propaobamaganda! (why all the silliness?)

[madbcc]

cnn sucks dude

[great1138]

Most of the Anti-Obama movement in the last few months imo boils down to Republicans are already working towards the next election and looking to demonize Obama as much as possible to assure a victory in 2012.

[battim]

or gain seats in 2010.  i suppose this is common politics, maybe its the 24 hour news cycle that highlights it and make it more ingrained into our psyche.

[great1138]

I think some of it is due to a gradual distrust of the executive branch with the controversies you mentioned. Also since the late 70's you have groups like the Moral Majority who have gained a lot of political voice and really spread the divide between Republicans and Democrats even further. Republican is to be religious and Democrats are atheist or pagans. Which is untrue look at Jimmy Carter, he was one of our most religious presidents and a Democrat.

[AlmostAlwaysFabulous]

it was a great message for students....you know, alot of children, especially african american children, are very inspired by him..They arent old enough to really understand politics anyway, and his speech was not at all political or partisan. What I found to be funny was that parents pulled their kids out of school for a "stay in school" speech. :)

[RiverBirch1967]

I believe what he did was right. However, we were not sure, since he uses health care w/ every chance, he would be able, as a superb speaker, to speak to the ages you mention. When Reagan and Bush spoke, Dems raised a ruckus, so it's not unusual.

[socialmedianinja]

I think the American People are very hurt by the Government in general, then when Obama did not fix all the financial troubles within a week from taking office he was just kind of deemed bad, it is ridiculous and what it comes down to is probably the Republicans acting like babies being mad that McPain did not get elected.

[jason0015]

You missed the whole point Tim. What this is really all about is the creepy study guide that the Department of Education put out. Asking the children to write letters to themselves on "how the president inspired me". And "what can I do to help the President". And a bunch of other creepy indoctrination bullshit. That is what got everyone upset about.

[battim]

god forbid a college educated successful guy would inspire shildren to succeed. for christ sake, they deitized the founding fathers in our curriculum...so i guess it was ok for reagan to bring p tax cuts and trickle down economics in his speech to kids right?

[jason0015]

Well, I don't know about what Reagan talked about 25 years ago. The issue is that a lot of people don't like how the education establishment is used to promote political agendas. When they ask students to write essays about how great the 'dear leader' is, and how he has inspired them; it really does not sit well with parents. I had a friend who grew up in Vietnam. He told me how in school, every day, they had to write about how great Ho Chi Minh was and how he 'inspired' them. Creepy...

[battim]

You are watching too much sean hannity. I guess it was ok bush and co called everyone unamerican who question them torturing folks. Now that is more maoist than anything. That said the dept of education gave no mandates. Please read what was said you've exxaggerated it greatly. Invoking dictators to make your point is a violation of godwins law and ridiculous

[jason0015]

Well, I don't watch Hannity, and I know that the Dept of Education had no power to mandate anything. My issue is not partisan or has anything to do with Obama talking to kids. I guess I was not clear on my point. I am talking about the concept of public education indoctrinating children instead of teaching critical thinking. Teaching group think. Teaching the greatness of the state, and our great hero leaders who will make everything better.

[jason0015]

My issue is with statism and collectivism. I remember when I was a kid and I was asked to write a paper, not on what I thought, but what I was supposed to think. Asking children to write about how the President inspired them? What if the student was not inspired? They do not ask them to think critically, because they want to teach them what to think.

[battim]

well i think people generally can get past and avoid the intellectual indoctrination that surround them. from all sides.look how many lapsed catholics you know.i went to catholic school for a time, and a lot of the folks i went to school with are atheists.should we be telling our first graders these verbose mythical stories about our founding fathers?or should we tell them right off the bat we were comitting genocide among indigenous folks,having duels over policy,were slave owning hypocrites?

[battim]

glad you avoid sean hannity. he is among the bottom of the barrel. guys like him and olberman toss around the word fascist like middle schoolers toss around the word dick. it loses its meaning after a while. Education, by its very nature is indoctrination. That's where parenting comes in. Media as well plays a role in indoctrination.

[AlmostAlwaysFabulous]

"what i can do to help my president" or "what i can do to help my COUNTRY?".....because the 2 are completely different.

[battim]

its takes more than one silly lesson plan to indoctrinate a child.

[michaelkam]

good point!

[KiheiLawyer]

The answer is: When the First Amendment "Freedom of the Press" somehow became the right to do more than report the news (which is what was intended by the founding fathers) to being able to do investigative reporting and to do 24 hour "news" with anonymous sources under this bullshit interpretation of the First Amendment. When will the Supreme Court finally say "Ahhhh, NO, I don't think so"?

[angryislander56]

On the one hand distrust of government (not just

the executive branch ) is approaching the pathological, there is also an attitude that the

president actually has the the power to transform

government if only he would listen to the force.

Both are ....stupid.

[zenguin13]

Regan did the same thing. He spoke to the children of America and extolled the virtures of tax cuts and trickle-down economy as if they knew or cared what he was talking about.

It's a back door ploy used not to address kids but their parents.

Kids just want to know what the next reward is for the solemness they display and grown-ups exhort from them.

Hey, but that's how you "govern" No?

[AlexGrim]

Well Tim, back when I use to eat this shit up, I thought is was the typical party bs. Back when I'd listen to Al Franken on Air America, then go home listening to Rush, Fall asleep listening to Tony Snow, wake up and maybe hear what Mike Savage had to say, Get a break from it all by listening to Art Bell and when he went off the air I'd tune in Alan Colmes. I'm an independent, I get fair and balanced by listening to all sides. Now I believe the party bs, is a play for the masses.

[AlexGrim]

I hate the belief that people have that there is one type of socialism and one type of capitalism. A someone that studies societal organization, I know that alittle socialism isn't bad, mix that with some trade and don't put a ceiling on advancing to greatness and things will be fine. If there aren't any nasty Illuminati types to ruin it, we'd all be happy. They don't that though.

[Argentium009]

I think the God Damned Batman needs to speak about this man. DO IT!

:)

-Me

[battim]

he is a bitter man

[Argentium009]

You say that as if it's a bad thing. Bitter can be good, I mean, a few million English pub goers can't be wrong, can they?

[yescandles]

Not that I was against the President of the United States of America addressing our children, but it did bring to mind the thought when we amped up the antismoking campaign where did we go? When we wanted PARENTS to recycle, where did we go? Seems like we have learned that children (in 2009) have a huge impact on what is being done in American homes these days...life revolves around them. Adults can barely socialize without the focus being on the children. Just sayin'

[yescandles]

Oh, I am certain the disgust and mistrust in government started back before this country was founded and has gradually became worse through the years. As information became more readily available, the scoundrels in our government, churches, colleges and workforces have been exposed and we have learned that the faith we once had was built on deception, lies and greed. Lost is the patriotism...the welling up of a tear when we see the flag being raised or the Star Spangled Banner being sang.

[Greensborrow210]

Of course in simpler times there was simpler media and an easier way to control it. George Creel's CPI during WW1 controlling phamlets and radio. OWI's controll over movie's, newspapers and even advertisements in WW2. When we have fewer sources of information or "opinion", we have fewer sources to draw a conclution. Contol the sources, control the conclution. But it's not so easy anymore. We live in an era of information overload.... I think thats where the questioning comes from.

[Greensborrow210]

Here's where i think we're at: We live in a time of constant 24 hour a day media. radio, tv, internet, newspaper, magazines etc. Constant media means constant opinions..from newscaster, polititions and joe plumbers...all designed to hopefully make you see things there way. then we throw in the angles, what could have caused this, what so and so actually gained from that etc. Now no one knows what to thrust or to beleive because theres a counter point for every explanation...so why believe at all

[BlakeMason2]

Excellent point.

[BlakeMason2]

I listened to the entire speech and could not find one statement that I would consider propagandizing or any statements with any particular political bent behind it: work hard, you are responsible for doing your part in your own education, stick with it, etc. Don't bail and turn to drugs gangs or crime. Gosh--that sounds so---unamerican? Gimme a fucking break. I will tell you this--after the fake waging of war on Iraq because of some aluminum tubes--i turned media off-nothing can be trusted.

[battim]

So how did the socialized firehouses protest go?

[chrisbord]

Boring.

[pornfartin]

what's with people mad he's pushing his agenda. He was voted in right, because of his agenda right, and now they are mad at him for trying to complete the agenda that got him voted in right? I guess the civilized world will never be happy with their leaders. You want socialism? try the mayor of Toronto. He charges you tax on everything but wont allow you to cut down a tree in YOUR yard. thank spagetmonster for suburbs.

[JustificationNation]

I remember as a kid being forced to watch Reagon on tv in school, and not liking the event at all. I didn't understand then the war on drugs, and I still don't today. Seems like a complete waste of money imho.

[cooksterz]

Kids hear and absorb more from speaking with their parents (or not speaking with their parents) I thought it was overdone as well. The smart kids watched it, because their smart parents, talked to them about it. I thought it was stupid for parents to go out and just picket a speech, that had not been given yet! I think it again takes away from the intense issues our country is dealing with...

[battim]

Maybe distraction was the point...huh?

[ravenlaughs]

As I have said many times before, I do not understand the attitudes and concepts that a majority of the body politic, propagate.

This whole out pouring of resistance towards Obama speaking to the children/ in general, seems to have the same damn flavor of "Unamericanism" that the right were screaming towards the left when Bush was in office and a crowds demonstrated.

Remember folks? Speaking out against the government is "Unamerican"

You all remember that right?

Funny that...

[battim]

It seems to have the same flavor as the folks who ran around claiming bush caused 911 too

[DoggBisket]

You bring up some interesting points Tiim. There just seemst to be a general disrespect for the office of the president in general. I think it is a combination of said events that make the stew. Starting with Bush II, I think we have entered an era where the losing party just simply refuses to accept the wining president from the opposing party. Just like many libs refused to accept Bush II because he stole the election, Many conservatives refuse to accept Obama.

[battim]

Its becoming tiresome. You know the folks who were complicit with all of bush policies became his critics...now obamas dems are becoming his.

[Tychicus1769]

This issue is not what the President said yesterday, it's what he WAS GOING to say, and the lesson plans that were released to correspond with the speach "that would have been." Obama is not trusted. I'm glad we kept him in check. Obama is not to be trusted based on his ideology. Just look at his Czars.

[battim]

Could it have been, and I think you make a huge assumption about what would have been said...mind reading is impossible...but reagans speech was very political. Why weren't folks whining then? Reagan has czars...bill bennett wasn't a trustworthy guy

[Tychicus1769]

Reagan didn't have 37 czars. Come on Tim, you are being too pragmatic for your own good. Just because Bush sucked doesn't mean we have to give "equal time" to a suckier socialist.

[FantasticBabblings]

I was pretty young when Eisenhower was in office, but I don't recall any real vitriol in the public discourse. There was some anti-Catholic whispering about Kennedy, but when he was killed that got much quieter. Johnson was vilified in the south for civil rights and all over for Vietnam. I think it has evolved, but there are benchmark events, such as JFK assassination, Vietnam, Watergate, the Iran Hostage situation, the 1994 Contract for America and Gingrich's flame throwing.

[FantasticBabblings]

With Clinton it seemed to move from issues almost completely to personality. The people who hated him probably were closer to him on issues than most Democrats.

When you add 24 hour news, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Carville, Begala, Rove, Malkin etc. combine it with internet conspiracy threads, viral email bullshit... it has become such a cacophony that it is hard to hear anything sensible above the din.

[battim]

did you know the ED from the Ed show comes from the same hometown is rush, both did sports play by play in minnesota and both got their starts are DJ in ST paul? what is st paul a breeding ground for morons?

[Ramiiam]

Good post. There has always been a vitriolic fringe in American politics. Think of the John Birchers in the 50s and 60s, and the accusations of treason leveled at Truman for "losing China." But the consensus-oriented politics of that period tended to keep that kind of thing out of the mainstream (except of course when it became mainstream--i.e., McCarthyism--and there the backlash set in quickly enough).

[Ramiiam]

One turning point would probably be the mainstreaming of dissent over the Vietnam War in the late 60s. You would have to go back a century to the Civil War to find anything like that widespread loss of trust in our leadership during wartime. Another turning point was the rise of a re-energized right wing movement during the Reagan era. The rise of an alternative media and finally the internet would be another turning point.

[Rahab111222]

Bring on Plato's republic, the public obviously can't think for themselves.

[mymotherlode]

Agreed, nice comments from watchers too.

Hopefully this is only an adjustment period.

The public can bypass the media and make a stink about things- it spreads like wildfire through the 'social network.' I know people's opinion with out asking. It is not that I don't get it - I don't agree with you!

The media follows the train wreck (for ratings). News needs to be researched and informative- we need perspective & common sense it doesn't take an hour long special or movie.

[MadBadVoodo]

I was a fan of President Reagan however he was lucky he did not have the internet and bloggers up his ass 24/7 all that shit started with President GW Bush

Five Stars!!

[12oranges]

What has changed since Reagan ? No clear cut national enemy with the fall of communism. America needs an enemy to feed the black and white rationale.

[battim]

Or has the enemy come from within. We had islm for a little while and Bush squandered that. one superstitious nut criticizng a bunch of other superstitious nuts.

[12oranges]

My overly simplistic theory is that with no national enemy people turned on each other. Hence the widening divide between the left and the right. Much like Sunni and Shiite beat on each other every time they break from focusing on the news. They also need a common enemy just to be able to live with each other. "Us vs them" mentality is the enemy. Sports bar politics.

Oddly enough it's also how neocons think. Which is probably why I only half-heartedly believe in what I wrote. /cynic

[12oranges]

"breaking from focusing on the jews". Not "news".

[SiriusLupis]

There certainly is a strange type of mob panic gripping this nation right now and its building. I've been complaining about the lack of meaningful discussion about healthcare, or really any political topic lately in the news. First I thought it was simply due to media manipulation. Though that does take place, I now see that many people are simply that hysterical, on both sides. I think you're right. Things are out in the open now in a way I don't remember it being, but then again I'm only 19.

[battim]

is it mob panic os is it a loud minority. i wonder. that where the media plays in. i'm still trying to work this one out.

[OhCurt]

Nixon. Watergate. Vietnam.

Biggest shift in the relationship between the executive branch and our media.

From where I sit, anyway.

Complete sentences.

NOT what's for breakfast today.

*sips coffee*

[battim]

the onset of political frenzy can be directly attributable to alec baldwin starring on knots landing. its been written, it is therefore true.

[OhCurt]

I think they were more upset when he left the show - his character fell off a building as he was trying to kill Lisa Hartman.

LISA HARTMAN, PEOPLE!!

[battim]

Is she still hot?

[OhCurt]

I think so. The point, though, is that she survived. He didn't throw her off the roof. Julie Harris saved her.

Why can't we just move on?

*single tear*

[Squishykinss]

(cont) on his wife. It was disgusting. It happens all the time.

The same thing happened with Bush, everything Bush said the extreme left FLIPPED OUT. But the problem is the right wingnuts are louder (and bigger). People don't get out of their houses to support something, they get out of their houses to contest something. Especially if it's change. Misoneism.

[battim]

racism exists. he saw no discipline for that comment?

[Squishykinss]

The office is where all the joes hang out... the LT's and Sgts hang out in the upstairs office. So they just sit there for hours and talk behind each others back.

[battim]

got it.  god bless fraternity (eyes roll)

[Squishykinss]

i always make fun of them when im there... lol

i'll sit there and be like "YEAH BROTHERS FOR LIFE. YEAAAAAHHHH. BROTHERS IN ARMS. YEAHHH."

It's like high school.

There was actually a murder in the unit. Sgt Downing shot his wife, left her in the garage dead, and drove three hours away behind a church to pray. Creeeepy. Knew those two also.. they fought allll the time.

[Squishykinss]

From my point of view, which is deep in the heart of the baptist belt on an army post I've come to realize that people truly are racist. A LOT of people, I'm not going to say all but, A LOT OF PEOPLE in the army are VERY VERY RACIST.

IE: Was waiting in Robs' unit's office and some guy started ranting about lynching one of their black LTs. My daughter was standing right there. I calmly told him to shut the fuck up and leave the room. And he did so, as he told Robert to get a tighter leash (cont)

[thizizliz]

In the time I've paid attention to the presidency, it has always been normal to question the presidency, however it seems that the really crazy criticisms began when Clinton was in office. I could be wrong, but that's when I started noticing.

[battim]

questioning is very american. frenzied paranoia hasn't happened like this since goldwater

[DuffMc81]

Although I have not been alive to experience them enough, I think it moves it might move in waves like a pendulum. Highs: FDR during WWIII, Kennedy, Reagan. Lows: Nixon, Carter, late Clinton into GW Bush.

[DuffMc81]

however, there's also a very interesting article by a Princeton Professor (forget the name and the link) talking about presidential dynasties. Presidents like FRD, Kennedy, and Reagan "revolutionize" the office simply by adapting well to modern demands, and that model is followed until it is no longer successful. By that logic though, Obama would probably be considered the start of a new presidential dynasty (a new type of leadership) but i think that will really only be determined by his policy

[battim]

well the revolutionary presidents almost happen exactly 50 year parts. how did kennedy revolutionize anything in two years? it usually a major change in policy that effects folks lives wholly, like a the New DEal or Reagans shift to a suburb consumer based economy. so far i see no indication obama is any of those things, policy wise.

[Fringe111]

Reagan also gave a speech to the kids and his was political.

In this case you know what all this fuss is about. People dance around it but of course it's the color of his skin.

[battim]

possibly. i know some generally non racist folks who are as paranoid about obama as anyone though.

[abortabraham]

Man I remember being in elementary school, I didn't give a damn about politics. I may have knew the name of the president at most, but that was it.

[battim]

miss those innocent days?  i do.

[PathofReason]

I live in Texas and I heard these women in my class telling each other that obama was trying to recruit their children like Hitler did blah blah blah. These same idiots have panic attacks when my teacher mentions evolution. Yes, Obama wants to brainwash your kids, just like Pastors do. Ughh sometimes I hate this country

[battim]

its like that everywhere, don't worry, every country has its share of idiots.

[onlywhenprovoked]

first he's friends with terrorists, then he's a muslim, then he wasn't born in this country, then he's a socialist, then he hates america and now he's gonna brainwash the kids so that they go home and turn their parents into socialists.

the far right is fucking hysterical, and i don't mean funny.

the media seems to be pandering to the lowest denominator, and i am sure these are the same mother fuckers that were calling me a traitor for criticizing bush.

[battim]

the best was "he's a muslim" then "he goes to crazy chritians churches" they need to make up their mind, christian or muslim, huh?

[onlywhenprovoked]

oh, you even can find some truthers that claim he's a muslim, and that he's a zionist.

if it weren't so wrong, i would argue that there should be some sort of political IQ test to gain the right to vote.

[sunsetlover]

I completly agree with you battim

[battim]

good to see ya love