"Left Alone" - A Freedom to Marry short

[elhefe1138]

i thought this was a video of the band "Left Alone"...

[f0r3v3rb3tru3]

Wow this was so touching. ;[

[PLmoms]

Marriage is not being redefined. There are several definitions of marriage and they don't all require male and female.

"If it's not called a marriage, it isn't a marriage". It's something different. DP is a step in the right direction, but falls short.

I was in the hospital in Mar 2008. The nurse wouldn't give my DP any post-op instructions because she didn't understand DP laws. Do I sue? Of course not. Do I talk to people about how my relationship is deserving of being treated equally. Yes.

[PLmoms]

I went home drugged up and no instructions because my DP wasn't considered "family". there are tens of thousands of stories, worse than mine. The ONLY way of achieving equality is by having equality. Why do you deserve marital status and I do not? What makes you better than me?

[wood9670]

So you are saying people are not following the law either because they don't know it or don't respect it.

Law suits would solve that problem pretty quickly I believe.

[wood9670]

I am not being disingenuous here but could you please refer me to cultures and societies before the 20th century where the marriage has been defined as being gender neutral.

I don't just mean a society where one sex is viewed as inferior to another (property), or where their are multiple partners (I believe polygamous marriages are still marriages), or that one or more the members is a child, ect.

[PLmoms]

I was referring to the definition, look in Websters.

Still, the definition wasn't necessary because marriage was, as you mention, about women/children as property. The Church did not encourage marriage until the 12th century (my memory could be off by a century or 2 ;-) Gay marriage wasn't an issue because, well...who would own who? There wasn't an equality issue, it was a property issue. Marriage was totally different than it is today. Today it is about love and legal responsibilities.

[wood9670]

California DP states that "Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights,

protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law... as are granted to and imposed upon spouses."

Even if the above is false and their are issues important to same sex couples which DP's don't address, I fail to see how any of those legal benefits gay couples desire can ONLY be achieved through redefining marriage.

[wood9670]

The government gives special benefits to marriages because they involve children. Inheritance rights flow naturally to progeny. Tax relief for families eases the financial burden children bring.

Insurance policies reflect the unique relationship between a wage earner and his or her dependents (if Mom stays home to care for kids, she--and they--are still covered).

There is no obligation for government to give every human coupling the same entitlements simply to "stabilize" the relationship.

[PLmoms]

Why do straight couples deserve these "special benefits" and gay couples do not? Why the segregation?

Gay families need these same protections.

[wood9670]

I don't believe straight couples deserve anything. Marriage predates the State or religion. People are going to get together, have sex, and raise children whether one likes it or not. A rational society would wish to funnel this behavior into a productive fashion in order to protect children and society at large.

If the government tomorrow stripped all married couples of State benefits I would be upset but the action wouldn't be unjust, simply stupid.

[PLmoms]

Sad but beautiful video. I don't know that I could emotionally survive my wife dying and my children and home being taken away. It would be devastating.

[wood9670]

What about the freedom to marry more than one person?

Discriminating hatemongers!

[PLmoms]

Polygamy and allowing gays to marry are unrelated and very different issues.

Your beliefs are fine, but others should not have to be forced to lose rights and live by your beliefs. Please respect the rights and beliefs of others, including a churches right to perform marriages for same sex couples if they believe God blesses those unions. Many churches do, yet are denied the freedom to marry their gay congregants.

[wood9670]

Gay couples can already--express love, share, have sex, raise children, and spend the rest of their lives together. Its not criminal to do any of these things.

Nothing stops anyone--of any race, gender, class, or sexual preference--from having committed relationships. They may lack certain entitlements, but not freedoms.

Denying marriage doesn't restrict anyone. It merely withholds State approval from a lifestyle and set of behaviors that gays have complete freedom to pursue without it.

[PLmoms]

Denying marriage DOES restrict couples lives. If a couple married in Massachusetts goes to visit family members in Ohio, they get into an accident and one is on her deathbed, the spouse can be legally denied being by the loved one's side.

If a gay couple separates and there are children involved, states without marriage have no child support or visitation requirements.

State governments are here to define families. he gov't is supposed to be "for the people", not just some of it's people.

[wood9670]

Its true that homosexual couples do not have the same legal benefits as married heterosexuals regarding taxation, family leave, health care, hospital visitation, inheritance, etc. However, no other non-marital relationships between individuals--non-gay brothers, college roommates, share those benefits either. Why should they?

In any case private contracts or, as it is here in California, Domestic Partnership agreements solve those problems you mentioned quite easily.

[PLmoms]

Actually, DP agreements do not solve all the problems. The issues I mentioned above are not solved. Brothers and college roommates are not entering into lifelong commitments in which they share responsibilities and finances, such as a marriage. You are very degrading and condescending towards gay couples. Why? How does a gay couple having rights negatively affect your life?

[wood9670]

Sorry if I seem condescending, I just genuinely believe that for the government to get involved in any relationship that people voluntarily choose to enter in with one another then their has to be a compelling interest. I just fail to see the interest for gay couples.

For heterosexual, on average their relationships will bring about children so general rules, entitlements and penalties develop to protect them and the family unit.

[PLmoms]

There are countless families with gay parents. I know 1 couple who have 3 kids from a previous marriage. The birth mom decided she didn't want to raise the kids, the dads stepped up. My son's HS has 8 gay-led families. Many parents have chosen adoption. Of the132k kids in the US alone, EACH YEAR, needing to find adoptive homes,only 51k actually get adopted. These kids will benefit by the gov't affording gay couples marriage rights that protects the children and encourages a strong family unit.

[PLmoms]

If you are married or plan to get married, why? Perhaps it's to have children. Maybe you have simply found the one person you want to share your life with. Perhaps you have found that soul-based love and you want your spouse to have the security and protections marriage provides, both legally and emotionally. A gay couple would want marriage for those same reasons. Why deny it if it doesn't affect you life? Believe whatever you want, but why force another loving couple to live by your beliefs?

[wood9670]

I think we are talking past each other. Marriage is by definition bi-gendered. Its a definition not contigent on my beliefs but on the reality of the institution since the dawn of recorded history.

The reasons people get married is really irrelevant to the type of relationship the word marriage means to convey.

Now this doesn't mean that many of the same legal benefits the State offers to married couples cannot be offered the SS couples in DP agreements.

[PLmoms]

But the definition of marriage is not strictly bi-gendered. that is one of several definitions of the word "marriage".

Reality is that the institution of marriage has changed throughout recorded history. In the beginning, a man would take fellow tribesmen and go to another tribe to steal his wife. Men would often be killed. He would then become his property. The idea of women as property stuck for thousands of years, until relatively recently and not in all countries. Thank God for change.

[wood9670]

Your examples involve cultural systems of oppression but in no way demonstrate that marriage has ever been understood to be anything other than bu-gendered.

A forced marriage is still a marriage. All institutions can be perverted, corrupted, and abused.

[GayTaxProtest]

This is precisely why I will never pay taxes to this government again in my lifetime.

IMMORAL discrimination; UN-equal protection under that law.

[southernred8]

...when she said (paraphrasing) "we were together for 10 years and after my spouse died they just erased it all, like it never happened." -- i can relate.

[dgymail]

this happened to me. in the midst of the grief and loss I had strangers with the rights of 'family' arriving to take charge, take over and take everything! it is a nightmare. and in the end you are left with grief and you are bitter. i am wiser now and I am one of the 18,000 legal same-sex couples in CA now. and how NO ONE will intrude on my family. NO ONE! and BTW I was always concerned that my DP contract would not keep my partner's family a bay. I knew they would take steps to negate it.

[BexSoCal]

Absolutely Beautiful and Powerful. I am crying my eyes out right now, but this is what people need to see and understand. Thank you for creating and sharing this short.

~becca

[Jacksonholenativ]

I am a gay man who feels incredibly fortunate that this has not (yet) happened to me. I have friends whom have had this happen to them and it was devastating to them. I hope that this message gets out far and wide.

[patrickometry]

Thank you for such a powerful video. Sharing this at the GCRM (Gay Civil Rights Movement) Media Center where powerful LGBT focused media is showcased. Please see my channel for the link and details. Great short.

[annulla]

So sad.

[vonthesweatlodge]

cant get over this shit. the bomb yo...

[freakyfriday21]

powerful!!!

[vonthesweatlodge]

yeeeeaaaaahhh! i love it. so real.

[blufaerie]

Dope, yall... and poignant!

[roxanneshunTAO]

brilliant, beautiful, well-done, poignant. the message was clear and concise. it actually made me a bit sad. it was wise to have the old video of you guys--it looked like time actually past because of reese's new haircut. if you ever need someone to lay on the grass or dig in some dirt, i'm your gal!

--I