Steve Cooper on the Peter Boyle Show Talking About Obama Eligibility and Glenn Beck

[Petekiv]

beck and o'reilly are traitorous, muslim loving scumbags. The patriots are Susan Daniels, Peter Boyles, Rick Wiles.

[Petekiv]

o to: Susan Daniels Explains Obama's Social Security Number Fraud. obama, beck, o'reilly must be stopped. We have to stand behind Susan Daniels, Peter Boyles and all patriots who love our country! May o'reilly, beck and other gutless scum burn in hell!

[NoGuff]

No research is necessary here. The year Obama was born, the "natural born citizen" clause was still in effect. His father was not a citizen, he was a foreign nationa. There it is, nothing more.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Pffft. The natural born citizen clause is still in effect today, but all it means is "citizen from birth." It has nothing to do with his father.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

"still in effect today"

--I meant that it meant the same thing the Founders wanted it to mean. Today its different.

"all it means is "citizen from birth." It has nothing to do with his father."

--You're either lying or ignorant. In its original, correct meaning, it had everything to do with both parents. Today, it is totally meaningless because it has been redefined over the years, thanks to Liberals. A child born today in another country to non-US citizens can become President.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

I'm neither lying nor ignorant. I know of which I speak. It's English, perhaps you should look into learning it.

The Oxford English Dictionary (THE internationally recognized authority on the English language) defines "Natural born" as "Having a specified position or quality from birth."

They list that definition as going back to the 16th century.

Thus 'natural born citizen,' in the English language, means "citizen from birth."

[Mystylplx]

"Where the words of a constitution are unambiguous and in their commonly received sense lead to a reasonable conclusion, it should be read according to the natural and most obvious import of the framers, without resorting to subtle and forced construction for the purpose of limiting or extending its operation." — A State Ex Rel. Torryson v. Grey, 21 Nev. 378, 32 P. 190.

[Mystylplx]

"It cannot be assumed that the framers of the constitution and the people who adopted it, did not intend that which is the plain import of the language used. When the language of the constitution is positive and free of all ambiguity, all courts are not at liberty, by a resort to the refinements of legal learning, to restrict its obvious meaning to avoid the hardships of particular cases." — Cook vs. Iverson, 122, N.M. 251.

[Mystylplx]

IOW, all you birfoons attempts to redefine the term 'natural born citizen' are meaningless. The compound adjective "natural born" means the same thing when put in front of the noun "citizen" as it does when put in front of any other noun. To claim otherwise is to descend into absurdity.

It's English--the language the Constitution was written in and that the framers spoke as their native tongue.

Learn it.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

"Learn it"

--Well, I keep asking this question and all you agenda-driven, blinded-by-programming Liberals avoid answering. What's the difference between a citizen and a natural born citizen? According to you, that is.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Again, it's English. Learn it. "Citizen" is a generic term that refers to ANY citizen whether natural born or naturalized.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

I'm going to say this one last time because debating with you is like talking to a wall. And I'm going to answer the question I've asked probably 3 times so far, because you cannot.

A citizen is one who is born here or naturalized. A natural born citizen is one born here to two citizen parents.

I really, really cannot understand why its so fucking impossible for you to understand. Its so simple a child can understand. But Liberals are too fucking stupid.

Now go away, please.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Sorry but you are ignorant, uneducated, and completely full of shite.

You seem to think that "citizen" is a special kind of "citizen." That's like saying that 'ice cream' is a special flavor of 'ice cream.' You don't even understand English.

A "citizen" is ANY citizen, whether natural born or naturalized. Learn English.

A natural born citizen is anyone who is born a citizen. A naturalized citizen is anyone who is NOT born a citizen but is MADE one later.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

"A "citizen" is ANY citizen, whether natural born or naturalized."

--Please read my explanation again, if you can understand English.

"A natural born citizen is anyone who is born a citizen"

--So then, what is the purpose in the very existence of the phrase "natural born citizen" if "citizen" is its definition? I keep asking you that and you don't have a fucking answer for it.

"completely full of shite"

--So you're not an American? No wonder why you have no fucking clue.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

You still don't understand English. Try hard to understand. A natural born citizen is a citizen. A naturalized citizen is a citizen. But a natural born citizen is not a naturalized citizen. Get it? "Citizen" refers to ANY citizen. It's not a word that means any special kind of citizen.

The framers required that the President have held citizenship from birth and NOT be naturalized. That's what it means in English despite birthers attempts to redefine it.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

"A natural born citizen is a citizen"

--No fucking shit, Sherlock, I already said that.

"A naturalized citizen is a citizen"

--That, too.

"But a natural born citizen is not a naturalized citizen"

--Please show me where I said they were the same, thanks.

"The framers required that the President have held citizenship from birth and NOT be naturalized"

--I see where your brain anurism is. You're confusing "naturalized" with "natural born." Dummy.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

No, sorry, I explained to you that naturalized and natural born are not the same. You are the one who seems to think that "citizen" is a special kind of citizen. And I already put up the quote where you said that. (See just below...)

In English, a natural born citizen is anyone who was born a citizen. By contrast, a naturalized citizen was not born a citizen but was made one later. To be eligible for President you must have been born a citizen and not made one later. STILL confused?



[Mystylplx]

Maybe a little etymology will help you understand. The root of 'natural' is 'nat' which means "born" or "to spring forth." The particular meaning of the word "natural" in this context is "not made by people." i.e. something that was born or sprang forth. Thus a natural born citizen is one who is born a citizen and not made a citizen.

Naturalized contains the suffix "ized." which means "to make into." Get it?

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

Yes, "ignorant & uneducated."

Chief Justice Waite in Minor v. Happersett (1875), writing for the majority, he admits the Constitution doesn't define it, but "At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

In Minor v. Happersett they were discussing what the requirements were to be a "citizen from birth." This was before United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which settled that question. They merely noted that there was disagreement on what the requirements were to be a citizen at birth.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

No.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

"No."

Yes.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

"You are the one who seems to think that "citizen" is a special kind"

--How many times must I tell you that I didn't write that? How many times must I ask you to provide evidence for your claim before you do so? Nevermind, I'm just going to start calling you a liar, because that's what you are.

A "citizen" is a "citizen," a "natural born citizen" is (was) a requirement for being President because it described HOW you became a citizen, UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES. Still confused?

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

"UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES. Still confused?"

You are starting to get it! The question is whether you are a citizen by the circumstances of your birth, or whether you are MADE a citizen by a legal process of naturalization.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

"whether you are a citizen"

"whether you are MADE a citizen"

--You're still not getting it. It's like you can't see over the fence yet. You're still thinking that I'm saying a citizen isn't a citizen unless this or that. That's not the case. A person born in the USA or who moves here and passes the requirements are BOTH citizens! But only one of them can be a "natural born citizen," and that's if the person born here was born to two parents who were themselves cittizens. Got it?

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

" A person born in the USA or who moves here and passes the requirements are BOTH citizens! But only one of them can be a "natural born citizen,"

You've got it!!!!

"! But only one of them can be a "natural born citizen," and that's if the person born here was born to two parents who were themselves cittizens."

You lost it. There's no requirement the parents must be citizens. You were right the first time but contradicted yourself on the second. Stick with your first instincts.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

I lost nothing, ever. There is no contradiction because "citizen" and "natural born citizen" refer to different things, though both are citizens. Check my SCOTUS quote again. "Jus soli" vs "jus sanguinis." Whether you agree with the concept and whether it is current law are two different arguments.

"There's no requirement"

--Not anymore, but there should be. There's a reason our Founders put that in the Constitution; loyalty to the nation.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

They refer to different things but they are both the same?

LOL!

Try to grasp the concept here. It's English, the language the Constitution was written in. The phrase "natural born citizen" means "citizen at birth." You are still trying to argue that "citizen" is a separate kind of citizen. A 'natural born citizen' IS a citizen.

And yes, the reason the framers put that in there was to insure the President was loyal to the nation and not some imported prince from a foreign country.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Let me explain this in simple terms. In the 19th century there was debate about whether citizen parents were required to be a citizen at birth AKA natural born citizen. That debate has been long settled.

Then in 2008 birfoons came around and tried to redefine the term "natural born citizen" to mean some third kind of super-citizenship. There is ZERO legal or historical support for this inanity. Get it?

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Hmm... so "citizen" and "natural born citizen" refer to different things even though they are both citizens?

Do you have any concept of what a moronic thing you said? A natural born citizen is different from a citizen, even though they are, uh...., citizens?

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

Only a moron can't get it. Or, someone with an agenda.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Only a moron thinks a citizen is a special kind of citizen. It's like saying ice cream is a special flavor of ice cream--it's THAT dumb.

Let me help you--chocolate and vanilla are flavors of ice cream. Both are ice cream. Naturalized and natural born are types of citizens. Both are citizens. Ice cream is NOT a flavor of ice cream. All flavors of ice cream are ice cream. "Citizen" is NOT a special kind of citizen. All types of citizens (naturalized and natural born) are citizens.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

Your iced cream analogy only proves my point. Liberals are incapable of using or understanding analogies.

"All types of citizens (naturalized and natural born) are citizens"

--I never contradicted that. You are SO dumb.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Too dumb to get that citizen is not a special kind of citizen? Look dimwit, your confusion is there (see above) for all the world to see. You even asked what the difference is between a citizen and a natural born citizen. I explained to you that natural born citizens ARE citizens, but it's apparently too tough a concept for you to grasp.

Two kinds of citizens mentioned in the Constitution--natural born and naturalized. BOTH are citizens. NEITHER requires citizen parents.

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

Dumb? Well, I choose to be informed, while you choose to live in ignorance. You refuse to look it up. Our Founders disagree with you, even Barack Odumbo disagrees with you. I guess you never heard of the resolution he & Hillary sponsored to establish that John McCain was a natural born citizen per the Constitutional requirements for President. Dummy.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

Here's a clue, dimwit--reading birther blogs doesn't count as "looking it up." Try reading some actual history instead of getting all your information from nutball conspiracy theorists. If you did you would find that never before birthers in 2008 did anyone try to argue that NBC referred to some third kind of super citizenship.

In the 19th century there were arguments that citizen parents were required to be a citizen at birth (aka NBC), but those arguments are long since settled.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

"what is the purpose in the very existence of the phrase "natural born citizen" if "citizen" is its definition?"

Just putting up your own quote so you can see where your error lies. Again, "citizen" is ANY citizen, whether natural born or naturalized. And in American law those are the only two kinds. But (again) a natural born citizen is not the same as a naturalized citizen. Is this still too complicated for you?

[NoGuff]

@Mystylplx

"The Oxford English Dictionary"

--Well first, its not a legal text. Plain and simple. Second, its not the dictionary the Founders referred to, if they did. Third, they got the concept of natural born citizen from French legal precedent or French legal text. And fourth, "specified position or quality from birth" does not mean "citizen from birth," that merely your own interpretation. But thanks, good try at propaganda.

Besides, our law defined it, we don't need your definition.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

No, they didn't get it from any French text. That's absurd. You are referring to Vattel, and he didn't even use the phrase 'natural born citizen.'

And our law does define it. It defines to be exactly what I said. Try reading the court decisions I quoted which state that trying to change the meaning of things from their plain English meaning is wrong.

[Mystylplx]

@NoGuff

" "specified position or quality from birth" does not mean "citizen from birth,"

It does if "citizen" is the "specified position or quality." As in 'natural born CITIZEN.'

Learn English.

[billybob101013]

dont blame glenn beck it looks like your on obama side steve ever time you talk insane bither talk it make obama look good, its strange why you cant see that steve cooper

[toothpickdinner]

dont blame glenn beck it looks like your on obama side steve ever time you talk insane bither talk it make obama look good, its strange why you cant see that steve cooper

[MsLIBERTYorDeath]

Beck's a coward.

[terryweb]

Good job Steve!

[68Truthseeker]

Steve Great Job Bro

[mrltavern]

good job man. Beck Suxs.