@ingravegreen Too right man, todays TV is all about making money nothing else, screw the audiences they rather make as much money as they can now days, at least with Thames it cared about their audience and brought them the best entertainment they possibly could and make a profit at the same time not one sided like todays ITV, i'm not even from the UK i'm irish and from all the vids i have seen on youtube i couldn't help but fall in love with what Thames was, and looking at this makes me sad!!
@ingravegreen hear hear! I too watched this live in 1992-93 and found it hard to believe that Thames was no more, (and with a good track record at that). Carlton, on the other hand, was a publisher broadcaster, which ruined not only ITV, but much of British television after that.
I blame the Conservatives (and in particular a certain Margaret Thatcher!)
I also felt the loss of Southern Television at the end of 1981, to be replaced then by TVS in 1982.
@brucedanton Ya i agree with ya man,i never even lived in the UK and let alone be old enough to have remembered it,i'm Irish by the way, looking at this makes one feel very emotional, Thames was around for so long and then it was so ruthlessly taken away from its viewers, it held hell of a lot more charm than Carlton ever did,Carlton from what i can see was trashy and cheap from the start and ruined the whole of ITV and now u have the mess that is ITV today but Thames will always be remebered!!
t's just an urban myth that Thames lost their franchise because of Death on the Rock. If you read Under The Hammer, the story of the 1991 ITV franchise round, you'll discover that the IBA had had its eye on Thames for most of the 1980s and it didn't like what it saw, mostly due to its terrible industrial relations.
@jayrox40 But the IBA ultimately shot themselves in the foot by giving the franchise to Carlton, as apart from Dave Allen's last series they produced nothing of note.
Like most posters here I was very upset that Thames lost their licence. Nearly 20 years on though, and with hindsight, would they have been the same broadcaster into the 90's, let alone the next century?, I suspect not. Because of the legislation ITV changed so the like's of Carlton got in. I wonder whether, at least for our memories,Thames left at a time when we can remember it for what is was then. At least we can still enjoy their shows even now on ITV.
Thames was not only the weekday (Monday morning until early Friday evening) ITV franchisee for Metropolitan London, but many of it's program(me)s were exported to broadcasters throughout the English-speaking world, including the U.S.
"Benny Hill" became a cult hit in the 'States when his shows were repackaged as half-hours.
My Dad worked as a VT engineer for Thames for about 20 years, the atmosphere in the house when he came home from finding out they'd lost the franchise was one I'll never forget...
Although I'll also never forget the impromtu tours of Euston road he managed to arrange whenever we were in town. :-) Even got given a signed Aha album for our trouble. :-D
If RTL were to buy ITV plc (now they have sold Channel 5) we could possibly see the name of Thames again as a broadcaster but it's very unlikely, it's only people of a certain age (like me!) that the brand means anything to now. I think in England & Wales were stuck with ITV1.
Even the Granada TV signs on the studios in Manchester were removed this week for 'health & safety reasons'.
@jalfrezee Yes, just a little over two years. But the legislation for the new franchise renewal was implimented whilst Margaret Thatcher was still PM, around 1989 / 1990.
@eszettfromhell Fuck Carlton indeed,aha, they ruined ITV with the help of Granada,there's absolutely no comparison in quality between today's ITV and the one of 20 years ago,but things are not likely to change now!!
@sattski Oh i totally agree with ya there, i'm not even British and this brings a tear to my eye and total dismay, what a perfect song they signed off with, i have seen so many clips of Thames on youtube and it just proves how great they were,I'm irish by the way and well i wish i was British and older to have seen Thames in action,great channel it was and wish still would have being, what a screw up i believe there was a government pull in them losing the licence but that can't be proven!!
I'm not even a Brit, and this even pissed me off a little! I remember the Thames ident from many imported shows during my childhood...which the entire time I pronounced it as it was spelled. STUPID AMERICAN!
Richard Dunn in front of the camera paying tribute to Thames was a fitting end to the company on air. How many television executives would actually go in front of the cameras to pay tribute to their company? Hardly any of them as most of them believe that their place is far behind the camera. Indeed, Thames was unique for having its very last programme to be networked, except on TVS (they had Goodbye to All That), Ulster (they had Kelly) and on Scottish and Grampian (Hogmanay celebrations).
The last words before the switchover to Carlton were, "Now just a few seconds away from midnight, lets go over to Westminister for the chimes of Big Ben", and the last thing we ever saw before the switchover was Big Ben ready to strike midnight. It felt like the chimes of Big Ben were chimes of disaster, because of the introduction of Carlton.
To be fair, though, this was as part of a national broadcast from ITN, not a Thames production - so the last words from Thames really were "A Talent for Television".
Carlton snuck in by being a publisher-broadcaster, making it near-impossible to fail them on the quality threshold - hard to judge in advance the quality of programmes that they'd buy from others.
The 1990 Act naively lacked any provision to retain worthy rival companies who bid against each other via regional reshuffle.
The Act wasn't the only reason for the demise of itv; dvd, satellite tv & the web have all provided new outlets for advertisers and viewers.
430 people have lost their jobs now that ITV have all but destroyed regional news and programming. We now have to live on our memories of ITVs glory days (pre Carlton).
Thames were brilliant. Carlton? Granada since 1992? Pile of shit shovelling pricks....I think the posters info comments sums up completely the sad state of both british broadcasting and the mess that has become ITV since Thames demise in 1992. No wonder they now may well need a share of the BBCs licence fee to fund its drivel in future.....bastards.
difference between thames and carlton is that thames cared about the viewers took pride in the fact they owned the london region and worried more about viewer opinion than profit. Carlton were only ever after a quick buck and merging with granada is proof that they are money grabbers bring thames back !!!
One simply spots the difference between the 'old' dignified british style of Thames TV to the very last minutes of '92, and the 'new' tacky american-style of Carlton as of '93. Such a shame.
I can't help but watch this and feel sad. But at the same time have nothing but respect for how the late Richard Dunn and Thames Television bowed out with class.
I agree, I remember watching this live back in 1992 (I was 9 at the time) & feeling a bit of dread, but back then, being 9, I never really knew why. 17 years on I know why, ITV is just a pile of crap these days & if they were ever to go under, I really wouldn't care.
Even LWT (of which they & Thames never really got on) paid tribute to their years on air when the name was sadly dropped in 2002.
Both Thames & LWT were great, shame neither are on air anymore :^(
I don't think it was just Thames TV going that turned TV rubbish... its more to do with trying to be "bigger is better" (or at least nowadays it is) and less to do with plenty of quality programming... although the occasional good programme does still get made from time to time... nice to see the reflections on 1992 in the news... just as amazing now to see some of those images!
ITV is now such an abomination because of Thatcher's "free market" bullshit about "more choice for viewers". I look at our new multi channel age and think "there was so much quality when we had only 3, then 4, channels.
And with Thames' demise went the demise of good quality television on ITV. Carlton were a total sickening disaster and led the way with Granada to what we have now, an abortion called ITV1. The sooner it goes bust the better.
I even miss carlton now itv has got that bad! lol but thames will b forever the best itv company and in my view the best company in the world! If that bastard broacasting act of 1990 would not have gone through we still might b waking up to tv-am and then onto thames or tvs or tsw or central or granada and so on...but instead we are stuck with bland, cheap, boring old itv1! R.I.P good tv!
The one and only REAL "Rainbow" was last shown in December 1992. It was a complete scandal that the pathetic and half-hearted imitation programmes that briefly followed (a couple of years or so later) were actually allowed to have "Rainbow" in their title at all. The press, at the time, misguidedly hailed the return of "Rainbow", and quoted Geoffrey Hayes as being "shocked and shattered" that he had not been invited to take part. The whole sorry episode summed up post-Thames ITV.
Did they not drop Geoffrey Hayes from Rainbow because they thought he was too old? I remember reading that in the papers at the time. If so, then I'm disgusted!
Geoffrey Hayes was never dropped from the REAL Rainbow (i.e. Thames TV shown until 1992). The new producers. later in the 1990s, who thought that they'd try to revive it, evidently rejected him, perhaps for that reason. But there again, they knew little about "Rainbow", and even less about producing quality television.
In 25 years time what will the TV archive show for this period of time pop idol Britain's got talent builders from hell all cheap programmes to produce that have a life span of 1 viewing if your desperate or crazy enough Thames television and LWT were the best from the 60s to the late 90s
All great shows were produced by Thames or LWT nowadays with the ITV network programmes are produces for the brain dead
why are there no great new TV programmes being made like the classic shows minder, Sweeney ,Shelly, Callan The Gentle Touch, , man about the house, George and Mildred the list goes on of great programmes
1983 and 1992 were the worst two years in British Independent TV History.
Im originally from Granadaland, but to this day I mourn the loss of Thames, LWT, Central, (and TVam when it became the most successful TV company in it's time).
I'm thankful to anyone who posts what is now archive material. The original VTs are often found in cardboard boxes in a cupboard.
...and Although Granada was an excellent Regional Franchise holder in it's day, they bought Carlton so now own everything.
and often the VTs are on Betamax of course - as Very Horrible System was the winner (Betamax never got the large majority it deserved) so people just kept on re-using the tapes that had archive TV moments on them.
Thank god for youtube. (And Sanyo for making their Betamax recorders far more reliable than Sony's or Toshiba's)
If Thames had won the franchise in 1991 would it have made any difference to the way ITV is run today or would it still be money and ratings before quality produced programmes, and Would Thames have merged with Granada?
Although I have always live in the north west of England (Granada) Thames TV losing the franchise was one of the worst things that has happened to itv and I personally feel sorry for viewers in London who have been subject to that mindless inane drivel that is Carlton (muppet) TV I bet you lot prayed for the weekends when LWT used to take over
Granada (after it got rid of most of it's respected programme makers soon after winning it's franchise) and Carlton really have destroyed ITV, todays it's full of mindless shows which, if they don't mention the words 'celebrity' or 'reality' are not deemed worthy of broadcast. They have destroyed regionality, the one thing that could have made ITV stand out in todays multi channel environment. Come back Thames - I miss you.
@section451 I think it's the government's fault, it forced Granada and other ITV Franchisees to pay most of their earning to British Government and they haven't money to make better programmes.
Yes, the end of Thames definitely signalled the beginning of the end for ITV. Thatcher's vengeance for "Death On The Rock" in full effect.
Is my memory serving me a dud, or did Carlton outbid Thames by only £1m? A bit convenient - surely Carlton were tipped off by the government, such was their desire to kill off Thames?
Hard to believe now that there was a time when ITV was actually good. It was the very individual identities of the 15 regions which made ITV strong in the first place.
The "hiccup" on the video was almost unavoidable; you simply can't switch analog video sources seamlessly on a massive scale like that. The blip would've happened at the transmitting stations as the engineers made the switch - Carlton would have most likely been providing a signal for some minutes before the actual switch took place.
@CNash85 A television set with a Phase Locked Loop tuner showing the live transmission would not show the glitch, by virtue of the PLL correcting the phase of the stammered control signal, causing the glitch above. Potentiometer-tuner TV sets and VCRs, PLL tuner or potentiometer tuner, would pick up (and record) the glitch.
@CNash85 You can if they are genlocked, but there's no bloody way they'd sync up competing franchises like that. They didn't bloody do it between GMTV and the regions, let alone Thames to Carlton. Thames and LWT always had the blip when they handed over at the weekends.
I'm afraid that's not true. It was the legislation and subsequent legislation that allowed ITV to become one big company. If it wasn't Carlton it would have been someone else.
I remember as an 9 year old boy the end of Thames, I remember my old man going on about how it was all going to go downhill when it was first announced in 1991 Thames lost, he wasn't wrong.
When Thames went a huge chunk of ITV went as well, once Carlton got hold of Central that really was the end, one major producer of ITV going was bad enough but once Central went as well ITV really did become a pile of shit.
LWT was the only one who cared in the end & sadly even they have gone.
Well, in my opinion, tv DID die when Thames went off air. Not because of Thames itself, but because of the effects of the 1990 Broadcasting Act taking effect (of which Thames' franchise loss was one). It was a piss-poor piece of legislation that's dragged down the quality of British television so much over the last 15 years.
Also, something I didn't fit in before- just who thought it was a good idea to have the bidding for franchises? It meant whoever had the deepest pockets ended up winning, not who was offering the best service. It let companies like Carlton into the network, and lead to serious cutbacks at the companies that did win so that they could actually be able to pay what they bid. Very, very bad piece of leglislation that but British TV on the slippery slope to the pile of crap it's become today.
It was much worse than that, the highest bidder did NOT automatically win the franchise. If a company was judged to have bid too much then they could still lose. Companies had absolutely no idea how much they were supposed to do in order to actually win a franchise.
Because the process of choosing a winner was so mysterious it was wide open to manipulation for political reasons, which seems to have happened with Thames. Thames was clearly the best programme maker on ITV, so why did they lose?
Yes, it was stupid. There were also ones that lost on the "quality threshold", such as CPV-TV (Richard Branson's group) who actually bid more than Carlton, London Independent who outbid LWT and North West TV who outbid Granada. Of course, quality still didn't win out, the best companies didn't win and even if they had, quality would still have suffered through having to pay stupid sums to the government rather than putting it into programming and service.
Or poor old TVS, which bid a massive amount but was deemed to have overbid by the ITC, who thought that they wouldn't be able to sustain themselves while paying the £59 million per year that they had bid.
Thames gave us such great programmes like The Sweeney, Morecambe & Wise, Rumpole Of The Bailey, Minder and The Bill and so on. Carlton on the other gave us...The Good Sex Guide. Thatcher or whoever it was that made the decision to rob Thames of their franchise should be made to hang their heads (or just be hanged full stop) in shame to this very day if they're not doing so already (although I very much doubt it).
As a yankee, I enjoyed watching Thames based programms while growing up. I didn't and never knew they lost frachise. What really killed Thames? Can anyone let me know Britian.
She didn't like the "Death on the Rock" documentary made by Thames, and decided she would secretly try to get rid of Thames. It wrecked ITV, if one company would have stayed truly independent, it would have been Thames. The rest are controlled by Granada and Carlton. Oh well.
Thames may have lost their broadcasting franchise but they still made programmes for broadcasters after they died. Indeed, they are still around today - as part of Fremantle Media and are known on-screen as "Talkback-Thames" after they merged with Talkback productions.
i agree with all the sentiments of the below and the provider of this clip. the "carltonisation" of tv, morphed into the carlton-granadaisation almost has ruined itv. news at ten coming back is great news, the best thing 3 has done since i can remember. where i live (southern, meridian) the old studio at northam has been closed down, the sun-faded silhouette on the wall where the meridian sun has been torn down serves a timely reminder of tv's and tvs's golden age.
Beyond Thames, even, I had to cover my ears when Major started up (the only reason I didn't cry that day is that I was too young to really understand: my mum cried). Something horribly mendacious about ending that montage with the Union flag, this whole charade of false power ... setting the tone for what ITN was to become.
Right at the end of this clip, during the "animated" opening to Carlton New Year - listen carefully at the "Smack!" bit: a snide swipe from Carlton at a familiar trumpet fanfare, or just my imagination?
This happened 20 years ago today. Long live Thames.
pistak09 2 months ago
@pistak09 it's 19 years ago...still sad seeing this
kainer2 2 months ago
Thames was ITV, ITV was Thames, simple. Gave up when LWT went by the wayside too. What a shame
PPNeeded 3 months ago
haha a very young looking sky news Dermot Murnaghan newsreader there :-)
andyr123452 3 months ago
The end of proper telly as we knew it.
lukesams2 6 months ago
@ingravegreen Too right man, todays TV is all about making money nothing else, screw the audiences they rather make as much money as they can now days, at least with Thames it cared about their audience and brought them the best entertainment they possibly could and make a profit at the same time not one sided like todays ITV, i'm not even from the UK i'm irish and from all the vids i have seen on youtube i couldn't help but fall in love with what Thames was, and looking at this makes me sad!!
DFWM091 7 months ago
@ingravegreen hear hear! I too watched this live in 1992-93 and found it hard to believe that Thames was no more, (and with a good track record at that). Carlton, on the other hand, was a publisher broadcaster, which ruined not only ITV, but much of British television after that.
I blame the Conservatives (and in particular a certain Margaret Thatcher!)
I also felt the loss of Southern Television at the end of 1981, to be replaced then by TVS in 1982.
But that was done by the IBA at the time.
brucedanton 8 months ago
@brucedanton Ya i agree with ya man,i never even lived in the UK and let alone be old enough to have remembered it,i'm Irish by the way, looking at this makes one feel very emotional, Thames was around for so long and then it was so ruthlessly taken away from its viewers, it held hell of a lot more charm than Carlton ever did,Carlton from what i can see was trashy and cheap from the start and ruined the whole of ITV and now u have the mess that is ITV today but Thames will always be remebered!!
DFWM091 7 months ago
@brucedanton i
t's just an urban myth that Thames lost their franchise because of Death on the Rock. If you read Under The Hammer, the story of the 1991 ITV franchise round, you'll discover that the IBA had had its eye on Thames for most of the 1980s and it didn't like what it saw, mostly due to its terrible industrial relations.
jayrox40 6 months ago
@jayrox40 But the IBA ultimately shot themselves in the foot by giving the franchise to Carlton, as apart from Dave Allen's last series they produced nothing of note.
davidgbarron 4 months ago
Like most posters here I was very upset that Thames lost their licence. Nearly 20 years on though, and with hindsight, would they have been the same broadcaster into the 90's, let alone the next century?, I suspect not. Because of the legislation ITV changed so the like's of Carlton got in. I wonder whether, at least for our memories,Thames left at a time when we can remember it for what is was then. At least we can still enjoy their shows even now on ITV.
mersey70 8 months ago
@JasonSmallMovies Too rite!!! ITV hasn't been the same since!!
fulhamfcfan 9 months ago
@1:17 Best show and cast ever!!
POLICEINTERCEPTORS1 10 months ago
Richard Dunn R.I.P
retrocomputerkidkris 10 months ago
Funny how Carlton managed to screw it up from the very first second with the bodged handover from Thames. A portent of things to come.
burneside1 1 year ago
Funny how Carlton managed to screw it up from the very first second with the bodged handover from Thames. A portent of things to come...
burneside1 1 year ago
Do You Think Carlton Is Good Television?
gibsosgerbil 1 year ago
No. Carlton Television was the worst ITV station in the history of the world.
Tripp1993 1 year ago
Thames was not only the weekday (Monday morning until early Friday evening) ITV franchisee for Metropolitan London, but many of it's program(me)s were exported to broadcasters throughout the English-speaking world, including the U.S.
"Benny Hill" became a cult hit in the 'States when his shows were repackaged as half-hours.
altfactor 1 year ago
The end of Thames was the day ITV died.
NeilRob45 1 year ago 7
Thank god we still had LWT
rachel7000rf 1 year ago 2
There it is - the very moment ITV went from great to shite
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago 5
My Dad worked as a VT engineer for Thames for about 20 years, the atmosphere in the house when he came home from finding out they'd lost the franchise was one I'll never forget...
Although I'll also never forget the impromtu tours of Euston road he managed to arrange whenever we were in town. :-) Even got given a signed Aha album for our trouble. :-D
MrThrasher76 1 year ago
If RTL were to buy ITV plc (now they have sold Channel 5) we could possibly see the name of Thames again as a broadcaster but it's very unlikely, it's only people of a certain age (like me!) that the brand means anything to now. I think in England & Wales were stuck with ITV1.
Even the Granada TV signs on the studios in Manchester were removed this week for 'health & safety reasons'.
mersey70 1 year ago 2
Richard Dunn Says A Final Goodbye and Thanks Everybody Behind The Scenes Of Thames Television A Few Minutes Till 1993.
shirleygibson 1 year ago
Thames Television made some brilliant programmes. I don't even bother to watch ITV. It's just full of soaps and talentless shows.
LOCOMOTIONNUMBER1 1 year ago
I miss Thames TV
I love watching bits of old continuity and I have quite a few bits on tape.
Naitch1981 1 year ago
@jalfrezee Yes, just a little over two years. But the legislation for the new franchise renewal was implimented whilst Margaret Thatcher was still PM, around 1989 / 1990.
97channel 1 year ago
Well, I think there's no chance of Thames Television coming back now...:(
PeterannaProductions 1 year ago
Something else the Tories managed to ruin: ITV .. a child of their own creation as well..
barrieuk 1 year ago
Sad, But We March On
mrBMW2800 1 year ago
@mrBMW2800 Not if Uncle Rupe decides it's time for Ofcom to go.
callwithcurrentconti 1 year ago
@JasonSmallMovies - Haha! Perfectly said. Fuck Carlton.
eszettfromhell 1 year ago
@eszettfromhell Fuck Carlton indeed,aha, they ruined ITV with the help of Granada,there's absolutely no comparison in quality between today's ITV and the one of 20 years ago,but things are not likely to change now!!
DFWM091 7 months ago
i don't live in london but it was a sad day for the whole of the itv network when thames finished.
sattski 1 year ago 2
@sattski They made some great Television, Kenny Everett, Benny Hill, Magpie, Minder, The Sweeney, the list goes on and on....
Feisty1967 1 year ago
@sattski Oh i totally agree with ya there, i'm not even British and this brings a tear to my eye and total dismay, what a perfect song they signed off with, i have seen so many clips of Thames on youtube and it just proves how great they were,I'm irish by the way and well i wish i was British and older to have seen Thames in action,great channel it was and wish still would have being, what a screw up i believe there was a government pull in them losing the licence but that can't be proven!!
DFWM091 7 months ago
I'm not even a Brit, and this even pissed me off a little! I remember the Thames ident from many imported shows during my childhood...which the entire time I pronounced it as it was spelled. STUPID AMERICAN!
electrogeek77 1 year ago
2:45 I remember this.
NPA188 1 year ago
At The First Chime, Thames Handed Over To Carlton, TVS To Meridan, TSW To Westcountry, TV AM To GMTV And ORACLE To Teletext.
Also, The Carlton ID Cut Out A Few Seconds Of Coverage.
caseybellafc 1 year ago
The death of ITV as we knowen of it
kevthegerbil1958 2 years ago 3
As they say, You don't know what you got till it's gone - if only we knew then how bad ITV would get.....
identlover 2 years ago 2
Richard Dunn in front of the camera paying tribute to Thames was a fitting end to the company on air. How many television executives would actually go in front of the cameras to pay tribute to their company? Hardly any of them as most of them believe that their place is far behind the camera. Indeed, Thames was unique for having its very last programme to be networked, except on TVS (they had Goodbye to All That), Ulster (they had Kelly) and on Scottish and Grampian (Hogmanay celebrations).
GeorgeASFTHM 2 years ago 4
thames tv was better then carlton tv carlton was shit it spelled itv in a way and thames tv had good programes
shackles1000 2 years ago
Another act of vandalism by the evil crone Thatcher.
Jammers22 2 years ago 5
The day tv from ITV died!!!!! Carlton was shit!
fraserkatie 2 years ago 7
The begining of the end...
rolfmanuk 2 years ago 4
Should Thames' final days be told in a feature film?
Tripp1993 2 years ago 3
Yes - I'm suprised the whole franchise affair wasn't documented as a film.
tsangari 2 years ago 3
Good idea.
Tripp1993 2 years ago
What should it be like?
Tripp1993 8 months ago
The day ITV died!!!!!!!!!
JAYROX1969 2 years ago 2
At 3:55-3:56 , it is the crash of El Al Flight 1862 on October 4th 1992 at the Bijlmer suburbs in Holland.
ahmadiskandarshah 2 years ago
They couldn't even be bothered to play the big ben chimes in full! Disgraceful.
weirdnetwork 2 years ago
The last words before the switchover to Carlton were, "Now just a few seconds away from midnight, lets go over to Westminister for the chimes of Big Ben", and the last thing we ever saw before the switchover was Big Ben ready to strike midnight. It felt like the chimes of Big Ben were chimes of disaster, because of the introduction of Carlton.
thelogofreak2009 2 years ago
To be fair, though, this was as part of a national broadcast from ITN, not a Thames production - so the last words from Thames really were "A Talent for Television".
CNash85 2 years ago
A dignified end to the franchise.
Carlton snuck in by being a publisher-broadcaster, making it near-impossible to fail them on the quality threshold - hard to judge in advance the quality of programmes that they'd buy from others.
The 1990 Act naively lacked any provision to retain worthy rival companies who bid against each other via regional reshuffle.
The Act wasn't the only reason for the demise of itv; dvd, satellite tv & the web have all provided new outlets for advertisers and viewers.
spankmonkey73 2 years ago
1:18 - Viv Martella, The Bill and CID.
1:29 - Reginald Percival Hollis (Reggie Babes)
CHANNELMICHAEL 2 years ago
poor old Thames, Carlton ruined ITV.
zoozy15 2 years ago 7
The regal presentation of Thames got stamped on by that fake avant garde title sequence of A Carlton New Year.
Anyhow, for me post 1993 meant I had to grow up.
tsangari 2 years ago 5
430 people have lost their jobs now that ITV have all but destroyed regional news and programming. We now have to live on our memories of ITVs glory days (pre Carlton).
Long live Thames TV.
AudleyB 2 years ago
Thames were brilliant. Carlton? Granada since 1992? Pile of shit shovelling pricks....I think the posters info comments sums up completely the sad state of both british broadcasting and the mess that has become ITV since Thames demise in 1992. No wonder they now may well need a share of the BBCs licence fee to fund its drivel in future.....bastards.
TheMasterNo6 2 years ago 6
difference between thames and carlton is that thames cared about the viewers took pride in the fact they owned the london region and worried more about viewer opinion than profit. Carlton were only ever after a quick buck and merging with granada is proof that they are money grabbers bring thames back !!!
TheCrowe1983 2 years ago 5
One simply spots the difference between the 'old' dignified british style of Thames TV to the very last minutes of '92, and the 'new' tacky american-style of Carlton as of '93. Such a shame.
lachmania 2 years ago 2
You wouldn't have seen titles like that on Thames-produced stuff, either..
alcockell 3 years ago
"THIS IS CARLTON, CRAP TELEVISION FOR LONDON!"
*head hits desk* - I remember the unmitigated shit that was Head Over Heels
alcockell 3 years ago 4
I can't help but watch this and feel sad. But at the same time have nothing but respect for how the late Richard Dunn and Thames Television bowed out with class.
kainer2 3 years ago 4
I agree, I remember watching this live back in 1992 (I was 9 at the time) & feeling a bit of dread, but back then, being 9, I never really knew why. 17 years on I know why, ITV is just a pile of crap these days & if they were ever to go under, I really wouldn't care.
Even LWT (of which they & Thames never really got on) paid tribute to their years on air when the name was sadly dropped in 2002.
Both Thames & LWT were great, shame neither are on air anymore :^(
Johnny1989a 2 years ago 5
I feel sorry for the man who was mauled at london zoo. He has that, and Carlton broadcasting instead of Thames.
racrmimbpsvc 3 years ago
lmao.
AidanLunn 2 years ago
Apparently, all the ITV regions, except for TVS and TSW watched the Thames tribute programme.
racrmimbpsvc 3 years ago
TSW did broadcast the final Thames programme - I've just been watching some continuity from their final night.
AidanLunn 2 years ago
The CARLTON idents at the time had pretty much made everyone make crap personallity idents.
racrmimbpsvc 3 years ago
ITV and TV now = Bollocks!
JAYROX1969 3 years ago 9
I don't think it was just Thames TV going that turned TV rubbish... its more to do with trying to be "bigger is better" (or at least nowadays it is) and less to do with plenty of quality programming... although the occasional good programme does still get made from time to time... nice to see the reflections on 1992 in the news... just as amazing now to see some of those images!
djmysterious83 3 years ago
ITV is now such an abomination because of Thatcher's "free market" bullshit about "more choice for viewers". I look at our new multi channel age and think "there was so much quality when we had only 3, then 4, channels.
thecheesepriest 3 years ago 6
R.I.P.
Thames Television
28 July 1968-31 December 1992.
ibafilms 3 years ago 5
Yeah, what a shitty Carlton start-up.
christian2006morris 3 years ago 4
R.I.P Richard dunn
putolinefourstroke 3 years ago 3
Indeed
A man who deserved far better from a very nasty industry.
I respect how he saw out a beloved institution as Thames Television with real class and composure.
A truly honourable and much missed individual
kainer2 3 years ago 3
yes R.I.P Richard Dunn
putolinefourstroke 3 years ago
I didnt know he had died! Sad! A great man who brought the magic of Thames into my living room!
fraserkatie 2 years ago 13
My god, what has happened to tv over the past 16 years?
JAYROX1969 3 years ago 3
Indeed, tv over the past 16 years has become increasingly worse-indeed, ITV, Channel 4 and Five are are a shadow of themselves really.
Even BBC1 and BBC2 are often rubbish, but there is the odd gem to be found I feel.
bidanton 3 years ago 4
What can I add to the comments already? I fully agree - ITV went rapidly downhill from 1993 onwards. It's nearly sixteen years ago.
paulboy76 3 years ago
And with Thames' demise went the demise of good quality television on ITV. Carlton were a total sickening disaster and led the way with Granada to what we have now, an abortion called ITV1. The sooner it goes bust the better.
Ianpbx 3 years ago 4
Don't you mean abomination? Not that it matters really - either word fits.
TigerWalrus26980 3 years ago
I blame the 1994 amendment to the broadcasting act allowing companies to own multiple franchises.
Hoddersrevenge 3 years ago
The video info from the uploader says it all. The death of Thames was essentially the death of ITV. Fuck Carlton and fuck Granada.
eszettfromhell 3 years ago 3
Well don't forget at one point (pre-93) Granada made programmes just as good as Thames's.
A change of management at Granada changed all that . . .
AidanLunn 2 years ago 2
I even miss carlton now itv has got that bad! lol but thames will b forever the best itv company and in my view the best company in the world! If that bastard broacasting act of 1990 would not have gone through we still might b waking up to tv-am and then onto thames or tvs or tsw or central or granada and so on...but instead we are stuck with bland, cheap, boring old itv1! R.I.P good tv!
mikeyboy2810 3 years ago
A polished quality close from Thames to low budget Carlton start up. Welcome to 1993 and the demise of the ITV Network!
djjaseuk 3 years ago 3
Absolutely.. So sad looking back at this, you can just see the quality change from glorious Thames to gutter Carlton... If only we could go back
identlover 3 years ago 3
They took away my childhood - rainbow. -(.
PCJoejoe 3 years ago 6
I think they continued to do Rainbow (albeit with a different company producing it) - but it was crap compared to the original.
TigerWalrus26980 3 years ago
yeah I know ''Rainbow days'' or something and it was appaulling and shown on CITV after school slot
PCJoejoe 3 years ago
The one and only REAL "Rainbow" was last shown in December 1992. It was a complete scandal that the pathetic and half-hearted imitation programmes that briefly followed (a couple of years or so later) were actually allowed to have "Rainbow" in their title at all. The press, at the time, misguidedly hailed the return of "Rainbow", and quoted Geoffrey Hayes as being "shocked and shattered" that he had not been invited to take part. The whole sorry episode summed up post-Thames ITV.
paulboy76 3 years ago
Did they not drop Geoffrey Hayes from Rainbow because they thought he was too old? I remember reading that in the papers at the time. If so, then I'm disgusted!
TigerWalrus26980 3 years ago
Geoffrey Hayes was never dropped from the REAL Rainbow (i.e. Thames TV shown until 1992). The new producers. later in the 1990s, who thought that they'd try to revive it, evidently rejected him, perhaps for that reason. But there again, they knew little about "Rainbow", and even less about producing quality television.
paulboy76 3 years ago
Oh right, that must have been what it was - sounds about right, anyway. Thanks for clearing that up.
TigerWalrus26980 3 years ago
In 25 years time what will the TV archive show for this period of time pop idol Britain's got talent builders from hell all cheap programmes to produce that have a life span of 1 viewing if your desperate or crazy enough Thames television and LWT were the best from the 60s to the late 90s
darksideinside 3 years ago 4
All great shows were produced by Thames or LWT nowadays with the ITV network programmes are produces for the brain dead
why are there no great new TV programmes being made like the classic shows minder, Sweeney ,Shelly, Callan The Gentle Touch, , man about the house, George and Mildred the list goes on of great programmes
darksideinside 3 years ago 2
ahh, the end of my sixth birthday signals the end of good old Thames TV...
raspberryman 3 years ago 3
The song is I only want to be with you sung by The Tourists
JimfromLynn 3 years ago
what song is it 4 the ending 4 thames television
4yourentertanetwork 3 years ago
I totally agree with CiderGuru - 31st December 1992 was the begining of the end.
nottscombo 3 years ago 4
1983 and 1992 were the worst two years in British Independent TV History.
Im originally from Granadaland, but to this day I mourn the loss of Thames, LWT, Central, (and TVam when it became the most successful TV company in it's time).
I'm thankful to anyone who posts what is now archive material. The original VTs are often found in cardboard boxes in a cupboard.
...and Although Granada was an excellent Regional Franchise holder in it's day, they bought Carlton so now own everything.
CiderGuru 3 years ago 3
The worst two years in the history of itv,New years eve 1992 Thames lost its franchise and 27 October 2002 ITV regions lost their identies.
charlieboy7t5 3 years ago 5
They never bought Carlton
MikeyMunkyUK 3 years ago
They never bought Carlton
MikeyMunkyUK 3 years ago
and often the VTs are on Betamax of course - as Very Horrible System was the winner (Betamax never got the large majority it deserved) so people just kept on re-using the tapes that had archive TV moments on them.
Thank god for youtube. (And Sanyo for making their Betamax recorders far more reliable than Sony's or Toshiba's)
AidanLunn 2 years ago
If Thames had won the franchise in 1991 would it have made any difference to the way ITV is run today or would it still be money and ratings before quality produced programmes, and Would Thames have merged with Granada?
charlieboy7t5 3 years ago
Indeed, what if Thames had won (which they should have) in 1991, would it have made any difference to ITV now?
As for if Thames would have merged with Granada, that is possible, but of course that is hypothetical anyway!
bidanton 3 years ago
Although I have always live in the north west of England (Granada) Thames TV losing the franchise was one of the worst things that has happened to itv and I personally feel sorry for viewers in London who have been subject to that mindless inane drivel that is Carlton (muppet) TV I bet you lot prayed for the weekends when LWT used to take over
charlieboy7t5 3 years ago 2
I know I did!
KevCityboy 3 years ago
this was equal to the loss of ATV at the end of 1981 . RIP THAMES
Busterchin 3 years ago 2
31/12/92 The day ITV Died. R.I.P Thames TV
matsui2001 3 years ago 4
R.I.P ORACLE too :(
Marczykolis 3 years ago 2
Granada (after it got rid of most of it's respected programme makers soon after winning it's franchise) and Carlton really have destroyed ITV, todays it's full of mindless shows which, if they don't mention the words 'celebrity' or 'reality' are not deemed worthy of broadcast. They have destroyed regionality, the one thing that could have made ITV stand out in todays multi channel environment. Come back Thames - I miss you.
section451 3 years ago 5
@section451 I think it's the government's fault, it forced Granada and other ITV Franchisees to pay most of their earning to British Government and they haven't money to make better programmes.
Millionholes 2 months ago
Fantastic, lovely stuff, thanks.
prisoner5 3 years ago
So after thames it was carlton?
jm01231 3 years ago
Yeah and it was all downhill from there!
KevCityboy 3 years ago
Yes, the end of Thames definitely signalled the beginning of the end for ITV. Thatcher's vengeance for "Death On The Rock" in full effect.
Is my memory serving me a dud, or did Carlton outbid Thames by only £1m? A bit convenient - surely Carlton were tipped off by the government, such was their desire to kill off Thames?
Hard to believe now that there was a time when ITV was actually good. It was the very individual identities of the 15 regions which made ITV strong in the first place.
fatglyn 3 years ago
erm, 14 regions, 15 companies. London was one region that had a split weekday/weekend ITV licensee.
AidanLunn 3 years ago
the 'blip' in the VT a second before the first chime, was that the transmission switch between Thames and Carlton?
welshguy28 3 years ago
certainly
AidanLunn 3 years ago
The "hiccup" on the video was almost unavoidable; you simply can't switch analog video sources seamlessly on a massive scale like that. The blip would've happened at the transmitting stations as the engineers made the switch - Carlton would have most likely been providing a signal for some minutes before the actual switch took place.
CNash85 2 years ago
@CNash85 A television set with a Phase Locked Loop tuner showing the live transmission would not show the glitch, by virtue of the PLL correcting the phase of the stammered control signal, causing the glitch above. Potentiometer-tuner TV sets and VCRs, PLL tuner or potentiometer tuner, would pick up (and record) the glitch.
AidanLunn 1 year ago
@CNash85 You can if they are genlocked, but there's no bloody way they'd sync up competing franchises like that. They didn't bloody do it between GMTV and the regions, let alone Thames to Carlton. Thames and LWT always had the blip when they handed over at the weekends.
wuzzlevideos 7 months ago
if ITV hasn't let in CARLTON, all the regional stations would still be indenpent!
JSTVproductions 4 years ago 2
I'm afraid that's not true. It was the legislation and subsequent legislation that allowed ITV to become one big company. If it wasn't Carlton it would have been someone else.
alijanlondon 4 years ago
oh, right! but still, ITV just isn't the same anymore!
JSTVproductions 4 years ago
Yes, it's sad to say it would have happenned anyway, Carlton or no Carlton, whether the 1990 Broadcasting act had been passed or not.
James2001TV 4 years ago
yes and also i think it if wasnt carlton it would of been the BBC and that would be BBC 3 years before it was origanally made
lolguy543 4 years ago
The BBC were prohibited from bidding...
CNash85 2 years ago
Ten more years (Ish.) and whats left of Good ITV will end (Regional Staions - Ended in Oct 27 2002)
573W1E6R1FF1N 4 years ago
I remember as an 9 year old boy the end of Thames, I remember my old man going on about how it was all going to go downhill when it was first announced in 1991 Thames lost, he wasn't wrong.
When Thames went a huge chunk of ITV went as well, once Carlton got hold of Central that really was the end, one major producer of ITV going was bad enough but once Central went as well ITV really did become a pile of shit.
LWT was the only one who cared in the end & sadly even they have gone.
Johnny1989a 4 years ago 3
The day TV died...
devolution1 4 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You may be sad that thames is gone but saying that tv died when it stopped broadcasting is blowing things out of all roportion
jsam93 4 years ago
Well, in my opinion, tv DID die when Thames went off air. Not because of Thames itself, but because of the effects of the 1990 Broadcasting Act taking effect (of which Thames' franchise loss was one). It was a piss-poor piece of legislation that's dragged down the quality of British television so much over the last 15 years.
James2001TV 4 years ago 4
Also, something I didn't fit in before- just who thought it was a good idea to have the bidding for franchises? It meant whoever had the deepest pockets ended up winning, not who was offering the best service. It let companies like Carlton into the network, and lead to serious cutbacks at the companies that did win so that they could actually be able to pay what they bid. Very, very bad piece of leglislation that but British TV on the slippery slope to the pile of crap it's become today.
James2001TV 4 years ago 2
It was much worse than that, the highest bidder did NOT automatically win the franchise. If a company was judged to have bid too much then they could still lose. Companies had absolutely no idea how much they were supposed to do in order to actually win a franchise.
Because the process of choosing a winner was so mysterious it was wide open to manipulation for political reasons, which seems to have happened with Thames. Thames was clearly the best programme maker on ITV, so why did they lose?
retrogamevideos 3 years ago 2
Yes, it was stupid. There were also ones that lost on the "quality threshold", such as CPV-TV (Richard Branson's group) who actually bid more than Carlton, London Independent who outbid LWT and North West TV who outbid Granada. Of course, quality still didn't win out, the best companies didn't win and even if they had, quality would still have suffered through having to pay stupid sums to the government rather than putting it into programming and service.
James2001TV 3 years ago 2
Or poor old TVS, which bid a massive amount but was deemed to have overbid by the ITC, who thought that they wouldn't be able to sustain themselves while paying the £59 million per year that they had bid.
CNash85 2 years ago
Look at the shit tv has become today, Thames was pure class!!
bluesbrother37 3 years ago 8
Yes, modern TV is worse than TV from 60's-90's. Thames TV is the best ITV franchise holder!!!
Marczykolis 3 years ago 2
Thames gave us such great programmes like The Sweeney, Morecambe & Wise, Rumpole Of The Bailey, Minder and The Bill and so on. Carlton on the other gave us...The Good Sex Guide. Thatcher or whoever it was that made the decision to rob Thames of their franchise should be made to hang their heads (or just be hanged full stop) in shame to this very day if they're not doing so already (although I very much doubt it).
archer4721 4 years ago 4
Wow, Carlton yoinked ITV from Thames the SECOND it turned midnight!
nisha82 4 years ago
That was the time one franchise ended and the other began, so it had to be exactly then. By the way, it was BT who did the switching
alijanlondon 4 years ago
Carlton = BOLLOX!!!!!!!!!!
bluesbrother37 4 years ago 11
Today's TV = BOLLOX!!!!!!
JAYROX1969 3 years ago 3
mostly
k5uk 2 years ago
As a yankee, I enjoyed watching Thames based programms while growing up. I didn't and never knew they lost frachise. What really killed Thames? Can anyone let me know Britian.
MicBty79 4 years ago
Maggie Thatcher.
She didn't like the "Death on the Rock" documentary made by Thames, and decided she would secretly try to get rid of Thames. It wrecked ITV, if one company would have stayed truly independent, it would have been Thames. The rest are controlled by Granada and Carlton. Oh well.
Slay33D 4 years ago
Thames may have lost their broadcasting franchise but they still made programmes for broadcasters after they died. Indeed, they are still around today - as part of Fremantle Media and are known on-screen as "Talkback-Thames" after they merged with Talkback productions.
AidanLunn 2 years ago
Thames was one of the best ITV companies within the network's 53 year history, end of. Mike S.
hugalove 4 years ago 4
Weird how all the stations that shut down that day began with 'T' - Thames, TSW, TVS, TV-am
DuncanMcA 4 years ago
Tyne Tees? Hmm...
prodge 4 years ago
although except for Thames, the "T" in the other 3 stood for "Television", so it's not that weird.
FabFM 4 years ago
Very good point DuncanMCA
KevCityboy 3 years ago
DuncanMcA, you forgot Oracle. So not all of them who ended that day began their names with a "T".
AidanLunn 3 years ago
Very sad day for British television :(
DuncanMcA 4 years ago
i agree with all the sentiments of the below and the provider of this clip. the "carltonisation" of tv, morphed into the carlton-granadaisation almost has ruined itv. news at ten coming back is great news, the best thing 3 has done since i can remember. where i live (southern, meridian) the old studio at northam has been closed down, the sun-faded silhouette on the wall where the meridian sun has been torn down serves a timely reminder of tv's and tvs's golden age.
jamesW123 4 years ago
Beyond Thames, even, I had to cover my ears when Major started up (the only reason I didn't cry that day is that I was too young to really understand: my mum cried). Something horribly mendacious about ending that montage with the Union flag, this whole charade of false power ... setting the tone for what ITN was to become.
RobinCarmody 4 years ago
The moment where creativity and innovation in British TV turned to bean counters deciding everything. Thanks Maggie.
barbarossaUK 4 years ago
Right at the end of this clip, during the "animated" opening to Carlton New Year - listen carefully at the "Smack!" bit: a snide swipe from Carlton at a familiar trumpet fanfare, or just my imagination?
markwrightrf 4 years ago
I don't think it's just your imagination, Mark.
RobinCarmody 4 years ago