Lisa VanDamme Responds to WSJ Article "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior"

[sobusted1245]

Ignorant westerners, don't comment on a small portion of knowledge when you don't understand our culture

[pagani8]

Great video, another thing that's totally wrong with the article is that it completely contradicts itself, in that every Chinese child must be number 1. What?  So every kid in the class MUST be number 1? Crazy.

[AlexanderLee1]

Thank you so much for this video; I was very opposed to the article, but my reasons weren't nearly as eloquent or developed as yours.

[aldoreshgaramok]

They can have my video games when the pry the controller from my cold, dead hands.

[logotrix]

Thank you! I picked up Chua's book at the library, and I couldn't believe what I was reading. Yes, she assumed a voice of subtle self-mockery, but she still comes across as cruel and controlling. That she's proud of her own tactics is shocking - she should be ashamed to see her actions written down in black and white, let alone sent out into the world for all to see. It only demonstrates how screwed up she is.

[jeffmaylor]

The other factor, which I know is a thought-crime in American circles (whether socialist, conservative, libertarian or Objectivist) is that there may be a genetic component to what we call personality. Of course, it depends on how you define personality, but most people include things like temperament, energy level, and conscientiousness, all of which appear to be about 50% genetic. So perhaps there are more than cultural differences with the Chinese. Anyway, they seem to be winning!

[jeffmaylor]

I have worked with both Chinese Americans and Chinese citizens and they tend to be much more conscientious workers than their American counterparts. The American kids coming out of college, raised on "self esteem" and told every day how special they are, tend to be annoying, narcissistic and turn everyday events into unnecessary drama in the work place. I'm an American by the way.

[spectator59]

Kudos. Well articulated, and emotion-felt. Couldn't agree more.

[ThePhys2001]

Have any of you seen the movie "Dead Poets' Society"? Nice concretization of what Ms VanDamme is talking about. If you haven't, please do so before you trade your wife in for a drill sergeant.

[RodCornholio]

Lisa for President!

[Yuri92001]

My roommate is Chinese and is in the PhD program while I am only doing a Masters in Education. By all economic standards she is more successful. She has just got married, plans to have children once she finishes her degree, and is entering a field with much growth and possibility. It's all about being published, having the grades, and making sure her life is set up to be successful. By ALL merits she is more successful than me, but I have never met a more joyless human being. Ever.

[Yuri92001]

Above correction *she has just gotten*..anyway... I am not saying ALL Chinese people are academic paper churning robots, but there is something fundamental in her generation in particular that lacks something. While I believe it is healthy to push your child to academic success as well as personal success, being "competitive" and coming out on top isn't ..shouldn't be the totality of your existence. And winning big academically/economically does not universally define success.

[jeffmaylor]

@Yuri92001 It's very hard to evaluate the happiness of your Chinese friend, however. Many deeply happy people are not that expressive about it , at least in the conventional sense. In addition, we can't be sure how happy your friend would have been anyway. If she is joyless, is it because she "pushes herself too hard"? Or for other reasons.

[DastardlyDawkins]

Lisa...it's you, where have you been hiding all this time?

[DastardlyDawkins]

Course we had it tough.....there were 153 of us living in t'shoebox, in't middle o road......

[pipobun]

great vid! it's wonderful to see someone shed more light on this. The way to improve humanity is to improve parenting, introduce sensible methods and respect children.

[Aristotle100]

Whenever I tell me students about my childhood and how my parents raised me they always say "wow thats awesome, I wish I had that" or " My parents never encouraged me beyond doing well in school" Many parents dont even tell their kids they love them, because its supposed to be implied. I don't care if it is implied hearing it is important for a child. My gf (who is Chinese and is 22) told me that she could count on 1 hand the number of times her parents said "I love you" to her.

[Aristotle100]

Many students in college here are also lost. They have no clue what to do with their time since their outside interests were never encouraged when they were younger. Its so bad that my school has "Cultural training classes" which teach basic social skills and surviving in the outside world. The maturity level for many of them is much lower than in the West. Or they are just lost as to who they are. This is not creating independent confident children, its doing the exact opposite.

[Aristotle100]

Many people point to the high scores in China recently published involving a test students from all over the world took. Students in Shanghai or by no means representative of the rest of China. In fact many kids were given special permission to take the test in Shanghai even though they didn't live there. They were also told the test was to make China "look good" and I mentioned how important appearances are in this country. China should be proud of its progress, but A LOT more work is needed.

[Aristotle100]

Individuality and individual thought is not encouraged here. I also live i Shendong Province, by far the most conservative and old school province in China; also the home province of Confucius. I also see that Ms. Chua wrote a book condemning free market democracy, not surprising a tyrant of a mother would support tyranny in government. She should come to China and see just how great the Chinese method really is. My Chinese friends would tell her first hand of their awful experiences

[Aristotle100]

This whole "all Chinese are successful" thing may work in America, but that shouldn't be a surprise. Most 1st or 2nd generation immigrants do go on to lead successful lives, or more so than they could have achieved in their native country. I think this is because of the drive that many of them have. 3rd, 4rth generation immigrants usually aren't familiar with their families country of origin beyond a name. I've seen Chinese parenting and what it does IN CHINA...its not a good thing

[Aristotle100]

The Chinese also value "saving face" in their culture. Basically this means appearances are extremely important. So success isn't about personal individual happiness, its about "how good does my child make ME look." Trust me I've been in China for almost 2 years now I hear and see this on a daily basis.Students here have high scores, but no ability other than test taking. Having unskilled workers is a major complaint from many Chinese businesses.

[Aristotle100]

wow I just read the article. I can say that it is shameful. I actually happen to be teaching in China right now, my second year teaching college students. Many of them were raised this way and I can tell you it causes things such as insecurity, and fear. My students are so scared to answer questions incorrectly that many just sit there.

[manuelokelly]

This is an article that I would expect to be heralded by our current philosophical culture. A rationally selfless mother desperately trying to raise kids according to a set cultural standard despite all costs. Desperately afraid of her child's irrational self-interest consuming her little one, she imposes a mystical standard as a bulwark; keeping the self-interest in and the culture out.

[HMBswallowtail]

I agree with much of what Lisa says, although she swings too far to the other side, which is that we can't have a totally child centered approach, either. Children need to be encouraged, loved, allowed TV, sports, sleepovers and play dates . . . etc . . . but they also need guidance and yes, discipline.

[VanDammeAcademy]

@HMBswallowtail Ah, but I don't! Please watch the next video.

[DreadLaw2]

@HMBswallowtail Did you feel uncomfortable while saying this? Either because of an emotional reaction to what you were arguing about, or (hopefully) because you know it was presenting a false dichotomy in order to hide behind a false Morality in view of your own childhood/parenting? There is no difference between Guidance and a "child-centred" approach to child upbringing. Guidance, or better, the gift of logic which you clearly had stripped from you are not enemies of a childs natural curiosity

[HMBswallowtail]

I agree with much of what Lisa says, although she swings too far to the other side, which is that we can't have a totally child centered approach, either. Children need to be encouraged, loved, allowed TV, sports, sleepovers and playdates . . . ect, but they also need guidance and yes, discipline.

[drinfothv]

i did also like to take issue with the Tough Love camp. If parents really take the time to participate in their children's lives, there would be no need for tough love. Tough love is for boot camp, not for a small child who is facing a large and often intimidating world. I sometimes wonder if the same adult tough love advocates were the bullies i often taught a lesson to in grade school.

[Hotmonkeylovin]

@drinfothv "Tough love is for boot camp" LOL!

Trust me, there is no "tough love" in boot camp; There simply is no love.

[drinfothv]

I am truly appalled that so many of the responses go to extremes. Either to break our kids and make them submit to be successful on the one hand or on the other hand, that anything less will lead to lazy, drugged out trailer trash. It makes me wonder if you really listened to what Ms.Van Damme was saying. Kids need a balance of love, nurturing and compassionate discipline. Our kids are not pets or property. They are small humans trying to grow up and be happy.

[fannibal]

I think the article made people feel like chinese parents are "breaking" their kids like people break the will of a horse before riding it. It isn't like that at all. Parenting is full of love, compassion, nurturing, which is pretty universal in all cultures. The difference is what the definition of tough love is. "go play the piano or you will amount to nothing in life" might be tough for some to swallow if you are not used to it, but if it is just life, you learn to get used to it.

[chiyamada]

@fannibal stereotypical chinese parenting breaks children's will. it's a fact and i know from experience. i love my mother with all my heart, and being a rational human being, i know that she only does and says what she does and says because she loves me. but it doesnt make her cruel methods hurt any less and i spent a long time hating her and hating myself. and i still fucking hate the piano.

[qtutoringhelps]

One feature of the Chinese educational system that struck me as particularly horrendous is the public humiliation of students who don't fall into the top level grade. Their names are plastered on walls and then they are beaten at home by parents who have perceived to be shamed.

[qtutoringhelps]

Good video. My wife was raised in mainland China, and experienced that terrible upbringing, which is commonplace in China.

[LeClassics]

@qtutoringhelps Quite bizarre that you take a wife from a culture that you resent... quite amusing too that her experiences magically become the experiences 1.3 billion people in the world... somehow I don't think so. It would also be interesting to see how you two will raise up children, because no doubt the culture that she spoke of is quite likely to be reflected in your wife's parenting style. Hopefully you'll get in the way.

[qtutoringhelps]

@LeClassics

I don't judge individual people by their culture, but by their character and chosen values. My wife immigrated to the West specifically because she despised Chinese culture, including Chinese family-worship.

[qtutoringhelps]

@LeClassics

"... amusing too that her experiences magically become the experiences 1.3 billion people in the world..."

Oh, so, in addition to disagreeing with my wife's reported experiences, you disagree with the Chinese mother, the author, of the WSJ article, then, who I think does a good job of explaining Chinese parenting philosophy? Please, share with us your view of Chinese parenting and educational philosophy.

[waterstrike08]

I find it odd and disheartening to see these relativistic comments that attack the idea that children ought to be taught to make decisions based on the values that benefit their own lives; all for the sake of multicultural tolerance. Meanwhile, this "Tiger Mother" is condemning the virtues associated with the western world, including happiness, individuality, and the appreciation for reason over mindless obedience.

[amse]

Man, this is so good! I can't get over how good this video is!

[amse]

You are spot on Lisa!! Tear em to bits!!

[dannidandannikins]

Miss Van Damme, You're an inspiration to me. I love your videos and I wish it would have been possible for me to attend your school or one run on your philosophy. If I ever have kids, I'll try to move to America just to send them to your school!

[g0ssage]

HEAR HEAR!

[waterstrike08]

I've heard several debates in reference to this article, and they have all disappointed me. This video, however, is a beautiful refutation of arguments for mindless blind obedience toward the arbitrary whims of authority, and an elegant and fundamental step in the right direction in the fight for fulfilling achievement, reason, and man's mind.

I am eagerly looking forward to your series! Consider me a subscriber.

[alexarodin]

The author's views as well as your are extremely ethnocentric. I suggest you take a good long walk outside your cultural bubble.

[g0ssage]

HEAR HEAR!

[CarrotBallSquash]

I tried reading the article, but I was unable to finish. I was so disgusted by the very idea of someone acting that rotten towards a child that I felt like I was going to vomit. What is described in the WSJ article is child abuse of the most wretched order, pure and simple.

[LeClassics]

And I completely agree with MrHappy702... the achievement of happiness... if my parents allowed that for me I would have spent all my time chasing girls when I should have been studying. Indeed I know a guy who did just that... they are now living in a trailer park with their deadbeat, drug addicted partners with 5 kids. You say this is endemic in parents now... actually it's the opposite. Too many deadbeat parents who delude their kids that happiness will get them everything in life.

[mdonnett1]

Thank you for your thoughtful and rational video. This world needs teachers like you.

[christinafangdong]

How is happiness connected to individuality, virtue, and value, etc?

If there IS really a dichotomy btw American and Chinese parenting, the best way is probably in-between... Take constructive criticism and discard the trash. Why get angry?

[RationalJenn]

@VanDammeAcademy wrote: "A child not an adult, but nor is he a dog."

AGREED 100%. Children need to be treated for what they actually are--human beings who are learning to be rational, discovering their passions and values, and practicing the virtues.

Parenting methods that treat kids as if they are already fully grown, fully responsible adults or as if they are merely intelligent higher animals will not help kids develop into rational adults with good character.

[TeaParty1776]

@RationalJenn Traditional Chinese culture is a social approval culture. That's the alleged success in raising children. Children in that culture must never develop a basic intellectual independence. The child's professional success is a means to society approving parents, not the child's happiness.

[LeClassics]

The irony is that her kids, like MOST asian kids (the ones that don't end up dead) - turn out to be well adjusted, achieving, productive members of society. Those strict regimes they've had to endure in early life has prepared them well for the harshness of real life. That there is competition. That life isn't fair. That there are few winners, many losers.

I prefer the "Chinese Mom" raising up kids that way than the "Black Mom" raising up kids (or not) to be robbers, rapists and deadbeats.

[g0ssage]

@LeClassics You mean the ones that don't end up committing suicide? Or the ones that somehow survided but end up repeating the cycle with their own kids because "if they weren't allowed to be happy, why should their kids?" It's not about 'benefiting society', it's about teaching them to live the best life they can live.

[LeClassics]

@g0ssage And they do... by taking your jobs whilst you wallow in weed and unemployment.

[g0ssage]

@LeClassics ok. So what you're telling me that if your mommy doesn't tell you what to do, you just end up smoking weed? Sad.

[Yuri92001]

@LeClassics Wow, could you add some more stereotypes in there? I don't think two was enough.

[sonikastudios]

There needs to be balance. I went to school in South Korea, USA & Canada. Some of my white friends are just completely useless (but they're happy cause they get to smoke weed & drink beer every weekend in their moms' basements).

That being said I also know that this type of extreme parenting will create children who are not creative, not independent, and socially inept to lead a happy & fulfilling life.

I guess I'm very fortunate to have been raised with the best of both worlds..

[funnyblood]

The Yale Queen is not getting enough sex. The mother would have a non existing relationship with her husband. She even mentions that her daughter after finally getting it right, cuddled her in bed. She didn`t say our Bed ie Z father and I. That would bore the heck out of me spending so much time with my kids. I got better things to do like getting it on with my wife. Get a life Yale Queen!

[FilipinoObjectivist]

Thank you Lisa, for existing.

[8daystillmonday]

Great work. I really look forward to the whole series. Have you seen Stefan Molyneux's video reaction to this same article?

[EpistemicDuty]

That was very intense. Great video

[ocdesign8]

We are proud to be part of the VanDamme Academy and share the same views and values VanDamme teaches. Thank you for creating a truly successful academic facility that supports the dreams and passions of each and everyone of your students! Success cannot be measured in dollars alone.

What the article fails to mention is the high suicide rate for the children that cannot conform to such strict and demeaning upbringings and choose to end their lives early then endure another cold and brash day.

[Attritive]

Thank you, Ms. VanDamme. I look forward to the day when your students have grown up and can show the world what success really is--and whence it comes.

[603881]

It also should be noted that people who are overly controlled tend to look at the state as the silver bullet to all problems. They were raised to think in terms of control.

[SuperFinGuy]

By success they mean being a good mindless slave. This aspect is prevalent in the medieval Chinese culture that they do cruel things to appear "successful" and "save face". The mentality of brutes. I totally agree that the article just feeds the mentality of arrogant ignorance and that learning is a burden and not a joy of life. Can't wait for your next videos. Great fan here.

[MrHappy702]

If we allow the student to determine their success based off their happiness, then wouldn’t all young students desire more recess time, more cookies, and certainly not more studies? How does a dog gain value? With discipline and proper training the dog can be trained and refined. Can we assume that the student knows what is best ,especially the younger they are? Articles like these are fallacious in that they send their readers too quickly into the errors for bifurcation.

[VanDammeAcademy]

@MrHappy702 All I have said so far is that the achievement of happiness and the development of personal values must feature prominently in our concept of "success." The idea that this implies that the parent be hands-off, that the child be free to gorge himself with cookies and play all day, and that young students "know what's best" is a consequence of the false dichotomy in American parenting education that needs to be exposed for the absurdity it is. A child not an adult, but nor is he a dog.

[qtutoringhelps]

@MrHappy702

The question here is what does "happiness" mean in terms of the child's education in relation to his life as a whole?

[nocturnalc]

@MrHappy702

I would recommend Stefan Molyneux's response here at: watch?v=u-jg90JNksE

The tiger mother is excellent at creating fearful slaves that will not be able to overcome their slavery. Slaves are not happy by the way. A world with next to no violence requires child development with no verbal, physical, sexual violence. No fear what so ever. Governments are in opposition to this because they know that's the foundation to keeping power. Fear driven by their morality.

[RnBramwell]

@MrHappy702 Miss Van Damme has not defined what she means by Happiness. I can assure you that she is not promoting mindless hedonism, but the kind of happiness that arises from achievement of rationally considered goals. Such goals, in a child, may seem superficially and mindless to an adult... and that is what makes parenting and teaching the young difficult at times... what is the child getting out of 'this'? Is it whim, or is it productive? Interfere, wisely, or laissez-faire?