Ravi Zacharias - What does it Mean to be Human? - The Veritas Forum

[swordseller1]

Why cant the mega churches invite Bro Ravi in their conferences is what I dont understand.

[swordseller1]

BLESS THE HOLY NAME OF OUR KING AND LORD JESUS CHRIST. 

[chriswhite56]

"...the first thing you see is an intrinsic worth, the second thing you see is a reflective splendor"? Then why do so many Christians tell me that we and our works are "as filthy rags before the Lord"? This is just Christian apologetics; the vain attempt by a Christian of some intellect to justify a religion that has always been and, in the light of reason, logic, and the scientific of pursuit of knowledge, continues to be increasingly questionable and irrelevant.

[PuertoRicanTakeOva]

@chriswhite56 Firstly, you are misunderstanding the intent and meaning of that quote from Isaiah 64:6. It refers to people who try to justify themselves as good with good acts. At the end of the day we are still sinners, only God has justified us through HIS work in allowing his son to die for us. Its VERY easy to take what is written out of context. Religion is just an institution made my man to organize believers of God into community. If anything the existence of God is logical

[DavidCasperChannel]

brilliant. Paise God!

[Jasonms1978]

Ravi stated,and I parapharse. We he travels and makes his presentations that during the Q&A time that the same 20 or so questions are asked everytime. Words change times change and the pharsing of the question change. The thoughts of the questions remain the same. But I do agree we do not know how to ask questions. I think thats why his program is called let my people think. You can find any mainstream Christian Bookstore an Apologetics Bible. Getting one help you ask questions!

[randyrocket]

Without God, where does our observations of "bad" come from? Ourselves? Then, all that's necessary to eliminate "evil" is to simply deny it exists, maybe by popular vote? If you're in the minority, then you'll just be discounted and rendered irrelevant for the current culture.

[Hp081281888198]

Thank u for the video.GBu

[JoshvanHulst]

Thank you for this wonderful news! We are created in God's image! :D

[realhomosapiens]

Liberalism is the most Iliberal world view, and by the way, liberals are liberals from what? think about it

[mallingask]

Sadness for a reason for some time is Ok in Christianity, but sorrow and worry and morning for a long long time or endlessly is not correct.

[mallingask]

Moral category Vs Material category ....that is the way to think

[wholaughslast8228]

WOW........they couldn't have gotten better questioners than this??/

[kjdavey]

@wholaughslast8228 The problem is that we don't even know how to ask good questions any more. We have been so conditioned to just accept that we don't even question, let alone know how.

[cdejean22]

What it means to be HUMAN is to have COMPASSION and a CONSCIENCE; that is the only thing that seperates us from animals. "The first man Adam became a living being/soul"; the last Adam, became a life-giving spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:45

[cdejean22]

@cdejean22 Ignorance is the essence of all EVIL. It is the absence of LOVE that breeds EVIL, for evil is an illusion. Love is GOD, the absence of LOVE is the illusion for LOVE is not present. Man value money and material things because they are ignorant to the fact that they do not exist, for they can be taken from you in a second. In other words, your family can be taken from you in a quick second, murder or natural causes; this can cause you to go mad if you are living in the world.Romans 12:2

[Bkkhngr81]

ravi's a great speaker and i like him, but anyone who swallows this is just retarded (probably by religion). As a non-theist I see him as nothing more than a preacher - the things he says (I wouldn't call them "points") are absolutely without substance.

seriously, if you are someone who draws inspiration or 'wisdom' from this talk, you need to look around

[samuellis]

@Bkkhngr81 So where should we draw our inspiration from? Also where do you draw inspiration from? What should we "swallow" that would not make us retarded....? Please clearify...

[CarlosMarti123]

@Bkkhngr81 I'm sure you don't feel the same way about atheists (the irony).

[StuckInTheSky0]

This guy is a catastrophy

[niinja2]

why do i have to have this intrinsic worth to have value or to be subjected to this question about morality?



[curkas]

@niinja2 Because a moral statement is something that carries value and worth. For example a person that holds that rape is wrong, inherently values another's personhood. But, if this person has no intrinsic worth, objectively and externally directed towards them, then this value they offer to someone is nothing more than a delusion or baseless hope. Like a rock telling another rock it is valuable. How can a rock be any more valuable than another unless it already has value given to it? ;)

[niinja2]

@curkas

"then this value they offer to someone is nothing more than a delusion or baseless hope"

Why? Some things have values because we give them values, why is this wrong.

"Like a rock telling another rock it is valuable"

We are not rocks, things have value because we give it to them, and yes some rocks do have higher value to some of us, ever heard of diamonds, they can have both monetary and emotional value to a specific person?

[curkas]

@niinja2 That's right. Things only have value because they are given it. But, if there is no God, then we have no /objective/ value. It's subjective. Meaning it's something we create in our mind for us. It's not 'wrong'. It just means that this 'value' is an idea we make up in our heads and we drag other things in to this delusion. What would happen if someone decided they were worthless, and so did everyone else? Is this person worthless because we say it's so? Or is there objective value? ;)

[niinja2]

@curkas

There are people who are valueless in today's society, and they are old people and unborn children.

But i would not say we make up value as a delusion, its real because it is consequence of our emotion.

Things that have value are the things that are important to us, they could be made up delusions, but they are still important to us.

"Meaning it's something we create in our mind for us" Does god create value in his own mind? Why would his value not also be a delusion?

[niinja2]

@curkas

"intrinsic worth, objectively and externally directed towards them"

Things and beings dont have worth unless they are worthy to someone. Cern accelerator will have no worth to a cave man. Members of other tribes will have no worth or value to him.

They might be valued by god and that could give them value, but this is not intrinsic.

We are not valuable because we are "intrinsically " valuable, we are valuable because we are valuable to someone else, including God.

[curkas]

@niinja2 Again, my only question for you then, if that is the case, if 'value' only a concept we make up for something, then can we just as easily say that a people group or a person is worthless and that make it true? When Stalin sat in power and he saw all those people as animals, was this 'value' that he gave them acceptable? Why not? Why is someone else's value better than his?

[niinja2]

@curkas

"then can we just as easily say that a people group or a person is worthless and that make it true?"

and this is one of the reasons why i am a theist. But il be the devils advocate for a moment.

This objective value you speak of is actually subjective value of God, so even if Stalin says i give you value and you are all animals, there is still the value from god that we might not recognize. The fact that some people have less value to humanity, does not mean they dont have any value.

[curkas]

@niinja2 Actually though, as God, by definition sits above all other things, whatever his 'subjective' value would be, is actually objective. There is nothing greater than Him, and therefore stands unshaped by anything else. What He determines valuable, is valuable. So it matters not what anyone else says if God deems all people valuable (which He does), then objectively, they are no matter what anyone else says. If God deems them not, then they are not.

[niinja2]

@curkas

I would say that its gods nature to love and thus value the objects of your love. But we do the same thing, we value things and persons and morals we love or are emotionally connected to. If we designate our values as a delusion of the mind, why should the same principle not apply to God?

Would it be legitimate if i value myself even if i were alone on earth. If not would God have value if he was all alone in the universe? Maybe thats why we say god is multitude, or at least a trinity

[curkas]

@niinja2 That's right. But our values only become 'valuable' once there is already a worth to ourselves. Worth can only come externally. Again, if this was something you simply determined by yourself, then it is nothing more than a delusion - something that is made up. It doesn't speak to the way things actually are.

Yes because God has given it to you ;) But you are correct; that is why God is three in person, one in nature.

[niinja2]

@curkas

"whatever his 'subjective' value would be, is actually objective. There is nothing greater than Him"

Well ok, but does the value that a God determines value more then what a person values? Does values of a "great " being worth more or value more then the values of a lesser being?

"What He determines valuable, is valuable"

Well what we determine valuable is also valuable to us. My computer is very valuable to me but it does not have to be so to god.

[curkas]

@niinja2 No, very true, what God values, does not determine what we value. But it does give us a /basis/ on which to make /objective/ value judgements. So true, your computer may not be valuable to God, but because intrinsic worth is determined by him, we can make the distinction between something being /objectively/ valuable and something being /subjectively/ valuable. Your computer is subjectively valuable, but objectively, it isn't valuable all. Which fits in line with the gospel quite nicely

[niinja2]

@curkas

"is actually objective"

Why? because of his omnipotence? Might makes more valuable? Or because of his knowledge? But value has nothing to do with knowledge. It has to do with how it makes us feel.

I intuitively understand this argument that gods values are greater then ours, but can you pinpoint why is this exactly so, or is this just a form of emotional delusion to think that his values are greater then ours?

[curkas]

@niinja2 None of the above. God stands outside of the universe altogether. Separate from it, meaning that it give us a point of reference to refer to that is outside of ourselves and greater than anything else. By definition, anything outside of the universe must be infinite in nature. You can not get greater than infinite. If God therefore values something, He values it infinitely. Objectively and logically, His 'values' stand above all things. If God could switch values, He wouldn't be 'God'.