Excellent analysis of how automation does remove us from the very basics of how we fly aircraft using first principles which have been there since day one.We have very limited opportunity or desire to revert to these basic skills on line flying which quite evidently become apparently consuming when presented with multiple failures of automation.We need to recognise it is just as easy to switch that button off than leave it on and lead us into analysis overload.
What's so difficult about basic P+P=P (Pitch + Power = Performance) when all else fails? This concept was proven to successfully effect a recovery in a simulator.
I have never liked the ideas of so many computers going into an aircraft and especially how the throttles work on modern aircraft, which from what i heard is all electronic now too (ECM??) the over use of comuters in general is depriving humans from mental and physical skill ... I dont think this good and it scares me to think that our children in the future are going to be cabages... almost like that movie The time machine .. where in the future everyones dunced.
@Iamfukenripped i went slightly off topic there, but yeah.. the fact that peoples lives are at stake and the reality of what M Learmount is saying comes through in every sense, is very un-nerving .. and we can only hope that they listen and fix this problem.. and soon.
The AF 447 pilots simply did not recognize the stalled condition. If they would have looked at (and believed) their standby instruments the situation could have been salvaged. The pitch attitude of the 330 was nearly 15 degrees nose up for most of the final 3 minutes of flight. The pilots simply forgot the most basic of all rules - pitch + power = performance. Automation has made today's aircraft safer than ever. The result is a modern airline pilot has become a systems manager / monitor.
The AF 447 pilots simply did not recognize the stalled condition. If they would have looked at (and believed) their standby instruments the situation could have been salvaged. The pitch attitude of the 330 was nearly 15 degrees nose up for most of the final 3 minutes of flight. The pilots simply forgot the most basic of all rules - pitch + power = performance. Automation has made today's aircraft safer than ever. The result is a modern airline pilot has become a systems manager / monitor.
@chinapilot He's a former Royal Air Force pilot and flying instructor so first of all get your facts right. Secondly your comment displays a dangerous attitude whereby you directly correlate a person's skills to their general level of experience.
If I might. . . feedback to the pilot's input. In other words, the airplane does not "talk back" to the pilot. Keep in mind that this is not the case in conventional aircraft. The result is that pilots can easily over-control, especially if they are facing confusing instrument indications. In this instance, the pilot's full-back stick input was likely inadvertent as he waited for the feedback all other aircraft provided. Wish I had more room to address this issue.
I have no problem with this commentary. As an airline pilot for over 25 years and a A-330 captain for about 7, I agree that training, both initial and recurrent is inadequate. Almost all training is done with the automation on, and very little with it off (and virtually none at high altitude, where the aircraft behaves quite differently). What is not addressed here, and is very important, is that the Airbus fly-by-wire control stick offers the pilot absolutely no "feel" or feedback to (cont.)
The author misses one very important point. He assumes that the pilots have become"rusty" from the automation. I would argue that in many of the accidents he references the pilots may have been inexperienced and were never even experienced enough to become "rusty". Two different pilots, one with skills that do degrade without practice and another who never really had the skills to begin with.
David puts the finger on the problem. This was seen clearly with the first accident of the A320 trying to make the low pas in France. Airlines have been rejecting pilots that are more than fifty and with low or not experience with "CRISTAL
COCKPIT" experience and favor young "COMPUTER" wise pilots. In the airlines people making the policies are not pilots , or are pilots with keeping the job mentality and flow with the line that safety is expensive and pilots are to, so lets cut on this.
Forgot the Colgan air Q400 crash, aggravated by icing, but the cause was an incorrect stall recovery. Recurrent pilot training should get back to basics, include some stick time in gliders or Cessnas just remembering things like upset attitude recovery and stall recovery. Remember that Capt Sully was a part-time gliding instructor.
Yes, he is right. To this I would add that the pilots were only skilled and prepared to apply a procedure that is only effective in stall-approaching scenarios, NOT in actual deep stall scenario. Being able to recover control from a stalled plane should be one of the priorities in pilot training.
I think David Learmount puts his fingers into an open wound! I flew the A320 for more than 16 years and I realized that this aircraft is a splendid tool to perform the daily routine of airline business. But the situation is very strange when the system reduces its support because of failures. Even a simple ILS-approach is a challenge because of the display of localizer and glidepath. I practiced during each rotation a raw data ILS-approach just to keep my skills...
I would say that Kenya Airways Flight 507 and to a lesser extent the Turkish Airlines 737 crash at Amsterdam could also be classified as LOC accidents.
af447.typepad.com
kimon1977 1 month ago
hey. its you off air crash investigation :')
iJay842 1 month ago
Excellent analysis of how automation does remove us from the very basics of how we fly aircraft using first principles which have been there since day one.We have very limited opportunity or desire to revert to these basic skills on line flying which quite evidently become apparently consuming when presented with multiple failures of automation.We need to recognise it is just as easy to switch that button off than leave it on and lead us into analysis overload.
BRI535D 2 months ago
Excellent David, keep fighting on our behalf ... and NEVER give in!
aussieontour 4 months ago
What's so difficult about basic P+P=P (Pitch + Power = Performance) when all else fails? This concept was proven to successfully effect a recovery in a simulator.
cboneill 5 months ago
I have never liked the ideas of so many computers going into an aircraft and especially how the throttles work on modern aircraft, which from what i heard is all electronic now too (ECM??) the over use of comuters in general is depriving humans from mental and physical skill ... I dont think this good and it scares me to think that our children in the future are going to be cabages... almost like that movie The time machine .. where in the future everyones dunced.
Iamfukenripped 5 months ago
@Iamfukenripped i went slightly off topic there, but yeah.. the fact that peoples lives are at stake and the reality of what M Learmount is saying comes through in every sense, is very un-nerving .. and we can only hope that they listen and fix this problem.. and soon.
Iamfukenripped 5 months ago
Out of many many articles on the subject, M Learmount is making a lot of sense. thank you, sir !
SoulmateParis 5 months ago
The AF 447 pilots simply did not recognize the stalled condition. If they would have looked at (and believed) their standby instruments the situation could have been salvaged. The pitch attitude of the 330 was nearly 15 degrees nose up for most of the final 3 minutes of flight. The pilots simply forgot the most basic of all rules - pitch + power = performance. Automation has made today's aircraft safer than ever. The result is a modern airline pilot has become a systems manager / monitor.
OlesonMD 5 months ago
The AF 447 pilots simply did not recognize the stalled condition. If they would have looked at (and believed) their standby instruments the situation could have been salvaged. The pitch attitude of the 330 was nearly 15 degrees nose up for most of the final 3 minutes of flight. The pilots simply forgot the most basic of all rules - pitch + power = performance. Automation has made today's aircraft safer than ever. The result is a modern airline pilot has become a systems manager / monitor.
OlesonMD 5 months ago
Ask this guy how much flying he has actually done....NONE!!!
chinapilot 5 months ago
@chinapilot He's a former Royal Air Force pilot and flying instructor so first of all get your facts right. Secondly your comment displays a dangerous attitude whereby you directly correlate a person's skills to their general level of experience.
bravobravo74 4 months ago
If I might. . . feedback to the pilot's input. In other words, the airplane does not "talk back" to the pilot. Keep in mind that this is not the case in conventional aircraft. The result is that pilots can easily over-control, especially if they are facing confusing instrument indications. In this instance, the pilot's full-back stick input was likely inadvertent as he waited for the feedback all other aircraft provided. Wish I had more room to address this issue.
renick01 5 months ago
I have no problem with this commentary. As an airline pilot for over 25 years and a A-330 captain for about 7, I agree that training, both initial and recurrent is inadequate. Almost all training is done with the automation on, and very little with it off (and virtually none at high altitude, where the aircraft behaves quite differently). What is not addressed here, and is very important, is that the Airbus fly-by-wire control stick offers the pilot absolutely no "feel" or feedback to (cont.)
renick01 5 months ago
With all of that technology, looks like we've forgotten Airmanship 101
BidWhiteDude
BigWhiteDude1 5 months ago
Mr. David Learmount is very accurate in his opinion.
reneblanco1 5 months ago
The author misses one very important point. He assumes that the pilots have become"rusty" from the automation. I would argue that in many of the accidents he references the pilots may have been inexperienced and were never even experienced enough to become "rusty". Two different pilots, one with skills that do degrade without practice and another who never really had the skills to begin with.
famcunningham 5 months ago
David puts the finger on the problem. This was seen clearly with the first accident of the A320 trying to make the low pas in France. Airlines have been rejecting pilots that are more than fifty and with low or not experience with "CRISTAL
COCKPIT" experience and favor young "COMPUTER" wise pilots. In the airlines people making the policies are not pilots , or are pilots with keeping the job mentality and flow with the line that safety is expensive and pilots are to, so lets cut on this.
Jetflayer59 5 months ago
Amen!
mi24hind 5 months ago
Forgot the Colgan air Q400 crash, aggravated by icing, but the cause was an incorrect stall recovery. Recurrent pilot training should get back to basics, include some stick time in gliders or Cessnas just remembering things like upset attitude recovery and stall recovery. Remember that Capt Sully was a part-time gliding instructor.
PeetPeeet 5 months ago
status07.blog.com
kimon1977 6 months ago
Yes, he is right. To this I would add that the pilots were only skilled and prepared to apply a procedure that is only effective in stall-approaching scenarios, NOT in actual deep stall scenario. Being able to recover control from a stalled plane should be one of the priorities in pilot training.
Anduril451 6 months ago
I think David Learmount puts his fingers into an open wound! I flew the A320 for more than 16 years and I realized that this aircraft is a splendid tool to perform the daily routine of airline business. But the situation is very strange when the system reduces its support because of failures. Even a simple ILS-approach is a challenge because of the display of localizer and glidepath. I practiced during each rotation a raw data ILS-approach just to keep my skills...
I agree to Learmount!
retipilot 6 months ago
I would say that Kenya Airways Flight 507 and to a lesser extent the Turkish Airlines 737 crash at Amsterdam could also be classified as LOC accidents.
avnavcgm 6 months ago