Alan Watts tells the story of Zen Master Suibi

[nick11ification]

See things as they are.

[pedinkus]

Pass me that chin rest....

[meandolg]

Just see everything as it is.

[imbamashmallow]

i think this means there is no secret teaching

[jeffbriggs1987]

"I" don't get it...

[TheAccidentalMonk]

Always amusing to see comment arguments on videos like this. Clearly some people struggle to learn much from that which they've just viewed.

[Zachdudeio2]

mindfuck

[natmanprime]

look up "fawlty towers john cleese" on YT

[ralu4mike]

LOL

[sharperguy]

Sounds like a koan to me.

[Zepherian]

Tall or short, they're still the same thing.

Did I get it right?

[missionpupa]

@Zepherian "What a tall one that is, what a short one that is"

its about different things having a purpose in itself. what is considered, better or worst is just our perception.

[deneco4]

@missionpupa I couldn't have said it better myself. And I got it right away but was trying to put it into these words. I'd say we all grow differently...but we all grow up.

[Mistagamebrain]

@Zepherian There is no wrong or right my friend, there is and is not, the idea is so simple, its complicated

[selvmordspilot]

wow

[tobo86]

@Teszchk haha really, only two options? Why did my comment get several thumbs up?

[preemptivestrike20]

@tobo86 Idiots are numerous, that's why.

[tobo86]

@preemptivestrike20 this may seem irrelevant, but Kanye, do you like fishsticks?

[tobo86]

@Teszchk Easy. Bigger is better. Can't believe I didn't spot it straight away!

[moqutpar]

@hatton314 You are wise.

[Mrpufftable]

I've listened to Alan's video's looking for my own benefit. For me this story is so straight forward and it makes me laugh that people (similar to me) are looking for a hidden meaning...when the answer is clear to see. Now i can happily listen to Alan without looking for something to get

[attalal]

@Mrpufftable Well, just so you know, it' isn't as clear to others as it may be to you. Knowing this prevents ME from laughing about it.

[tobo86]

Ohhh I get it now! So simple! He's saying the tall one is better because it is bigger

[tobo86]

I don't get it, was Suibi a five year old who liked to point at things and describe them?

[The7thCircuit]

>>>implying there ever is a true spiritual plateau

[Anuranpostage]

@The7thCircuit

>>>implying there isn't only a plateau that everyone already has

[levo75]

@Anuranpostage >implying implications

[jimiburntoes]

zen=the person you are when you have stopped thinking about who you are.

The personality is a millimeter thin and underneath is the true self, the self that connects us all togeather. Our experiences and likes and dislikes only shape a false mask, a mask that sperates us from eatchother. Why rely on a mask that sperates when we have infinatley more in common with each other as human beings. The realisation that behind the facade we are all the same and one is enlightenment.

[Anuranpostage]

@jimiburntoes zen=also the person you are when you haven't stopped anything.

[biggerthenreligion]

@jimiburntoes You can see this, the masks purpose is to ultimately make us seem different from each other, people don't rely on it rather it is intentionally made for this purpose. Not that it matters as talk of Zen is almost opposing it's essence, I do feel it would more be defined to say 'EVERYTHING is one' rather than "we are all the same", though 'we are all the same' is not technically incorrect from a Zen perspective. Out of interest all should listen to the Zen Bones Alan Watts talk

[TheLetsbegin]

From one another we grow together, or we divide?

What has happened?

We have been divided!

[TheLetsbegin]

I am another you!

[Cuddrow]

@TheLetsbegin Just as much as you are another I.

[TheLetsbegin]

@Cuddrow Exactness; meaning what? Peace :)

[seigneurvoland666]

there is no short without tall

[archangel777]

LOL I love the drawing/animation for this lecture. It cracks me up! XD

[251108openyoureyes]

He means enlightenment (devine knowledge) The taller bamboo shoot harvests more light from the sun than the shorter ones.

[grinnersaok]

What until there is 'no ONE around'.

'That is a tall ONE, that is a short ONE'... It is all one.

[adzug]

what the hells that all mean

[davechuck]

Most Zen Koans like this are intentionally unsolvable with reason, yet designed to make you ponder. The lesson is something of a trick, to show how Buddhist "enlightenment" can't be apprehended with words, reason or conscious thought. It can only be experienced, in a flash of insight. Pondering paradox is a type of meditaion in Rinzai Zen, to hopefully trigger such a flash of intuition.

[typeclash]

I dont understand it. What did he mean?

[zthetha]

I thought, when the monk returned to the vacated room and said,"There's no one around now," - that the master would say "Oh yes there is - you are still around!"

[staalman]

@zthetha

Same thought here...

[zthetha]

@staalman thanks

[moqutpar]

If the answer is that there is no real difference in things... how can I make it so I see what I want to see? (Even though I know that this is already the case) What I mean is how can I bring myself to enjoy more and suffer less?

[crobio19]

@moqutpar

Who is the you that is suffering ?

[mu5icaddict2]

@moqutpar Enjoy suffering.

[moqutpar]

@mu5icaddict2 the mind that wants...

[weepingpirate]

@moqutpar meditation

[davechuck]

Direct experience, non-dual observation, and relativity all figure in there somewhere. The old masters would have been tailoring the teachings to the individual student, as opposed to giving stock answers. Which is also why he said "wait til no one is around".

[CBGB42]

... Wat? What does that have to do with anything?

[moocowpong1]

What may not be apparent here is that bamboo often forms clonal colonies of varying sizes. The two bamboo shoots the master pointed at were probably in fact the same organism, connected invisibly below the ground and sharing water and nutrients. Casts the story in a different light, no?

[moqutpar]

@moocowpong1 This may indeed be the answer... for in reality we are all from the same essence (quantum vibrations)... so seeing difference in things causes us to forget our true nature.

[blackcrow6667]

Same substance, just different shapes and sizes.

[lifesabitchfuckit]

i get it!! there IS no secret!

[33Barker]

@lifesabitchfuckit

Well, being "aware" of the present moment, would be the secret. But "thinking" about what you see in the present moment or "what the secret is" won't help you see it. Because it is silence. And when he points to the tall and short bamboo, he is showing that you need to "define" something as Tall in order for something to be Short. If one or the other didn't exist, then there would be no need for the "word."

[33Barker]

@lifesabitchfuckit

And by showing the example with the bamboo, where the guy wanted to have "definitions(words)(labels)" on everything, he was missing it. Because "words" aren't what it is, it just is. It is everything in the present moment.

[brooklynborn]

Kwats!!

[Johnnybeak]

Great Video ... Thank You

[Johnnybeak]

Just as it IS ... Blue sky .. white cloud ... rain on the roof ... direct experience without the experiencer ... You cant have something without nothing ... Emptiness is none other than form Form is none other than emptiness... Satori

[nonconservative]

everything is relative - einstien

[grimmspottir]

You can't have the tall bamboo without the short bamboo.

[666kerk666]

"Wait until no one is around..."

"What a tall one... What a short one..."

[EveryTimeV2]

no secret, but that bamboo sure is interesting

[bassman444]

We live in the world of the here and now, yet we try to live as if that weren't true. By asking the question, the student was assuming that the truth lay apart from him, that it is other. The zen master's answer forced the student to understand that we live in this world only; enlightenment is at hand, as cobrio said.

[prophetofdoom]

@ :30 Suibi is a stick figure then @ :37 he suddenly gains a lot of weight lol!

[Luke4Luck]

All the theories on what HE was thinking, what were HIS intentions are just other ways of looking closer and closer at the FINGER. Do not analyse the finger. Look at what it's pointing to.

[AtheistAnarchoRudi]

i think it means that the secret is that everyone is completely unique, yet completely the same.

[journeytoself]

Haha, that gives a whole new meaning to me of the saying - "Teach through example".

[jack7474]

that was great. I like your drawings!:)

[kancerzx]

This is deep

[dani19720368]

haha yea im not sure if i wouldve understood it so well without your beautiful explanatory drawings! ;)

[GHOSTRIDERAIB]

thank you for putting this up

[tookool4school]

someone explain this to me, all i know is i love Alan Watts and those pictures were cute. lol

[GHOSTRIDERAIB]

what is there to explain. what is the difference of the video and someone like me explaining it to you. the video and i are both just going to be saying the same thing in the end. (the answer is in the 2nd and 3rd sentence. have fun)

[ArizonaDelRio]

Sounds like a big, fucking cop-out to me.

[DarthHuru]

If you understand, things are just as they are.

if you don't understand, things are just as they are.

[bunnybooties]

It is what it is and it just is.

[terransage]

I give up. Every time I'm just about to become enlightened, the phone rings.

[BreakingTheBanality]

haah

[VonDenHottentotten]

@terransage And that still didn't enlighten you?

[terransage]

@VonDenHottentotten As soon as I admit that the ringing of the phone did cause me to become enlightened, I am no longer enlightened. So I'm forced to say no; I'm still the same pathetic robot of a human I always was, fully believing the illusion of what we call reality. And by saying that, I become enlightened again. But now that I've said I'm enlightened, I'm not enlightened anymore.  Damn!.

[joneselius]

@terransage Ha, you can't give up what you already own!

[jamaiscompris]

@terransage get rid of the phone.

[terransage]

@jamaiscompris But then, when I do become enlightened, I wouldn't be able to call anyone to brag about it.

[natmanprime]

@terransage i know, in fact, since i've become enlightened, you don't have to, since you're me obviously...

so do something else...

therefore DON'T BECOME ENLIGHTENED

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO­O

X P

[pumitaproductions]

@natmanprime hate to burst your bubble but when you're enlightened there is no "i" to be enlightened. if you say "i am enlightened" it means you still see people as egos, separate beings. still in the realm where "i am smaller, i am bigger" etc.... the plane of ego's. your ego's got you trapped brother :P

[natmanprime]

@pumitaproductions hate to burst ur bubble but when u said "you're enlightened" even hypothetically, there is no "I" to be enlightened. So u cant say that ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN SILLY RULES

sorry uv burst ur own bubble

besides the rest of that stuff doesnt make sense anyway

the self is not the ego

the ego is the idea of the self

so u still have a self

its just 1 with everything thats all

put it this way: if theres no "i" to be enlightened, u cant GET enlightened can U?

sorry

[pumitaproductions]

@natmanprime how can you say "1 with everything"? if you were actually one with everything and not just claiming to be, you would say i am everything :P and yea, YOU cant get enlightened... just everything is everything. stuff.

[natmanprime]

@pumitaproductions how can i say that? ask the WHOLE OF BUDDHISM your a bit lost here mate give it a rest dont embarass yourself ok look u are one with your body but u are NOT your body see the difference? u focus on a point in the sea that point is one with the sea but its NOT the sea see? btw i like how ur overlooking that whole self pwnage thing lol just focus on that one phrase i made!

[pumitaproductions]

@natmanprime the problem is ur still in the realm of reason and logic... using all these logical steps dont get anyone anywhere.. the ones who fall into that trap enlighten their ego, its false-enlightenment. i had it too, for a while.. not that it matters anyway, the whole enlightenment thing is a pretty big joke. in reality everyone is as enlightened as everyone else, jsut some people are more convinced their more enlightened.. and yes i am just fucking with you, none of this matters anyway

[natmanprime]

@pumitaproductions oh, is that my problem?

u make an idiot out of yourself, take on buddha himself by questioning his phrase "one with everything"

and then tell ME that i'm using "too much logic"???!?

and now, having made a fool of yourself a second time, presume to tell me about the distinction between false enlightenment and real enlightenment???!?

as if you're so fucking wise

ur an egomaniac, foolish and your projecting your ego onto me and anyone who'll listen

ur fucking with yourself lol

[pumitaproductions]

@natmanprime probably am

[natmanprime]

@pumitaproductions no u DEFINITELY are

THEN u'll be making some progress

; )

[pumitaproductions]

@natmanprime GOOD! cant wait to make PROGRESS! THEN ILL BE ENLIGHTENED!!! HURRAY

[natmanprime]

@pumitaproductions hahahaa

ur very funny

u seem to be imploding in a john cleese kinda way

still fucking yrself i guess

[pumitaproductions]

@natmanprime i dunno who john cleese is

[rodrigojoseunb]

@terransage LoL

[SiliconBong]

*gives terransage answering machine, that plays an endless stream of bells till the person ringing forgets what they were going to say and hangs up.

[moqutpar]

@terransage Just realize that there is no phone ;)

[terransage]

@moqutpar Oh no, there's a phone all right. I see it right over there. Great, I just gave away how woefully unenlightened I am. With my luck I'll "awaken" one minute before I get run over by a train.

[NeoSapienist]

its the middle way,

between the tall, rich, excess, and the short, poor, unfortunate. that's the key.

[Luke4Luck]

No. You are wrong.

Now, don't get angry on me but go and search for the story of first transmission of dharma done by the Buddha (It' the story with the flower). It's the same situation there. You will understand then.

[NeoSapienist]

lets see.... the story you refer to is the one where the buddha hold us the flower and only Mahakashapa smiles?

[Luke4Luck]

Yes, exactly. You have the same thing here unly with something other than a flower. The guy wanted a description, formula, definition but the master just show him what realy IS, just IS.

[NeoSapienist]

Thanks for sharing your view with me Luke. I didn't relate the two for a few reasons man... one- here it's comparative between a tall and a short bamboo. another, in the story you cite- The buddha holds up the flower admiring its superficial and temporal beauty in the moment- that the flower just IS beautiful. and Mahakashapa smiles. but thanks... i duno why you got censored. lol

[Luke4Luck]

Ok. That's the last one and I'll shut up :)

What stops you from relating them is, in my view, again your overinterpretation. Why do you say that buddha admired the beuty of the flower? It's your view on what the buddha way thinking. How do you know that? It's, again in my view only, your projection. Stop adding thories. The buddha sat there for a long time and then just held up a flower. That was it. Nothing else. All the opinions, thories on what it meant and what buddha thought are yours.

[1zenAwhile]

You mean there's a difference between what it is and what we think it is?

(just being snarky)

I like to experience Zen as engaging the clutch between the gears of thought. Or to regard the behavior of my mind the way I regard the behavior of my liver: it's just an organ doing its job, but I don't have to get all wrapped up in its actions (which occur naturally without the imposition of my will one way or the other).

[khtervola]

In life we all the time compete. If we base our ability to live fully on successes and on the failures of others, we will be never able to live fully since we always fall short on some scale if not on all. The trick is to live fully while not being perfect on each scale, in each perspective...

Tao-Te-Ching says something similar.

I guess that the way to achieve this is to follow your nature: your feelings and your own understanding, your own perceptions, and not to guide your life by words.

[0no1one]

You never wondered how the easern world could be so far ahead of us 1000 years ago, yes so far behind us only a few hundred years later? It because of their philosophy, and the fact that they never developed empirisicm like the west did 500ish years ago. They believed the notion that certainty could come from certainty, and therfore stagnated in most of their cultural and technological development. Nothing of this rings a bell to any of you? You are consecrating outdated ideas, seemingly by hype

[phobosx12]

empire building goes way back before 500 years ago, Xerxes? Alexander the Great? and if by development you mean going over board with it and just as if you get too much sun you get skin cancer if you are overly 'progressive' with technological development, without matched emotional development you will be faced with self destruction

[0no1one]

check up the word "empiricism" before making a comment like that ;) has nothing to do with empires...

[phobosx12]

my bad and got another one for ya tho, zen is nothing but what you call 'empiricism', zen is literally based around an experience that is not to be abstracted because it would veil the thing itself, so maybe we are dealing with 2 different 'sorts' of empiricism, because the west is laborious in its pursuit of what is consider concrete knowlegde, eastern philosophy is concerned with concrete knowledge too such as, the experience of cosmic consciousness, it is misconcieved in the west as abstract

[faeriedebora]

I interpret this as the monk already 'knows' what the 'secret' is, just as he already 'knew' that the tall bamboo was tall and the short was short.

[adamh0963]

this stuff really confuses me when you guys say it but wen alan says it,it becomes clear to me :)

[Fishmungaloyd]

The large bamboo stick will be eaten first by Kikomitsu magic panda. So someone with an enlarged ego also gets eaten by Kikomitsu. And inside magic panda gets itchy, so humble man scratch him with small bamboo in the rear.

[jamescat1]

my reply would have been: 'long, short, Ok- lets go play in the water weeee!'

[0no1one]

lol, what utter crap! you can tell that these people have done alot of poppy, and the western world forgets that and think their enligthened. try being high/stoned for a couple of years and you will sound just as cryptic as the scholar asians through time. they didnt have a clue and were high as fuck :D

[GreggCorrr]

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't makes sense

[0no1one]

Feel free to point it out for me

[GreggCorrr]

the master is (extremely subtly) explaining to the monk that differentiation, exactly what he is doing, is what he must not do. A piece of bamboo is just a piece of bamboo. An enlightened one sees no one person more or less enlightened than any other person

[0no1one]

Well, I do! And this is not enligthening for me, it brings nothing usefull to the table. I get alot more out of the real theories around relativity, which I can actually use on a daily basis, and which actually explains how something works instead of just asserting that it simply is. Thanks for trying anyway

[GreggCorrr]

You're welcome, hopefully some day you can learn to help yourself and maybe deflate your ego a little.

[joneselius]

@0no1one So if it isn't simply, then what is it?

[Zaphodox]

Actually very few religious sects used intoxicating sacrament. The practice is more common in Hindu than Buddahism as far as I understand it. 

There is a famous tale of a monk on a mountain who was given a very large dose of acid by (i think) Leary. After an hour or so they asked the monk what he could see. The monk replied:

"Is something supposed to have happened?".

[KomicGenius]

People, don't you get it? The monk is observing WHAT IS, he never defined what it was he was observing. That is, limiting the beauty and majesty of a thing by placing a label on it, or attaching a word (bamboo) to it.

Buddhism at its core never seeks to define who or what "GOD" is. It only points you to the way.

[vajrastorm]

It's not about bamboos; it's not about the words or the logic. Suibi pointed at the moon. Monk saw the moon. No one can say his experience.

ah.

[zetetic0void]

One bamboo floating in space - you don't know whether to label it as tall or short.

Two bamboos floating in space next to each other - you can say one is short and one is tall.

Have the bamboo changed or has your mental projection onto reality changed?

Humans put things in boxes and then confuse the boxes as "Reality".

Comparison is like being on the rim of the wheel... round and round. Non-attachment to relative things is being at the centre of the wheel... calm, motionless.

[blitzkrieg19031]

Obviously there is no answer which can be stored in memory. He just pointed to the bamboos and said what he said at that particular time.

[MrLesWhite]

The monk said I don't understand and he replied.

What a tall one that is?

What a short one that is?

The answer is "that is" all the same bamboo in the same garden just in different stages of growth (enlightenment)

[agnivega]

Nope, it's that all things are defined by those under or above them. It was to say the opposite, everyone is enlightened, comparing yourself hinders your acknowledgment that you're enlightened because you've said you are below or above someone, enlightenment is saying. "We are already 100% bamboo, it doesn't matter in comparison, for we are all 100% bamboo in the first place. you may be taller bamboo, but you are no more bamboo than I am."

[crobio19]

Agreed, like the story of the student who asks his teacher the difference between an enlightened man vs unenlightened. The teacher replies that the unenlightened man sees a difference.

[0no1one]

But then he (the teacher) is pointing out that there is a difference, and that he sees it... Cmon, it takes a kid like me 30 sec to deconstruct this, and it has 9thumbs up. And dont say its not a contridition, because it definitively is if you bother to think about it before you swallow it raw..

[crobio19]

the teacher is pointing out that the difference only exists in the mind of the "unenlightened man" . The unenlightened man believes himself to be unenlightened. It's a difference in perspective.

[Luke4Luck]

Oh really? And I thought he was pointing to was there before him. Silly me.

Stop analysing the finger and look at what IS. Just a sugestion :)

[DoNotBeHighandMighty]

@crobio19

Very true, because an unenlightened man sees everything as separate. Very well said.

[ZenBarracuda]

What I get from this story is that we constantly judge people as being good or bad, smart or stupid, nice or nasty. The Zen Master illustrates how acceptance might be achieved.

[egatch]

You're thinking too much.

This "ultimate truth" is merely a simple subjective reflection of the present moment.

Almost like a haiku.

"The wind is breathing."

"Splash!"

...all ultimate truths.

[levo75]

Cool story bro.

[Vicarious987]

Does this also have to do with the labels we assign to the world? The bamboo wasn't short or tall until we called it that.

[Jonnygraham24]

yeah and the reason everything is interconnected is simply because we are all one

[Lion117]

Relativity.

[roosplace]

Have been studying meditation in Myanmar, Thailand, Java, Bali. Often lecture at Buddha Guna temple in Bali. If you need more info just google Vipassana. Several different methods, you need to find the one that suits you best...

[bobbywise]

There is no short without the tall. The short is not short out of it's own right.

[Lion117]

or Discernment.

[EgoFracture00]

=] nice

[firechinchilla]

wow.i don't get it :(

[kusalaviro]

It relates to Buddhist meditation. Especially Vipassana. Seeing things as they really are begins with the most basic observations. With the applied effort of this type of awareness then insight starts to develop, then, with much more effort, enlightenment, when we overcome the attachment to this temporary illusion. Peace.

[jellybeansinc]

you blew my mind

[creoltein]

you're all useless morons!

worse webpage page in internet history.

[warwickharris]

oh my, WOTT a dastardly boring & supercilious old fart, devoid of REAL humour! ;-(

as lame as the mule he must have bedded every night LMAO HAHAHAHA

[backshortly]

Ah Warwickharris thank you so much for your enlightening comment .. bot have you shone a light on things .. I wish I could hear you speaking for longer .. I feel I would learn so much ..

[warwickharris]

bumptious man. dangerously arrogant and proud! shame! :(

[WKRPinCINN]

and then he said IM RICK JAMES BITCH!!!

[silverbackman]

Humor and the fine details of life. And then laughing at the fine details of life, because damn it is really funny. HEHE! ;-)

[Alexandriaa90]

LOL

[gvdan8]

Very good point.. I know some people that would have a brain aneurysm thinking about this.

[planetdarwin]

just had a mind boner

[eldiagrama]

i dont understand.. can some one explain it to me/? or is it one of those things who, by being meaningless are as meaningfull as posible?

[HiAdrian]

The message is understood as a feeling, not as a thought. If you didn't "get" it, then... well maybe next time.

[hamfari]

take magic mushrooms then you´ll know ;)

[37punchesintheface]

haha so very true...i discovered the "secret teaching" while on mushrooms...there is a strong connection between a psilocybin trip and zen enlightenment. but HiAdrian is right...i can tell you that the secret teaching is simply to know the secret teaching and not speak of it, but in telling you i have proved i do not know it.

[boyhitscar123456]

the mountain and the clouds

tehehe

[followurbliss01]

Yucanttouchthis -

Sir, you can't have the short without the tall, vice-versa. Each one is co-dependent.

[AhamBrahman]

exactly