Sony Reader PRS-505 - What Sony Doesn't Want You to Know Before You Buy

[kairia]

where did you get the dictionary

[wuzzum]

I love the music!!!!! Can't believe that someone would criticize such great stuff. No taste. As for the reader, you are showing a worst case scenario. I would not want to read pdf format on a reader not designed for such. Epub is where it's at, and the sony prs-505 does a very fine job with these, and many other formats. But thanks again for the music!

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@wuzzum As for the music, indeed. G.F. Handel is arguably one of the greatest composers of all time, and the Water Music is one of his masterpieces. De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum, but only a complete Philistine would send the Water Music to the trash heap.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@wuzzum By the way, am I also the only one to notice that except for some minor details, readers have essentially not changed since then? I am still waiting for a genuinely usable format for professional use, such as letter and/or DIN A4.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@wuzzum I agree, sort of. The point is that Sony was heavily advertising the PDF capabilities, while knowing perfectly well that these were less than adequate. That is misleading, and it is dishonest. Dismissing Sony's dishonesty as "well, it wasn't made to do this anyway" is unfair to the buyer, and is trying to cover up something that would be considered a crime in some countries, and should be considered as such in all countries: it is a misrepresentation, and Sony knew it.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@BartBVanBockstaele However, it must be admitted that the epub format does indeed work quite a bit better.

[dtz1000]

I think the music matches the prs-505 perfectly. Slow and plodding most of the time.

[dtz1000]

I own both the prs 505 and Kindle. This video is not an exaggeration. I recently tried the same pdf file on both machines. The sony took about 5 seconds to change the page but the kindle was almost instantaneous and took only half a second. That makes a huge difference to your enjoyment of the material.

Trust me, you all need to get the kindle 3 because it utterly destroys the prs 505, not just in page turn speed but in almost every single way you can think of.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@dtz1000 Thanks. I have both the 505 and the 700. The 700, while somewhat faster, is -in many ways-an even bigger disaster than the 505.

I have been hesitating to buy the Kindle DX since it is the only larger format reader still around, but I am afraid that the disadvantages are not minoré

[doreengreen99]

I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of people who bought the Reader solely or mainly to use it with a Japanese/English dictionary must have been bitterly disappointed with its performance.

On the other hand, those of us who bought it to read novels, etc, continue to be delighted with its performance.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@doreengreen99 I love it. You are essentially expressing what I was trying to show. I would have had no axe to grind if Sony had made it clear to the potential buyer (and not just to the buyer) that its unqualified claim that the device can read PDF files is an exaggeration.

The device is no longer on the market, so the point is moot by now. Otherwise, I would make it a point to show how fast this device is breaking down.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@Moneymarko21 I'm impressed. A true intellectual.

[SaveyourSavior]

i dont have time to wait ten minutes per page flip :P

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@SaveyourSavior Books that are not of this type, flip a lot faster. However, they are still substantially slower than their traditional paper counterparts. In those cases, it's a bit of a trade-off. I prefer to carry a small and light ebook to a kilo or two of traditional books. In return, I am prepared to put with the irritating slowness. However, it's hardly a secret that the book in this example, is one I continue to carry in its paper form ^_^.

[fafaforza]

Hmm, what's the point of this video? That it takes time to display PDF files? That it's cumbersome when you choose to view it in landscape? Gee whittacers., I think anyone would admit that.

One should know that you could easily use pdf2lrf to do the conversion and have page turns that are fraction of the time than what's shown.

Reading a dictionary page by page is kind of pointless anyway.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@fafaforza Actually, the point is to show that most scanned PDFs are rendered horribly on this device, and that they are extremely slow. What I did not know yet at the time, is that there is an additional condition to make them so bad: OCR. A scanned PDF that has been OCR'ed by Acrobat, using the Clearscan method, is the slowest of all.

Yes, there are alternatives to PDF. No, that does not change in any way the fact that these PDF's perform very badly.

[fafaforza]

I don't know your definition of "horrible." I've read a number of PDF books on my 505, including somewhat technical ones about Linux certification, and although not optimal, it wasn't bad and I got through them.

Resizing a letter A document into a 6 inch screen can not end in anything but tears. Did Sony lie by saying they support PDF? No. Can you do your own research and ask on various eReader communities about PDF support before buying? Yes.

I'd still recommend using pdf2lrf.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@fafaforza I think that my definition of horrible becomes clear when one watches the video. It has not been sped up, it has not been slowed down. It shows the real speed at which the device handles this file.

It is great that you have better experiences. I have as well, but I also have the bad experiences shown in the video. Hence, the device is not nearly as useful as hoped for by many who are in a similar situation.

As for finding information: indeed. This video is one of the sources.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@fafaforza Recommending pdf2lrf is a good illustration of my point.

And you are right: reducing letter/A4 format documents to the small screen should not be expected to be wonderful. A criticism can be made here as well, however: turning the device to landscape mode only increases the width from 600 pixels to 800 pixels (obvious to anyone), and splits the page (hooray), but in no more than two screens (ouch). JPEGs are handled better, but are impractical for other reasons.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@fafaforza In short: is my life better with the device than without? Yes. Just not as much better as it could be.

Unfortunately, we will have to wait for life to become substantially better. Iliad is problematic, Kindle DX not big enough, the highly anticipated QUE turned out to be really disappointing and Skiff seems to have evaporated before a prototype was shown.

So, the near-universal e-book reader is still a dream.

[soundmusiclover]

thanks for the video. it has totally put me off it. yes it is a great device but this would really annoy me. perhaps the touch will be better? but i know the contrast on the touch is slightly worse.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@soundmusiclover You should take into account that these are scanned pages. Text-based PDFs work better, but they come with their own set of problems, not the least of which is often a very strange way of handling textflow.

The touch will be a bit faster, but not much. In all, I would say that these are great devices for reading fiction (novels, Bible, Qur'an...), but not for much else.

[soundmusiclover]

@BartBVanBockstaele I am in the market for one as my main reading medium but I need one that can handle pdf's much better. I think these readers have massive potential despite everything else thats available (ipad-netbooks etc) but it is still early days for them. Its unfair to do a direct comparison but they are also over priced at the moment when you compare them to a netbook, im sure as the technology gets better and more available things will improve.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@soundmusiclover It seems that we are in a similar situation. I have been thoroughly disappointed by the readers (I have both a 505 and a 700), but their potential remains great. I am waiting for a full A4-format reader. In fact, that form factor would in itself be enough to solve most (but not quite all) of my issues with these readers.

I have a Eee PC Touch tablet as well. It is great, but not a replacement for a true A4-format reader.

[SuperBigChina]

I've tried lots of PDF's, it seems that only image based pdf's can not be zoomed in or out, but i've tried a lot, and those were the least. There are great pdf's tools to convert them into text so that the reader treats them as text and not as images. So i'm pretty sure most PDF's will serve, the worst example in the world is the one shown in the video, it's a really heavy PDF based upon images, so it's basically asking for the reader to handle 630 large images quickly, which is not fair.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@SuperBigChina Not quite. You are conflating "zooming" and "increasing size". In the Sony Readers PRS-505, you can increase the size of characters, but you cannot "zoom". Because of that, you cannot increase the size of scans in PDFs. With the PRS-700 however, "increasing size" and "zooming" are both possible. With that one, zooming in on a scan *is* possible. Unfortunately, it is slow and crash-prone.

[bidermaier]

Imo it was a mistake to make the sony reader compatible with pdf. The screen is too small and the processor too slow to deal with tipical pdf.

But for text and normal sized books it is perfect.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@bidermaier I agree completely. It seems obvious that Sony has included this pdf-compatibility as a marketing gimmick. It is hard to believe that they didn't know that it would often turn out to be less than useful. Also, the box did contain a sheet explaining that not all PDFs were compatible, something they conveniently forget to mention in their marketing materials. This is not just misleading. It is willful dishonesty.

[ash3aree]

HI , i have a sony reader the same as yours , i am pretty sure it's much faster than yours .

i would format that reader if i were you .

and i recommend you try the prgram pdflrfwin 0.99 it's awesome

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@ash3aree I know of those solutions. I agree. However, that was not the point I was trying to make. I was merely trying to show that people should not expect this thing to be fully functional with PDFs, contrary to what Sony suggested. Sony is dishonest, and I am merely pointing that out, while providing evidence for that claim.

[jeremykemp]

The Sony device, Nook and iPad all import the open and free .epub format. I have an anatomy of the file format described in this video. Cut and past on the end of the video address: vvGrFZdSDww

[spinspermy]

Is this because the book is of large size, like 100 mb or so, and another thing I've been wondering if scanned pdf books are readable or not, and whether zooming would work it through or not.

[WarbirdGames]

Just to throw in my POV, it's true that a PDF *can* consist of scanned images as pages, but I think when Sony claims the system reads PDFs, and in fact now performs some nice re-flow with the newer firmware and newer models, we really understand that to be PDFs with text, not scanned images compressed into a PDF, as this is a very inefficient way to store and display a book. It takes far more space, and tends to be slower even on a computer. For diagrams and picture books, laptops are best.

[WarbirdGames]

It's great that you pointed this out, as anyone who does specifically need to read scanned PDFs may be enlightened here, but most people looking to read standard text based books will experience an infinitely smoother read. FYI, I have heard that saving a comic or other image-based book as a .CBR/.CBZ and converting it to the Sony book format via the Calibre software, which will also send it to the device, works much better as far as performance.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@WarbirdGames I think you got what I intended to show: that the device is not compatible with certain PDFs. That's all I wanted to show, for there are droves of people in this situation (even though they are probably a minority among the readers). And yes, you are right, converting to another format *will* improve usability.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@WarbirdGames I agree completely. Except that, in professional environments, the majority of PDF files are really scans. That is unfortunate, but that does not make it untrue. Which is why I made the video. Laptops are indeed best for these, except: you can't read them (at least not comfortably, or even not at all) when sitting outside in a sunny environment, which is precisely why readers are so attractive.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

No, I don't filter comments. I believe in free speech.

There are workarounds for PDFs, but it depends very much on the page size. I have my two Sony's since more than a year now, and my opinion is essentially unchanged: they are useful, but only in a limited fashion. I have supplemented them with a tablet PC. Not an ideal situation. It seems we will still have to wait for a while to get something more universally usable.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@lblfg

Very refined. I am sure you had to study for many years to come up with such a surprising comment.

[nemesis3001]

Yes, and now post a review whilst viewing a PDF that doesnt consist solely of images..

Both the PRS-505 and 600 are far faster at rendering PDFs containing mostly text as opposed to mostly scanned images.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@nemesis3001

No one is disputing that, least of all myself. However, this video was about showing something that does not work as it should, not about singing its praises. Others have done that at length already.

[uchman247]

This guy used the least compatible types of docs to make this video which is very misleading. Most people buy eBook readers to read text-based books/novels not scanned and OCR'd pdfs and images. Yes, every product has things they are not good and you are still within your rights to return it as not fit for purpose. So, I really don't see the issue. Ive had my PRS-505 for 6 months & absolutely love it. Use Calibre to convert your pdfs and you're good to go. If you want an eBook reader, buy this

[BartBVanBockstaele]

This guy was just showing something that Sony conveniently forgets to mention, nothing more. That is not misleading, it is telling the truth.

Oh, and while you may well be living in a region/country where they take returns, that is far from being the case everywhere. I am originally from Belgium, the ability to return something was something I discovered in Toronto. Even then, however, the waste of time caused by misleading advertising is not exactly negligible.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@uchman247 This guy has shown exactly that: that there are documents that are (nearly) not compatible with this device. That is not misleading. It is true. You are shooting at the wrong party. It is Sony that created these incompatibilities, and that neglects to mention them before you buy. Don't shoot at the messenger. Shoot at the manufacturer.

[rancwr]

I think this is a little misleading.

It is one example of "real life reading a book" but not the one for which most people will use the Reader. The majority of people will be using the book with ePub books which display and navigate much faster than scanned images of books as shown here.

I have several friends who have the 505, and I've used it and never experienced anything close to what you're displaying here.

[alcharles733]

I enjoy my Sony reader. It works well under normal reading and the battery life is very good.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@alcharles733 Depending on what you understand as "normal" reading, so do I, and I actually enjoy the 505 more than the 700, although I still use the 700 when I am reasonably sure that I will need light. The battery life positively sucks in those cases, however.

[alcharles733]

@BartBVanBockstaele

Normal is a book not filled with pictures, etc. I have one warning to share, the costs of ebooks are rather high when compared to purchasing older books by an author you decide to follow. What you can get old and used for under a dollar runs about 6 to 7 times that.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Thank you. Clearly, your normal isn't mine, that's why it is important to actually know what we mean with such general terms.

I completely agree with the price of e-books being rather too high in many cases. So far, I haven't bought any, for precisely that reason. Even with new books, it is often cheaper to buy the paper version in a local book store, and then scan it, than to buy the e-book. It makes no sense, but it is often true.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Another reason I dislike e-books is the fact that they are often tied to one specific device, which defeats the purpose of an e-book. I can buy a paper book when I'm 9, and still read it when I'm 99 and then pass it on to the next generation. Obviously, it is less than likely that I will be able to do so with an e-book. In other words, e-books are even more expensive than they already seem at first glance.

[SuperBigChina]

Adult oriented books (or non-exclusive kids books) are most of them just text with very very few images to none. So maybe your reading is loaded with images, but normal just means common, and common books, by vast majority are more words than images. Also i read it depends on the format you convert your files before viewing them on the PRS-505.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@SuperBigChina Unfortunately, many academic books, magazines and articles do contain pictures and graphs, and become useless or difficult to follow without them. Second: the point was not to instruct people in how to convert files. The point was to show that certain files are not compatible with the device in spite of what Sony says.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@rancwr Maybe, but since Sony *does* claim that it reads PDFs and does *not* say that certain PDFs are genuine nightmares, there is nothing misleading about showing exactly that.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@rancwr I am happy for you. In my case, unfortunately, the vast majority of books are like what I show here. And there are many academics in the same situation. Now, it is fine to say that the device is not suited to these documents. Just don't call it misleading when it is pointed out. It is Sony who is misleading by claiming compatibility that does not really exist. I am merely the messenger pointing that out.

[Megatron666]

I had an option to buy the PRS-505, however, I was told the processor was slow in reading PDFs as you have demonstrated by this video. The PRS-600 was a huge disappointment. The touchscreen adds too much glare and it definitely lacks that pop that the e-ink display on the 505 has. I wish they made something as large as the prs-600 without the touchscreen. It's definitely the touchscreen because the PRS-300, which lacks it looks like the PRS-505. Thanks for posting.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@Megatron666 And the 600 is actually better than the 700, screen-wise. I am now simply waiting for something bigger to show up, say, something of DIN A4 size.

[Altermedicine]

wtf is with the music, r u retardet

[BartBVanBockstaele]

What a brilliant and insightful remark!

[igorigosta]

if it's a pdf it's normal that it takes so long to load!

[Joselemitele1]

Only a dumb read a ebook with scanned images. LOL what a DUMB!!!

[BartBVanBockstaele]

And of course, a genius like you knows how to transform scanned images into text. Please *do* enlighten us!

[serpentax]

thanks, this is really what i've been worrying about. most ebooks i have are scanned images with detailed diagrams. now i know to wait a while longer until the technology improves.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I suggest you keep an eye on the PlasticLogic reader, scheduled to come out sometime next year. That one will have a letter (or DIN A4?) format screen and will therefore be eminently more usable.

[richcoolerearth]

Pffft. These are scanned images. The 505 is meant as a text reader.

Watch the youtube video "PRS-505 demo" to see how people would normally use it.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Is meant as, or is no good for anything else?

It is just too easy to see that something doesn't work, and then to claim it wasn't "meant" to be. Since Sony never stated that scanned images were no good, and since they claimed that PDFs could be read, I think you know the answer to this issue. But hey, maybe Sony *did* say this type of thing was no good nor intended. You have any evidence? I will then publicly apologize.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

By the way, I meant what I said. I am a scientist, and I want the truth to come out, regardless of where it leads.

[bigkingsha]

I bought the 300 but took it back - i'm going to try the 600....trust me, the 300 is WAY faster...but pretty small, very compact - fits in your pocket - but no memory slots...sucks. I had no idea the 505 was this slow, wow.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

You are probably going to like the 600. It is the first Sony reader fast enough to take handwritten notes. The size is still very much a limiting factor though.

[ps249]

Gosh the Sony looks annoying and slow as a tank.

[joserpm]

What do you know about the PRS-300? I know it's an inch smaller, but it being newer, have you tried it out? Is it faster?

Oh, and is that Mozart, or what classical music piece is that?

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I haven't tried the PRS-300. It is unlikely that I will. The 505 and the 700 are already too small for most of my needs. It is safe to say that the 300 will be next to completely unusable for me.

As for the music, it is the Ouverture of Handel's "Music for the Royal Fireworks".

[UberMan5000]

Did it take a full seven minutes to read past the cover and opening pages of a book?

This is making an Astak EZ Reader seem awfully appealing all of a sudden.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Yes. What you see is exactly what happened.

That said:this is, in my experience, only the case with certain types of pdf files. Unfortunately, these are precisely the types of which I have lots.

Pure text, such as txt or rtf is far, far faster, but they do suffer from certain inconveniences as well.

[pojo55699]

looks like it takes forever to read pages ... too bad

[camorramerda]

Does it mean that it can read also scans in PDF? I am not referring to OCRred stuff... just pictures of the book in pdf... is that so?

[BartBVanBockstaele]

You are quite correct. That is indeed what it can do. However, you must take into account that the maximum resolution is 800x600 and that this *includes* white margins. You cannot magnify beyond this. For that, you would need the PRS-700, and its so-called "zoom" functionality which is limited, horribly slow and very crash-prone.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I currently have two (2) books where reading the scanned PDF as an image worked really very well: Jun Maeda's "Let's Study Japanese" and Barron's "Japanese Grammar" The reason? The pages in these books are so small that the image (contained in the PDF) on the reader is actually a magnification of the original...

Therefore, for similar documents (Berlitz's travel guides and language booklets come to mind), the PDF functionality is actually a true asset. Just not for anything else.

[LiberalXXX]

I can't read so this would't be prudent for me!

[rgtaayes]

Did you try the FREE calibre program , it's pretty good at conversion to sony's format.

I understand that some pdf's in pdf format can go slow, but I have the prs-505 and it works great on the pdf's I have converted.

Also, are you using the SD CARD or is this going from internal memory because I believe it might be slower if from card. Also I only have 20 books on my internal memory and pages turn FAST.

Now I would not use this device for pdf's that are technical and had lots of diagrams.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I have Calibre. Unfortunately, Calibre has some problems of it is own, conversion-wise. However, that is not important here. The point was to show that there are severe limitations to the Reader's capabilities regarding PDF files. Sony doesn't mention those in its sales literature, at least implicitly suggesting that such problems are not to be expected.

You are right, by the way. Technical pdf's can be a horror story on the Reader.

[gulfspex]

This video is clearly misleading as no-one in their right mind would ever attempt to open a 692-page PDF made of images on a device like this.

The use of special fonts for title & credits suggest this to be the case here, not to mention the mixture of japanese & roman fonts which would be near-impossible to OCR.

It's a bit like driving your car in first gear & complaining about the lack of speed. It _can_ be done, but nobody actually does it, and then complain about the car's poor performance.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Wrong comparison. A fair one would be to expect a page to be shown with a greater resolution than the specifications allow.

It is not misleading in any way to show the truth, which is what Sony does not do. Worse, they are very aware of their unethical advertising. They have been getting so many complaints that they are now including a warning with the device itself. The unethical part is that they do not make this warning available to the potential buyer.

[10p6]

If you try reading the book in portrait mode as it was designed, instead of landscape mode, it would be fine! It's not rocket science.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

No it wouldn't. There is a reason Sony provided landscape mode.

[meowmmmmm]

I have a PRS-700 and run the book and it works fine in portrait mode. The landscape mode is simply to allow more area to zoom the text in.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

That is correct.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Those text pdf's are less than stellar as well on the reader, by the way. Maybe I should make a video to show that as well.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

As I said: this is simply reading a book. You don't want to hear that? Fine. I agree that this is a book that the reader has a hard time displaying. I have the distinct impression that I made that abundantly clear. That's what the video shows.

As for ratings and comments: no, they are not disabled. Not by me, anyway. How could they be disabled, if you are able to comment?

[edisonphono1]

Your description STILL says: "When one is simply reading a book." As I've said before, this is NOT a book that the Reader will have a good time displaying. There's too much data. I don't think that most consumers would want to spend that much time scanning a book anyway--not worth it. A "book" for the reader is a text pdf (which by the way are superb on it), lrf or epub. Your description still says false things. Also, I wonder why ratings and comments were disabled last night? Suspicious...

[joule79]

This must be the most idiotic video on youtube. You can't use a device with a keyboard for a dictionary, it doesn't make sense and there are thousands of devices better suited to the task. For reading books the PRS is PERFECT and I never seen such long delays. Even converting your awful scanned ilegal dictionary to epub or lrf will make it go a lot faster, but even without doing that, the prs works perfectly fine, if it is not 100% large images on pdf.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

What deep insight.

I didn't know that this device had a keyboard. Should I complain?

If the device is perfect for reading books, why would it not be so for reading dictionaries? I thought that dictionaries were books. Am I mistaken? Dear me.

What makes you think that my awful scanned dictionary is illegal? It is my dictionary. I scanned it. I am allowed to do with my property as I please, am I not? Please enlighten us.

What's so awful about this dictionary?

[joule79]

You missed my point. Get a device with a keyboard, and made for reading dictionaries to read a dictionary. There are tons in the market. To read books (not scanned, mind, all devices struggle with large images, even pcs), the PRS is perfect. I think you are finding a specific fault and complaining just to get views. Btw, your battery must suck too doing that, why didn't you show that?

[BartBVanBockstaele]

You neglect a few points. Dictionaries are books. They do not have keyboards, and they have worked fine for centuries.

Only a small minority of dictionaries is available in keyboarded devices, and those that are, usually contain subsets of the information. The dictionary shown is *not* available, for example, in electronic form. I happen to have scanned (nearly) my entire library, the vast majority of books in it, are not available in electronic form .

[joule79]

If you took the work of scanning it, maybe try ocr... anyway, I don't think you will be happy reading a dictionary with the PRS (I know I wasnt) since one thing it is NOT good at, is finding a page in a 900 page document. If ocr, you may have a faster experience, but it won't be pretty. Dictionaries don't have keyboards, but they have fast-access mechanisms as you might now, while the prs doesn't and would only work better with a keyboard. Dictinaries are not books, they don't read sequentially.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Most books that are not novels or similar other simple-text books, are not usable unless scanned. Try to use the reader to read calculus, or chemistry, or any other science.

[joule79]

Again, I sure hope it was, but the technology is simply not ready for text books and dictionaries. Those are not read sequentally like books, you need good indexes and this devices are simply not ready to do it. Showing how slow it is switching pages though, is simply misleading.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Books are read sequentially. In what way then, is showing how slow it is to switch pages misleading? It is the normal use of a book!

[joule79]

Books are usually made of text, not hundreds of images in a me-too format.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

You object to telling people about certain limitations, that is your right. Know that thousands of people in the academic world have bought this device, and are invariably disappointed because they were led to believe that certain things were possible, and they aren't.

You don't like that? Fine by me. Stick with the marketing speak. If you think that is sufficient, you are not the public I am targeting.

[joule79]

I object to telling people "the speed sucks" when speed is fine, except for loading hundreds of images, which is clearly an exception. Try again with a correctly ocred document and speed is just fine. Then you can post a video "browsing and presentation sucks", and I will wholeheartedly agree with you.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Oh, so when it works fine, it sucks. I see.

This is about a book that has been scanned to PDF, OCR'd and is being used. If you don't get that, you don't understand why many in the academic world have bought it and were disappointed.

The device is not good for this, and this video shows that. You don't like it? Neither do we.

You don't want it known? We do. This is an early adopter device with lots of lacunae. That deserves to be known.

[joule79]

I love of it being known, it is an early adopter device, you are not using it properly and you complain about the device itself. You can make it go faster if you want, you simply don't want.

It doesn't look ocred to me at all, it looks like huge images. Try calibre.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

@joule79 Nope. It is OCR'd. OCR'd by Acrobat. It does indeed look like images. That's what OCRing by Acrobat is all about.

[arash2mohammadi]

this realy is what i guessed, i have the same problem with my slow nokia mobile to browse pdf file the problem becomes more visible when you try to search through it

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I am guessing, though I cannot compare, that the Sony Reader is somewhat faster than the Nokia, but it is definitely not fast.

[joule79]

Don't take this review as fact, go to a store and see the PRS, it is MUCH faster than this video shows... as all computers, it struggles with large images, the reviewer is showing a PDF (which is not the PRS's best handled format) that is completely made out of images. I have a couple of dragonball books converted to lrf, and they take ~1s to switch pages.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Are you suggesting I slowed down the video?

You compare Dragonball to an OCR'd pdf?

[arash2mohammadi]

you must be working for sony :) anyway does it really shows the PDF's bookmark ?and yes i would use it with text version of PDF but as i heard the 505 is slower than its 700 version and 700 model comes with a pour quality LCD which makes my decision harder, and for your suggestion i must tell you that in my country this product is unavailable, so i must take an order through internet or ask a friend to buy for me :( so if you were instead of me which of them you would buy?

[joule79]

Actually, the screen in the 700 is better, but they made it touch-screen, the extra layer used for the touch is what makes it (according to reviews, I've never seen one) unreadable. Anyway, the thing I hate about the 700 is that they removed all buttons; to switch pages you have to flick your finger on the screen. That is ridiculous, it is way easier to just have the next/previous page buttons, than to move your whole arm just to switch pages. I'd go with the 505 because of the screen and this.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I agree with this. However, the 700 is most definitely not unreadable, merely more difficult to read, and more uncomfortable to read. It feels a bit like reading a book behind a window.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

The 500 is definitely slower than the 700. The screen is not LCD, however. It is e-ink, a completely different technology.

Depending on the use you make, you may well have to choose the 700. The 700 can "zoom in" on pages, something the 505 cannot do. (I have both, so it is easy to compare them ^_^)

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I hardly ever use the 505 anymore. Why? Because it is a bit of a hassle to swap cards all the time, and because the 700 has built-in lighting. It is very unpleasant lighting, but it does make it possible to read in places that are badly lit, such as subway waiting platforms. Otherwise, the 505 is far more pleasant to read. However, in bright sunlight (the summer is coming), the 700 is certainly not particularly unpleasant to read, even though the 505 is undeniably *more* pleasant.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

A big advantage of the 505 in comparison to the 700, is the reading history. That is -in my opinion- far better than the 700's.

I wasn't excited about the note-taking ability of the 700, but using it has changed my mind. I really like it, even though it is far too slow to be pleasant.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

That is a great reason to buy the reader! You will clearly save a substantial amount of money.

You will also save an enormous amount of space. I have well over four thousand books. Yet, they fit on a single 1TB hard disk on which I have space for thousands and thousands more.

If you use the text versions, not the scanned versions, you will be able to carry thousands of books in your reader. Just imagine the possibilities!

[BartBVanBockstaele]

That is what we call circular reasoning. I do not recall having seen information by Sony saying that the reader isn't meant to read PDF documents.

The 700, by the way, while being more functional, is still far less functional than you may think. Its zooming capacities are limited, extremely slow, and very crash prone.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

The resolution is not all that bad, by the way, if the dots would be a bit bigger/further apart. That can be remedied with a magnifier. That is not ideal, but it does work.

[edisonphono1]

Also, I know I commented before about resolution, but aside from that, the Reader isn't really meant to read PDF documents like this. It's meant for simple text files and not to process large images, so what do you expect? Your info suggests that this is the case with all books, but it clearly isnt. LRF files and ePub work 100% fine, and I am sending that out because the 505 is meant for READING, while the 700 is meant for portable document viewing. Just be happy it can read PDFs. Kindle CAN'T

[BartBVanBockstaele]

This is circular reasoning. Sony does NOT say that it is not meant for reading PDFs. I just turns out not to be good for reading scan-based PDFs and to be extremely slow for reading scan-based PDFs that have been OCR'ed. Since Sony does NOT mention that in its specifications, the warning is a valid one.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

My info does NOT suggest that the device is this slow for all books, but to know that, you must read the info. I provided the link to do precisely that.

[simplystimpy]

ok, since i decided to open the 505, apparently i cant return it now.........which wouldn't be so bad if:

i opened a pdf and tried to zoom in cause the font size sucked, but it froze completely and has been that way since last night. no buttons work, i cant hook it up to my computer. I tried the reset button on the back (but the instructions dont tell you what this is supposed to do), it did nothing. in fact everything does nothing.

i used it once

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Unfortunately, you are out of luck. The PRS-505 will not "zoom in" scanned pdf's. It will magnify the characters only if it is a text or OCR'ed pdf.

As for the reset button, try to switch the device off and on after resetting, that will *probably* activate it again. After a reset: the last image from before the reset remains, so you won't see it has been reset until you switch off and on...

[simplystimpy]

can the 700 display pictures on pdfs? also math equations, because i will only be reading math pdfs and the 505 (i opened it) had a lot of trouble with the figures and math notation.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Yes it can, but only if you don't magnify them. However, you can also "zoom in" and that works fine.

"Magnifying" is only possible with text or OCR'ed pdf's. If the pdf is scanned and not OCR'ed, you can only zoom in (which is *not* possible with the PRS-505.

[simplystimpy]

thanks, that helps a lot

[BartBVanBockstaele]

You are welcome. One thing that could be interesting too, is that I am having problems with SD cards.

According to Wikipedia, both devices can handle up to 32 GB. According to Sony it is 16 GB. I have tried both. Neither is satisfactory. When I connect the devices to my computer with the card inserted, I can copy books with no problems whatsoever.

However, when I try to read them on the devices, it says that many of these books are "protected". Such is not the case.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

When I put those very same books on a 2GB card, they read just fine.

[simplystimpy]

thats weird. is that with both devices?

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Yes it was. Maybe the brand has something to do with it. It shouldn't, but who knows? I used HP cards.

I also tried reformatting. That seemed to work, but turned out to be an illusion. When I added files later on, they became "protected" too.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

It can display math equations, chemical formulae etc. but only if you "zoom in". Magnifying may work, but usually will be hilariously awful.

[simplystimpy]

i just bought a 505 but i haven't opened it yet and im considering returning it for the 700. I am only going to be reading PDFs. Got any advice on which is better for PDFs?

[BartBVanBockstaele]

The 700 is somewhat faster. It also has a "zoom" function. That is useful, because it allows you to read larger pages that have been scanned. However, it is slow, and not very practical. It is like moving a little window over a page.

The 700 has a built-in light. Unpleasant to use, but definitely an asset when you read in places where light is not always ideal, such as the subway, or outside, when it is dark

[BartBVanBockstaele]

The 700 also has a touch screen. It is mainly useful for making notes, really good idea. I first frowned upon it, but I use it quite a bit.

Unfortunately, the touchscreen makes the text quite a bit less pleasant to read. It is a bit like reading a book through a dirty window.

If you mainly read PDFs, I think that you are better off with the 700, in spite of the disadvantages. If your PDFs are scanned, it is essentially your only real option.

[edisonphono1]

OK, what resolution did you scan at for these PDF's?!? If you scan at like even 300 DPI, what's the point? The Reader's display is only 800x600 and 166 DPI, so at the most you should end up with a 2000x2000 file for horizontal or zoom. Of COURSE it's going to be slow! PDF's on the 505 are MUCH faster than that, I know because I own (and LOVE) one. I can get PDF books from my library for free using Adobe Digital Editions, and man is it faster than that (it won't be fast if it's one BIG picture!)

[BartBVanBockstaele]

This book is a Japanese-English dictionary. It is at a vertical resolution of 1200 pixels, twice the height of the reader, because that's how the reader splits its pages when you read in landscape, i.e. it is not in an excessive resolution. That would be foolish, since the reader wouldn't show it.

I have reasonable evidence to indicate that the reason for the slowness is to be found in the OCR. PDF files that have not been OCR'ed by Acrobat, perform generally faster than files that were.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Are you aware of the deal between Google and Sony?

[coconut2674]

I have to say this is a bit biased - i mean you didn't mention that you were opening the book for the first time, that lag is the reader formatting the book for you before you read - was it a pdf?!

Also, do you always read with it set to horizontal? I can't stand it! The only things the reader really misses is a bluetooth/wi fi ability - maybe colour, but no one can do that!

[BartBVanBockstaele]

How I wish you were right! Unfortunately, it was not the first time. I know the phenomenon you describe, but this book is really genuinely truly actually that slow.

I am also reasonably sure that I know what causes it. If you take a scanned document, make it a PDF with Acrobat Pro, then OCR it, it becomes this slow.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

I agree with you, I don't like holding it horizontally either, but since this often makes the difference between being able to read something, and not being able to read it, the choice isn't a hard one to make, even if it is unpleasant.

In short: I am happy with it, I have the PRS-700 as well. I use the 700 more often, mainly because of its (very unpleasant) built-in lighting, its ability to highlight words, the ability to take notes and the ability to zoom in.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

For the rest, I far prefer the PRS-505, because it is eminently more pleasant to read, *and* the way it handles the reading history is also far better than the way the PRS-700 does it.

[pyrogamer]

No fuck, PDF's are big fucking resource hogging documents. If you didn't know this before, you deserve to get fucked over.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

Actually, it has not much to do with this file being a PDF.

[thibaulthalpern]

What you're showing is that ereaders in general are not very good for skimming. Successful readers often begin with skimming a book and then honing in on relevant sections to read more carefully. This is a bit of a disappointment!

[sergiodongala]

If it was a LRF or ePUB file it would be mutch faster.

Use calibre to convert!

[BartBVanBockstaele]

That is correct. LRF-files are ridiculously speedy in comparison to PDF. However, while this may be a solution for some users, it doesn't address the fundamental reality that the PRS-505 has major problems dealing with PDF, and while the PRS-700 is certainly speedier, it isn't by much.

[VortexEmerald]

It is so slow, because the PDF he is viewing is a scanned book, so it consists of multiple high-res images, that are causing lags even in some PC-s. Normal books, containing real text, should be much faster rendered.

[BartBVanBockstaele]

That is correct, at least to a certain extent. What is strange is that I have scanned books with more pages that actually flip faster.

My best current guess is that it has something to do with the OCR included in the PDF, but I still have to test that assumption.

[Kremlin47]

Woah,thats slow,but i dont plan on using it for reading anything in a hurry,so i think i will be ok

[BartBVanBockstaele]

You will most probably be ok. The behaviour I show here is not typical. Nevertheless, it is aggravating, because it reduces the usability of part of my library.

I'll say it another way. Is my life better with the reader than without? Yes, very much so.