McConnell "Blames Canada" In Slam Of Government-Run Healthcare

[tindallpe]

denies coverage. If we have problems with some wait times it's because no one is denied coverage.Canadian healthcare costs are HALF what they are in the US and everyone is covered. An American experience in Canada is demonstrated by this youtube video. McConnell has no clue what he is talking about

[tindallpe]

@tindallpe Can't Go Home: Americans In Canada Share Health Care Stories. Please Cut and Paste in the youtube bar

[Claronium780]

McConnell is a clueless conservative corporatist in the pocket of corporate America - and look at him, and Dennis Miller called HARRY REID a "zombie"? !

[tindallpe]

@Claronium780

[powerpunch180]

Nothing but deceitful propaganda. Our healthcare is the pride of our nation!

[NinezeroPlayer]

Don't lie about Canadian healthcare system.It's one of the best in the world.

[strawman03]

He doesn't have the money to afford American health care - that's the problem with American heath care that Ted Kennedy was trying to address.

[MsZeitgeist85]

Thumbs up if you think Bitch McConnel made up that claim about the Canadian.

[duncanfrater]

I know so many 90yr olds that live to get operations here in Canada. This just isn't true at all. If anything, we go too far.

[tuckahoeneck]

He's a liar. Name the person who went to Florida McConnell. Who is he, huh? You prostitute, lying scumbag.

[moose19861]

so let me get this straight. the guy had no money and couldn't get care in the us. so what is the diffrence if he was in the us or canada he still had no money for the proceedure. Also if you are a 87 year old man with heart failure then no we(canada) will not give you a heart transplant. you wouldn't get one in the US either.

[stama9]

McConnel is a pants on fire lying freaking liar. NO ONE is too old for a certain kind of procedure in Canada. Anyone from Canada knows that but it's everyday people in the U.S. who have to pay the price for bald-faced lies.

I hope you have a satisfactory cigarette after the insurance execs whore you out and make you grab your ankles, McConnel!

[Pick1980a]

The Minister of Health should sue him for defamation.

That would be hilarious!

[shawakwak]

This guy is full of crap.

[backbeats100]

this politician is so bought and paid for, he's so against government run this and that, isn't medicare and medicade run by the government, i'm not sure totally, but i'm sure this guy's fucked, how he can actually look in the camera is beyond belief

[Defyou15]

unless you live in canada i guess you won't understand

[playbak]

Very true, most American's can't fathom what they are missing out on. Universal healthcare far surpasses a profit run system.

[wild112233]

I hate it when senators spread misinformation. The govt will not employ doctors across the country - the govt will provide financing, and the private sector will provide health-care. This is how it is in all major developed countries.

All other OECD countries have better healthcare stats, at a lower cost. We are the only morons in the developed world to have such poor healthcare stats, and such high costs.

And we want to stick to it. Are we stupid?

[faelismaegnus]

False. You are the purveyor of misinformation. I live in one of your so-called "better major developed countries" and they have major problems. Your portrayal of all the OECD countries is also misleading, because they don't all have the same "stats" or the same kind of health care systems. Reform, yes. Obamacare, NO.

[wild112233]

Which country are you in? Where does it rank for the WHO's primary quality-of-healthcare identifying markers, such as life expectancy at birth, and infant mortality?

Italy, Spain and Austria are in the top 5. Even the socialized NHS of the UK gets their country into the 18th spot, with annual spending of 8% of GDP. The US spends 16%, and is ranked 37th.

I've given my facts, & my sources. Your turn. Unless you are a republican red-neck who would prefer to shout like Bill-O, and ignore facts.

[faelismaegnus]

Your "redneck" comment proves you're an ignorant person. Your blind use of statistics also shows that you're mentally handicapped. WHO stats are very politicized. The UN is a politicized organization. Most member states of the UN are corrupt. Your "facts" aren't reality and your "sources" are junk. I live in Germany, so I KNOW exactly what I'm talking about.

[wild112233]

I gave data. You gave hyperbole. The whole of UN is scheming against the US, yeah, okay.

If you don't trust WHO and UN's data, then I challenge you to bring in your own data. Any data you want, that is of a global body or of a reputed educational institution, that says that the health of US citizens is better than that of citizens of other developed countries, when it comes to preventable illnesses.

I don't want anecdotal examples, but hard data backed by numbers. Not emotional examples.

[SatNamTree]

Don't expect faelismaegnus to offer anything but his own rambling rendition of anti-socialist smack. You'll tire of it and him quite soon.

[faelismaegnus]

Aha! You've admitted that you are a smack-talking socialist hack. Very honest of you, dingleberry.

[SatNamTree]

Can't talk now, I have a dentist appointment.

Cost = $0

[faelismaegnus]

LMAO! Cost of your dental appointment = you and the other Canadian taxpayers

[faelismaegnus]

I suppose you think the member states of the U.N. would never stoop so low as to politicize things based upon their (and your) own anti-American bias. That's where you're wrong. Your pretending that your model, the universal government socialized healthcare model is the best in the world statistically-speaking.

[faelismaegnus]

This idea is ludicrous because in any ranking of healthcare statistics (granting a sound methodology) you are comparing widely differing systems and concluding that the socialized, government-control factor is what is responsible for the better results in these systems. You're mindset is both naive and facetious.

[faelismaegnus]

There R so many unappreciated factors such as culture,genetics,diet,lifestyl­e,hygiene,not 2 mention seriously flawed record-keeping that your straightforward WHO/U.N. statistics rationale is just plain stupid.U similarly resist thinking there can be any other way to solve the healthcare delivery problems in the US other than your centralist socialized subsidized model.This speaks 2 your socialist bias.Unless you're willing to confront this prejudice of yours, then anything I say'll be pointless.

[SatNamTree]

This particular post says a lot. Or, maybe it just has a lot of words, not sure. In either case; what do you believe will aid in improving health care delivery in the US.  Other than saying "don't socialize it", do you have anything?

[wild112233]

I give up - you were smarter here. This lad

faelismaegnus can give no data, and when cornered with facts, resorts to screaming abuses and wild rhetoric.

[wild112233]

Fael, I am still waiting for data. Read my earlier comment...

Any data you want, that is of a global body or of a reputed educational institution, that says that the health of US citizens is better than that of citizens of other developed countries, when it comes to preventable illnesses.

[faelismaegnus]

Tell me what preventable illnesses you are talking about AND how your socialized medecine system prevents them. You're the one wedded to the one trick pony of socialized medecine. Not I!

[wild112233]

I started by giving data of WHO and the UN. Now it is your turn. Give me any data, that people are healthier in the US system, as opposed to any other OECD system.

It's your turn to give data. Not mine.

[faelismaegnus]

I've already explained that your so-called data is meaningless. It doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. You couldn't even explain why the various OECD systems allegedly made people healthier than the people in the US even if it was true. You're argument is moot.

[faelismaegnus]

I am not interested in your "global bodies" or your "reputed educational institutions". Because these are just code words for sources that support or seem to support your foregone conclusion that socialized medecine is better than private sector medecine. You can wait forever and a day, because I already explained to you that what you are waiting for is immaterial.

[wild112233]

Ok, I should distrust what most major global economic and development organizations say, and trust you on your word.

Yeah, great idea. Still waiting for your data.

[faelismaegnus]

Snorerrrrrr. Zzzzzzz. You're not going to get your phony "data" from me. Data is neutral. You want to spin it. You've repeatedly ignored every point I've made about "data". Enjoy your dreamworld.

[wild112233]

Still waiting for your neutral data.

[faelismaegnus]

What is it in what I have explained to you about the nature of data and of data interpretation that you don't understand? What is it about government-run socialized medecine that you think is so great that you will use folk-science to support it? You're just like those people who believe the earth is flat and at the center of the universe. Go away, you socialist nut!

[wild112233]

You haven't given any data to support your side of the story, apart from your abusive language and rhetoric.

Give me medical evidence or statistical information, not rhetoric. How is the US healthcare system better than that of the rest of the developed world? You said that you believe that the UN is too politicized to give neutral data about the US.

Well, what about other organizations? Unless you mean to say that all researchers across the world have come together to demean the US system.

[faelismaegnus]

Don't go on about my "rhetoric". And don't put words in my mouth. I think American health care needs reform to enable the uninsured to be insured. Socialized medecine is TOO EXPENSIVE to sustain, even if it was better, which it isn't. You're too dumb to understand what I'm telling you about what you want to pull from the "data". So keep on heehawing. I'm enjoying your thick-headeness.

[wild112233]

Again, more name calling. Less information.

You said: "Socialized medecine is TOO EXPENSIVE to sustain, even if it was better, which it isn't."

How do you know this? Do you have proof? Anything apart from your own words?

[faelismaegnus]

I made it clear to you that I know that you are a diehard socialized medecine supporter. I already found some data that shows American healthcare is on a par with other industrialized nations. You didn't go to the websites I suggested. OECD was one. You want me to PROVE something to you. But I think you need to PROVE to me why you think socialized healthcare subsidized by taxpayers and run by government is BETTER. Your words are not important to me. FACTS are.

[wild112233]

1. You did not give any website.

2. You in fact, disparaged OECD data. But if you are willing to accept it, here are some direct quotes from the 'OECD Health Data 2009', released in July '09.

"Total health spending accounted for 16.0% of GDP in the United States in 2007, by far the highest share in the OECD. The OECD average was 8.9% in 2007."

"Despite the high level of health expenditure in the United States, there are fewer physicians per capita than in most other OECD countries."

[wild112233]

...life expectancy in the US stood at 78.1 years, almost one year below the OECD average of 79.0 years.

US infant mortality rates..stood at 6.7 deaths per 1 000 live births in 2006, above the OECD

average of 4.9.

Source: oecd(dot)org/US

You can choose to scream and shout like a Fox News Bill O, or you can give data to back up your assertions, like a regular educated human being.

This discussion is over, unless you give me numbers and sources. I just did. Can you?

[faelismaegnus]

You didn't prove that American health statistics were worse than other countries with similarly expensive healthcare systems. The discussion is over when I say so, socialist dimwit. You're education is overblown. You're a product of the leftist mindwash. OECD AVERAGE vs USA? LMAO You really are a piece of work! Go get a socialized lobotomy. I don't have to give you one ounce of "data", you unscientific lunatic. You crack me up! What a waste of time!

[wild112233]

By the way, according to the latest CIA (available online at cia(.)gov), the US ranks worse than Cuba and Puerto Rico, on the two general healthcare areas the factbook surveys:

Infant mortality: Cuba ranks better than the United States. So do France, Taiwan and Singapore, among many others.

Life expectancy: Puerto Rico, South Korea and Jordan rank better than the US.

So much for all global institutions being biased against the US. The US system is in a mess. Nothing you say changes that.

[faelismaegnus]

And thousands OF Cubans risk drowing in the sea to come to the horrible USA! Cuba the great land of the free! You're a JOKE!

LOL @ you!

And I never said that the US system doesn't need reform. What a joker you are!

[wild112233]

You said WHO data could not be trusted. I gave you CIA data - Do you still think the healthcare system in the US is the best? That is what you said earlier.

[faelismaegnus]

I trust CIA data more than I do WHO. But that's not the point. And, no, I never said that US healthcare is the best! I said that I don't think a universal gov't-run healthcare system is the solution to Americas roughly 27 million uninsured, priced-out citizens. I am against Obamacare, not healthcare reform.

[wild112233]

Interesting - you trust govt data (from CIA) more than non-government data (from WHO). But when it comes to insurance, you don't from want the govt. Even though that is the system that works in all developed countries, except the US.

And as the CIA data shows, all other developed countries have better healthcare (at lower costs), than the US. Lower cost being expenditure as a %age of GDP.

[faelismaegnus]

The WHO is an international organization. What guiding philosophy do you think they follow?The CIA is responsible for US security and US interests.Solutions: Get government out of the welfare business. Government created the failed (bankrupt and ever-increasing cost) medicare and social security systems.

[wild112233]

Seems you are a Republican who is against whatever Obama may propose. Especially since you haven't proposed any solutions - give a solution that has been known to work in a large developed nation anywhere in the world, and then one can believe that you make sense.

[faelismaegnus]

Seems like you are a marxist who will go with anything Obama will propose. Since you haven't proposed any solutions that haven't been proven to be failures around the world (socialism), why should I listen to a word you say?

[wild112233]

The only solution I have been advocating in all my posts above, is to follow what works in all other developed countries. What works for the US for police, libraries, the fire department and in many other areas.

[faelismaegnus]

It doesn't WORK well in other countries. It's too much of a financial burden. There are indeed doctor shortages in Canada (for example), and long wait lines. The healthcare is NOT universally distributed throughout the nation, rural areas suffering. Thousands in Canada cannot find a family doctor!!!! The police and libraries are run from the local level as are fire departments which are overwhelmingly volunteer staffed. Wake up!!!!!

[wild112233]

1. You say: Canada has doctor shortages, long wait lines, and thousands in Canada cannot find a family doctor (can you give the data source?)

Yet, Canadians live longer (CIA World Factbook 2009) and have fewer infants dying (infant mortality rate; CIA World Factbook 2009).

Jeez, even if what you say is true, they have better health outcomes. What does that say?

2. Police & libraries are local level? So, they are still govt run. Would you be fine with universal state-level health care?

[faelismaegnus]

My source is Canadian media. And you should do your own research instead of speaking here ill-informed. Canada's universal system is one of the worst in comparison to the other systems. France and Germany have BETTER universal healthcare systems, but SHORTER life expectancies than Canada's. I am showing you that your linking of life expectancy and universal healthcare is erroneous. Hong Kong spends almost as much as the USA, and their life expectancy is tops in the world.

[wild112233]

You say: Hong Kong spends almost as much as the USA, and their life expectancy is tops in the world.

Your source?

Hong Kong spends almost as much as the USA, and their life expectancy is tops in the world.

Your source?

Don't say you saw this on TV. That barely counts as a credible source.

[faelismaegnus]

Hong Kong government website.

CIA List of Nations by Life Expectancy - 2009.

You think CBC is anti-Canadian?

Wake up, you socialist mind-slave.

[wild1112233]

Hahaha, again, no websites or links.

By the way, Hong Kong, is a territory of China, the world largest socialist country. And with their socialist system, what do they get?

According to the CIA Factbook cia(dot)gov/library/publicatio­ns/the-world-factbook/rankorde­r/2102rank.html, HKers enjoy a life expectancy of 84 for females and 78 for men, which are the second highest in the world. USA ranks 50th.

USA spends the most on healthcare - 16% of GDP. By 2015, this will be 20% of GDP.

[wild1112233]

As far as spending goes, here's more data to show the US spends the most of any country in the world

ucatlas.ucsc(dot)edu/spend.php

"Despite the wide gaps, higher spending on health care does not necessarily prolong lives. In 2000, theUnited States spent more on health care than any other country in the world: an average of $ 4,500 per person. Switzerland was second highest, at $3,300 or 71% of the US. Nevertheless, average US life expectancy ranks 27th in the world, at 77 years."

[faelismaegnus]

Well this proves another thing you seem to be unaware of -- you can find data and statistics from different sources which contradict one another. So why use them in your arguments as if they have inherent meanings. Methodology is everything when it comes to any data.

[faelismaegnus]

I don't need to footnote YouTube posts. You can find the data if you want to. And you sure are stuck on stupid about mainland communist China which has the WORST healthcare system of all universal types. Do your research, leftist.

[wild112233]

Of course you don't need to give sources for any ""facts"" you spread around. Sarah Palin cannot give her sources for her ""death panel"" comments.

Dude, if you know you are correct, give facts and sources. If you are not correct, refuse to give sources, and just say that you are right, and refuse to discuss the issue.

This is what all politicians are doing, and I was hoping that you at least would be open to reasonable debate - with facts, not with unproven assertions. Disappointing.

[faelismaegnus]

You have no facts to support universal gov't-run (taxpayer funded) healthcare as the solution for the problem of the 27 million uninsured Americans. Government RUINS everything - the banking system, the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the IRS, and just about anything the government runs is bankrupt or inefficient or BOTH. YOU HAVE NO POINT!

[faelismaegnus]

Create a better regulatory framework for insurance companies. Rescind the stupid law against buying insurance across state lines. Break up the giant insurance monopolies. Stop government from paying jacked up prices for medical services (medicare and medicaid) and ban companies from buying insurance. Let individuals pay for their own insurance policies that are portable, and allow the government to pay some or all of the premiums of people who really can't afford their insurance premiums.

[SatNamTree]

I think McConnel enjoys this type of disscourse, because it helps distract Americans from the fact the GOP have no plans for health care reform.

McConnel should consider closely the fact there's no grassroots effort in Canada seeking to reform our system. Also, Shona Holmes' extreme situation pales in comparison with 10's of millions of Americans with NO health care access.

[faelismaegnus]

False. Typical of the misinformation perpetrated by the lack of proper coverage by the mainstream media. The GOP has presented THREE healthcare reform bills. The Dems want single-payer and they want it all their (stupid,wasteful, statist, centralist) way.

[SatNamTree]

Come on man. I challenge you to actually look at the substance of those GOP "reforms" and you'll see they cling lifelessly to the status quo. If you actually believe those GOP efforts would actually "reform" things and create a more efficient and accessible health care system, then there's probably nothing that can be said to change your slanted view. But, until YOU look at those bills, YOU will probably keep defending them. Not smart.

[faelismaegnus]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Out of 300 million Americans (How many are illegal aliens? Does Obama even care about that?) only about 27 million need insurance. These people should be helped. How we do it is the question. You're obviously a statist. Your view is "slanted" toward socialism, or are you so foolish as to think you're unbiased? FIX MEDICARE and SOCIAL SECURITY first, man. They're bankrupt. It's super STUPID to increase these programs if they can't be paid for! WAKE UP!

[faelismaegnus]

Fool! STATIST! Not "Satan"! Open your googly eyes! Debating with these Obamanite loons is nearly useless. The reason that (you) they're supporters of the Obamacare plan is that they are politically, philosophically, and religiously MISEDUCATED. That's why it's like casting pearly before swine to comment here. But I must do my duty to reason, sanity, and honor.

[faelismaegnus]

So I will soldier on despite the inane attacks and the pathetic attempts at rebuttal. SOCIALISM is a failure! And Obamacare is Big Government Socialism! Concentrating power in government.

And keep your sadly inadequate, pseudo-intellectual, non-scientific atheist gibes to yourself, please.

[SatNamTree]

Question on this specific post of yours. How would you propose to "fix medicare"?

[faelismaegnus]

Question: How would YOU fix medicare and medicaid?

I know what I would do. They're all government regulations to introduce real competition in the healthcare market and prevention of overcharging and other cost corruption.

[wild112233]

Speaking of GOP reforms, does anyone have any clue why Mitt Romney (a republican) initiated the MA health insurance system because of which 97% of MA residents are now insured. And now he opposes having the same system on a national scale, but stands by the same system at his state level?

Talk about hypocrisy.

[bigboss025]

Say socialism to this guy, and you'll scare the shit out of him. Talk about Cold War propaganda repercussion. Even the basic morality would tell you that dropping a patient in need of care out of the hospital door is unacceptable. Where is the ethical standard ?

[faelismaegnus]

Hey, yoohoo! I live in a socialist nation in Europe, and it has BIG TIME problems. WORSE than those in the U.S. Only about 27 million Americans can't afford health insurance. The 50 million number is polemical and political MISINFORMATION. By the way, FIX SOCIAL SECURITY and MEDICARE/MEDICAID before you EXPAND the PROGRAM. That's a NO BRAINER, that liberals and socialists seemed to have MISSED. Talk about PROPAGANDA. O! Socialism is a failed and unstainable system.

[bigboss025]

@ faelismaegnus

If you are trying to have a conversation, you don't have to CAP letter (scream) like what the anti-reformers are doing. Man, can't you guys calm the f__k down if you disagree.

I don't know much about Germany's system. I assume you have coverage and so is everyone in your country. I am really not sure if your countrymen are willing to exchange its coverage to what those "27M" you said. Are you willing to give your coverage to them ?

And your Germany's stat ? worse than US ?

[faelismaegnus]

Oh yes. Brain dead Obamanites need CAPs. And please rephrase your question regarding my coverage! The system in Germany is full of loopholes and the tax burden is ridiculously high.

[SatNamTree]

Wow, your defense of the current American system is truly perverse. If you feel better that the number is only 27 million (close to the entire Canadian population, for comparison) then go have a party and celebrate. I'm sure those 27 million won't be surprised if they're not invited to your party, just like they aren't allowed access to even the most basic of health care.

Look closely at both Medicaid and Medicare friend. They need to be replaced, not refit. They're close to useless.

[faelismaegnus]

I haven't defended everything about the American healthcare system. I know we need reform. Obamacare is worse than the problems we have now. I was one of the c. 27 million and I had access to healthcare. I paid my medical bills in installments. I paid less than I do now under the German system. And the German system isn't better than the American. That idea is just anti-American bias.

[faelismaegnus]

LOL! My friend, what Obama is offering us is WORSE than MEDICARE and MEDICAID. And the Canadian system which Canadians are taught to praise in school is at the BOTTOM of the list as compared to other universal coverage schemes. Just admit that you're a flak for socialism. You don't care about the problems and the costs of universal healthcare systems run by governments. You think they're BETTER than private insurance, and that the market can't work. That's NOT smart. You're blind to reality.

[freedomofspeechFTW]

Unless the name of this "friend of a friend" in Canada who died is released and qualified physicians research his case, I will assume Mitch McConnell is a liar.

Insurance companies in the US ALSO refuse certain treatments based on age. Much harder to get transplants the older you are.

I wish the repubs would decide if the public option is bad because it will be horrible and people will have long waits, or bad because it will be so great, the insurance corps will go out of business. Boo hoo

[faelismaegnus]

Get real. The government of Canada can't afford to offer every citizen world class healthcare at tax payer cost. It gets rationed. People get put on waiting lists. And some do DIE. Look it up, will ya. Geesh. How blind can you be!!!!?

[SatNamTree]

The "problem" in Canada seems to be greater outside Canada than within. I repeat, there is no grassroots-level or any other sort of effort to have our system overhauled. Our healthcare system is rarely in the domestic news, for good reason. The vast majority Canadians are satisfied. We don't need others to explains our deficiencies, especially relative to the US system.

Also, our use of the term "rationed" seems you've swallowed some GOP pill. Do you even know what YOU mean by that?

[faelismaegnus]

You're either crazy or mendacious to assert that a universal healthcare plan which MUST contain costs doesn't ration care. Get real, please. Socialism is unsutainable, especially in Western Europe with the ballooning elderly population, the SHRINKING worker base, and the millions of immigrants on public welfare. WAKE UP!

[SatNamTree]

No mendacity here, really. I simply asked what evidence you have of rationing and you've provided none, literally. Instead, youve opted for the most generalized response imaginable. Do you have any actual evidence, or are you happy to proceed with none?

Also, you should know your liberal use of thesaurus will always have the opposite effect of that sought. You appear somewhat pedantic (and I don't mean erudite).

[faelismaegnus]

You choose to ignore the points Ihave made. My response suffices. You want to commnet on my vocabulary. I made some larger points than the mere fact that universal healthcare schemes are limited by the government's budget. If you deny this is so, you might as well deny that water is wet. Ad hominae directed towards me don't faze me or interest me one bit. Discuss the points I have made about socialism or find someone else to push your goofy propaganda onto. You're typical of the left! BLIND.

[SatNamTree]

With this "response", I'd say you've satisfied only yourself. Again, your odd mix of insult and vague language is a poor disguise for being unable to provide even a wafer-thin example of rationing. EVERY healthcare system contains costs; therefore, by your logic, should they all then necessarily ration care?

Just one concrete example my friend, that's all. "Rationing" is YOUR theme, not mine.

Maybe try dropping the Latin and haughty lingo for a moment and engage the debate.

[faelismaegnus]

Less about me and more about the insanity called centralized government anthroplastic statist socialism. (Crack out your dictionary and be amazed at the power of words!) Have you NEVER heard of the waiting lists, the lack of hospital beds (I could tell you a horror story that happened to one of my loved ones in Germany.), the missing doctors and hospitals in many towns and cities, the way that patients are arrogantly treated as children by doctors and nurses (where else can they go?),...

[faelismaegnus]

...and MOST TELLING OF ALL, how in universal government coverage nations (Germany & Ireland, just two good examples) rich holders of PRIVATE INSURANCE policies which PAY DOCTORS and HOSPITALS MORE per patient are give SPECIAL treatment and put ahead of those on the general welfare coverage. You are CLUELESS! Stop bothering me, insignificant Obama-flak gnat!

[SatNamTree]

Your deference for such tripe as "clueless", "crazy", "blind" etc. undermines your delivery, really.

However, overlooking these puerile tendancies, it seems you have a genuine interest in healthcare. Too bad though, that you look solely at the failings of Socialized Care in your argument supporting the American status quo.  In that regard, you remain unconvincing.

[faelismaegnus]

My are you a pretty little obfuscator! I don't use the word "tripe". Did I say "crazy"? You managed to avoid the big issues I brought out. You're indeed a socialist flak. All you seem able to do is attempt to insult me, but all your doing really is insulting my intelligence. Your jabbering about how bad the "American status quo" is and how we need Canadian-style Socialized Care is proof positive of your parochial agenda. Sorry, Canuck. We don't want what you got, bub. Keep your P.Rep.of C.!

[SatNamTree]

If you're not sure what you've said, maybe you don't know what you are saying? Yes, you've thrown around crazy.

And, flak aside, I offer this final and consistent comment.

I have never suggested the Canadian system is best assumed by the USA or others. I simply saw your strong inclination to bash Canada along with every other single-payer system and questioned why.

I say remove Canada unless you know something most Canadians don't? Trust the masses on this one, we Canucks are OK.

[faelismaegnus]

Hey! I NEVER said I hated Canada. Canadians does not equal Canadian Socialized Healthcare!!!! Thicken your skin! One thing that's true about Canadians is that they take every criticism of anything remotely Canadian personally. Get over it, man! Single-payer systems which MONOPOLIZE the entire healthcare delivery system are BAD for the patients, the doctors, and the development of medical technology. Why are you so doggedly in favor of the universal single-payer system? Explain that!

[SatNamTree]

My experience within the Canadian system, and the experience of EVERY person I know within that same universally accessible system, is justification enough for defending our particular version of a single-payer healthcare system. There is absolutely no substantive push within Canada to move to another form of health care admin or coverage, none.

Recall, our system is very different from any version of socialized medicine in Europe, so don't be surprise if your comparisons are ignored.

[faelismaegnus]

If you say so then it must be true. Let Canada be right and all the other universal healthcare nations be wrong! Right? All I'm hearing from you is Canadian socialist patriotism. That's not enough to sell anyone a hill of beans. I won't embarass you by showing you proof that you're wrong. Because I can see that you think Canadian healthcare is perfect and the best in the world. Go Canada!

[SatNamTree]

Thanks for offering not to "embarass" me by "showing proof" I'm wrong. But, keep in mind, I've been asking for such proof all along and you've simply offered broad statements.

I welcome the proof. Maybe you'll actually provide something substantive, if you reserve your 500 words for things other than slights and name-calling. Can you?

[faelismaegnus]

What kind of proof would you need to stop preaching your gospel of the perfect Canadian healthcare system? We've already figured out that you have nothing to add to this discussion, because you can't think of anything better than the Canadian universal socialized medecine model. I'm not here to convince you. You're beyond the point of reason.You wasted all of my time to defend your specific version of Canadian socialism as if it were superior to all other national socialisms.

[SatNamTree]

No need for a dictionary when discussing such a street-level topic. True, I don't know firsthand of German healthcare woes, although my new neighbour often talks about his father's struggles as a family practioner near Ulm. Also, both my neighbour and his wife now practise medicine in Canada. It's their informed opinion the German system is deeply flawed, as compared to Canada's system.

I repeat my point. The Canadian system is highly functional, with little internal pressure for change.

[faelismaegnus]

That's not what I find in the research. Canada is one of the worst universal healthcare systems when ranked against Germany and France and even most other universal gov't-controlled healthcare delivery systems.I know that the CBC and the Canadian public schools indoctrinate Canadians to believe in their "wonderful universal healthcare system".Unless you're seriously ill or elderly, you wouldn't have a problem in Canada. I know that gov't-run universal healthcare is overblown by socialist flaks.

[SatNamTree]

Seriously ill? My father was diagnosed with a serious heart defect following a seizure. He was flown to a regional hospital and received a more thorough diagnosis the next day. Major surgery (successful) on day three.

He is not the exception, truly. His meds are extremely expensive, which would bankrupt many of us. Not happening though.

Elderly? Eldercare is not the bragging point of ANY version of healthcare. Can it be better here, yes. Like elsewhere, under ANY system

[faelismaegnus]

Your lack of knowledge is appalling. Must I prove to you that Canada's universal healthcare system is one of the worst universal healthcare system's in the world? I know you're a Canadian patriot, but take my advice as an American: There will always be people who attack and despise your country. I like Canada and Canadians (I work with them), but you can keep your socialist mindset and your Canadian healthcare model.

[blacksteel25]

The little story he told about Canada is interesting, however Health Insurance Companies in USA also determine if a medical procedure as far as preexisting conditions will be covered or not covered even if it's a life or death situation. So no, I don't see him Canadian story any different than any one's other story.

[orangeleviathan]

Yes, but certain tests are readily available should someone require it at the emergency room such as a CT scan. It is not the same in Canada.

[blacksteel25]

@ orangeleviathan

If someone is an Emergency or is a life threatening case in Canada you are pushed ahead of the line. Again, this waiting time is determined by what your condition would be, which is almost the same as in USA. We often have to schedule time for the doctor to see us unless it's urgent. The only big problem with health care in Canada is that there is less Doctors.

[freedomofspeechFTW]

Readily available if you have insurance, money, or a willingness to be in debt for years.

[3star2nr]

Wow can he make it more obvious that all he and his party cares about is corporations.

Why the fuck are we worrying about insurance companies, they dont give a fuck about americans.

I cant believe thiese clowns have people who vote for them

[sidplicity]

McConnell should surrender his government run healthcare. If it's not good enough for us then it certainly should'nt be good enough for HIM!

[Richardgwm]

"I don't think that is the direction the American people want us to go, David."

Um. . yes, that IS the direction the American people want us to go.

70% of the American people want us to go that direction.

[orangeleviathan]

Let me ask, without animus: Do you have healthcare and why do the American people want this? Don't you truly believe it is because this issue has been glorified by the left? You see the proof in Canada and other countries. I have friends there and it is true my frined, it does not work, people wait and the worst part, people die. Wait until someone you love is pushed aside and told to wait four weeks for a CT scan. Please, I implore you, stop regurgitating part lines and do the research.

[3star2nr]

have you ever been to canada and used their health care system? Or gone to england?

[orangeleviathan]

Like I said I have three friends who live there. Your question is a bit slanted. It's tantamount to saying, have you ever been kicked in the balls, no?, than how do you know it would hurt? All of my friends in Canada have been to physicians. They all speak of the ills of the system. it does not work, they wait inordinate amounts of time for sub par care.  Stop, just stop.

[3star2nr]

You have 3 friends? I have 14 family members in Canada, family in the UK and in the USA. We have had experience with all 3 systems, the USA is by far the most expensive and the worst

The costs here in the USA are outrageous, they over prescribe drugs, etc.

in 06 my mom got ill, an ambulance came and picked her up. a 3 mile ride to the hospital cost us 600+ dollars almost 700.00 she didnt even spend the night.

Whn my Grand dad got ill we moved him to canada because it was too expensive here

[orangeleviathan]

Wow, then why did my heart specialist in Manhattan have appointments the same day from four countries with socialized medicine? I agree we are expensive, but the caliber of expertise is unmatched.

[Richardgwm]

Anecdotal evidence is meaningless. Consumer satisfaction surveys are more meaningful, and they show Canadians, French, English, etc are much more satisfied with their healthcare systems than Americans.

But even satisfaction surveys are not as meaningful as health outcomes. Americans have miserable health outcomes when compared to other countries. Infant mortality, life expectancy, disease rates, all these health measures and more tell us that the American system is a miserable failure.

[orangeleviathan]

I would not say miserable failure, I think it is spradic at best and that goes for all countries with every type of system.

By the way, three individuals may be considered anecdotal, but one is a physician.

[Richardgwm]

Life expectancy:

US 78.11 (rank 50)

United Kingdom 79.01 (rank 36)

Germany 79.26 (rank 32)

France 80.98 (rank 9)

Canada 81.23 (rank 8)

The data don't lie.

[orangeleviathan]

It may not lie but you are way out of context. Other issues such as obesity and practices that are well outside the governance of medicine are at play. For example, the stress AMericans place on themselves in terms of work are heads and tails above France, Canada and I dare say, the rest. You know this to be true and to deny the intangibles is intellectually dishonest.

[Richardgwm]

So the healthcare industry has no responsibility to keep Americans healthy????? WTF????

France England, Canada and Germany are comparable industrialized countries. They are the perfect comparison for the American healthcare industry.

Face facts. Our healthcare system is a disastrous failure.

[Richardgwm]

Infant mortality:

US 6.26 (rank 180)

Canada 5.04 (rank 189)

United Kingdom 4.85 (rank 193)

Germany 3.99 (rank 210)

France 3.33 (rank 217)

There really is no argument. The American healthcare system is a disastrous failure.

[3star2nr]

yeah but those arent "real" americans. Those are the "elites" they arent the "Joe six packs, and jane wine boxes.....

[burntonion05]

When the value of a human being's health is graded based on a monetary amount, it is a pretty good sign that the value of life is lost.

[3star2nr]

oh no dude this doesnt determine value of life only abortions do that....

[OhioDemocrat]

Scare tactics, when thats all republicans have thats all they use.