The greatest supernatual miracle on Earth...was this horse. Secretariat was the embodiment of perfection. Something us humans will never see in each other. A horse that was capable of the unimaginable. His performances in the highest level of competition has never been equaled...The Triple Crown. He was retired when he had not even reached his peak! And he was physically the most gorgeous horse that ever raced. This will never happen again. Thank God it happened at a time it could be recorded.
@cmf4321 - I am so fed up with pathetic so-called "know-it-alls" stating SEC used performance enhancing drugs. I guess Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth used them also because they hit a baseball further than the standard limits set by most baseball players??? If an individual cannot simply recognize supernatural ability and a "once in a lifetime" miracle such as Secretariat, they should try an button their tongues rather than ramble on with outlandish, undocumented accusations!!!!!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 I completely agree! Something about Secretariat brings out some of these people's worse fears...their own mediocrity. What I find interesting is that it seems to be mostly the male gender that makes the accusations. Maybe some of these "boys" (smile) should be taking steroids to feel better about themselves. Secretariat was "pure" confidence! I'm just glad that a woman owned him. His greatness didn't need a man. He was the MAN! lol Glad you're a fan too:-)
Horse racing's greatest decade, the finest horse we will likely ever see running its last race, and what do we get at 2:52? "Coming Up - Olga Korbut & Evel Knievel." AAAHAHAHA! How 70's can you get!
Lasix is used to thin the blood and therefore increase the oxygen levels supplied to the muscles this is why Euro horses running at the Breeders Cup are described as running 'clean'. This is why it is banned in Europe/Aus/Far East
@gweightman Not all US horses use Lasix - Graham Motion stated that he never administers it to his horses, and Animal Kingdom won the Kentucky Derby without it, and will be running in the Dubai World Cup next month. Again, seven great US horses won the DWC without Lasix or other meds. SYT was "running clean at the Breeders Cup"?! Really? He was given Lasix and still finished 5th. A monster horse like Cigar was equally good with and without Lasix. Watch him in the Dubai World Cup.
Lets be honest, American horses take as much 'medication' as their baseball and gridiron compatriots which is why they hardly run overseas because they would be stripped of any prizemoney.
@gweightman SEVEN US horses have won the Dubai World Cup drug free, including Cigar, Curlin, Well Armed and Captain Steve. In 1966, a decent but not great US horse, called Hill Rise, won the QE II Stakes and was named Champion UK Miler for that year. In the US, Lasix doesn't help in performance, otherwise old records like Dr. Fager's Mile and Secretariat's Derby would have been broken long ago. And SYT, who was given Lasix before the Classic, would have done better than 5th.
@gweightman I'm sure if you got straight A's in school, u probably cheated. If u do well at work, u probably took credit for someone else's work. Ur logic. If u can't recognize the supernatural..the ONE miracle creature on Earth...ur blind to greatness & u will never achieve what u can't recognize. Secretariat WAS the miracle on Earth. The perfect "10" didn't need drugs. He had it ALL..physically &mentally. NO HUMAN ever has. We'll never see anything like this again. And we haven't.
Even the great jock Eddie Arcaro said every person he talked to that seen both said Secretariat the best. Arcaro has seen some greats as well. Rode Whirlaway, Citation, Nashua Assualt, Kelso, Native Dancer. Seen the rest in Dr. Fager, Buckpasser, Damascus, Seattle Slew, Nothern Dancer, Affirmed, Phar Lap and yes Spectacular Bid yet he ranked Secretariat the best he ever seen. He said he seen nothing like him. Pincay ranks him the best. What else can anyone say?
@rscarbro100 - the BEST way of measuring great athletes ovre generations of time is comparing their peak value. With that said, NO HORSE and I mean NO HORSE could have EVER beat Secretariat in many of his great races including his 3 TC races. Man o' War, Citation, Dr. Fager, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Sea Bird II, Shegar, Najiinski, Ribot....NONE of THEM PERIOD could have bested Secretariat at his best...GAME...SET...MATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 I couldn't agree with you more my friend. How in the hell can anyone compare SeaBird with him? Its just unreal to think them Europeans think he was better. Its just jealously and bias period. He beat SeaBird time in the Epsom Derby from his Belmont race by 14.4 seconds or 70 2/5 lengths. He ran 2.40 seconds each quarter faster than SeaBird. Notice how SeaBird was whipped silly in that race & them Brits say he was coasting. I wonder what his last quarter time is..
@rscarbro100 - Maybe...just maybe...Euoprean enthusaists should start focusing on time. I am so fed up with hearing "time doesn't matter"??? It is a %$%$#@$ race where the fastest time wins...PERIOD. If their horses want to "crawl" to the tune of 13/14 second 1/8 mile fractions over the first 1/2 mile, that is NOT our problem/issue. At peak value, SEC would have easily ruled over most, if not all, of Europe's/Australia's top horses!
@Dannykeith46 Times don't mean anything for anyones horse that never did a fast time. This is their defense 'That Times Don't Matter. Daily Racing Forum said the fastest horse will usually get to the finish line first. Makes sense to me. And maybe they just do not know that 'Times' ran tells a pretty good story of how fast a horse is. But I forgot, their horses were 'always eased' or just ran as fast as they needed too. Haha Know you heard all of these & others my good man.
@rscarbro100 - Oh you will "love" this one! I am debating with someone on another forum who is now using Phar Lap's then record time in his sole U.S. as support for Phar lap being as good if not better than SEC. In every previous post, he denounced times as a basis for judging horses??? Now he shifts to Phar Lap's time in that U.S. race! Needless to say I called him out on it, IMMEDIATELY stating you can't have it both ways! I am patiently waiting for his pathetic response.
@Dannykeith46 They can't have it both ways my good man But they want too anyway don't they? Phar Lap time in the Agua was a very good time in 1932. Big Red Derby 1 1/4 mile time still stands to this day while Phar Lap record was broken the following yr. How many high class of horses have ran the Derby in all these yrs. He beat all of them. The track at Agua was only 2 yrs. old when Phar Lap broke the track record. Phar Lap competition were not of high class horses.
@Dannykeith46 The running of the K.Y. Derby is 137 yrs. old heading for 138 yrs, this May. From such great horses as Old Rosebud to Barbaro who has blazed the Derby never approach his record. I can't find nothing of substance of the horses that ran with Phar Lap at Agua. Nor any horse of substance that ever ran at Agua. Now how is that record at Agua compared to Secretariat Derby? Whoever this guy is your talking about is not very knowledgeable about the history of horse racing.
The facts remain that the Bloodhorse panelist in which none of them worked for Bloodhorse never seen Man 0' War run. How can they make a honest opinion who was best. Lets take a panel of horseman that did see both and we see who wins. I can rack off at least 7 that seen both said Secretariat was the better. Thats the same number of panelist that voted for Bloodhorse. Can't find one old time track horseman that had seen both that said Man 0' War was best. Go figure.
I love this clip-- and the reminder that coming up is Olga Korbut and Evil Knevil. What an era. Best time ever in sports, when the whole world did NOT participate, when ESPN didn't make a dime off of every step.
@petermacket You didn't bring any evidence to the table that Secretariat took steriods but you sure in the hell did bring plenty of evidence to the table that your a complete bonafide filty mouth asshole that I rank #1 best of all time. Congratulations
@petermacket You just another one of those jealous Secretariat haters. Your the steriod user trying to make that 1 inch cock of yours a little bigger so you can suck it. Hope you succeed. You already have with that wrapped mind of yours. Hehehe
@petermacket - With EVERY 2 year old post you make, you simply further prove you are "over the top" jealous of Secretariat's pinnacle status...keep it coming jerkoff so you can continue proving your ignorance like your alleged bullshit Harvard friend!
When workout scores were greater than 100, the horse was a perfect eight for eight on any surface, whether on slop or on dry top, whether on firm ground or in deep turf in the midst of the cold, sleeting weather of Canada. End of quote. 3 days piror to the race he ran a 5/8 mile workout which by the was was his first full workout in 58 3/5 time breaking the track record by one full second. What a 'Hoss'.
@rscarbro100 - We have another dipshit on the "Secretariat Perhaps The Greatest Horse Ever" yutube video stating he Beyer insisted SEC used steroids. He says he is a Hravard graduate and went to school with Beyer but he is absolutely full of crap!
In the words of Master Racing Strategist Russel A. Cardenas. Quote: To the colt's final start in the International on deep Canadian soil under adverse weather conditions. Stalking or leading the pace for the duration, that performance recorded a stakes margin of victory record of near seven lengths, an accomplishment seldom achieved by pace setters running long distances on grass. It was the finale that secured for Secretariat the Eclipse title for Grass Horse of the Year. Cont.
@rscarbro100 Cape Blanco won the Irish Champion Stakes in 2010 setting the pace and pulling away in the stretch to win by a similar margin to Sec in Canada. But Cape Blanco's was a shorter race at 10f and his jockey was really giving it to him in the final furlongs. Sec won the 13f CIS by 6.5 L in a romp, shut down at the wire. What a 'Hoss' indeed! CB does remind me of his great dam sire, General Assembly - ICS 2010 and Travers '79 are similar, though the latter is greater by far.
Sennnnsational!! I think it's kinda kewl that Eddie Maple rode him...what with the Canadian Maple Leaf and all... :) I know he was one nervous jockey. ♥
It's quite entertaining how he gets backed into a corner; all he seems to be able to do is throw out insults as if they have any impact. At the ned of the day, the anger, bigotry and insults actually define who he is as a person...an immature juvenile who can't handle himself in any other way. My apologies for insulting the immature juveniles of the world with that analogy.
The concept of this fool is to enter the video by complaining about the American celebration of Sec and to, then, simply trash everything American. He follows by doing the exact same thing that he complains about. He cannot answer to Simon Rowlands PERSONAL assessment of Sec by awarding him a TF of 153. It took multiple postings before he simply denied it's authenticity. When offered the link...no response.
@Dannykeith46 I watched many European horses race on those turfs tracks of theirs. Not one race I have seen those tracks nowhere the condition this one was raced on besides the strong winds and cold weather. Big Red ran it in 2:41 & change with ease without Turcotte aboard. It was amazing after running about a mile he left the field the way he did. Never seen a European horse do that & they run theirs in a much slower pace as well. Its a no brainer for the ones that have brains.
@rscarbro100 & "BBMTGE" - Aside from his myriad of records, what is frightening is that SEC was getting BIGGER, STRONGER & BETTER and had he raced as a 4 year-old he would have added numerous more records to his trophy case, and might have even been sent to Europe to crush their "so-called" great horses. Charles Hatton and Kent Hollingsworth, two of the foremost horse racing authorities both saw Man o'War insisted SEC was the GREATEST HORSE EVER...PERIOD! Happy Holidays to both of you!
@Dannykeith46 Happy Holidays to you, too and to rscarbro. Another bit of info on Sec. 3/14/73 in a workout at Belmont. Remember...this is 6 weeks prior to his 3rd birthday.
@bbmtge And he was yet 2 yrs. old at the time he ran that 3/8 workout in 1:32 3/5. Might add one of those quarters was in 21 1/5 seconds only 2/5 off the WR and the 32 3/5 was a world record at that time. He was braking world records before he turned 3. What other horse ever done that? Right, not one that I know of.
@rscarbro100 Merry Christmas!!! By the way, I believe you have stated before that Sec still had some winter weight on him during that workout. I would also be willing to bet that he was none the worse for the wear after that workout and still had some reserve left in him. Absolutely like no other!!! He could, simply, do it all whether it was 3/8th's of a mile or 2 miles.
@bbmtge - I remember reading in Bill Nack's book that Lauren was dumbfounded after that 32-3/5 run. Imagine averaging 10.87 furlong fractions over 3/8 of a mile!!!! Amazingly, Hatton did say Lauren/Turcotte never got to more than 80/90% of Secretariat's full potential with most of his great record breaking runs via a simple hand ride through the stretch. Believe me, ALL of those Eurpoean enthusiasts KNOW SEC was "one of a kind" which is why they absolutely FEAR him in the worst way!
@Dannykeith46 The Euro-Trash that denigrate Sec use the same crap every time. "Time does not matter" is all they can come up with. Stop and think what would happen if a horse appeared on the horizon in Europe that simply obliterated the previous records and had them redefining greatness. I guess you cannot blame them completely as WE were lucky enough to experience this concept while all they get is more of the same.
@bbmtge Like I always said my goog friend, If Secretariat had been a European horse, his name and time fractions would be more hallowed than the queen of England and Winston Churchil. European enthusiasts just can't stand the thought of owning up to the fact that an American horse was the most supernatural thoroughbred of all-time!
@Dannykeith46 I don't think any horse or sportsman/woman will ever come close to Winston Churchill lol anyway im a Brit & Secretariat was an all time great no doubts about it.People will always have their opnion on who was the greatest horse off all time in fact Secretariat comes 2nd on The Blood-Horse magazine list and they are American only horses! Man o' War tops the list.Hardly any point moaning about Euro sceptics when he doesn't even top the American list of great horses rofl
@MrConnolly25 - FYI, SEC finished 2nd on the American list because one of the eight Bloodhorse voters was a Man o' War diehard and voted SEC 14th because he knew that would skew the overall results...FACT! You can say whatever you want, but the fact remains Secretariat did things on a racetrack NO HORSE will ever repeat. I strongly feel horses like Sea Bird II, Nijiinsky, Ribot, Sea the Stars, etc. were also amazing horses and worthy of top 10 consideration. Best Regards!
@Dannykeith46 Thats the whoe point though isn't it lol your a diehard Secretariat fan some people over here (UK) bang on about Shergar others Nijinsky,Sea the Stars etc etc.People will always argue who was the best ever,its pretty pointess really a great horse is a great horse period.
@bbmtge If Secretariat was sent to Europe as a 4 year old, the people there (including that Scotsman) would be hailing him as the greatest racehorse to ever set foot on a track. He was even more devastating on turf, and he would have eaten up all those hills and trenches they got over there. If Hill Rise could win the QEII Stakes in '66 and be named Champion UK Miler for that year, imagine what Sec at 4 would have done in a race like the Eclipse, KG VI, QEII or Arc. Utter destruction.
@rcschumann - FINALLY...someone telling it like it is! Trust me...those European enthusiasts are "kissing the ground" beacuse Secretariat retired at 3. They KNOW he would have raced overseas at 4 and absolutely CRUSHED their horses. NO horse would have been able to keep pace with Secretariat at 4...even if he carriied 140 lbs!
@bbmtge We have another dipshit on the "Secretariat Perhaps The Greatest Horse Ever" yutube video stating Beyer insisted SEC used steroids. He says he is a Harvard graduate and went to school with Beyer but he is absolutely full of crap! Lots of fun with this loser!
@Dannykeith46 Thanks my good man but you are mistaken about Kent Hollingsworth, He was born in 1930 and died in 1999 at the age of 69 yrs. You probably mean Hollie Hudges. The list I have that has seen both were Hatton, Hudges , Rose Hamburger, George Cassidy, Mike Casale, Gene Schwartz, Shorty Archer And did know a few more that has seen both all said Secretariat the better. Kent did say Secretariat seperated himself from all the other greats with his win in the Belmont.
@rscarbro100 - I did mean Hollie Hughes - thank you for pointing out the oversight. FYI, Kent Hollingsworth did say there will NEVER be another horse like Secretariat. Best wishes to you my friend!
@Dannykeith46 None of the Man 0' War or Citation lovers can name me 'ONE' person that has seen both that said Man 0' War was the better. They said there was but no names. Ai'nt that a good one. Ed Bowen did not see MOW but said Secretariat was the best he ever seen and he did see Citation.
I will qualify that by saying that sometimes a trainer doesn't know if his colt will stay a certain distance beforehand, and will often run them in lesser events to see if it does or not. A horse not being able to stay is not a reflection on the trainer's ability - yet, a top trainer, with ambitions of winning any big race, will usually make sure he has a horse fit for the job in hand - like Dermot Weld, for instance. He wouldn't have bothered entering Go And Go in The Belmont Stakes otherwise.
@ThefightingCelt Seriously I truly can say you do not qualify to say much of anything from what I have been reading in your post. Like I said in a earlier post Sea Bird & Ribot only could manage to run those turf tracks for a 1 1/2 mile in about 2:34 & change or worse. Seattle Slew won his Belomt on a heavy track in 2:29 & change. Tell us those European tracks were even slower than a muddy heavy deep track.1:34 flat mile workout for Secretariat in 'MUD'. How about that?
@rscarbro100 You still fail to understand - or choose not to. Either way, any further discussion with you is pointless.You do not wish to be educated. You are blinded by all things American. Slop, even on one of America's top tracks is so very different from soft and heavy surfaces on European turf tracks. Steve Haskins acknowledges this fact and highlights it as one of the major differences between US and European.NO horse can run 2.29 on any European track when the surface is soft or heavy.
@ThefightingCelt - Secretariat ran a spectacular 2:26-3/5 in a 1-1/2 mile race in the rain soaked mud, and I can PROMISE YOU that a drenched muddy surface is just as bad, if not worse, than wet turf. Furthermore, SEC was training on TURF for 2 weeks and was ridiculously thrown into this race at the "11th hour". You are correct in saying that wet turf is very difficult to run a world-class time on, but any severe muddy track is equally as bad. Now let's see what half-assed response you have?
@rscarbro100 - You can't win with this loser. The more sense you make, the more ignorant his responses get so why waste your time? Bottom line is he and his fellow UK/Euro-trash are SO INTIMIDATED by Secretariat's performances, they will stop at nothing to dismiss his superiority. They cannot possibly be a stupid as their worthless comments that provide ZERO fact or substance so I must believe their dismissal of every supernatural SEC occurrence is due to their sheer jealousy!
@Dannykeith46 I know that my good man. He is a lover of himself and his country and cannot see past his jealous and 'Bias' temperment. His lose his cool when we educate him. When you talk about time they know they lose everytime and to counter that attack its always 'Times' means nothing besides their turf track are some 30 to 50 lengths slower. Taking about insane, he takes the cake and gobbles it too.I am beginning to feel sorry for this guy. He really needs help.(smile)
A mile and half is not considered a staying race in Britain, Ireland or France. It is classed as a middle distance event, where speed allied to stamina is required. But, when the ground conditions vary tremendously, it can have great bearing on the outcome of any race, just as it can in America, where a horse that is suited to fast going can be inconvenienced by slop. To say that a trainer has no bearing on a horse's track performance is naive - and suggests that you still have much to learn.
@ThefightingCelt Charles Whittingham was a great trainer that trained Sunday Silence and many great horses. With all his ability his horse could not handle Easy Goer in the Belmont.. S.S. just wasn't the stayer like the Big Easy. Its simple as that. You gotta have the horse and without that no amount of training will help.He trained CougarII but he was not a stayer as well.
bbmtge, I would be utterly shocked and amazed if your dear old dad wasn't wiser than you. In fact, you are to wisdom what George W. Bush was to world peace and as dan Quayle is to spelling. Astonishing that Dermot Weld, primarily renouned as a jumps trainer ( ie he trains racehorses which leap over fences plus a few on the flat ) can show up in America with an average horse and win one of your most prestigious races by 8 lengths - The Belmont Stakes. He beat Unbridled, the 6/5 favourite.
1) This idiot, CelticAnal, came to this video disparaging Sec, and U.S. horseracing in general.
2) He then says that the differences in tracks and racing make it so you cannot compars U.S. and European racing thus comepletely invalidating his previous comments
3) Then, he returns to the remarks about trashing U.S. racing and vaunting European racing
4) Funny how it's European...NOT SCOTTISH, racing!!!
5) When confronted with the inof as to Mr. rowlands TF for Sec, he lies, it doesn't exist.
DannyKeith, I would be utterly shocked and amazed if your dear old dad wasn't wiser than you. In fact, you are to wisdom what George W. Bush was to world peace and as dan Quayle is to spelling. Astonishing that Dermot Weld, primarily renouned as a jumps trainer ( ie he trains racehorses which leap over fences plus a few on the flat ) can show up in America with an average horse and win one of your most prestigious races by 8 lengths - The Belmont Stakes. He beat Unbridled, the 6/5 favourite.
@ThefightingCelt He trained Go and Go for 2 yrs. and managed to win only 6 races out of 15. He should have went back to traing jumping horses for sure. He was lucky to have a horse like Go and Go who had great stamina for a 1 1/2 mile race with that great strecth drive in the Belmont. I believe it was mostly the horse not the trainer the reason he won the Belmont. He was much less impressive racing under 1 1/2 mile distance. What do you believe little 'Wise Man'?
@rscarbro100 Little, no ! Wise, yes ! Dermot Weld, master trainer. Ask the Aussies. He has also gone to Melbourne with two good horses ( not great ) , and won their main event ( The Melbourne Cup ) twice. Weld is particularly adept at training stayers. He knew that the better American dirt horses are not really bred to stay further than 10 f - and knew Go and Go would be perfect for the Belmont. None of your best 10-12f middle distance horses would beat ours on European turf. Just won't happen.
@ThefightingCelt Your probably right. Now days our horses are bred for shorter distance and all the Arabs bought up all our good stayers that came for horses like Secretariat, Easy Goer, Point Given to name a few. You admit I'm correct it was the horse not the trainer the reason Go and Go won the Belmont because he was a stayer. If most of our trainers trained Go and Go he would haved won as well. You are Wise"? I am falling in the floor with laughter. Spare me the pain.
@rscarbro100 ...and I nearly fell off my high horse when you said I was right. No, I do not agree that it is the horse alone. Without the assistance of an able trainer, a good horse can become a very average horse very quickly.Weld's is held in the highest regard among his peers.Go and Go may have won with another GOOD trainer minding him, but its usually the case that less talented or able trainers can inhibit a horse's potential. There is a saying here that bad trainers couldnt train a donkey
@ThefightingCelt If he was such a good trainer why did Go And Go win only 6 of 15 races? He got Go And Go in real good shape and Go And Go did the rest. It doesn't take a great trainer to do that. His overall record was poor to say the least. He was lucky Go And Go was a stayer or his ass would have been 'MUD' in the Belmont. I guess Go And Go was a 'Donkey' when it came to short distance races and Mr. Weld with all his materful training ability could not do swat about it.
@rscarbro100 Again, and I really have to emphasise this - European trainers, be they Irish ( like Weld ), British, French etc all use different methods. Weld ( he's also an animal vet ) is trainer who likes to aim his horses at specific targets and will train his horses accordingly. That being the case, he will forego winning one or two races with a particular horse in order to have him ( or her ) spot on for the main event. I'm quite sure that some US trainers do the same thing.
As recently as 1990, Irish trained horse, Go and Go, travelled to the US with his trainer Dermot Weld, to contest the third leg of the American Triple Crown, The Belmont Stakes. He won ! He wasn't, and still isn't, considered to be a great horse in my part of the world.
As recently as 1990, Irish trained horse, Go and Go, travelled to the US with his trainer Dermot Weld, to contest the third leg of the American Triple Crown, The Belmont Stakes. He won ! He wasn't, and still isn't, considered to be a great horse in my part of the world.
What I will say is that racing on American dirt surfaces and European turf is like night and day so it is impossible to gauge the merits of different champions. Even American, Canadian and Australian turf surfaces are very different from those in France, GB and Ireland. In fact, Paul Mellon, an American who bred and owned the great Mill Reef, decided against racing him at all in the USA and instead sent him to be trained in England, because he thought the colt wouldn't handle dirt.
@ThefightingCelt Kingston Rule the son of Secretariat won the 1990 Melbourne Cup in a record time of 3:16:3. This time still stands as the record today. Phar Lap fastest time at that track was about 3:32 & change. I tell you the difference and its not the tracks. Its the damm horse good buddy. You cant tell anyone that them truf tracks over in Europe or Australia are some 25 lengths or more slower than the American dirt tracks. Try another excuse.
@rscarbro100 - My father (God rest his saintly soul) was a VERY WISE man and once told me you will come across people that will point to a granny smith apple and insist it is "red delicious" to satisfy some warped or twisted reasoning of theirs. The best answer you can possibly give is to say...yeah...OK...whatever??? I now fully understand that the type of ignorant fools my dad was referring to were "legends in their own minds" such as "The fighthingCelt" and "MrItaliano"..sad to say!
The horse who finished third behind Sea-Bird in the 1965 Arc, was another French colt named Diatome, who following his defeat to Sea-Bird, travelled to America to compete in the Washington International. Among the horses he faced was US 4 year old Roman Brother, named American overall horse of the year (1965 ). Diatome won the race, defeating not only Roman Brother, but also a number of other very good American horses,thus franking the form of Sea-Bird. Timeform still agree that SB was the best.
Sea-Bird's Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe ( Europe's best and most prestigious middle distance race over a mile and a half ) victory is still considered among European and racing experts as the best ever and the performance which still sets the standard by which all other winners of that race are judged. It contained the best ever field assembled for that race, among them 4 Derby winners from other countries and Tom Rolfe, the Preakness winner and US 3 year old horse of 1965. Sea-Bird won with ease.
Sea-Bird attained his rating of 145 - when it should have been 149 - because Timeform chose to disregard the official winning distance of his 1965 Arc win and instead downgraded his winning margin over the then unbeaten French Derby winner, Reliance to 4 and a half lengths instead of the Longchamps judge's official six. He won all his 3 year old races without coming off the bit. He had the most majestic stride ever seen in a racehorse. He glided over the ground.He won five Group races in 1965.
Until narrow minded Yankee Doodles can grasp the significant differences between European and American horse racing - AS YOUR OWN RESPECTED RACING JOURNALIST, STEVE HASKINS HAS DONE - then, and only THEN, will you begin to understand that race times and fractions hold much more sway on your side of the Atlantic than they do on ours. Haskins compared many aspects of US and European racing - and concluded that in NEARLY ALL ASPECTS ( BUT NOT ALL ), EUROPEAN RACING CAME OUT BEST Learn from him
Note how I'm so biased towards British trained horses that I have ONLY included one that was trained there - Mill Reef - and yet I have included three that were trained in the USA, So much for my prejudiced views, eh !
@ThefightingCelt - And you are the PERFECT example of"Euro-Trash"...someone that will knock ANYTHING relating to the USA. What is amazing is that we saved your sorry ass from Hitler, and we STILL field insults from UK/European trash such as yourself. Secretarat supporters use hard core FACTS to support their case while Euro-trash use emotional comments with NO STATISTICAL BACKING, WHATSOEVER! You will NEVER respond to SEC's supernatural feats beacuse there really is NO SENSIBLE RESPONE!!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 He just doesnt want to learn. He really knows nothing about American tracks and hoe their composition, bias and weather have produced wide ranges of fractions. Again, the emphasis is on hatred and bigotry versus facts. He quotes one sentence form timemeasure yet the article clearly states that horses are expected to run a stanbdard time that varies depending on the track. We have the same issues here in the difference, in a general sense, between east and west coast tracks...
@Dannykeith46 The issue comes down to a horse who comes along and isdoing things that have never been seen prior. This is exactly what Sec did and why fractions in every system are important. It's just taking into account the variables and the standard of what has been seen in terms of racing time. He can make all of the comments he wants but, Sec set a standard that no other TB in history has even approached...with ease. This is why he wont comment on Mr. Rowlands assessing Sec at TF 153!!!
@Dannykeith46 Timeform's highest ever flat rating was Sea Bird at 145. Simon Rowlands, head of research and handicapping at TIMEFORM, the company and system celebrated by CeltAnal did his own research a awarded Sec "an astonishing 153"...he further comments that Century of Champions gave Sec ONLY 144. This is a clear indication that Mr. Rowlands believes there is a problem with that rating. In the end, Big Red enjoys the highest BSF AND the highest Timeform (when calculated without prejudice).
@bbmtge Bbmtge/Danny Keith. One and the same person. I'm sure the other viewers are well aware of this fact already. He posts to himself in order to convince himself and others. Simon Rowlands did no such thing. Tony Morris and John Randall are among the most eminent racing authorities in the world. Morris ( in his 60s ) is considered the pre-eminent expert in his field. He approaches everything from an unbiased viewpoint and only bases his findings on form lines and factual information.
@ThefightingCelt - Once again you are kidding...right??? Tony Morris and John Randall are the MOST BIASED Europoean horse analysts IN THE WORLD and Simon Rowlans DID award SEC a 153 TF rating! For years, Euro-trash analysts have been pulling out ALL possible measures to downgarde SEC beacuse deep down they KNOW just how incredible he was. Botom line is I do sincerely respect your passion for your horses, it is an admirable quality, but your zeal blinds you to the truth.
@ThefightingCelt - Think of it this way, Sea Bird II's 144 TF is based on 7 wins...think about that...ONLY 7 wins! Let's separate east and west for a second and think about what SEC did in relation to North American racing. He eclipsed various records in 8 of his 9 wins including ALL triple crown races and "galluped" to TWO world records (GALLUPED!!!) Therefore, SEC's acomplishments in "his" racing world FAR OUTWEIGH ANY HORSE EVER in "their" racing world. It really is that simple!
@ThefightingCelt - con't: Bottom line is NO HORSE EVER dominated the sport more than Secretariat. You and your fellow Euro "so-called" experts can dismiss times/fractions all you want but over a myriad of races, they are still the best way of separateing the "men from the boys"! If Secretariat was a European horse, you would be singing his praises every minute of every day!
@ThefightingCelt Now you finish yourself off as a complete LIAR...LOL. Funny how folks who cant hold up to scrutiny find themselves having to LIE. Mr. Rowlands did just that. Would you like the link where he states this and using the adjective ASTONISHING? I'msure that even after reading it, you will deny it. Anyone who actually studies the BSF and Timeform would know that 144 is not realistic and convenently behind Sea Bird who did nothing in his career that approaches Sec 3 YO season.
@ThefightingCelt - In case you didn't know (which like everything else you don't!), Citation's iconic jockey Eddie Arcaro said SEC was BETTER than Citation and the greatest horse he ever saw. 2) Two of America's greatest racing analysts ever, Charles Hatton and Hollinsworth both saw Man o' War and SEC and easily agreed that SEC was, by far, the better horse and the greatest thoroughbred in race horsing history. So much for your pathetic list but I guess you know more than Citation's jockey!
Note how I'm so biased towards British trained horses that I have ONLY included one that was trained there - Mill Reef - and yet I have included three that were trained in the USA, So much for my prejudiced views, eh !
@ThefightingCelt - An oversight on your part: You almost forgot to place good ole Winston Churchill along with Queen Elizabeth on your list since they obviously would have been able to "walk" to the finish line since time doesn't matter and maybe win some of those races with their competition being turtles! FYI, you have totally earned this sarcasm via your "off the charts" comments and top 10 comedy act list. Go back to sleep and revisit the coma you have been living in most of your life!
@ThefightingCelt - Thank you - your top 10 list just confirmed your insanity. Any list with Secretariat #10 is absolutely biased as well as ludicrous. You know NOTHING about premier race horses and you CONTINUE to not respond to FACTS. Why not take SEcretariat off the list completely and place Queen Elizabeth as #1??? Any serious thoroughbred racing enthusiast would laugh at this UKbigoted listed. P.S. - Onthe U.S. front, SEC would have CRUSHED Man o' War!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Until you narrow minded Yankee Doodles can grasp the significany differences between Eoropean and American horse racing - AS YOUR OWN RESPECTED RACING JOURNALIST, STEVE HASKINS HAS DONE - then, and only THEN, will you begin to understand that race times and fractions hold much more sway on your side of the Atlantic than they do on ours. Haskins compared many aspects of US and European racing - and concluded that in NEARLY ALL ASPECTS ( BUT NOT ALL ), EUROPEAN RACING CAME OUT BEST Learn from him
@ThefightingCelt - Again, Haskins is a SOLE opinion. I will compose a list for your of some of the premier race horse analysts that place SEC #1. You UK freaks hold onto outlandish opinions like mother hens tending to their offspring. Pathetic...and you still haven't responded to SEC increasing his speed from start to finishover 1-1/4 miles. Why? I'll tell you why....YOU CAN'T. If Sea Bird II or any of your other poor excuses for thororoughbreds ever accomplished that it would be world news!
@Dannykeith46 Go to Haskins' blog and see if his is the sole voice of America. You will find, once again, that you are very wrong. You are the troll, not me.
Timeform - opening paragraphs - " The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
As always, desperate attempts to make excuses for horses who simply are unable to run a given time over a given distance. To state that a factor involved in winning a race and judging performance means practically nothing is merely a defense mechanism. It's away to justify a predetermined outcome, a way to justify a system that supposedly measures performance by omitting a very important factor. Thus, there is no point in even measuring fractional or final time. See where this is going?
@bbmtge - To state that racing times are irrelevant borders on insanity. Of course there are mitigating factors such as track condtions, weather, jockey error and the pace of a race...perfectly understood. But when a horse sets 6 OFFICIAL world or track records out of 12 races in a calendar year as well as TWO unofficial World Records via 1/8 of a mile post-finish line "gallups", the times specically point to a supernatural occurrence that comes along ONCE IN A LIFETIME!
@Dannykeith46 My good man...keep him "chatting" and keep up the great research. He's digging a hole for himself...deeper and deeper. It goes to show you that hatred and utter bigotry will blind a fool every time. He has even crossed himself up with respect to timeform and time measure. THEY even indicate Sec greatness to another level. But, like I said, please keep him chatting.
Timeform - opening paragraphs - " The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
" The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance CONVEYS, of itself, PRATICALLY NOTHING. It has to be CONSIDERED IN RELATION to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
@ThefightingCelt Here's a scenario: What if a racehorse - in 3rd place, 2 horses in front of him - stopped just before the wire & performed an astonshingly Moving, Graceful Interpretive Dance? A Dance heretofore, never seen performed by a racehorse (while he's completing a horse race?) Would this cause the winner to be 're-evaluated'? I.E., would the ethereal beauty & uniqueness of said Interpretive Dance (by an Equine) cause the dancing racehorse to be declared the 2nd or 1st place winner?
@ThefightingCelt - FYI, I've just posted on several extremely European biased horse ranking forums and the consensus by a myriad of European and Australian enthusiasts is that you cannot compare Frankel to great horses who ran over 1 mile distances. Even UK and Australian experts agree that 1 mile superiority just doesn't "cut it" if you want to match up to the all-time greats. I find it interesting that many other Europeans agree on that issue. You CANNOT compare Frankel to Secretariat!
@Dannykeith46 Have you ever heard the expression, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink ( or think, in your case ). One day the penny ( or cent ) will drop ! Of course, you cannot compare Frankel with Secrtariat - as both raced over different disatnces, on different continents, on different courses, and on different surfaces - which is exactly the point I've been trying hard to hammer into your small brain all along. Once you grasp those differences, then you might get it.
@Dannykeith46 Which is my very point exactly - hence why it is just as odious to compare horses who compete in different continents and on different surfaces as it is to compare champion racehorses who whose victories have been gained at a certain distance. As for our biased forums. That made me laugh. There are no more biased horse racing forums than those which operate in the good old U S of A. Visit TheRacingForum UK ( the best out there ) and learn a thing or two... or three !
@ThefightingCelt - Last but not least...NO horse has ever been recorded as speeding up from the gate to the wire in a 1-1/8 mile+ race in the history of the sport. Yet, on May 5, 1973, Secretariat defied the laws of physics when he ran each quarter of a 1-1/4 mile race (Kentucky Derby) FASTER than the prior quarter. In other words, he sped up from start to finish, with his last 1/4 fraction in an unftahomable 23 seconds! If you consider that irrelevant you are truely ignorant.
If you think you are attempting to make any reasonable points, you need to start by reviewing each of your posts and apologizing, one by one, for your bigoted remarks.
Interesting how the BSF uses variants to adjust the rating based on track conditions including variants, under the same weather conditions, of previous races. Thus a final time that is, for example, 2 seconds off of another trme under ideal conditions may, in fact, yield a higher score. As staed, now, again. Sec earned thew highest BSF and according to the HEAD of Research and Handicapping of Timeform, Sec earned a TF of 153. You may continue to try, but you always come up short.
" The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
@ThefightingCelt - OK Genius...let's try this. NO horse EVER in 140 years, 420+ races and nearly 4,000 horses has matched Seretariat's speed in the 3 TC races. Forget that these were North American horses. Doesn't it say something that ONE horse owns ALL 3 records when that ONE horse can only run EACH race once? Forget dirt vs. turf, it is irrelevant. The FACT is if THOUSANDS of North American horses fall short over nearly a century and a half...it is most likely ANY horse would have!
@ThefightingCelt - Regarding Turf, Secretariat's FIRST turf race resulted in a remarkable 2:24-4/5 time for 1-1/2 miles when he CRUSHED the finest North American turf runner 4-year old Tim Tam. So much for the turf issue. FYI, this record setting performance was only 9 days after he ran 1-1/2 miles on DIRT. Who does that? Your horses take months off between 1 mile races. On turf or dirt, Secretariat would have blasted Frankel. SEC has the times to prove it..you have speculative Bulls#%$!!!!
@ThefightingCelt I'm reluctant to respond to you, as (1) It's not my intent to seem intrusive; (2) I suspect you're a troll. However, IF racetimes 'convey nothing', why would any race (Human, Equine, Canine) be........timed? Are you suggesting Racing is a somewhat 'existential experience' and the 'winner' of a race is.....'subject to interpretation'? LM.#.A.O!!!! I'm sorry, I just can't help myself.....this is surreal, Mr. Celt.
The reality is that the onus is on a person making a claim to be able to support that claim, or any other, through a methodology. Otherwise we are left with nothing but CLAIMS. Phrases such as "I refuse to accept..." fall in that category. Smear, bigotry, insults fall in that category. CLAIMS of "you dont understand" fall in that category. When an individual provides nothing more than CLAIMS interspersed with said smear and bigotry they actually DEFINE themself as nothing more than illogical.
You mention Timeform. Here is a paragraph from Timeform's website where they talk about how they consider times in context to other factors. The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
I reiterate - once you begin to grasp the significant differences and nuances between US dirt racing and European turf racing, then - and only THEN, will you start to understand. One ? will suffice thank you, as will one exclamation mark. My eyes are sore trying read your mess.
As stated, Mr. Rowlands, head of research and handicapping at TimeForm did his own research and stated that Sec earned a TF of 153,,,the highest ever. Remember the basic difference between the BSF and TF. The TF favors level of competition meaning that a horse could run a slow time but defeat inferior competition by a said distance and therefore earn a high rating. The BSF is time over surface run, a much more accurate process to compare horses form different eras. Sec score the highest in BOTH.
You have to love the line of reasoning that continually states that fractions are not important, now LESS important. Thus, the argument that the overall time, along with the fractions, are of less significance. This, even in a one mile race on turf that is a straight race, no turns. Now, these same horses, who are running 5 and 6 seconds off of American times, MAGICALLY, can beat any American horses that they choose. The thought process remains in the realm of "it is because I say so".
I still maintain that over mile, only one horse would have given Frankel a race ... ON TURF. That horse was the mighty Brigadier Gerard. Dr Fager was a very good horse - he too would have beaten Secretariat ata mile - on dirt or turf, and whether you think me biased or not, I cannot accept that Dr. Fager was a superior animal to those two British heavyweight champions - and to use your parlance ... enough already about those fractions for gawdsakes !
Those people, apart from Frankie Dettori, did indeed see Secretariat run. You can use as many exclamation marks ( grammatically wrong, but there you go - that's Americans for you ) as you like, but you still fail to grasp, or accept, as your fellow American, Steve Haskins has done, that race fractions are of much less importance in European racing - hence why race they are still not officially recorded - because they are generally misleading. Come back when you too accept that fact.
Sir Henry Cecil ( revered multiple group 1 and classic English trainer ) : " Frankel is the best horse I have ever seen " - Frankie Dettori - " No horse I have ridden, raced against or seen, would have beaten Frankel - he is the best ever ! " Willie Carson ( retired jockey of Dayjur, Troy, etc ) : " Frankel is THE BEST horse in the history of horse racing ! " Jim McGrath ( Australian race commentator and analyst - " I have never and will never see another as good as Frankel ! "
@ThefightingCelt - Do you want me to start quoting the "hundred's" of thoroughbred experts who called Secretariat the greatest horse ever including Charles Hatton (who also saw Man o' War), Eddie Acarco (who RODE Citation & Kelso), etc.... Those people NEVER saw Secretariat run and would NEVER rate an American horse #1 anyway. ANSWER THE QUESTION PLEASE...how can you rate a horse who NEVER ran more than 1 mile greater than SEC??? SEC would have CRUSHED Frankel in a 1 mile race on turf!!!!
@ThefightingCelt - Forget Secretariat....horses such as Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, and Dr. Fager (maybe the premier 1 miler in horse racing history) would have also BLASTED Frankel over a 1 mile distance on YOUR turf! YOU CANNOT dismiss times beacuse the best time wins the race. These horses I have mentioned all posted world class times SEVERAL TIMES for 1 mile distances...please...you and your "experts" are embarassing yourselves stating Frankel is better than Secretariat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You still can't see the wood for the trees, can you. I urge you to read Haskins' blog. The whole European v American horse racing comparisons and differences will become very much clearer - hopefully. He spells out why times on American racetracks will always be faster, given the nature of your surfaces and the ease and tight turns of your tracks - but he states that this doesn't indicate that America has the better racehorses. Best Horses? Haskins " This of course, is difficult to say ! "
@ThefightingCelt - Don't foret MANY of Secretariat's great times were posted running 2 to 3 horses wide the WHOLE race! Other than the Belmont wher he ran inside the whole race, Secretariat typically was more comfortable running extremely wide so there goes your theory about "the ease" of Ametrican race tracks since, if that statement is true, SEC typically gave up his adavantage by losing serious ground/lengths on each turn. I am patiently waiting for a response to Beyer's recent 139 rating?
Steve Haskins' blog from BloodHorse. He compares all aspects of horse racing in Europe to that in America. He visited many racecourses ( racetracks to you ) in the UK and Ireland, as well as Longchamps and Chantilly in France. Haskins is an American racing journalist of many decades' experience and a fervent follower of US horse racing. He has visited countless tracks across the USA. His conclusions, vis-a- vis Europe v US racing you WILL disagree with, but they are totally without prejudice.
LOL I'm playing you all like a fiddle here. Frankel, currently rated the best horse in the world right now. But Hey you guys ( you like being called guys don't you ? - even your gals like being called guys lol ), don't let that FACT hinder your thoughts. Why don't you read your own Steve Haskins' very well written blog - a respected US journalist, who visited many European racecourses during 2009 order to compare our racing with that his beloved U.S horse racing. Very interesting reading. ; )
You have finally lost the plot, bbmtge. Seek counselling asap - isn't that the normal course of action for disturbed Americans ? lol Frankel is a better racehorse than Secretariat ever was, let alone Sea-Bird, Ribot, Brigadier Gerard, Nijinsky, Mill Reef, Phar Lap, Citation or Man 'O War. : )
downpour, and with the turf being knee deep after a week of rain, and
all that against a 25 miles an hour wind. It was so bad that you could
hardly see the back stretch. Source Ron Turcotte. The mile was ran in 1:37 3/5 about the fastest time Frankel ever ran a mile from the chute on a dry fast turf. I watched Frankel St. James race. I thought it was a 1 1/16 mile race because it seemed so long to get to the finish line.Cont.
@ThefightingCelt I was in total shock once I learned it was only a mile race and he ran it in 1:39.24. I said to myself this cannot be. Gotta be a mistake. So I checked twice and it is correct. Then you say Frankel was better than Secretariat whom ran a mile in 'MUD' in 1:34 flat in a workout. Now I will have to double check to see if you are register in a insane asylum or has taken to many drugs in all due respect of course..BTW, do you wear one of those high top hats?Hehehe
@ThefightingCelt No doubt you are a young teenager but let me get you on to a little secret. Frankel just has not got the speed to even run against our G-3 horses let alone running against any of our G-1 stake horses. Frankel just has not got the speed little buddy and he his whipped so bad just to get a 1:39.24 time in the St, James Palace race. But if it makes you feel good to think he is better than Secretariat I will let you dream on & give you a pass.(smile)
@rscarbro100 Great stuff, my friend. As you will see with this child, he is simply another malcontent running his mouth about some very slow European horses. And I mean...VERY SLOW.
@ThefightingCelt All mouth and no substance. You cant deal with facts so you simply continue on a line of "It is because I say so". A textbook flaw that is used by fools who cannot logically make or support a claim. Congratulations!!! In that area, you have been consistent throughout your posts. The bigotry, playing victim, etc...you wear it well.
@ThefightingCelt - Frankel??? You are joking right? He has NEVER ran more than 1 mile and you are staing he is better than Secretariat....can you share some of those drugs you are taking??? FYI, I just posted that Andrew Beyer...the foremost horse racing speed analyst just revised SEC's speed raring based on 2011 methodologies with SEC recieving an incredible 139 rating or 4 points higher tha Frankel's 135??? When Frankel runs superior races at 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 miles we will talk!
Ok, ok ... let's play devil's advocate just one more time here. If time is so important in horse races, and you use it as an unequivocal yardstick, would you therfore place the current mile and half dirt record holder, a humble handicapper called Hawkster, who ran 2min 22 4/5 Santa Anita, Oct 14th, 1989, above the "great" Secretariat. By your twisted logic and skewed reasoning you would. I wouldn't ! Over to you, bud.
@ThefightingCelt Ah...again the chose ignorance in the desperate hope of supporting a predetermined and prejudiced view. You are makng this too easy with your stupidity. Hawkster ran his race on turf, not dirt. Hawkster carried 121 pounds. Hawksetr ran his race at Santa Anita. That track is partially downhill AND the CA circuit, turf and dirt, have regularly produced times in excess of a full second faster thatn the East Coast tracks. I was under the impression that you were such an authority!!!
@ThefightingCelt Please keep posting. The more you write, the more you show your anger and stupidity. The prejudice and bigotry are only outdone by your compelte lack of a brain. Very funny stuff.
Sea Bird ran 5 times as a 3YO. All turf races. No spectacular time in any race. 1 1/2 miles on turf at ~2:39 and 2:38. Oh, but I forgot, in Europe a RACE...again, RACE is not about time. To beat another horse, your final TIME has to be better...whether the horse is front-runner or a fast closer...whether the pace is fast or slow. As stated, when a horse can't run the TIME, the haters always say that TIME means nothing.
@bbmtge Again, you show what an idiot you are and comments like this only re-inforce your ignoramus status. Stick to chewing gum, saying "awesome, have a nice day and yee haaaa - and whistling dixie. Sea-Bird, who was never out of hack canter in nearly all of his races, would have picked the steroid freak (Secretariat) up and spat him out for breakfast. Sea-Bird won on ground which varied from good ( Epsom Derby ) to soft ( Arc de Triomphe ). You need to up your game yankee boy - big TIME !
No sonny boy, it only highlights your insularity, your prejudice, and above all, your total ignorance about European horse racing. Ask any of the top European trainers: O'Brien, Cecil, Stoute, Hannon, Fabre et al how much emphasis or importance they attach to fractions or time. Time is useful guide only when used in conjuction with other determining factors, such as going, wind, tactics, pace, track difficulty etc. The majority of turf races in Europe are tactical affairs - NOT time trials !
@ThefightingCelt Funny how you came to this video and did nothingt but trash-talk. Now, as predicted, you vainly attempt to call the kettle black. The basic foundation of any racehorse has to do with being able to run a certain distance(s) in a certain time. A horse who can run 10 furlongs in 2:20 at best could never win the KD but might run in G3 or allowance races. Your claim that fracitons don't mean anything is just that...a CLAIM..it suits your argument as cover for slower horses.
The greatest supernatual miracle on Earth...was this horse. Secretariat was the embodiment of perfection. Something us humans will never see in each other. A horse that was capable of the unimaginable. His performances in the highest level of competition has never been equaled...The Triple Crown. He was retired when he had not even reached his peak! And he was physically the most gorgeous horse that ever raced. This will never happen again. Thank God it happened at a time it could be recorded.
cmf4321 5 days ago
@cmf4321 - I am so fed up with pathetic so-called "know-it-alls" stating SEC used performance enhancing drugs. I guess Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth used them also because they hit a baseball further than the standard limits set by most baseball players??? If an individual cannot simply recognize supernatural ability and a "once in a lifetime" miracle such as Secretariat, they should try an button their tongues rather than ramble on with outlandish, undocumented accusations!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 days ago
@Dannykeith46 I completely agree! Something about Secretariat brings out some of these people's worse fears...their own mediocrity. What I find interesting is that it seems to be mostly the male gender that makes the accusations. Maybe some of these "boys" (smile) should be taking steroids to feel better about themselves. Secretariat was "pure" confidence! I'm just glad that a woman owned him. His greatness didn't need a man. He was the MAN! lol Glad you're a fan too:-)
cmf4321 4 days ago
Horse racing's greatest decade, the finest horse we will likely ever see running its last race, and what do we get at 2:52? "Coming Up - Olga Korbut & Evel Knievel." AAAHAHAHA! How 70's can you get!
711ATOM 1 week ago
Gives me goosebumps! Such an amazing horse!
WinnieNienna 1 week ago
Lasix is used to thin the blood and therefore increase the oxygen levels supplied to the muscles this is why Euro horses running at the Breeders Cup are described as running 'clean'. This is why it is banned in Europe/Aus/Far East
gweightman 2 weeks ago
@gweightman Not all US horses use Lasix - Graham Motion stated that he never administers it to his horses, and Animal Kingdom won the Kentucky Derby without it, and will be running in the Dubai World Cup next month. Again, seven great US horses won the DWC without Lasix or other meds. SYT was "running clean at the Breeders Cup"?! Really? He was given Lasix and still finished 5th. A monster horse like Cigar was equally good with and without Lasix. Watch him in the Dubai World Cup.
BigPetrov 2 weeks ago
@gweightman There is an American bred harness horse doing well in Australia (Mr. Feelgood) and I have respect for him.
suprsonickath 2 weeks ago
Lets be honest, American horses take as much 'medication' as their baseball and gridiron compatriots which is why they hardly run overseas because they would be stripped of any prizemoney.
gweightman 2 weeks ago
@gweightman SEVEN US horses have won the Dubai World Cup drug free, including Cigar, Curlin, Well Armed and Captain Steve. In 1966, a decent but not great US horse, called Hill Rise, won the QE II Stakes and was named Champion UK Miler for that year. In the US, Lasix doesn't help in performance, otherwise old records like Dr. Fager's Mile and Secretariat's Derby would have been broken long ago. And SYT, who was given Lasix before the Classic, would have done better than 5th.
BigPetrov 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
rcschumann 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
rcschumann 2 weeks ago
@gweightman I'm sure if you got straight A's in school, u probably cheated. If u do well at work, u probably took credit for someone else's work. Ur logic. If u can't recognize the supernatural..the ONE miracle creature on Earth...ur blind to greatness & u will never achieve what u can't recognize. Secretariat WAS the miracle on Earth. The perfect "10" didn't need drugs. He had it ALL..physically &mentally. NO HUMAN ever has. We'll never see anything like this again. And we haven't.
cmf4321 5 days ago
Man, that horse can cover everything xD Turf and Dirt? Rare. ^-^
saramadi100 3 weeks ago
Even the great jock Eddie Arcaro said every person he talked to that seen both said Secretariat the best. Arcaro has seen some greats as well. Rode Whirlaway, Citation, Nashua Assualt, Kelso, Native Dancer. Seen the rest in Dr. Fager, Buckpasser, Damascus, Seattle Slew, Nothern Dancer, Affirmed, Phar Lap and yes Spectacular Bid yet he ranked Secretariat the best he ever seen. He said he seen nothing like him. Pincay ranks him the best. What else can anyone say?
rscarbro100 3 weeks ago
@rscarbro100 - the BEST way of measuring great athletes ovre generations of time is comparing their peak value. With that said, NO HORSE and I mean NO HORSE could have EVER beat Secretariat in many of his great races including his 3 TC races. Man o' War, Citation, Dr. Fager, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Sea Bird II, Shegar, Najiinski, Ribot....NONE of THEM PERIOD could have bested Secretariat at his best...GAME...SET...MATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 3 weeks ago
@Dannykeith46 I couldn't agree with you more my friend. How in the hell can anyone compare SeaBird with him? Its just unreal to think them Europeans think he was better. Its just jealously and bias period. He beat SeaBird time in the Epsom Derby from his Belmont race by 14.4 seconds or 70 2/5 lengths. He ran 2.40 seconds each quarter faster than SeaBird. Notice how SeaBird was whipped silly in that race & them Brits say he was coasting. I wonder what his last quarter time is..
rscarbro100 3 weeks ago
@rscarbro100 - Maybe...just maybe...Euoprean enthusaists should start focusing on time. I am so fed up with hearing "time doesn't matter"??? It is a %$%$#@$ race where the fastest time wins...PERIOD. If their horses want to "crawl" to the tune of 13/14 second 1/8 mile fractions over the first 1/2 mile, that is NOT our problem/issue. At peak value, SEC would have easily ruled over most, if not all, of Europe's/Australia's top horses!
Dannykeith46 3 weeks ago
@Dannykeith46 Times don't mean anything for anyones horse that never did a fast time. This is their defense 'That Times Don't Matter. Daily Racing Forum said the fastest horse will usually get to the finish line first. Makes sense to me. And maybe they just do not know that 'Times' ran tells a pretty good story of how fast a horse is. But I forgot, their horses were 'always eased' or just ran as fast as they needed too. Haha Know you heard all of these & others my good man.
rscarbro100 2 weeks ago
@rscarbro100 - Oh you will "love" this one! I am debating with someone on another forum who is now using Phar Lap's then record time in his sole U.S. as support for Phar lap being as good if not better than SEC. In every previous post, he denounced times as a basis for judging horses??? Now he shifts to Phar Lap's time in that U.S. race! Needless to say I called him out on it, IMMEDIATELY stating you can't have it both ways! I am patiently waiting for his pathetic response.
Dannykeith46 2 weeks ago
@Dannykeith46 They can't have it both ways my good man But they want too anyway don't they? Phar Lap time in the Agua was a very good time in 1932. Big Red Derby 1 1/4 mile time still stands to this day while Phar Lap record was broken the following yr. How many high class of horses have ran the Derby in all these yrs. He beat all of them. The track at Agua was only 2 yrs. old when Phar Lap broke the track record. Phar Lap competition were not of high class horses.
rscarbro100 2 weeks ago
@Dannykeith46 The running of the K.Y. Derby is 137 yrs. old heading for 138 yrs, this May. From such great horses as Old Rosebud to Barbaro who has blazed the Derby never approach his record. I can't find nothing of substance of the horses that ran with Phar Lap at Agua. Nor any horse of substance that ever ran at Agua. Now how is that record at Agua compared to Secretariat Derby? Whoever this guy is your talking about is not very knowledgeable about the history of horse racing.
rscarbro100 2 weeks ago
The facts remain that the Bloodhorse panelist in which none of them worked for Bloodhorse never seen Man 0' War run. How can they make a honest opinion who was best. Lets take a panel of horseman that did see both and we see who wins. I can rack off at least 7 that seen both said Secretariat was the better. Thats the same number of panelist that voted for Bloodhorse. Can't find one old time track horseman that had seen both that said Man 0' War was best. Go figure.
rscarbro100 3 weeks ago
Amazing horse!!!
81Calvarez 1 month ago
do yanks have a clue about race calling? try sitting 3 wide with no cover and on the rails!
080689Brad 1 month ago
Its like he had wings
LopeForestLope 1 month ago
What a horse. just a thing of beauty to watch him run
klhlynn 1 month ago
I love this clip-- and the reminder that coming up is Olga Korbut and Evil Knevil. What an era. Best time ever in sports, when the whole world did NOT participate, when ESPN didn't make a dime off of every step.
Chiareality 1 month ago
@petermacket You didn't bring any evidence to the table that Secretariat took steriods but you sure in the hell did bring plenty of evidence to the table that your a complete bonafide filty mouth asshole that I rank #1 best of all time. Congratulations
rscarbro100 1 month ago
@petermacket You just another one of those jealous Secretariat haters. Your the steriod user trying to make that 1 inch cock of yours a little bigger so you can suck it. Hope you succeed. You already have with that wrapped mind of yours. Hehehe
rscarbro100 1 month ago
@petermacket - With EVERY 2 year old post you make, you simply further prove you are "over the top" jealous of Secretariat's pinnacle status...keep it coming jerkoff so you can continue proving your ignorance like your alleged bullshit Harvard friend!
Dannykeith46 1 month ago
I'm glad that he won his last race. :D
What an amazing horse..
AlienBeliever897 1 month ago 7
When workout scores were greater than 100, the horse was a perfect eight for eight on any surface, whether on slop or on dry top, whether on firm ground or in deep turf in the midst of the cold, sleeting weather of Canada. End of quote. 3 days piror to the race he ran a 5/8 mile workout which by the was was his first full workout in 58 3/5 time breaking the track record by one full second. What a 'Hoss'.
rscarbro100 1 month ago
@rscarbro100 - We have another dipshit on the "Secretariat Perhaps The Greatest Horse Ever" yutube video stating he Beyer insisted SEC used steroids. He says he is a Hravard graduate and went to school with Beyer but he is absolutely full of crap!
Dannykeith46 1 month ago
In the words of Master Racing Strategist Russel A. Cardenas. Quote: To the colt's final start in the International on deep Canadian soil under adverse weather conditions. Stalking or leading the pace for the duration, that performance recorded a stakes margin of victory record of near seven lengths, an accomplishment seldom achieved by pace setters running long distances on grass. It was the finale that secured for Secretariat the Eclipse title for Grass Horse of the Year. Cont.
rscarbro100 1 month ago
@rscarbro100 Cape Blanco won the Irish Champion Stakes in 2010 setting the pace and pulling away in the stretch to win by a similar margin to Sec in Canada. But Cape Blanco's was a shorter race at 10f and his jockey was really giving it to him in the final furlongs. Sec won the 13f CIS by 6.5 L in a romp, shut down at the wire. What a 'Hoss' indeed! CB does remind me of his great dam sire, General Assembly - ICS 2010 and Travers '79 are similar, though the latter is greater by far.
rcschumann 1 month ago
Sennnnsational!! I think it's kinda kewl that Eddie Maple rode him...what with the Canadian Maple Leaf and all... :) I know he was one nervous jockey. ♥
kwgrid 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am tongan, and I like to eat horses.
airventschinatown 2 months ago
It's quite entertaining how he gets backed into a corner; all he seems to be able to do is throw out insults as if they have any impact. At the ned of the day, the anger, bigotry and insults actually define who he is as a person...an immature juvenile who can't handle himself in any other way. My apologies for insulting the immature juveniles of the world with that analogy.
bbmtge 2 months ago
The concept of this fool is to enter the video by complaining about the American celebration of Sec and to, then, simply trash everything American. He follows by doing the exact same thing that he complains about. He cannot answer to Simon Rowlands PERSONAL assessment of Sec by awarding him a TF of 153. It took multiple postings before he simply denied it's authenticity. When offered the link...no response.
bbmtge 2 months ago
LOL You are one seriously disturbed young man. By the way, I have heard schizophrenia can be treated - even in America. Bye.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - I guess my Christmas is ruined because I was juts insulted by Euro-trash!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 I watched many European horses race on those turfs tracks of theirs. Not one race I have seen those tracks nowhere the condition this one was raced on besides the strong winds and cold weather. Big Red ran it in 2:41 & change with ease without Turcotte aboard. It was amazing after running about a mile he left the field the way he did. Never seen a European horse do that & they run theirs in a much slower pace as well. Its a no brainer for the ones that have brains.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 & "BBMTGE" - Aside from his myriad of records, what is frightening is that SEC was getting BIGGER, STRONGER & BETTER and had he raced as a 4 year-old he would have added numerous more records to his trophy case, and might have even been sent to Europe to crush their "so-called" great horses. Charles Hatton and Kent Hollingsworth, two of the foremost horse racing authorities both saw Man o'War insisted SEC was the GREATEST HORSE EVER...PERIOD! Happy Holidays to both of you!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Happy Holidays to you, too and to rscarbro. Another bit of info on Sec. 3/14/73 in a workout at Belmont. Remember...this is 6 weeks prior to his 3rd birthday.
32 and 3/5h's for 3/8th's of a mile!!!
bbmtge 2 months ago
@bbmtge Merry Christmas my good man. Keep up the good work and a very Merry Christmas to all.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@bbmtge And he was yet 2 yrs. old at the time he ran that 3/8 workout in 1:32 3/5. Might add one of those quarters was in 21 1/5 seconds only 2/5 off the WR and the 32 3/5 was a world record at that time. He was braking world records before he turned 3. What other horse ever done that? Right, not one that I know of.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 Merry Christmas!!! By the way, I believe you have stated before that Sec still had some winter weight on him during that workout. I would also be willing to bet that he was none the worse for the wear after that workout and still had some reserve left in him. Absolutely like no other!!! He could, simply, do it all whether it was 3/8th's of a mile or 2 miles.
bbmtge 2 months ago
@bbmtge - I remember reading in Bill Nack's book that Lauren was dumbfounded after that 32-3/5 run. Imagine averaging 10.87 furlong fractions over 3/8 of a mile!!!! Amazingly, Hatton did say Lauren/Turcotte never got to more than 80/90% of Secretariat's full potential with most of his great record breaking runs via a simple hand ride through the stretch. Believe me, ALL of those Eurpoean enthusiasts KNOW SEC was "one of a kind" which is why they absolutely FEAR him in the worst way!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 The Euro-Trash that denigrate Sec use the same crap every time. "Time does not matter" is all they can come up with. Stop and think what would happen if a horse appeared on the horizon in Europe that simply obliterated the previous records and had them redefining greatness. I guess you cannot blame them completely as WE were lucky enough to experience this concept while all they get is more of the same.
bbmtge 2 months ago
@bbmtge Like I always said my goog friend, If Secretariat had been a European horse, his name and time fractions would be more hallowed than the queen of England and Winston Churchil. European enthusiasts just can't stand the thought of owning up to the fact that an American horse was the most supernatural thoroughbred of all-time!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago 12
@Dannykeith46 I don't think any horse or sportsman/woman will ever come close to Winston Churchill lol anyway im a Brit & Secretariat was an all time great no doubts about it.People will always have their opnion on who was the greatest horse off all time in fact Secretariat comes 2nd on The Blood-Horse magazine list and they are American only horses! Man o' War tops the list.Hardly any point moaning about Euro sceptics when he doesn't even top the American list of great horses rofl
MrConnolly25 1 month ago
@MrConnolly25 - FYI, SEC finished 2nd on the American list because one of the eight Bloodhorse voters was a Man o' War diehard and voted SEC 14th because he knew that would skew the overall results...FACT! You can say whatever you want, but the fact remains Secretariat did things on a racetrack NO HORSE will ever repeat. I strongly feel horses like Sea Bird II, Nijiinsky, Ribot, Sea the Stars, etc. were also amazing horses and worthy of top 10 consideration. Best Regards!
Dannykeith46 1 month ago
@Dannykeith46 Thats the whoe point though isn't it lol your a diehard Secretariat fan some people over here (UK) bang on about Shergar others Nijinsky,Sea the Stars etc etc.People will always argue who was the best ever,its pretty pointess really a great horse is a great horse period.
MrConnolly25 1 month ago
@bbmtge If Secretariat was sent to Europe as a 4 year old, the people there (including that Scotsman) would be hailing him as the greatest racehorse to ever set foot on a track. He was even more devastating on turf, and he would have eaten up all those hills and trenches they got over there. If Hill Rise could win the QEII Stakes in '66 and be named Champion UK Miler for that year, imagine what Sec at 4 would have done in a race like the Eclipse, KG VI, QEII or Arc. Utter destruction.
rcschumann 2 months ago
@rcschumann - FINALLY...someone telling it like it is! Trust me...those European enthusiasts are "kissing the ground" beacuse Secretariat retired at 3. They KNOW he would have raced overseas at 4 and absolutely CRUSHED their horses. NO horse would have been able to keep pace with Secretariat at 4...even if he carriied 140 lbs!
Dannykeith46 1 month ago
@rcschumann Could not agree more. Well put!!!
bbmtge 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bbmtge We have another dipshit on the "Secretariat Perhaps The Greatest Horse Ever" yutube video stating Beyer insisted SEC used steroids. He says he is a Harvard graduate and went to school with Beyer but he is absolutely full of crap! Lots of fun with this loser!
Dannykeith46 1 month ago
@bbmtge & rscarbro - You both should visit the webside: "The 10 Greatest Race Horses of All Time". Very Interesting comments!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Thanks my good man but you are mistaken about Kent Hollingsworth, He was born in 1930 and died in 1999 at the age of 69 yrs. You probably mean Hollie Hudges. The list I have that has seen both were Hatton, Hudges , Rose Hamburger, George Cassidy, Mike Casale, Gene Schwartz, Shorty Archer And did know a few more that has seen both all said Secretariat the better. Kent did say Secretariat seperated himself from all the other greats with his win in the Belmont.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 - I did mean Hollie Hughes - thank you for pointing out the oversight. FYI, Kent Hollingsworth did say there will NEVER be another horse like Secretariat. Best wishes to you my friend!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 None of the Man 0' War or Citation lovers can name me 'ONE' person that has seen both that said Man 0' War was the better. They said there was but no names. Ai'nt that a good one. Ed Bowen did not see MOW but said Secretariat was the best he ever seen and he did see Citation.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
I will qualify that by saying that sometimes a trainer doesn't know if his colt will stay a certain distance beforehand, and will often run them in lesser events to see if it does or not. A horse not being able to stay is not a reflection on the trainer's ability - yet, a top trainer, with ambitions of winning any big race, will usually make sure he has a horse fit for the job in hand - like Dermot Weld, for instance. He wouldn't have bothered entering Go And Go in The Belmont Stakes otherwise.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Seriously I truly can say you do not qualify to say much of anything from what I have been reading in your post. Like I said in a earlier post Sea Bird & Ribot only could manage to run those turf tracks for a 1 1/2 mile in about 2:34 & change or worse. Seattle Slew won his Belomt on a heavy track in 2:29 & change. Tell us those European tracks were even slower than a muddy heavy deep track.1:34 flat mile workout for Secretariat in 'MUD'. How about that?
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 You still fail to understand - or choose not to. Either way, any further discussion with you is pointless.You do not wish to be educated. You are blinded by all things American. Slop, even on one of America's top tracks is so very different from soft and heavy surfaces on European turf tracks. Steve Haskins acknowledges this fact and highlights it as one of the major differences between US and European.NO horse can run 2.29 on any European track when the surface is soft or heavy.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Secretariat ran a spectacular 2:26-3/5 in a 1-1/2 mile race in the rain soaked mud, and I can PROMISE YOU that a drenched muddy surface is just as bad, if not worse, than wet turf. Furthermore, SEC was training on TURF for 2 weeks and was ridiculously thrown into this race at the "11th hour". You are correct in saying that wet turf is very difficult to run a world-class time on, but any severe muddy track is equally as bad. Now let's see what half-assed response you have?
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 - You can't win with this loser. The more sense you make, the more ignorant his responses get so why waste your time? Bottom line is he and his fellow UK/Euro-trash are SO INTIMIDATED by Secretariat's performances, they will stop at nothing to dismiss his superiority. They cannot possibly be a stupid as their worthless comments that provide ZERO fact or substance so I must believe their dismissal of every supernatural SEC occurrence is due to their sheer jealousy!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 I know that my good man. He is a lover of himself and his country and cannot see past his jealous and 'Bias' temperment. His lose his cool when we educate him. When you talk about time they know they lose everytime and to counter that attack its always 'Times' means nothing besides their turf track are some 30 to 50 lengths slower. Taking about insane, he takes the cake and gobbles it too.I am beginning to feel sorry for this guy. He really needs help.(smile)
rscarbro100 2 months ago
A mile and half is not considered a staying race in Britain, Ireland or France. It is classed as a middle distance event, where speed allied to stamina is required. But, when the ground conditions vary tremendously, it can have great bearing on the outcome of any race, just as it can in America, where a horse that is suited to fast going can be inconvenienced by slop. To say that a trainer has no bearing on a horse's track performance is naive - and suggests that you still have much to learn.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Oh, ironically enough ( mindful of the subject matter of this thread ), Dermot Weld also won the Secretariat Stakes with a horse called Winchester.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Charles Whittingham was a great trainer that trained Sunday Silence and many great horses. With all his ability his horse could not handle Easy Goer in the Belmont.. S.S. just wasn't the stayer like the Big Easy. Its simple as that. You gotta have the horse and without that no amount of training will help.He trained CougarII but he was not a stayer as well.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
bbmtge, I would be utterly shocked and amazed if your dear old dad wasn't wiser than you. In fact, you are to wisdom what George W. Bush was to world peace and as dan Quayle is to spelling. Astonishing that Dermot Weld, primarily renouned as a jumps trainer ( ie he trains racehorses which leap over fences plus a few on the flat ) can show up in America with an average horse and win one of your most prestigious races by 8 lengths - The Belmont Stakes. He beat Unbridled, the 6/5 favourite.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
1) This idiot, CelticAnal, came to this video disparaging Sec, and U.S. horseracing in general.
2) He then says that the differences in tracks and racing make it so you cannot compars U.S. and European racing thus comepletely invalidating his previous comments
3) Then, he returns to the remarks about trashing U.S. racing and vaunting European racing
4) Funny how it's European...NOT SCOTTISH, racing!!!
5) When confronted with the inof as to Mr. rowlands TF for Sec, he lies, it doesn't exist.
bbmtge 2 months ago
DannyKeith, I would be utterly shocked and amazed if your dear old dad wasn't wiser than you. In fact, you are to wisdom what George W. Bush was to world peace and as dan Quayle is to spelling. Astonishing that Dermot Weld, primarily renouned as a jumps trainer ( ie he trains racehorses which leap over fences plus a few on the flat ) can show up in America with an average horse and win one of your most prestigious races by 8 lengths - The Belmont Stakes. He beat Unbridled, the 6/5 favourite.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt He trained Go and Go for 2 yrs. and managed to win only 6 races out of 15. He should have went back to traing jumping horses for sure. He was lucky to have a horse like Go and Go who had great stamina for a 1 1/2 mile race with that great strecth drive in the Belmont. I believe it was mostly the horse not the trainer the reason he won the Belmont. He was much less impressive racing under 1 1/2 mile distance. What do you believe little 'Wise Man'?
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 Little, no ! Wise, yes ! Dermot Weld, master trainer. Ask the Aussies. He has also gone to Melbourne with two good horses ( not great ) , and won their main event ( The Melbourne Cup ) twice. Weld is particularly adept at training stayers. He knew that the better American dirt horses are not really bred to stay further than 10 f - and knew Go and Go would be perfect for the Belmont. None of your best 10-12f middle distance horses would beat ours on European turf. Just won't happen.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Your probably right. Now days our horses are bred for shorter distance and all the Arabs bought up all our good stayers that came for horses like Secretariat, Easy Goer, Point Given to name a few. You admit I'm correct it was the horse not the trainer the reason Go and Go won the Belmont because he was a stayer. If most of our trainers trained Go and Go he would haved won as well. You are Wise"? I am falling in the floor with laughter. Spare me the pain.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 ...and I nearly fell off my high horse when you said I was right. No, I do not agree that it is the horse alone. Without the assistance of an able trainer, a good horse can become a very average horse very quickly.Weld's is held in the highest regard among his peers.Go and Go may have won with another GOOD trainer minding him, but its usually the case that less talented or able trainers can inhibit a horse's potential. There is a saying here that bad trainers couldnt train a donkey
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt If he was such a good trainer why did Go And Go win only 6 of 15 races? He got Go And Go in real good shape and Go And Go did the rest. It doesn't take a great trainer to do that. His overall record was poor to say the least. He was lucky Go And Go was a stayer or his ass would have been 'MUD' in the Belmont. I guess Go And Go was a 'Donkey' when it came to short distance races and Mr. Weld with all his materful training ability could not do swat about it.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 Again, and I really have to emphasise this - European trainers, be they Irish ( like Weld ), British, French etc all use different methods. Weld ( he's also an animal vet ) is trainer who likes to aim his horses at specific targets and will train his horses accordingly. That being the case, he will forego winning one or two races with a particular horse in order to have him ( or her ) spot on for the main event. I'm quite sure that some US trainers do the same thing.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
As recently as 1990, Irish trained horse, Go and Go, travelled to the US with his trainer Dermot Weld, to contest the third leg of the American Triple Crown, The Belmont Stakes. He won ! He wasn't, and still isn't, considered to be a great horse in my part of the world.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
As recently as 1990, Irish trained horse, Go and Go, travelled to the US with his trainer Dermot Weld, to contest the third leg of the American Triple Crown, The Belmont Stakes. He won ! He wasn't, and still isn't, considered to be a great horse in my part of the world.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Comment removed
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
What I will say is that racing on American dirt surfaces and European turf is like night and day so it is impossible to gauge the merits of different champions. Even American, Canadian and Australian turf surfaces are very different from those in France, GB and Ireland. In fact, Paul Mellon, an American who bred and owned the great Mill Reef, decided against racing him at all in the USA and instead sent him to be trained in England, because he thought the colt wouldn't handle dirt.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Kingston Rule the son of Secretariat won the 1990 Melbourne Cup in a record time of 3:16:3. This time still stands as the record today. Phar Lap fastest time at that track was about 3:32 & change. I tell you the difference and its not the tracks. Its the damm horse good buddy. You cant tell anyone that them truf tracks over in Europe or Australia are some 25 lengths or more slower than the American dirt tracks. Try another excuse.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 - My father (God rest his saintly soul) was a VERY WISE man and once told me you will come across people that will point to a granny smith apple and insist it is "red delicious" to satisfy some warped or twisted reasoning of theirs. The best answer you can possibly give is to say...yeah...OK...whatever??? I now fully understand that the type of ignorant fools my dad was referring to were "legends in their own minds" such as "The fighthingCelt" and "MrItaliano"..sad to say!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
The horse who finished third behind Sea-Bird in the 1965 Arc, was another French colt named Diatome, who following his defeat to Sea-Bird, travelled to America to compete in the Washington International. Among the horses he faced was US 4 year old Roman Brother, named American overall horse of the year (1965 ). Diatome won the race, defeating not only Roman Brother, but also a number of other very good American horses,thus franking the form of Sea-Bird. Timeform still agree that SB was the best.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Sea-Bird's Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe ( Europe's best and most prestigious middle distance race over a mile and a half ) victory is still considered among European and racing experts as the best ever and the performance which still sets the standard by which all other winners of that race are judged. It contained the best ever field assembled for that race, among them 4 Derby winners from other countries and Tom Rolfe, the Preakness winner and US 3 year old horse of 1965. Sea-Bird won with ease.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Sea-Bird attained his rating of 145 - when it should have been 149 - because Timeform chose to disregard the official winning distance of his 1965 Arc win and instead downgraded his winning margin over the then unbeaten French Derby winner, Reliance to 4 and a half lengths instead of the Longchamps judge's official six. He won all his 3 year old races without coming off the bit. He had the most majestic stride ever seen in a racehorse. He glided over the ground.He won five Group races in 1965.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Until narrow minded Yankee Doodles can grasp the significant differences between European and American horse racing - AS YOUR OWN RESPECTED RACING JOURNALIST, STEVE HASKINS HAS DONE - then, and only THEN, will you begin to understand that race times and fractions hold much more sway on your side of the Atlantic than they do on ours. Haskins compared many aspects of US and European racing - and concluded that in NEARLY ALL ASPECTS ( BUT NOT ALL ), EUROPEAN RACING CAME OUT BEST Learn from him
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Note how I'm so biased towards British trained horses that I have ONLY included one that was trained there - Mill Reef - and yet I have included three that were trained in the USA, So much for my prejudiced views, eh !
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
My top ten middle distance horse in the last 100 years - world ( that means NOT JUST AMERICA )
1) Sea Bird (FR) 2) Ribot (ITA), 3) Phar Lap (AUS) , 4) Man O' War US), 5) Sea The Stars (IRE), 6) Mill Reef ( GB ), 7) Nijinsky ( IRE) 9 ) Citation (US ) , 9) Carbine ( NZ ), 10) Secretariat ( US )
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Comment removed
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - And you are the PERFECT example of"Euro-Trash"...someone that will knock ANYTHING relating to the USA. What is amazing is that we saved your sorry ass from Hitler, and we STILL field insults from UK/European trash such as yourself. Secretarat supporters use hard core FACTS to support their case while Euro-trash use emotional comments with NO STATISTICAL BACKING, WHATSOEVER! You will NEVER respond to SEC's supernatural feats beacuse there really is NO SENSIBLE RESPONE!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 He just doesnt want to learn. He really knows nothing about American tracks and hoe their composition, bias and weather have produced wide ranges of fractions. Again, the emphasis is on hatred and bigotry versus facts. He quotes one sentence form timemeasure yet the article clearly states that horses are expected to run a stanbdard time that varies depending on the track. We have the same issues here in the difference, in a general sense, between east and west coast tracks...
bbmtge 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 The issue comes down to a horse who comes along and isdoing things that have never been seen prior. This is exactly what Sec did and why fractions in every system are important. It's just taking into account the variables and the standard of what has been seen in terms of racing time. He can make all of the comments he wants but, Sec set a standard that no other TB in history has even approached...with ease. This is why he wont comment on Mr. Rowlands assessing Sec at TF 153!!!
bbmtge 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Timeform's highest ever flat rating was Sea Bird at 145. Simon Rowlands, head of research and handicapping at TIMEFORM, the company and system celebrated by CeltAnal did his own research a awarded Sec "an astonishing 153"...he further comments that Century of Champions gave Sec ONLY 144. This is a clear indication that Mr. Rowlands believes there is a problem with that rating. In the end, Big Red enjoys the highest BSF AND the highest Timeform (when calculated without prejudice).
bbmtge 2 months ago
@bbmtge Bbmtge/Danny Keith. One and the same person. I'm sure the other viewers are well aware of this fact already. He posts to himself in order to convince himself and others. Simon Rowlands did no such thing. Tony Morris and John Randall are among the most eminent racing authorities in the world. Morris ( in his 60s ) is considered the pre-eminent expert in his field. He approaches everything from an unbiased viewpoint and only bases his findings on form lines and factual information.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Once again you are kidding...right??? Tony Morris and John Randall are the MOST BIASED Europoean horse analysts IN THE WORLD and Simon Rowlans DID award SEC a 153 TF rating! For years, Euro-trash analysts have been pulling out ALL possible measures to downgarde SEC beacuse deep down they KNOW just how incredible he was. Botom line is I do sincerely respect your passion for your horses, it is an admirable quality, but your zeal blinds you to the truth.
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Think of it this way, Sea Bird II's 144 TF is based on 7 wins...think about that...ONLY 7 wins! Let's separate east and west for a second and think about what SEC did in relation to North American racing. He eclipsed various records in 8 of his 9 wins including ALL triple crown races and "galluped" to TWO world records (GALLUPED!!!) Therefore, SEC's acomplishments in "his" racing world FAR OUTWEIGH ANY HORSE EVER in "their" racing world. It really is that simple!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - con't: Bottom line is NO HORSE EVER dominated the sport more than Secretariat. You and your fellow Euro "so-called" experts can dismiss times/fractions all you want but over a myriad of races, they are still the best way of separateing the "men from the boys"! If Secretariat was a European horse, you would be singing his praises every minute of every day!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Now you finish yourself off as a complete LIAR...LOL. Funny how folks who cant hold up to scrutiny find themselves having to LIE. Mr. Rowlands did just that. Would you like the link where he states this and using the adjective ASTONISHING? I'msure that even after reading it, you will deny it. Anyone who actually studies the BSF and Timeform would know that 144 is not realistic and convenently behind Sea Bird who did nothing in his career that approaches Sec 3 YO season.
bbmtge 2 months ago
Middle distances in horse racing generally means any race run between 10 furlongs to 12 furlongs
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - In case you didn't know (which like everything else you don't!), Citation's iconic jockey Eddie Arcaro said SEC was BETTER than Citation and the greatest horse he ever saw. 2) Two of America's greatest racing analysts ever, Charles Hatton and Hollinsworth both saw Man o' War and SEC and easily agreed that SEC was, by far, the better horse and the greatest thoroughbred in race horsing history. So much for your pathetic list but I guess you know more than Citation's jockey!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
Note how I'm so biased towards British trained horses that I have ONLY included one that was trained there - Mill Reef - and yet I have included three that were trained in the USA, So much for my prejudiced views, eh !
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - An oversight on your part: You almost forgot to place good ole Winston Churchill along with Queen Elizabeth on your list since they obviously would have been able to "walk" to the finish line since time doesn't matter and maybe win some of those races with their competition being turtles! FYI, you have totally earned this sarcasm via your "off the charts" comments and top 10 comedy act list. Go back to sleep and revisit the coma you have been living in most of your life!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
My top ten middle distance horse in the last 100 years - world ( that means NOT JUST AMERICA )
1) Sea Bird (FR) 2) Ribot (ITA), 3) Phar Lap (AUS) , 4) Man O' War US), 5) Sea The Stars (IRE), 6) Mill Reef ( GB ), 7) Nijinsky ( IRE) 9 ) Citation (US ) , 9) Carbine ( NZ ), 10) Secretariat ( US )
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Thank you - your top 10 list just confirmed your insanity. Any list with Secretariat #10 is absolutely biased as well as ludicrous. You know NOTHING about premier race horses and you CONTINUE to not respond to FACTS. Why not take SEcretariat off the list completely and place Queen Elizabeth as #1??? Any serious thoroughbred racing enthusiast would laugh at this UKbigoted listed. P.S. - Onthe U.S. front, SEC would have CRUSHED Man o' War!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
Until you narrow minded Yankee Doodles can grasp the significany differences between Eoropean and American horse racing - AS YOUR OWN RESPECTED RACING JOURNALIST, STEVE HASKINS HAS DONE - then, and only THEN, will you begin to understand that race times and fractions hold much more sway on your side of the Atlantic than they do on ours. Haskins compared many aspects of US and European racing - and concluded that in NEARLY ALL ASPECTS ( BUT NOT ALL ), EUROPEAN RACING CAME OUT BEST Learn from him
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Again, Haskins is a SOLE opinion. I will compose a list for your of some of the premier race horse analysts that place SEC #1. You UK freaks hold onto outlandish opinions like mother hens tending to their offspring. Pathetic...and you still haven't responded to SEC increasing his speed from start to finishover 1-1/4 miles. Why? I'll tell you why....YOU CAN'T. If Sea Bird II or any of your other poor excuses for thororoughbreds ever accomplished that it would be world news!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Go to Haskins' blog and see if his is the sole voice of America. You will find, once again, that you are very wrong. You are the troll, not me.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Timeform - opening paragraphs - " The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
Try again - not my words - those of Timeform.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Believe it or not, he is actually starting to bend, though he doesn't realize it. LOL!!! Great stuff!!!
bbmtge 2 months ago
As always, desperate attempts to make excuses for horses who simply are unable to run a given time over a given distance. To state that a factor involved in winning a race and judging performance means practically nothing is merely a defense mechanism. It's away to justify a predetermined outcome, a way to justify a system that supposedly measures performance by omitting a very important factor. Thus, there is no point in even measuring fractional or final time. See where this is going?
bbmtge 2 months ago
@bbmtge - To state that racing times are irrelevant borders on insanity. Of course there are mitigating factors such as track condtions, weather, jockey error and the pace of a race...perfectly understood. But when a horse sets 6 OFFICIAL world or track records out of 12 races in a calendar year as well as TWO unofficial World Records via 1/8 of a mile post-finish line "gallups", the times specically point to a supernatural occurrence that comes along ONCE IN A LIFETIME!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 My good man...keep him "chatting" and keep up the great research. He's digging a hole for himself...deeper and deeper. It goes to show you that hatred and utter bigotry will blind a fool every time. He has even crossed himself up with respect to timeform and time measure. THEY even indicate Sec greatness to another level. But, like I said, please keep him chatting.
bbmtge 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Timeform - opening paragraphs - " The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
" The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance CONVEYS, of itself, PRATICALLY NOTHING. It has to be CONSIDERED IN RELATION to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Here's a scenario: What if a racehorse - in 3rd place, 2 horses in front of him - stopped just before the wire & performed an astonshingly Moving, Graceful Interpretive Dance? A Dance heretofore, never seen performed by a racehorse (while he's completing a horse race?) Would this cause the winner to be 're-evaluated'? I.E., would the ethereal beauty & uniqueness of said Interpretive Dance (by an Equine) cause the dancing racehorse to be declared the 2nd or 1st place winner?
nin12dog 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - FYI, I've just posted on several extremely European biased horse ranking forums and the consensus by a myriad of European and Australian enthusiasts is that you cannot compare Frankel to great horses who ran over 1 mile distances. Even UK and Australian experts agree that 1 mile superiority just doesn't "cut it" if you want to match up to the all-time greats. I find it interesting that many other Europeans agree on that issue. You CANNOT compare Frankel to Secretariat!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Have you ever heard the expression, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink ( or think, in your case ). One day the penny ( or cent ) will drop ! Of course, you cannot compare Frankel with Secrtariat - as both raced over different disatnces, on different continents, on different courses, and on different surfaces - which is exactly the point I've been trying hard to hammer into your small brain all along. Once you grasp those differences, then you might get it.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Which is my very point exactly - hence why it is just as odious to compare horses who compete in different continents and on different surfaces as it is to compare champion racehorses who whose victories have been gained at a certain distance. As for our biased forums. That made me laugh. There are no more biased horse racing forums than those which operate in the good old U S of A. Visit TheRacingForum UK ( the best out there ) and learn a thing or two... or three !
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Last but not least...NO horse has ever been recorded as speeding up from the gate to the wire in a 1-1/8 mile+ race in the history of the sport. Yet, on May 5, 1973, Secretariat defied the laws of physics when he ran each quarter of a 1-1/4 mile race (Kentucky Derby) FASTER than the prior quarter. In other words, he sped up from start to finish, with his last 1/4 fraction in an unftahomable 23 seconds! If you consider that irrelevant you are truely ignorant.
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
If you think you are attempting to make any reasonable points, you need to start by reviewing each of your posts and apologizing, one by one, for your bigoted remarks.
bbmtge 2 months ago
Interesting how the BSF uses variants to adjust the rating based on track conditions including variants, under the same weather conditions, of previous races. Thus a final time that is, for example, 2 seconds off of another trme under ideal conditions may, in fact, yield a higher score. As staed, now, again. Sec earned thew highest BSF and according to the HEAD of Research and Handicapping of Timeform, Sec earned a TF of 153. You may continue to try, but you always come up short.
bbmtge 2 months ago
" The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
- Timeform 2012
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - OK Genius...let's try this. NO horse EVER in 140 years, 420+ races and nearly 4,000 horses has matched Seretariat's speed in the 3 TC races. Forget that these were North American horses. Doesn't it say something that ONE horse owns ALL 3 records when that ONE horse can only run EACH race once? Forget dirt vs. turf, it is irrelevant. The FACT is if THOUSANDS of North American horses fall short over nearly a century and a half...it is most likely ANY horse would have!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Regarding Turf, Secretariat's FIRST turf race resulted in a remarkable 2:24-4/5 time for 1-1/2 miles when he CRUSHED the finest North American turf runner 4-year old Tim Tam. So much for the turf issue. FYI, this record setting performance was only 9 days after he ran 1-1/2 miles on DIRT. Who does that? Your horses take months off between 1 mile races. On turf or dirt, Secretariat would have blasted Frankel. SEC has the times to prove it..you have speculative Bulls#%$!!!!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt I'm reluctant to respond to you, as (1) It's not my intent to seem intrusive; (2) I suspect you're a troll. However, IF racetimes 'convey nothing', why would any race (Human, Equine, Canine) be........timed? Are you suggesting Racing is a somewhat 'existential experience' and the 'winner' of a race is.....'subject to interpretation'? LM.#.A.O!!!! I'm sorry, I just can't help myself.....this is surreal, Mr. Celt.
nin12dog 2 months ago
The reality is that the onus is on a person making a claim to be able to support that claim, or any other, through a methodology. Otherwise we are left with nothing but CLAIMS. Phrases such as "I refuse to accept..." fall in that category. Smear, bigotry, insults fall in that category. CLAIMS of "you dont understand" fall in that category. When an individual provides nothing more than CLAIMS interspersed with said smear and bigotry they actually DEFINE themself as nothing more than illogical.
bbmtge 2 months ago
You mention Timeform. Here is a paragraph from Timeform's website where they talk about how they consider times in context to other factors. The actual time recorded by a horse over a given distance conveys, of itself, practically nothing. It has to be considered in relation to the conformation of the course over which it was recorded and the weather and track surface conditions prevailing at the time."
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
I reiterate - once you begin to grasp the significant differences and nuances between US dirt racing and European turf racing, then - and only THEN, will you start to understand. One ? will suffice thank you, as will one exclamation mark. My eyes are sore trying read your mess.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
As stated, Mr. Rowlands, head of research and handicapping at TimeForm did his own research and stated that Sec earned a TF of 153,,,the highest ever. Remember the basic difference between the BSF and TF. The TF favors level of competition meaning that a horse could run a slow time but defeat inferior competition by a said distance and therefore earn a high rating. The BSF is time over surface run, a much more accurate process to compare horses form different eras. Sec score the highest in BOTH.
bbmtge 2 months ago
You have to love the line of reasoning that continually states that fractions are not important, now LESS important. Thus, the argument that the overall time, along with the fractions, are of less significance. This, even in a one mile race on turf that is a straight race, no turns. Now, these same horses, who are running 5 and 6 seconds off of American times, MAGICALLY, can beat any American horses that they choose. The thought process remains in the realm of "it is because I say so".
bbmtge 2 months ago
I still maintain that over mile, only one horse would have given Frankel a race ... ON TURF. That horse was the mighty Brigadier Gerard. Dr Fager was a very good horse - he too would have beaten Secretariat ata mile - on dirt or turf, and whether you think me biased or not, I cannot accept that Dr. Fager was a superior animal to those two British heavyweight champions - and to use your parlance ... enough already about those fractions for gawdsakes !
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Those people, apart from Frankie Dettori, did indeed see Secretariat run. You can use as many exclamation marks ( grammatically wrong, but there you go - that's Americans for you ) as you like, but you still fail to grasp, or accept, as your fellow American, Steve Haskins has done, that race fractions are of much less importance in European racing - hence why race they are still not officially recorded - because they are generally misleading. Come back when you too accept that fact.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
Sir Henry Cecil ( revered multiple group 1 and classic English trainer ) : " Frankel is the best horse I have ever seen " - Frankie Dettori - " No horse I have ridden, raced against or seen, would have beaten Frankel - he is the best ever ! " Willie Carson ( retired jockey of Dayjur, Troy, etc ) : " Frankel is THE BEST horse in the history of horse racing ! " Jim McGrath ( Australian race commentator and analyst - " I have never and will never see another as good as Frankel ! "
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Do you want me to start quoting the "hundred's" of thoroughbred experts who called Secretariat the greatest horse ever including Charles Hatton (who also saw Man o' War), Eddie Acarco (who RODE Citation & Kelso), etc.... Those people NEVER saw Secretariat run and would NEVER rate an American horse #1 anyway. ANSWER THE QUESTION PLEASE...how can you rate a horse who NEVER ran more than 1 mile greater than SEC??? SEC would have CRUSHED Frankel in a 1 mile race on turf!!!!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Forget Secretariat....horses such as Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, and Dr. Fager (maybe the premier 1 miler in horse racing history) would have also BLASTED Frankel over a 1 mile distance on YOUR turf! YOU CANNOT dismiss times beacuse the best time wins the race. These horses I have mentioned all posted world class times SEVERAL TIMES for 1 mile distances...please...you and your "experts" are embarassing yourselves stating Frankel is better than Secretariat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
You still can't see the wood for the trees, can you. I urge you to read Haskins' blog. The whole European v American horse racing comparisons and differences will become very much clearer - hopefully. He spells out why times on American racetracks will always be faster, given the nature of your surfaces and the ease and tight turns of your tracks - but he states that this doesn't indicate that America has the better racehorses. Best Horses? Haskins " This of course, is difficult to say ! "
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Don't foret MANY of Secretariat's great times were posted running 2 to 3 horses wide the WHOLE race! Other than the Belmont wher he ran inside the whole race, Secretariat typically was more comfortable running extremely wide so there goes your theory about "the ease" of Ametrican race tracks since, if that statement is true, SEC typically gave up his adavantage by losing serious ground/lengths on each turn. I am patiently waiting for a response to Beyer's recent 139 rating?
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
Steve Haskins' blog from BloodHorse. He compares all aspects of horse racing in Europe to that in America. He visited many racecourses ( racetracks to you ) in the UK and Ireland, as well as Longchamps and Chantilly in France. Haskins is an American racing journalist of many decades' experience and a fervent follower of US horse racing. He has visited countless tracks across the USA. His conclusions, vis-a- vis Europe v US racing you WILL disagree with, but they are totally without prejudice.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
LOL I'm playing you all like a fiddle here. Frankel, currently rated the best horse in the world right now. But Hey you guys ( you like being called guys don't you ? - even your gals like being called guys lol ), don't let that FACT hinder your thoughts. Why don't you read your own Steve Haskins' very well written blog - a respected US journalist, who visited many European racecourses during 2009 order to compare our racing with that his beloved U.S horse racing. Very interesting reading. ; )
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
You have finally lost the plot, bbmtge. Seek counselling asap - isn't that the normal course of action for disturbed Americans ? lol Frankel is a better racehorse than Secretariat ever was, let alone Sea-Bird, Ribot, Brigadier Gerard, Nijinsky, Mill Reef, Phar Lap, Citation or Man 'O War. : )
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt This race was run in a
downpour, and with the turf being knee deep after a week of rain, and
all that against a 25 miles an hour wind. It was so bad that you could
hardly see the back stretch. Source Ron Turcotte. The mile was ran in 1:37 3/5 about the fastest time Frankel ever ran a mile from the chute on a dry fast turf. I watched Frankel St. James race. I thought it was a 1 1/16 mile race because it seemed so long to get to the finish line.Cont.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt I was in total shock once I learned it was only a mile race and he ran it in 1:39.24. I said to myself this cannot be. Gotta be a mistake. So I checked twice and it is correct. Then you say Frankel was better than Secretariat whom ran a mile in 'MUD' in 1:34 flat in a workout. Now I will have to double check to see if you are register in a insane asylum or has taken to many drugs in all due respect of course..BTW, do you wear one of those high top hats?Hehehe
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt No doubt you are a young teenager but let me get you on to a little secret. Frankel just has not got the speed to even run against our G-3 horses let alone running against any of our G-1 stake horses. Frankel just has not got the speed little buddy and he his whipped so bad just to get a 1:39.24 time in the St, James Palace race. But if it makes you feel good to think he is better than Secretariat I will let you dream on & give you a pass.(smile)
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@rscarbro100 Great stuff, my friend. As you will see with this child, he is simply another malcontent running his mouth about some very slow European horses. And I mean...VERY SLOW.
bbmtge 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt All mouth and no substance. You cant deal with facts so you simply continue on a line of "It is because I say so". A textbook flaw that is used by fools who cannot logically make or support a claim. Congratulations!!! In that area, you have been consistent throughout your posts. The bigotry, playing victim, etc...you wear it well.
bbmtge 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt - Frankel??? You are joking right? He has NEVER ran more than 1 mile and you are staing he is better than Secretariat....can you share some of those drugs you are taking??? FYI, I just posted that Andrew Beyer...the foremost horse racing speed analyst just revised SEC's speed raring based on 2011 methodologies with SEC recieving an incredible 139 rating or 4 points higher tha Frankel's 135??? When Frankel runs superior races at 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 miles we will talk!
Dannykeith46 2 months ago
Ok, ok ... let's play devil's advocate just one more time here. If time is so important in horse races, and you use it as an unequivocal yardstick, would you therfore place the current mile and half dirt record holder, a humble handicapper called Hawkster, who ran 2min 22 4/5 Santa Anita, Oct 14th, 1989, above the "great" Secretariat. By your twisted logic and skewed reasoning you would. I wouldn't ! Over to you, bud.
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Ah...again the chose ignorance in the desperate hope of supporting a predetermined and prejudiced view. You are makng this too easy with your stupidity. Hawkster ran his race on turf, not dirt. Hawkster carried 121 pounds. Hawksetr ran his race at Santa Anita. That track is partially downhill AND the CA circuit, turf and dirt, have regularly produced times in excess of a full second faster thatn the East Coast tracks. I was under the impression that you were such an authority!!!
bbmtge 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Please keep posting. The more you write, the more you show your anger and stupidity. The prejudice and bigotry are only outdone by your compelte lack of a brain. Very funny stuff.
bbmtge 2 months ago
Sea Bird ran 5 times as a 3YO. All turf races. No spectacular time in any race. 1 1/2 miles on turf at ~2:39 and 2:38. Oh, but I forgot, in Europe a RACE...again, RACE is not about time. To beat another horse, your final TIME has to be better...whether the horse is front-runner or a fast closer...whether the pace is fast or slow. As stated, when a horse can't run the TIME, the haters always say that TIME means nothing.
bbmtge 2 months ago
@bbmtge Again, you show what an idiot you are and comments like this only re-inforce your ignoramus status. Stick to chewing gum, saying "awesome, have a nice day and yee haaaa - and whistling dixie. Sea-Bird, who was never out of hack canter in nearly all of his races, would have picked the steroid freak (Secretariat) up and spat him out for breakfast. Sea-Bird won on ground which varied from good ( Epsom Derby ) to soft ( Arc de Triomphe ). You need to up your game yankee boy - big TIME !
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
No sonny boy, it only highlights your insularity, your prejudice, and above all, your total ignorance about European horse racing. Ask any of the top European trainers: O'Brien, Cecil, Stoute, Hannon, Fabre et al how much emphasis or importance they attach to fractions or time. Time is useful guide only when used in conjuction with other determining factors, such as going, wind, tactics, pace, track difficulty etc. The majority of turf races in Europe are tactical affairs - NOT time trials !
ThefightingCelt 2 months ago
@ThefightingCelt Funny how you came to this video and did nothingt but trash-talk. Now, as predicted, you vainly attempt to call the kettle black. The basic foundation of any racehorse has to do with being able to run a certain distance(s) in a certain time. A horse who can run 10 furlongs in 2:20 at best could never win the KD but might run in G3 or allowance races. Your claim that fracitons don't mean anything is just that...a CLAIM..it suits your argument as cover for slower horses.
bbmtge 2 months ago