Can't even imagine , how come in USA today, these kind of question can be raised ? the answer is beyond obvious, race can't be a label, can't be a reason for that situation. these kind of sentiment have to be largely unaccepted , that's one of the goals this open class for, which I believe.
@TunioMir Usually that thing is used for foreign people that don't know the language and it gets translated by someone else. They're basically headphones.
@rgktexas7 if i was born blind, i can bring a fresh perspective to the educational environment of harvard. if i was born without hair, i can bring an interesting perspective to the educational environment of harvard. if i was born without a nose, i can bring a strange perspective to the educational environment. if i was born with a dark pigment in my skin, i can bring a different perspective to the educational invironment of harvard.
White Harvard student picking her nose @ 15:00. Another reason to argue for AA. Clearly, booger picking aptitude should also be a consideration in admissions.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
The goals of giving students a "formal education" and the benefits of the socialization with students of different backgrounds and cultures are not mutually exclusive, nor should they be. Our society does NOT need more university graduates with narrow world views and elitist attitudes.
It's of course Harvard that has to define what it wants to accomplish.
If education is the main purpose of Harvard, then diversity shouldn't matter.
If diversity is the main purpose of Harvard, then education shouldn't matter at all and they should start accepting people not based on knowledge but on a criteria such as ethnicity.
For the country as whole, it would be better if the absolute top students, no matter race religion, ethnicity or gender were the ones that were admitted.
@Lockheim The argument is, rather, that people who are exposed to diversity are better off for it. Is a racist who has never left his small town and never encountered anybody of a differing opinion, but is otherwise exceptionally smart- would you say he is a fully educated person? And, what is education? I would think knowledge accumulation both in breadth and depth would be essential. Diversity is, then, inherent in a complete education.
@AlexMoensChannel Maybe, but there are those who would say otherwise. Instead of trying to decide who is right and who is wrong in cases like this I would leave it to individual agreements. Let people who agree it helps apply at schools with affirmative action enrollments.
Another question, if diversity is so important then why disallow diverse opinions by saying this is the only way schools can work?
@davekeays Many private institutions already practice this. Case in point: same sex schools. For public institutions, however, I would argue that the government's role is to insure as close to equal opportunity as possible. So, in defense of affirmative action, people who experienced certain hardships (socioeconomic, racial or otherwise) should have that be considered, all else equal. Other things (football, violin, etc) ARE left up to the institutions & provides the diversity you mention.
@AlexMoensChannel You are right, regulations for public institutions should be very different than private institutions- I would say base the decisions on the wants of the tax payers. While these kinds of programs are called "equal opportunity", I personally know that a similar program (ADA) hurts more than helps and that if you had a disability it became more difficult to find a job.
@davekeays I mostly agree, except in some instances basing all decisions on the wants of the tax payers. In most circumstances this should be the case, but we also have to look out for tyranny of the majority. There are certain "inalienable rights" that shouldn't be taken away, or possibly even unfairly enhanced for others. Also, the ADA covers more than job acquisition- it's what gives wheelchair access & handicapped parking, so it has pros and cons for sure. How would we be better w/o it?
@AlexMoensChannel The system we have considers the majority needs/wants as long as it doesn't step on indiv rights.
The Calif Counsel of the Blind was against the audible crosswalks cities were putting in to be ADA compliant. They felt it would interfere with learning to hear traffic when crossing roads without crosswalks. ADA also makes us more different than the masses when we are trying to "fit in".
@davekeays That's interesting. Did the CA Counsel base that on scientific findings, or opinions of the time? I wonder if they've since been able to build a case (many cities have those now, so they should be able to get stats).
I can understand the sentiment of disabled people wanting to fit in with the masses, and think that should definitely be pushed for. But, I also think wheelchair access is necessary, as is handicapped parking for those that truly need it, which the ADA helps with.
@AlexMoensChannel I don't know the reasons. I was only a volunteer guide. If anyone can have a subjective opinion about this it would be a blind person. However, what I saw with my own disability is that the harder the government pushes to change the masses, the harder they push back which is even more painful to us.
@davekeays Of course their opinions should carry more weight. I was only wondering because it's also possible that it would save lives, but also be initially bothersome for blind people. I also commend you for helping them out- I imagine that was far more helpful for them than virtually any other solution could be.
I agree with your government statement as well. I'm all for minimizing and eliminating it as much as possible. It just seems that the opposite seems to be happening, though...
Well looking from an individual point of view, it is unfair to be judged by race. And if discrimination is bad then also positive discrimination is equally bad. One you start to make difference between people and people you're doing something wrong.
I agree that at most affirmative action should be a temporary fix until the differences in education systems sare remedied. Not fully equal in all realms, since that is immpossible, but so that everyone has a legitmate shot at whichever job they seek.
More blacks have been rejected by affirmative action than without it.?Affirmative action is the most demoralizing law ever written for justice in equalty in race. Let me explain; more blacks are rejected by affirmative action than without it. Blacks are compared among blacks chosen for unique diversity among blacks.This is not openly said in choosing.So if your a black from an upper middle class family and diversity needs a black from the city, poor, your a rejected black.
Once the admission policy is set anyone applying for admission must do so accepting the policy as a condition of their entry. If they don't like that they can apply to some other institution that has an admission policy acceptable to them.
The difference between Missions was one type is exclusive and one was inclusive? That is poor reasoning. No matter your personal opinion, each type is both inclusive and exclusive. In the pass it was Inclusive to Caucasians, and exclusive to minorities. The only difference now is it is Inclusive to minorities and Exclusive to Caucasians. If it isn't exclusive then how did that qualified Caucasian girl get excluded?
Even the argument for diversity is flawed because again you cannot know a person's race will in fact contribute to a significant social diversity, only a visual diversity. For instance, my cousin who was adopted from Haiti yet grew up in a Caucasian family. Her personality was shaped by a non minority environment. Based on affirmative action she would be chosen for diversity but would make no difference than her siblings as far as social diversity is concerned.
The list of diverse areas that was listed by Harvard were things more likely to affect a person's diversity, like the things that they did, the talents that they have actually demonstrated several of which are also better measures of potential or promise than something that one cannot control.
Not enough to make a significant difference for her personality. It might make an interesting fact about her but that does not change the experiences and upbringing that molded her personality into what it is today, so in her everyday interactions with others she wouldn have no more of an an impact on social diversity than her siblings.
@Chipwhitley274 no one said anything about personality. Also, you do realize that a sizeable proportion of our personalities come from genetics. Environment does not account for 100% of our personalities, and unless she lived in a vacuum with only her family, to say that she lived the same experiences as someone else is ridiculous. The only way you can compare people in this way is if they were identical twins. To make such an ignorant comment shows that you are not a minority.
No, I can make such a comment because I know my cousins infinitely better than you. I see people by their personality not their color. You may think color should change things but its actually the environment the people around them. Personality is what we are talking about, because the way she behaves, the things she says, what she does is the social diversity that affect others. She isn't going around making speeches about being Haitian raised in a Caucasian family.
@Chipwhitley274 Please stop making a fool of yourself. Personality is NOT social diversity. Persons of different race can have similar personalities. Again, I repeat, personality is NOT social diversity. Social diversity brings in the realm of cultural held beliefs, values and traditions, please tell me what personality has to do with this? You may think you see people by their personality and not their colour, but you obviously are not aware of subliminal processing.
You claim I am making a fool of myself, while you are foolishly nitpicking a narrow scope of what personality means. I already explained it is the things they say, the things they do. So let me spell it out for you, that means their values and traditions etc. And it all comes down to the person sharing those values, traditions and whatever else you want to include by what they SAY or DO. If they keep certain traits to themselves it has no social impact now does it?
@Chipwhitley274 I can't understand what you are saying anymore, it's become much too incoherent to follow. There is no foolish nitpicking, there is only knowledge (that I presume, you have yet to discover yourself). I will let you explore and discover in your own time what personality exactly means (by the way, what you call personality is not technically personality), the extent to which genetics plays a role in personality, and also the importance of subliminal processing.
That's what I meant by nitpicking. Maybe my usage was a larger scope than the strict definition but a reasonable person gets the point. Especially when I said "... the way she behaves, the things she says, what she does ...". You may struggle with critical thinking and comprehension, but it does not follow that anything I have said is incoherent. But I understand your need for a cop-out answer to end a conversation you cannot rebut with your poor logic and reasoning skills.
Oh, and you may want to do some actual studying on subliminal processing before you try to use it in your arguments. It does not support your claims in any way. It may seem like something you can say, to sound intelligent, but it doesn't intimidate me.
@Chipwhitley274 Oh, please, I stopped arguing with you because I didn't want to make you look anymore foolish than you already do. I do research in this very area and I have spent a good amount of life researching personality and individual differences. I do not say things to sound intelligent, that is totally irrelevant to me. At the end of the day, I don't need to convince you of anything, I know what I know and the only word for you is ignorant.
I didn't mention it before but apparently the word for you to use isn't "ignorant" as you have misused it twice. A person or an idea or comment cannot just simply be ignorant, in the way they can be stupid. A person can be ignorant (or not knowing) of a subject, topic, idea etc. For instance, I'm ignorant as to what you had for dinner today (or if you had dinner at all). Or, your ignorance regarding the subject of subliminal processing.
@Chipwhitley274 And for the subliminal processing thing i got cut off because of the word count, but really I couldn't care less about convincing someone like you.
@Chipwhitley274 By the way, the mere fact that she is haitian will mean that she will inevitably live different experiences than her brothers and sisters. That's a fact, even today. You may not realize it, but that does not mean it doesn't happen. Yes, actually, this "interesting" fact WILL actually change the experiences she has, because it is an INDIVIDUAL difference not shared by everyone in her close proximity.
Even if you are attempting to correct for disadvantaged backgrounds it is unfair to base decisions on race. Instead look into the person's history to verify they weren't given equal opportunities such as no choice but to attend a disadvantaged school. A black person who comes from a successful black family who at some point overcame their injustices will be chosen over a white person from an impoverished family, and life. No correction has been made. There is No way to know based solely on race.
Take the argument further, claiming that the correction is meant to promote the ones promise despite not having the education to allow that promise to reflect in test scores etc. it Still would be folly to use race as the determining factor, because lets say the minority Was in a disadvantaged school without the same opportunities, But you cannot know based on their race that they Would have succeeded or whether they have promise. They may have had poor scores regardless of the opportunities.
@dr1980 The point I was trying to make is that we should not make certain decisions, such as residency acceptances following medical school, based on color. Same goes with 'legacy' influencing said decisions. By doing this we do not reward merit and hence also do not end up with the best possible doctors, for example. I could care less if a minority doctor is MY doctor, so long as they are the most competant available. I am against giving priority based on legacy...same principle.
Affirmative Action to me seems itself racist. Not from the logic that it 'punishes Whites' (cringe) but that it suggests inferiority of minorities. Selection on race(independent of economic factors) surely says that racial minorities need more help - that are inherently less capable due to their ethnicity.
Oppurtunity should be decided by potential making compensation solely for socioeconomic factors - if that means that more people of a certain so be it but it shouldn't be a determining factor
Justice demands we allow homosexuals to marry the same as heterosexuals. Morally, you should be voting against any ban on gay marriage because that is purposely & willfully thwarting & depriving other human beings from their natural end & what is due to them. All of us are entitled to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. Taking away the possibility of another to love & commit in the same way as yourself is essentially a moral evil. Stand up for true human justice so we all may know PEACE.
@5:45 Lol at Anesha. I went to a ghetto ass broke HS . I ditched alot, one teacher even said I was the worst student she's ever had in 30 years (o.O) but I made sure I got enough credits to actually graduate. I didn't get into a good college bc my 2.1GPA sucked. The college counselor looked at the classes I signed up for and refused to let me take them. A freshman /w 15 units, Chem1, Math3, Eng1, Cisco, etc. Then she saw my ACT score (34/36) and relented. Making deans list was EZ peezy. Study!!!
Mediocricy is a myth! If you´re a child of a drug addict, there is almost no way you will be a harvard student. Your biological factors are messed up through the environment long before you´re able to reason.
I think everyone here should take comfort in the observation that pretty much 85% of this board is against AA. Give these kids a break, they're young and still VERY idealistic. They've grown up in a country where things are broken down to "left" and "right." Frankly, if anyone who'd actually studied AA history and statistics, and just had good debating skills, could rip Hannah to shreds in a matter of minutes. Hannah, you're human, we're both human. Stop trying to segregate yourself from us...
that was weak as hell. that girl said nothing that supported segregation. you talk about good debating skills as if taking words out of context is a good one at all. no, that was just plain awful.
@DivinelyMochaDipped Divine, you do realize that you've commented on everyones post that's anti-AA, and insulted them, yet you haven't actually made an argument. Furthermore, you've repeated your "weak as hell" comment twice, are you an idiot -- I'm guessing so. Lastly, my point was simply that the problem is socioeconomic and tackling it in a vail of "race" is simply not addressing the problem, it's just a statistic that is skin deep. -Cont-
@DivinelyMochaDipped -Cont 2- Sorry, Divine, your comments have been so ridiculous that I needed extra room to address them all. As far as my comment is concerned, you've simply accused me of things that never happed. First, you say I take her out of context but how did I do that without quoting her? Secondly, you when I talked about her bad debating skills I was more refering to her aggressive, insulting stance. Everyone should get a voice, reguardless of their stupid opinion -Cont-
@DivinelyMochaDipped This is why I don't like Hannah, she is an intelligent passionate youth, yes, but her argument is the same old cliche problem with the same old cliche answer that isn't meant to stop racism. It's just meant to further it in the guise of racial progress. Lastly, AA is segregative, it's just wearing the mask of civil reparation; it was never meant to equal things, just spit back. Now, divine, I've addressed your jerkish statements here and won't answer again. Goodbye, asshole.
Now doesn't that make sense..."fixing" the historical wrongs of discrimination by discriminating against white people. Maybe my mom was wrong. Maybe two wrongs does make a right.
Minorities can be privileged, rich, and at an advantage. Being of a certain minority does not make you inherently at a disadvantage. What does however, is poverty. So why not base affirmative action off of socioeconomic class and not something as uncertain as race?
Going back tens of thousands of years ago, it's most likely everyone has an ancestor who was a rapist or murderer, but no one seems to think we should castrate and imprison everyone around today.
Also, I'm Irish, and have Native American blood in my family. The US government used the Irish OVER slaves because "no one has to pay if a Irishman dies," during several building projects. Irish descendants can be said to be just as poor throughout history. Do I deserve reparations for my blood? Where is my apology from the government? And just to be clear, I wouldn't want to be judged on my past, I prefer to be judged for who I am, not my ancestry, but the example still plays.
Sadly, affirmative action in the work place or schools can cause more harm than good. If I achieve a much higher score on state tests, I may not get into the college of my choice because I have the misfortune of being white. I don't condone racism, or not allowing people into a workplace due to race. But this is reverse racism, instead of accepting people for their merits and achievements, we're still looking at skin color. Slavery was bad yes, but can't we move on and forge a better future?
there are a lot of comments about the student's thinking. in their defense, most of these kids are fresh out of high school. this course is meant to start them thinking about WHY they think things.
Sandel is doing a wonderful job and I'm really enjoying this =^_^=
I was sick at the suggestion that race criteria should be used for diversity - they are essentially suggesting that other races should be paraded for their benefits. That is ridicullous.
A huge factor that so many people fail to realize, is that the only justice in our species is that of natural selection. This world brutal and allowing for those less fit to join the ranks of those superior to them regardless of race or ethnic background is diminishing to our success as a species. You get what you deserve, if a student got a perfect score on a standardized test and another student got anything less, the one with the higher score must be taken, regardless of skin color.
More Diversity? Sounds like a code word for less White people. Does anyone think China or Korea needs to be "more diverse"? Asia for Asians, Africa for Africans, but White countries for Everyone right? It is White Genocide.
Asia is a continent with tons of nations that let minorities in. Africa is a mainland that has countries full of "white" people in them. There isn't a country called white. America—and ALL of its diverse inhabitants— has benefited from slavery, without which there wouldn't be a pedestal that Americans (mostly Caucasian Americans) advantage from to this day. I am against affirmative action by the way.
@InternationalRabbit Fucking retard. I don't agree with affirmative action but don't be fucking rediculous. To call this genocide is humiliating and despicable.
@Mrzombiepigman So what would you call it if someone wanted to flood each and every African country with tens of millions of nonafricans, give all the newcomers special rights and privileges, and encourage them all to "blend together" into a coffee colored humanity?
@InternationalRabbit I would say that was a brilliant idea. Idiot. It would stimulate african economy, just like africans coming here would stimulate your tiny, inbred gene pool.
@InternationalRabbit If Africans is for Africans and Asia is for Asians and you do not want diversity then America for Americans and I'm talking about the Native Americans. Tell the whites in America to go back to Europe and give the land back to the original owners. Tell the whites in Australia to go back to Europe and give that land back to the original owners. Leave South Africa while your at it and give it back aswell until then shut the fuck up and stop complaining about ''white genocide''.
@KhemAndKurami I've been reading about my Cherokee past; most of the land ceded to the US by the Cherokees was "taken" from the Crows in war, Cherokees already had slaves before the white man showed up- the only difference is the color changed about the end of the 18th century. About today, do you want us to treat Mexicans as Mexican treat those from Nicaragua?
@InternationalRabbit If Africans is for Africans and Asia is for Asians and you do not want diversity then America for Americans and I'm talking about the Native Americans. Tell the whites in America to go back to Europe and give the land back to the original owners. Tell the whites in Australia to go back to Europe and give that land back to the original owners. Leave South Africa while your at it and give it back aswell.
@KhemAndKurami Research suggests man arose firstly in Africa and gradually migrated to the rest of the world. The other races evolved from this primary source. In essence we are all Africans.
@ronljudd Correction: you descend from Africans but that my friend does not make you Africans. I understand what you mean but culturally and genetically you are not Africans. Your ancestors were Africans but in my book you are not Africans. You are fellow humans, let's keep it at that.
@ronljudd No because Africa was originally inhabited by the negroid race and not the other races with the exception of northwest africa. If whites are gonna claim stolen land as theirs then they have no right to complain when other inhabitants want to live on that land. If they all move back to Europe and then tell people not to live on their land then that would be understandable.
@KhemAndKurami, and chances are those "native" lands we stole were probably stolen from others. Whites didn't invent slavery or war in Africa or in area we now call America.
I actually liked Hannah's response.... I would go further and say that whites do need to compensate for the slavery and genocide of the indigenous peoples of America, Blacks, and the continuous oppression today. Whites are still the beneficiaries of the oppression of those of color. The system is screwed up, which has never been made for the entire sum (of people) of this country.
Affirmative Action is illegal in the U.K., Germany, and France. Yet, black citizens do much better in those countries, especially the last two, than in America, even though America has affirmative action.
The reason is that we need to tackle these problems of poverty and economic differences directly instead of simply enacting affirmative action. There is no rational argument for affirmative action because it is based on race rather than economic conditions.
@andyx1205 I agree that poverty and economic differences do need to be corrected, however there was never slavery of blacks in the U.K., Germany or France. The practice of slavery institutionalized and made systemic a racism against black citizens, that in many cases requires laws and rules such as affirmative action to gradually correct.
@andyx1205 oh we have affirmative action in germany. or at least something of that kind. the leftist goverment of berlin just decided a few months ago that firefighters and police are supposed to have a certain percentage of immigrants so they lowered the standards because they couldn't get enough. same with the military. pc policies force the bundeswehr to get a certain amount of women so they have to lower the standards so women can pass the physical requirements. all abord the failtrain
It's not about placing a tit-for-tat response the fact is that because of past AND PRESENT injustices the scales are tipped. To say 'oh well now we're not racist' is like saying in court, 'oh well now I'm not beating my wife' : the bruises still remain
What this system is looking at effort 'judge yourself not on where you are but what you gave up to get there''
Affirmative action is a bad joke. It punishes people for the sins of their ancestors. It gives people special advantage based on the color of their skin. It lumps all individuals into big blobs and stereotypes them." Blacks as a whole are doing worse than whites so it's safe to assume all blacks are disadvantaged." seems to be their logic. It's as illogical as treating all blacks as criminals.
Some black students may have gone to poor schools? Yeah they weren't going by who went to poor schools they go by race, so presumably a rich black kid would've gotten the same advantage meanwhile a poor white kid is SOL. Real fairness there /sarcasm
What if a business corporation says, " we don't need diversity to achieve our goal and don't need women in our company"? How could they defense the Equal Employment Act?
I am disappointed that all those Harvard Students got sucked into this whole "slavery..... ancestor......legacy.....Minority disadvantage" thing. No one in that class saw this issue from a different point of view?
this is my personal view: a university has the privilege to choose a student based on his/her personal history, experience, cultural background, religion, and athletic ability for the best interest of its student and faculty body over his/her academic achievement.
the president is black.... to say minorities still need help is to say that they can't do what anyone else can do,,, that is racist.. As far as Im concerned everyone should work as hard as they must to attain certain things
Michael Sandel is just excellent. He listens, comprehends and replies rationally, and is never prejudiced or discourteous. He's a true gentleman and a scholar. L
Suppose you gave the better flutes to the lesser players and the lesser flutes to the better players such that the music produced by all is of equal, average quality. From an economic standpoint, the total product may be lower, as we have a mismatch between resources leading to inefficiency. But everyone can earn the same wage from producing the same average quality music.
@aed939 ahhh an ingenuous way to bring about equality.. financial and economical..
now let's take it this way: compare flutes with job positions and players with employees.. what you say is akin to giving an ordinary employee a CEO position. and a low level job position to an excellent employee.. such CEOs would never be able to run organizations and final outcome may be negative.. waste of all resources..
There must be other ways to even out the outcomes. the deserving must get his/her due.
@aed939 So what happens when the better players buy better flutes? Isn't your idea punishing people with talent?
Also it reminds me of a fictional dystopia where everyone had to be equal. The smart people had to wear headphones with white noise so they would be as smart as the stupid people. Everyone had to wear weights so they would be as physically fit as the handicapped.
I think that affirmative action should favor people of poorer socio-economic backgrounds. That would diversify the student body the most and that would help account for those who didn't have all the privileges of the wealthy (SAT classes, piano lessons, tutors, etc.). There are poor white people.
I think race-based affirmative action further supports the assumption that minorities need extra help.
I think that affirmative action should favor people of poorer socio-economic backgrounds. That would diversify the student body the most and that would help account for those who didn't have all the privileges of the wealthy (SAT classes, piano lessons, tutors, etc.). There are poor white people.
I think race-based affirmative action further supports the assumption that minorities need extra help.
I think that affirmative action should favor people of poorer socio-economic backgrounds. That would diversify the student body the most and that would help account for those who didn't have all the privileges of the wealthy (SAT classes, piano lessons, tutors, etc.). There are poor white people.
I think race-based affirmative action further supports the assumption that minorities need extra help.
If I ever need a risky surgical procedure I sure as hell would want the best surgeon possible and not necessarily the most diverse. Thus I know if a young white dude is my doctor, he probably has gotten there on his own merits. Just sayin
@AlexClinkenbeard and yet studies show no difference in performance between those two doctors. Affirmitive action is not letting in the sub-standard. It is letting in people handicapped by their background. They are smart, but not challenged and inspired. AA gives them a shot, a shot that many of them take and run with.
@InternationalRabbit Well they went to schools that were no where near the quality of their white counterparts. Raw intelligence won't get you too far on most tests. Don't believe me? Try taking a Chinese college application test. You may be smart, but you haven't been educated in Chinese so, you're done. Black students, on the whole, are at a huge disadvantage in the education world. Combine this with white networking and favortism / nepotism, and there is a strong case for affirmative action.
@majinspy blacks aren't the only disadvantaged. What of my ancestors from the Ozarks (read poor rednecks), or my other ancestors that came from the Cherokee tribe?
@majinspy I don't know about affirmative action in school enrolments, but that wasn't true with a similar program that is near my heart- American Disability Act in the work place. I've heard that employment numbers went down for the handicap with the ADA, and I know we are now seen as even more of a burden to the employer. Sorry but government trying to balance the scales has hurt me too much for me to agree with affirmative action.
@davekeays How has the government hurt you? I'd be curious to here. Poor white people can be discriminated against. However this can be hidden without too much effort and doesn't carry near the stigma being black does. In this country, "whiteness" is a real social construct. There was never a Jim Crow for poor whites. Blacks were specifically attacked and hurt by our government for the purpose of oppressing them. The government attempting to fix that will be imperfect....and necessary.
@ 21:02 Sandel speaks about the Chewbacca Defense during the so called Bacci (short for Chewbacca) Case. Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?
@lawlroy No no no no, all views are put forth on the table regardless of the fact that some, Hannah's in your opinion is "idiocy". Do not belittle that which you disagree with, no matter how the argument is put forth, state your opposition and support reasonable debate.
22:15, by extension, Harvard could admit ONLY black or ONLY white students, because whether or not we find that to be qualities on which admission should be based is irrelevant. Harvard sets the standard.
You can understand maybe that I find this argument to be unconvincing
Fuck you Aristotle. Your reasoning just creates stagnation.
First, how do you judge what the proper purpose of an object is? Especially if it's something more generally useful than a flute. What is the purpose of water? To drink? To wash? To be used in manufacture? Which purpose is best? How can you possibly assign this value.
Second, you're creating a situation in which no one is rewarded or even allowed to find alternate uses for a previously established object or idea.
Can't even imagine , how come in USA today, these kind of question can be raised ? the answer is beyond obvious, race can't be a label, can't be a reason for that situation. these kind of sentiment have to be largely unaccepted , that's one of the goals this open class for, which I believe.
lustring 2 days ago
Hannah rules!
nuevayoriquenyo 1 week ago in playlist Liked videos
Hanna is HOT!!
freddie702 1 month ago
Comment removed
boblasouris 1 month ago
Comment removed
boblasouris 1 month ago
what is the thing hanna is wearing?
TunioMir 1 month ago 4
@TunioMir Usually that thing is used for foreign people that don't know the language and it gets translated by someone else. They're basically headphones.
FlorinGG 1 month ago
I guess Ted got into Harvard through Family admission...
satananass 2 months ago in playlist Weitere Videos von Harvard 13
@rgktexas7 all of my yes!
exactly what I was thingking actually...
kaaskop01 2 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@kaaskop01 *thinking
kaaskop01 2 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@rgktexas7 if i was born blind, i can bring a fresh perspective to the educational environment of harvard. if i was born without hair, i can bring an interesting perspective to the educational environment of harvard. if i was born without a nose, i can bring a strange perspective to the educational environment. if i was born with a dark pigment in my skin, i can bring a different perspective to the educational invironment of harvard.
uiluj13 2 months ago
White Harvard student picking her nose @ 15:00. Another reason to argue for AA. Clearly, booger picking aptitude should also be a consideration in admissions.
raspystylez 2 months ago
I find it amusing how the view count slowly decreases as the episodes go on.
Stellawasadiver3438 2 months ago
@rgktexas7 human species, not race.
That aside, there (still) is such a thing as cultural segregation largely based on race. It's not a good thing, but that doesnt make it less true
TheMylittletony 2 months ago
inclusion is exclusion of there is a finite number of spots at a college.
Siagos 2 months ago
mnemonics?
kotofu 2 months ago
Can't wait to see AFFIRMATIVE ACTION gone.
stap0510 2 months ago
they don't have to let you in at all regardless of any test score, gpa, etc. its an completely arbitrary system to begin with.
hollaboutit 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey people, there is NO such thing as race.
sotweeddude 3 months ago
The goals of giving students a "formal education" and the benefits of the socialization with students of different backgrounds and cultures are not mutually exclusive, nor should they be. Our society does NOT need more university graduates with narrow world views and elitist attitudes.
Heartsinger1970 3 months ago
Comment removed
jimmyclement08 3 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
It is hard to accept but 36:53 and 37:35 are so true
hum994 3 months ago
Comment removed
TheSpiritOfTheTimes 3 months ago
The two guys at 1:26 always, and I mean always, sit together. Just a bromance or something more?
TheSpiritOfTheTimes 3 months ago
the black girl at 11:20 pisses me off so much. All i heard was the nepitism is not ok if im in the out group and is ok if im in the in group.
How about we start with nepitism is worng nomatter what
OnlyTheWeakNeedHelp 3 months ago
It's of course Harvard that has to define what it wants to accomplish.
If education is the main purpose of Harvard, then diversity shouldn't matter.
If diversity is the main purpose of Harvard, then education shouldn't matter at all and they should start accepting people not based on knowledge but on a criteria such as ethnicity.
For the country as whole, it would be better if the absolute top students, no matter race religion, ethnicity or gender were the ones that were admitted.
Lockheim 3 months ago
@Lockheim The argument is, rather, that people who are exposed to diversity are better off for it. Is a racist who has never left his small town and never encountered anybody of a differing opinion, but is otherwise exceptionally smart- would you say he is a fully educated person? And, what is education? I would think knowledge accumulation both in breadth and depth would be essential. Diversity is, then, inherent in a complete education.
AlexMoensChannel 3 months ago
@AlexMoensChannel Maybe, but there are those who would say otherwise. Instead of trying to decide who is right and who is wrong in cases like this I would leave it to individual agreements. Let people who agree it helps apply at schools with affirmative action enrollments.
Another question, if diversity is so important then why disallow diverse opinions by saying this is the only way schools can work?
davekeays 2 months ago
@davekeays Many private institutions already practice this. Case in point: same sex schools. For public institutions, however, I would argue that the government's role is to insure as close to equal opportunity as possible. So, in defense of affirmative action, people who experienced certain hardships (socioeconomic, racial or otherwise) should have that be considered, all else equal. Other things (football, violin, etc) ARE left up to the institutions & provides the diversity you mention.
AlexMoensChannel 2 months ago
@AlexMoensChannel You are right, regulations for public institutions should be very different than private institutions- I would say base the decisions on the wants of the tax payers. While these kinds of programs are called "equal opportunity", I personally know that a similar program (ADA) hurts more than helps and that if you had a disability it became more difficult to find a job.
davekeays 2 months ago
@davekeays I mostly agree, except in some instances basing all decisions on the wants of the tax payers. In most circumstances this should be the case, but we also have to look out for tyranny of the majority. There are certain "inalienable rights" that shouldn't be taken away, or possibly even unfairly enhanced for others. Also, the ADA covers more than job acquisition- it's what gives wheelchair access & handicapped parking, so it has pros and cons for sure. How would we be better w/o it?
AlexMoensChannel 2 months ago
@AlexMoensChannel The system we have considers the majority needs/wants as long as it doesn't step on indiv rights.
The Calif Counsel of the Blind was against the audible crosswalks cities were putting in to be ADA compliant. They felt it would interfere with learning to hear traffic when crossing roads without crosswalks. ADA also makes us more different than the masses when we are trying to "fit in".
davekeays 2 months ago
@davekeays That's interesting. Did the CA Counsel base that on scientific findings, or opinions of the time? I wonder if they've since been able to build a case (many cities have those now, so they should be able to get stats).
I can understand the sentiment of disabled people wanting to fit in with the masses, and think that should definitely be pushed for. But, I also think wheelchair access is necessary, as is handicapped parking for those that truly need it, which the ADA helps with.
AlexMoensChannel 2 months ago
@AlexMoensChannel I don't know the reasons. I was only a volunteer guide. If anyone can have a subjective opinion about this it would be a blind person. However, what I saw with my own disability is that the harder the government pushes to change the masses, the harder they push back which is even more painful to us.
davekeays 2 months ago
@davekeays Of course their opinions should carry more weight. I was only wondering because it's also possible that it would save lives, but also be initially bothersome for blind people. I also commend you for helping them out- I imagine that was far more helpful for them than virtually any other solution could be.
I agree with your government statement as well. I'm all for minimizing and eliminating it as much as possible. It just seems that the opposite seems to be happening, though...
AlexMoensChannel 2 months ago
Well looking from an individual point of view, it is unfair to be judged by race. And if discrimination is bad then also positive discrimination is equally bad. One you start to make difference between people and people you're doing something wrong.
Lockheim 3 months ago
I agree that at most affirmative action should be a temporary fix until the differences in education systems sare remedied. Not fully equal in all realms, since that is immpossible, but so that everyone has a legitmate shot at whichever job they seek.
Phobos2085 3 months ago
Side note: How does Sandel memorize names on the fly and still put them with their statements much later in the lecture? Simply stunning.
Phobos2085 3 months ago 32
@Phobos2085 It's quite obvious the lectures are edited though. None of those boring interstices like giving the microphone to the students, etc.
TheSpiritOfTheTimes 3 months ago
@Phobos2085 Probably because he's been a teacher for a good many years and his brain's trained by now :)
DayOfDoom2 3 weeks ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@Phobos2085 I think over time, people can develop some amazing skills.
lustring 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Some people want white females to mix with non-white males.
I made a one-minute video highlighting a very tiny sample of race-mixing advertisements.
I love white people, and I am opposed to race-mixing. But I do not hate non-whites.
If you click on my name “autumntree2011” highlighted in blue below this comment, you can watch my video.
(I'm not a fan of Hitler or KKK.)
autumntree2011 3 months ago
I like that Aristotle guy. He's alright. I only wish more politicians had "great civic virtue".
davorunner 4 months ago
More blacks have been rejected by affirmative action than without it.?Affirmative action is the most demoralizing law ever written for justice in equalty in race. Let me explain; more blacks are rejected by affirmative action than without it. Blacks are compared among blacks chosen for unique diversity among blacks.This is not openly said in choosing.So if your a black from an upper middle class family and diversity needs a black from the city, poor, your a rejected black.
polopowers1 4 months ago
Research suggests we all originated in Africa. Our ancestors were African. That applies to all hominids.
ronljudd 4 months ago
Once the admission policy is set anyone applying for admission must do so accepting the policy as a condition of their entry. If they don't like that they can apply to some other institution that has an admission policy acceptable to them.
ronljudd 4 months ago
The difference between Missions was one type is exclusive and one was inclusive? That is poor reasoning. No matter your personal opinion, each type is both inclusive and exclusive. In the pass it was Inclusive to Caucasians, and exclusive to minorities. The only difference now is it is Inclusive to minorities and Exclusive to Caucasians. If it isn't exclusive then how did that qualified Caucasian girl get excluded?
Chipwhitley274 4 months ago
Comment removed
Chipwhitley274 4 months ago
Even the argument for diversity is flawed because again you cannot know a person's race will in fact contribute to a significant social diversity, only a visual diversity. For instance, my cousin who was adopted from Haiti yet grew up in a Caucasian family. Her personality was shaped by a non minority environment. Based on affirmative action she would be chosen for diversity but would make no difference than her siblings as far as social diversity is concerned.
Chipwhitley274 4 months ago
The list of diverse areas that was listed by Harvard were things more likely to affect a person's diversity, like the things that they did, the talents that they have actually demonstrated several of which are also better measures of potential or promise than something that one cannot control.
Chipwhitley274 4 months ago
@Chipwhitley274 Perhaps, but don't you think it is a unique perspective to be brought up in a family of a different race?
nhessing1 1 month ago
@nhessing1
Not enough to make a significant difference for her personality. It might make an interesting fact about her but that does not change the experiences and upbringing that molded her personality into what it is today, so in her everyday interactions with others she wouldn have no more of an an impact on social diversity than her siblings.
Chipwhitley274 1 month ago
@Chipwhitley274 no one said anything about personality. Also, you do realize that a sizeable proportion of our personalities come from genetics. Environment does not account for 100% of our personalities, and unless she lived in a vacuum with only her family, to say that she lived the same experiences as someone else is ridiculous. The only way you can compare people in this way is if they were identical twins. To make such an ignorant comment shows that you are not a minority.
nhessing1 1 month ago
@nhessing1
No, I can make such a comment because I know my cousins infinitely better than you. I see people by their personality not their color. You may think color should change things but its actually the environment the people around them. Personality is what we are talking about, because the way she behaves, the things she says, what she does is the social diversity that affect others. She isn't going around making speeches about being Haitian raised in a Caucasian family.
Chipwhitley274 1 month ago
@Chipwhitley274 Please stop making a fool of yourself. Personality is NOT social diversity. Persons of different race can have similar personalities. Again, I repeat, personality is NOT social diversity. Social diversity brings in the realm of cultural held beliefs, values and traditions, please tell me what personality has to do with this? You may think you see people by their personality and not their colour, but you obviously are not aware of subliminal processing.
nhessing1 1 month ago
@nhessing1
You claim I am making a fool of myself, while you are foolishly nitpicking a narrow scope of what personality means. I already explained it is the things they say, the things they do. So let me spell it out for you, that means their values and traditions etc. And it all comes down to the person sharing those values, traditions and whatever else you want to include by what they SAY or DO. If they keep certain traits to themselves it has no social impact now does it?
Chipwhitley274 1 month ago
@Chipwhitley274 I can't understand what you are saying anymore, it's become much too incoherent to follow. There is no foolish nitpicking, there is only knowledge (that I presume, you have yet to discover yourself). I will let you explore and discover in your own time what personality exactly means (by the way, what you call personality is not technically personality), the extent to which genetics plays a role in personality, and also the importance of subliminal processing.
nhessing1 1 month ago
@nhessing1
That's what I meant by nitpicking. Maybe my usage was a larger scope than the strict definition but a reasonable person gets the point. Especially when I said "... the way she behaves, the things she says, what she does ...". You may struggle with critical thinking and comprehension, but it does not follow that anything I have said is incoherent. But I understand your need for a cop-out answer to end a conversation you cannot rebut with your poor logic and reasoning skills.
Chipwhitley274 1 month ago
@nhessing1
Oh, and you may want to do some actual studying on subliminal processing before you try to use it in your arguments. It does not support your claims in any way. It may seem like something you can say, to sound intelligent, but it doesn't intimidate me.
Chipwhitley274 1 month ago
@Chipwhitley274 Oh, please, I stopped arguing with you because I didn't want to make you look anymore foolish than you already do. I do research in this very area and I have spent a good amount of life researching personality and individual differences. I do not say things to sound intelligent, that is totally irrelevant to me. At the end of the day, I don't need to convince you of anything, I know what I know and the only word for you is ignorant.
nhessing1 1 month ago
@nhessing1
"Oh, please, I stopped arguing with you because I didn't want to make you look anymore foolish than you already do."
Uh huh...
"I do research in this very area and I have spent a good amount of life researching ..."
You must not be a very effective researcher if you actually study a subject for such a length of time, yet have little understanding of it.
Chipwhitley274 1 month ago
@nhessing1
I didn't mention it before but apparently the word for you to use isn't "ignorant" as you have misused it twice. A person or an idea or comment cannot just simply be ignorant, in the way they can be stupid. A person can be ignorant (or not knowing) of a subject, topic, idea etc. For instance, I'm ignorant as to what you had for dinner today (or if you had dinner at all). Or, your ignorance regarding the subject of subliminal processing.
Chipwhitley274 1 month ago
@Chipwhitley274 And for the subliminal processing thing i got cut off because of the word count, but really I couldn't care less about convincing someone like you.
Merry Xmas
nhessing1 1 month ago
@Chipwhitley274 By the way, the mere fact that she is haitian will mean that she will inevitably live different experiences than her brothers and sisters. That's a fact, even today. You may not realize it, but that does not mean it doesn't happen. Yes, actually, this "interesting" fact WILL actually change the experiences she has, because it is an INDIVIDUAL difference not shared by everyone in her close proximity.
nhessing1 1 month ago
Even if you are attempting to correct for disadvantaged backgrounds it is unfair to base decisions on race. Instead look into the person's history to verify they weren't given equal opportunities such as no choice but to attend a disadvantaged school. A black person who comes from a successful black family who at some point overcame their injustices will be chosen over a white person from an impoverished family, and life. No correction has been made. There is No way to know based solely on race.
Chipwhitley274 4 months ago
Take the argument further, claiming that the correction is meant to promote the ones promise despite not having the education to allow that promise to reflect in test scores etc. it Still would be folly to use race as the determining factor, because lets say the minority Was in a disadvantaged school without the same opportunities, But you cannot know based on their race that they Would have succeeded or whether they have promise. They may have had poor scores regardless of the opportunities.
Chipwhitley274 4 months ago
@dr1980 The point I was trying to make is that we should not make certain decisions, such as residency acceptances following medical school, based on color. Same goes with 'legacy' influencing said decisions. By doing this we do not reward merit and hence also do not end up with the best possible doctors, for example. I could care less if a minority doctor is MY doctor, so long as they are the most competant available. I am against giving priority based on legacy...same principle.
AlexClinkenbeard 4 months ago
Affirmative Action to me seems itself racist. Not from the logic that it 'punishes Whites' (cringe) but that it suggests inferiority of minorities. Selection on race(independent of economic factors) surely says that racial minorities need more help - that are inherently less capable due to their ethnicity.
Oppurtunity should be decided by potential making compensation solely for socioeconomic factors - if that means that more people of a certain so be it but it shouldn't be a determining factor
melvinater 4 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@melvinater Perhaps oppportunity should be given to only those who can spell it.
ronljudd 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Justice demands we allow homosexuals to marry the same as heterosexuals. Morally, you should be voting against any ban on gay marriage because that is purposely & willfully thwarting & depriving other human beings from their natural end & what is due to them. All of us are entitled to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. Taking away the possibility of another to love & commit in the same way as yourself is essentially a moral evil. Stand up for true human justice so we all may know PEACE.
tytheeman20 4 months ago
past wrongs DO affect the present
John Smith can go to harvard because his grandfather was a slave owner
his family had a huge advantage against a lamar johnson guy whose grandfather was a slave
and had to work at the thrift store for a whole life time to catch up to the past generation of the john smith family
and LMAO at not all minorities have been discriminated
just because the chinese/mexican have not been REALLY enslaved mean that they weren't discriminated against
matereymate 4 months ago
@5:45 Lol at Anesha. I went to a ghetto ass broke HS . I ditched alot, one teacher even said I was the worst student she's ever had in 30 years (o.O) but I made sure I got enough credits to actually graduate. I didn't get into a good college bc my 2.1GPA sucked. The college counselor looked at the classes I signed up for and refused to let me take them. A freshman /w 15 units, Chem1, Math3, Eng1, Cisco, etc. Then she saw my ACT score (34/36) and relented. Making deans list was EZ peezy. Study!!!
Soliden1000 4 months ago in playlist More videos from Harvard
Mediocricy is a myth! If you´re a child of a drug addict, there is almost no way you will be a harvard student. Your biological factors are messed up through the environment long before you´re able to reason.
Durhandoni80 4 months ago
I think everyone here should take comfort in the observation that pretty much 85% of this board is against AA. Give these kids a break, they're young and still VERY idealistic. They've grown up in a country where things are broken down to "left" and "right." Frankly, if anyone who'd actually studied AA history and statistics, and just had good debating skills, could rip Hannah to shreds in a matter of minutes. Hannah, you're human, we're both human. Stop trying to segregate yourself from us...
EJNewbury 5 months ago
@EJNewbury
that was weak as hell. that girl said nothing that supported segregation. you talk about good debating skills as if taking words out of context is a good one at all. no, that was just plain awful.
DivinelyMochaDipped 4 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@DivinelyMochaDipped Divine, you do realize that you've commented on everyones post that's anti-AA, and insulted them, yet you haven't actually made an argument. Furthermore, you've repeated your "weak as hell" comment twice, are you an idiot -- I'm guessing so. Lastly, my point was simply that the problem is socioeconomic and tackling it in a vail of "race" is simply not addressing the problem, it's just a statistic that is skin deep. -Cont-
EJNewbury 4 months ago
@DivinelyMochaDipped -Cont 2- Sorry, Divine, your comments have been so ridiculous that I needed extra room to address them all. As far as my comment is concerned, you've simply accused me of things that never happed. First, you say I take her out of context but how did I do that without quoting her? Secondly, you when I talked about her bad debating skills I was more refering to her aggressive, insulting stance. Everyone should get a voice, reguardless of their stupid opinion -Cont-
EJNewbury 4 months ago
@DivinelyMochaDipped This is why I don't like Hannah, she is an intelligent passionate youth, yes, but her argument is the same old cliche problem with the same old cliche answer that isn't meant to stop racism. It's just meant to further it in the guise of racial progress. Lastly, AA is segregative, it's just wearing the mask of civil reparation; it was never meant to equal things, just spit back. Now, divine, I've addressed your jerkish statements here and won't answer again. Goodbye, asshole.
EJNewbury 4 months ago
Now doesn't that make sense..."fixing" the historical wrongs of discrimination by discriminating against white people. Maybe my mom was wrong. Maybe two wrongs does make a right.
archon95 5 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@archon95 have you even been listening to the debate?
Lius525 5 months ago
@Lius525 Yes I have, but sorry, it doesn't seem like perpetuating racial distinctions is doing justice to the legacy of the civil rights movement
archon95 5 months ago
@archon95
there are a lot of things about this society that aren't doing justice to the legacy of the Civil Rights Movement. -_-
DivinelyMochaDipped 4 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
Minorities can be privileged, rich, and at an advantage. Being of a certain minority does not make you inherently at a disadvantage. What does however, is poverty. So why not base affirmative action off of socioeconomic class and not something as uncertain as race?
mosaj94 5 months ago
Going back tens of thousands of years ago, it's most likely everyone has an ancestor who was a rapist or murderer, but no one seems to think we should castrate and imprison everyone around today.
Iguessijustdontknow 5 months ago
@Iguessijustdontknow
That was weak as hell. America was not even in existence tens of thousands of years ago. (-_-)
What went on in other societies has no bearing on this one and has no place in this argument. Nice try though...I guess.
DivinelyMochaDipped 4 months ago
Comment removed
Iguessijustdontknow 4 months ago
@DivinelyMochaDipped wwwooooooowwwww. I was making fun of the absurdity of the argument. I guess it's good that you caught on at least half way.
Iguessijustdontknow 4 months ago
Ted is a legacy admittance.
namedULaika 6 months ago
@namedULaika
lmao
DivinelyMochaDipped 4 months ago
Also, I'm Irish, and have Native American blood in my family. The US government used the Irish OVER slaves because "no one has to pay if a Irishman dies," during several building projects. Irish descendants can be said to be just as poor throughout history. Do I deserve reparations for my blood? Where is my apology from the government? And just to be clear, I wouldn't want to be judged on my past, I prefer to be judged for who I am, not my ancestry, but the example still plays.
WestG2008 6 months ago
Sadly, affirmative action in the work place or schools can cause more harm than good. If I achieve a much higher score on state tests, I may not get into the college of my choice because I have the misfortune of being white. I don't condone racism, or not allowing people into a workplace due to race. But this is reverse racism, instead of accepting people for their merits and achievements, we're still looking at skin color. Slavery was bad yes, but can't we move on and forge a better future?
WestG2008 6 months ago
Winnie the Pooh!
monicapink94 6 months ago
there are a lot of comments about the student's thinking. in their defense, most of these kids are fresh out of high school. this course is meant to start them thinking about WHY they think things.
Sandel is doing a wonderful job and I'm really enjoying this =^_^=
davincisdonut 6 months ago
I was sick at the suggestion that race criteria should be used for diversity - they are essentially suggesting that other races should be paraded for their benefits. That is ridicullous.
pedrohadek 6 months ago
A huge factor that so many people fail to realize, is that the only justice in our species is that of natural selection. This world brutal and allowing for those less fit to join the ranks of those superior to them regardless of race or ethnic background is diminishing to our success as a species. You get what you deserve, if a student got a perfect score on a standardized test and another student got anything less, the one with the higher score must be taken, regardless of skin color.
1990alexg 6 months ago
More Diversity? Sounds like a code word for less White people. Does anyone think China or Korea needs to be "more diverse"? Asia for Asians, Africa for Africans, but White countries for Everyone right? It is White Genocide.
InternationalRabbit 7 months ago
@InternationalRabbit
So in your opinion America was built by whites for whites?
erfbgu 6 months ago
Asia is a continent with tons of nations that let minorities in. Africa is a mainland that has countries full of "white" people in them. There isn't a country called white. America—and ALL of its diverse inhabitants— has benefited from slavery, without which there wouldn't be a pedestal that Americans (mostly Caucasian Americans) advantage from to this day. I am against affirmative action by the way.
EyonDreams 5 months ago
@InternationalRabbit Fucking retard. I don't agree with affirmative action but don't be fucking rediculous. To call this genocide is humiliating and despicable.
Mrzombiepigman 5 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@Mrzombiepigman So what would you call it if someone wanted to flood each and every African country with tens of millions of nonafricans, give all the newcomers special rights and privileges, and encourage them all to "blend together" into a coffee colored humanity?
InternationalRabbit 5 months ago
@InternationalRabbit I would say that was a brilliant idea. Idiot. It would stimulate african economy, just like africans coming here would stimulate your tiny, inbred gene pool.
Mrzombiepigman 4 months ago
@InternationalRabbit And it's probably people like you who reinforce peoples confidence in affirmative action, by the way.
Mrzombiepigman 5 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@InternationalRabbit If Africans is for Africans and Asia is for Asians and you do not want diversity then America for Americans and I'm talking about the Native Americans. Tell the whites in America to go back to Europe and give the land back to the original owners. Tell the whites in Australia to go back to Europe and give that land back to the original owners. Leave South Africa while your at it and give it back aswell until then shut the fuck up and stop complaining about ''white genocide''.
KhemAndKurami 4 months ago
@KhemAndKurami I've been reading about my Cherokee past; most of the land ceded to the US by the Cherokees was "taken" from the Crows in war, Cherokees already had slaves before the white man showed up- the only difference is the color changed about the end of the 18th century. About today, do you want us to treat Mexicans as Mexican treat those from Nicaragua?
davekeays 2 months ago
@davekeays I'm not talking about slavery, I'm talking about land.
KhemAndKurami 2 months ago
@InternationalRabbit If Africans is for Africans and Asia is for Asians and you do not want diversity then America for Americans and I'm talking about the Native Americans. Tell the whites in America to go back to Europe and give the land back to the original owners. Tell the whites in Australia to go back to Europe and give that land back to the original owners. Leave South Africa while your at it and give it back aswell.
KhemAndKurami 4 months ago
@KhemAndKurami Research suggests man arose firstly in Africa and gradually migrated to the rest of the world. The other races evolved from this primary source. In essence we are all Africans.
ronljudd 4 months ago
@ronljudd Correction: you descend from Africans but that my friend does not make you Africans. I understand what you mean but culturally and genetically you are not Africans. Your ancestors were Africans but in my book you are not Africans. You are fellow humans, let's keep it at that.
KhemAndKurami 4 months ago
@InternationalRabbit Whites have stolen land so they could expand and yet you complain when other inhabitants live on that land, fuckin' hypocrites.
KhemAndKurami 4 months ago
@KhemAndKurami On that basis we will all end up in Africa where we originated.
ronljudd 4 months ago
@ronljudd No because Africa was originally inhabited by the negroid race and not the other races with the exception of northwest africa. If whites are gonna claim stolen land as theirs then they have no right to complain when other inhabitants want to live on that land. If they all move back to Europe and then tell people not to live on their land then that would be understandable.
KhemAndKurami 4 months ago
@KhemAndKurami, and chances are those "native" lands we stole were probably stolen from others. Whites didn't invent slavery or war in Africa or in area we now call America.
davekeays 2 months ago
@InternationalRabbit America for Americans. Europeans should all go back to Europe and leave the Native Americans alone.
zyy321dory 4 months ago
So......................... is Aristotle for aristocracy? Does he completely oppose democracy? Sorry I know this question is stupid
minminsoku 7 months ago
I actually liked Hannah's response.... I would go further and say that whites do need to compensate for the slavery and genocide of the indigenous peoples of America, Blacks, and the continuous oppression today. Whites are still the beneficiaries of the oppression of those of color. The system is screwed up, which has never been made for the entire sum (of people) of this country.
Cherryluvly 7 months ago
Affirmative Action is illegal in the U.K., Germany, and France. Yet, black citizens do much better in those countries, especially the last two, than in America, even though America has affirmative action.
The reason is that we need to tackle these problems of poverty and economic differences directly instead of simply enacting affirmative action. There is no rational argument for affirmative action because it is based on race rather than economic conditions.
andyx1205 8 months ago 37
@andyx1205 I agree that poverty and economic differences do need to be corrected, however there was never slavery of blacks in the U.K., Germany or France. The practice of slavery institutionalized and made systemic a racism against black citizens, that in many cases requires laws and rules such as affirmative action to gradually correct.
WorldOfTubecrack 4 months ago
@andyx1205 oh we have affirmative action in germany. or at least something of that kind. the leftist goverment of berlin just decided a few months ago that firefighters and police are supposed to have a certain percentage of immigrants so they lowered the standards because they couldn't get enough. same with the military. pc policies force the bundeswehr to get a certain amount of women so they have to lower the standards so women can pass the physical requirements. all abord the failtrain
happosai27 4 months ago in playlist Weitere Videos von Harvard
@happosai27 Sounds like Germany is being diluted by American ideals.
davekeays 2 months ago
@davekeays yup its the same bs all over the world
happosai27 2 months ago
It's not about placing a tit-for-tat response the fact is that because of past AND PRESENT injustices the scales are tipped. To say 'oh well now we're not racist' is like saying in court, 'oh well now I'm not beating my wife' : the bruises still remain
What this system is looking at effort 'judge yourself not on where you are but what you gave up to get there''
somedaymonday 8 months ago
THIS LECTURE IS GETTING SO EXCITING!!!!!!!
PeggyTeachesChinese 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Affirmative action is a bad joke. It punishes people for the sins of their ancestors. It gives people special advantage based on the color of their skin. It lumps all individuals into big blobs and stereotypes them." Blacks as a whole are doing worse than whites so it's safe to assume all blacks are disadvantaged." seems to be their logic. It's as illogical as treating all blacks as criminals.
FatherTime89 9 months ago 3
Comment removed
FatherTime89 9 months ago
Some black students may have gone to poor schools? Yeah they weren't going by who went to poor schools they go by race, so presumably a rich black kid would've gotten the same advantage meanwhile a poor white kid is SOL. Real fairness there /sarcasm
FatherTime89 9 months ago
Comment removed
FatherTime89 9 months ago
I find it ironic that an anti-nepotism debate is being held at Harvard of all places.
senorfatso 9 months ago
Comment removed
senorfatso 9 months ago
What if a business corporation says, " we don't need diversity to achieve our goal and don't need women in our company"? How could they defense the Equal Employment Act?
bebichon 9 months ago
I am disappointed that all those Harvard Students got sucked into this whole "slavery..... ancestor......legacy.....Minority disadvantage" thing. No one in that class saw this issue from a different point of view?
this is my personal view: a university has the privilege to choose a student based on his/her personal history, experience, cultural background, religion, and athletic ability for the best interest of its student and faculty body over his/her academic achievement.
laihan8787 9 months ago
the president is black.... to say minorities still need help is to say that they can't do what anyone else can do,,, that is racist.. As far as Im concerned everyone should work as hard as they must to attain certain things
TheMichaelwfontana 10 months ago
Michael Sandel is just excellent. He listens, comprehends and replies rationally, and is never prejudiced or discourteous. He's a true gentleman and a scholar. L
lanceblack88 11 months ago
this is very interesting like im in highschool and i always thought that university lessons were boring and depressing but i was wrong
125326shante 11 months ago
Suppose you gave the better flutes to the lesser players and the lesser flutes to the better players such that the music produced by all is of equal, average quality. From an economic standpoint, the total product may be lower, as we have a mismatch between resources leading to inefficiency. But everyone can earn the same wage from producing the same average quality music.
aed939 1 year ago
@aed939 ahhh an ingenuous way to bring about equality.. financial and economical..
now let's take it this way: compare flutes with job positions and players with employees.. what you say is akin to giving an ordinary employee a CEO position. and a low level job position to an excellent employee.. such CEOs would never be able to run organizations and final outcome may be negative.. waste of all resources..
There must be other ways to even out the outcomes. the deserving must get his/her due.
ashdesai8 9 months ago
@aed939 So what happens when the better players buy better flutes? Isn't your idea punishing people with talent?
Also it reminds me of a fictional dystopia where everyone had to be equal. The smart people had to wear headphones with white noise so they would be as smart as the stupid people. Everyone had to wear weights so they would be as physically fit as the handicapped.
FatherTime89 9 months ago
I think that affirmative action should favor people of poorer socio-economic backgrounds. That would diversify the student body the most and that would help account for those who didn't have all the privileges of the wealthy (SAT classes, piano lessons, tutors, etc.). There are poor white people.
I think race-based affirmative action further supports the assumption that minorities need extra help.
ngailk 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think that affirmative action should favor people of poorer socio-economic backgrounds. That would diversify the student body the most and that would help account for those who didn't have all the privileges of the wealthy (SAT classes, piano lessons, tutors, etc.). There are poor white people.
I think race-based affirmative action further supports the assumption that minorities need extra help.
ngailk 1 year ago
I think that affirmative action should favor people of poorer socio-economic backgrounds. That would diversify the student body the most and that would help account for those who didn't have all the privileges of the wealthy (SAT classes, piano lessons, tutors, etc.). There are poor white people.
I think race-based affirmative action further supports the assumption that minorities need extra help.
ngailk 1 year ago
If I ever need a risky surgical procedure I sure as hell would want the best surgeon possible and not necessarily the most diverse. Thus I know if a young white dude is my doctor, he probably has gotten there on his own merits. Just sayin
AlexClinkenbeard 1 year ago 9
@AlexClinkenbeard yeah, like why would i want brain surgery from dr. ben carson! he's a black guy!
hollaboutit 4 months ago
@AlexClinkenbeard Not if his daddy pulled strings to get him there. Just saying.
dr1980 4 months ago in playlist Justice with Michael Sandel
@AlexClinkenbeard and yet studies show no difference in performance between those two doctors. Affirmitive action is not letting in the sub-standard. It is letting in people handicapped by their background. They are smart, but not challenged and inspired. AA gives them a shot, a shot that many of them take and run with.
majinspy 4 months ago
@majinspy How are they handicapped by their background on TESTS? They are less qualified.
InternationalRabbit 4 months ago
@InternationalRabbit Well they went to schools that were no where near the quality of their white counterparts. Raw intelligence won't get you too far on most tests. Don't believe me? Try taking a Chinese college application test. You may be smart, but you haven't been educated in Chinese so, you're done. Black students, on the whole, are at a huge disadvantage in the education world. Combine this with white networking and favortism / nepotism, and there is a strong case for affirmative action.
majinspy 4 months ago
@majinspy blacks aren't the only disadvantaged. What of my ancestors from the Ozarks (read poor rednecks), or my other ancestors that came from the Cherokee tribe?
davekeays 2 months ago
@majinspy I don't know about affirmative action in school enrolments, but that wasn't true with a similar program that is near my heart- American Disability Act in the work place. I've heard that employment numbers went down for the handicap with the ADA, and I know we are now seen as even more of a burden to the employer. Sorry but government trying to balance the scales has hurt me too much for me to agree with affirmative action.
davekeays 2 months ago
@davekeays How has the government hurt you? I'd be curious to here. Poor white people can be discriminated against. However this can be hidden without too much effort and doesn't carry near the stigma being black does. In this country, "whiteness" is a real social construct. There was never a Jim Crow for poor whites. Blacks were specifically attacked and hurt by our government for the purpose of oppressing them. The government attempting to fix that will be imperfect....and necessary.
majinspy 2 months ago
I just Kant take Hannah's arguments seriously.
Silverlight777 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Silverlight777
you cant take the truth
ilovejeremy385 10 months ago
@ 21:02 Sandel speaks about the Chewbacca Defense during the so called Bacci (short for Chewbacca) Case. Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?
GerhardSchroeder 1 year ago
Hannah is pretty hot.
fredrickdgl 1 year ago 4
Comment removed
fredrickdgl 1 year ago
the topic with Hannah is the sign, that the Harvard Uni is a kind of political enterprise and has nothing to do with the KNOWLEDGE
In communist countries there were Universities of Marxism and Leninism and she would perfectly suit it. And later she would be a party aparatchik
Hannah, if you hear me, please DO NOT GO THIS WAY !
Please, listen to Vladimir Bukowski. He said about this kind of system "I have lived in your future, and it didn't work"
Please, please, Hannah, change your mind
Ultimathule13 1 year ago 4
what's this thing that hannah is wearing at 29:58?
LeoLeoni13 1 year ago
@LeoLeoni13 - the newest version of iPod ?
Ultimathule13 1 year ago
@Ultimathule13 why is she listening to ipod in class?
LeoLeoni13 11 months ago
12:22 is a good answer to the question. danielle's answer pwns hannah's
felix242 1 year ago
Asian sugar babies # lushfmlk.info#
shinaley 1 year ago
55 min...
F1Masteruk 1 year ago
hannah is a complete moron.
lawlroy 1 year ago
@lawlroy No no no no, all views are put forth on the table regardless of the fact that some, Hannah's in your opinion is "idiocy". Do not belittle that which you disagree with, no matter how the argument is put forth, state your opposition and support reasonable debate.
DroidNoir 1 year ago
@DroidNoir ad hominem ftw
lawlroy 1 year ago
Hannah is hot.
nwojewoda 1 year ago
22:15, by extension, Harvard could admit ONLY black or ONLY white students, because whether or not we find that to be qualities on which admission should be based is irrelevant. Harvard sets the standard.
You can understand maybe that I find this argument to be unconvincing
JFSOCC 1 year ago
9:00.
I'm not responsible for the crimes my father committed.
JFSOCC 1 year ago
@fletchaurason... slippery slope buddy.
ConstantlyDirty 1 year ago
Fuck you Aristotle. Your reasoning just creates stagnation.
First, how do you judge what the proper purpose of an object is? Especially if it's something more generally useful than a flute. What is the purpose of water? To drink? To wash? To be used in manufacture? Which purpose is best? How can you possibly assign this value.
Second, you're creating a situation in which no one is rewarded or even allowed to find alternate uses for a previously established object or idea.
Raichon 1 year ago
Lol @ 4:38, the black guy at the front row raised his arm in support of AA and the guy next to him just continued to stare.
Sk82beast 1 year ago
@Sk82beast How's that funny?
StevenThePhilosopher