Dr David Clarke discusses new MOD UFO release 20/Oct/08

[raggedmoorlander]

These files that were released by the MoD a couple of years ago (2008) contain many UFO incidents that remain unexplained. The missile-shaped object sighted from the cockpit of the Italian airliner over Kent in 1991 is, as Clarke acknowledges, 'a genuine UFO' i.e. an object that remains unidentified and has no obvious convention explanation. The 1956/57 case (which emerged in the 1980s during RAF Manston reunion) is intriguing. The pilot gets a radar lock-on an the things just shoots off.

[Rasher1111111]

Oh, I wouldnt disagree with that at all!

[raggedmoorlander]

The pilot has been chasing this thing, has a lock-on with his radar, gets within fifteen miles or so,then is ordered by ground control to fire a salvo of missiles. He queries it and it is confirmed. Then, just as he is selecting his weapons, the 'thing' shoots off at fanstastic speed - as if it had picked up the intention to attack. Coincidence it may or may not be on this occasion but an ability to interact with human consciousness has been noted before.

[Mucky1little2me3]

Anyone who purports to know the truth is misguided just like their religious cousins.

The truth though will out and like many people I believe that day will be within our lifetimes.

Dr David Clarke will not be a part of it

[raggedmoorlander]

@Mucky1little2me3 Do you not suspect, though, that 'the truth' when it is finally realised will not be understandable by the masses - like quantum physics or Kantian metaphysics, say, is not immediately understandable. Aspects of the UFO phenomenon are just so weird that it suggests to me that the solution to the enigma, when it comes, will not be understandable within the particular framework of reality our age is currently locked into but will require a new paradigm or framework of reality.

[Mucky1little2me3]

@raggedmoorlander

That seems to me to be an intelligent and natural argument.

I hate it because it plays into the hands of the elitists and goes against my my belief that truth is classless but yeah;

Not only will the truth be available only to those that at are able to reason beyond the mundane and see the unseen, it will also be available to those that are nothing of the sort but in positions of power and the truth must be forced upon them.

The religious overtones are inescapable.

[Mucky1little2me3]

@Mucky1little2me3

I think the framework you are referring to, for the a paradigm shift in the belief system of the masses is labelled New Ageism?

Or at least it is a departure from the pursuit of material wealth toward spiritual enlightenment.

I guess we could insert a million words here and debate political systems and idealism but that would just get in the way of what you have already said so well.

I don't expect schools to start classes on the merits of being Human tomorrow

[Mucky1little2me3]

@Mucky1little2me3

Ultimately I know that even the truth, as I experience it, will only be a reflection in a strategically placed mirror but I am naive enough to think that maybe I can extrapolate from there the reality behind the mirror - if that makes sense?

What I am trying to say is we can not know the reality beyond our perception any better than we can know the reality of death but we can be open to the idea that our perception of reality is very narrow indeed.

[raggedmoorlander]

@Mucky I'm not sure what 'class' means anymore, and I live in traditionally the most class-conscious country, the UK, but there's nothing to stop anyone getting into any area of inquiry. The rich and powerful 'elite' - de facto rulers behind-the-scenes - will only be interested if it helps them become even more rich and powerful and more able to control and manipulate the masses. In any case, new paradigms don't come into being overnight; those who see the world in the old way have to die off.

[Mucky1little2me3]

@raggedmoorlander

True but asking the questions is easy, getting the answers not so.

I'm not sure that people have to die off to change an old belief system though - it just takes the right person with the right message to change things.

Only those who are deeply invested in dogma will be left behind.

My feeling is that the World will be unrecognisable 50 years from now - the socio political landscape and technological aspects anyway.

It is becoming obvious the current way is not the future.

[raggedmoorlander]

@Mucky1 Well I can't think of any paradigmatic change that has occurred suddenly. Of course, individuals have sudden insights and epiphanies, but not whole societies. Copernicus's 'Revolutions of the Sheres' took about a hundred years to be generally accepted, Darwin's ideas at least many decades (and are still not accepted in large parts of US)... QM still hasn't filtered through to other scientific disciplines. As Bohr said: 'Those who have the allegiance of the young, hold the future.'

[Mucky1little2me3]

@raggedmoorlander

Imagine there was disclosure tomorrow, there is your paradigm shift.

Changes in society can be effected rapidly when the truths are large enough.

After all if the change in how we view reality is over generations it is not really a paradigm shift - more an expansion of knowledge through extrapolation.

As I say there will always be the dogmatists who are left behind.

Granted such radical changes are rare but then so are events and truths that shift our perception of reality.

[raggedmoorlander]

@Mucky1little2me3 I'm not talking about behavioural changes in society. I mean acquiring a new 'vision of reality'. A disclosure like 'meet ET, folks' would fit perfectly comfortably within our present paradigm. A solution to the enigma that entailed, say, a radical new understanding of the relationship between consciousness and the external world probably would not. It would not be generally understood because it would require a new pair of cognitive spectacles to 'see' it, so to speak.

[Mucky1little2me3]

2 We are being visited by beings with technology far superior to that of our own.

I really do not care to argue whether these beings might be human time travellers, Aliens or even entities from another dimension or parallel Universe.

I rule out visual artefacts from our future caused by some kind of time/space distortion because of the physical evidence - weapons lock, radar tracking. atmospheric and other physical interaction

[Mucky1little2me3]

conditions. The remaining 10% however contain some very compelling cases with very strong evidence to suggest that craft of unknown origin are operating under intelligent control in our skies - motive unknown. If we accept that evidence instead of using ludicrous arguments based on Flogic(flawed logic) in an attempt to explain it away then there can only be two logical explanations.

1 Some humans possess technology far in advance of what we know (this is much more than just experimental aircraft

[Mucky1little2me3]

the phrase was coined by the press after Kenneth Arnold's description of skipping discs. UFO's of all shapes, sizes and colours have been seen for centuries - as far back as we look through any civilization in fact flying objects are depicted in some shape or form.

UFO's are a very real phenomena. I say phenomena because they are likely a combination of different factors.

The only thing I agree with Mr Clarke on is that the vast majority of cases are IFO's or illusions created by atmospheric

[Mucky1little2me3]

Of course that is not the only reason what he is saying is nonsense.

If he cared to even think for one moment or study the history of UFO portrayal in Movies he would quickly realise that the film version of UFO's actually follows the reported phenomena and not the other way around. Flying saucers for example were portrayed in the 50's Movies after the Roswell incident not the other way around. Don't even get me started on the myth that "flying saucers" were only ever witnessed after _

[Rasher1111111]

Well, if it was a once off case of files being destroyed then you could claim error on the part of the M.O.D or U.S.A.F where they genuinely thought the files had been destroyed, but when this sort of thing happens again, and again, where the U.F.O subject is concerned, what conclusion CAN you come to? The only conclusion, that any sane person, could, come to: the military and government are lying, about destruction of documents, in an effort to keep the lid, on the issue.

[Rasher1111111]

AT 8.05 in the above video he mantions the fact that a ufologist queried the M.O.D and the U.S.A.F about the pilots encounter with the ufo where he was ordered to fire on the unknown. The respose from the M.O.D and the U.S.A.F was that all U.F.O files before the 1960s had been destroyed yet here we are today and the these destroyed files have been released into the public domain. How do you explain the fact that they lied about the destruction of these documents?

[raggedmoorlander]

@Rasher1111111 Those in positions of power are not interested in giving information to the public - it's anathema to them. When an interesting UFO case lands on Churchill's desk (we learn from files released under FoI this month) his immediate response is to take measures to cover it up. When information is given to the public it is almost always for the purpose of control and manipulation - and is just as likely to be disinformation or misinformation as information.

[RIPYOUNGD]

they need to let us know ,we deserve to be informed we live here too are we to just act like its allright to be lied to .....?

in this near future all will be known ..we are being preped now for future events

[holysin667]

Leo Zagami is the man with a plan!

[cdenver]

Well in a way he is, what confuses me about him is that he joined them in the first place.

Although...who knows, he may be counter-intelligence OR he could have been a mole the whole time.

[holysin667]

Whatever he truly is, he is very connected to powerful people, and he knows a lot of good information. His advisor mentioned the market crashing in Sept (that was back in April). He also said Obama would go all the way, and that was back when people thought Hillary would be the Dem nominee. He's a mysterious guy with a lot of good information. He is a man to keep an eye on for sure!

[Aztar99]

Unfortunately Leo has now gone over the edge, he is completely nuts now.

He is claiming to be the new Messiah & says the Vatican understands this and agrees.

too bad really he was not to bad in the Project Camelot interview.

[clixpert]

One pilot name Milton Torres was ordered to fire missles at the UFO said he saw the UFO then flew away with the speed reaching 7,600 mph. WOW!

[sim0b]

Yes its illegal to hide information in a democracy. This isnt even the tip of the iceburg. Research the Rendlesham forest incident too. Dont forget that they will release silly/funny old storys/incidents to the masses, just to make the subject look silly to the masses. The news/media should be out their upholding democracy

[cdenver]

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you 100% Information should be freely available to all. And yes the media [aka: Meades in ancient times] cast spells upon the masses and manipulate the truth for their own selfish gain. They told a silly story of the girl who claimed to be from amazon and made a serious joke out of it. That's in the Sirus system and their is a lot of knowledge out there regarding the Sirus system and its relation to alien encounters this planet has had the last 8K yrs

[bigbadjon303]

I went to School with Dave in Sheffield - he's sound

[cdenver]

Happy days mate, he seems like a nice guy too. Nice to have his friend watch his video here :)

All the best!

[akhenaton2012]

Good work my friend.....Thank You

[cdenver]

Thanks for the positive comment mate, may the forces of good be with you!

DOWN WITH NWO!

[exposethenwo2012]

Good stuff mate, not long now and the sheep will be baaing.

[cdenver]

LOL! Cheers...I hope it isn't too long because my dinner is near ready! LOL

[WML08]

Finally they start releasing top secret documents about UFO's. Lets hope other countrys will follow their example.

[cdenver]

Yeah man its about time! Hopefully, fingers crossed! Cheers mate.

[sim0b]

Yes its illegal to hide information in a democracy. This isnt even the tip of the iceburg. Research the Rendlesham forest incident too. Dont forget that they will also release stupid and made up incidents to the masses, just to make the subject look silly to the masses. The news/media should be out their upholding democracy. Millions all over the world are witness to UFOs so why is the MODs files more important?