One of the best arguments of reason. by Sam Harris

[6gunwalker]

lol harris doesnt even come close to knowing how God works... if you know jesus and you reject jesus for islam on purpose then youll get your own.. God in the bible will not put the innocent, poor, orphans, oppressed regardless of thier beliefs to hell.. lol what a stupid argument that God would do this lol He knows all things and in judgement HE WILL DELIVER JUSTICE nothing is forgotten

[MyContext]

@6gunwalker That is not exactly what is claimed in the bible. The bible is rather contradictory on the topic of whether one can be saved by works OR NOT. So, the claim that you are making is unsupported. The idea of justice as depicted has little to do with fairness (as generally understood), but compliance. The more compliant generally, the more righteous the person is considered. So, by that reasoning REGARDLESS of whatever is considered to be inspired by the idea of god.

[MyContext]

@MyContext I really screwed up my last sentence. In clear terms: Whatever a person or group of persons believes to be inspired by god is considered to be right regardless of whatever the acts may consist. I must submit that ANY claim of knowing how god works given that nothing can actually be demonstrated to be directed by a god of any sort is questionable to delusional.

[6gunwalker]

@MyContext sir in the bible Jesus at times says " to anyone who has ears let him hear".... if you know the truth of Jesus and you harden your heart you may be guilty of judgement... however if youre a wunabe tribesmen from kenya and you worship whoever and have never heard the bible we as humans know that it would be UNFAIR if he sees judgemnt.. how much more God... thats why Jesus says "it is better for one to not know of God then to know off him and turn away"..

[MyContext]

@6gunwalker Again, if you know the bible ...then you KNOW that it is contradiction on the subject of works versus faith. So, you are applying your interpretation to the contradictory mess that is the bible. Which is also a point against any claim of objective morality based in the notion of god, since, the notions are all interpretations.

[HeX4869]

Harris always wins.

[alexandriabro]

See what is wrong with this dude is, he knows the world of God but not the God of the Word.

LITERALLY every single thing he listed in here as being what is wrong with "Christians" or whatever he has no idea what he is saying because he doesn't even understand God's character, he doesn't know God's word. He is twisting the word around to make it into something it;s clearly not. it's outrageous.

[jtheist32]

@alexandriabro What's outrageous is your response. The bible is clearly contradictory to itself. When did the bloodthirsty monster of a god in the old testament turn into the peace and flowers god of the new testament? Consider that the bible itself says god is unchanging. So which is it? Is god the monster from the old testament or is the bible factually in error when it claims god is unchanging?

[Gnomefro]

@alexandriabro "He is twisting the word around to make it into something it;s clearly not. it's outrageous."

What's outrageous is that Christians have a book where Yahweh commands the Jews to burn young girls for having sex.(Lev 21:9) and killing homosexuals(Lev 20:13) In a first person voice. In a language that can not be misunderstood.

And when people point out this fact, the Christians have the audacity to say they are twisting the words around because God is Love. Disgusting

[alexandriabro]

Are you serious? It is not about RELIGION it's about LOVE, it's freedom. This WHOLE WORLD is fallen, we live in a imperfect world because when Eve brought Sin into the world. bad things are going to happen no matter what. God says that you will only be judge to the amount that you know. That means if you do not know or were not given the opportunity to receive Christ you get to go to Heaven. so those billions of children you are talking about get to go to heaven.

[jtheist32]

@alexandriabro Please provide bible passages to back up what you have simply asserted here. I would like the verse(s) that:

1. God says that he judges only on "what you know."

2. That "if you do not know or were not given the opportunity to receive Christ you get to go to Heaven".

Also, can you answer this: who tells the first lie in the bible?

[Gnomefro]

@alexandriabro "God says that you will only be judge to the amount that you know. "

That's the stupidest excuse I have ever heard. If that was the case, then the entire charade with Jesus dying on the cross to save mankind would be completely pointless, as *everyone* would "go to heaven" if they had never heard about Christianity. Needless to say, your view is entirely unbiblical.

Note why you're inventing new theology on these points though - the bible is immoral.

[6gunwalker]

@Gnomefro dude thats the truth... if you and i know that its not justice that poor innocent hindu's or muslim's or buddahists go to hell for something they were born into then how much God? .... its a simple truth yet atheists like to use this as a argument lol

[kern39743]

do you know why there are so many christians in america,nobody actually read the bible

[kaox44]

Sam nail it.

[thiagoramos2011]

For all those who believe are born sinners.

You are not impure, you are the result of the most beautiful symphony that is, the symphony of life.

Everything that makes up your body one day was part of a star, this natural movement that took the life to emerge on this planet is the highest point in the evolution of matter.

You should feel so full, because you have the opportunity to contemplate even for a short space of time, the wonders of the universe.

1*

[thiagoramos2011]

while we not completely exorcise this disease that is religion the people will not waking up to reality and will continue wasting their lives on useless pursuits and flown airplanes into buildings.

We are all one, a species and we must work together to shape a society respectful and with good values​.

When we learn that we are all one family, we will understand our true place in the universe.

and I assure you that our place is not with the sheep under the orders of a selfish God.

2*

[kidasterorig111]

besides this is not the kind of life that God has promised for everyone... He promised an everlasting life. we are transient to this world... that's why we suffer... we experience sorrow... we feel pain... But God promised us a life hereafter... and that is Life after Death.

[thiagoramos2011]

@kidasterorig111 I simply can not understand how an adult at least partially educated can believe something like this.

Unfortunately the world is full of people like you, who throw life away as if it had no value waiting to be rewarded in a "better place".

It is exactly from that comes the extremism, people who think this way are weak becouse they somehow believe that a higher being is helping them ... awake to life and living the only life you have.

[kidasterorig111]

@thiagoramos2011 Trolololololololololololololol­olol

[kidasterorig111]

@thiagoramos2011 LOL

Prove to me GOD isn't real.

Don't do analogies or any other things just straight up facts.

[r28551]

@kidasterorig111 God is a cunt. Strike me down if you are real and I'll happily burn forever.

........still here...

.....waiting

.......come on god, don't be such a pussy

.....still here

[kidasterorig111]

@r28551 LOL

MANY CONTEMPORARY EPISTEMOLOGISTS REJECT THE VIEW that evidential support is the whole story about the justification of beliefs. While no sensible epistemologists generally urge people to disregard their evidence when forming beliefs, many believe that a more complete theory would introduce considerations about the processes that initiate and sustain beliefs.

From wiki

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 That is just a fantasy. There is no evidence that life continues at death, we most likely just die.

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

The truth of the Bible's historical accuracy for me is enough to believe that GOD is real and in turn spirits.

The bible is even accurate enough to predict airplanes and not just that. Also the future and historians agree that no document has contradicted the bible.

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 Everything you said is false. Evolution disproves Adam and Eve, Geology disproves that the Earth is 6,000 years old, it's actually 4.54 billion years old. The Bible has been proven wrong so much it's embarrassing.

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 Bible contradictions:

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.

GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.

GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.

GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.

Those are just some examples....You lose

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

First of all, it seems like you're saying GOD can make the universe and the complexities of life but HE can't make simple light. :( weird

I just read two versions of it and you have interpreted it wrong.

I feel sorry for you, for not reading the previous chapter.

Lose? Nope.

I'll give mine in next comment.

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

If atoms are just little balls of neutrons and protons clumped together(nucleus) with even smaller balls called electrons in orbit of the nucleus called electrons. How do these "balls" give you life. Sounds stupid right? Balls giving a man thought, life, consciousness. It's amazing really.

Why do atheists believe that:

There was nothing

For some reason and against all odds nothing exploded

Against logic and reasoning that "boom" gave birth to the universe

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

What makes up organisms= cells

What makes up cells= Amino acids

How do these amino acids give life to a living creature. How does living creatures give us just one consciousness? What part of the brain takes all the information into one? What cell of that part of the brain takes all the info?

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111

The early pre-biotic earth was filled with organic molecules (which are quite common in space), the building blocks of life. The pre-biotic environment contained many simple fatty acids, under a range of PH they spontaneously form stable vesicles. With naturally occurring simple fatty acids, we can have a vesicle that can spontaneously grow from consumption and divide.

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

Still doesn't get rid of the fact they they're balls linked together with smaller balls called electrons.

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 The pre-biotic environment contained hundreds of different types of nucleotides, all it took was one to polymerize, they can replicate themselves. So, so far we have lipid vesicles that can grow and divide, and nucleotide polymers that can self replicate all on their own, but how does it become life? Well fatty acid vesicles are permeable to nucleotide monomers, but not polymers.

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 Once polymerization occurs within the vesicle, the polymer gets trapped! In the ocean they will encounter convection currents. A vesicle with more polymer, through simple thermodynamics will steal lipids from a vesicle with less polymer, this is the origin of competition. A Vesicle that contains polymer can replicate, grow and divide faster therefore dominating the population.

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

Ever noticed that that is a so-so story of yours?

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 Self polymerizing molecules will kick off evolution, and we see things like complex sexual reproduction arise, basically where the fun begins ;)

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

Got a dirty mind there.

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 Where does God fit into all this? He doesn't, meaning he is useless and does not exist. I feel sorry that you are an adult with an imaginary friend, maybe one day you will grow up. Cheers.

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

Just like in England. Queen doesn't have power so she doesn't exist? Just b/c something is useless doesn't mean that it's nonexistent.

[theBartone9119]

@kidasterorig111 See, I can't prove that God doesn't exist, nobody can. I can prove however that there is no REASON to think he exists.

[kidasterorig111]

@theBartone9119 LOL

@kidasterorig111 See, I can prove that GOD exists, nobody can. I can prove however that there is no REASON to think he exists.

(That's what you said if I remove double negatives)

[MyContext]

@kidasterorig111 ??? Incorrect! The target of the word "can't" was "prove" and the target of "doesn't" was "exist"; this was not a double negative condition. Here is an example of a double negative. [I can't not be wrong about grammar.] Which when the target of the double negative is resolved we get... "I can be wrong about grammar." <- Which is an acknowledgement of my limitations. Take Care...

[kidasterorig111]

why should we still question about God's goodness??? We are never in the position to question God because He moves with a purpose. The bad things that happen are just manifestations of his power -- so we know what He is capable of. I am only a creature, and I am meant to serve Him...

[DarkEmergence]

@kidasterorig111 Sounds like willing slavery.

[kidasterorig111]

@DarkEmergence LOL It's not slavery if the dude wants to do what you say. Slavery: 1. the condition of a slave; bondage. 2. the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution. 3. a state of subjection like that of a slave: He was kept in slavery by drugs. 4. severe toil; drudgery. (By dictionary(dot)com) :D

[DarkEmergence]

@kidasterorig111 Right, you're only accepting another being as being above you whom you were born to serve and whose orders and actions you have no place to question.

Sounds peachy.

[kidasterorig111]

@DarkEmergence LOL

Yes?

[maksymgontar]

@mercyflush101 If you a man of reason, consider: I will be a hypocrite if I, a Christian believer, throw away Holy Bible, a wisdom of God, a dogma of faith, and will try to defend my believes using my own average wisdom.

"If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." (John 12:47-48)

[ChristianDefence]

Shouldn't the atheists (I say atheists, being the majority of commentators here) listen to both sides, instead of pouncing to their own preferential confirmation biases? Dr Sam Harris and Dr William Lane Craig are both respectable men in their professions. Funny how people seem to think they're more logical than peer-reviewed philosophers like Dr Craig.

[saintpine]

@ChristianDefence "Shouldn't the atheists...listen to both sides

Considering 95% of the world population having gone through religious indoctrination, I would suggest that the atheist counter arguments be indoctrinated in the same way.

"Funny how people seem to think they're more logical than peer-reviewed philosophers like Dr Craig."

Peer reviewed WHAT? are you joking?

My doctor has a Ph.D and a few specializations, but I would never ask his advice about my car engine.

[ChristianDefence]

@saintpine Your statements simply does not stand in the face of scrutiny.

1. If the issue is indoctrination, your solution is... more indoctrination? Seem more like a knee-jerk reaction than a proper valid solution.

2. WLC has qualifications that extend this 500 word limit, but most importantly, one that includes a PhD in philosophy - so it's only natural you would ask philosophical questions.

3. It appears you're prejudiced with your preferential confirmation biases. Proving my point exactly.

[maksymgontar]

@skrumf1 thank you! I'm sure he is well educated person etc, but he seems to have lack of competence in area, and that was my point of "ignorant". How he can criticise Christianity without studing it's fundaments - Holy Bible? One simple example, a first question he asks: "Why God is not helping people when they pray?" Answer is obviouse if someone care about look into New Testament. See Matthew 17:19-21, Matthew 15:28, Mark 5:34, Luke 18:42

[mercyflush101]

@maksymgontar I am an atheist and I have read the bible from cover to cover and attended church until I was 18. My point to you would be this: When arguing against an atheist like myself you belittle your argument when you try and use passages of the bible to defend yourself and argue "read the bible and you will understand". The bible is a plagarised, hammed together book of hear say written by uneducated men a generation after "christ" existed. You get nowhere by referencing the bible.

[maksymgontar]

"An inteligent argument"? Mr. Sam Harris is so emotional unstable but so ignorant at the same time... :) Sam, go and steal someone's car on the street, then go to police station and say "Please, Mr. Policeman, don't put me to the jail, I had no idea about law".

[soildmoose]

@maksymgontar What?

[skrumf1]

@maksymgontar It was a very intelligent argument. Maybe you should watch it again and pause it when he speaks the words you don't understand and look them up.

Cheers.

[smithie13]

@skrumf1 lol that's funny

[BelieveNoGod]

Seems like 'Dr' Lame Vague don't listen to what Harris are saying at all.

But that's the believers way, isn't it ?

"I don't care what you say, because my mind is set, I have all the answers, and I don't need to listen to reason and logic."

[ganados0]

@BelieveNoGod It's funny he's said no amount of evidence can convince him he's wrong. I found that out at Debuking christianity.

[JediMedic89]

William Lane Craig is the "Spin Doctor." All he does is talk in circles.

[Gazzar]

One person is Dr. William Lane Craig

[bournesh]

@Gazzar "Dr" William Lane Craig

[warren52nz]

More on God being mysterious @4:15 but the whole video is recommended:

watch?v=y-RJeqyh-vI

[ubernaffa]

Oh my, the audience can laugh... Ish.

[Birdieupon]

You do realise this entire argument is question-begging? He speaks of "horrors" and "evils" without defending his own moral landscape - which Craig had shown just minutes before - to be completely incoherent. To that, Harris said literally nothing.

Same Futureplanet's comment below. He calls it "evil" but appears to have bought into Harris' circular red herrings.

Harris should be ashamed of his performance, especially having charged $25,000 for it.

[MrDarkbloom]

@Birdieupon A few questions for you: 1. What is 'incoherent' about Harris' Moral Landscape? 2. How did you personally come to believe in God?

[BigMikeMcBastard]

@Birdieupon Harris explained his beliefs as being essentially that "wrong" actions are those which do not contribute to a human well-being. Craig claims Harris's view of morality is wrong simply because somehow the only way that objective morals can exist is if there's a god. Period. He asserts it and expects it to be taken at face value. That's hardly showing Harris's views as being incoherent.

Do you think Craig speaks at these things for free? Does ANYONE speak at these for free?

[warren52nz]

@Birdieupon "He speaks of "horrors" and "evils" without defending his own moral landscape"

Sam Harris speaks about the Atheist moral landscape in many other videos, he was speaking directly to Craig's view on the issue.

How can anyone deny the truth put forward by Sam Harris in this video? You can look up what he says, it's all true; the horrors in the bible, the outdated morality in there, the unjust destiny of people who haven't even heard of Jesus Christ. It's OBJECTIVELY immoral.

[kidasterorig111]

@warren52nz LOL

In the bible all those was what people did, NOT what people should do.

LOL

It's like that time one dude tried to argue with me b/c he said bible was violent. I asked how then guess what he tells me... He gives me a chapter in the bible ONLY DESCRIBING A BATTLE, if you give a verse that only describes what happened not what we should do then I believe your argument is as easy to refute as Sam Harris's argument above in the video.

:D

[kidasterorig111]

@warren52nz

"God is horrible because he killed MILLIONS of kids"

Makes as much sense as saying "Doctors are horrible b/c they kill BILLIONS of bacteria"

(Caps supposed to mean as a word of comparison and... stuff)

[warren52nz]

@kidasterorig111 "God is horrible because he killed MILLIONS of kids"

Makes as much sense as saying "Doctors are horrible b/c they kill BILLIONS of bacteria"

I don't know where those quotes came from but are you seriously equating killing bacteria with killing people???

[kidasterorig111]

@warren52nz LOL

Yeah I had no other analogies.

Then again... morality isn't my top specialty.

[warren52nz]

@kidasterorig111 "Then again... morality isn't my top specialty"

Haha. Yeah morality is over-rated. 8^)

Just kidding. Well, BIBLICAL morality certainly is!!!

[kidasterorig111]

@warren52nz LOL

Nope.

Can't argue right now i'm following Pac-Marquez fight so I won't be thinking about these things until fight is over.

I am not ducking.

[kidasterorig111]

@warren52nz LOL ( I forgot to reply)

Give me an example and it better be a good one b/c I am so bored from horrible arguments.

[warren52nz]

@kidasterorig111 Sorry, an example of what?

[kidasterorig111]

@warren52nz LOL

An example why biblical morality is horrible or something else that you might have in mind.

[warren52nz]

@kidasterorig111 "An example why biblical morality is horrible "

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon.... The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18)

How's that

[kidasterorig111]

@warren52nz LOL

You weirdo this was a prophecy meaning "something that WILL happen" in the future and guess what it is happening now. People suicide bombing in middle east, brothers against brothers in philippines. Prepare for yo' futah!!!

XD

P.S. I have no idea why you chose that verse.

[redchango]

@Birdieupon - He does defend his Moral Landscape, in his first speech. Besides, anyone touting William Lane Craig as the "winner" of this debate ought to be seriously reconsider what they think "winning" means. William Lane Craig's most lasting legacy isn't his philosophy, it's his high school debate tactics and inability to defend his own god. If you'll notice, Craig will only behind deism, not Christianity.

[Birdieupon]

You do realise this entire argument is question-begging? He speaks of "horrors" and "evils" without defending his own moral landscape - which Craig had shown just minutes before - to be completely incoherent. To that, Harris said literally nothing.

Same Futureplanet's comment below. He calls it "evil" but appears to have bought into Harris' circular red herrings.

Harris should be ashamed of his performance, especially having charged $25,000 for it.

[Futureplanet]

Craig's philosophy is insidiously evil.  Great to hear it pointed out so eloquently.

[Futureplanet]

@tuggleprentiss That sounds like complete rubbish to me. Surely he was talking metaphorically and you are taking him out of context delibertely to undermine him. Shame on you.

[tuggleprentiss]

Futureplan- Then look at his book (The End of Faith pp. 128-129) and decide for yourself. There is certainly nothing to imply anything he said was a metaphor. He clearly said if an Islamist regime ever acquires long-range nuclear weaponry that a preemptive nuclear first strike against them "may be the only course of action available to us, given what Islamists believe." If you don't have the book, just look on Sam's website under "Response to Controversy" where he tries to do damage control

[Adamalgorithm]

@tuggleprentiss Well I do not see anything wrong with his statement. Of course, if I believe that someone is pointing a gun at me and readying himself to shoot, I am going to act preemptively. This is what police officers do sometimes and our courts of justice understandably accept that fact that such action can be rationally justified. What exactly is your problem?

[tuggleprentiss]

@Adamalgorithm You don't have a problem with using a nuclear first strike? When police officers shoot, they aim at bad guys, not whole populations.

[Adamalgorithm]

@tuggleprentiss This is false analogy. When people are at war a lot of soldiers and civilians die even though they are not "bad guys" per se, yet we still go to war and feel justified in shooting innocent German soldiers and civilians (during 2WW). Your comment implies that war is never justified, which is a sign of utter naivete.

[tuggleprentiss]

@Adamalgorithm I understand that some wars are necessary. Preemptive nuclear first strikes are not wars. You are really okay with using a preemptive nuclear first strike? If so, that's scary.

[mellowmark1]

@Futureplanet

Bullshit.