god will save you all :)
Mee551able 3 months ago
yeah thats really smart take more money from the poor and leave them broke while the rich have more money in their pockets. (SARCASM)
teensj3 3 months ago 2
@teensj3 That's Modern Republican Ideals 101 for you.
TheYouthHeroic 3 months ago
im a driver i make 300 a week i look at the bottom all kind of tax fed ssc medcare local state all kind of tax general electric pay 0 % tax while dumping cancer causing element in to hudson river nbc cnn cbs never said anyihtng
samantha34ize 4 months ago
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samantha34ize 5 months ago
@samantha34ize 300 a week is rich in alot of countries.
Scott19seventy5 4 months ago
@Scott19seventy5
Then what is 3,000 per week?
Because in the United States that is pretty much middle-upper.
LartenAndel 2 months ago
@LartenAndel It doesn't matter how much money you make, its how much you keep. That's how you know if you are rich or not.
Scott19seventy5 2 months ago
gosh I should just shut up and find my bootstraps
mzlww 5 months ago
um, are these guys not required to know ANYthing???
mzlww 5 months ago
He's another rat for the rat race.
reverenceforall 5 months ago
True
x3AnimeEGG 5 months ago
Th9is is what pushed me to vote fI would. This when not Sen Hatch doing a haqtchet job on the poor but rather when Sen McCain said the exact same thing-people who make less than 50 k do not pay taxes. Now, that is wrong-many do pay taxes and the credits come tax time is where they get tis from despite the time value of money makes these statements false. Also, May 2005, had a prosthetic skull put in on the left side of me head because of Iraq-and still had taxes withdrawn from my pay
daveme7 5 months ago
so the poor witch barely gets by paying all the bills should pay more taxes yeap sounds right and the multi billio n corporations should pay less taxes wow i find it amazes how these people have this kind of power
tavogp 6 months ago 6
Homeless and Jobless need to pay some more tax too yup.
So where does this Hatch guy get this statistic of 51%?
Well the more you earn the more you should pay in tax and the less you earn you should pay more in tax is what the guy is trying to say, but he probably forgot all man are treated equally (Not everyone follow this like racist) and that this should include the amount of tax paid.
HanhliFD 6 months ago 3
@HanhliFD Am kind of wandering if they count from day one of a new human who does not pay taxes. Once p[eople see this-will be told I am one of those who do not count in these ideals and I ask-what about vietnam vets-am disabled because of fighting a war in Iraq. I lasted all of seven weeks-wounded twice-the last rolling through an IED. Died a few times-practically have PTSD from just being at Walter Reed. I am now retired and do not pay fed taxes. I wander-do I have skin in the game?
daveme7 2 weeks ago
Gee, I wish Orin Hatch would get off the government teat and stop taking so many of our California dollars to pay for the cost of running Utah. Then, maybe, I would have an iota of respect for him...then again, no I probably wouldn’t.
mrboffo1 6 months ago
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mrboffo1 6 months ago
fuck you Orrin Hatch
MsFederer123 6 months ago
Damn it WHERE IS GROVER NORQUIST WHEN YOU NEED HIM LOL!!!!!!
luvitluvitbaby 6 months ago
@welsh77. Are you serious? You're really using this 2007 report to support your thesis? Have you read it beyond the summary? Do you understand that this is just prior to the economic fallout? Mobility -as defined in this report includes assets which are currently showing their REAL value. During this period you are citing, values of assets were highly inflated. Seriously? How and why are you defending the uber rich and not defending your country's future I do not know. But rhetoric is an a
colinsorge 6 months ago 2
@ralphinator2 You need to check your math! Right now, YOU are being taxed 18 TIMES! Guys like Robert Kiyosaki pay nearly $0 taxes, and he's NOT a corporation! A wealthy real estate investor in my home town pays nearly $0 taxes and brags about it! My statement and facts are correct. A 10% Flat tax for ALL is absolutely fiscally functional and correct.You need to do allot more research, and take a few College Math classes in finance.Then, put the math to work on large corporations & individuals.
TheDigitalWeb 6 months ago
@TheDigitalWeb No, if you will check your own math, then you will realize that 10% is much less than 35%, which is the rate that most wealthy people pay, and 10% is much more than 0%, which is what poor people pay.
The cases you mention are loopholes, and if you say we need to get rid of loopholes, then you will be correct, but flat tax is just dumb.
ralphinator2 6 months ago
poor people dont do shit, anyone who is poor is stupid and their kids will be stupid
nmmeyer9922 6 months ago
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@nmmeyer9922 So why are you so stupid?
thedirtman00 6 months ago
Dear Senator Hatch,
Nigga u high.
Insanaman 6 months ago
I'm embarrassed to say that I live in this man's constituency. The theory that giving big businesses tax cuts will lead to creating jobs is absolutely absurd. GE paid no taxes last year, and the only jobs they created were in CHINA.
The rich are NOT paying their fair share relative to the capital they control in this country. The ridiculous thing in all of this is that the top 1% of people have more money than the bottom 95% combined. THAT'S the problem. They don't hire anyone!
sycocoaster 6 months ago
@sycocoaster What is fair share? 100% or 75%
shotsky94 6 months ago
I think it's abysmal that 51% of Americans are on such a low income that even Americas draconian plutocratic system has to admit they earn too little to tax.
tangent272 6 months ago
This is nonsense
cecile0716 6 months ago
@welsh77. Also if you would like your opinions to be taken more seriously and debate without the constant ad hominem assaults, I would LOVE to enlighten you on the REAL America. Education doesn't begin and end with stats easily accessed from the Internet and regurgitating what you've heard that day from Limbaugh or Beck.
colinsorge 6 months ago
@Welsh77...I'm afraid you are incorrect sir. I am a sociologist and I DO know exactly what I am talking about. I the wealthy may, indeed pay the federal INCOME tax that you have stated. However, you are completely ignoring the multitude of other taxes they DO pay as consumers on their median $16k income in my state
colinsorge 6 months ago
Mr. Parr, I'm afraid you have some bad information on why the poor are poor. Behavior is certainly NOT the #1 reason for poverty in America. The truth of the matter is that we rarely move out of the social class in which we were born. We may move a little ahead within the ranks of our own class through education and creativity, but NOT from poor to middle class or middle class to rich. Recently, the trends are that we are moving DOWN on the ladder, not up anyway. The stratification between the
colinsorge 6 months ago
@colinsorge that's actually not true at all, and i'd love to see some data that asserts your bullshit statements. the treasury released an income mobility report in 2007 that stated that HALF the people in the lowest income quintile 1996 moved to a higher quintile by 2005. your first line is flat out wrong, and foolish. the poorest 30 million americans were not in this country in 1980, we have 1-1.5 million legal immigrants entering the country every year.
Welsh77 6 months ago
@Welsh77 lies and statistics. The people in the lowest quintile didn't become richer by 2005. The amount of money that determines the edges of the quintiles came down, so the definition of the quintiles moved. It's a fact that average wages have not increased at the same rate as inflation, and a raise that is smaller than inflation is the equivalent of a pay cut.
ralphinator2 6 months ago
@ralphinator2 quintiles are based on income, not wages. real wages have been flat over the last 30 years, real incomes have not. in fact real incomes for every level have risen, and that's what quintiles are based on. learn the difference. ill send you the report in a message, you can look at it for yourself and learn the truth, and stop lying to other people.
Welsh77 6 months ago
@ralphinator2 you don't accept messages from non-friends so i couldn't send it to you. but they're not lies at all, its actually totally true. i love how you say "statistics" as if they're a bad thing, grouping them with lies. probably because the statistics probably never agree with you. google 2007 treasury income mobility report
Welsh77 6 months ago
this guy is also simply wrong on the facts. in relative terms the rich are paying much more of the tax burden than ever before. the top 1% paid 15.4% of all federal taxes in 1979, they paid 28.3% of all taxes in 06 according to the CBO. meanwhile the lowest quintile's share of total federal taxes has dropped from 2.1% to 0.8% in the same time period. this politician is making a reasonable point, we have a bunch of people on the take in this country, and its ridiculous.
Welsh77 6 months ago
So in effect, what this scumbag wants is to reform the tax code so that the top 49% that he represents may pay less taxes and keep more money, all the while using his claim that the bottom 51% pay no income tax as justification.
That, in my opinion, is abysmal Senator Hatch.
tripnbilly77 6 months ago
@tripnbilly77 you realize that the top 20% controlled 81% of the wealth in the early 80s, and they control 85% now. at the same time, their share of the TOTAL FEDERAL TAXES PAID has risen from 55% to 69% in the same time period. the lies that the rich aren't paying their fair share are pretty absurd, they're paying more of our tax burden now than ever before, and we have a bunch of people who aren't paying enough or are even taking money out
Welsh77 6 months ago
Senator Hatch considers it abysmal that the bottom 51% pay no income tax yet his solution is "getting taxes down for everybody".
I'm assuming by "everybody" he means the top 49% otherwise how would "getting taxes down" for the bottom 51% help balance the budget?!
Unless he is referring to businesses, in which case he is representing their best interest and not the people, certainly not the bottom 51%.
*continued...
tripnbilly77 6 months ago
@Fonzymazer FAIL!!!
bucky468 6 months ago
I'm 17, I am not going to pay my taxes, I am going to declare bankruptcy and collect welfare while having a minimum wage job, shoplifting from stores and spend what money I have on things I want. This is why I love America, because our leaders are destroying everything our founding fathers worked hard on sending us into debt and declaring laws on things we don't vote as a republic.
avatar2288 7 months ago
@avatar2288 You dumbass, you have to own and owe to be able to declare bankruptcy.
MrSteveParr 6 months ago
@MrSteveParr As if that would be hard in this economy for an 18 year old out of highschool to purchase a house.
avatar2288 6 months ago
@avatar2288 Go ahead and try to get financing.
MrSteveParr 6 months ago
@MrWhiteRepublican So you think it's a good moral value to start shit w/people who work our fingers to the bone (& we actually do pay our taxes) for practically peanuts? You're probably one of those inconsiderate assholes that has a bumper sticker that says, "Keep working hard, millions on walfare are depending on you" or some other bullshit. Poor people can't help it & the homeless can't help it. Go to church & learn something from your pastor instead of sleeping during his sermons.
bucky468 7 months ago
@bucky468 Unless you are in the top 49% of wage earners, no, you don’t pay income taxes. The vast majority of the poor and homeless can help it. In times like these there are more people struggling but when times are good and jobs are plentiful 90% of poor people are poor because they are lazy and/or stupid. Get exposed tattoos, “F”d up hair style, dress like you dont care what anyone else thinks, facial piercing, or drop out of school, speak like a moron. And you will be poor.
MrSteveParr 6 months ago
@MrSteveParr You're a dickhead. You're brains are strictly in your arse. Stop and think before you even say a word. One of these days you'll start shit w/the wrong people & you'll pay the ultimate price. They'll beat you to a bloody pulp until you can no longer breathe. Do you even realize how offensive what you're saying really is? I'm an educated conservative (that's right, conservative) non-Republican. I'm independent on politics. I think both sides are crooks & liars. Know your role & STFU!
bucky468 6 months ago
@bucky468 BTW, I don’t even think there are any loan sharks any more. If there are I don’t know how to get in touch with one.
MrSteveParr 6 months ago
@Fonzymazer You must be a teabagger & probably Obama birther. You're also an out-of-touch idiot. Do you really like to start shit w/people especially those who work their asses off & practically make nothing? We're not all libs you know. I sure as hell ain't. I don't like Obama either but it's people like you who give America a bad name. Remember it was these idiots on Wall St & from the banking industry who got us into this mess. And it was a GOP prez who demanded they be bailed out at once.
bucky468 7 months ago
@Nadrealis Or he's just a dumbass who wants to start shit w/us from the working class. And he forgets that many indy & swing voters come from the middle class & aren't all that wealthy. BTW pal we do pay our taxes. Do you?
bucky468 7 months ago
@MrWhiteRepublican Oh yeah. Blame the poor again. I'm a conservative (independent, thank you very much) and I hope you go die in a fire.
bucky468 7 months ago
Hey! Obama is rich and he was demanding the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy americans be ended. You should check your information closer sir.
sarwrductfan 7 months ago
This cat is talking about ending the Earned income tax credit? Let me try to explain this..... the money that goes to the poor through this program is immediately put into the economy. Poor people spend this loot on things they need. There is no putting it in the bank and squireling it away. If this cat truely understands anything about small business, he would know that small business wait all year for people to get those checks.
capt251978 7 months ago
@capt251978 Let me try to explain…. Its not their money.
MrSteveParr 7 months ago
@MrSteveParr I pray to God that someday you get so far in debt that you'll be borrowing from a loan shark & you get to the point where you can't pay it back & you get in deep trouble w/the loan shark then that loan shark's hired muscle breaks every damn bone in your miserable body. You deserve it you uncaring POS!
You defenders of the reckless spenders (that's Wall St btw) & wealthy poor hating people just make me sick. You are scum!
bucky468 6 months ago
@bucky468 “They'll beat you to a bloody pulp until you can no longer breathe” thanks for proving my point. Personal behavior is the #1 determining factor in an individuals income. BTW, no ever said you have the Right to no be offended. A true conservative would address reality and deal with its as is. I doubt your prayers are heard. God has answered many prayers of mine but none like that.
MrSteveParr 6 months ago
@bucky468 I don’t care how much money wall street spends. Most of it is not my money and the companies that are acting foolish with bailout money, well I hope that will be a lesson to America and none of them ever get a dime of bailout money ever again. You claim to be a conservative but I see no sign of it. I am not wealth by any stretch of the imagination, I will be lucky to hold onto our house through this depression. I just recognize truth and where to place blame and praise.
MrSteveParr 6 months ago
@capt251978 Ok. You want to use the old right-wing "stealing someone else's money" talking pont? Part of the deficit reduction plan is to cut social security correct? Where does this money come from? Payroll deductions. That money is put aside by you and me for our future. So how is it not taking other people's money when we are talking about cutting such programs when it is YOUR money YOU put aside? Especialy when it is well funded for the next 36 years?
capt251978 7 months ago
@capt251978 You responded to yourself and we are not talking about SSI and the deficit, we are talking about the earned income tax credit.
MrSteveParr 7 months ago
@capt251978 Its funny that you think 36 years is “well funded”. BTW its probably more in the range of 25 years but that will shorten if we don’t get the economy back on track so that it can live up to the social security trustees assumptions on wage inflation. Also, there is no trust fund, you do know this right?
MrSteveParr 7 months ago
@MrSteveParr First of all I know that I responded to myself. Just because i'm a super genius doesnt mean i am not mildly retarded. lol. Yes I know we are talking about the tax credit, if you want to get the economy moving the last thing that needs to be done is reduce the purchasing power of the country. Like I said earlier this money that go into the hands of the poor is immediately put back into the economy. Thus creating a stimulus-like effect.
capt251978 7 months ago
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@capt251978 It matters not the effect of the earned income tax credit, wrong is wrong. Its is not the place of the FedGov to redistribute income. My wife and I earned $86K combined last year and carried a total tax liability of $14K the vast majority was paid to the FedGov. So, the people receiving the earned income tax credit were getting my money.
MrSteveParr 7 months ago
@MrSteveParr Also yes...... 36 years is indeed well funded. In policy terms even 25 years is well funded as well. What do you require to give your stamp of approval?? 100 years? 1000 years?? I understand it is a pay-as -you-go system, that is my entire point. If you pay into social security and get nada in return even though the program is in good shape, does that not equal stealing??? I guess it's ok to take from the poor and working class just not from the "job creators",
capt251978 7 months ago
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@capt251978 “The financial conditions of the Social Security and Medicare programs remain challenging. Projected long-run program costs for both Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable under currently scheduled financing, and will require legislative modifications if disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers are to be avoided.” - Social Security Online 2011 annual report.
MrSteveParr 7 months ago
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@capt251978 The mythical social security trust fund is now at this moment paying out more than it brings in. I say mythical because congress spent all of the excess funds and replaced them with IOUs. The problem with this is that now that SSI runs a deficit they are cashing in the IOUs and the FedGov is broke and has to borrow the money o pay the IOUs which ads to both the national debt and deficit. Yep, social security is doing just fine, nothing to see here, move along.
MrSteveParr 7 months ago
America is cactus ---- hatch needs to have an MRI, prick...
deviatea 7 months ago
His old ass doesn't have long.
datniggami6 7 months ago
Wait a minute, I make only 12,000 a year, After rent and bills, I only have 200 bucks left each month for food and other expenses... and I pay my taxes... yet he wants me to give up my tax refunds?
vguyver2 7 months ago
@vguyver2 No, he just doesn’t want you getting money you didn’t earn. That what the earned income tax credit is. It is the government saying “oh you poor little thing. You didn’t make much money so here is all the taxes you paid this year. You can have it all back and here is some free money that we took from someone else, you can have it because you are so pathetic.”
MrSteveParr 7 months ago
@MrSteveParr Don't be a schmuck, this isn't a country run by Santa Anna where you can just break the people's backs to accommodate a broken system. People work hard for their money, and frankly I'd prefer if I didn't have to life off 200 hundred bucks a month while having to put up with the rampant crime around my area because they decided to cut cops. It's not like our taxation system is broken, it's worked well and honestly for decades but people like you let dirt bag politics ruin lives.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 No, this is a country run by a piece of shit socialist vermin backed by an army or civilian and political myrmidons willing to break the backs of the productive to satisfy the slothful. The shortage of law enforcement in your community is not as big a problem as the lack of law abiding citizens. The income tax was introduced in 1913 and progressives sold to the publics by lying. “You will never have to pay it” “its only on the richest 1%”.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr The income tax at the time was low, but when did we have the huge tax increases? It was during the Second world war,and then they were continued and even increased during the cold war. Why is it that the cold war is over and yet we still have huge taxes? Especially when we shouldn't have a need for such large military spending. Also, what's wrong with socialism? Many countries with it in Europe are happier and living longer, not to mention often cheaper then getting corp insurance.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 It’s the thought that simply because I do more I owe more. 95% of millionaires in America come from the middle class or lower and 95% of Americas poor have bad decision making skills. Only the elderly and the mentally/physically challenged should get special tax exemptions. Ive been poor and even when I was earning $8K to $12K a year I never filed my income taxes because I knew I would get it all back.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr yes and when you want to buy a house, you can get fined and screwed by the IRS because you incurred fee's, not wise. I have to go to the IRS and file my taxes pay those fee's from when I could file years ago when I was nearly homeless, so that in later years I don't have to worry a future spouse or children of any financial woes because of the IRS. Also you can't fault the poor for being poor, have you ever entered a mining community? You'd think they were in a third world country.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 couldn't. Spelling correction, sorry.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 I find it unacceptable that another man shoulder my share of the load. After WWII the U.S. and Canada were the only two industrialized nation left whos manufacturing capabilities were not devastated by war. The world has changed. Business and wealth goes where it is made to feel welcome and all a progressive income tax does is to make it harder for people like me to rise above the position I was born into.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr The idea is that someone isn't leaching off you, but that everyone is acting as a single support plan. It's like a bed of needs, if you only have a portion holding a man up, he'd get stabbed, but spread the weight evenly and hardly any damage will occur. With our industry in the hands of China, and imports too, we need programs like this to guarantee some degree of insurance to the life's of everyday Americans. I think the failure of these programs are due to political tug-a-wars.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 Yes I can blame the poor, well the vast majority of them anyway. I have seen mining communities and I grew up in north Georgia around carpet mills. Ive lived in trailer parks and I go into ghettos to work on utilities. Where I live now, I am surrounded by chicken house and hundreds of independent chicken farmers. The most common thread keeping poor people poor is personal behavior. Its you, sitting around playing video games, which lives in a bubble.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 Why is it we still have huge taxes? Because Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and discretionary spending eat up 61% the federal budget in contrast defense spending accounts for 18% of spending. Of all the categories the only one that congress is constitutionally mandated to provide funding for is defense. But that’s how socialism works. High taxes, high spending and very few nails in the bed.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr The figures are no longer accurate. You aren't counting the additional packages we've used between congressional sessions to bolster the military spending without it showing up in our normal annualized spending. I assure you, it's much larger. It's been proven that political porkbelly spending, inefficiency, nonessential programs, and it could be lower if we remove insurance companies as the middle man. We can lower it 15% in social programs alone with reforms this year.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 The 150 million people killed by their own socialist governments could tell you why socialism sucks… if they were still alive. The U.S. already has the smallest tax base of any western government. In France a person making E26,000 to E69,000 pays 30% income tax and E70,000+ its 40%. Look at the old Roman democracy. People kept using their voted to put money into their own pockets. The tax base shrunk and social spending went up.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr I wouldn't count socialist gov, most were despotic. Us smallest, are you kidding? We have one of the heaviest taxed countries in the world according to the GNP rating system, especially when you compare the growth of other countries to us. Wages for Americans as far as inflation goes has been stagnant since the 70's despite the 1990's boom. In fact, current profits by the rich and the disparity of the poor in comparison to typical low wage american worker has reached 1920 levels.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 The government tried taxing everything, even public toilets but it all fell apart. You, like most who see no issue with socialism lie to your selves about your motive. “It’s the best for everyone”, “It’s the best way to fight poverty”. But the truth is, you are all jealous and envious of what other people have. I will remind you of the words of Samuel Addams, or maybe I am introducing you to them.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr Yes there are flaws, I don't believe in that socialism should be a dominant thing in the US, but we DO need it for some of the messes that our current systems can no longer handle. Universal health care is proven to be a cheaper and more effective form of healthcare, insurance companies want people like you to think they can do it better, but there is research in showcasing that the government socialism can do the same for a mere 3 cents out of a $1, insurance wants 24 cents a $1.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!"
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr Samual Adams? I don't see the point of quoting him since I'm talking about stopping the unfair taxation of the poor and middle class in comparison to the Rich. Ahem... Mitt Romney's tax percentage when compared to many middle class families.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 No, of course you wouldn’t. BTW, the vast majority of people who derive income from interest first earned the money they invested by working for it and paying income tax on their earnings. Plus, elevating the tax rate on interest will only make it harder for the middle class to save for retirement. Ahem!
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr How would it make it more difficult to save for retirement? More money retained in their income means more they can save (or spend) but that really isn't the point. You think that by increasing taxes we could put more in our Medicare and Social Security (something you don't support Steve since they are Socialist programs). Not the case since the rate of national GNP and other financial corners aren't keeping up. Reforms are needed to correct those problems, not higher taxes.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
@vguyver2 Also, none of Americas “poor” pay any income tax and very few middle class pay over 15%.
MrSteveParr 3 weeks ago
@MrSteveParr Look if you want to quote someone, then you should quote Alexander Hamilton. "In the main it will be found that a power over a man's support (salary) is a power over his will." Tell me how those 1% in Americans who control the rest of the wealth of the other 99% of Americans be not at fault for some of the policies in government? They are the most ACTIVE members of politics when compared to the rest of the class, and it's because they pay lobbyists to fight in their interests.
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
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vguyver2 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrSteveParr You don't think poor people try to change things? You don't think any of them are smart? The masses aren't stupid, maybe manipulated easily, but not stupid. They are dependent on companies owned by the rich, government influenced by the rich, and parties financed by the rich. You are telling me that none of this factors into why people are poor. Open your eyes, we are all fighting a finance machine & loosing! You think things would be the same if every politician had equal airtime?
vguyver2 3 weeks ago
There is this story in the bible about a poor widow who is criticized by rich people in his community for only giving 2 coins while the rich gives a lot more. Jesus spoke out and said that the poor has given all that he has for others while the rich men only gave a portion of their wealth
A little lesson from the bible.
flipmaya 7 months ago
@flipmaya 1. Jesus was a democrat.
2. At least she gave something.
salvor1 7 months ago
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home2night2 7 months ago
i am 57 i live week to week on my pay i have a house and car i had to pay in incom tax( this year was the highest i had to pay all most 3 time more the last year ) i may lose my home its been going down hill since
i had to borrow money to pay the government (my incom is way under 100ts.)
home2night2 7 months ago
@home2night2 i want my money back
home2night2 7 months ago
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home2night2 7 months ago
If anyone cares to remember, it was the mostly the Republicans who voted to go into the war with Iraq...
h t t p : / / en [dot] wikipedia [dot] org / wiki / Iraq_Resolution
This war, that *they* voted to start, has lasted over 10 years now - and has all but bankrupted this nation! (And we're *still* spending millions of dollars *a day* on this thing!)
If we truly want to cut our deficit/debts - for starters, they need to get us out of this war that they started!
GhostGal5 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 Expensive yes, but still less than the stimulus, resulting in the first democratic arab government and 30 million free Iraqis. And where did all that military money go? American soldiers pay, American weapon and ordinance suppliers, American shipbuilders, American aircraft companies, but most of it are costs we would be paying for a military not doing anything.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1 - Yeah, by the time we're done with this war, it's estimated that it will have cost us a total of $3.5 *TRILLION* dollars!...
h t t p : / / articles [dot] cnn [dot] com / 2007-11-13 / politics / hidden [dot] war [dot] costs_1_war-costs-iraq-oil-prices?_s=PM:POLITICS
(I hardly doubt that the money Obama spends on the stimulus will be anywhere near that!)
Btw, the stimulus was meant to *STIMULATE* the economy and get the American people buying products again - not to wage war on...
GhostGal5 7 months ago
on another country, that *supposedly* had weapons of mass destruction - but ended up not having a such a thing after all! (Tell me which is worse - giving money to those who really need it, who have lost their jobs and/or their house - or using that very same money, which the people here at home could be using, to fight a war in a far away country!)
And free Iraqis? Brother, have you not really been listening to the news lately?! Have you not heard the newest concerns?...That once we leave...
GhostGal5 7 months ago
Iraq, that there are fears that Al-Qaeda will come back in and take back over. (And realistically, nothing could be done to stop this - unless we want to keep our men and women over there, for the rest of their lives, to ensure that Al-Qaeda never returns in full-force!)
And you talk about giving all of this money towards the war - which is great & all, but how does it help the men, women, and children here at home....who have lost their jobs, possibly their homes, & struggling to survive?
GhostGal5 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 Oh please. This forum is a waste.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1 - Yeah, just like your faulty ideas are!
GhostGal5 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 The likes of you will never change. Tax the rich feed the poor, tax the rich till they're rich no more... homeless guys I see on the street that tell me they can't find a job -I tell them 'who the hell would hire you? or can't find a job -start a business -then you'll find out what real work is. My neighbor started a machine shop with a vise and a file. I haven't said one false thing and you have just given BS in return. I hope someday you'll figure it out.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1 - You see, *that* is your problem. (You seem very self-centered, snobbish, & uncaring about your fellow man - just like Orrin Hatch and the Republicans are! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised you were Orrin Hatch - I'm sure he'd say the same damb thing that you just said to a homeless man.)
Tell me, would you like to say that to the homeless children - that live across the street from the Gateway, at The Road Home! (Look into their eyes and faces - & tell them the same thing! I dare u!)
GhostGal5 7 months ago
Salvor - It's because of *you* and people like you who give this country a bad name & have made the poor-arse decisions that have put this country, and it's people, in jeopardy! (I feel very sorry for you actually, because you obviously can't see beyond your own nose - which is pointed straight up in the air!)
If you were in your right mind, you would know that "starting a business" in next to impossible right now - especially considering the fact that the economy is doing so bad off...
GhostGal5 7 months ago
& so many business are still going *OUT* of business, even to this day! (So, to even suggest such a thing really boggles my mind, as to how your thought-processes work! Obviously, like Orrin Hatch, you live in your own little dream world, where the realities of life haven't caught up with you yet. Such a shame really - that some people can be so d*mb blind!)
I'll give you some advice here: treat your fellow man the way you would want to be treated...Because, one day, you may be in *his* shoes!
GhostGal5 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GhostGal5 Don't feel sorry for me. Don't do anything for me.
salvor1 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 What is the last thing Mr. Hatch says in this video? Go back and listen to it. I suppose you give those people money to buy food for the day. Don't you see THAT is the problem?? When they eat today they are right back on the street tomorrow. YOU KEEP THEM THERE.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1 - Yeah, and listen to what Micheal Shure says at the very beginning of the video too! (People are *STRUGGLING* to pay the bills, feed and clothe their children, pay for their mortgages - all the while, people's jobs are being taken out from underneath them, it's still harder than hell to find a job, etc etc)...Obviously, you're not catching onto this message - otherwise, you would realize that what Orrin Hatch is suggesting at this point & time is not realistically possible!
Also...
GhostGal5 7 months ago
Your comment/idea about giving struggling food - yes, I say give it to them! You give what you have - after all, isn't this what Our Creator told us to do? You just don't leave people like that on the side of the street or in the dump - their HUMAN BEINGS, for G*d's sake! Not animals - not trash, that you just just dispose of if/when you feel like it! (What if they have children, what if they're taking care of their elderly mother and/or father - are you just going to tell them, "Up yours"?!?)
GhostGal5 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 As I said -if you feed them today they will be hungry on the street tomorrow. Everyone not giving them anything forces them to seek help in our social structures (which our taxes pay for and I support ) to feed, house and train them into supporting themselves. Don't give them the choice to 'eat today'. The ones who won't seek help are a problem and have to fend for themselves -but that's no ones problem but theirs.
salvor1 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 My business is failing. If my healthcare goes up another inch I'm going to have to drop it (thanks Obama). A great biz opportunity to jump into now is a board up service for bank foreclosures. Let's see I'll need a hammer and a saw, -that's rough. The lord helps those who help themselves- it works both ways.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1 - Also about your comment on taxing the rich, until they have nothing left...You know that will never happen. The rich will always find a way to hold onto their money - that's just the way it is & will always be. And that's fine...But what needs to happen, if you really want to see change in this world, is not allow greed to overtake everything!....You want to see more poor people work & make a difference in their communities?...Make education - good education - more affordable for ALL!
GhostGal5 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 Exactly -government, union, insurance AND personal greed creates overpriced cars, products and buildings and chases businesses overseas. All four of them -not JUST the last. Government involvement in business NEVER lowers long term costs. There are also greedy attitudes -corporate boards caring more about bottom lines (which insures the company and employee job survival) than much else AND the greedy attitudes of people that think the above are a bunch of criminals. Both are not good.
salvor1 7 months ago
@GhostGal5 3.5 trillion estimated by 'the commitee' ?? WHO?? BY WHEN ? -2017??? and reported by CNN???. Come on -am I quoting fox news? You'd laugh at me.
salvor1 7 months ago
The prophet Murdock works hard to deliver the lords will thru Fox news. the poor, the working class and the middle class...we were all placed in america to make life cushy for the God blessed extremely wealthy. Its not that theyre greedy...they are simply doing the will of god..
when they cut our healthcare, lower wages, force us to compete with foreign slave labor, when they mock the poor and infirm...when they attack public schools, teachers cops,unions...all conservatives wking for good.
barbcinque 7 months ago
This is a free country...the pp who are smart enough to know how to exploit the working and middle classes...they deserve to be fully subsidized by our taxes. I feel ashamed that I dont make enough money to give them even more of my taxes....so I can continue to subsidize their failures.. How else will the FREE MARKET survive if we dont all do our part in covering their billions in losses?
Long live Republicans and corporate interests!!!
barbcinque 7 months ago
@barbcinque - Ha ha ha! Very funny barbcinque! (I'm sure that's *exactly* how the Republicans and other corrupt politicians would love us all to think and act!) ;-)
You forgot one thing: Long live the ideas greed, selfishness, and not caring about your people and/or your country! :-P !!!!!!!
GhostGal5 7 months ago
@DeepSouth16 I vote straight Libertarian as I am a very fiscal conservative.
M3minusGrowth 7 months ago
Interesting... he believes the bottom 51% isn't paying enough. I know that the gap between rich and poor is increasing and most politicians have disconnect themselves and this is a great example.
davejsmith 7 months ago
HATCH TELLS THE TRUTH!!!!
FatTony726 7 months ago
@FatTony726 Go get fatter until you die, jackoff!
bucky468 7 months ago
stupid poor people taking our tax money...
SatanTheGreat666 7 months ago
@SatanTheGreat666
And so does the person that says they don't pay enough. They not only want your money, they want poor people's money too.
kirabook 7 months ago
@kirabook make the poor ppl pay more, then we get to pay less. big deal
SatanTheGreat666 7 months ago
@SatanTheGreat666
But what about the people that can pay taxes easily yet they pay none at all? What happened to taxing rich people?
kirabook 7 months ago
@kirabook why do you think they pay none. I think you're in for a surprise.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1
Because they don't have to pretty much. Gov pretty much gives them a free ride all the time.
kirabook 7 months ago
@kirabook OK, you need to straightened out right now. The top 1% of wage earners pay 45% of all income taxes collected. The top 10% pays 70%. The lower 47% pay no fed income taxes AT ALL. Look around you at the bridges, expressways, federal protections (military, food and drug safety, airline safety, care of the old and disabled etc, etc) 70% of that paid by the upper 10%. You should thank them.
salvor1 7 months ago
@kirabook They are paying that NOW -you want them to pay MORE??!?
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1
What? Are you expecting people that have no money to pay money they don't have? What is more dept going to do for this country? Nothing. If America wants to continue to be what is is today, some of the bigger companies that literal got away with millions recently need to pay it back. Upper class 'can't handle, middle class can't handle it, and poor class will never be able to handle it. I don't know why people are expecting something from literally POOR PEOPLE.
kirabook 7 months ago 7
@kirabook I'm not saying raise taxes. I'm not saying go further into debt. (it's spelled d e b t ). I'm not saying cut services to those who need it. I'm saying cut other spending -Reduce payments to Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, Africa and all the rest, reduce defense spending, 90% of homeland security money is a total waste, reduce entitlements by 10% -I'm sorry, the poor can live on 90% of what they got -I'm living on about 30% of the money my company used to make.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1
Oh yes, excuse my spelling error, I spell that wrong often.
Anyway, That would be fantastic, but thus far, that is not what they're wanting to do. They do want to cut all the benefits, calling poor and many unfortunate people they need to pay more. They can barely live at all. Most recently trying their hardest to get rid of medicare and social security, and that's just ridiculous.
My mom who is an excellent teacher... well, you know what's happening to education I'm sure.
kirabook 7 months ago
@kirabook That's what the repubs are talking about. Geez -everyone thinks they're all SO EVIL. They're just TRYING TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK. When you reduce a wealthy persons income -he doesn't have money to buy houses, cars, services or investments (all job creators). Trickle down does work when there is stability. When they are threatened with tax increases of course they are not going to invest in multi year projects they may not have money for.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1
But you can't bust things that people have spent their entire lives paying for and use it for something else. Why no actually cut all the unneeded things like what's currently being used for the military and all the oversea conflicts we need to get our noses out of? What good is continuing to spend spend spend in the wrong direction and then try to cut off the very services that helped build this country back to what it was originally favored for?
kirabook 7 months ago
@kirabook NOBODY is talking about 'busting' them -are you listening to MSNBC? or hartman, Schultz and the rest? -not that FOX is much better. If you'll notice -no one is talking about NOT raising the debt limit EITHER (other than what's her name) . Just the idiot media -who's playing it all up like big and horrible. Our debts will be paid -it's the law. George Bush raised it -yea when it was tiny compared to what it is now. Grandma will be fine -It's us we have to worry about.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1
MANY people are ready to cut benefits for Americans. Sure, not the people that are currently old now, and nor the people that are playing politics at the moment, They are screwing over future generations is what's going on big time. I doubt they care either. They'll probably be long dead.
kirabook 7 months ago
@kirabook So why don't you work on making sure they don't.
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1
Only so much you can do in a very red conservative state. And one of the worst.
kirabook 7 months ago
@kirabook Wanna trade? I live in Illinois. Notice the blue states are the farthest in the hole. What does that tell you?
salvor1 7 months ago
@salvor1
D8 B-but, I love Illinois. I'm from there. Georgia is about 100000000000x times worse. Believe me.
kirabook 7 months ago
@salvor1 - Yeah, when you reduce a wealthy person's income, they can't buy: the private jet that scoots them off to wherever they want to go: the 4 houses, the 9 cars, the numerous and most exotic vacations