Rob Sivulka Manti 2008

[jayhawk88z]

Keep up the good work brother Sivulka

[lindalds]

and you have a sick view of what Mormons believe.

[dudeofdixie]

I need to find his church with a bullhorn and see how happy he takes my "preaching"

[MereMessenger]

A warning may be one of the best signs of love. Nice work as always Rob

[glycoboy]

this man loves to hear himself speak. he's a Zeezrom, a Nehor, a Korihor... poor guy.

[bdplist]

There are no Mospues in Manti!

That is why....

[SwingtotheRIGHT]

What's disturbing for me to consider is that liberals may be even more confused than Mormons.

[rjpilch]

FYI - The LDS church does not recommend that you use Jn.10:34 as support for becoming gods, since these gods are "men" who will die, as stated in Ps.82. Your contradicting Mormon Doctrine if you assert that men in this estate can be "gods"! Finally, you are also contradicting Duet.32 where in the Song of Moses, it teaches clearly that all other gods are demons. There is only One Rock, One God, not 30,000+. If you are going to develop theology, it should start in the first five books of Moses.

[faanunu]

@rjpilch Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

[rjpilch]

@faanunu : In reality this is very little in the way of suffering, but it is part of the path which He has for us. Being identified with Jesus and not being ashamed of the gospel of the cross is part of the walk for us. If one cannot take the heat here, the other stuff which awaits us will be unbearable. All who desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus, shall suffer persecution.

[RSivulka]

In your email to me you also promote the old heresy of confusing the 2 natures of Christ instead of keeping them distinct and separate. If we become gods just like God became a God, then by definition none of us are God by nature. You misconstrue what a nature is. Our nature is human, and we may become exalted to an office or function, or even grown into a different stage of development, but then we'd only be exalted humans. Bottom line: you devalue God in order to exalt man. That's blasphemy.

[RSivulka]

scripturetext[dot]com/genesis/­31-30[dot]htm

scripturetext[dot]com/psalms/8­2-1[dot]htm

scripturetext[dot]com/psalms/8­2-6[dot]htm

These links make it obvious that in Ps. 82 God judges the "elohim" on earth who would die as men for their unjustice. Even if you don't agree with the term "elohim" used here by Strong, the context is clear. As I learned in taking languages (including Greek), context is critical in determining a terms use (e.g., "bank" is used differently depending on context).

[RSivulka]

Further, even LDS Apostle James Talmage says that this passage is not about becoming gods, but about earthly "judges" [Jesus the Christ, 501].

[RSivulka]

Since your the Hebrew scholar what's the terms for the false gods of the people (Ps. 96:5) and Laban's "gods" (Gen. 31:30)? Further, the context in Ps. 82 is speaking to gods on this earth who were judging unjustly. I don't have a problem with other gods if you mean by that other divine beings (angels) that man was created a little lower than. They were all created by nature whereas God is a God by nature (Gal. 4:8).

[RSivulka]

I should also add that you may also unbiblically call exalted men "gods" as the Christian doctrine of theosis does, but these are still created humans and not God by nature. mormoninfo[dot]org/news-info/f­aqs/bible-passages/partakers-d­ivine-nature-2-peter-1-4 and

mormoninfo[dot]org/news-info/f­aqs/bible-passages/offspring-a­cts-17-28-9

[mymormonapologist]

This guy in the video, the one who majored in sign holding and motivational shouting, asks a very interesting question; paraphrased: "Why did Joseph Smith say that we could become Gods?" Well I think Smith was inspired by the words of JESUS CHRIST in John 10:34-36, when he said to the pharisees "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" This was a logical response to their persecutions of him, because he claimed he was the Son of God.

[mymormonapologist]

The Master's point was, if I am claiming to be the Son of God and I have said that you can all become Gods through my sacrifice- on two accounts- your criticisms of me [the Saviour] are unsound. It makes perfect sense to me. What I could never understand, is that these soap box critics seem to know LDS scriptures so well, but the very book upon which their faith rests (the Bible) seems to have either been skimmed through or ignored completely. Is not reading the Bible very "Christian"?

[mymormonapologist]

My point is, that no matter how loud this critic shouts, his words will never drowned out the words of the Only Begotten of the Father, Jesus Christ; the Lord's words in John 10 speak clearly enough. Misquoting or censoring Christ's own words isn't very "Christian" either.

[RSivulka]

mormoninfo[dot]org/news-info/f­aqs/bible-passages/gods-john-1­0-34

[RSivulka]

I never said that the Bible is true because science doesn't answer every single detail of creation, and I also never said that if there was a creator it's impossible for Him to be anything other than the God of Abraham. So you're making stuff up. As for Harris: tektonics[dot]org/gk/harrislet­ter[dot]html

[tattypatty]

What a fucking piece of shit the douche is. It's all lies; every religion. How dare some cock eating goof that believes the bible is literally true mock some other guy's fairy tale?

[RSivulka]

So if you can do it why can't I? Hypocrite. Your atheism is a fairy tale. Again, check out PleaseConvinceMe[dot]com.

[tattypatty]

I did.Just because science doesn't answer every single detail of creation does not mean the bible is true. Even if there WAS a 'creator', that doesn't mean he's the god of Abraham. now YOU do me a solid: Read Letter to A Christan Nation by SAm Harris and we'll call it even...

[RCTGFilms]

nice!

[Lutheran84]

Great work Rob!

[aaronshaf2006]

I should add my own comment here: Omiolo, it's your problem that the LDS Church has changed Gospel Principles, not Rob's problem.

[ScottsdaleStylee]

aas - The LDS Church has NOT changed Gospel Principles. Perhaps you do not understand what the Gospel Principles are. Think about it.

[aaronshaf2006]

Rob also says,

Would you also tell him that I've maxed out my comments and that my version of the G. P. is locked up in storage in UT and I'm in Dallas?

[aaronshaf2006]

Rob writes,

This is what you should get used: "O most holy heavenly Father named "omiolo." Praise your holy name! We bow and worship you alone. You are the only God with whom we have to do. Thank you for being worthy enough and getting a heavenly wife to sexually produce us in a pre-earth life! We love you with all our hearts! Amen!"

[omiolo]

aaronshaf,

" "O most holy heavenly Father named "omiolo." "

what a disrespectful TRASHY comment.

TYPICAL ANTImormon!

[omiolo]

Why do EVANGELICALS think that LYING and DISTORTING the Mormon religion is ok.

Do you NOT believe that bearing FALSE WITNESS is a SIN?

It seems like EVERYONE at the pageant was too busy worshiping God and being with their families that they couldn't hear the LIES. So YOU had to post them on youtube!

[RSivulka]

Again, omiolo, you are either ignorant or an outright liar! Gospel Principles says our relationship to our Father is the same relationship our spirit children will have with us (290). Since we don't have anything to do with our spirit-grandfather, neither will our spirit-kids. And again, if you even allow your cult the "possibility" to "speculate" about this garbage, then you blaspheme the "only true God" (Jn. 17:3) in whom this is "impossible" by definition.

[omiolo]

"Since we don't have anything to do with our spirit-grandfather, neither will our spirit-kids"

what a BIZARRE DISTORTION of the LDS doctrine. You seem to be good at that!

[RSivulka]

Ever consider there are different editions to the Gospel Principles? Here's the link to the quote I just gave you. This edition is page 302.

[RSivulka]

lds[dot]org/library/display/0,­4945,11-1-13-59,00[dot]html

[RSivulka]

If that doesn't work, look under the chapter of Gospel Principles called "Exaltation." That should work for any edition. This is simply a blasphemous publication from this cult.

[ScottsdaleStylee]

rSivulka -- Why criticize anothers faith? What do you hope to accomplish?

[RSivulka]

Are you criticizing me? What do you hope to accomplish?

[ScottsdaleStylee]

RS - Do you think I am critizing you? Why didn't you answer my questions?

[ScottsdaleStylee]

RS -- Answers to your questions: No. Nothing, just curious.

[RSivulka]

You did criticize me on the video comments for "Rob Sivulka Warning and Admonishing Mormons." If you can do it, so can I. I'm saving LDS from hell and others from joining this cult.

[ScottsdaleStylee]

RS -- What did I say that was critical?

[RSivulka]

You said on the other video: "That is hypocritical b/c your actions contradict your stated beliefs. Further your actions contradict 2 Tim. 4:2, which says that you should exhort w/ longsuffering. Your actions are not longsuffering." Sounds critical to me.

[ScottsdaleStylee]

RS - Sorry. Yes, that was critical of you. I formed an opinion based upon what I saw and heard. I think that what you are doing was hypocritical.

[RSivulka]

Well I think it's hypocritical of you to be critical of me and then claim that I shouldn't be critical. Was Jesus crucified for being niiiiiiiiiiice and perceived as loving? Think again!

[ScottsdaleStylee]

RS - You make a good point. It is not my place to judge. That was not my intent, but I can see how it can be interpreted as such. Therefore, I will try to be more careful in my observations.

I would have to answer "yes" to your question b/c Christ is nice and He is loving.

Do you really think that Christ would do what you are doing? Really?

[RSivulka]

Again, you really need to read the New Testament. Start with Matthew 23 and see how Jesus lit the Pharisees and scribes up. See Luke 13:17 how Jesus shamed his adversaries. Do you also remember how He would also clean out the temple with whips? This just shows me that you really don't know Jesus. Please read the Bible before it's too late.

[rjpilch]

You need to get a copy of "the Visual Bible" tape or DVD. It is a dramatized version of the gospel of Matthew. Watch chapter 23...twice

[ScottsdaleStylee]

rjpilch -- I probably won't ever do that, so why don't you either send one to me or tell what it is about. Thanks.

[rjpilch]

I will tell you that if you watch it and compare what Rob says to the Mormons, with what Jesus says to the Pharisees and Scribes, the Mormons are getting the softer version. Jesus cut the Pharisees in half with his words and exposed them for the vermin that they were. He called them snakes!, hypocrites!, sons of hell!, blind guides!, full of deceit and hypocracy, they were white washed tombs full of dead mens bones and all uncleaness.

[ScottsdaleStylee]

rj - Are you really going to try and compare Rob to Jesus Christ and Mormons to Pharisees? Really?

[omiolo]

"Ever consider there are different editions to the Gospel Principles?"

quick question....

which edition were you quoting from and which edition are you now quoting from?

that should be an easy question to answer!

[omiolo]

"Father is the same relationship our spirit children will have with us (290). "

how funny I didn't find that quote on p290 of Gospel Principles!

does that make you...

"either ignorant or an outright liar"???

[RSivulka]

"Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, 'All things are theirs' (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people: ...2. They will become gods. 3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family."

[omiolo]

"They will be an eternal family"

why do you HATE families so much? What is so wrong about families in your book?

[Shazoolo]

RSivulka, This omiolo guy does this on almost every video critical of the LDS religion. He calls me a "liar" all the time, but when challenged by myself and others he just keeps saying "liar" etc. Sad really when all we are trying to do is present the truth to these poor souls. I pray and hope one day he wakes up from the spell that mormondom has him under and comes to know the real Jesus Christ.

[omiolo]

"Sad really when all we are trying to do is present the truth to these poor souls."

LIES and DISTORTIONS are NOT truth! I love your pius attitude! The pharisees are PROUD of you!

[omiolo]

"all we are trying to do is present the truth to these poor souls"

I meant POMPOUS attitude of yours instead of PIUS.

"I pray and hope one day he wakes up from the spell"

you seem to fixate a lot of spells and withcraft and the OCCULT and vampires and all the workings of the devil. It is NOT me that claims to have been a GOTHIC!

[Shazoolo]

A strong message but sometimes people need to hear it this way, and of course Jesus delivered strong words to religious people at times too. I am sure you must have hit home with some of these people! May God bless you guys for the efforts put in to the outreach in Manti.

[omiolo]

"A strong message but sometimes people need to hear it this way"

a quote directly from the KING of distortion and LIES