Call it what you will. Your statement, to me, had authoritarian connotations. You professed that those were the REAL statistics (even though you gave no source until asked), implying the others posted, and the ones he gave were wrong; when in fact the opposite was true. I am not saying you MEANT to misrepresent the truth, but that IS what happened.
The simple question is WHAT where his lies? I would like an answer.
Right, I gave that stat. You come on here pretending to be an authority on statistical information (hence the 'REAL' statistics), but your facts were WRONG. There is no excuse for it. You gave no sources, & it took me all of 3minutes to find those. You have simply decided you don't like him, and thus believe all his stats are wrong, then you search to find out what you've already presupposed. You get what your looking for.
It's on page 17 on the pdf link I gave, in the table. Nothing he said was factually incorrect. SOME socialized medicine practicing countries it IS under 50%. The survival rate for both cancers is the highest in America vs the rest of the world. I hate to defend him but damn, the internet is right there. Show me his inaccuracy.
Overall, 99% of men diagnosed with prostate cancer survive at least 5 years. Ninety one percent of all prostate cancers are found while they are still within the prostate or only in nearby areas. The 5-year relative survival rate for these men is nearly 100%. For the men whose cancer has already spread to distant parts of the body when it is found, about 32% will survive at least 5 years. - cancer dot org
eastwood -- Moving won't be necessary. If Rudy wins, we'll be citizens of the Peoples Republic of China just as soon as they call in the notes on our war debt.
Those boys can lie like they mean it. Rudy seem like the anti-christ to me. With heroes like him we don't need "terrorists". We will have the Iraq war spreading over here and brown shirts beating down our doors. All the lipstick coming from China won't make that pig look pretty.
My chance of surviving prostate cancer -- and thank God I was cured of it -- in the United States: 82 percent," Giuliani says in a new radio spot airing in New Hampshire. "My chances of surviving prostate cancer in England: Only 44 percent, under socialized medicine."
According to the United Kingdom's Office for National Statistics, for men diagnosed with prostate cancer between 1999 and 2003, the "five-year survival rate" -- a common measurement in cancer statistics -- was 74.4 percent.
Overall, 99% of men diagnosed with prostate cancer survive at least 5 years. Ninety one percent of all prostate cancers are found while they are still within the prostate or only in nearby areas. The 5-year relative survival rate for these men is nearly 100%. For the men whose cancer has already spread to distant parts of the body when it is found, about 32% will survive at least 5 years. - cancer dot org
Agreed, but where do we go for insurance? Also, you mention cancers that are best treated with preventative medicine and early detection. Not the more difficult cancers to treat. Cancer survival rates are lower in Europe and higher in America when based on all cancers.
Wrong. Your facts are backwards. Prostate cancer survival rate in the US is over 99%, breast is about 90%. Can you give a source? I have posted governmental figures in other posts, feel free to look them up.
Not only was the first statistic he brought up a complete fabrication, but he should also think twice before criticizing the healthcare system in france, since it was rated much higher than ours. This man is not simply a liar- part of his campaign platform is to intentionally ignore the constitution and attack iran without congressional aproval. FUCK YOU RUDY!
in the uk and Europe we have a fantastic FREE health service rather than the 3rd world capitalistic health policies you have in the U.S. Free Health care for all. you as Americans should fight for this
it is obvious that Giuliani represents those Americans that have been unfortunate to live in one place all of their life and not know better. So I forgive his ignorance:)
Its true the percentages are lower in other countries but there are more instances of Breast Cancer in the United States than in any other country. So yeah you get sick alot easier but as long as you have the money we can fix you!
Does he know anything. He is always saying "they" have the info. He is so afraid of being wrong! Have some balls and say I know this and that. His kids are so smart that they know he knows nothing.
Well let's make a concerted effort to bring those numbers downwhile providing healthcare for every American. I wonder how many lives are shortened because they have no helthcare or inadequate coverage.
oh... uhh... by the way, I live and love in Canada my brothers and sisters and I'm neither conservative or liberal... healthcare NEEDS to be implimented... and dont say well waitlists #!#%? pfft... if i need surgery I can get it as soon as i NEED it
Brazil, Costa Rica, Canada, Chile, Cuba Uruguay,Australia, Brunei, India, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Seychelles, Sri Lanka, Taiwan and Thailand have universal health care so... they're wrong and pundits like rudy are right?
Uhhhh...so what? Sri Lanka has better care than us? I don't like Rudy but his facts are correct. You can say something is or isn't valid bc others are doing it. You have to defend UHC or private care on it's MERITS - not popularity. Rudy did this (whether you agree w/him or not). You gave a classic strawman fallacy.
It is NOT a basic human right of yours you FORCE or COERCE ANYONE to pay for your healthcare. Yeah I'll talk waiting lists, how about your supreme court in 05, creating a more privatized system? Did it have anything to do with shortages and wait times?
Iran has public healthcare, what of it? We have higher cancer survival rates, more advanced technology (MRI's CT scanners), and 10% of doctors schooled in Canada practice in America. Why is that? Price controls on wages?
Human rights don't conflict with other human rights. That is why they are. If you stretch Life, Liberty, Property that way, abortion could be seen as denying life. UHC is an obvious violation of personal liberty.
Everyone pays through taxes for public schools, even the singles w/o kids. Everyone pays for police protection, even if you never need it in your lifetime. Same with fire. Everyone pays to fund public libraries too, even if you never have occasion to use it.
Libraries and schools are PREDOMINATELY paid for on local levels, not Federal; this however is a federal program. Also this isn't about education, libraries, fire, police, none of it. This is healthcare. Logic for one doesn't carry over to the other. We have 'socialized' highways, this however is different. You have to argue on it's merits alone, not by comparison. HOW is it better?
It is more than 4x more expensive than Fed spending on Edu. w/larger yearly increases.
Nope. If you have a heart attack you go to the emergency room, and get treated. You may be in debt up to your neck afterwards, but you won't die or be denied emergency care (heart attack, stroke, seizure, gun shot, car crash, etc).
Or you smoke, eat poorly, and exercise rarely. Why should I pay for your poor health choices? America has the highest obesity average in the world, public schools serve soda and twinkies for lunch.
We have protection of peoples rights, and property.
JustJoel, re: "Why should I pay for your poor health choices?"
What do you think you are paying for when you pay health insurance rates? They are high precisely because they cover most of the expenses of their policy holders, some of whom make good health choices, but most do not. And the rates are also high because the healthcare insurance companies maximize profits, dropping coverage to those that prove to expensive to honor their contracts with.
Again, wrong. I pay based on my application information, which why rate consists of based on age, gender, smoker, weight, previous history, etc. I pay for myself. Private insurers do have clients in risk pools and so forth, but I pay based on my given information, if I lied or even spelled my name wrong I would be denied.
justjoely: if all of the pool you were in were healthy as horses, the rate you would pay would be less-- the sum of the premiums must be enough to pay for all the claims based on an actuarial analysis, and provide a profit to the insurer. so in fact, all the behaviors of everyone in the pool impacts what you pay. unfair but true.
If we were all healthy, we wouldn't need healthcare. Funny mine was lower bc I was a non-smoker.
My scream is not a scream, it's text. I don't like Rudy, and would NEVER vote for him. However! His facts were correct, so what is there to say! I'm sorry, to me it seems every socialist is coming out of the woodwork SCREAMING for UHC. I am stating It WON'T work.
They are not pricey. Not all of them. It's called comparing rates. Yes it's a pain in the ass, but thank you internet. Companies can only maximize profits to the extent that, if someone else can do it cheaper, they will lose business. Insurers can drop people, they can go to another one, although most don't drop, just raise rates.
You're kidding yourself if you think you aren't paying for others, as well as the high profits of your company. And you need not lie to have those services denied. I know from personal experience that health companies regularly drop those among them that suddenly develop real (and expensive) health issues. They care more for their profits than honoring their contracts. And new companies deny you for having pre-existing conditions.
Great, you have your personal exp. There are numerous articles that say the opposite. Economics tells you the opposite. Along with paying rates based on my valid-pending information, also I am not coerced into in, I can voluntarily end the contract, and cease giving them money. Not the case w/government. I am forced BY LAW to pay for your healthcare, and become a criminal otherwise.
People are suffering under our present system, & yes I know that from personal experience. Economics says that the insurance companies are making out like bandits at the public's expense. The system is broken. And people are suffering. So happy you're doing well. You fellow citizens aren't so fortunate w/their options. There are other solutions than those idiotic plans Hillary & Romney put forward. It's high time America led in this field instead of following the rest of the civilized world.
Please. I never said our system doesn't have it's flaws. The question is - how do we fix it? I believe in capitalist solutions. You believe in socialist ones. Not ALL of the people are suffering 84% are insured. We lead the world in cutting edge technology, cancer survival rates, our problem area is accessibility. Socialized medicine leads to endless demand, price controls, rationing, loss of liberty, and bureaucratic inefficiency thanks to corruption.
The fact that 45% of all healthcare dollars coming from the government. Hence the corruption (what do you think 30,000,000 dollars in contributions buys you?). I have my problems, you have yours. I shouldn't have to pay for yours as well, there are programs for those who truly cannot afford to pay. Hilary is for socialized care, I am not.
I am not for socialized medicine either but if you think you are not paying for people without care you don't understand how insurance works. Visit a local ER and see hundreds of people waiting for hours because of minor medical problems they can't pay for. This is paid for by inflating cost for insured and figured into your monthly payment.
There is no way around not paying for some expenditures. The question is about full healthcare coverage. As I said the gov pays for 45% of the costs, so some of it is mine. I accept paying for those who truly cannot afford it, and emergency care. But I cannot accept Universal Healthcare, as well as the recent proposals to nearly double S-Chip.
According to your 84% statistic, that leaves some 50 million US citizens w/out any healthcare coverage. It does those 50 million no good if they have no access to our wonderful medicine. There are other solutions beside total socialized medicine, although for the life of me you won't convince me that that would be such a horrible thing. I know too many people in other countries who have something to really brag about when it comes to medicine: ALL OF THEIR CITIZENS HAVE IT, unlike America.
There is way too much corruption to even think of socialized medicine in the US. The medicare drug program was one of the biggest scams perpetrated on the citizens since the Federal reserve. Taxpayers are forking over about 600 dollars a month to pay an inflated price for drugs I like every other low income person were getting for free. Even if they got the fat tax pushed through we would have to borrow a couple of billion dollars a day to fund it.
scooter, don't think I haven't thought of that. Plus y'all have same sex marraige. Pot is treated more realistically. Y'all don't go to war on whims. It's hard to find a nicer people. If it only weren't so damned cold. If there was only some way for the entire globe to quickly warm up to make living there more comfortable. :) Yes, Canada is looking better and better every day.
We are leading the world. We lead precisely bc we don't follow the rest of the world. We have more specialized care centers than anywhere else. Our quality is very high, we need to address accessibility. There are more choices needed, not less. Government only creates more problems. The more people competing to find the best care will produce the best results.
justjoely: you live in a dream world. how can you say we lead the world, lol?? you're talking about those folks who can get care. for people who've lost their jobs, they may die from lack of good care. you have no sense of social justice whatsoever, so there's no point in arguing with you, but for the record, you're a sociopath and don't know it.
Yes, LEAD the world in QUALITY. Accessibility you can make a case for.
I have lost a job, I have gone hungry. What's the point? They will not DIE from lack of good care in an emergency room. You can get treated there, and simply have a doctor's bill. This over-dramatized portrayal is like the Kid hawking Schip. You can make all the presumptions you want of me, but unless you can argue for UHC I don't really give a shit.
no but see... its paid by taxes... and the lowest class and the middle class... get tax cuts so if they're in a financial problem... they dont need to worry about paying big huge surgery bills
justjoely: Yours is the scream of every guy in the universe who throws a tantrum when he has to do something he doesn't want to do. man, it's getting old.
mhmm all those socailized medicine countries dont know what their doing so Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Argentina....
Call it what you will. Your statement, to me, had authoritarian connotations. You professed that those were the REAL statistics (even though you gave no source until asked), implying the others posted, and the ones he gave were wrong; when in fact the opposite was true. I am not saying you MEANT to misrepresent the truth, but that IS what happened.
The simple question is WHAT where his lies? I would like an answer.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Right, I gave that stat. You come on here pretending to be an authority on statistical information (hence the 'REAL' statistics), but your facts were WRONG. There is no excuse for it. You gave no sources, & it took me all of 3minutes to find those. You have simply decided you don't like him, and thus believe all his stats are wrong, then you search to find out what you've already presupposed. You get what your looking for.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
It's on page 17 on the pdf link I gave, in the table. Nothing he said was factually incorrect. SOME socialized medicine practicing countries it IS under 50%. The survival rate for both cancers is the highest in America vs the rest of the world. I hate to defend him but damn, the internet is right there. Show me his inaccuracy.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
You two sound like the ladies sewing circle. Get a grip.
shaire99 4 years ago
Good one. Glad you have something meaningful to offer.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Then you are wrong. The survival rate in America for prostate cancer in all men is 99%, breast cancer in women is 89%
source: cancer dot org/downloads/STT/CAFF2007PWSecured dot pdf
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
In England, prostate cancer survival is 66% and breast cancer survival is 77%
info dot cancerresearchuk dot org/cancerstats/survival/latestrates/
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
according to statistics dot gov dot uk/cci/nugget dot asp?id=861
In the Uk survival rates for prostate were 74% in men, and breast cancer survival was 81%
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Since you took the time, care to give a source? Care to list criteria? What because you say REAL in capital letters, it is so?
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Overall, 99% of men diagnosed with prostate cancer survive at least 5 years. Ninety one percent of all prostate cancers are found while they are still within the prostate or only in nearby areas. The 5-year relative survival rate for these men is nearly 100%. For the men whose cancer has already spread to distant parts of the body when it is found, about 32% will survive at least 5 years. - cancer dot org
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Rudy is an ASS!
also
check out search on U tube- hr 1955
freedom of speech is almost history.
kramlafup 4 years ago
If Rudy wins I will renounce my citizenship and move to Canada...Im not joking either.
eastwood13 4 years ago 3
eastwood -- Moving won't be necessary. If Rudy wins, we'll be citizens of the Peoples Republic of China just as soon as they call in the notes on our war debt.
cobwebhead 4 years ago
Those boys can lie like they mean it. Rudy seem like the anti-christ to me. With heroes like him we don't need "terrorists". We will have the Iraq war spreading over here and brown shirts beating down our doors. All the lipstick coming from China won't make that pig look pretty.
hypnofan35 4 years ago 6
My chance of surviving prostate cancer -- and thank God I was cured of it -- in the United States: 82 percent," Giuliani says in a new radio spot airing in New Hampshire. "My chances of surviving prostate cancer in England: Only 44 percent, under socialized medicine."
According to the United Kingdom's Office for National Statistics, for men diagnosed with prostate cancer between 1999 and 2003, the "five-year survival rate" -- a common measurement in cancer statistics -- was 74.4 percent.
jimbojim68 4 years ago 2
Overall, 99% of men diagnosed with prostate cancer survive at least 5 years. Ninety one percent of all prostate cancers are found while they are still within the prostate or only in nearby areas. The 5-year relative survival rate for these men is nearly 100%. For the men whose cancer has already spread to distant parts of the body when it is found, about 32% will survive at least 5 years. - cancer dot org
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Such a clown he is!
aminmos 4 years ago 2
So if we get socialized medicine here are survival rates will automatically drop? Maybe they'll go higher.
Survival in Europe vs the US: breast (79.0% vs 90.1%), and prostate cancer (77.5% vs 99.3%)
Authors of the study said it was better pre-screening here, such as mamograms, not the time waiting to be treated afterwards, like Giulinai says.
If more people have insurance, more people will get preventive care, which is cheaper than surgery, saving us money and lives.
jimbojim68 4 years ago 2
Agreed, but where do we go for insurance? Also, you mention cancers that are best treated with preventative medicine and early detection. Not the more difficult cancers to treat. Cancer survival rates are lower in Europe and higher in America when based on all cancers.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Wrong. Your facts are backwards. Prostate cancer survival rate in the US is over 99%, breast is about 90%. Can you give a source? I have posted governmental figures in other posts, feel free to look them up.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Rudy, try this:
"If we would change to general healthcare, then the 9/11 terrorists win"(btw,I was mayor..)
janpauwels 4 years ago 2
hahahaha oh and on a final note... 9/11 :P
scooter952 4 years ago
Not only was the first statistic he brought up a complete fabrication, but he should also think twice before criticizing the healthcare system in france, since it was rated much higher than ours. This man is not simply a liar- part of his campaign platform is to intentionally ignore the constitution and attack iran without congressional aproval. FUCK YOU RUDY!
Underwater7 4 years ago 3
Rudy your nothing but a Fascist Neo Con Cock Sucking Son Of A Bitch. I say that on behalf of all freedom loving people both European and American
ghost74surfer 4 years ago
in the uk and Europe we have a fantastic FREE health service rather than the 3rd world capitalistic health policies you have in the U.S. Free Health care for all. you as Americans should fight for this
ghost74surfer 4 years ago 2
Rudy you are so full of shit
ghost74surfer 4 years ago 2
Another of example of Giuliani pulling statistics out of his arse, much like he did in the last GOP debate.
dafttool 4 years ago 4
politicalcalculations dot blogspot dot com/2007/10/closer-look-at-cancer-survival-rates dot html
telegraph dot co dot uk/news/main dot jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/21/ncancer121 dot xml
He told no lies, though the clip was short.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
it is obvious that Giuliani represents those Americans that have been unfortunate to live in one place all of their life and not know better. So I forgive his ignorance:)
marcusjansen239369 4 years ago
I am completely serious when i say this, but i think rudy is crazy. no, like borderline insane. i'm very scared.
videostuf 4 years ago 4
Its true the percentages are lower in other countries but there are more instances of Breast Cancer in the United States than in any other country. So yeah you get sick alot easier but as long as you have the money we can fix you!
WhyNotTruth 4 years ago
Rudy doesn't have the experience or the ethics to run our country bottom line
mikie1973 4 years ago
Does he know anything. He is always saying "they" have the info. He is so afraid of being wrong! Have some balls and say I know this and that. His kids are so smart that they know he knows nothing.
jeezychreezy1 4 years ago
Well let's make a concerted effort to bring those numbers downwhile providing healthcare for every American. I wonder how many lives are shortened because they have no helthcare or inadequate coverage.
SLAVEforLISA 4 years ago
Our survival rates should be even higher if everyone has access to preventive care.
SLAVEforLISA 4 years ago
oh... uhh... by the way, I live and love in Canada my brothers and sisters and I'm neither conservative or liberal... healthcare NEEDS to be implimented... and dont say well waitlists #!#%? pfft... if i need surgery I can get it as soon as i NEED it
scooter952 4 years ago 2
this shouldnt be a $%^@# political issue! its BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS not a thing to be dealt with by private insurance companies!
scooter952 4 years ago 2
Brazil, Costa Rica, Canada, Chile, Cuba Uruguay,Australia, Brunei, India, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Seychelles, Sri Lanka, Taiwan and Thailand have universal health care so... they're wrong and pundits like rudy are right?
scooter952 4 years ago 4
Uhhhh...so what? Sri Lanka has better care than us? I don't like Rudy but his facts are correct. You can say something is or isn't valid bc others are doing it. You have to defend UHC or private care on it's MERITS - not popularity. Rudy did this (whether you agree w/him or not). You gave a classic strawman fallacy.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
what? that people dont live as long in Canada as they do in the states?! pfft... no big waitlists man... i can get surgery as soon as i need it
scooter952 4 years ago 2
basic..human...rights...
scooter952 4 years ago 2
It is NOT a basic human right of yours you FORCE or COERCE ANYONE to pay for your healthcare. Yeah I'll talk waiting lists, how about your supreme court in 05, creating a more privatized system? Did it have anything to do with shortages and wait times?
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Iran has public healthcare, what of it? We have higher cancer survival rates, more advanced technology (MRI's CT scanners), and 10% of doctors schooled in Canada practice in America. Why is that? Price controls on wages?
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Human rights don't conflict with other human rights. That is why they are. If you stretch Life, Liberty, Property that way, abortion could be seen as denying life. UHC is an obvious violation of personal liberty.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
You get a smoke alarm, you practice fire safety, your family knows what to do.
At 3am you wake up and realize everything's on fire. Fire dept. comes and puts it out. Everyone pays them through taxes.
You eat right, exercise, and live healthy. One day you have a heart attack; you have no health insurance. Bye.
We have socialized Police, socialized Fire prot., socialized schooling.
drdan1029 4 years ago 2
Everyone pays through taxes for public schools, even the singles w/o kids. Everyone pays for police protection, even if you never need it in your lifetime. Same with fire. Everyone pays to fund public libraries too, even if you never have occasion to use it.
drdan1029 4 years ago 2
Libraries and schools are PREDOMINATELY paid for on local levels, not Federal; this however is a federal program. Also this isn't about education, libraries, fire, police, none of it. This is healthcare. Logic for one doesn't carry over to the other. We have 'socialized' highways, this however is different. You have to argue on it's merits alone, not by comparison. HOW is it better?
It is more than 4x more expensive than Fed spending on Edu. w/larger yearly increases.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Nope. If you have a heart attack you go to the emergency room, and get treated. You may be in debt up to your neck afterwards, but you won't die or be denied emergency care (heart attack, stroke, seizure, gun shot, car crash, etc).
Or you smoke, eat poorly, and exercise rarely. Why should I pay for your poor health choices? America has the highest obesity average in the world, public schools serve soda and twinkies for lunch.
We have protection of peoples rights, and property.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
JustJoel, re: "Why should I pay for your poor health choices?"
What do you think you are paying for when you pay health insurance rates? They are high precisely because they cover most of the expenses of their policy holders, some of whom make good health choices, but most do not. And the rates are also high because the healthcare insurance companies maximize profits, dropping coverage to those that prove to expensive to honor their contracts with.
dafttool 4 years ago 4
Again, wrong. I pay based on my application information, which why rate consists of based on age, gender, smoker, weight, previous history, etc. I pay for myself. Private insurers do have clients in risk pools and so forth, but I pay based on my given information, if I lied or even spelled my name wrong I would be denied.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
justjoely: if all of the pool you were in were healthy as horses, the rate you would pay would be less-- the sum of the premiums must be enough to pay for all the claims based on an actuarial analysis, and provide a profit to the insurer. so in fact, all the behaviors of everyone in the pool impacts what you pay. unfair but true.
nicholas9999 4 years ago
If we were all healthy, we wouldn't need healthcare. Funny mine was lower bc I was a non-smoker.
My scream is not a scream, it's text. I don't like Rudy, and would NEVER vote for him. However! His facts were correct, so what is there to say! I'm sorry, to me it seems every socialist is coming out of the woodwork SCREAMING for UHC. I am stating It WON'T work.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
They are not pricey. Not all of them. It's called comparing rates. Yes it's a pain in the ass, but thank you internet. Companies can only maximize profits to the extent that, if someone else can do it cheaper, they will lose business. Insurers can drop people, they can go to another one, although most don't drop, just raise rates.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
You're kidding yourself if you think you aren't paying for others, as well as the high profits of your company. And you need not lie to have those services denied. I know from personal experience that health companies regularly drop those among them that suddenly develop real (and expensive) health issues. They care more for their profits than honoring their contracts. And new companies deny you for having pre-existing conditions.
dafttool 4 years ago 3
Great, you have your personal exp. There are numerous articles that say the opposite. Economics tells you the opposite. Along with paying rates based on my valid-pending information, also I am not coerced into in, I can voluntarily end the contract, and cease giving them money. Not the case w/government. I am forced BY LAW to pay for your healthcare, and become a criminal otherwise.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
**it** not *in*
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
People are suffering under our present system, & yes I know that from personal experience. Economics says that the insurance companies are making out like bandits at the public's expense. The system is broken. And people are suffering. So happy you're doing well. You fellow citizens aren't so fortunate w/their options. There are other solutions than those idiotic plans Hillary & Romney put forward. It's high time America led in this field instead of following the rest of the civilized world.
dafttool 4 years ago 3
Please. I never said our system doesn't have it's flaws. The question is - how do we fix it? I believe in capitalist solutions. You believe in socialist ones. Not ALL of the people are suffering 84% are insured. We lead the world in cutting edge technology, cancer survival rates, our problem area is accessibility. Socialized medicine leads to endless demand, price controls, rationing, loss of liberty, and bureaucratic inefficiency thanks to corruption.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
The fact that 45% of all healthcare dollars coming from the government. Hence the corruption (what do you think 30,000,000 dollars in contributions buys you?). I have my problems, you have yours. I shouldn't have to pay for yours as well, there are programs for those who truly cannot afford to pay. Hilary is for socialized care, I am not.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
I am not for socialized medicine either but if you think you are not paying for people without care you don't understand how insurance works. Visit a local ER and see hundreds of people waiting for hours because of minor medical problems they can't pay for. This is paid for by inflating cost for insured and figured into your monthly payment.
crazycatfguy 4 years ago 2
There is no way around not paying for some expenditures. The question is about full healthcare coverage. As I said the gov pays for 45% of the costs, so some of it is mine. I accept paying for those who truly cannot afford it, and emergency care. But I cannot accept Universal Healthcare, as well as the recent proposals to nearly double S-Chip.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
According to your 84% statistic, that leaves some 50 million US citizens w/out any healthcare coverage. It does those 50 million no good if they have no access to our wonderful medicine. There are other solutions beside total socialized medicine, although for the life of me you won't convince me that that would be such a horrible thing. I know too many people in other countries who have something to really brag about when it comes to medicine: ALL OF THEIR CITIZENS HAVE IT, unlike America.
dafttool 4 years ago 3
There is way too much corruption to even think of socialized medicine in the US. The medicare drug program was one of the biggest scams perpetrated on the citizens since the Federal reserve. Taxpayers are forking over about 600 dollars a month to pay an inflated price for drugs I like every other low income person were getting for free. Even if they got the fat tax pushed through we would have to borrow a couple of billion dollars a day to fund it.
crazycatfguy 4 years ago 2
come to Canada... we'll give you surgery and be polite about it :D
scooter952 4 years ago 2
scooter, don't think I haven't thought of that. Plus y'all have same sex marraige. Pot is treated more realistically. Y'all don't go to war on whims. It's hard to find a nicer people. If it only weren't so damned cold. If there was only some way for the entire globe to quickly warm up to make living there more comfortable. :) Yes, Canada is looking better and better every day.
dafttool 4 years ago 2
We are leading the world. We lead precisely bc we don't follow the rest of the world. We have more specialized care centers than anywhere else. Our quality is very high, we need to address accessibility. There are more choices needed, not less. Government only creates more problems. The more people competing to find the best care will produce the best results.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
justjoely: you live in a dream world. how can you say we lead the world, lol?? you're talking about those folks who can get care. for people who've lost their jobs, they may die from lack of good care. you have no sense of social justice whatsoever, so there's no point in arguing with you, but for the record, you're a sociopath and don't know it.
nicholas9999 4 years ago
Yes, LEAD the world in QUALITY. Accessibility you can make a case for.
I have lost a job, I have gone hungry. What's the point? They will not DIE from lack of good care in an emergency room. You can get treated there, and simply have a doctor's bill. This over-dramatized portrayal is like the Kid hawking Schip. You can make all the presumptions you want of me, but unless you can argue for UHC I don't really give a shit.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
no but see... its paid by taxes... and the lowest class and the middle class... get tax cuts so if they're in a financial problem... they dont need to worry about paying big huge surgery bills
scooter952 4 years ago
justjoely: Yours is the scream of every guy in the universe who throws a tantrum when he has to do something he doesn't want to do. man, it's getting old.
nicholas9999 4 years ago
mhmm all those socailized medicine countries dont know what their doing so Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Argentina....
scooter952 4 years ago 3
Is that so?
silversalvo 4 years ago