whisky review 218 - keeping open Whisky bottles fresh

[WhoWhatWhenAndWhere]

Any thoughts on what the argon and nitrogen are doing? Presumably, just spraying into the bottle C02 is inadequate. But why?

Also, regarding the vacuum stopper. After vacuuming, I put a few layers of plastic food wrap over the stopper, wrap the excess tightly and secure it with a rubber band. I imagine it works to prevent any air from getting back into the bottle. (I have not tested to see how well this works.)

[ralfystuff]

@WhoWhatWhenAndWhere

the argon and nitrogen provide gaseous stability, ... I'm told !

[havisFin]

Any knows about Lagavulin 12yo + wine preserve inert gas experiment?

And wht about that BankRowBurn, was it successfull mix of malts?

[ralfystuff]

@havisFin

Bankrowburn still to be reviewed !  ... still 'maturing'

[Elementecho]

What about those air removing sealed tops you can use with wine bottles? the ones that you pump out the air. Have you tried one of those?

[ralfystuff]

@Elementecho

yes I have ! .... the vacuum fades after a few weeks, gas is better !

[PolInHM]

If the main problem is the oxygen in the volume of air above the whiskey oxidizing the "yummy" compounds in the liquid, how about adding glass marbles to the bottle as you drink? They're inexpensive, reusable, and this would let you keep it all in the original bottle. Toward the end, a strainer might be necessary. What do you think, Ralfy?

[Arnoud1987000]

Or start your own blending from different Whiskeys LOL

[StumpyJoeJr]

Good stuff as always Ralfy. I think using gas is certainly the way to go. As a homebrewer I have a tank of CO2 on hand so I can use it for such a purpose. That or pure nitrogen would work just as well as the special mix (which is a similar mixture to what welders use).

[havisFin]

As I am one sad old perfectionist (and engineer, oh dear me!), I just had an idea to solve this 'keeping whisky fresh' issue. Get yourself a bunch of small bottles that each hold just enough whisky for one drum when filled up. And move the content of opened 0.7 bottle to these 'single-drum' bottles, filled to the top. This way you don't have to leave half-empty bottles, just use one single-drum-bottles per drum. Only drawback is that it takes a heck of a single-drum-bottle stock to do this!!!

[100percentNatural100]

Have you tried putting marbles in the whisky bottle so it raises the levels so less air gets at the whisky? Bad idea?

[herbsolo]

@100percentNatural100 works perfectly, but makes pouring yourself a glass difficult. Also, with a few bottles open, you'll need quite a few marbles;)

Also, there's a lot of whisky sticking to the marbles, when your bottle gets empty - what a waste.

[PolInHM]

@100percentNatural100 I should have read further down before I posted (just) the same idea! Have you tried the marble idea yet?

[100percentNatural100]

@PolInHM No i have not tried it but heard of people doing it. Would like to know what ralfy thinks about this idea!

[apollon440]

Ralfy, one thing I don't get is why the oxygen apparently harms the whisky more in a bottle than in a cask. I mean, in the cask, there's also plenty of oxygen, and it's continuously becoming more!

[ralfystuff]

@apollon440

a good question, . . . whilst in the cask the oxygen content of the vessel is in fact oxidising the spirit but generally at a slower rate due to strength of alcohol and also as part of the intrinsic maturation of the spirit. So oxidisation in bottles can break down matured spirit but in a cask can assist developing maturing spirit.

[FreddyTheJumpingCat]

1 viewer is a big fan of Ardbeg.

[MrMariusroyal]

This looks like a great product! I really don't like to pour my nice expensive whisky in an ugly bottle to preserve it. The money you spend on the whisky goes towards the bottling and fancy packaging anyway. I have seen this product on the selves at the market in the wine isles before so I'm sure this stuff will catch on once more people start acknowledging it.

[pdk60]

I've used wine vaccum pump stoppers that have maintained the vacuum for months, so I wouldn't rule them out entirely; I guess some can be better than others.

[tormodiv]

Thanks a lot for this review. Very informative (as usual)

Regarding pouring the golden liquid over to small bottles as you're doing at 7:30 I have a found a small stainless steel funnel (designed for hip flasks) to be very helpful.

Problem is to find them in the stores (at least where I live) - but on eBay you'll find anything - including this. And they are almost free also, costing less than a dollar delivered. Highly reommended

(ebay keywords: stainless steel for funnel flask)

[TheBeebopper]

@tormodiv A funnel is not required if the bottle from which the liquor is poured is rested upon the bottle to which it is received. The pouring bottle is inclined from a hand cupping the base and the nack may be stabilised using the fingers of the other hand.  Once the two bottle necks are together, the rest is easy.

[TheBeebopper]

Tapered corks for home brewers and winemakers fit the standard 31mm crown capped beer, tonic and juice bottles. I like J2O bottles best for appearance, but any small glass mixer, juice or beer bottle will do. Fit a screwed eye(with string loop) to the cork if it goes in too far. If you want to leave something for decades, ram the cork home and and fit a crown cap over it. Lambic beers come with a larger cork and sometimes a cap and you may replace this with a cork from a malt bottle.

[TheBeebopper]

@TheBeebopper Ha ha, got those sizings wrong. The standard bottle neck is smaller, around an inch or 26mm, it's the Lambic beers and Champagne bottles which use the 31mm cap. The standard crown caps are easily found at homebrew suppiies as are simple cheap cappers although I'd be wary of using thin bottles with an impact capper.

[TheBeebopper]

@TheBeebopper Just found that a Glen Moray cork fits a J2O bottle tightly and is an acceptable fit for a lightweight pilsener bottle.

[roaldarne]

Hello Ralfy! Love your reviews! I just bought me a can of 'wine preserver' for my whiskies. But it got me thinking... Will the 'wine preserver' also kill some of the nose when you pour yourself a glass? Won't the Co2 also follow into the glass and coat the whisky in the glass?

[ralfystuff]

@roaldarne

I don't think so because you can blow off any possible residual CO2 in your glass.

[knarfzxc]

To keep my bottles fresh. I use the same technique as I do with my carboys when making ale.

I drop sterilised, rinsed, and dry marbles into the whisky displacing the volume of air, thus raising the level so it stays in the narrowest part of the neck below the stopper cork; almost as it it was never opened. Of course there is a point usually the last 1/3rd. when you're simply filtering the whisky through marbles, then you ought to finish the bottle.

[mtpylkka11]

Another video gem from Ralfy.

[whiskychops]

As a Ph.D candidate in Organic Chemistry (not to be confused with pharmacology), I found this vlog super funny. Chemically-wise, it all made sense. I'll try this with Connemara and Tyrconnell 10yo. I want to see if the peat will overcome Tyrconnell's subtle and short finish. Also, I have enrolled friends and we are devising an item with you in mind... stay tune for something very cool in 2 months or so... ;)

[havisFin]

Ralfy, I've noticed that you tend to leave the bottle breathe for a while when you taste it. Maybe that's ok if you finish the bottle in a short period of time. But doesn't the bottle get enough air even without that? For sure it'll get plenty of air by the time it's finished, even if the cork is closed as soon as possible. And if it takes a long time before next tasting, all extra "open time" is a drawback.

[ralfystuff]

@havisFin

the extra 'open time' would be a problem but I am now using a 'wine preserver' inert gas canister to cut down on advanced oxidation.

[herbsolo]

@havisFin Chemist here. Don't you worry about that. As soon as you pour yourself a glass, air gets into the bottle. There's oxygen in the air, so now oxydation is starting. BUT: this is a very slow process, so whether you leave the bottle open for 10 minutes or immediately close it won't make ANY difference oxidation-wise. (It would only make a difference in that time some oxygen was already "used up" by oxidation, which won't be the case)

There's gonna be more change by the whisky evaporating.

[11lightyear]

Ralfy, what about whiskey bars? If u wish to try a new whiskey at the bar and u see a bottle with a little whiskey left in it, it might be risky to buy a dram, as u might not get the best of the spirit. I've kept my HP12 with air in it for 6 - 7 months and it is much worse spirit compared to what it was when i opened it. There is almost no peat left in the finish. I think maybe it would be a good idea, to pour the whole bottle into miniatures of let's say 50 ml. to keep it fresh.

[ralfystuff]

@11lightyear

you make a good point here, it is not a good idea to buy near-finished bottle whiskies in a Bar unless you know there is rapid sales of the whisky.

[degmar]

Here's a few ideas - go make a million!

1 - Insert a balloon and blow it up, displacing the air. You'd have to find a non-reactive material though.

2 - Buy some hollow glass beads and drop them in. They'll float to the top and form a barrier between the alcohol and the air.

[ralfystuff]

@degmar

good ideas but I doubt it would create a fortune.

[inuyashaspet]

I bought some Vacu Vin "winesaver" vacuum pumps that I use for my sake, which is probably the most sensitive type of brew I have ever seen. I pour myself a glass and immediately vacuum it up. This way, the last sip is as good as the first. Try it with your whisky, everyone!

[Ungart404]

Ralfy, I've heard you talk about screw caps sealing bottles just as well or even better than corks do. I'm sure plastic ones are fine, but what about metal ones? I imagine they might warp slightly when opened and thus not maintain as perfect a seal. What's your take on this?

[ralfystuff]

@Ungart404

metal caps will work if they are both strong enough and also plastic-coated inside to prevent metal alloy tainting the alcohol. Marketing consultants are always looking for new, exotic ways to seal bottles including wax, one-way valves and stoppers, however, cork and screw tops remain the most practical option.

[MrBlootered]

Hi Ralfy. I've seen a reference to 'old bottle effect' possibly having an influence on a whisky from the 1970's.

Could you tell we what 'old bottle effect' is, how it comes about and how you might discern if a vintage bottle of malt was affected by it?

[ralfystuff]

@MrBlootered

over a long period of time (which varies with storage) spirits will change in the bottle and this is increasingly noticed in generation-tastings of bottles of the same malt or blend with 20 to 30 or more years between bottling., (along with influences of grain, yeast and production changes).

[havisFin]

If I could draw comics, I'd love to draw a strip where you

1. Start to burn oxygen outofa bottle

2. Blow the bottle up

3. After a big smoke cloud fades away (with a very ”smoky & shaky” appearance), calmly give 99 / 100 Malt marks with comments ”...wau, this I would call a peat bom”

[k0200679]

Hello Ralfy. Could you remind me what was your recomended brand of whisky glasses ?

[ralfystuff]

@k0200679

glencairn.

[neilprague]

Very informative as usual Ralfy, thanks for posting !

[Sydtrack]

Hello Ralfy. I live in a very hot country, where average temperature at night is 26ºC. I do love Whisky, but sometimes it makes me sweat. I know that cooling the whisky weakens it's smell, but is that true even on higher temperatures? I don't use ice nor stones, but I was thinking about using cold water (around 10ºC) instead of room temperature water. That would cool my whisky to about 20 to 22ºC, and wouldn't numb my palates. Would that be wise or will it just kill my whisky?

[ralfystuff]

@Sydtrack

I will have to try and see how it works, finding a good balance of flavour and cool.

Try sipping cool water along with your whiskies.

[Roessliginger]

After your advertisement of Private Preserve demand will be soaring and price will go up even more.

[ralfystuff]

@Roessliginger

I hope not !  .... someone will notice demand and possibly come out with a cheaper option.

[chrish12345]

Maybe its me but I think that lesser peated/smoky whiskies get more peaty with oxidisation. I'm thinking of things like Highland Park, Clynelish and Longrow CV - for maybe the first few weeks the peat/smoke can appear non-existant, but after that it seems to find its way through to the surface.

[Silverswordfish]

I prefer Ardbeg, Talisker and Lagavaulin (personal favorite) after a little oxidation, They soften a little and have a slightly more vanilla element to them. The first dram is much more rough.

Although a 15 minute rest in the glass and a bit of body warmth also help.

[aphasia2]

ralfy have you tried mackillops choice whiskys?is it quality?have you tried the mackillops ben nevis 18 on 58%?

[ralfystuff]

@aphasia2

Like all Indi bottlers standards are mixed to choose carefully.  I don't know about the BN, try WhiskyBase

[loopslive1]

Thanks for another great vid, Ralfy! I've also noticed that oxidisation seems to have helped some of my single malts 'settled down' and unfold their flavours much better after the bottles have been opened! Although I must say, none of my bottles are currently missing more than 25% volume. Therefore I wanted to ask, at which point would you recommend decanting/spray-treating/etc. a bottle? When it's about half-empty? Earlier? Later? Thanks!

[riveness]

We use this method for keeping liquid chemicals that need to be stored in an inert atmosphere (if we wish to have the ressure in the continer at atmospheric pressure). We generally bubble the CO2 slowly through the bottom of the liquid.

[77anorak]

Trying to hide that nifty remote camera controller at the end 'eh Ralfy =)

[ralfystuff]

@77anorak

yes, ... and failed !

[ratedAD]

Hey Ralfy, Malt-Matador here.

So how many bottles of whisky do you have at home anyway?

Inspired by your videos, I have started building a small collection of my own. Ardbeg 10yo and Aberlour A'bunah to name a couple of the better ones I have at home right now.

[ralfystuff]

@ratedAD

several thousand, ... for drinking over the next 100 years !

[havisFin]

@ralfystuff You lucky hamster :)

[friendoflaphoroaig]

You're the best Ralfy!!

[zeusminator]

Ralphy I've noticed that bourbon and japanese whisky improved flavour and nose

as volume dicrease,

do you think is possible? and do you think scoth malt is different in that way?

Finally i suggest a name for your new blend, "Frankensburn 10 yo".

[antipodesman]

CO2 being heavier than air, a funnel and a candle should quickly displace all the O2 in a bottle without tainting flavour.

[MrJoris0123]

weird I did not know such thing existed ! By the way, I must admit I'm not familiar with the springbank hazelburn longrow range. But if you blend one, do you blend even what? I mean, blennding peat with citrus and another very sweet whisky, isn't that going to taste very horrible?

[ralfystuff]

@MrJoris0123

so far the taste is excellent because all three are flavour-related by being from one Distillery.

[peyrolas]

ralfy - what i do as an experiment. i pour last dram of a bottle in another bottle and slowly but surely this "blended" bottle keeps filling up. as i drink almost only islay whiskey i guess i do not have to worry that the new blended whiskey could not fit due to the mix i do. i must even say, i tasted lately a bit to see what it is all about. it tasted just gREAT! but yeah, i might use this argon stuff on it.

what do you think of my idea?

[ralfystuff]

@peyrolas

sounds like a good idea you have there.

[mu99ins]

Argon is 25% heavier than air, so the CO2 is blanketed by the Argon. Further research reveals that CO2 is produced during fermentation, which is very whisky related. We exhale 1 kg of CO2 per day. Dry ice is CO2. Pop Rocks candy give off CO2. The belch from drinking a carbonated beverage is CO2. CO2 is soluble in water, and according to Wikipedia, CO2 makes wine slightly fizzy, so N2 or Argon are preferred by professional wine makers. Not much water in whisky, though.

[crimson639]

great episode, probably gonna get myself that preserver

[bonheurbrun]

what would you blend talikser with?

[zeusminator]

@bonheurbrun

hello bonheurbrun, the answer is in whisky review 94, with caol ila he says.....1/3, 2/3

[ralfystuff]

@bonheurbrun

caol Ila and also Isle of Jura for starters !

[vilainkikinou]

great!!!!



[ralfystuff]

@havisFin

absolutely no idea what the problem could be. Check out water, storage place, anyone tampering and any medication your on.

[havisFin]

@ralfystuff right'eou! (is that even close?) Anyway, inspired by this clip I've decided that in the future for each bottle I'll tape the cork the way you did with your experimental bottlings. Hope it helps to keep these precious aromas a bit longer :) And being perfectionist, I'll try to choose such electric tape that matches the color of the cork ;)

[havisFin]

Hi Ralfy. It it oxydisation or something else that has made some of my half-empty whisky bottles quite bitter and sharp tasting? e.g my so lovely Lagavulin 16 yo became so disappointilngle bitter that i almoust throw the rest of it to nevada!

The first half was ok, but after about 3-4 months the rest of the laga was a disaster.

[MrRookie86]

Hi Ralfy,

What about vacuum containers used in kitchen?

[ralfystuff]

@MrRookie86

tend to be plastic so not suitable long term.

[minesascotch]

Great ideas Ralfy as always, have been thinking of trying to make my own blend, you have given me the kick I need and will now give it a go thank you.

[FinnFin2]

I hope we will hear the review of the LongHazelBank -whisky

[chrish12345]

I thought the one thing we had to be proud of in England was our po-faced chemist shop staff, but you can normally persuade them to give up a couple of their precious bottles as long as you say you are going to piss in them.

[crthebigo]

You scared me sticking that lighter in your HP bottle.. isn't there a high chance you could burn off some off the alcohol doing something like that? Personally I'd give that experiment a miss.

Also, I don't really mind the effects of oxidisation on some whiskies. There are a lot of bottles I've had that have actually improved as the volume reduced. I find it helps the whisky mellow out more or can help reduce some harshness of younger spirits. But as you said, it can also reduce flavour.

[shuboy05]

@crthebigo

You are going to burn off some of the alcohol hence why Ralfy only stuck the lighter in for a short duration. However I don't think this method is safe with higher proof whisky (for example George T Stagg bourbon is often around 70% alcohol by volume, I would say sticking a lighter in there is a bad idea).

[Temperdgrump]

This was a very informative, nice vid ralfy. Let us know how the lagavulin turns out. The malt & blended treasure hunt part was funny, made me think of my brother. =)

[nbs90]

Good tips, used the blending one and decanter myself, so far all my blends have been a great succes. So I can only recommend doing that, can't wait for your review on the blended you did :)!

[dvdbloke]

hiya, loving the whisky reviews! thank you! Quick question please? I have a Lagavulin 16 and Talisker 10 I bought just over 10 years ago, unopened. I know these do not usually age in the bottle, but wondered if they have any other interest value to them based on changes in quality/taste to the bottles from today? And therefore coming to the conclusion on if I should keep them as is, or get drinking?! :) I actually bought a new bottle of Talisker a few weeks ago instead of opening this one!

[ouwezeeman1]

@dvdbloke Those bottles have some value, but now you can do the test and compare the old bottle with the new one without splashing the cash ;)

Also, it is believed that bottle aging does exist for whisky. It only takes a much longer time than wine. Check on the site of the malt maniacs e-pistle2009/02

[ralfystuff]

@ouwezeeman1

I agree that spirits 'age' in bottles over time.

[ralfystuff]

@dvdbloke

If you taste both Taliskers, the older one will probably be better. Keep your collection for special moments ... then enjoy drinking !

[fasterischead]

Good advice all, as always! One problem: I now have a small fleet of 4oz whisky sample bottles that I don't know what to do with.

There is another option for dealing with near-empty bottles, slightly off-the-topic: if you're down to 1/4 of a bottle or so, finish the damn thing! At Chateau de Fasterisc, near-empties become my house malts. And I've got a special place set aside for them at the front of the cupboard, so's that I don't forget!

[ralfystuff]

@fasterischead

excellent stuff !

[BrothuhV84]

Very Interesting subject Ralfy! We don't want to rush our whisky and alternatively we don't want our whisky to fade over time.