Steve Forbes Argues for a Flat Tax

[TenaciouslyWinning]

11 people are tax accountants

[coflex09]

iluminatti, scumbag.

[Dogwarrior]

Based on the $46,000 deduction and 17% tax rate... For a family of four IF they made $50,000 they would pay an income tax of only $680. If they made $100,000 they would pay $9,180. If they made $250,000 they would pay $34,680. And if they made a million dollars they would pay $162,180. If they were a rock star or movie star of politician and made 10 million dollars they would pay $1,692,180. I like it. No loop holes for the rich.

[TheDukeljk]

@Dogwarrior how about the low end freeloaders that pay nothing?

[Dogwarrior]

@TheDukeljk The Democrats have the low end guys fooled into thinking they aren't paying any income taxes. The truth is they don't pay taxes on their own income... but pay the incomes taxes for all businesses. Why this matters is Obama can scream I'm only going to tax the rich people... who are the business owners. So when he raises their taxes they just pass the cost of these taxes along to the consumers in higher prices... and some of these consumers are poor. They pay thebuisnesses taxs

[diotrephes]

Did you even listen to the video??? Example: "17% flat tax would apply AFTER generous exemptions", also, "A family of four for example, no tax on your first $46,000 of income, no tax on savings, and no death taxes..."

[TheBrindleBoxer]

The reason we don't have a flat tax is because it isn't a fair tax system. The reason it isn't fair is the economic Law of Diminishing Marginal utility. Let's assume under a flat tax system, everyone pays 20% income tax. Well, paying 20% of a $30,000 a year income hurts a person a LOT more than paying 20% of a $300,000 a year income.

[lvll138inrs]

whats the difference between fair tax and flat tax?

[Dogwarrior]

@lvll138inrs A fair tax is what they are calling a national sales tax.

[tigerhop]

The IRS is bigger than all other programs combined.

[roberttschaefer]

@rangerstrider1 - I must disagree with you. If Forbes was interested in lowering his own tax burden, then the current IRS tax monstrosity is the billionaires best friend, because it allows the rich endless manipulations and shelters of income that you and I do not enjoy. Steve Forbes is one of a handful of billionaires in this country with real character and integrity.

[rwb5397]

Although Mr Forbes does present a system that is fantastically better than our current boondoggle, we should not forget that a flat tax is how the current system started. Not only that it has been re-invented 3x since bieng implemented in 1913. The last ime was in 1986 and we anded up aith a 3 tier flat tax . Nothing changes until we take the power out of the idiots in Washington.Look at the FairTax. No tax on income of any kind. The more you consume the more you pay. Progressive vs Regressive.

[MiHiVidz]

Let me tell you the problem with the flat tax.

If a guy can afford to pay for a Jet in America with 23% sales tax, He can afford to go to another country and just skirt around paying those taxes. I can't go to Mexico for my groceries to avoid paying 23% on them. Nor would I want to. So I'm stuck here in America, paying 4x what I was paying for my sales tax at a local level.

WHAT THE FUCK IS FAIR ABOUT THAT???!

[EDTHEWATERGUY]

I like Ron Paul's tax idea.....no taxes

[nocturnezero]

@EDTHEWATERGUY If you think Ron Paul advocates for abolishing taxes, you've never heard Ron Paul speak.

[EDTHEWATERGUY]

@nocturnezero

I think its you who hasn't listened, he wants to abolish the IRS,(along with other agencies) but he knows its an uphill battle so he has mentioned other transitional tax reduction systems but his eventual goal is no taxes.

[djlazlow1]

Just because the tax code is extremely long and complicated doesn't mean we have to move on to a flat tax rate. While I do agree that starting over would be a good idea, I don't see why a simple progressive taxation solution isn't even proposed. A flat tax will place a huge burden on the middle class! The rich want a flat tax because it's a lesser inconvenience to them.

[mitdevelopment1]

The fairtax.org is the way. There is no tax on business, lowering the cost of living 20% after sales tax. It will make the US the most competitive globally they have ever been. In todays world that is what we need to create more jobs. Eliminate income taxes in total and eliminate the business taxes too. Someone needs to explain that to RocketRitch88. Once you understand it, you will agree it is as perfect a tax as you have ever seen if we have to have a tax and we do need something.

[Salvysahagun]

@mitdevelopment1

ok in Washington state their is already 10%

[EDTHEWATERGUY]

Forbes is pushing a 17% tax if you make more than $45,000,that is a tax cut for the rich. Should be more like 20% if you make more than $100,000 a year or somewhere along those line.Also we need a balanced budget amendment so the taxes dont increase because of reckless government spending.

[RalphCelento]

This is OUTSTANDING...Mr Forbes hits the target dead on. Overhaul the tax and cut down to maybe a few pages from 60,000 pages and $324 Billion annual budget.

[MaudsPas]

Flat tax = tax cut for the rich.

Its what far right wackos like ron paul want.. that or fair tax they are all bull shit.

More word tricks and misleading statistics.

[ocpud2999]

I been doing research on flat vs fair. I think either would be better than what we have. The big issue with fair tax is the 16th amendment which allows the government to collect income tax. You would have to repeal the amendment or else you could have a VAT and income tax like much of Europe has. Of course changing the constitution is not an easy task

[rennerfam22]

Steve Forbes for president!!! 17% sounds great!! You spend you pay. If you want to come into this country illegally and you want to have countless children then you pay the flat tax. I can't wait for this to become law!!!!!!

[SmashMacintosh]

Forbes is the man really know his stuff.

[marssnw]

17 percent would be great. It will never happen thou. Politicians are to corrupt to ever give us or let us keep our earned money. What we really need is for the Government and their workers to be held responsible for their lazy and corrupt workers. Over payed and never work. I shold know my wife works for the government. She says half the workers get away with not even showing up for work and still claiming hours.

[1RedshirtXLG]

@hugobossdb Estonia, Russia and just about all the former soviet satellite countries replaced their tax system with Flat Taxes and their GDP's growth rates are 3-5 times that of our own. About 25 countries in the world have one.

[levthelion]

FIRE every piece of shit IRS Employee!

[levthelion]

hell yea

[carzamerica1]

The flat tax makes the most sense of anything that I have seen, the fair tax wont work and the current system is like he said, full of corruption and is way too complicated,so why no change ? are our senators corrupt? and bribed, i mean lobbied, they live high off the hog and we dont, but we keep putting them in there,stop voting for people who tell you what you want to hear.

We need people with a plan....the flat tax is a start.

[LitheInvestments]

Well put Forbes, which taxes is he talking about exactly? Income Taxes, Property Taxes, Capital Gains Tax, Sales Tax, Death Tax? 

[levthelion]

@LitheInvestments Federal income tax or End of year taxes.

[freespace535]

That's sweet how you can see the flash of where it hits at around 0:37

[Yogaboarder]

SUPPORT YOUR UNIONS

Steve Forbes want's you to work for $5 an hour 80 hours a week, so he can watch is stocks go up, and sail his Yacht all day, like that BP dude.

Union men fought and DIED for our 40hr work week.

Don't let their death be in vain, tell Steve Forbes to "Bite It"

Support UNIONS, or be a Yacht funding slave.

Nothing against Yacht's, just the pricks in the topsiders.

Have a Nice Day ;-)

[ConservativeHealth]

Conservative health tip of the day. DON'T EAT ORGANIC.

The Hudson Institute, a conservative think tank, published a paper titled "The Hidden Dangers in Organic Food."

Hudson is funded by Monsanto. Forbes Magazine named Monsanto it's 2009 Company of the Year. Let's hear it for American agribusiness. Pesticide soaked genetically-modified foods are our future. Go Monsanto!

[donmccracken]

He's got my vote!

[DaveDeShrubber]

Steve Forbes can kiss my ass.

[LoverOfMtnDew]

All for it, but we will wind up with the value added tax. Then we'll all lose except the greedy government.

[petrafied77]

flat tax makes the most sense.17% isnt all that bad. and inheritance tax (better known as death tax), sales tax, food tax, all the other ways the government has of squeezing every penny they can out of people are rediculous. even the fair tax would be good.

[Myxril]

"I believe you should be able to leave the world unmolested by the IRS." Quoted for Truth.

[OnlyTheWeakNeedHelp]

He says everything i want to here flat tax and no inheritance tax.

[RocketRitch88]

The more I learn about Flat Tax the more I like it. I am not a big fan of Fair Tax because there is nothing fair about it. They are simply shifting the tax burden from the consumer onto the business. That is going to hurt small business growth with increased taxation. Small businesses are the lifes blood of this country responsible for 96% of GDP in the US.

[DracoMalfoy87]

96% total GDP or 96% of GDP growth?

[Salvysahagun]

@RocketRitch88

Yet a majority of those small business's are outsourced departments of major corperations.

Example

In Redmond WA their is a company that employees 20 people and they make the web site for American Express... THATS IT

[dirtyperry44]

Man I dont wanna grow up in a country without a flat tax. WE NEED THIS!

[SuperGuitarman69]

Genius!!! I'm on board 10,000,000 %

[phillphall]

this is not a flat tax. a real flat tax of 7 percent on all income, earned or not, would really be simplifying things. this would force our government to balance its budget as well. all 60 thousand pages of the current tax code should be repealed. no graduated income tax. ever. simple plan, no loop holes. you earn it you pay it. this would also make the irs job easier. a first grader could calculate his own taxes. imagine that.

[Sentry353]

@phillphall You're on it! I believe a 10% flat tax on income and capital gain would be better. Couple that with eliminating all the other abusive taxes, no subsidies and no credits and we could be more balanced. Getting the politicians to stop spending us into oblivion is an entirely different subject.

[hoodoo961]

Forbes makes a good point about the tax code being very byzantine and laborious, but the answer is to simplify and edit it, not replace it with a flat tax.

[cpblackangel88]

Flat tax is nice, but Fair Tax is better.

[SouthernFriedHoney]

Fairtax is pure bullshit.

Forbes calls his plan "flat" but its the opposite of flat. Its very high taxes on labor, but no tax on Forbes.

Thats not flat

Don't believe anything Forbes says - ever.

[cpblackangel88]

The Fair Tax can bring America back. Yet I'm also looking at a new land tax to replace the current system.

[SouthernFriedHoney]

Fairtax is pure bullshit farce.  Its own leaders know its a frarce and have avoided all hearings under oath for 13 years -- and will NEVER go to real hearing under oath. They know its pure bullshit.

[cpblackangel88]

You need to really look at the plan as a whole. Now I'm more for a land tax to replace the entire tax code. Also the Fair Tax would have a great economic impact in a positive way.

[RANGERSTRIDER1]

FORBES FOR PRESIDENT 2012 !

[Andrew32488]

@RANGERSTRIDER1

Of course he wants a flat tax. He has around half a billion dollars. He's interested in saving his money and not the money of the average American. He doesn't want to pay his fair share. He doesn't want to be taxed when he dies so he can keep all his money his family. Hence, less money that the rest of us have no chance of earning because it is so concentrated. The Estate Tax benefits over 99% of Americans by allowing our children to have a great chance at prosperity.

[Andrew32488]

@RANGERSTRIDER1

The top 1% loves to brainwash the rest of us by attempting to show that they somehow have the same interest. Trickle down economics has failed us again and was nothing but a scam by the elitists. You don't need 500 million dollars!

[12FlyMe]

My point is -- Forbes calls it a FLAT tax, but it's not flat.

Forbes would shit his polyester pants if there were really a FLAT tax- - if all income had to pay the same. If his money was taxed the same way a self employed guy was taxed, Steve would shit a brick.

That's my point -- Flat taxers call it flat, but really its a massive tax on work, no tax on unearned income.

[12FlyMe]

There is no tax on capital gains UNTIL you get a profit. You have to sell something at a profit, or there is no capital gains.

If you buy a stock and it goes way up -- you don't pay tax on that, until you sell it. And even then the TOP rate is 15% --- with no FICA ever.

SO I don't know how you got taxed on losses.

[12FlyMe]

Flat tax my ass -- Forbes isnt for a flat tax. That's one thing -- but he CALLS this a flat tax -- its ZERO - thats right ZERO for him and his unearned income. ZERO.

DO you fuching understand that ZERO. He would have NO taxes at all on unearned income.

He would have very high taxes on WORK.

He calls that flat -- its a fuching bullshit.

Flat as Dolly Parton 44DDD, flat as Dog the bounty Hunter's wife 54JJJ's.

[lumpagogo]

Not sure-IRS has been robbing me on capital gains even though there were nothing but losses---tax preparers are, as Steve said, no help.

[IainLH]

Flat taxes are bullshit! Im from Scotland and Margaret thatcher introduced a flat tax and there were almost riots! it is so biased towards rich people, its almost unbelievable

[kev3d]

And of course the UK post Thatcher has been growing like crazy and people can afford goods and services like never before...oh wait...no it isn't. The UK is horribly expensive, the taxes are extremely high and even public transport is much higher than comparable nations. A train ride from Farnborough to London costs over 17 pounds! A small flat in Edinburgh can easily cost £350 or more. Scotland has no flat tax and the Scot Adam Smith would be appalled.

[Scoforever]

That wasn't a flat tax you eejit. Flat tax is when it is on all things. The poll tax was for houses only. Anyway she didn't put it on Scotland. She invented the idea and the Scottish secretary decided to try it on Scotland quickly. Scotland's poll tax was not a test by Mrs Thatcher.

[ferrozm]

poor people suffer from progressive income taxes even more through embedded prices.

[BullshipDetector]

Forbes isnt for the flat tax. He wants ZERO taxes on his income, genius. ZERO. NONE. NADA. He calls his plan flat, cause he knows that fools stupid people. Its only flat for OTHER people. For ordinary income. For his income -- he wants ZERO tax.

Thats not flat, thats bullshit.

Forbes would ship a brick if he had to pay taxes like workers have to pay on ordinary income. Forbes has lied about his intention for years.

[NawwLeans]

Flat tax my ass. This is as flat as Dolly Parton. As Flat as Pikes Peak. They call it flat to fool stupid people, but the real deal is -- they want HUGE taxes on ordinary income like work, like small business income, but they want ZERO taxes on things like naked shorts, hedge fund manipulation, leverage buy outs, derivitive manipulation. Don't believe Forbes and others like him. They would HATE a real flat tax, where all income is taxed alike. You gotta pay attention to their lying details

[delta4000]

stop spamming every site starlin

[GFWoodchuck]

A flat tax is a good idea. And it would work. The reason why it has never really been done before is because government are self-help institutions that need more and more and more. They are afraid of losing money for their programs that shouldn't even exist in the first place. There should be a flat tax for many reasons. The first being is why should I, or anyone else for that matter, be paying for another person's write offs.

[GFWoodchuck]

If you want something, pay for it. Don't make it so that my taxes are higher to subsidize it.

[DF1234567]

A flat tax is just plain wrong. The richest 20% of the country already controls 94% of the wealth. All a flat tax would do, is shift the tax burden away from the top 20%, and make that 94% control even bigger. The tax code should be simple, yes, but progressive. Three marginal rates, 10 k to 50 k a year is taxed at 12%, 50 to 150 gets taxed at 25%, 150 or more is 40%.

[Scottnice]

it has to be 9 million words and extremely complex and unreadable because it is completely illegal. If people understood it they would realize that the government doesn't has the athority to tax labor because the states didn't ratify the 16th ammendment.

[allgoo19]

Like George W. Bush, Steve Forbes didn't accomplish anything on his own, his publishing business, his wealth etc. Everything he has now was inherited from his father(founder of the magazine).

How valuable do you think his opinions are?

[allgoo19]

Flat rate tax(everybody pays the same rate toward their earnings) is an ancient form of taxation system just above the flat tax(everybody pays the same amount).

Why you want to try the same thing that didn't work over and over?

[thinkingrationally]

Then why have several countries in Europe instituted the flat tax? From what I have heard, it's working fairly well there. And why shouldn't everyone pay the same percentage? If you are a member of a society, you've got to contribute to the well-being of that society when you partake in the benefits (roads, water, police, fire). Progressive tax rates encourage dependency on the government to provide things to you that you don't pay for.

[allgoo19]

thinkingratonally:

Do you live in one of those countries and know the situation in detail?

Can you name one of those countries which has had the flat tax system for more than 30 yr. and booming in the economy?

I know one country booming in certain industry, Chek Rep. Porn industry and prostitution, which usually means the rest of the economy is a disaster.

[thinkingrationally]

It's "Czech" Republic. And no, I cannot name a country that has had a flat tax for more than 30 years and no, I do not live in a country with a flat tax. What does that say or prove? That we shouldn't have something because it hasn't been around long enough? I will admit that there are mixed results in the flat tax system (depending on the country), but there are so many factors that account for the strength of an economy-not just the tax system a nation uses.

[allgoo19]

to thinkingrationally:

Which one do you think will happen? The rest of the world will follow "Czech" way, which is still experimenting after long period of communism control. Or "Czech" will follow the rest of the world, which had already experimented flat taxing, flat rate taxing in the past then had come to the current progressive taxing system?

[chillinwitjoe]

I know a country that has had a flat income tax since 1947. Hong Kong, the richest, most freest market in the world. Czech Republic moved to the flat tax last year, and I bet ya that the porn industry and prostitution over there will be overshadowed by other industries with the flat tax in place.

[john1234r]

no, 17% flat tax doesnt work. The wealthy need to pay 32% AND they need to start paying social security on ALL their income.

[goingwithzed]

why stop at 32%? Lets go for 80% and call it a day.... level the playing field. If you make a nickel above $50k a year - you give it all away. And if this sounds absurd why is it any less arbitrary than 32% and progressive tax? Check out what 'fixing incomes' has done for Detroit - millions of people living well given their skills only to now wonder if they will have to leave cuz the whole thing is collapsing. Living in an empowering society of freedom to prosper is the answer - not this.

[danster26]

I've been saying the same thing for the past 10 years. A flat tax would be better and simpler. There would be less tax fraud and everybody would pay there fair share. Usually the people that make the most money get around taxes and avoid them and pay virtually nothing and the middle class pays up the wazoo.

[danster26]

You could file your taxes on one sheet and would take you ten minutes to file. Let's say 10% tax and you had a gross income of $40000, you owe $4000. If you made $200000, well you owe $20000. No exceptions and easy. The only person that will cry is the accountant because you don't need him anymore. In my case I would save a few thousand (business) and would be more money in my pockets.

[LostTrack1]

Well, I thought he brought up a good point...

[graaaaaagh]

Fuck this; the only good tax is a progressive tax.

[marneedear]

why? because the most productive people ought to carry the majority of the burden of the government ON TOP of producing the most value?

[graaaaaagh]

The rich are not productive. They are exploitative.

[EvanRSJ]

Not productive? What about the doctors who spend at least a decade of their lives post-high school getting an education in order to save the lives of others? Shouldn't they be allowed to keep most of the money they earn for their sacrifices instead of losing roughly half of it to the progressive tax? The answer is yes. Graaaaaagh, you are nothing more than a common fool for making an ignorant statement like that.

[graaaaaagh]

My suggestion of a progressive tax was only a short-term solution. In principle I advocate participatory economics and anarchism instead of capitalism, communism, or any other system.

[graaaaaagh]

The working class is what holds capitalism up. Without them, it will fall to pieces. They are the most productive members of society.

[antivoterfraud]

Your a dumbass! Move to fucking Cuba!

[graaaaaagh]

You can't spell "you're" and I'M the dumbass? And this love it or leave it attitude I hear from so many Americans is insane. I care about this country; that's why I still live here.

[antivoterfraud]

Didnt reliz thsi waz anglish clas. Thaught thiz waz imferml. Al thes acarchist comunists advicaate fareness yaet thhink iits ok too taax somme peoplee arrbitrarily moor monee thnen otheers!

[antivoterfraud]

Your a dumbass! Move to fucking Cuba!

[jburgesslaw]

cont...

Lastly, I've lived in countries with horrible courts, corrupt police and no fire departments. Do you really want to pay no taxes? My guess is driving without roads and living in cities without building codes wouldn't be as nice as you might think.

No one likes to pay taxes, but you reap the tax benefit every time you don't have to help your neighbor put out a fire, stop him from building a factory next to your house or fight off a group of thieves.

[CognosSquare]

Simpler tax is not the opposite of progressive tax

[jburgesslaw]

Too bad it isn't a question of by how much to multiply your income... it is instead a question of WHAT is your income. That's what the tax code tries to solve. The 1st page is about what % to multiply your income, the rest is about WHAT is income. Ask yourself what is income, and then start to look at reasons why X or Y shouldn't be realized until Z event, then ask yourself what the rule should be.

[dstone2004]

Instead of $46,000, it should be anyone who makes less that $100,000 pays no income tax.

Between $100,000 and $1 million pays 17% tax, above $1 million pays 30% tax.

This way the government would make more money and poorer people wouldn't die from poverty.

[ftggog]

this is the most bullshit economic statement i've heard. ideologues should seriously stop this nonsense and find practical solutions to solve real time problems. a flat tax rate? it would drive both keynes and friedman to their graves!!

[swixican]

someone studied poli-sci in their undergrad

[ubuibiok]

***** and I agree

[baseballnolie34]

1) The government does not collect more money from a flat tax. Even my right-wing professors acknowledge this without debate.

2) This is a voucher to the rich, who already have the money they need to send their kids to the best schools around. The rest of us are stuck in under-funded schools.

3) This rewards the idle rich, as he seeks to eliminate inheritance tax. So, my dad works hard and makes a bunch of money, and now I'm a born aristocrat. This is better?

Make more = owe more.

[Chrisnoscrub047]

The product of your labor is yours. You don't owe it to anyone.

[baseballnolie34]

Since this is basically a moral argument, you're entitled to your opinion, but the fact remains that your ability to work and be rewarded is a product of society's stability. This is not some Marxian idea, either; I believe Adam Smith believed in the idea of progressive taxation.

There are also numerous practical reasons to want to avoid excessive inequality and wealth concentration, which should be obvious. Not the least is the threat that wealth poses to democracy (makes their voice louder).

[Chrisnoscrub047]

How stable can a society be if the product of your labor is not yours by right but by the favor of the majority, or a representative of the majority?

[baseballnolie34]

In practice it has been very, very stable.

How stable can a society be when some people are able to amass wealth through luck and skill and then pass on ALL of it to their children, who have earned none of it except by birth? That's simply a new aristocracy, one that creates a society that rewards wealth and not skill or anything with societal balance.

A good compromise is a progressive tax code, which lets you keep most of your money but returns a portion to the society that helped it happen.

[Chrisnoscrub047]

Because those children will need *luck* and skill to make the right decisions with it -- without those factors it will eventually be squandered. Tell me nolie, why should I trade one heir who wants a grand estate without deserving it for 300 million of my neighbors who unjustly demand it? The latter will turn my neighbors into parasites with the hope that productive men die so they can get paid. The man who has earned it has the right to decide how it will be distributed, no one else.

[baseballnolie34]

The government obviously shouldn't just write a check to people, as you seem to think happens with taxation. Instead, that money gets invested in things the free market wouldn't handle properly or at all, at least within time frames necessary for the proper functioning of society. Having someone who makes much more than me get taxed at a higher rate is simply an acknowledgment that he didn't "earn" that extra money alone. It's hardly parasitic, either, since everyone benefits from it over time.

[ftggog]

well said.I think sometimes we've forgotten the dogma - "prosper thy neighbour". It is certainly important to foster competition and provide the right incentives, so that people can have the motivation to pursue their goals, yet individual gain should not come at the expense of societal sacrifice. This is something Americans should think hard about. Stop all the ideological bickering and use your common sense for once. Republican or Democrats, Neo-Keynesian or Monetarist, practical solutions pls

[DBZO12]

Exactly!! I can't stand all this robin hood theory bull. It's no different than theft

[baseballnolie34]

Lowering the tax still wouldn't stop people from trying to circumvent it, as that hasn't happened since the Reagan years, when this doctrine began implementation.

What would happen is you adopt the flat tax and parts of the economy would be immediately boosted, but soon afterwards things would come back to earth, with less money around for investments in the future (like education). Then guys like Forbes would be screaming about how high the 17% rate was, and that 5% was best, etc.

[ferrozm]

he just mentioned that they collect more revenues with a flat tax anyway, so there would be money for future investments. And whose to say that you need the govt. to make those kind of investments? if people had their own money they could use to go towards any school they wanted, much like a universal, all-encompassing voucher.

[stephenetienne]

" . . . not a laboratory thing, not an academic thing. It's working in the real world."  Then let's do it!!!

[CognosSquare]

lol

[toolshed333]

amen.

[Cubicleboy04]

Amen.

[neotoy]

amen.