IQ2 Debate: "Europe is failing its Muslims" - Audience Q&A2. (5 of 6)

[Ticklytinker]

That Irish guy is hilarious.

"I'm Irish...i moved to England...I was Catholic...i became Muslim. ...i lost a lot of friends. ...but, on the other hand, i gained a lot of new Muslim friends. ...then i came out as Gay. ...i lost my new Muslim friends. ...but i gained a lot of Gay friends! Yay!

...now i have HIV."

[Craigipedia]

the guy at @ 3:50 is exactly right... if 16 million Americans just showed up all of a sudden in the UK it would be an immediate freak out (I live here, the Evangelicals are freaks)

[Craigipedia]

LOL, oh I love the "arguments from the Quran". We don't want to read your book BECAUSE HOLY BOOKS DON'T DICTATE HOW OUR GOVERNMENTS AND SOCIETIES WORK. Fuck your holy book and fuck Muhammad. Fuck Jesus. They died 1400 and 2000 years ago. we shouldn't look to either of them, any of them, for our modern lives. Stop telling me to read your fucking book I SHOULDN'T FUCKING HAVE TO

[AllahkaDost1]

they need a person like Dr zakir naik. but i know they will enver invite him bez they will be shut up by knowing the reality.

[125RTY]

tariq said, a woman doesn't have to wear the islamic dress because this dress is an act of faith. you get? this idiot is saying in a cloaked way that ok if you don't wear th eislamic dress you are no longer muslim you are an apostate and then other muslims will punish you. this tariq is a tricky bastard.

[RobGoth100]

03:38 Moronic moral equivalence with no basis in reality.

[DontYouHateMondays]

To summarize the problem:

Western society members are very critic

Muslims aren't that critic than western society members / aren't at all

If you're mother tells you, the world is a plate, you'd believe her rather than a stranger, who says the exact opposite, if you dont think about it / if you're not critic, right?

[redarrowhead]

They forgot to mention that multiculturalism is garbage because it does nothing to HELP the society. It only creates problems.

[kriztufer2001]

8:28 nice

[princeairboy]

pity u douglas!

[Vexed34]

They needed campaigns against forced marriage? I'd say the question for debate should be "Is Europe failing Europeans?"

[ireallylovethisworld]

@Vexed34 exactly! i would like to see that kind of debate...

[DrunkAtheist]

Wow. What a pleasant surprise to see Oliver Kamm there at the end!

[rollotwomassey]

At 3:50- there would not even be this debate [esp. with THIS question] if 16 million American evangelicals emigrated to Britain and were politically and religiously proselytizing- the British intellectual, academic and media class would savage them in a way not even imaginable with British Muslims.

[hurma056]

there is right for woman in islam, Iam a woman in islam and for me I have all the right I need and want , so it is really not my concern if non muslim think there is no right in islam for woman, you dont value what we think about your so call right for woman so why should we value you view on the choice we made for our life. in islam there s right and duties for both man and woman, but so call modern society only care about their right not their duties! have your life lets us have ours!

[sirjambo]

@hurma056

Are you deficient?

Isnt the witness of a woman equal half of that of a man? The women said, Yes. He said, This is because of the deficiency of the womans mind." Bukhari vol.3 book 48

Your rights in islam is to be stupid.

Stay ignorant deficient and stupid islam depends on it.

Narrated Usama bin Zaid:

The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

If you call being stupid a right then you do have that right!

[hurma056]

@sirjambo.iam not making excuse, just explaining a point of view! all the time we are told we dont accept the view of other, who is not accepting that some people choose different thing for they life, weare told we insult people when we tell them they way of life is lost but who is telling the other one they are stupid, because we dont agree on something! I myself able to live and b friend with people who have totaly different view on life, i think their way is not 4 me & my way is not for them

[hurma056]

what in your worls is efficient? people who only go your way and share ur views, so what shall we do for the rest, shall we kill them all?,& what about people who are stupid or deficient bcause of some mental problem what shall we do with them? since it seem that only people that you view as non deficient have the right to live?

[sirjambo]

There are NO rights in islam for women that can't be easily taken away by any muslim man!

The muslima was and is deficient!

[hurma056]

there is right for woman in islam, Iam a woman in islam and for me I have all the right I need and want , so it is really not my concern if non muslim think there is no right in islam for woman, you dont value what we think about your so call right for woman so why should we value you view on the choice we made for our life. in islam there s right and duties for both man and woman, but so call modern society only care about their right not their duties! have your life lets us have ours!

[hurma056]

on your message about witness and woman defiency! nothing to do with the deficiency you think! woman tend to be more emotional and follow their emotions, as a general rules. and why the second hadith you quote there is no clear reference!?iam soory there is false hadith. Islam recognise the nature of man and woman, your society ignore it! and look how well is going? just get over it we are muslim and there is more of us everyday by birth or by converting! your life our life!!

[sirjambo]

@hurma056

Keep making excuses, you deficiency is showing with every sentence you write.

Your beloved profit would approve.

[hurma056]

! most of people would agree that in general woman have more facility to look after kids it doesnt mean because a man is better as something and a woman better as something it doesnt make one or the other deficient!

[hurma056]

Why do you have to compare them and put a value system on what their roles is, one cant exciste properly without the other one, each have their roles as inportant as each other. it's not my problem if your society doesnt value a man working hard too earn momey( as well as keeping is family happy) and a woman working hard to keep the whole of the familly happy (husband and kids). It's your society who told woman that they should feel ashame of being mum and housewife!what 's the shame in that?

[hurma056]

I accept that people have different view than me ! but there is one things I have(not talking 4 other muslim) and you dont is respect and the capacity not to insult people, iam glad iam view as deficient by someone like you!

[sirjambo]

@hurma056

Muhammad declared that women are "deficient in intelligence and religion."

"Narrated Abu Saiid Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, Isnt the witness of a woman equal half of that of a man? The women said, Yes. He said, This is because of the deficiency of the womans mind." Bukhari vol.3 book 48

I should tell you that I am not another prophet even though I agree with him that you are deficient.

No need to worship me.

[hurma056]

again this storie! I did explain b4, I just leave it there! insult people if you find it funny good for you! You dont even know me or what I do? But do you realise you actually call deficient millions of woman in the world that are sometime mothers or doctor, teachers nurse, writer etc etc!!! if you judge a all group of people as deficient ,i think you are the deficient one! anyway i feel sorry for people like you bcos it must really annoyed you than there is more and more people converting!

[sirjambo]

@hurma056

What part about the hadith did you not get?

Here it is again;

"Narrated Abu Saiid Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, Isnt the witness of a woman equal half of that of a man? The women said, Yes. He said, This is because of the deficiency of the womans mind." Bukhari vol.3 book 48

No it does not bother me that MOST people in the world are dumb and stupid like the muslims. Especially the deficient muslimas.

[sirjambo]

@hurma056 "tell me what make you so special that i should take your world and your interpretation for the truth!"

My interpretation?

Is that how you see it?

All I'm telling you is that islam and more importantly your beloved profit say you are nothing more than a domesticated animal. Even a child knew that.

Aisha said "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs." Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490

Keep looking for different "interpretations" if it makes you feel better to ignore the obvious!

[simroto]

@sirjambo You cut the quote to manipulate the meaning and make it look the way you want. After Prophet died, a man said that "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman" and Aisha contradicted him by "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. [...].". Your manipulation of the authentic text proves only your bad intentions. (for readers) Google Volume 1, Book 9 and read 490 & 493 by urselves, instead of t-up a lie

[sirjambo]

@simroto YOU are the liar. Where do you get " After Prophet died"?

Aisha was talking to the PROFIT!

He is the one that made women equal to dogs and we can see that TODAY in islam.

Just because she wanted to ridicule the profit doesn't make HIS words about women go away.

Remember she also said once " It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire. "

Why would she say something like YOUR LORD?

Did she BELIEVE in the same allah?

[sirjambo]

@hurma056

Your welcome!

[hurma056]

we dont worship muhammed by the way!like i said b4 we are glad u find us deficient! I find u deficient ,you find me deficient, so what next, you kill us all or we kill you all? do you think it's going to change anything to talk down to people like that, we know the hadiths ,we have google search too LOL! You dont understand our choices,Idont understand yours! So what?If only human were capable to accept that people make their own choice & it's nobody business & to respect without being insulting

[hurma056]

Sorry I write 2 much. But the hadith u refer to,talk about witnessing so to come to the conclusion that islam see woman as deficient because in one matter it was say in a hadith is a very simple explanation, it was say for that case not in general! u have the right not 2 agree. After allah and the prophet ,the mother( a woman) is the one who deserve the most respect! it is say that heaven is at the fee of your mother(a woman).

[sirjambo]

@hurma056

You may have a comprehension problem.

It's OK that is not your only problem it seems.

[dmlauffer]

oliver kamm hit it on the money

[hurma056]

Most of muslim in the uk are happy to live here because there is a great freedoom and respect from british people in general! myself I am french converted to islam and feel more at home in london than in my country because of the respect i get here!, most muslim are happy to live in the uk and obey the laws, they just want to live &let live but somehow the media only give the chance for those muslim who ll say things that sell paper!in order to generate that fear of muslim.

[Afrobeat100]

@hurma056

Well, there's something to be said for putting in the papers when people are constantly threatened or killed , right ? As we speak another assasination has taken place in Lahore. Flemming Rose was protected during this debate, and the list of killings is becoming endless....Muslims should be judged by their deeds, not by their words, and apologetic support for jihadists or ignoring violence is definitely not what we need...

[hurma056]

I aggree judge the one who did the deed..

Dont judge the muslim as a all if you do so, you do excatly what the so call jihadist do they put the all non muslim in the same basket for them as long as you are a western you agree with the killing of muslim around the world! What you want me to do as a french muslim about what happen in Lahore!? And the list of iraqi killed and afgans.the things is nobody care when we die!

[Afrobeat100]

I didnt see massive protests in the streets when Benazir Bhutto was killed, neither did I when Najibullah was hanged by the Taliban, when Sadat was killed or when Saddam Hussein slaughtered his own people, or against the Algerian civil war initiated by jihadists.

Let me get this straight: nobody holds peaceful muslims accountable for this, but it should be in the news and it should be seen for what it is: a very serious threat to our society.

[hurma056]

But why you refer to them straight away as muslim! why you dont say Pakistany, iraqui, afgan, or algerians! When a european do something, nobody say A catholic did that or christian did that, no for that you no how to make the difference! but when it's about muslim. exemple Saddam hussein happened to be born muslim but nothing he did was about religion always as been about power but yet we refer to him as muslim, just refer to him as a mad iraqui!it's part of the game to creat the fear of us!

[hurma056]

Western power and apologise for viloence when they like gaza, lebanon , does anybody care about the chinese muslim being wipe out, the west want us to believe that they care so much about the well being of human! they care when they want to! so what make them an authority on what is good violence or bad violence? i dont support jihadist or western power actions by war for me they are all as crazy as each other! and have so much in commun since both side are conviced 2 b right!

[hurma056]

on the media things... 2morow i could take a camera and make a tour of england find the most stupid non muslim brithish around and make a reportage and say to the world this is england, Would it be fair! but it's what media are doing with muslim selecting few to make it as a generality!

[Afrobeat100]

You dont need to , because it is done daily by others. There is an enormous amount of critique in Europe on Israel , China and whatever. There is no Islamic country in the world where self-critique like that is possible. Try defending Israel in an Arabic country and you're dead. Try to convert people to Christianity and you're dead. I can't even go to Mecca if I wanted to. You neither by the way-not on your own at least....

[hurma056]

Critics it's easy but it doesnt do anything if a muslim country did just 10% of what israel do ,Oh my god you ll see all the army of the free world there! many muslim critics oppression but when we jut critics we are told it's not enough,but for europe to critics israel it's enought! Try to say your aigains occupation in israel and u get jail just for saying it! but who care, when it's muslim!

[hurma056]

Defending Israel! Iam from britanny at some point in the past my ancestor lived in england does it give the right to the all of britanny people to come here and get you out of your house, and tell you from now it's our land! and if we stay there 50 years ,does staying somewhere 50 years will make what we did right? Iam not for the killing of anybody,if you ask me israel shouldnt excist in the first place! ok they suffer give them germany, what palestinian had to do with there suffering?

[hurma056]

I am muslim , i know i cant go mecca on my own thank you! I have no problem with that, everything as a reason even if for you is nonsens for us is our faith! You want to go mecca! you might have the right to go if the west didnt protect the royal familly, islam forbide royalty if muslim had there way they ll be out!dont blame us for oppressing regime you are sponsoring in order to get your oil!

[MrPAKISTANArmy]

What is the religion of thoses americans and Britishers are responsible for 600000 killings of muslims(after9/11) They are christians and Jews.

The westerns have lived only 50 years of prosperity. And think that they are the most cultural and moral people lived for thousands of year. Before that they are buchering people of India, australia, africa, china.

They are afraid of Purity of Islam. Yes for those who declared themself of the enemy of Islam there activities must be countered.

[hurma056]

But in the world now ther is no one country who is a real muslim country for us european muslim to go to, their only puppet governement appointed by you, exemple saudi arabia, THERE S NO KING IN ISLAM, you want us out let us created our khalifa, but you ll never allow that for the simple resons that it s in muslim land that you have what you need to survive! and your aim it's too make sure that it s never in muslim hand !!!

[hurma056]

there is no tactics! for it to have a tactics you would need to have a leader and in islam there is no leader!....what u going to do to stop it kill people who convert! if you dont want islam in europe very simple, get out of muslim countries, let them drive themself with out interfering, learn to live without their oil etc. and welcome all the people who dont want to live under muslim rules to your country.

[72faithfree]

b4 islam eats all societies and countries please visit below sites and learn the tactics of this beast and help to kill it.

faithfreedomDOTorg

jihadwatchDOTorg

thereligionofpeaceDOTcom

islam-watchDOTorg

peace

[RobGoth100]

The Irishman, who became a muslim and then came out as gay is very confused. Better leave the pub and sleep it off.

[tdottim]

Spelling seems to be "faling" (sic) in jolly old England at the very least. This whole debate just shows that muslims are NOT willing to look inward and deal with the problems in their own societies. Europe looks like a lost cause.

[iqsquared]

Thanks for pointing that out - very embarrassing!

[CorporalNym]

Respect to the Gay guy!

[MsGLULU]

Yaaaaaaaaa so I was attack by muslims me too, all culture are racist, are you the SAINT VIRGIN MARY ??? Please ! give me a break, I was mistrated by muslims too, so stop it !

[MsGLULU]

Double speech TariQ I dont trust you at all. I dont Belive you !!!!!!!!!! Never trust you. this is not what theya re teaching in Europe, killin Jews or Kouffards etc... Really Dont belive you !

[snips42]

whats with the audience being given a platform to rant without any comeback. how is that adding anything to the debate .oh right i forgot thats how muslims do this sort of thing

[hurma056]

an other things you talk about integrist and extremiste as mad people but when they tell you things about islam you take it at the truth , Why? if you think their are mad, why do you take as truth what a mad person says!? but when a muslim like tell you NO that 's not islam, you just choose to ignore it!WHY ?

[hurma056]

force marriage is not in islam! the sad things is that many muslim country fuse too much their culture to the religion! and often dont know their own religion! you keep claiming your superiority to our back ward religion and yet you can't use your brain to see that the abuse are from the culure not the religion itself! Do u discredit the all concept of democratie because of the way some countries use democratie to rage war!

[Mattyb88ful]

No, forced marriage is not in Islam but misogyny, homophobia, stoning and mutilation is a part of Islam.

[hurma056]

Misogyny? maybee in your view not mine ! you have ur view of what 's the role of woman and man and we have ours! For us is right! for u is not, man and woman in islam are different , they have each a role to play, not one is more inportant than the otherone. Homophobia in islam u cant have sex ou of marriage and marriage is between man and woman, to be gay in islam is wrong as drinking alcool etc etc ,it doesnt mean as a muslim i want to hurt someone who is gay!

[hurma056]

Stoning and mutilation is for a punishement and is more complex than that, there is a lot of condition & regulation and during the prophete time they were very rare things, ! If i tell you that in british society the victims and there familly feelings mean less than the criminals and therefore the british society value criminal! because of some case of missjustice, would it be faire? so is it fair to have a simple anylise of islam like that?

[elindred]

what the hell kindof format is this? It's one thing to have a questions and answers section, but since when did peanut-gallery-participation-p­eriod become an acceptable part of a serious debate? Nevermind that the blabbing whack-a-moles are getting more time than the speakers, encouraging opinionated hotheads to shoot out smug 10 second remarks without risk of being shown you're wrong by a speaker is the ANTITHESIS of what debate and dialogue is about.

[view587]

Tariq if you are campaigning against forced marriage in this century in Europe that just gees to show how far behind on rights of women your religion is and why people think of Islam as backward. You cant possibly accept a nobel prize for it!

[Mehbz]

@view587

uve missed the point. Its not an Islamic concept.

[view587]

What is not an Islamic concept? The veil? or forced marriage! Regardless what Islam is and regardless of all the Interpretations that vary from Jihad, chopping hands and then some say PEACE. you cant deny What is being practised is by Muslims in Europe is extreme. Its not like Asian Islam. European Islam is FAR more dangerous-

[MythF]

Tariq Ramadan is such a brilliant person.. may god bless him!

[Zakbiochem]

@Panosl

what makes you think they are trying to impose their own ideologies?

[exicci]

Islam has indeed brought advances in womens rights. But that was around the time of its inception. Clearly they are lagging behind now.