I AGREE ,I SEEN THE WATCHMEN (TWICE) IN THE THEATERS AND THAT WAS BECAUSE I READ THE NOVEL AFTER SEEING THE TRAILER IN THE DARK KNIGHT MOVIE.I REMEMBER THINKING WHEN I WAS IN THE THEATER AND SAW THE WATCHMEN TRAILER HOW I WOULD RATHER SEE WATCHMEN TODAY AND DARK KNIGHT TOMORROW. WATCHMEN WAS THE FIRST COMIC I EVER READ .later that week i went to a comic shop and got the graphic novel.
I didn't get the connection between The Comics Journal and the guy who slagged your Watchmen review for killing the hopes for intelligent comic book movies. That guy was saying comics fans need to uncritically rally behind this film, while the Comics Journal's reputation is based on harsh criticism of sacred cows like the Watchmen comic (which Groth thought overrated). Their idea of an intelligent movie based on a comic book: non-superhero films such as Ghost World and American Splendor.
Comic books which Fantagraphics published...no? I think Watchmen is an overrated comic but Garg Groth is a complete arse imo.
Its like with the Harvey awards which Fantagraphics seems to win a lot of.....with Fantagraphics running the awards you'd think they'd be a bit less shameless about that....
American Splendor is published by Dark Horse and Vertigo, not Fantagraphics. Their publishing of Ghost World isn't relevant to the point that for decades they have advocated for non-superhero comics over superhero comics. Ghost World, by the way, was a storyline in Daniel Clowes's "Eightball," and I know for a fact that The Comics Journal once published a very negative review of Eightball.
My only point, locusmortis, was that the mention of the magazine on this episode didn't make sense given that they would not be likely to praise the film Watchmen or attack those who criticize it. Not to be rude, but the award show malfesance and neoptistic/corrupt reviewing practices you allege aren't really relevant to that point -- they're a separate quarrel you have with the magazine's publisher -- and I don't want to take on the role of debating on their behalf.
The only connection between the CJ and the commenter was the one I made in my head. He sounded to me like one of those "intellectual" comic fans who reads the Journal and I made a joke about it. There really was no malice behind the comment. That's really all there is to it.
Again, this was me being sarcastic and I do understand how it could be off putting to people who don't personally know me.
To me the Journal is just as useless as Wizard. But that's just my opinion,
I don't read the Journal anymore, but comparing them to Wizard is basically absurd, given that Wizard is dedicated to encouraging collector greed, while the Journal has done important journalism advocating for creators such as Jack Kirby (when he was alive), Steve Gerber, Alan Moore, and Rick Veitch, who were all fucked over by Marvel and DC. In the '80s, they were the only media outlet devoting substantial coverage to creators' rights issues and ethical practices in the comic book industry.
Ok. Yes, I'll concede that there was a time when the Journal had a very important voice in the industry that needed to be heard but imho that time has long since passed. It had it's place in comic's history and has become a shadow of it's former self.
The comparison to Wizard, in my mind, is not at all absurd. In their current forms I find both magazines quite useless. For my money I'd rather be reading any one of the great publications by Two-Morrows.
Jose: I agree that the Journal doesn't mean what it once did, and even in its day it was a mixed blessing. Twomorrows pubs are fun, but they aren't very critical, as far as I can tell. They mainly focus on nostalgiac celebration (except for the instructional writing and drawing mags).
That was all a long time ago. Gary Groth started out idealistic but over time it seems the business has got to him too. The rot started with Fantagraphics starting up Eros comics so that they could cash in on a quick buck during the early/mid 90's porn comic phase. Aside from some Wally Wood and Frank Thorne work that was some really bad work and counter to Groths supposed ideals. That and the Harvey awards tainted him in the eyes of lots of former admirers of his.
These days the comics journal is a combination of blatant self promotion and bitter attacks on other comics companies. Like Jose I'd pick Twomorrows magazines as a far more objective look at the comic book industry.
And what I'm saying dosen't mean I dislike all Fantagraphics work, far from it. Chris Ware, Linda Medley and others are great.
Also there is a type of psuedo-intellectual fan who looks down on Marvel/DC fans and I think this is what the lads were alluding to.
I agree there have been a lot of bitter attacks. The self-promotion angle I'm not as convinced of, though there is definitely an argument to be made for conflict of interest. Anyhoo, it's all good. Peace be with you (and me!).
This week (3.18.09) Deadpool Games of Death came out and it was hilarious.
Punisher #3 came out and it was great, Ultimate #3 came out and it was repulsive and stupid issue, like the rest of the series. Amazing spider man #588 was ok.
And Dark Avengers #3 came out, the first half was shit but the second half was fine.
That's where you and I differ. I liked the first half of DA #3 and absolutely HATED the 2nd half. Jose and I will talk about it this week and I'll tell you why.
I'm not really sure how they could have promoted the movie any better though. I mean, he trailers were great (they had my non-comic reading friends quoting Rorshach's "...And I will whisper no" speech non-stop), there was countless advertisements all over the web, and they even made a bad game tie-in, action figures, etc. What I want to know is if the movie or the hype surrounding it convinced more people to read the graphic novel because TDK sure as hell didn't for Batman comics.
Yes!!!! someone else who hates the Comics Journal.
I do believe every comic fan should read the magazines by twomorrows publishing though, like Back Issue, Jack Kirby Collector and Alter Ego, I feel more comic fans should really dig into the history of comics and the writers and artists.
And yep...good analysis of the what happened with Watchmen....funnily enough the same thing happened with Joss Whedons Serenity and firefly fanatics had the same reactions as that Watchmen fan...
I AGREE ,I SEEN THE WATCHMEN (TWICE) IN THE THEATERS AND THAT WAS BECAUSE I READ THE NOVEL AFTER SEEING THE TRAILER IN THE DARK KNIGHT MOVIE.I REMEMBER THINKING WHEN I WAS IN THE THEATER AND SAW THE WATCHMEN TRAILER HOW I WOULD RATHER SEE WATCHMEN TODAY AND DARK KNIGHT TOMORROW. WATCHMEN WAS THE FIRST COMIC I EVER READ .later that week i went to a comic shop and got the graphic novel.
RODNEY383 2 years ago
what would you guys say say is your favorites super-hero movie. (mine is The Dark Knight)
herosymbiote 2 years ago
I didn't get the connection between The Comics Journal and the guy who slagged your Watchmen review for killing the hopes for intelligent comic book movies. That guy was saying comics fans need to uncritically rally behind this film, while the Comics Journal's reputation is based on harsh criticism of sacred cows like the Watchmen comic (which Groth thought overrated). Their idea of an intelligent movie based on a comic book: non-superhero films such as Ghost World and American Splendor.
Pinkhamsterino 2 years ago
Comic books which Fantagraphics published...no? I think Watchmen is an overrated comic but Garg Groth is a complete arse imo.
Its like with the Harvey awards which Fantagraphics seems to win a lot of.....with Fantagraphics running the awards you'd think they'd be a bit less shameless about that....
locusmortis 2 years ago
American Splendor is published by Dark Horse and Vertigo, not Fantagraphics. Their publishing of Ghost World isn't relevant to the point that for decades they have advocated for non-superhero comics over superhero comics. Ghost World, by the way, was a storyline in Daniel Clowes's "Eightball," and I know for a fact that The Comics Journal once published a very negative review of Eightball.
Pinkhamsterino 2 years ago
My only point, locusmortis, was that the mention of the magazine on this episode didn't make sense given that they would not be likely to praise the film Watchmen or attack those who criticize it. Not to be rude, but the award show malfesance and neoptistic/corrupt reviewing practices you allege aren't really relevant to that point -- they're a separate quarrel you have with the magazine's publisher -- and I don't want to take on the role of debating on their behalf.
Pinkhamsterino 2 years ago
The only connection between the CJ and the commenter was the one I made in my head. He sounded to me like one of those "intellectual" comic fans who reads the Journal and I made a joke about it. There really was no malice behind the comment. That's really all there is to it.
Again, this was me being sarcastic and I do understand how it could be off putting to people who don't personally know me.
To me the Journal is just as useless as Wizard. But that's just my opinion,
Jose
comicculturewarrior 2 years ago
I don't read the Journal anymore, but comparing them to Wizard is basically absurd, given that Wizard is dedicated to encouraging collector greed, while the Journal has done important journalism advocating for creators such as Jack Kirby (when he was alive), Steve Gerber, Alan Moore, and Rick Veitch, who were all fucked over by Marvel and DC. In the '80s, they were the only media outlet devoting substantial coverage to creators' rights issues and ethical practices in the comic book industry.
Pinkhamsterino 2 years ago
Ok. Yes, I'll concede that there was a time when the Journal had a very important voice in the industry that needed to be heard but imho that time has long since passed. It had it's place in comic's history and has become a shadow of it's former self.
The comparison to Wizard, in my mind, is not at all absurd. In their current forms I find both magazines quite useless. For my money I'd rather be reading any one of the great publications by Two-Morrows.
Jose
comicculturewarrior 2 years ago
Jose: I agree that the Journal doesn't mean what it once did, and even in its day it was a mixed blessing. Twomorrows pubs are fun, but they aren't very critical, as far as I can tell. They mainly focus on nostalgiac celebration (except for the instructional writing and drawing mags).
Pinkhamsterino 2 years ago
That was all a long time ago. Gary Groth started out idealistic but over time it seems the business has got to him too. The rot started with Fantagraphics starting up Eros comics so that they could cash in on a quick buck during the early/mid 90's porn comic phase. Aside from some Wally Wood and Frank Thorne work that was some really bad work and counter to Groths supposed ideals. That and the Harvey awards tainted him in the eyes of lots of former admirers of his.
locusmortis 2 years ago
These days the comics journal is a combination of blatant self promotion and bitter attacks on other comics companies. Like Jose I'd pick Twomorrows magazines as a far more objective look at the comic book industry.
And what I'm saying dosen't mean I dislike all Fantagraphics work, far from it. Chris Ware, Linda Medley and others are great.
Also there is a type of psuedo-intellectual fan who looks down on Marvel/DC fans and I think this is what the lads were alluding to.
locusmortis 2 years ago
I agree there have been a lot of bitter attacks. The self-promotion angle I'm not as convinced of, though there is definitely an argument to be made for conflict of interest. Anyhoo, it's all good. Peace be with you (and me!).
Pinkhamsterino 2 years ago
Also, thanks in advance for helping us with some content/ideas for this weeks new episodes. You'll see what I mean.
Jose
comicculturewarrior 2 years ago
This week (3.18.09) Deadpool Games of Death came out and it was hilarious.
Punisher #3 came out and it was great, Ultimate #3 came out and it was repulsive and stupid issue, like the rest of the series. Amazing spider man #588 was ok.
And Dark Avengers #3 came out, the first half was shit but the second half was fine.
saar1707 2 years ago
That's where you and I differ. I liked the first half of DA #3 and absolutely HATED the 2nd half. Jose and I will talk about it this week and I'll tell you why.
Elliott
comicculturewarrior 2 years ago
I'm not really sure how they could have promoted the movie any better though. I mean, he trailers were great (they had my non-comic reading friends quoting Rorshach's "...And I will whisper no" speech non-stop), there was countless advertisements all over the web, and they even made a bad game tie-in, action figures, etc. What I want to know is if the movie or the hype surrounding it convinced more people to read the graphic novel because TDK sure as hell didn't for Batman comics.
jadekite22 2 years ago
Agreed, there's no fucking way I'm paying to read Dark Avengers.
AirborneBryan 2 years ago
Have you guys seen the "
Im a Marvel, Im a DC" videos by JustSomeRandomGuy yet? If so, why have you not yet made a video on awesome those vids are?
BlackPhoenix06 2 years ago
Yes!!!! someone else who hates the Comics Journal.
I do believe every comic fan should read the magazines by twomorrows publishing though, like Back Issue, Jack Kirby Collector and Alter Ego, I feel more comic fans should really dig into the history of comics and the writers and artists.
And yep...good analysis of the what happened with Watchmen....funnily enough the same thing happened with Joss Whedons Serenity and firefly fanatics had the same reactions as that Watchmen fan...
locusmortis 2 years ago