It's not a LIE here's the scripture 1Thessalonians 4:16-18 speaks on the pre tribulation rapture the catch for being able to actually go with the lord jesus christ is you must be living a 'holy and acceptable life in the eyes of the lord' or then you'll have to be a martyr of the faith in order to get into heaven.This will take place BEFORE the first 3 1/2 year period of false peace once the second 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation period happens it will literally be HELL ON EARTH
People will be drinking and marrying and giving in marriage planting and selling in the Great and Terrible Tribulation? *Peace and Safety then "sudden" destruction* Are we not appointed to wrath? Blessings
@believerinchrist83 - Yes. The "sudden destruction" is the "orge" wrath of God at the Second Coming when Antichrist is destroyed. Check out my blog and the articles mentioned below.
To any pre-trib teachers, I encourage you to check out MidnightWatcher's Blogspot and read through a few of the articles in the "Theology and Eschatology" section, particularly the "Not Appointed Unto Wrath" and "The Revelation of Jesus Christ and the Rapture of the Church" articles. I challenge anyone to refute them.
spiritually or physically? For spiritually He is every where and physically -Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. -The last enemy is death destroyed at His coming , the First resurrection for believers, the dead in Christ rise First, then those that are alive are changed First is always First and my Lord Jesus is a God of order.
English is my second language, if you can't understand about the difference of one group the Bible say it numbered 144,000 and the other Cannot be numbered. I think something wrong some where
@wainadoi1 so the after this is a continuing of the paragraph sealed of tribes of Israel and of all nations' kindreds, people and tongues and in Rev 22:3-4 you read the servants are already sealed when are they sealed when Jesus sent his angels to seal - Rev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
@thetruthimpart Christ said HE will set at the right hand of the Father, until He makes His enemies His footstool. Does that mean He will be in 2 places at once?
@GodsSeer Well you hear of Him visiting people here on earth (He visited me once), taking them on tours to heaven & hell, and walking around in heaven so He's obviously not literally stuck sitting there all the time. So I think He is at the right hand of His Father's throne in terms of rank and position as opposed to sitting there on His throne 24/7/365. What do you reckon?
@mrlantern23 True. He visited John on the Isle of Patmos, in a similitude or vision. The resurrection is not a long drawn out event. It is a day. The dead in Christ will rise FIRST. The Saints who die in the tribulation by beheading, will RISE FIRST, DO NOT BE DECEIVED. That day will NOT come until two things happen. 1. The anti-Christ revealed. 2. The dead in Christ will be resurrected. [When the words, ''DO NOT BE DECEIVED'' are given, THAT IS A POINT WHERE MANY will be deceived.
Revelation 7:4-8 clearly says that 144,000 the angels will seal them with the seal of God is from the 12 tribes of Israel. The reason why they have to have the seal of God so that the wrath of God will not harm them on the days of tribulation.
Revelation 22 you talking about is totaly different thing all together.
@wainadoi1 forgive me should be compare Rev. 7:9-17 and 22:1-5 Rev 22:1 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. - (Sealed) Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7 the vision of all his servants being sealed and Rev, 22 vision of all sealed before His throne
@thetruthimpart Different people Rev 7:1-8 talks about the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel about to face the great tribulation on earth. Rev 7:9- Talks about the church present before the throne, great multitudes.
@wainadoi1 No, I do not see a difference and the Holy scriptures comfirm it also these came out of great tribulation Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY LIVED and reigned with Christ a thousand years. - First resurection Dead in Christ Rise First then those that are alive which survived are changed First is always First
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. - Not all are martyred until after the beast and great tribulation and the Lord shorten's those days Mat 24:22
The pope is the anti christ the lord Jesus warned us about. The pope changed the sabbath day to a pagan day sunday which is dedicated to satan and sun worship.The pope gave the orders to torture millions of christians in the dark ages this is also a fullfilment of bible prophecy as anti christ. The pope called himself jesus's equal fullfiling the blasphemy of the anti christ. The pope came to power after romes fall and is still here today to fullfil Revelation 13 , he is 2thess2:4
Fear tactics does deceive many. 2Pe 3:14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; The PEACE of Christ/ The Holy Spirit, is who guards us against being deceived.
@wainadoi1 There are no two second comings of Christ. No where did He mention His returning twice. Rather He said; Mt 22:44 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"'? [and] Joh 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
@GodsSeer: With the wrath during the tribulation 7 bowls and 7 Trumpets do you think there would be peace and safety?, do you think that people will still partying and enjoy drinking? What do you you think will happen to the world when the stars will fall from the sky, people will seek for death and death will flee away from them. What will you do when your whole body is covered with boils and other disease, stink and smell, are you sure you understand about what the bible says?
@wainadoi1 ''WRATH'' is not the same thing as tribulation. Jesus HIMSELF prayed this prayer; Joh 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep [guard, protect] them from the evil one. He told us ; Mt 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. He will NOT leave His position until a certain time; Lu 20:43 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
@GodsSeer What the Psalmist is saying is different from what you're saying. (Context) Rev 7 The Church was already found in heaven before the tribulation. An angle was about to pour out the wrath of God another Angle say "Stop till I mark the people of God (144,000) with God's seal so that they will not be harmed by the Tribulation" During that tribulation the 3rd Temple will be there, the Jews worship will be in place" That is something I dont think God will allow to be existed together.
@GodsSeer Only the 144,000 from the tribe of Israel will have the seal of God to be protected from the great Tribulation. That is not the church, that is the people of Israel. Read Revelation 7.
John was in heaven after he received the message to the 7 churches Rev2 and 3, Ch 4 he was called up to heaven Ch 7 he saw the Christians before the throne, while the 144,000 was on earth. Please explain that to me.
@wainadoi1 I have and asked the Lord Jesus for the truth. the sealing of His Servants all servants are sealed at the same time Rev. 7 that is what He sent His angel's to do. Rev. 7 is not a divided it is one event ,compare Rev. 22: 3-6 and Rev. 22:14-17 Number no man can number servants sealed in foreheads, with His New Name, before His Throne. -Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.
@wainadoi1 this verse does not say His foot sets on earth either but it is immediately after the tribulation Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
@thetruthimpart That is the coming the people of Israel is waiting for where he will set is foot on Mount Olive and will enter the golden gate. Tha's why you see Jewish people burry their dead at the in front of the golden gate to be resurrected when their Mesiah comes.
@wainadoi1 1) In Jewish tradition, this is the gate through which the Messiah will enter Jerusalem. Ottoman Sultan Suleiman I sealed off the Golden Gate in 1541 to prevent the Messiah's entrance.The Muslims also built a cemetery in front of the gate, in the belief that the precursor to the Messiah, Elijah, would not be able to pass through the Golden Gate and thus the Messiah would not come. This belief was based upon two premises. First, according to Islamic teaching Elijah is a descendant of
@wainadoi1 2) Aaron making him a priest or kohen. Secondly, that Jewish priests are not permitted to enter a cemetery. This second premise is not wholly correct because a kohen is permitted to enter a cemetery in which primarily non-Jews are buried such as the one outside the Golden Gate. Jew's Instead they buried their dead opposite the gate and to the South on the Mount of Olives. This Jewish cemetery is the oldest in continuous use anywhere in the world.
3) The Christian cemetery lies in the bottom of the Kidron Valley (in sad condition) WHILE the Muslim burial area covers the eastern Temple Mount hillside up to and surrounding the Golden Gate.
@wainadoi1 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. Do you understand coming it is singular you can not show one verse where it is plural you will never read about the comings ,returns or appearings, for it is not written, it is always singular COME LORD JESUS
@wainadoi1 Where is He going to stay the seven years before HIS Third coming into our air? Are all the Saints going to just float around in the air till then? Since Saints will NOT go before the dead in Christ are resurrected, WHEN is the first resurrection? Will the Tribulation Saints be part of that FIRST resurrection?WHEN?
@wainadoi1 The air is part of the earth.We will NOT be raptured before the 1st resurrection. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. The anti-Christ must be revealed 1st. 2Th 2:3 ¶ Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
@wainadoi1 , Just as there is ONE First resurrection, and THAT is mentioned here; 1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [proves that all dead Saints will rise before the rapture, and omits any other FIRST resurrection, leaving the beheaded saints of the tribulation period joined in with THAT FIRST resurrection. , making it AFTER THE TRIBULATION]
@GodsSeer Cont'd..order to fulfill His Word. The wrath of God abides to those OUTSIDE of Christ. God will use the antichrist to pour out His wrath on this untoward generation. Christians that will take part in this "Great Tribulation" are those who repented "too late" (i.e. after the rapture). There will be no excuse b/4 God as the Word of God will 1st be spread throughout the world, making everyone on Earth aware of Jesus 7 time to repent, so that no one will accuse God on grounds of ignorance.
@wainadoi1 How does it show that? it says when the say peace safety not that not that there will be peace just like the false prophets before Jer 6:14 They have healed also the hurt [of the daughter] of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when [there is] no peace.
"Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
dmac333100 The rapture doctrine has been misunderstood by many in that they place it before the tribulation period. I beg to differ from that understanding. The rapture is not pre-tribulation, it is a post tribulation rapture, at the sound of the last trumpet, not the first trumpet. The so called christians will go through the tribulation period with the exception of those who die from natural or accidental death. The rapture takes place at the last trumpet and not before.
RAPTURE: Jesus comes FOR His Saints as a thief (quickly, suddenly) when we LEAST expect Him (eating/drinking; marrying/giving in marriage; buying/selling; planting/building)
2ND COMING: nuclear war, boils from the sun, massive earthquakes/starvation, all mountains/islands disappear; all oceans turn to blood/everything dies; plagues, 100# hailstones, all greenery burned; satanic madmen cutting off people's heads...Jesus comes in Great Power & Glory WITH His Saints & EVERY eye will see Him
@MyhopeisinhimGood afternoon Hope. I, personally, have never thought Matt 24, Mark 13, or II THes 2 spoke anything but the second coming.
The chronological order that I speak of is that it seems to say in II Thes 2.1,2 is that Christ will come, but before he comes, v 3-8 the antichrist. Then Christ will come v.9.
I certainly would NOT consider II Thes 2.1 a prooftext for the rapture.
The rapture is definately implicit rather than explicit. That is why I do not make a big issue.
(4) Last one and I will shut up. The second coming/rapture/tribulation is not an easy thing to sort out. I can assure you that I am not infatically firm on anything except that Christ is coming back.
However, I have found it useful, when reading the Bible, to understand some identifying word i.e.
Day of the Lord, Day of Christ, in that day, regather, restore, Jacob's trouble, tribe, nation, remnant.
The use of thes words is consistant in identifying certain events and people.
When I look at 2 thess 2:1-3 it seems to be in chronological order if I come it with Matthew 24. First the coming, then the gathering...but before the coming can occur, the first thing listed, first the great falling away must occur and the antichrist be revealed.
I used to think that it wasn't chronological that the gathering mentioned there is referring to the rapture, which I once thought would occur before, but both matthew and thess seem to give the same order.
(3) II Thes 2.1 Chapter 1 speaks of the second coming. Chapter 2 backs up and says v1,2 "says let no man decieve you" before the second coming of Christ in Chapter 1
v 3 "the man of sin shall be revieled" I believe this would indicate a time BEFORE the tribulation.
v 4 "he (man of sin) is sitting in the temple...showing himself to be God" This is the abomination of desilation, during the tribulation.
So v1 is out of chronological order. V2,3 states that before v1 happens, the beast
(2) Matt 24.31, Mark 13.27 Both of these passages, earlier, state "after the tribulation" so this speaks of the second coming. All come to earth for the millennial kingdom.
GOD (angels) are gathering all of the saints from earth and heaven. I believe these are the saints that will initially populate the millennial kingdom Rev 20.7. These will be those who overcame during the tribulaiton, did not take the mark of the beast, and will be ushered into the millenial reign of Christ.
@Myhopeisinhim Good morning Pat. I hope you are well. Matt 24.31 You said "before we are gathered, or raptured home."
I am not saying that I have all the answers on this question. but let's look at v 30,31.
As I have said, there will be untold multitudes saved during the tribulation. There will also be untold multitudes martyred, as well. Who will be left on earth alive is unsure.
V30 "and all the tribes of earth shall mourn" The Jews are called tribes, the Gentiles nations.
I'm surprised you think of them dying as a punishment for their stubborness when the apostles and many early christians died for their faith. Some died in horrific ways such as being eaten by lions in public arenas.
What were they being punished for? Look at what happened to stephen and peter.
@Myhopeisinhim The 'normal' tribulations Christians face is relatively 'light' & haphazard worldwide (though it is true some Christians suffered horrifically). These are "out pockets". The great tribulation will be uniform & far more intense than even these "out pockets" & will be global. The Name of Jesus will reach everyone worldwide b/4 rapture occurs, warning people repent (that no excuse might be given). Those that refuse to repent prior to it will be beaten heavily later by the Antichrist.
@Myhopeisinhim What I was talking about (regarding people being punished for their stubbornness) was in relation to AFTER rapture. As for those that refuse to repent & dies (whether b/4 or after the rapture) despite being aware of Christ will be beaten with many stripes (Luke 12:47) while those who died completely ignorant of Christ will receive a few stripes (Luk.12:48). Only God knows how to fairy deal with situations in a good & fair way & with compensations to those that suffered unfairly.
The thing is though, whether one is saved before the rapture or after, they are still saints. They are still his elect. They are still saved from the wrath to come because of what Jesus has done for them. The bible tells us that they live and reign with Christ.
When we face tribulations and trials it is like a refiners fire, not the wrath of God. He uses them to shape us and teach us things he wants us to know; however, the wrath of God falls upon those that don't believe.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Rev 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand. The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation....
@Myhopeisinhim Furthermore, what is the point (or sense) of being raptured (to be with the Lord in the air) after "Christ's spotless bride" is being beaten to a pulp, only to immediately come back to Earth to rule with Christ in His millennial reign? Also when (or how) do you think Rev. 19:9 will occur? Please I need some explanation.
@Myhopeisinhim That's a 'blanket' answer that appear to be too vague. Nonetheless, the days being 'cut short' is in relation to a remnant: The elect (a remnant c.f. the entire world) will be taken b/4 the great tribulation; a remnant will flee to the mountains; a remnant of the post-trib. converted Christians will be left & also a remnant of the unbelievers on Earth will be left. All b/4 Christ's 2nd coming. This is the main reason why the days will be cut short; for the elects & remnant's sake.
It would be nice, and I certainly hope for your sake and others that it is before, but sadly, the scriptures do not appear to teach so. He teaches and speaks of the elect being in the trib, Matthew 24, Mark, even Paul speaks of the revealing of the antichrist and a great falling away which happens before we are gathered. This fits with the teaching of Matthew, and other passages.
I hope it is before the trib just the sake of those who believe, I fear for their faith if it doesn't.
I don't have quite all the answers, and I rightly admit so, but we also see another mention of the supper in verse 17. The church doesn't have to be gathered 7 years before for the supper. We have to remember that time with God is not the same as time with us. When we leave this world in the rapture, many things can happen just before we appear with him.
I personally believe we can read of the rapture, or the gathering, in Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, and again in 2 Thess 2:1. I believe they are speaking of the same event. Where we are called up on the day of the Lord when the trumpet sounds and his voice calls out.
The scriptures appear to teach that certain things must come to pass before we are taken to be with him and Paul tells us not to be deceived, thinking that it's happened yet
That we must see the rise of the antichrist, and the great falling away, along with the other events in Matthew before we are gathered, or raptured home. The elect, or the saints, are those who have placed their faith in Jesus and he will take them home:)
I also agree that he has a special remnant or elect of Israel. Elect meaning chosen, a people preserved so to speak. They will be from the twelve tribes of Israel, and will be of literal Israel. But he also appears to use the term "elect" for believers as well.
@Myhopeisinhim In Psa.12:6, the Word of God is being fulfilled multiple times, tried & tested 7 times. Xtians had always been hated, persecuted etc, since times past (as His Word being fulfilled in these time pasts). All these 'tribulations' pales into insignificance compared with the "Great Tribulation". We are at the beginnings of the last days, with increments in wars, natural disasters, unexpected pestilences etc. The Antichrist (not yet come) will bring the Great tribulation wrath of God.
I agree, The troubles to come will definitely make everything else seem pale in comparison. Never has such a time ever been upon the earth and never will again.
@Myhopeisinhim That's part of what I have been try so far. he trials & tribulations that Christians tend to suffer (for Christ's sake) eve upto the time of the rapture is '"very puny" compared with what is to come, that is brought about by the Antichrist himself. The latter is not yet manifested or is hidden to the general world for now (by the hand of God, for His elects' sake). When God removes His hand, the antichrist becomes revealed. It would not make sense for God to remove His hand..contd
@Myhopeisinhim .contd. while the reason while His hand was staying the antichrist's revelation is left behind (i.e. the Elect's sake), otherwise His holding back of the antichrist would be in vain (i.e. for God to hold back the antichrist, His elect must be very precious to Him. For Him to remove His hand, his precious elect must also be removed, lest they be desecrated or destroyed by the antichrist). For those that repented later, there is still hope of salvation but via the antichrist's fire.
The problem with that, and I wish it were true, I really do, is that the gathering of the elect doesn't occur until his coming after the tribulation according to matthew 24. We see this mentioned three times in scripture, Mark 13, matthew 24, and 2 thess 2.
@Myhopeisinhim There's no point going on in circles regarding whether the Rapture will occur before of after the great tribulation. Please seek the face of God & ask Him. Whatever He tells you through Christ, let me be aware.
Sorry to interrupt but to believe in the pre-tri rapture is to wilfully deceive oneself. The events in Revelation absolutely mirror the events of ancient Israel in Egypt. The 7 last plagues in Revelation mirror the Egyptian plagues.
Was ANY Israelite in Egypt raptured so as to escape Pharaoh's wrath? Absolutely not. The pre-trib rapture is a lie designed to take God's people's eyes away from the issue central to the tribulations.
@PreparetomeetthyGod Jesus Christ said these last days will be like unto that of Noah (not like unto that of Egypt). In the days of Noah, the entire people were all given into all manner of idolatry including mundane pleasures & all manner of wickedness & vile affections with Nephilim hybrids being in existence, God was entirely forgotten & mocked by them, all flesh were been corrupted on Earth (Gen 6:12), all leading to the extinction of the human race (with the exception of Noah & his family).
You are right, there isn't any point:) The most important thing is that we are ready for his return whenever that may be and that if it doesn't happen before that we still keep our faith and walk in the Lord.
Just like Israel of old was persecuted by Pharaoh for keeping the Shabbat as Exodus 5:5 about THE REST informs, so will Christians be persecuted for keeping the Shabbat.
Yeshua clearly HINTS that the Shabbat will be kept at the beginning of the tribulations in Matthew 24 & HINTS that it should not be violated when trying to escape to the mountains. Lets not buy into fanciful doctrines & focus on what God says.
@PreparetomeetthyGod All these evils occurred until Noah was "raptured" into the spiritually door-locked Ark with a week delay BEFORE the global watery wrath of God killed all life on land. One should also note that prior to the great flood, Noah & his family were also persecuted & mocked for almost 100 years by these evil people but alas had the last laugh when the wrath of God came. So this has nothing to do with fanciful doctrines but the truth. We're under grace, not the bondage of the law.
@PreparetomeetthyGod The Pharisees kept the Mosaic law to the letter; yet Jesus Christ gave them large amounts of woe (b'cos of their self righteousness, hypocrisy & refusal to accept Him as the Messiah). Salvation is by the Spirit of God (not by keeping of the law). In this new dispensation, Christ had done away with the 'bondage of the law' (Col. 2:16). It appears God will use the antichrist to punish Israel for rejecting His Son Jesus Christ. Those of the temple will be heavily destroyed.
@PreparetomeetthyGod This is not to say that those in Christ should be 'lawless' b'cos we ain't under the law. We should reflect the character of Christ by being lawful (both to God & the secular world) for civil peace. For God to recognize our goodness, we have to be in Christ. Note that those that flee into the mountains (far away from the Jewish temple) will be saved & nurtured by God while those of the temple (probably of the orthodox sect) will be heavily destroyed by the lawless evil one.
My friend, thanks for your response but I fear the issue of rapture before the tribulation was not addressed. I suppose it was my fault as I answered my own question so I will ask it of you to help me understand HOW the pre-trib rapture theory is even remotely supported by Scripture.
So here goes, I said the 7 plagues in the book of Rev mirror the Egyptian plagues in Exodus & that the similarities are unmistakable.
@PreparetomeetthyGod Hi; all I know & follow regarding the rapture issue is based on what Jesus said (& explained what He meant), not the 'parallels' you might think. Jesus related the last days (including the events & His coming) to the days of Noah. I have said that before. Jesus did not explain the rapture after the plagues of Egypt. Read the bible very well! I will also ask you if the post-trib. rapture is remotely supported in scripture. I have explained previously. What else can I explain?
These similarities of Ancient Israel exodus to the promised land is exactly like it will be for the exodus of the Israel of God (the Church) to the promised land (Heaven)
So in both, we have the plagues in which Israel is protected from after she suffers from persecution by unbelievers. So my question to you is, did ANY in ancient Israel got raptured before the Pharaoh persecution to escape or did THE WHOLE OF ISRAEL stay in Egypt until the deliverance came FOR ALL??
@PreparetomeetthyGod One reason why Jesus might not had likened the rapture to Israel in Egypt & Exodus was b'cos of their hard heartedness & foolishness: After wailing unto God for 400 years & were delivered, their minds & attitudes were such that they always murmured against God & charged Him with folly from saving them from Egypt, with their minds, hearts & physical preparedness into going back into Egypt. This cannot be said of Noah or the true Xtians who always look forward (not backwards).
You wrote "One reason why Jesus might not have likened the rapture to Israel in Egypt & exodus was b'cos of their hard heartedness & foolishness"
Isn't that interesting? So the Christians aren't hard hearted & foolish? Actually Christians are exactly in the same position as ancient Israel in terms of rebellion. Ever wondered why the word Babylon is used in Revelation to describe the false church of the antichrist that will persecute the true Commandment keeping Church?
@PreparetomeetthyGod Read my statement well. What I said previously was a "PROBABLE" reason, not a "DEFINITE" one. Ain't it also very interesting that you deliberately deviated from the specific teaching of Jesus regarding the "as in the days of Noah" to "as in the days of Israel in Egypt"? Ain't that foolhardy? Israel's captivity in Egypt was not unique. They had also been in captivity in Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, Roman etc & God had delivered them out. So it is no unique thing. in contrast
The symbolism in Revelation of the church of the antichrist as Babylon drives home the fact that like ancient Israel before her, the Church, Israel of God, has apostatised & trampled on YHWH'S Shabbat & for this same reason, God is going to punish her with Babylonian rule in the end time.
Pre-trib rapture is a lie that came from the Catholic Church to stop people searching Scriptures & identifying the RCC as the persecuting Babylon & Sunday worship as the beast's mark.
@PreparetomeetthyGod...(contd) the event(s) of Noah was far UNIQUE & had not occurred before or after that event since till today (i.e. a global watery catastrophic flood). For this DEFINITE uniqueness, the tribulations to come will be unique, LIKE NO OTHER b/4 or after it (as Jesus said). So what's your problem that you cannot understand the sayings of Jesus regarding the rapture-tribulation chronology but rather you deciding to misinterpret the bible, talking of something entirely tangential?
@7olusegun Well in the bible God said he;d never flood the world again so, that's just one instance that is out of the question, it does also say what will happen int he last days far exceeds what any one has ever seen beforehand.
@Shadowlooker12 That time, God used water to destroy the world. This time He will use fire (2 Pet. 3:10-12). So what is out of which question? The Word of God is being fulfilled in multiple world events (not just in only one event; (Psa. 12:6)). What do you think was meant by "the days shall be shortened"? As in the days of Noah & Lot, so shall the coming of Christ be (Mat. 24:37-39; Luk.17:28-29). Now tell me if Noah & Lot took part of the watery & fiery wrath of God respectively. Obviously....
@Shadowlooker12 ..(cont'd) Noah entered into the SPIRITUALLY DOOR LOCKED Ark with a week delay period b/4 the global flood began. Likewise Lot went out of Sodom (etc) b/4 fire & brimstone rained down on those cities. The "coming of the Lord" occurs at the rapture (coinciding with the 1st resurrection; 1 Thes. 4:16-17) & in the beginning of His millennial reign (coinciding with the great tribulation ending). Jesus said His coming shall be like unto those of these 2 men. Did they suffer His wrath?
@7olusegun ''WRATH?'' is not the same as TRIBULATION. Those were NOT taken out of the world, but ''KEPT'' from harm; Joh 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one,,,, Mt 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved
@GodsSeer Are you not aware that "tribulation" (i.e. persecution) & "great tribulation" are not the same? That the latter dwarfs the former to a greater degree. Ain't you also aware in Revelation, the WRATH of God begins with the opening of the 1st to the 7 seals? The 1st seal of God's wrath begins with the arrival of the antichrist (& the sequel of unparaleled events to follow). Do you also forget that the heart of kings (including satan) are in God's hands & He (God) turns it as He wills in ..
@GodsSeer Cont'd..order to fulfill His Word. The wrath of God abides to those OUTSIDE of Christ. God will use the antichrist to pour out His wrath on this untoward generation. Christians that will take part in this "Great Tribulation" are those who repented "too late" (i.e. after the rapture). There will be no excuse b/4 God as the Word of God will 1st be spread throughout the world, making everyone on Earth aware of Jesus 7 time to repent, so that no one will accuse God on grounds of ignorance.
@PreparetomeetthyGod Hi, why not ask The Lord Jesus whether the rapture is pre-tribulation or post-tribulation? I presume you are close to Him since you are ready to meet Him as your name suggests. Whatever He tells you, let me be aware. I cannot explain further what I had already done before.
The act of fleeing to the mountains certainly violates the Shabbat. The Shabbat is for PRAYER, WORSHIP, not for fleeing.
Acts 16:13 On the Shabbat we went outside the city gates to the river, where we expected to find a place of PRAYER.
So my dearly beloved myhope, as we see here in Acts 16:13, early Christians sought places to PRAY OR WORSHIP on Shabbat, not to proselytize as Sunday keepers claim.
On Shabbat my friend, you should go to Church to PRAY, WORSHIP, ok!
So you believe that Jesus said that because it was against his law to flee for their life on the sabbath? Was it also against the law to flee for their life in the winter? Remember, it's not gonna abruptly change meaning. why he said what he did for winter is the same reason he said for the sabbath, and for mothers with child etc.
Well my friend, what can I say? Whatever your understanding of what Jesus meant in Matthew 24 about praying that we won't have to flee on Shabbat when the tribulations begin, what matters is that YOU KNOW that the Shabbat will still be valid for God's people at the time of tribulation.
What we see is a group of jewish people still keeping all the feasts today(every feast of God), and as a result of their beliefs of the sabbath, they close the gates to their city, making it impossible for anyone to buy/sell or travel great distances in fear of breaking the sabbath.
If one is called to flee on the sabbath, it has nothing to do with really breaking a command(God wouldn't make you guilty cause you flee for your life) The difficulty lies in getting...
out of the city with the gates closed. This presents trouble for mothers, or mothers with child especially because it's not like they can scale a wall or anything. This fits with why winter is mentioned as well. It is cold, wet, icy, and is dangerous for traveling. It's not against God's law to flee in Winter, but it is dangerous and hard to do so.
Jesus already showed us that the sabbath wasn't given to hinder man, or because it has power over man. They would be allowed to flee, it just...
You do have to admit that it has nothing to do with breaking a commandment that he spoke this, because there is no indication of change...the verse speaks of difficulties, problems traveling, and the sabbath command itself poses no problems to that. Dangers and problems trying to travel is what is being spoken of.
If you remember he said that the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath. If it was the other way around it might pose some problem with fleeing, but..
it wasn't. You remember jesus saying that because the pharisees were attacking jesus disciples for picking corn because they were hungry. They officially broke the sabbath, but Jesus showed them mercy, and reminded the people that man wasn't made for the sabbath, but rather it was given to benefit, not hinder man.
@7olusegun Good evening Sir. I hope you are well. I think you are using powerful words that have an itentity. Remnant and elect are used throughout the Bible in association with the remnant of God's chosen people, the Jews. Not a remnant of the world, but a remnant that God promised, throughout scripture, he would preserve
Remnant and elect have strong identifying characteristics of the Jews. Now, I am in no way saying that this is concusive proof of a rapture of Christians. Just saying
@mark0454 Hi; the 'Word of God' can/is being fulfilled in multiple situations & can be tried/tested 7 times (Psa12:6). "A remnant" is not only in relation to the Jews, but also to Gentiles as well. Though millions will be raptured, this is a relatively small remnant compared with those left behind. At the apocalypse of the red, black & pale horses (in Revelation), billions of people (up to 2/3rds) will be destroyed (also by satanic spirits from the pit) such that only a remnant will be left.....
@mark0454 ..(contd).. When the Beast (Antichrist) pours his world wide armies against Israel, only a remnant will flee to the mountains & be saved. For those that remain in Israel, only a remnant will be alive when Jesus comes (according to the bible), Israel will be heavily destroyed by the beast (Antichrist), though the beast's armies will also be heavily be destroyed at Armageddon. Of the unbelievers& beasts's armies, most will be heavily destroyed by satanic spirits from the bottomless pit..
@mark0454 ..(contd).. also be destroyed by reason of the wars & other catastrophes. As one can see, God always leave/saves a remnant of people. This shows that "salvation" in God via Christ is not only for the Jews, but also for the Greek (or Gentiles) & that God ain't a respecter of persons. Apostle Paul (etc) will bear me witness here! The same God that created the Jew also created the Gentile & He sent His Son Jesus to die for all men, that in Him ALL men are spiritual Jews (His people).
@Myhopeisinhim As far as the rapture is concerned, IMMEDIATELY after it, only those that DO NOT believe in Christ are left behind. You can be one of them if you want. Who were those in Rev. 20:4 referring to that DID NOT WORSHIP THE BEAST (Antichrist) as seen in the 5th seal of Revelation? This was seen long after the Antichrist's arrival in the 1st seal of Revelation. Who were those in Luk17:34-36 Jesus Himself was referring to that would be taken? Tribulation & Great tribulation aint the same.
We are all looking for his glorious appearing, but we're told that there are signs that must come first, even Paul stated that the man of Sin and the great falling away must happen first. Some have sought to separate the day of the Lord from the rapture, but anytime the rapture is discussed, or the gathering is discuss it is always at the end of the tribulation.
@Myhopeisinhim If the Rapture is at the end of tribulation (i.e Christians will pass through the GREAT TRIBULATION according to you) & Jesus said these last days shall be like unto that of Noah, then explain to me why Noah did not partake of the global watery flood with the rest of the people that perished OUTSIDE the Ark. Also explain to me why there was a 7 day delay period (i.e. a 'long time') AFTER Noah & his family were 'raptured' b/4 the global watery wrath of God occurred. please explain.
@Myhopeisinhim The Word of God' has been tried & tested up to 7 times (in being fulfilled) in world events. The "great falling away" began when "grievous wolves" (acts 2:29) infiltrated the true church of Christ, but were not part of them. After learning of the gospel of Christ, broke away & "married" the gospel of Jesus with ancient Babylonian & Egyptian beliefs, to form a new religion that was legalized by Emperor Konstantine of Rome. Priests, clergies & Bishops were formed by this 'new' contd
@Myhopeisinhim..contd.. religion'. Emperor Konstantine was still in the way of power (2 Thess.2:7). But after his time was up, the religious Roman entities gained both political & religious power (still under the Roman kingdom). This was the birth of the Roman Catholic Church system, which also was the birth of the seat of the antichrist (the wicked one to come). Popes that came & went were antichrists (that did much evil, far worse than their Roman emperors). But THE ANTICHRIST to come will....
@Myhopeisinhim ...cont'd..will perform far much global wickedness, unparalleled in extensiveness & intensity like no other before him & will be a Nephilim hybrid, directly of the seed of satan & a human woman (probably of Assyrian-Jewish origins). The "day of the Lord" is when the day appointed regarding the fulfillment of the coming of the Lord occurs. He came as Jesus Christ, He will come during the rapture though not to earth) as well as during His Millennial reign & eternity rule on Earth.
Keep up the good work! You are correct the changing into the spiritual body does not occur until the 7th trump! Those who believe in the rapture will fall for the anti-christ at the 6th trump!
At the rapture he isn't gonna take us up into the sky with him while hes coming to Earth at the same time to set up his kingdom for the 1000 years. First he takes us up at the rapture BEFORE the Tribulation as seen in Reveltion 3:10 (Thief in the night) then he comes back WITH US to set up his kingdom and make it the kingdom of God and his people.
"Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you *FROM* the hour of trial that is coming on the *WHOLE WORLD* to test the inhabitants of the Earth."
So people are partying and marrying when he comes "Like a thief in the night" not going through giant Earthquakes, facing the Anti-Christ, seeing angels in the sky ect. One will be taken and the other left. I think this is what he is talking about in revelation 3:10.
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
So people are partying and marrying when he comes "Like a thief in the night" not going through giant Earthquakes, facing the Anti-Christ, seeing angels in the sky ect. One will be taken and the other left. I think this is what he is talking about in revelation 3:10.
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the WHOLE WORLD to test those who live on the earth."
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
So people are partying and marrying when he comes "Like a thief in the night" not going through giant Earthquakes, facing the Anti-Christ, seeing angels in the sky ect. One will be taken and the other left. I think this is what he is talking about in revelation 3:10.
"Since you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the WHOLE WORLD to test the inhabitants of the Earth."
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
So that we ourselves glory in you in the CHURCHES OF GOD for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and TRIBULATIONS that ye endure.
And to you who are troubled, REST with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be REAVEALED from heaven with his mighty angels. WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe. THE CHURCHES OF GOD "REST" WHEN JESUS IS REVEALED WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS, not seven years before that. Be prepared, please
nice little fearmonger there. Get away from crazy christians and understand that the book of revelation could be what imprisons us in the end. All they have to do is fake all of this through technology and call it magic.
In Gen. 7:2; after Noah and his family were in the Ark, there was a seven day "delay period" before the watery wrath of God commenced. If each day been appointed for a year (e.g.as in Ezek. 4:6; Num.14:34), then it is very possible that the tribulation commences 7 years after the rapture occur, with the most intense part of it lasting the last 42 months before the second coming of Christ (with His saints) to Earth occur and the dawning of His millenial reign.
@7olusegun Why speculate when the Bible clearly states:
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV
In the previous chapter it shows that this day Paul is referring to is your so called rapture, when in fact it is the day of the Lord. So find out what this day of the lord is.
@harmono What part of the bible do you know to support your so called "raptureless tribulation"? What do you understand by "a thief in the night" and how could you possibly explain Luk. 17:34-36? Why did God not allow Noah (& his family) to partake & perish of the great global flood? The bible said Jesus Christ is the Head of the church & those in Him are in His complete image & likeness. He was TAKEN UP into heaven (Act 1:9); so likewise will be His bride. 1Cor. 15:51-54 further explains it.
@7olusegun What I'm saying and the Bible is saying is that the "rapture" happens at the same time as the "day of the Lord", and yes this "day of the Lord" comes as a thief in the night, and the elect will be gathered to be with Him.
Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:6, don't let the chapter divisions derail the context. The context shows that this is the "day of the Lord", which is the coming of Christ. When Jesus comes there will be a great sound, a voice and a trumpet.
@harmono Actually, "a thief in the night" appear to be something sudden and unannounced. the Word of God is always fulfilled in multiple areas. There's a difference between the "rapture" (which will occur unannounced but sudden) & Jesus' second coming which will occur just after the great tribulation, ushering in His millenial reign. If God did not allow Noah & his family to suffer the watery flood (unlike the others), I believe He will not allow His elects to suffer the great tribulation also.
@harmono Whether it's my own reasoning or what the bible said, thou knowest. In 1Thes 4:16-18, who told you the whole world will be aware of His descent? What is occurring here is entirely in the spiritual. Only those in Him will be spiritually aware & will be CAUGHT UP to be with Him (Luk. 17:34-36). The bible did not say Jesus is coming down to rule the world at this particular time. Read Luk.17:34-36 & provide me a Spirit inspired sensible interpretation. Those in darkness will not be taken.
@7olusegun It says in 1 Thess 4 that Jesus will descend from heaven. You are saying this is spirital. When Jesus ascended to heaven, the Angels said that Jesus would descend in the same manner. Where do you get the idea that this is spirital? Is the resurrection only spiritual? Is the rapture only spiritual? Of course not. So why is the return of Jesus spirutal and not physical? I can't reason with people who take something literal and make it spiritual for no apparent reason.
@harmono Just answer my question regarding Luk.17:34-36. Moreover, before Jesus died, He was seen by every living man. After He resurrected, He was seen by His disciples & apostles only. These were the only witnesses (save the angels) that saw Him ascend into heaven. He was not seen by those not in Him otherwise the Jewish Pharisees (etc) would not had succeeded in lying to the people & making them to believe that He did not resurrect (as all eyes would had seen Him). You ain't of the truth....
...Hence you cannot reason. What's so hard in understanding the truth? What do you mean by "day of the Lord"? If you interpret 1 Thes.4:16 as Jesus' 2nd coming (i.e. to rule on Earth), then will it make any sense for those in Him to be taken away to be with Him in the air forever while He begin His milenial rule on Earth immediately? Just answer my question on Luk.17:34-36 and also explain to me why God did not allow Noah & his family to partake of the watery flood; why God should change today.
@7olusegun Too many questions at once. One at a time. There is no difference between the rapture happening 7 years earlier or upon his return. He takes the elect up, then wrath on earth happens. Do you think when Jesus establishes His kingdom it will be peaceful, and no judgement? God spared Noah, and also will not harm those who have the seal of God on thier foreheads. A 7 year tribulation is a protestant purgatory for Jews who did not believe?
@harmono No sir! there is a big difference between the rapture and Christ's 2nd coming (for His millenial reign). Christ's millenial reign will be global, peaceful & bliss/utopian. There will be no satanic influence as satan is bound & cast into the bottomless pit. If you view my previous statements, I said, like in the days of Noah, there will very likely be a 7 year delay period btw the rapture & the global tribulation but it appears the last 3.5 years will be the most devastating.
@harmono@harmono No sir! there is a big difference between the rapture and Christ's 2nd coming (for His millenial reign). Christ's millenial reign will be global, peaceful & bliss/utopian. There will be no satanic influence as satan is bound & cast into the bottomless pit. If you view my previous statements, I said, like in the days of Noah, there will very likely be a 7 year delay period btw the rapture & the global tribulation but it appears the last 3.5 years will be the most devastating.
@eddienickels1 1Thes.4:16-17 refer to the rapture of the Saints. This ain't the second coming of Christ. Not everyone in the world will be aware of this event b'cos this event is occurring in the spiritual. Only those in Christ (on Earth) will witness this event after being taken up. This is also the event in which those who died in Christ (b/4 this event) will first receive their glorified bodies, which is immediately followed by those (in Christ) living on Earth at that time. This is (cont'd).
@7olusegun If you read Acts 3:21 and still believe that you are in for a big surprise. Because 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17 is going to be loud not a secret.
@eddienickels1 You search the bible scriptures out thoroughly for yourself! Anything you may find contrary to what I have written so far, let me know!
It's not a LIE here's the scripture 1Thessalonians 4:16-18 speaks on the pre tribulation rapture the catch for being able to actually go with the lord jesus christ is you must be living a 'holy and acceptable life in the eyes of the lord' or then you'll have to be a martyr of the faith in order to get into heaven.This will take place BEFORE the first 3 1/2 year period of false peace once the second 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation period happens it will literally be HELL ON EARTH
Intangiblemobfigaz 1 day ago
@777denny Man, what was that music at 4:30?
DovefromGod 1 week ago
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Repent of your disbelief now. Time is running out for you.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 1 month ago
People will be drinking and marrying and giving in marriage planting and selling in the Great and Terrible Tribulation? *Peace and Safety then "sudden" destruction* Are we not appointed to wrath? Blessings
believerinchrist83 2 months ago
@believerinchrist83 - Yes. The "sudden destruction" is the "orge" wrath of God at the Second Coming when Antichrist is destroyed. Check out my blog and the articles mentioned below.
MidnightWatcher322 2 months ago
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To any pre-trib teachers, I encourage you to check out MidnightWatcher's Blogspot and read through a few of the articles in the "Theology and Eschatology" section, particularly the "Not Appointed Unto Wrath" and "The Revelation of Jesus Christ and the Rapture of the Church" articles. I challenge anyone to refute them.
MidnightWatcher322 2 months ago in playlist pre-tribulation rapture
spiritually or physically? For spiritually He is every where and physically -Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. -The last enemy is death destroyed at His coming , the First resurrection for believers, the dead in Christ rise First, then those that are alive are changed First is always First and my Lord Jesus is a God of order.
thetruthimpart 2 months ago
English is my second language, if you can't understand about the difference of one group the Bible say it numbered 144,000 and the other Cannot be numbered. I think something wrong some where
wainadoi1 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 so the after this is a continuing of the paragraph sealed of tribes of Israel and of all nations' kindreds, people and tongues and in Rev 22:3-4 you read the servants are already sealed when are they sealed when Jesus sent his angels to seal - Rev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@thetruthimpart Christ said HE will set at the right hand of the Father, until He makes His enemies His footstool. Does that mean He will be in 2 places at once?
GodsSeer 2 months ago
@GodsSeer Well you hear of Him visiting people here on earth (He visited me once), taking them on tours to heaven & hell, and walking around in heaven so He's obviously not literally stuck sitting there all the time. So I think He is at the right hand of His Father's throne in terms of rank and position as opposed to sitting there on His throne 24/7/365. What do you reckon?
mrlantern23 1 month ago
@mrlantern23 True. He visited John on the Isle of Patmos, in a similitude or vision. The resurrection is not a long drawn out event. It is a day. The dead in Christ will rise FIRST. The Saints who die in the tribulation by beheading, will RISE FIRST, DO NOT BE DECEIVED. That day will NOT come until two things happen. 1. The anti-Christ revealed. 2. The dead in Christ will be resurrected. [When the words, ''DO NOT BE DECEIVED'' are given, THAT IS A POINT WHERE MANY will be deceived.
GodsSeer 1 month ago
@mrlantern23 He is omnipresent.
ChildOfGod389 3 weeks ago
@ChildOfGod389 Awesome!
mrlantern23 3 weeks ago
Revelation 7:4-8 clearly says that 144,000 the angels will seal them with the seal of God is from the 12 tribes of Israel. The reason why they have to have the seal of God so that the wrath of God will not harm them on the days of tribulation.
Revelation 22 you talking about is totaly different thing all together.
wainadoi1 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 forgive me should be compare Rev. 7:9-17 and 22:1-5 Rev 22:1 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. - (Sealed) Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7 the vision of all his servants being sealed and Rev, 22 vision of all sealed before His throne
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@thetruthimpart Different people Rev 7:1-8 talks about the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel about to face the great tribulation on earth. Rev 7:9- Talks about the church present before the throne, great multitudes.
See the difference?
wainadoi1 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 No, I do not see a difference and the Holy scriptures comfirm it also these came out of great tribulation Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY LIVED and reigned with Christ a thousand years. - First resurection Dead in Christ Rise First then those that are alive which survived are changed First is always First
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. - Not all are martyred until after the beast and great tribulation and the Lord shorten's those days Mat 24:22
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
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The pope is the anti christ the lord Jesus warned us about. The pope changed the sabbath day to a pagan day sunday which is dedicated to satan and sun worship.The pope gave the orders to torture millions of christians in the dark ages this is also a fullfilment of bible prophecy as anti christ. The pope called himself jesus's equal fullfiling the blasphemy of the anti christ. The pope came to power after romes fall and is still here today to fullfil Revelation 13 , he is 2thess2:4
vladimirkovalski 4 months ago
Fear tactics does deceive many. 2Pe 3:14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; The PEACE of Christ/ The Holy Spirit, is who guards us against being deceived.
GodsSeer 4 months ago
Some teach that the resurrection has already past. They're condemnation is just.
tricey2300 4 months ago
very poorly put together with overlay text from the script. Your doctrine is okay but learn to do a powerpoint for here
frnz444 4 months ago
Peace and safety and suddenly destruction will come upon them 1 Thes 5:3
In the times of tribulation in the book of revelation prior to Jesus coming on Revelation 19:
shows that there is two different coming of Jesus
wainadoi1 4 months ago
@wainadoi1 There are no two second comings of Christ. No where did He mention His returning twice. Rather He said; Mt 22:44 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"'? [and] Joh 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
GodsSeer 4 months ago
@GodsSeer: With the wrath during the tribulation 7 bowls and 7 Trumpets do you think there would be peace and safety?, do you think that people will still partying and enjoy drinking? What do you you think will happen to the world when the stars will fall from the sky, people will seek for death and death will flee away from them. What will you do when your whole body is covered with boils and other disease, stink and smell, are you sure you understand about what the bible says?
wainadoi1 4 months ago
@wainadoi1 ''WRATH'' is not the same thing as tribulation. Jesus HIMSELF prayed this prayer; Joh 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep [guard, protect] them from the evil one. He told us ; Mt 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. He will NOT leave His position until a certain time; Lu 20:43 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
GodsSeer 4 months ago
@wainadoi1 I am not going to receive those boils because Christ will keep me during that time and no evil shall come near MY dwelling, Ps. 91.
GodsSeer 4 months ago
@GodsSeer What the Psalmist is saying is different from what you're saying. (Context) Rev 7 The Church was already found in heaven before the tribulation. An angle was about to pour out the wrath of God another Angle say "Stop till I mark the people of God (144,000) with God's seal so that they will not be harmed by the Tribulation" During that tribulation the 3rd Temple will be there, the Jews worship will be in place" That is something I dont think God will allow to be existed together.
wainadoi1 4 months ago
@GodsSeer Only the 144,000 from the tribe of Israel will have the seal of God to be protected from the great Tribulation. That is not the church, that is the people of Israel. Read Revelation 7.
John was in heaven after he received the message to the 7 churches Rev2 and 3, Ch 4 he was called up to heaven Ch 7 he saw the Christians before the throne, while the 144,000 was on earth. Please explain that to me.
wainadoi1 4 months ago
@wainadoi1 why do you say only 144,000 are sealed the whole chapter is about the sealing of all servants
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@thetruthimpart Please read your Bible
wainadoi1 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 I have and asked the Lord Jesus for the truth. the sealing of His Servants all servants are sealed at the same time Rev. 7 that is what He sent His angel's to do. Rev. 7 is not a divided it is one event ,compare Rev. 22: 3-6 and Rev. 22:14-17 Number no man can number servants sealed in foreheads, with His New Name, before His Throne. -Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@GodsSeer That what it calls the mystery, MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR, COMING FOR THE SAINTS" 1 THES 4(RAPTURE) (Doesn't set His foot on earth)
COMING WITH THE SAINTS Revelation 19 Jesus will set His foot here on earth, that is what Israel is waiting for.
The church is waiting for the Rapture. Can you see the differnce between the COMING FOR and COMING WITH?
wainadoi1 4 months ago
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thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 this verse does not say His foot sets on earth either but it is immediately after the tribulation Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@thetruthimpart That is the coming the people of Israel is waiting for where he will set is foot on Mount Olive and will enter the golden gate. Tha's why you see Jewish people burry their dead at the in front of the golden gate to be resurrected when their Mesiah comes.
wainadoi1 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 1) In Jewish tradition, this is the gate through which the Messiah will enter Jerusalem. Ottoman Sultan Suleiman I sealed off the Golden Gate in 1541 to prevent the Messiah's entrance.The Muslims also built a cemetery in front of the gate, in the belief that the precursor to the Messiah, Elijah, would not be able to pass through the Golden Gate and thus the Messiah would not come. This belief was based upon two premises. First, according to Islamic teaching Elijah is a descendant of
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 2) Aaron making him a priest or kohen. Secondly, that Jewish priests are not permitted to enter a cemetery. This second premise is not wholly correct because a kohen is permitted to enter a cemetery in which primarily non-Jews are buried such as the one outside the Golden Gate. Jew's Instead they buried their dead opposite the gate and to the South on the Mount of Olives. This Jewish cemetery is the oldest in continuous use anywhere in the world.
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
3) The Christian cemetery lies in the bottom of the Kidron Valley (in sad condition) WHILE the Muslim burial area covers the eastern Temple Mount hillside up to and surrounding the Golden Gate.
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. Do you understand coming it is singular you can not show one verse where it is plural you will never read about the comings ,returns or appearings, for it is not written, it is always singular COME LORD JESUS
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
@wainadoi1 Where is He going to stay the seven years before HIS Third coming into our air? Are all the Saints going to just float around in the air till then? Since Saints will NOT go before the dead in Christ are resurrected, WHEN is the first resurrection? Will the Tribulation Saints be part of that FIRST resurrection?WHEN?
GodsSeer 2 months ago
@wainadoi1 The air is part of the earth.We will NOT be raptured before the 1st resurrection. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. The anti-Christ must be revealed 1st. 2Th 2:3 ¶ Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
[a point of deception]
GodsSeer 2 months ago
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@wainadoi1 Mt 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
GodsSeer 4 months ago
@wainadoi1 , Just as there is ONE First resurrection, and THAT is mentioned here; 1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [proves that all dead Saints will rise before the rapture, and omits any other FIRST resurrection, leaving the beheaded saints of the tribulation period joined in with THAT FIRST resurrection. , making it AFTER THE TRIBULATION]
GodsSeer 4 months ago
@GodsSeer Cont'd..order to fulfill His Word. The wrath of God abides to those OUTSIDE of Christ. God will use the antichrist to pour out His wrath on this untoward generation. Christians that will take part in this "Great Tribulation" are those who repented "too late" (i.e. after the rapture). There will be no excuse b/4 God as the Word of God will 1st be spread throughout the world, making everyone on Earth aware of Jesus 7 time to repent, so that no one will accuse God on grounds of ignorance.
7olusegun 4 months ago
@wainadoi1 How does it show that? it says when the say peace safety not that not that there will be peace just like the false prophets before Jer 6:14 They have healed also the hurt [of the daughter] of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when [there is] no peace.
thetruthimpart 3 months ago
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Luke 21:36
"Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 5 months ago
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The bible gives you numerical clues in its passage numbers
Satan is thrown down to earth on Dec. 21 2012 (Revelation 12:9) 2012.9 converted to a date evaluates to 12/21/12
2013 is Mark of the Beast year, (Revelation 13) (13!)
It is the Hexagram - six pointed star of 13 dots
Name of a man = Solomon
Number of its name = 666 talents of gold collected by Solomon in one year (2 Chronicles 9:13 (13!)
Solomon was the apostate king of Israel that led Judah into idolatry
Check my channel!
Ravenous11yt 5 months ago
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dmac333100 The rapture doctrine has been misunderstood by many in that they place it before the tribulation period. I beg to differ from that understanding. The rapture is not pre-tribulation, it is a post tribulation rapture, at the sound of the last trumpet, not the first trumpet. The so called christians will go through the tribulation period with the exception of those who die from natural or accidental death. The rapture takes place at the last trumpet and not before.
dmac333100 5 months ago
RAPTURE: Jesus comes FOR His Saints as a thief (quickly, suddenly) when we LEAST expect Him (eating/drinking; marrying/giving in marriage; buying/selling; planting/building)
2ND COMING: nuclear war, boils from the sun, massive earthquakes/starvation, all mountains/islands disappear; all oceans turn to blood/everything dies; plagues, 100# hailstones, all greenery burned; satanic madmen cutting off people's heads...Jesus comes in Great Power & Glory WITH His Saints & EVERY eye will see Him
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Jesus Christ said ill come again twice. Where do you get this ridiculous assumption?
eddienickels1 6 months ago
@MyhopeisinhimGood afternoon Hope. I, personally, have never thought Matt 24, Mark 13, or II THes 2 spoke anything but the second coming.
The chronological order that I speak of is that it seems to say in II Thes 2.1,2 is that Christ will come, but before he comes, v 3-8 the antichrist. Then Christ will come v.9.
I certainly would NOT consider II Thes 2.1 a prooftext for the rapture.
The rapture is definately implicit rather than explicit. That is why I do not make a big issue.
mark0454 7 months ago
(4) Last one and I will shut up. The second coming/rapture/tribulation is not an easy thing to sort out. I can assure you that I am not infatically firm on anything except that Christ is coming back.
However, I have found it useful, when reading the Bible, to understand some identifying word i.e.
Day of the Lord, Day of Christ, in that day, regather, restore, Jacob's trouble, tribe, nation, remnant.
The use of thes words is consistant in identifying certain events and people.
mark0454 7 months ago
@mark0454
When I look at 2 thess 2:1-3 it seems to be in chronological order if I come it with Matthew 24. First the coming, then the gathering...but before the coming can occur, the first thing listed, first the great falling away must occur and the antichrist be revealed.
I used to think that it wasn't chronological that the gathering mentioned there is referring to the rapture, which I once thought would occur before, but both matthew and thess seem to give the same order.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
come = compare...a typo my apologies. I seem to be worse with typos lately*lol*
I hope you are doing well today:)
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
(3) II Thes 2.1 Chapter 1 speaks of the second coming. Chapter 2 backs up and says v1,2 "says let no man decieve you" before the second coming of Christ in Chapter 1
v 3 "the man of sin shall be revieled" I believe this would indicate a time BEFORE the tribulation.
v 4 "he (man of sin) is sitting in the temple...showing himself to be God" This is the abomination of desilation, during the tribulation.
So v1 is out of chronological order. V2,3 states that before v1 happens, the beast
mark0454 7 months ago
(2) Matt 24.31, Mark 13.27 Both of these passages, earlier, state "after the tribulation" so this speaks of the second coming. All come to earth for the millennial kingdom.
GOD (angels) are gathering all of the saints from earth and heaven. I believe these are the saints that will initially populate the millennial kingdom Rev 20.7. These will be those who overcame during the tribulaiton, did not take the mark of the beast, and will be ushered into the millenial reign of Christ.
mark0454 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Good morning Pat. I hope you are well. Matt 24.31 You said "before we are gathered, or raptured home."
I am not saying that I have all the answers on this question. but let's look at v 30,31.
As I have said, there will be untold multitudes saved during the tribulation. There will also be untold multitudes martyred, as well. Who will be left on earth alive is unsure.
V30 "and all the tribes of earth shall mourn" The Jews are called tribes, the Gentiles nations.
Cont
mark0454 7 months ago
@7olusegun
I'm surprised you think of them dying as a punishment for their stubborness when the apostles and many early christians died for their faith. Some died in horrific ways such as being eaten by lions in public arenas.
What were they being punished for? Look at what happened to stephen and peter.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim The 'normal' tribulations Christians face is relatively 'light' & haphazard worldwide (though it is true some Christians suffered horrifically). These are "out pockets". The great tribulation will be uniform & far more intense than even these "out pockets" & will be global. The Name of Jesus will reach everyone worldwide b/4 rapture occurs, warning people repent (that no excuse might be given). Those that refuse to repent prior to it will be beaten heavily later by the Antichrist.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim What I was talking about (regarding people being punished for their stubbornness) was in relation to AFTER rapture. As for those that refuse to repent & dies (whether b/4 or after the rapture) despite being aware of Christ will be beaten with many stripes (Luke 12:47) while those who died completely ignorant of Christ will receive a few stripes (Luk.12:48). Only God knows how to fairy deal with situations in a good & fair way & with compensations to those that suffered unfairly.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
The thing is though, whether one is saved before the rapture or after, they are still saints. They are still his elect. They are still saved from the wrath to come because of what Jesus has done for them. The bible tells us that they live and reign with Christ.
When we face tribulations and trials it is like a refiners fire, not the wrath of God. He uses them to shape us and teach us things he wants us to know; however, the wrath of God falls upon those that don't believe.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
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Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Rev 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand. The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation....
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.
The above is the wrath we are saved from, whether before or after.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Furthermore, what is the point (or sense) of being raptured (to be with the Lord in the air) after "Christ's spotless bride" is being beaten to a pulp, only to immediately come back to Earth to rule with Christ in His millennial reign? Also when (or how) do you think Rev. 19:9 will occur? Please I need some explanation.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
The days will be cut short for his elects sake.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim That's a 'blanket' answer that appear to be too vague. Nonetheless, the days being 'cut short' is in relation to a remnant: The elect (a remnant c.f. the entire world) will be taken b/4 the great tribulation; a remnant will flee to the mountains; a remnant of the post-trib. converted Christians will be left & also a remnant of the unbelievers on Earth will be left. All b/4 Christ's 2nd coming. This is the main reason why the days will be cut short; for the elects & remnant's sake.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
It would be nice, and I certainly hope for your sake and others that it is before, but sadly, the scriptures do not appear to teach so. He teaches and speaks of the elect being in the trib, Matthew 24, Mark, even Paul speaks of the revealing of the antichrist and a great falling away which happens before we are gathered. This fits with the teaching of Matthew, and other passages.
I hope it is before the trib just the sake of those who believe, I fear for their faith if it doesn't.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
I don't have quite all the answers, and I rightly admit so, but we also see another mention of the supper in verse 17. The church doesn't have to be gathered 7 years before for the supper. We have to remember that time with God is not the same as time with us. When we leave this world in the rapture, many things can happen just before we appear with him.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Good evening Pat. You said: " He teaches and speaks of the elect being in the trib"
Who are the elect?
You said: "a great falling away which happens before we are gathered"
Before who is gathered. Who is gathered from where? Does God ever say that He will gather the Church.
Just asking.
mark0454 7 months ago
@mark0454
Hey there:) I hope you are doing well tonight.
I personally believe we can read of the rapture, or the gathering, in Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, and again in 2 Thess 2:1. I believe they are speaking of the same event. Where we are called up on the day of the Lord when the trumpet sounds and his voice calls out.
The scriptures appear to teach that certain things must come to pass before we are taken to be with him and Paul tells us not to be deceived, thinking that it's happened yet
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
That we must see the rise of the antichrist, and the great falling away, along with the other events in Matthew before we are gathered, or raptured home. The elect, or the saints, are those who have placed their faith in Jesus and he will take them home:)
Whenever that day is, it will be a great day:)
God bless
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
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Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
I also agree that he has a special remnant or elect of Israel. Elect meaning chosen, a people preserved so to speak. They will be from the twelve tribes of Israel, and will be of literal Israel. But he also appears to use the term "elect" for believers as well.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim In Psa.12:6, the Word of God is being fulfilled multiple times, tried & tested 7 times. Xtians had always been hated, persecuted etc, since times past (as His Word being fulfilled in these time pasts). All these 'tribulations' pales into insignificance compared with the "Great Tribulation". We are at the beginnings of the last days, with increments in wars, natural disasters, unexpected pestilences etc. The Antichrist (not yet come) will bring the Great tribulation wrath of God.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
I agree, The troubles to come will definitely make everything else seem pale in comparison. Never has such a time ever been upon the earth and never will again.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim That's part of what I have been try so far. he trials & tribulations that Christians tend to suffer (for Christ's sake) eve upto the time of the rapture is '"very puny" compared with what is to come, that is brought about by the Antichrist himself. The latter is not yet manifested or is hidden to the general world for now (by the hand of God, for His elects' sake). When God removes His hand, the antichrist becomes revealed. It would not make sense for God to remove His hand..contd
7olusegun 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim .contd. while the reason while His hand was staying the antichrist's revelation is left behind (i.e. the Elect's sake), otherwise His holding back of the antichrist would be in vain (i.e. for God to hold back the antichrist, His elect must be very precious to Him. For Him to remove His hand, his precious elect must also be removed, lest they be desecrated or destroyed by the antichrist). For those that repented later, there is still hope of salvation but via the antichrist's fire.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
The problem with that, and I wish it were true, I really do, is that the gathering of the elect doesn't occur until his coming after the tribulation according to matthew 24. We see this mentioned three times in scripture, Mark 13, matthew 24, and 2 thess 2.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim There's no point going on in circles regarding whether the Rapture will occur before of after the great tribulation. Please seek the face of God & ask Him. Whatever He tells you through Christ, let me be aware.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
Sorry to interrupt but to believe in the pre-tri rapture is to wilfully deceive oneself. The events in Revelation absolutely mirror the events of ancient Israel in Egypt. The 7 last plagues in Revelation mirror the Egyptian plagues.
Was ANY Israelite in Egypt raptured so as to escape Pharaoh's wrath? Absolutely not. The pre-trib rapture is a lie designed to take God's people's eyes away from the issue central to the tribulations.
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod Jesus Christ said these last days will be like unto that of Noah (not like unto that of Egypt). In the days of Noah, the entire people were all given into all manner of idolatry including mundane pleasures & all manner of wickedness & vile affections with Nephilim hybrids being in existence, God was entirely forgotten & mocked by them, all flesh were been corrupted on Earth (Gen 6:12), all leading to the extinction of the human race (with the exception of Noah & his family).
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
You are right, there isn't any point:) The most important thing is that we are ready for his return whenever that may be and that if it doesn't happen before that we still keep our faith and walk in the Lord.
God bless:)
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@7olusegun
Just like Israel of old was persecuted by Pharaoh for keeping the Shabbat as Exodus 5:5 about THE REST informs, so will Christians be persecuted for keeping the Shabbat.
Yeshua clearly HINTS that the Shabbat will be kept at the beginning of the tribulations in Matthew 24 & HINTS that it should not be violated when trying to escape to the mountains. Lets not buy into fanciful doctrines & focus on what God says.
Heaven's blessings friend
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod All these evils occurred until Noah was "raptured" into the spiritually door-locked Ark with a week delay BEFORE the global watery wrath of God killed all life on land. One should also note that prior to the great flood, Noah & his family were also persecuted & mocked for almost 100 years by these evil people but alas had the last laugh when the wrath of God came. So this has nothing to do with fanciful doctrines but the truth. We're under grace, not the bondage of the law.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod Thanks for the blessings. God bless..
7olusegun 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod The Pharisees kept the Mosaic law to the letter; yet Jesus Christ gave them large amounts of woe (b'cos of their self righteousness, hypocrisy & refusal to accept Him as the Messiah). Salvation is by the Spirit of God (not by keeping of the law). In this new dispensation, Christ had done away with the 'bondage of the law' (Col. 2:16). It appears God will use the antichrist to punish Israel for rejecting His Son Jesus Christ. Those of the temple will be heavily destroyed.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod This is not to say that those in Christ should be 'lawless' b'cos we ain't under the law. We should reflect the character of Christ by being lawful (both to God & the secular world) for civil peace. For God to recognize our goodness, we have to be in Christ. Note that those that flee into the mountains (far away from the Jewish temple) will be saved & nurtured by God while those of the temple (probably of the orthodox sect) will be heavily destroyed by the lawless evil one.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
9Part A-1)
My friend, thanks for your response but I fear the issue of rapture before the tribulation was not addressed. I suppose it was my fault as I answered my own question so I will ask it of you to help me understand HOW the pre-trib rapture theory is even remotely supported by Scripture.
So here goes, I said the 7 plagues in the book of Rev mirror the Egyptian plagues in Exodus & that the similarities are unmistakable.
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod Hi; all I know & follow regarding the rapture issue is based on what Jesus said (& explained what He meant), not the 'parallels' you might think. Jesus related the last days (including the events & His coming) to the days of Noah. I have said that before. Jesus did not explain the rapture after the plagues of Egypt. Read the bible very well! I will also ask you if the post-trib. rapture is remotely supported in scripture. I have explained previously. What else can I explain?
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
(Part A-2)
These similarities of Ancient Israel exodus to the promised land is exactly like it will be for the exodus of the Israel of God (the Church) to the promised land (Heaven)
So in both, we have the plagues in which Israel is protected from after she suffers from persecution by unbelievers. So my question to you is, did ANY in ancient Israel got raptured before the Pharaoh persecution to escape or did THE WHOLE OF ISRAEL stay in Egypt until the deliverance came FOR ALL??
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod One reason why Jesus might not had likened the rapture to Israel in Egypt & Exodus was b'cos of their hard heartedness & foolishness: After wailing unto God for 400 years & were delivered, their minds & attitudes were such that they always murmured against God & charged Him with folly from saving them from Egypt, with their minds, hearts & physical preparedness into going back into Egypt. This cannot be said of Noah or the true Xtians who always look forward (not backwards).
7olusegun 7 months ago
(@7olusegun
( A-1)
You wrote "One reason why Jesus might not have likened the rapture to Israel in Egypt & exodus was b'cos of their hard heartedness & foolishness"
Isn't that interesting? So the Christians aren't hard hearted & foolish? Actually Christians are exactly in the same position as ancient Israel in terms of rebellion. Ever wondered why the word Babylon is used in Revelation to describe the false church of the antichrist that will persecute the true Commandment keeping Church?
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod Read my statement well. What I said previously was a "PROBABLE" reason, not a "DEFINITE" one. Ain't it also very interesting that you deliberately deviated from the specific teaching of Jesus regarding the "as in the days of Noah" to "as in the days of Israel in Egypt"? Ain't that foolhardy? Israel's captivity in Egypt was not unique. They had also been in captivity in Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, Roman etc & God had delivered them out. So it is no unique thing. in contrast
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
Pt A2
The symbolism in Revelation of the church of the antichrist as Babylon drives home the fact that like ancient Israel before her, the Church, Israel of God, has apostatised & trampled on YHWH'S Shabbat & for this same reason, God is going to punish her with Babylonian rule in the end time.
Pre-trib rapture is a lie that came from the Catholic Church to stop people searching Scriptures & identifying the RCC as the persecuting Babylon & Sunday worship as the beast's mark.
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod...(contd) the event(s) of Noah was far UNIQUE & had not occurred before or after that event since till today (i.e. a global watery catastrophic flood). For this DEFINITE uniqueness, the tribulations to come will be unique, LIKE NO OTHER b/4 or after it (as Jesus said). So what's your problem that you cannot understand the sayings of Jesus regarding the rapture-tribulation chronology but rather you deciding to misinterpret the bible, talking of something entirely tangential?
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun Well in the bible God said he;d never flood the world again so, that's just one instance that is out of the question, it does also say what will happen int he last days far exceeds what any one has ever seen beforehand.
Shadowlooker12 6 months ago
@Shadowlooker12 That time, God used water to destroy the world. This time He will use fire (2 Pet. 3:10-12). So what is out of which question? The Word of God is being fulfilled in multiple world events (not just in only one event; (Psa. 12:6)). What do you think was meant by "the days shall be shortened"? As in the days of Noah & Lot, so shall the coming of Christ be (Mat. 24:37-39; Luk.17:28-29). Now tell me if Noah & Lot took part of the watery & fiery wrath of God respectively. Obviously....
7olusegun 6 months ago
@Shadowlooker12 ..(cont'd) Noah entered into the SPIRITUALLY DOOR LOCKED Ark with a week delay period b/4 the global flood began. Likewise Lot went out of Sodom (etc) b/4 fire & brimstone rained down on those cities. The "coming of the Lord" occurs at the rapture (coinciding with the 1st resurrection; 1 Thes. 4:16-17) & in the beginning of His millennial reign (coinciding with the great tribulation ending). Jesus said His coming shall be like unto those of these 2 men. Did they suffer His wrath?
7olusegun 6 months ago
@7olusegun ''WRATH?'' is not the same as TRIBULATION. Those were NOT taken out of the world, but ''KEPT'' from harm; Joh 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one,,,, Mt 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved
GodsSeer 4 months ago
@GodsSeer Are you not aware that "tribulation" (i.e. persecution) & "great tribulation" are not the same? That the latter dwarfs the former to a greater degree. Ain't you also aware in Revelation, the WRATH of God begins with the opening of the 1st to the 7 seals? The 1st seal of God's wrath begins with the arrival of the antichrist (& the sequel of unparaleled events to follow). Do you also forget that the heart of kings (including satan) are in God's hands & He (God) turns it as He wills in ..
7olusegun 4 months ago
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@GodsSeer Cont'd..order to fulfill His Word. The wrath of God abides to those OUTSIDE of Christ. God will use the antichrist to pour out His wrath on this untoward generation. Christians that will take part in this "Great Tribulation" are those who repented "too late" (i.e. after the rapture). There will be no excuse b/4 God as the Word of God will 1st be spread throughout the world, making everyone on Earth aware of Jesus 7 time to repent, so that no one will accuse God on grounds of ignorance.
7olusegun 4 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod Hi, why not ask The Lord Jesus whether the rapture is pre-tribulation or post-tribulation? I presume you are close to Him since you are ready to meet Him as your name suggests. Whatever He tells you, let me be aware. I cannot explain further what I had already done before.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod
I'm curious, do you believe that the act of fleeing to the mountians violates the sabbath?
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim
The act of fleeing to the mountains certainly violates the Shabbat. The Shabbat is for PRAYER, WORSHIP, not for fleeing.
Acts 16:13 On the Shabbat we went outside the city gates to the river, where we expected to find a place of PRAYER.
So my dearly beloved myhope, as we see here in Acts 16:13, early Christians sought places to PRAY OR WORSHIP on Shabbat, not to proselytize as Sunday keepers claim.
On Shabbat my friend, you should go to Church to PRAY, WORSHIP, ok!
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod
So you believe that Jesus said that because it was against his law to flee for their life on the sabbath? Was it also against the law to flee for their life in the winter? Remember, it's not gonna abruptly change meaning. why he said what he did for winter is the same reason he said for the sabbath, and for mothers with child etc.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim
Well my friend, what can I say? Whatever your understanding of what Jesus meant in Matthew 24 about praying that we won't have to flee on Shabbat when the tribulations begin, what matters is that YOU KNOW that the Shabbat will still be valid for God's people at the time of tribulation.
Thats good enough for me.
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod
What we see is a group of jewish people still keeping all the feasts today(every feast of God), and as a result of their beliefs of the sabbath, they close the gates to their city, making it impossible for anyone to buy/sell or travel great distances in fear of breaking the sabbath.
If one is called to flee on the sabbath, it has nothing to do with really breaking a command(God wouldn't make you guilty cause you flee for your life) The difficulty lies in getting...
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
out of the city with the gates closed. This presents trouble for mothers, or mothers with child especially because it's not like they can scale a wall or anything. This fits with why winter is mentioned as well. It is cold, wet, icy, and is dangerous for traveling. It's not against God's law to flee in Winter, but it is dangerous and hard to do so.
Jesus already showed us that the sabbath wasn't given to hinder man, or because it has power over man. They would be allowed to flee, it just...
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
would be more difficult because of the laws of the land which prevented traveling, or the weather which often does as well.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim
So Yeshua is talking ONLY to Jewish people in Matthew 24?
PreparetomeetthyGod 7 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod
You do have to admit that it has nothing to do with breaking a commandment that he spoke this, because there is no indication of change...the verse speaks of difficulties, problems traveling, and the sabbath command itself poses no problems to that. Dangers and problems trying to travel is what is being spoken of.
If you remember he said that the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath. If it was the other way around it might pose some problem with fleeing, but..
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
it wasn't. You remember jesus saying that because the pharisees were attacking jesus disciples for picking corn because they were hungry. They officially broke the sabbath, but Jesus showed them mercy, and reminded the people that man wasn't made for the sabbath, but rather it was given to benefit, not hinder man.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
The others have nothing to do with breaking commandments, and neither does the usage of the sabbath in that verse.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@7olusegun Good evening Sir. I hope you are well. I think you are using powerful words that have an itentity. Remnant and elect are used throughout the Bible in association with the remnant of God's chosen people, the Jews. Not a remnant of the world, but a remnant that God promised, throughout scripture, he would preserve
Remnant and elect have strong identifying characteristics of the Jews. Now, I am in no way saying that this is concusive proof of a rapture of Christians. Just saying
mark0454 7 months ago
@mark0454 Hi; the 'Word of God' can/is being fulfilled in multiple situations & can be tried/tested 7 times (Psa12:6). "A remnant" is not only in relation to the Jews, but also to Gentiles as well. Though millions will be raptured, this is a relatively small remnant compared with those left behind. At the apocalypse of the red, black & pale horses (in Revelation), billions of people (up to 2/3rds) will be destroyed (also by satanic spirits from the pit) such that only a remnant will be left.....
7olusegun 7 months ago
@mark0454 ..(contd).. When the Beast (Antichrist) pours his world wide armies against Israel, only a remnant will flee to the mountains & be saved. For those that remain in Israel, only a remnant will be alive when Jesus comes (according to the bible), Israel will be heavily destroyed by the beast (Antichrist), though the beast's armies will also be heavily be destroyed at Armageddon. Of the unbelievers& beasts's armies, most will be heavily destroyed by satanic spirits from the bottomless pit..
7olusegun 7 months ago
@mark0454 ..(contd).. also be destroyed by reason of the wars & other catastrophes. As one can see, God always leave/saves a remnant of people. This shows that "salvation" in God via Christ is not only for the Jews, but also for the Greek (or Gentiles) & that God ain't a respecter of persons. Apostle Paul (etc) will bear me witness here! The same God that created the Jew also created the Gentile & He sent His Son Jesus to die for all men, that in Him ALL men are spiritual Jews (His people).
7olusegun 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim As far as the rapture is concerned, IMMEDIATELY after it, only those that DO NOT believe in Christ are left behind. You can be one of them if you want. Who were those in Rev. 20:4 referring to that DID NOT WORSHIP THE BEAST (Antichrist) as seen in the 5th seal of Revelation? This was seen long after the Antichrist's arrival in the 1st seal of Revelation. Who were those in Luk17:34-36 Jesus Himself was referring to that would be taken? Tribulation & Great tribulation aint the same.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@7olusegun
We are all looking for his glorious appearing, but we're told that there are signs that must come first, even Paul stated that the man of Sin and the great falling away must happen first. Some have sought to separate the day of the Lord from the rapture, but anytime the rapture is discussed, or the gathering is discuss it is always at the end of the tribulation.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim If the Rapture is at the end of tribulation (i.e Christians will pass through the GREAT TRIBULATION according to you) & Jesus said these last days shall be like unto that of Noah, then explain to me why Noah did not partake of the global watery flood with the rest of the people that perished OUTSIDE the Ark. Also explain to me why there was a 7 day delay period (i.e. a 'long time') AFTER Noah & his family were 'raptured' b/4 the global watery wrath of God occurred. please explain.
7olusegun 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim The Word of God' has been tried & tested up to 7 times (in being fulfilled) in world events. The "great falling away" began when "grievous wolves" (acts 2:29) infiltrated the true church of Christ, but were not part of them. After learning of the gospel of Christ, broke away & "married" the gospel of Jesus with ancient Babylonian & Egyptian beliefs, to form a new religion that was legalized by Emperor Konstantine of Rome. Priests, clergies & Bishops were formed by this 'new' contd
7olusegun 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim..contd.. religion'. Emperor Konstantine was still in the way of power (2 Thess.2:7). But after his time was up, the religious Roman entities gained both political & religious power (still under the Roman kingdom). This was the birth of the Roman Catholic Church system, which also was the birth of the seat of the antichrist (the wicked one to come). Popes that came & went were antichrists (that did much evil, far worse than their Roman emperors). But THE ANTICHRIST to come will....
7olusegun 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim ...cont'd..will perform far much global wickedness, unparalleled in extensiveness & intensity like no other before him & will be a Nephilim hybrid, directly of the seed of satan & a human woman (probably of Assyrian-Jewish origins). The "day of the Lord" is when the day appointed regarding the fulfillment of the coming of the Lord occurs. He came as Jesus Christ, He will come during the rapture though not to earth) as well as during His Millennial reign & eternity rule on Earth.
7olusegun 7 months ago
Keep up the good work! You are correct the changing into the spiritual body does not occur until the 7th trump! Those who believe in the rapture will fall for the anti-christ at the 6th trump!
utubernaut 9 months ago
Think about it like this.
At the rapture he isn't gonna take us up into the sky with him while hes coming to Earth at the same time to set up his kingdom for the 1000 years. First he takes us up at the rapture BEFORE the Tribulation as seen in Reveltion 3:10 (Thief in the night) then he comes back WITH US to set up his kingdom and make it the kingdom of God and his people.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
Revelation 3:10
"Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you *FROM* the hour of trial that is coming on the *WHOLE WORLD* to test the inhabitants of the Earth."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
THEY KNEW NOTHING about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.
And stop trying to disprove the Rapture. Its already PROVEN FACT, read revelation 3:10 and the verse on Noah I posted bellow.
People will be going through massive Earthquakes, facing the Anti-Christ, seeing angels in the sky, seeing the stars fall, the moon turning red ECT
At his coming when his FEET TOUCH EARTH, he doesn't take anyone with him ANYWHERE. So that means the rapture was BEFORE.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
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So people are partying and marrying when he comes "Like a thief in the night" not going through giant Earthquakes, facing the Anti-Christ, seeing angels in the sky ect. One will be taken and the other left. I think this is what he is talking about in revelation 3:10.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
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As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
So people are partying and marrying when he comes "Like a thief in the night" not going through giant Earthquakes, facing the Anti-Christ, seeing angels in the sky ect. One will be taken and the other left. I think this is what he is talking about in revelation 3:10.
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the WHOLE WORLD to test those who live on the earth."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
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As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
why dont my messages show up..
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
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As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
So people are partying and marrying when he comes "Like a thief in the night" not going through giant Earthquakes, facing the Anti-Christ, seeing angels in the sky ect. One will be taken and the other left. I think this is what he is talking about in revelation 3:10.
"Since you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the WHOLE WORLD to test the inhabitants of the Earth."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mathew 24 37)
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 10 months ago
European Antichrist= False.
Pretribulation rapture=False
Middle-eastern antichrist= True
Posttribulation Rapture= True
Nashhinton 10 months ago
2 th 1:4, 7, 10
So that we ourselves glory in you in the CHURCHES OF GOD for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and TRIBULATIONS that ye endure.
And to you who are troubled, REST with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be REAVEALED from heaven with his mighty angels. WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe. THE CHURCHES OF GOD "REST" WHEN JESUS IS REVEALED WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS, not seven years before that. Be prepared, please
777aej 10 months ago
nice little fearmonger there. Get away from crazy christians and understand that the book of revelation could be what imprisons us in the end. All they have to do is fake all of this through technology and call it magic.
deneco4 11 months ago
In Gen. 7:2; after Noah and his family were in the Ark, there was a seven day "delay period" before the watery wrath of God commenced. If each day been appointed for a year (e.g.as in Ezek. 4:6; Num.14:34), then it is very possible that the tribulation commences 7 years after the rapture occur, with the most intense part of it lasting the last 42 months before the second coming of Christ (with His saints) to Earth occur and the dawning of His millenial reign.
7olusegun 1 year ago
@7olusegun Why speculate when the Bible clearly states:
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV
In the previous chapter it shows that this day Paul is referring to is your so called rapture, when in fact it is the day of the Lord. So find out what this day of the lord is.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono What part of the bible do you know to support your so called "raptureless tribulation"? What do you understand by "a thief in the night" and how could you possibly explain Luk. 17:34-36? Why did God not allow Noah (& his family) to partake & perish of the great global flood? The bible said Jesus Christ is the Head of the church & those in Him are in His complete image & likeness. He was TAKEN UP into heaven (Act 1:9); so likewise will be His bride. 1Cor. 15:51-54 further explains it.
7olusegun 11 months ago
@7olusegun What I'm saying and the Bible is saying is that the "rapture" happens at the same time as the "day of the Lord", and yes this "day of the Lord" comes as a thief in the night, and the elect will be gathered to be with Him.
Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:6, don't let the chapter divisions derail the context. The context shows that this is the "day of the Lord", which is the coming of Christ. When Jesus comes there will be a great sound, a voice and a trumpet.
harmono 11 months ago
@harmono Actually, "a thief in the night" appear to be something sudden and unannounced. the Word of God is always fulfilled in multiple areas. There's a difference between the "rapture" (which will occur unannounced but sudden) & Jesus' second coming which will occur just after the great tribulation, ushering in His millenial reign. If God did not allow Noah & his family to suffer the watery flood (unlike the others), I believe He will not allow His elects to suffer the great tribulation also.
7olusegun 11 months ago
@7olusegun Stop using your own reasoning and just read the Bible. Read 1 Thess 4:16-5:5.
harmono 11 months ago
@harmono Whether it's my own reasoning or what the bible said, thou knowest. In 1Thes 4:16-18, who told you the whole world will be aware of His descent? What is occurring here is entirely in the spiritual. Only those in Him will be spiritually aware & will be CAUGHT UP to be with Him (Luk. 17:34-36). The bible did not say Jesus is coming down to rule the world at this particular time. Read Luk.17:34-36 & provide me a Spirit inspired sensible interpretation. Those in darkness will not be taken.
7olusegun 11 months ago
@7olusegun It says in 1 Thess 4 that Jesus will descend from heaven. You are saying this is spirital. When Jesus ascended to heaven, the Angels said that Jesus would descend in the same manner. Where do you get the idea that this is spirital? Is the resurrection only spiritual? Is the rapture only spiritual? Of course not. So why is the return of Jesus spirutal and not physical? I can't reason with people who take something literal and make it spiritual for no apparent reason.
harmono 11 months ago
@harmono Just answer my question regarding Luk.17:34-36. Moreover, before Jesus died, He was seen by every living man. After He resurrected, He was seen by His disciples & apostles only. These were the only witnesses (save the angels) that saw Him ascend into heaven. He was not seen by those not in Him otherwise the Jewish Pharisees (etc) would not had succeeded in lying to the people & making them to believe that He did not resurrect (as all eyes would had seen Him). You ain't of the truth....
7olusegun 11 months ago
...Hence you cannot reason. What's so hard in understanding the truth? What do you mean by "day of the Lord"? If you interpret 1 Thes.4:16 as Jesus' 2nd coming (i.e. to rule on Earth), then will it make any sense for those in Him to be taken away to be with Him in the air forever while He begin His milenial rule on Earth immediately? Just answer my question on Luk.17:34-36 and also explain to me why God did not allow Noah & his family to partake of the watery flood; why God should change today.
7olusegun 11 months ago
@7olusegun Too many questions at once. One at a time. There is no difference between the rapture happening 7 years earlier or upon his return. He takes the elect up, then wrath on earth happens. Do you think when Jesus establishes His kingdom it will be peaceful, and no judgement? God spared Noah, and also will not harm those who have the seal of God on thier foreheads. A 7 year tribulation is a protestant purgatory for Jews who did not believe?
harmono 11 months ago
@harmono No sir! there is a big difference between the rapture and Christ's 2nd coming (for His millenial reign). Christ's millenial reign will be global, peaceful & bliss/utopian. There will be no satanic influence as satan is bound & cast into the bottomless pit. If you view my previous statements, I said, like in the days of Noah, there will very likely be a 7 year delay period btw the rapture & the global tribulation but it appears the last 3.5 years will be the most devastating.
7olusegun 11 months ago
@harmono @harmono No sir! there is a big difference between the rapture and Christ's 2nd coming (for His millenial reign). Christ's millenial reign will be global, peaceful & bliss/utopian. There will be no satanic influence as satan is bound & cast into the bottomless pit. If you view my previous statements, I said, like in the days of Noah, there will very likely be a 7 year delay period btw the rapture & the global tribulation but it appears the last 3.5 years will be the most devastating.
7olusegun 11 months ago
@7olusegun 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17 can't be a pre-tribulation event because of Acts 3:21
eddienickels1 10 months ago
@eddienickels1 1Thes.4:16-17 refer to the rapture of the Saints. This ain't the second coming of Christ. Not everyone in the world will be aware of this event b'cos this event is occurring in the spiritual. Only those in Christ (on Earth) will witness this event after being taken up. This is also the event in which those who died in Christ (b/4 this event) will first receive their glorified bodies, which is immediately followed by those (in Christ) living on Earth at that time. This is (cont'd).
7olusegun 10 months ago
@7olusegun If you read Acts 3:21 and still believe that you are in for a big surprise. Because 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17 is going to be loud not a secret.
eddienickels1 10 months ago
@7olusegun In all you said you did not put ONE SCRIPTURE to PROVE ANYTHING.
eddienickels1 10 months ago
@eddienickels1 You search the bible scriptures out thoroughly for yourself! Anything you may find contrary to what I have written so far, let me know!
7olusegun 10 months ago