James Robison: A Blast from Huckabee's Past

[dallaskenn]

What a jerk, he sort of reminds you of David Terrell with a G.E.D.

[tylersjic]

What he's saying is the truth.

[RadarKat73080]

The majority of Americans are religious, of those, the majority are Christian. If Rev Robison is correct, then the Christian right has no one to blame but themselves.

[microhi]

this is a VERY OLD vidoe...this man is not this way anymore, he has been humble and softspoken since at least 2003 when I started watching him. He has admitted several times on his show about how his ways in the past were wrong. This video doesn't portray James Robison as he is today and it shouldn't be used to make it look as if he is this way today.

[godanselmo]

crooks

[APARTHIANSHOT]

I urge you to fuck off and get a life :)

PS. Johannes Kepler says you are "a douchebag."

[gumpydoood]

I urge everyone to read Madisons great letter to Edward Livingston to see what the foundedrs (he wrote the Constitution & was the greatest legal mind of his day!) thought about seperation of church & state. I also recommend Galileo's letter to the Dutchess of Tuscany (also free online!), a brilliant description about freedom of conscience & the difference between science & theology. Anyone interested in the TRUTH should read both great letters. In fact, they should be required reading in schools

[gumpydoood]

The point is, the seperation of church and state was vital to the founders as it should be to everyone and especially Christians. both government & churches are stronger with a robust seperation. It should be churches fighting for respect of this principle & yet many today (including Sarah Palins church!( wish to crumble this wall & replace it instead with a Christian theocracy. James Robison as well as James Dobson & many other "evangelists" work to do exactly that!

[gumpydoood]

I have furnished a host of examples of the importance to the founders of the speration of church & state & of their contemt for organized religion. And yet, I know I will not convince the zealots for people believe what they wish to believe, quite apart from the TRUTH, which is absolute.

[gumpydoood]

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects." [James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr., Jauary 1774]

[gumpydoood]

"And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together;". . .James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

[Califacience]

Gumpydoood I myself believe in those quotes, and in the Separation of Church and State as the founders understood the term, but you will have to go learn something about European history to discover that understanding.

oh and don't correct simple grammatical errors in these kinds of inpromptu online conversations, it makes you appear rather silly.

[gumpydoood]

When you speak of European history, are you referring to the execution of Giovanni Bruno (anniversary today!), which lead directly to our religious freedom as well as freedom of speech? Or perhaps the execution of the Cathars? Or St. Bartholamuews massacre? Or perhaps the torture & death of the Knights Templars? Or maybe the countless "witches" burned at the stake, most of whom were simply practicing age old herbal medicine? Or the numerous scientists who were killed for advancing knowledge?

[gumpydoood]

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

[gumpydoood]

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

[gumpydoood]

Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820

[gumpydoood]

Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

[IcyScythe]

what a lunatic

[whoo689]

eternal values of bigotry, closedmindedness, hatred and intolerance. Nope. Not doing that shit. Fuck the religious right.

[gumpydoood]

Google the JEFFERSON BIBLE. Don't stay ignorant!

[ceaserdressing]

can we see the entire speech from the phoenix crusade 1979 ?

[blackbeltpatriotism]

If you've read Jame's books, you know he had a real problem with lust during this time and was contemplating suicide. A carpet cleaner had to deliver him from evil spirit (s). He will tell you himself he was just being religious during this time, no real life in the Lord.

[lonestar225]

fuck god if there is one...

[blackbeltpatriotism]

this is before God smashed him and humbled him, he's gentle James now

[bella50008]

God did not smash and humble him to become "gentle James". NO!! God surely wanted him to improve his character and lovewalk - just like all of us, BUT God would never spiritually neuter him and render him a whimp going along with any teaching or book that comes thru the studio door as long as it profits his ministry.The Body of Christ needs the David in this vid WITH the humility, love, and with the fire and the Word. He's only a talk show host now - what a loss at this crucial hour in history.

[AfroImpi]

Religious leaders have failed miserably. They are corrupt and conceipted. They have milked every systemand very attendee of their irrational meetings. Time to pt thes rascals where they belong is now.

[barbourjohn]

This is great! I just found it and am greatly encouraged to know another great man of God that has not bowed the knee to Baal and Molech ( the god of the state- the one the leftest genuflect to).

[gumpydoood]

Go eat Rush Dimbulbs assturds, conservanerd.

[shepherd1957]

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.

"From the day of the Declaration...they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct." --John Quincy Adams

[gumpydoood]

So you select one single founding father, John Quincy Adams, as representative of the group. He is not. You can pick and choose your quotes but the simple fact is, the bulk of the founders were DEISTS. Many were deeply contemtuous of the Christian bible though grudgingly accorded religions their due as moral compasses. This is the reason we have freedom of religion and not some theocracy based upon Christianity. Please. . .I URGE you to do your homework on this matter.

[Califacience]

How about reading the ACTUAL writings of the founding fathers instead of leftwing revisionist writing about them?

The truth is the majority were Christian, a few were closet Deists who wanted to be thought of as Christian among the general public and ONLY ONE (Paine) was an unabashed Deist. We DO have a Theocracy, but Theocracy is not some sort of Oligarchy, IT IS Democracy as Locke explains in the Two treatises and as Jefferson explains in the Declaration

Your giving someone else homework?

[gumpydoood]

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian & Mohammedan, the Hindoo & Infidel of every denomination."

Jefferson

[gumpydoood]

Do you want another lesson Califascience? (You're probably a "creationist"!)

"Your" should be "you're", a contraction of "you" & "are", as in "You're giving someone elds homework?" !

[nrobyar]

This man has lived a good life setting a great example of a Christial. Don't know if you think this speaks ill of Governor Huckabe but it is a tribute to him, in my opinion.

[gumpydoood]

You're sick. America had it's founding in the principles of the enlightenment, including the freedom of religion. I am afraid you and this wackjob preacherman know nothing about the true history of our nation. Google Madisons letter to Edward Livingston, just for starters. Pull your nose out of that bible, turn off the nutcase evangelicals on that radio of yours and educate yourself.

[shepherd1957]

gumpydoood, YOU're sick. perhaps YOU need to educate yourself. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Hamilton, and the others all valued the Bible above any other book. They ALL agreed that this nation was established, not by "religionists but by Christians." They agreed that our republic would only work for a god-honoring and moral, virtuous people.

Thomas Jefferson said that if we ever forgot that our rights are granted to us by God, we are in danger of losing them.

[gumpydoood]

Thomas Jefferson said "God", not Jesus. During his first term as president, he cut & pasted the bible, eliminating all the ridiculous "miracles" and leaving just the words of Jesus whom he thought a great philosopher but not God. Most of the other founders were deists. Back to school for you.

Jefferson said, "question even the existance of God".

[gumpydoood]

Google "Jefferson Bible", bub. They don't teach it in your homeschool lessons. But then, what do they teach in those "lessons"?

[flyingsofa]

i wish to marry him

[irreverentjim]

I am watching his TRIVITA add on late night. Easy to see he is an old evangelican along with his wife. Trivita is just another packaging of B vitamens. They claim science, yet we know the south never participates in discovery by that method. He is a bible pitchman that the north took on to bambozle the southern idoits because of the bible phenomenon. You rarely see a southern man selling science. They are better apt at selling chicken and ribs. buyer beware. get the same at your grocery.

[ThomasJeromeNewton]

mother teresa he ain't

[fckdsht]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

[gstan2912]

This is the old James Robison. Today he is completely opposite. He is what every christian should strive to be like. Feeding the poor and lending a hand to the weak.

[b0b0maj0]

If you want to help the poor, donate to the salvation army or oxfarm. Don't trust private enterprise religious ministries with your money especially when James Robison ministries don't disclose what they spend their funds on.

Why do they need to offer you a bunch of "gifts" for your donation money?

[dallaskenn]

@b0b0maj0 Because they're right-wing scam artists, that's why.

[freakazoidodo]

Probably because he knew he'd have a tough time keeping his show on TBN if he continued his tirades.

[Emeraldjazzlady]

Yes. That is the truth. IF you watch his show, you can see that he is an intelligent, God loving, gentle, kind man who adores his wife!! What is wrong with people? People change and become better.

[realityradio]

Good stuff...need more... to bad he quit preaching and hooked up with T B N

[LifeTodayDotOrg]

Wow. Somebody dug deep to find these clips for one minute of fury. Still, it pales compared to the liberals of today -- "Reverend" Wright, Randi Rhodes, Bill Maher and on and on. Quit living in the past and find out what Robison is really about by tuning into his TV program or visiting his website.

[LoraSinger]

newreformation(dot)org/fundame­ntalism(dot)htm

[dallaskenn]

@LifeTodayDotOrg Robison is still an evangelical fundamentalist jerk after all these years. He's David Terrell with a high school diploma.

[annabellwells]

One of the few Christians that seems so full of love. We should listen with respect to this man of God.

[Emeraldjazzlady]

Amen, honey!!

[williamhudson1]

What is your point. I like this guy.

[Emeraldjazzlady]

Me too. I watch his programs. He does a lot of reading, cares about how his wife feels, cares about people and has been absolutely transparent about his life and his past. THAT is honorable.

[guitarsrule1]

James Robison is no longer a hypocritcal maniac. He's ok.

[LordMalice6d9]

America will destroy itself!

[dgj3925]

Huckabee was a student of this guy...that's scary!

[L4k3rF4N]

Christianity does not include picking on a certain class of people. God does not allow christians to have a better than thou attitude. Live your life for God by living your own life as the good book says. When people see your happiness they will embrace what you have. You cannot impose religion on people. It's that simple. God wanted no part in worldly government. Power corrupts. Pray in secret, and your goodness will shine through!

[cdwitmer]

L4k3rF4N Jesus taught us to pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven," and he said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Psalm 2 says kings should kiss the Son lest his anger be kindled and he smite them, and Revelation describes kings bringing their glory into the New Jerusalem. Power does not corrupt God. Until Jesus returns he has delegated power to men, and I'd rather have men who fear God in positions of power than men who worship only themselves.

[LoraSinger]

cd -Psalm 2 says kings should kiss the Son lest his anger be kindled and he smite them,

Funny, cd, that's not what it says in the original unedited version. No kissing there. In plain words, it relates a story of kings rising against god and rabbi's and god admonishes them with "Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling."

[LoraSinger]

cd - "I'd rather have men who fear God in positions of power than men who worship only themselves."

Men like Falwell: "

[LoraSinger]

Falwell : "The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc."

Helms: "Your tax dollars are being used to pay for grade-school classes that teach our children that cannibalism, wife-swapping and murder of infants and the elderly are acceptable behavior."

[LoraSinger]

Swaggert: "Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest."

Scheidler: "I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting -- people using each other for pleasure."*

[LoraSinger]

Buchanan - "Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."

Robertson: "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense, I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist."

[LoraSinger]

Coulter: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

Now do you really want these people running the country?

[cdwitmer]

Lora, your choice of people to quote, and your choice of quotes, is just that -- YOUR choice. Among the people you quoted, I think Pat Buchanan might have been much better as a political leader than nine out of ten people currently in office. He wouldn't have gotten us in all these crazy wars, that's for sure. The others are not my cup of tea, thank you, for political office. But as far as I know, none of the others ever sought political office anyway. So they are pretty stupid examples.

[LoraSinger]

cd -"Lora, your choice of people to quote, and your choice of quotes, is just that -- YOUR choice."

Exactly right. I chose those people because they are some of the leading figures in the Dominionist movement.

[LoraSinger]

and as far as Pat Buchanan goes:

Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."

--Pat Buchanan (11/22/83)

That's a stupid thing to say too.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, congrats, you have found a Buchanan quote that sounds stupid. Your next assignment is to find a public person who has NOT said something stupid at some point. "Rotsa Ruck." The fact remains that Buchanan has been vehemently opposed to all of Bush's and Clinton's wars, and it is these wars being promoted by the leadership of both parties that are the greatest threat to the world today. Buchanan deserves credit for opposing them. He's no "Dominionist," except perhaps in your imagination.

[LoraSinger]

CD - First of all, I don't recall a war under Clinton - which one was that?

Always my imagination - personal attacks mean you're running out of ammunition, cd. I still have lots!

en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/­Constitution_Party_(United_Sta­tes)

[LoraSinger]

Try this one cd - publiceye(dot)org/magazine/v06­n1/culwar(dot)html

"Finally, there is the militant, overtly racist far right that includes the open White supremacists, Ku Klux Klan members, Christian Patriots, racist skinheads, neonazis, and right-wing revolutionaries. Although numerically smaller, the far right is a serious political factor in some rural areas,

[LoraSinger]

and its propaganda promoting violence reaches into major metropolitan centers where it encourages alienated young people to commit hate crimes against people of color, Jews, and gays and lesbians, among other targets. The electoral efforts of Buchanan and Duke serve as a bridge between the ultraconservative hard right and these far right movements. The armed milita movement is a confluence of regressive populism, White racial nationalism, and the racist and antisemitic far right.

[LoraSinger]

Along with the theocratic right, two other hard right political movements pose a grave threat to democracy: regressive populism, typified by diverse groups ranging from members of the John Birch Society out to members of the patriot and armed militia movements; and White racial nationalism, promoted by Pat Buchanan and his shadow, David Duke of Louisiana.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, David Duke is Pat Buchanan's shadow? I thought David Duke was the shadow of Harvard Dean Stephen Walt: nysun(dot)com/article/29380

[LoraSinger]

Dunno about David Duke other than his being named in the article. Don't know much about him.

[LoraSinger]

cd - I just found this site. Is this the same David Duke you're talking about?

planetarymovement(dot)org/2005­/12/01/david-duke-us-racist-wa­rmly-welcomed-in-syria/

[LoraSinger]

cd - This article discusses the basis of Dominionism/Theocratic rule and is quite interesting.

[LoraSinger]

mainstreambaptists(dot)org/mob­4/dominionism(dot)htm

[cdwitmer]

Lora, if you're posting about David Duke as "evidence" and then it turns out you don't know much about him after all, you're just wasting your time and mine with your posts. Your posts have been predominantly regurgitations of half-baked half-truths that reinforce your own prejudices. There is no point in continuing this exchange so this will be my last comment.

[LoraSinger]

Take a look at the Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists site and see for yourself.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, the "militant, overtly racist far right" has absolutely nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ. See "Misconception 8": chalcedon(dot)edu/credo.php

[LoraSinger]

cd "militant, overtly racist far right" has absolutely nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ"

Exactly right. The Dominionists/neocons or whatever else they have been called have very little in common with the teachings of Jesus as well. Their aim is to return to the rigid laws of the old testament.

[LoraSinger]

In an article I have just received these are some of the capital crimes which will deserve the death penalty: abandonment of faith, heresy, blasphemy, astrology, adultry, idol worship (other religions), violating the sabbath, enticing to idolatry (other religions preaching, I guess), juvenile delinquency and unchastity before marriage.

I don't know about you but I doubt very much that I'd like to see that enforced.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, re: death penalty for "abandonment of faith, heresy, blasphemy, astrology, adultery, idol worship (other religions), violating the sabbath, enticing to idolatry (other religions preaching, I guess), juvenile delinquency and unchastity before marriage," that is PURE FANTASY. Tell me who is calling for such a thing -- nobody that anyone has ever heard of. I have hundreds of books by these "extremists" and it simply is not true.

[LoraSinger]

cd - read the site I just gave you. It comes from a site called Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists and at the bottom of the page is a link where you can email them with questions. There are also a couple of videos you can watch.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, NOBODY wants to return to the rigid laws of the Old Testament. Some people have tried to distinguish among moral, civil, and ceremonial law, but that quickly proves to be impossible. Without Levites and a temple, there's no ceremonial law; hence, OT law CANNOT be rigidly obeyed by anyone.

[LoraSinger]

Well, cd - I see you've given me a thumbs down in just about everything I've said. It appears that you prefer to discredit any evidence I've given you by not looking at it and then calling it nonsense, in order to maintain your dellusions and remain ignorant.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, Clinton used the American military unconstitutionally in Afghanistan, Sudan, Kosovo, Iraq, and Somalia. He also approved the illegal transfer of U.S. nuclear secrets crucial to nuclear weapons development to Turkish spies: tinyurl(dot)com/2uahqu . . . basically Bush and Clinton are cut from the same cloth.

[LoraSinger]

You could be right.

[LifeTodayDotOrg]

Bosnia and Mogadishu (of Black Hawk Down fame)

[cdwitmer]

Lora, you display your ignorance when you talk of the "Dominionist movement," for their is no such thing. In your vapid "understanding" of Christianity you throw together irreconcilable theological and political positions and label that as a "Dominionist movement." You're painting with a a mile-wide brush and obscuring the truth in the process.

[LoraSinger]

cd - you display your ignorance when you talk of the "Dominionist movement," for their is no such thing"

If that is what you believe, then you are the ignorant one. If there was no such thing, then I would think no one would write about it, would they?

en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Domi­nion_Theology

religioustolerance(dot)org/rec­onstr(dot)htm

crossroad(dot)to/articles2/05/­sarah-leslie/dominionism.htm

[LoraSinger]

I can only think that with your vehement defence that you are most likely part of it yourself.

[LoraSinger]

We differ, cd, in that I understand Christianity very well, having looked at it from the inside and studied it for some 60 years. I also know the difference between a moderate christian and an extremist and am pretty realistic about christianity is and isn't. You appear to be fully indoctrinated in something beyond the mainstream.

[LoraSinger]

cd "In your vapid "understanding" of Christianity you throw together irreconcilable theological and political positions"

Religion itself has no place in politics any more than politics has a place in church. A political leader should reflect his religious beliefs by his just actions, but he should not sermonize in the political arena.

[LoraSinger]

The irreconcilable theological position in this case is a lunatic fringe minority that wants to impose 2000 year old, old testament rules via legislation, on a moderate to secular majority.

[LoraSinger]

cd - But as far as I know, none of the others ever sought political office anyway."

True, they themselves have not but who do you think is behind Bush and Huckabee?

[cdwitmer]

Lora, the Neocons behind Bush are not are primarily (though not exclusively) Jewish. Their sympathizers and dupes among Christians are primarily Dispensationalists. Buchanan, no Dispensationalist, is for Ron Paul; Robertson supports Giuliani and Coulter Romney. See tinyurl(dot)com/36vqj & tinyurl(dot)com/z2eg9

[LoraSinger]

cd - Yes, I am aware that Robertson has backed off his support of the Dominionists somewhat. The Neocons support Israel because of "end times" prophecy in Revelation, with Pastor Hagee advocating war with Iran which will thus bring it about. The idea is to protect Israel and there is a very real push to convert Jews to Christianity to "save" them. This thrust is being fended off by such Jewish projects as Outreach Judaism.

[LoraSinger]

cd - Don't get me wrong. I'm not against mainstream christianity but I am against extremists within its ranks. I truly believe in freedom of religion for all people, christian or not. The Dominionists do not support that freedom. This push is to inflict their particular version of christianity on everyone, including mainstream christians. Their version of christianity will take us right back to the dark ages.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, don't put words in my mouth. I favor Ron Paul for president. Ron Paul is a god-fearing man who is also far more tolerant than you are.

[LoraSinger]

cd "Lora, don't put words in my mouth. I favor Ron Paul for president. Ron Paul is a god-fearing man who is also far more tolerant than you are."

What has Ron Paul to do with this?

[cdwitmer]

Lora, Ron Paul has everything to do with this. See tinyurl(dot)com/2k6d8s

[LoraSinger]

cd - I've check out Ron Paul's platform and he seems to be a fair man. Again, you seem to have the impression that I am lumping mainstream christians all into one bucket. I think I've told you a number of times, extremists are the problem, and I don't see where Ron Paul would fit into that picture. I would classify him as mainstream.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, great if you think Ron Paul is mainstream -- he certainly is since all the other candidates of both parties are headed for a dead end. But you'd be surprised to see the kinds of people that Ron Paul has had on his staff over the years: people you like to hate. But Ron Paul understands what you don't -- that if you love the Constitution, those are the sort of people you end up rubbing shoulders with.

[LoraSinger]

"great if you think Ron Paul is mainstream"

It's really too bad that he's not given the same spotlight as McCain and the others. It sounds like he, like Mike Gravel have been left out of debates and deliberately shunned by the media. My question is how does one control the "ones you love to hate". He seems to be mild.

[LoraSinger]

L4 - "Christianity does not include picking on a certain class of people. God does not allow christians to have a better than thou attitude"

Christianity does not work as advertised!

[cdwitmer]

Lora, "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried." -- G. K. Chesterton

[LoraSinger]

cd - "Lora, "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried." -- G. K. Chesterton

Christianity does not work as advertised.

[cdwitmer]

I might add to my last post that most people are exceedingly ignorant of just how much the Christian faith contributed to the founding of this nation. The very system of government that the founders instituted would not have been possible if not for the Protestant Reformation, which went back to the Bible to find the authorization for maximizing personal liberty and establishing a representative government through the consent of the governed.

[LoraSinger]

cd - "most people are exceedingly ignorant of just how much the Christian faith contributed to the founding of this nation."

On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War." The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.

[LoraSinger]

So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance".

[LoraSinger]

Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"

"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!"

[LoraSinger]

I have a few dozen pages more but this should give you the rest of the story.

Yes, they certainly helped - by clearing the land, so to speak, with the help of god all the way.

[cdwitmer]

So, Lora, what's your point? In the Bible, Jacob's proud, violent sons Simeon and Levi offered the Canaanite city of Shechem admission into God's covenant by having all the males of the city agree to be circumcised, and then, while they were still incapacitated, they slaughtered them all. God's people have occasionally done outrageous things to other people ever since Cain killed Abel. But the record of people who don't believe in God is even worse. So what's your point?

[LoraSinger]

cd - "So what's your point?".

First of all, Jacob's proud violent sons were Jews and have nothing to do with with Christians.

My point is simply that for the last 2000 years, the butchery that has taken place in the name of Christianity far outweighs any good that it has done.

[cdwitmer]

Lora: Were the knaves who invoked Christ's name actually obeying his commandments? Were they actually imitating him? The butchery that has taken place in the last 100 years, during which Christ has been BANNED from the public square, far outweighs the butchery of ALL previous centuries combined, and the butchery of Christians is a drop in the bucket by comparison. That doesn't justify any of it, but puts it in proper perspective. All the butchery has been IN VIOLATION OF Christ's commandments.

[LoraSinger]

cd - "The butchery that has taken place in the last 100 years, during which Christ has been BANNED from the public square, far outweighs the butchery of ALL previous centuries combined"

Not a single chance, cd.

truthbeknown(dot)com/victims.h­tm

Actually, I doubt that you'll even look at that site because it's a lot easier to keep your head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen.

[LoraSinger]

cd - The one thing I must add is "yes", I have met some very good christian people and fortunately, they are the majority: however, as in any element of society, there are the very fervent extremists and these comprise about 15% of christians in the US. This extreme religious right called Dominionists are a danger even to you as a mainstream christian unless you share their fanatic views.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, now it's the "Dominionist" boogeyman. What you're saying boils down to "Any king but Jesus!" Everyone is to be tolerated EXCEPT the Christians. Hmm, *that's* real "tolerant" of you now isn't it?

[LoraSinger]

cd - google "Domionism" - it's far from being a "boogeyman". And it's people like you that it hides behind. You defend it on the basis of "fellow christian" and you could not be more wrong. It's a very real threat to everyone but the extremists in it, including mainstream christians and all other religions. As far as tolerance goes, you are right, I will never tolerate extremists.

[LoraSinger]

cd - "What you're saying boils down to "Any king but Jesus"

No cd, don't you read well? What it boils down to is lunatics under the guise of "christians" that want to impose 2000biblical law, some like gary north with stoning, on the rest of the population of a country.

[cdwitmer]

Lora, that website is stupid. See scaruffi(dot)com/politics/dict­at.html -- the top 20 genocides were all perpetrated by enemies of Christ. Even if everything at that website was correct, it pales compared with what Christ-haters have done. Also, doing a thing in Christ's name & doing it in obedience to Christ are very different things. Which "Christian atrocity" would have occurred if the perps were obeying the teachings of Christ? Yours is an argument for OBEYING Christ, not for rejecting him.

[LoraSinger]

cd - "Lora, that website is stupid."

Of course you would see the web site as stupid and the 2000 years of butchery done in the name of god as being perpetrated by god-haters.

However, they considered themselves to be christians and who are you to say they are not. Is a black swan not still a swan?

[cdwitmer]

Lora, see Gil Eliot's "Twentieth Century Book of the Dead"; it proves the 20th century -- during which Christ was banned from the public square and "secular" governments reigned -- saw more bloodshed than all previous centuries combined, and also a higher percentage of people killed by governments hostile to Christ than were killed in any previous century. Eliot is not making a specifically "Christian" argument, but what I'm saying here follows inexorably from his book, which is irrefutable.

[LoraSinger]

cd - "a higher percentage of people killed by governments hostile to Christ"

Statistics don't lie, cd - no matter what the book says:

(Barna) Based on a careful assessment of the most recent survey data available, we find "High levels of organic atheism are strongly correlated with high levels of societal health, such as low homicide rates, low incarceration rate, low poverty rates, low infant mortality rates,

[LoraSinger]

Cont'd: and low illiteracy rates, as well as high levels of educational attainment, per capita."

The proof is in the pudding cd.  Now, a peaceful co-existance would be nice but an extremist takeover is definitely not what I would want to see.

[cdwitmer]

Well, I'm a big supporter of Ron Paul, Huck makes me sick, and I can't say I care for Robison's style. But his core message in this video clip is correct: any nation that persistently rejects God -- the very source of life -- is indeed doomed. How many nations in history have lasted for millennia? The church is everywhere defeated and derided -- but the church outlasted its enemies. And it will still be here after America has become just another footnote in the history books.

[darsal123]

Huckabee is the best the heck with the rest!!

[bradstar2005]

Huckabee, as governor, denied DuMond's release without parole- 3 times!- the only thing he could have done to stop DuMond as he could not stop or start parole. The commutation was initiated when Clinton was governor- Clinton was the only governor who truly could have started this. Blaming Huckabee is entirely misbased and ignorant.

[lvrplfc4l]

BS, Jim Guy Tucker reviewed the life +20 sentence and commuted it to 39 years, this allowed the parole review. Clinton had recused himself from the case as the victim was a cousin. Mike Huckabee's blame in this is not misplaced or ignorant, Dumond's jail house conversion made him a cause among Arkansas evangelical Christians who used him as a way to hit at Clinton and support Huckabee at the same time.

[pathx21x]

In a piece for the Huffington Post, journalist Murray Waas says that Huckabee was "provided letters from several women who had been sexually assaulted by DuMond and who indeed predicted that he would rape again -- and perhaps murder -- if released."

Despite those letters, Huckabee, as governor, pressed for DuMond's release.

[Kailoa36]

"America is doomed as surely as God!" Well, we have nothing to worry about then. Thanks.