Noam Chomsky About Serbia, Kosovo, Yugoslavia and NATO War 3

[zdssh]

Chomsky is an anarchist, anti US... but after some 50 years to be used as a propaganda tool for imperialism, expansionism, intolerance, modern day fascism and genocide that the official serb policy propagates..? Mr Chomsky you need to look inside yourself.

[zdssh]

Official serb policy was ethnic cleansing of non serbs in Kosovo since the 80's. Later, serb expansionism attacked Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and then again Kosovo. But then the serbs are "victims" right..??

[52111centrumcz]

@boskolalic2009

Erm, you don't understand. I did not say serb civilians commited war crimes. I said UCK commited war crimes, and Serb police&military units then came in and started shooting on armed people they thought were criminals - I didn't say serb civillians commited war crimes.

[eldinhadzovic]

Obican govnar.

[Lawlow1978]

@rangedkid

The KLA (kosovo liberation army) an islamic fundementalist insurgency was attempting to secede and was participating in acts of terror and was engaging Serb forces. That's what started the war.

[rangedkid]

Tsk tsk tsk. So many biased opinions by serbs. I agree with Noam Chomsky, but tell me, why did they attack Kosovo to begin with? Was that justified?

[52111centrumcz]

@rangedkid

It was a response to massacres of civilian serb population - kind of like if someone invaded the US for the massacre at Waco where the US conducted genocide against a religious minority...see how simple it is to lie? Especially if you have most of the stupid herd of "independent media" following you.

[rangedkid]

@52111centrumcz Lol, it all went downhill after Tito died. Almost all ethnic albanians in Kosovo (who were the majority of the poulation) lost their jobs and were replaced by Serbs. The entire thing was staged by US. Too bad Milosovic didn't see what was coming. US does this sort of thing all the time, and you have ignorant Albanians and Serbians hating each other for no reason.

[52111centrumcz]

@rangedkid

Yes, that is more or less how it happened, but try asking any hamburger munching anthropoid that has a US passport and 99% of the time you will get a blank stare...what? Kosovo? Where is that? We bombed it? Yeah go USA!

[rangedkid]

@52111centrumcz I'm glad at least you understand.

[omsct]

As a British person I've no idea what he means when he says we haven't the slightest concept of free speech. If anything the problem is more down to political correctness, not bias or corruption.

[stirrrrrr]

The media is doing exactly the same thing in China's Xinjiang now.

[vivacomitas]

Thanks Noam.

[gamimenaki]

Now that Kosovo is finally off the Slavic yoke, Bring on a new Kurdistan! So they can have a state too, robbed & deprived of by the world powers during the Treaty of Laussane;1923! The Turks arent even the natives to the region! They raped their way from Central Asia down through the Caspian Sea from Turkmenistan!

[gamimenaki]

The theives here are the SERBS who arent the natives or aborigines to the Balkan region but originally from Poland & north-east Europe! That's factual history! They came south invading & looting their way (along with the rest of the Slavs) to escape the Mongols nearby! KOSOVO IS ILLYRIAN sacred Illyrian/Albanian land from ancient times until the Serbs came & robbed it & also tried to dominate the Croats! What hypocrites! Now its used as a US base! The Slavs are not the natives! The Illyrians r!

[perkele0079]

Jebem ti Siptarski materinu u picku!

[Twistedmihailo]

If you wanna go that far back, who was here before the Illyrians? Hell, who was here before them? It is neither Illyrian nor Serbian by GOD FUCKING GIVEN right, the topic is why it was bombed, along with Serbia, 10 years ago. And you talk about thieves and hypocrites. Away with you.

[CUBURANYC]

Bravo gamimenaki!! That is a FACTUAL HISTORY!!! And not only that...when we(Serbs)...destroyed Olderon(home planet of princess Lea) ...Luke Skywalker went to "Degobah System" to learn from great master Yoda all those Jedi skills that you(Albanians)have also...but that was not enough for OUR(Serbian) Power of the dark side!!!!!! And with a little help from our Darth Vaider(Poland-Russia...and lets say...Sri Lanka) we invaded you. What was the name of that history book?? :)

[MagnetOverlord]

@CUBURANYC Cestitam brate~! I know where you can find that book. It's on the Tatooine under the desk of Jawa(USA).

[grbavicaNS]

Fuck Nato !

[SerbDav]

I recommend anyone who would like to find out the truth about the Balkans wars to checkout these links:

1. Czech Documentary 'Stolen Kosovo' available on Youtube.

2. Emporers new clothes blog (regarding the propaganda used during the Bosnian war and fulse reports of serbian death camps.

3. Media war (slide show) available on serb blog (slide show is not created by serbs)

4. Trailer available on youtube of new Canadian film 'Kosovo: can you imagine'

5. byzantine sacred art blog

[NameFrUtube]

Tnx man.

[stirrrrrr]

support Serbia, from Canada

[klimes86]

Chomsky is mad. He is so illogical

[kommentoija2]

cvv

[kullerufes]

Everybody who wants to know the origin and history of Albanians please search in

Google(books)--The life of Ali pasha of Tepelini By Richard Alfred Davenport.

Go get yourselves educated

[sexyeamo]

funny, the interviewer is trying to get him to shut up so he can ask his next question, but Chomsky just keeps going on

[Jakili04]

and now the whole world know the truth and they to what? They give those islam huligans another country!! Bravo!

[SonsOfGod]

wait when soon you will see Turkey looses 35% of it's territory, Iraq will loose 50%, Iran another 50%... and it will be called NEW KURDISTAN... and then a few decades later it will be renamed to ... guess what? NEW BABYLON. Yugoslavia and Kosovo are political, military, propaganda and "breaking the law" precedants for the creation of New Babylon.

[stefanmckinley]

can sombody posibly post a picture of the "thin man" plz or a link to where we can find it.

[mainsqueeze1977]

Chomsky never was a great mind on politics.

He has this thing about the US being evil through and through and of course taking a pro-serbian stance fits in. Not that everything he says is wrong but he is blind to many things because they do not fit his worldview.

[ReginaldsTest]

When has Chomsky ever suggested that the US is "evil through and through"? He simply accepts the fact that most governing bodies, in any nation, act first and foremost in their own interests. This applies to the US as much as it does any country. Thank God that some one should abandon the childish notion that the world's political map is all black and white, don't you agree?

Also, I don't detect that he is unfairly "pro-Serbian" here. He is simply stating facts.

[BIGBWA]

tru dat.

[theknasp]

@ReginaldsTest

And also that state-power serves coroporate and elite interests.

[TomatoNanny]

@ReginaldsTest - well said my friend. so many intellectuals and press companies are biased that chomsky gets ridiculed purely because he tries to go beyond bias. he's not 'pro-Serb' at all. he acknowledges that milosevic, karidzic et al were fucking monsters, and are guilty of war crimes. but that doesn't legitimise an ideological bombing of Serb civilians, purely because they're diametrically opposed to the American ideology.

[Gringoman911]

Hearing only from one side is called propaganda, hearing from both sides is a debate.

[harpoonflyby]

the debate is the propaganda, when you are talking about western media.

[cbita]

serbian people have dignity and pride. i respect that more than western hypocritical policies. serbia, romanians respect you.

[Osmanovic]

'Kosovo,..You can't tell a truth about it' ..how sad...

I am disgusted by all the lies of the western world and their propaganda. And you, that you got used to having this entire western on your side, the truth hurts i know, but go bark somewhere else!!

[mrbronze013]

the irony of a cuban talking about western propaganda is too much for me to bear.

Your country is the king of propoganda, with your state run media.

*smokes cuban cigar*

*awaits for Fidel's death*

[RedStandard1917]

yeah, and our corporate media in the US is "fair and balanced". Talk about irony.

*eats McDonalds Hamburger*

[mrbronze013]

Yeah, well in my country dissention is not a crime punishable by murder

*doesn't live in third world country*

*smokes weed under Hollywood sign*

[herpescrabman]

noam for president

[BalkanPride]

It was ITN who started the hysteria about the so-called concentration camp! Penny Marshall was the reporter at the time and she did many other anti-Serbian 'news reports'. The British media were hugely anti-Serbian. Shame on them!

[NechCo]

I dont´s see the world so black/white as you. And I´m not spitting in anyones face. All concentration camps are as bad. Nazi caps, Ustasha camps ans Serb camps in northwest Bosnia.

[savit]

@NechCo

Maybe you should look at the truth behind those "Bosnian camps"... search for the video below. Since you are so objective, I assume you like to take a look at both sides of the story. Of course there were prisoners of war and crimes commited, but you are claiming much more: state/fraction organized concentation camps compared to the Nazi ones. The video has no less credibility than the videos you seeon your corporate/state sponsored media:

"Bosnian Death Camp Acusation : You Judge!"

[tier0008]

concentrationcamps in nw Bosnia? chomskey just explained the barbed wire that never existed in Bosnia. have you had the attention span to listen/ there were no such camps in Bosnia on the side of Serbs.

Serbs are the antifascists of the world...

[NechCo]

What bo you know! You have secondhand sources!

I lived in that part! You can have some telefonenumbers to people that were in there so can they explain for you. They that were in there have their own stories to tell. Noams sources are based on newspapers.

[NechCo]

The families of those who were killed in the concentration camps would spit in Chomsky´s face.

[peggytoo]

NechCo. Which concentration camps are you referring to? I bet you are not talking about the camps that Serbs were tortured and killed in along with Jews. I spit in your face you racist bastard.

[MrMP81]

Pay close attention to what he is saying. He is not talking against things that happend, what he is saying is things were manipulated to seem more extreme to make excuse for the U.S. to involve itself in the World's affairs.

[NechCo]

Yes, I get It. But you can not judge the situation from a simple TV-clip. I leaved in that region with my family and had allot of relatives who were in those camps. There was three of them, and nasty things happened there. Camps: Trnopolje, Omarska, Keraterm.. There are also documentaries on the subject. Is a to wide discussion.. I understand very well the things Chomsky is saying, that is:

[NechCo]

that the situation was used in other purposes, But that do not change the fact that many children and mothers lost their fathers there. That shouldn't be neglected my fellow pacifists.

[peggytoo]

fuck***. Strapping bombs to themselves is a Muslim thing not Serbian. Why do you people constantly keep telling the Serbs to go back to Russia. It's more ridiculous than telling the Americans to go back to England or Ireland etc. At least the Serbs lived in the Balkans centuries before America was discovered you dumb ass. Now you go back to Albania.

[EBC68]

There was no such thing as a Muslim until the mid-seventh century. You're the retard for not even knowing your own history. Anti-Christ!

[fruglescot]

Another case of America under Clinton fomenting conflict for capitalist immoral profits.

[liliangish86]

only one advice FOR THOSE WHO DID COMMENT HERE:STOP ALL THIS HATE AND DON'T GENERALIZE AND FUCK ALL THEM WHO SAY KOSOVO GENOCIDE WAS A RIGHT THING TO KILL MUSLIM PEOPLE!SHAME ON YOU NAZISTS

[stickygreeen]

I agree as well Kosovo is Serbia's it belongs to the Serbs not the Muslims the Serbs had every right to kill the Muslims the ass holes came into their country and took their land and burned their churches to the ground the U.S. shouldn't be trying to make Kosovo a place for the Muslims its the Serbs land and should stay that way Serbia is a beautiful country and every Serb is proud of who they are and their country I would much rather be a Serb than an American Serbs are way cooler!

[torpedodropkick]

The Balkans has always been in turmoil for a very long time. WW1 began as a result of a Serbian killing a Austrian ROYALTY. The history of the area must be taken into context, to understand the complexities of the situation today.

[omilosavljevic]

what's with royalty in capitals ?,.does that make it worse ?

why was Franz Ferdinand killed ?, because Austria planned to annex Bosnia, he was visiting Sarejevo on THE MOST important Serbian holiday...

you dont have to take the history of the area into context but the mentality...Serbs will ALWAYS fight for our freedom...

[torpedodropkick]

I agree with your comments.

[SmokescreenNinjaz]

sadly, all chomsky is talking about, is nothing new.

[w738]

Also, the Kosovo "Liberation" Army were radical Islamic terrorists that were funded by Osama bin Laden. And after the bombing campaign, they killed or expelled 200,000 Serbs, Gypsys, and other non-Albanians from Kosovo.

[w738]

There was no genocide. There were approximately 2,100 corpses found, both Serbian and Kosovar. What actually happened was a war between the SErbian government and Kosovar seperatists in which neither NATO nor the U.S. had any business getting involved. Anyway, NATO is a bullshit organization that should have been dissolved forty-six years ago, like President Eisenhower wanted.

[rkaroz]

great video...

[voxesencial]

what you have to be a serb to be objective?

[crnogoracz]

No, I never claimed to be objective. You did... It is almost impossible to be objective if you lived in Ex-yu. That is why I like to hear Chomsky talk about it, as he has no emotional connection to Ex-ju. So stop pretending, and come out of the closet!

greska u koracima...? haha

[voxesencial]

"That is why I like to hear Chomsky talk about it, as he has no emotional connection to Ex-ju"

no, but he has an emotional connection to anyone that was ever aggrieved by the US. that was my original point.

and I left yu when i was 6 and slovenia only saw two weeks of the war..

[erion8]

is chomsky realy sain there is no freedom of speach in britain????????

[emire25]

Trust me, there is no freedom of speech in Britain, in fact the British government has brought in laws to proscecute those who speak unpopular thoughts even if they are factually correct! Few European countries have freedom of speech. Ireland is probably one of the few exceptions although there are limits in regard to incitement to hate speech.

[peggytoo]

emire25.There is freedom of speech in Australia but because the information we get is so biased most people are going to end up having the opinion that the government wants them to have anyway. And they call this democracy. Anyone that has an opposite view would be called a racist or unaustralian.

[EBC68]

There is more freedom of speech in Britain than where your surname, or your parents , surname is from. If you lived in China you would not even be allowed to use the technology you have just used. Western Civililisation invented democracy and free speech. How dare you!

[1d10cy]

Read Mark Curtis' book, ''Web of Deceit: Britains Real Role in the World'', then have a say on freedom of speach and free press in the United Kingdom of Apathy. Oh yeah, and how democratic a system we have, where Mr Brown can choose the election date early if he deems it useful.

[XXXxxxXXXxxx11]

btw he's so right, the british haven't got the slightest concept of freedom of speech.

[voxesencial]

There is a basic intellectual fallacy that he falls into. he is convinced that american motives in attacking serbia were less than pure- which is certainly true. but from there he jumps to conclude that the other side was relatively innocent. both is possible and, in this case, true: america did attack to reinforce its constructed moral image AND serbs were in the initial stages of bosnia-style ethnic cleansing.

[savit]

Did you actually listen to the previous clip - the timing in the western presentation of events is very crucial. Please listen to the whole interview, as you will see what the Milosevic trial judge from South Africa said. Plus, he never defends the crimes of Milosevic. Again, listen to the whole interview.

[voxesencial]

I did listen to the whole interview. and i maintain my argument. he is too easily drawn into a simplistic butcher vs. victim dichotomy; and once you establish that serbia is a victim of NATO, then you are automatically more sympathetic to them. but it is not as simple as that: victim in one instance is a buthcer in another...

[savit]

This is the problem that they mention in the beginning of the interview - if you say anything about NATO you are portayed as genocide-revisionist or Milosevic-lover. I hope you have access to Fox, you may notice the similarity of your thinking with O'Reilly's and Hannity's... BTW, it's funny that you call him butcher, that nick started on Fox news during the bombing. Now that I think of it, it makes perfect sense why you are talking only in black-white.

[voxesencial]

I am talking in black and white? It was me who said that things are not as simple as they seem, especially when you talk about the balkans. I use the butcher term as opposed to the victim, i dont apply it to anyone. maybe i should have said executioner or something im an english speaker. you misunderstood my intention. what i wanted to say is when you determine one side as being victim, you are automatically biaised in their favor.

[voxesencial]

*NOT* an english speaker, i meant to say.

oh, and by the way, it was not fox news during the bombing that started calling him a butcher. milosevic was known as a butcher of the balkans ('balkanski krvnik') by the people of ex-yugoslav republics from the early 90s

[savit]

I'm sure you have a proof, right? Tell me, since you are so fair, how did the "other side" of the ex-yugoslav republics call Tudjman and Izetbegovich? Were the non-serbs the only victims? If things are not so simple, why don't you mention Hasim Thaqi and his "noble" deeds in Kosovo AND serbian parts of Croatia in '95? Face it, Chomsky's not taking sides, he talks about US involvement in the conflict. You are biased so much that you're even trying to discredit someone like Chomsky.

[voxesencial]

"Tell me, since you are so fair, how did the "other side" of the ex-yugoslav republics call Tudjman and Izetbegovich"

along milosevic, they were the reactionary scum that crawled out of their hole in 90 and destroyed yugoslavia. but you cannot deny that the majority of crimes were commited by the serbs, you cant deny that.

[savit]

"but you cannot deny that the majority of crimes were commited by the serbs, you cant deny that."

According to what can you claim that they commited more crimes? Did you count them, or did you listen to western media? When was the last time you read something about the ex-yu wars that wasn't from west media? How about 200,000 serbs that were expelled from Croatia, and never returned? How about the state dept's reports of KLA's criminal opers (weap,drugs,human traf) before the bombing of yu?

[voxesencial]

"According to what can you claim that they commited more crimes?"

UN. now if you claim that even independent UN experts are biaised against the serbs then i can't help you.

"How about 200,000 serbs that were expelled from Croatia, and never returned?"

certainly there were some crimes, but many of those people were encouraged to escape by the local serb propaganda: 'ustashe will slaughter you and your children, you must run away'

[savit]

UN is a serious organization, they never published that one side commited more crimes than the other. If you are refering to the Hague court, let me remind you about the fact the US does not recognise that court for its own citizens - so much about credibility of it. There are so many more problems with that court, Chomsky wrote about it.

[savit]

Some crimes!?!?! SOME CRIMES? And you dare to blame ethnic clensing of 200,000 Serbs on Serbs? Wait... one cannot be so one sided, unless you are biased for a reason - you must be croatian or something. Otherwise, this would reach another level of "intelectual" brainwashing, and western media should be proud of their latest achievement... wow

[voxesencial]

"Some crimes!?!?! SOME CRIMES? And you dare to blame ethnic clensing of 200,000 Serbs on Serbs?"

neither side is entirely innocent in this case (you seem to forget too easily that the secession of krajina wasnt really a humanitarian affair). and today serbs are being encouraged to return. how many croats and muslims are being encouraged to return to republika srpska?

[voxesencial]

and i am an australian born in slovenia

[crnogoracz]

AAA, tako reci, tico! Pa sad znamo odakle tvoja "objektivnost" dolazi! Sto nijesi odmah govorio?

[voxesencial]

yeah, being taught in 'objektivnost' by someone called 'crnogorac' right

[crnogoracz]

So, ethnic cleansing of Serbian Krajina - ok

and ethnic cleansing done by Serbs - not ok?

And now, you gotta tell me where you learned about them being encouraged, since last time I checked none dare to return - not to mentioned that they have NOWHERE to return, burned houses don't have a roof. Did you even hear about the serbian hockey players being beaten recently in Zagreb for being recognized as Serbs by fans? Just one of many examples, but for vox it is ok as long as they are Serbs...

[voxesencial]

no ehnic cleansing is ok, i just dont like when you focus on one side.

"Did you even hear about the serbian hockey players being beaten recently in Zagreb for being recognized as Serbs by fans?"

there are idiots on both sides

[crnogoracz]

Talking aobut one-sided, I checked dictionary and under "one-sided" it says: voxesencial

[voxesencial]

I didnt claim to be objective either, no man is objective.

[savit]

Or forged Markale market incident, where single mortar shell "killed" 70 people and wounded 100-200 (watch suicide bombing reports from Iraq and tell me are these numbers possible)? You probably well tell me about "estimated" number of deaths in Srebrenica, but you would not know that there was a massacre of Serbs in Bratunc (spell?) right before Srebrenica, and that serbs claim that they were provoked and wanted to stop the provocations (from serbian and russian sources only)

[voxesencial]

"Or forged Markale market incident, where single mortar shell "killed" 70 people and wounded 100-200"

yeah, and in dubrovnik they burned tires and damaged their own historical monuments; and murdered children in vukovar were a fabrication; and the armenians invented the genocide; and jews invented the holocaust...

[savit]

Why are you talking about Armenians and Jews? It's sad you are using this pathethic approach to slander people. As if someone is denying those crimes? You're exactly the type of intelectuals mentioned in this interview: "if you disagree with western media, you are genocide denier or Milosevic lover".

[voxesencial]

"Why are you talking about Armenians and Jews? It's sad you are using this pathethic approach to slander people. As if someone is denying those crimes? You're exactly the type of intelectuals mentioned in this interview: "if you disagree with western media, you are genocide denier or Milosevic lover"."

no, I am just skeptical of any kind of conspiracy theory, particularly when you accuse the weak of being conspirators

[crnogoracz]

That is your answer? Your skepticism borders with O'reilly/hannity type of reasoning. That is not skepticism, that is BIAS.

[voxesencial]

and why is that so tell me please?

[voxesencial]

"Srebrenica, and that serbs claim that they were provoked and wanted to stop the provocations"

yeah they were provoked by the ottoman turks. listen to mladic himself: watch?v=X-7H5rX77P4

[savit]

You only mention the crimes you HEARD about in western media. You mention Armenians, but not Kurds. You mention jews, but not slavic casualties (20mil of russians and 1.2 mil serbs). You actually believe you are fair and against all the crimes, but still like to pick and choose, and especially to judge which death is more important.

[voxesencial]

I mention armenians because their genocide is denied by turks and jews because their genocide is denied by many marginal intellectuals. not even neo-fascist groups are denying the massacres of slavic peoples by the nazis, so mentioning them would not advance my point.

[savit]

And again, if everything should be fair and balanced, why did only Milosevic's nickname appear in western media? Other guys were treated as heroes on Fox etc. But as soon as one person says something opposite from mainstream media, "he is falling into basic fallacy"? Seriously, do you really know who Chomsky is? Do you really believe that you have read more relevant documents than him about ANYTHING in order to judge his errors and fallacies?

[voxesencial]

"Seriously, do you really know who Chomsky is? Do you really believe that you have read more relevant documents than him about ANYTHING in order to judge his errors and fallacies?"

I know him for a long time and sympathise with his views and his ideal of anarco-syndicalism. but the problem is that he takes a pre-gone conclusion that america is always wrong and this results in his being biaised towards its victims.

[voxesencial]

"do you think the same about Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Dresden fire bombing? People who lived there were victims, but are we biased in favor of their governments?"

well i dont like milosevic but even i wouldnt compare him to hitler and hirohito. the victim can play victim until its crimes are well-known...

[savit]

BTW, I want to thank you for having a decent conversation, without insults (although my writing may appear a little stronger than I intendded it to be). Last point is, I certainly do not compare Milosevic with Hitler and other, I was making the comparison iwith you ideas.

[savit]

Finally, you said: "when you determine one side as being victim, you are automatically biased in their favor" - do you think the same about Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Dresden fire bombing? People who lived there were victims, but are we biased in favor of their governments? I know I'm not.

[aonnnn]

fuck u dirty whore. U are not an intellectual you are a whore

[Redcarpet01]

Prove it.

[lightningpaw2]

Difficuly to argue with such an impeccably formulated analysis. And so eloquently expressed too. Well done genius.

[shyqri20]

dont forget this is a mans opinion most of the time

[Redcarpet01]

Hardly, do you listen to him quote?

[hugochavesj]

impressive! NATO war to 'help stop genocide' was actually a war of domination!

[tigoes]

Genocide is a preatty big word for what was going on in yugoslavia. Only Srebrenica can be considered as genocide. Go and check up for the definition.

[shyqri20]

dont know about you but in my opinion the massive graves allover bosnia and kosovo its called genocide what i know of.. serbs did that so no need for definitons its genocide period!

[tigoes]

Many peoples were killed in collateral damage, whits is not considered as genocide, and many combatants were buried in mass graves by serbs too. And even serb civilians that could not be identified.