Since this is likely a video most watched by rationalists I'll give a great example. If you always compromised and took the middle road, you'd advocate 'teaching the controversy'. And I bet no rationalists want THAT.
Fact is, a compromise is only viable when both sides have a point, sometimes one side is just plain WRONG, and even a compromise with them will be destructive. There's times to talk and times to fight, even if you hate fighting, there are.
Another thing is that sometimes anger, even perpetual anger can be JUSTIFIED.
Perpetual anger against injustice is better then working with the injust, and ignoring their injustices in the name of some nebulous harmony that the injust just laugh at.
There's alot in the world people SHOULD be angry about. Like for example the rich not paying taxes much yet receiving gobs of cash FROM taxes. People should be absolutely LIVID about that. Not friendly and compromising.
The way I see it compromises are only valid in SOME circumstances. Some people'll run roughshod over you, kick you in the face and laugh at you if you try to make nicey-nice with them. You gotta stand up for something and stand for something. Pick a good goal to fight for. Like good education, or social justice etc. And NOT compromise on that.
There is an irony in that the observers take on the angry mind is one of abolutes, precisely the charge the observer is levelling at the angry mind.
Psychology as it is today, is to a true and as yet unformulated science of the mind, what alchemy is to chemisty.
Sooooo much interpretation, assumption, presumption and so little evidence.
I know people working in the field are doing the best with what tools they have but a little humility about the dubious nature of conclusions would be nice.
@TheCelticChimp I make no claims. I'm simply suggesting that others "think about this". I am not a psychologist, but I've read extensively on the subject. I assume you must be either a practising psychologist or psychiatrist to be claiming that others need not explore this or make up their own minds. The effects of an inflexible personality are damaging. I'm reading "Malignant Self Love: Narcissism Revisited" [Vaknin] & "Without Conscience" [Hare]. I think you are mistaken.
I apologise if it seemed like I was suggesting you were the one making the claims and being presumptuous, I presumed :) that you were reading someone else's material?
I hold no qualification of any kind in psychology/psychiatry. I have read extensively on the subject. I have studied Carl Rogers, various takes on transactional analysis, gestalt, CBT, character styles by Johnson and other texts and systems.
All of them are guilty of dramatic over simplification....
Thankfully, neuroscientific findings (i.e. hard scientific data) are being more and more considered by the field. It is evolving towards a true science but I don't think it is there yet.
Every psycological theory out there probably contains some truth but the amount of reaching and guessing currently invovled makes it a highly dubious science.
Conceptual systems are dangeous in any field. Necessary to greater of lesser extents but always dangerous.
Good vid, I have also noticed how these "minds" depend on being charismatic,attractive and alluring to gather the troops as they say. they often prey on the weak,young and others. they give others comfort via their binary philosophies and simple worldview.....
This video is indeed something to think about. I recognize flickers of myself in the description from time to time (I could probably use some anger management, haha). Good video.
you should name these videos 'The Gary Files' as you are quite interested in his mind, if you correctly label these videos as they are we as the audience will finally see how important this mind within a mind is to the videos maker, to be so consumed with another individuals mind- as spock would say, "...fascinating"
@maynardyorke I'm interested in how groups can support this kind of thinking and how it makes it more self-assured as it becomes less willing to see the complexity of the human condition...Gary is one example of that happening on YouTube.
Add to this the terrible awareness of how dark our times must be, that heroes such as they should meet such (largely imagined and imaginatively large) opposition.
Good! Glad to see some of these incoherent troll types have to play somewhere else. I don't always leave comments, but I usually read a fair amount of them anyway. You're doing the right thing.
@InvincibleNumanist I have now blocked you permanently from my channel. But I'm leaving your ridiculous, vindictive, totally wrong comment here. I've put up with 4 years of this kind of stupid abuse.
You can believe any absurd theory of life you like, but you can not bring your inability to reason to a coherent conclusion to my channel page any longer.
Go play your pointless, vicious game somewhere else.
In case that wasn't clear: Leave me the fuck alone.
@2bsirius I hope you're aware of the irony in your 'angry' comment on InvincibleNumanist. Some users approach are negative (It seems to fit in an antinatalism tradition). Let them play and don't react back Every kind of reaction is a confirmation for them but they expose themselves in their narrow minded obsessions. Blocking isn't smart: take abusive words courageously, It shows that your serious views count. A thick skin is useful on internet: feel the distance in your own private 'net-shell'.
@2bsirius I respect your point of view and you're right but... putting a lot of effort in purifying your channel or vid reactions is a waste of energy and in the meanwhile you're losing focus and weaken you're nutshell message. Showing your irritated mind attracts pathological bugs...And blocking is a totalitarian manner. Love the bug by ignoring them they will be bored at the end and leave.
@2bsirius Remember classic Greece Goddess Pallas Athene with her powerful aegis ...a shield as a personal (also mental) amour: keeping insulting arrows at a distance. The miscalling tongue shoots broken arrows as an ineffective point of view. Why border.
@trilerkiler Btw I took a look at your channel page and at your recent comments on other videos...You are free to express your opinions, but if you become abusive, you will be history.
Your fine vid COUNTS and proofed that the feeling of being depressed is a result of becoming powerless and is connected with paranoia: haunting angry the depressing enemy. With the back against the wall the right wing sees evil socialism in EVERY collective approach, the left wing sees in EVERY banker an evil capitalist. But those who fight the evil power become influential themselves and are blind for their own extremism. Rulers melancholic generalization: emotions tend to be totalitarian.
Good video. Excellent insights. To make it better you only need to add that you are describing the pathologically angry mind. Why need not be a psychologist to recognize what is ROUTINELY abnormal.
Richard Hofstadter wrote of our culture’s longtime devaluation of the head in favor of the heart and a historic tendency to prefer people and phenomena — educational approaches, types of religious experience — motivated by passion or gut rather than intellect or reason...but was his position in society biasing his position?...regards...
This immediately reminded me of something I was reading about recently:
First, I read a survey that blew me away: the more scientific understanding a democrat has, the more likely they are to believe in man made global warming, but more understanding a republican has, the more likely they are to be skeptical. That was so bizarre that I kept hunting for info on such connections, and eventually stumbled on a world of research that's simply astonishing.
Whether trying to understand unnecessary force used by police on peaceful prostesters (ex: Occupy movement), or the rightwing's approval of torture, or how Bush could've been re-elected largely by the argument that "gay marriage will destroy America", or the walking bundles of contradictions that rightwingers manifest, or how Fox "News" could be so successful despite its transparent distortions, or almost anything... high RWA scores explain it.
@VeryEvilPettingZoo I can't remember where, so sadly can't give a source. However I am sure I read somewhere about how right wing people tend to be more fearful and distrusting of others and left wing tend to be less fearful and more trusting. I'm sure there was more to it than that of course.
I think it may have been in one of the chapters of a book called 'The Hair of the Dog: And Other Scientific Surprises' by Karl Sabbagh, but I'm not at home so I can't check
Great! Whenever I have to deal with people who see things in terms of "black & white" I think, OH, NO! Another one of 'em! These people cause SO much trouble. If they mention anything religious, such as Jesus or whatever, I think to myself, "Good thing I'm not carrying a weapon!" My current mother in law comes to mind, now that I think of it. Good thing she's far away & has declared me dead. If I ever meet her again, I promise you a clip you'll never forget, hee hee hee hee!!! Uprated.
@2bsirius Good video. One thing. What happens when someone with an angry mind gets exactly what he wants in a given situation? Does he stop being angry for awhile or continue in this state?
What causes the angry mind? Other than the obvious childhood imprinting, I'd say mainly fear of the unknown, fear of powerlessness, fear of change, and low self-esteem, the lack of confidence in one's self.
How do we deal with and confront the angry mind? I'd say empathy and compassion. Try not to get caught up in their "anger script" worldview.
I have 2 problems with this sentiment. First, there are some values which cannot be compromised. Second, the enemy is not always invented. So how does one distinguish senseless anger from the anger of injustice which fuels necessary social reform?
@missmollygrue Perhaps the 'invented' refers to one having the power to control oneself when faced with an agitator. The difference between action and (over)reaction. Best not to have an emotional approach.
@missmollygrue Yes, it's good to feel that injustices should be rectified...That impulse is problematic though if it results in unchecked aggression and anger. Why? Because very often such anger leads to the conviction that your faction is the only one with truth. Many movements begin with the aim of correcting social injustices but ended in violence and terror because their anger resulted in a refusal to compromise or to be flexible.
The thing is. Gary is such an understanding person. He is really capable of seeing the world through the point of view of his opponents. he goes out of his way to be kind, considerate and compassionate. oh wait...could I be mistaken. Probably not, Gary says so and he is the ultimate source of truth in the universe. Good luck trying to oppose him!
@CosmicConJob If Gary says so, and he is the ultimate source of truth in the universe, we should bow our heads and obey. How dare we criticize him? After all, a man who takes a decision on behalf of every living person on the planet, a man who has decreed that life doesn't have any value, must be a great man!
Such a charming lady... beautifully written…
TheWisemonkey8 3 days ago
Comment removed
TheWisemonkey8 1 month ago
Well you can't ALWAYS compromise.
Since this is likely a video most watched by rationalists I'll give a great example. If you always compromised and took the middle road, you'd advocate 'teaching the controversy'. And I bet no rationalists want THAT.
Fact is, a compromise is only viable when both sides have a point, sometimes one side is just plain WRONG, and even a compromise with them will be destructive. There's times to talk and times to fight, even if you hate fighting, there are.
TheSkunkCat 2 months ago
@TheSkunkCat
Another thing is that sometimes anger, even perpetual anger can be JUSTIFIED.
Perpetual anger against injustice is better then working with the injust, and ignoring their injustices in the name of some nebulous harmony that the injust just laugh at.
There's alot in the world people SHOULD be angry about. Like for example the rich not paying taxes much yet receiving gobs of cash FROM taxes. People should be absolutely LIVID about that. Not friendly and compromising.
TheSkunkCat 2 months ago
@TheSkunkCat
The way I see it compromises are only valid in SOME circumstances. Some people'll run roughshod over you, kick you in the face and laugh at you if you try to make nicey-nice with them. You gotta stand up for something and stand for something. Pick a good goal to fight for. Like good education, or social justice etc. And NOT compromise on that.
TheSkunkCat 2 months ago
One of the best videos in a few weeks... nice one 2B...
TheWisemonkey8 3 months ago
How about this angry mind, with a sense of frustration in an apocalyptic situation?
See this great scene of the film on You-Tube: "God on Trial: The Verdict".
Contextcatcher 3 months ago
There is an irony in that the observers take on the angry mind is one of abolutes, precisely the charge the observer is levelling at the angry mind.
Psychology as it is today, is to a true and as yet unformulated science of the mind, what alchemy is to chemisty.
Sooooo much interpretation, assumption, presumption and so little evidence.
I know people working in the field are doing the best with what tools they have but a little humility about the dubious nature of conclusions would be nice.
TheCelticChimp 3 months ago
@TheCelticChimp I make no claims. I'm simply suggesting that others "think about this". I am not a psychologist, but I've read extensively on the subject. I assume you must be either a practising psychologist or psychiatrist to be claiming that others need not explore this or make up their own minds. The effects of an inflexible personality are damaging. I'm reading "Malignant Self Love: Narcissism Revisited" [Vaknin] & "Without Conscience" [Hare]. I think you are mistaken.
2bsirius 3 months ago
@2bsirius
I apologise if it seemed like I was suggesting you were the one making the claims and being presumptuous, I presumed :) that you were reading someone else's material?
I hold no qualification of any kind in psychology/psychiatry. I have read extensively on the subject. I have studied Carl Rogers, various takes on transactional analysis, gestalt, CBT, character styles by Johnson and other texts and systems.
All of them are guilty of dramatic over simplification....
TheCelticChimp 3 months ago
...there is hope! :)
Thankfully, neuroscientific findings (i.e. hard scientific data) are being more and more considered by the field. It is evolving towards a true science but I don't think it is there yet.
Every psycological theory out there probably contains some truth but the amount of reaching and guessing currently invovled makes it a highly dubious science.
Conceptual systems are dangeous in any field. Necessary to greater of lesser extents but always dangerous.
TheCelticChimp 3 months ago
The GOP in a nutshell.
chrisose 3 months ago
Good vid, I have also noticed how these "minds" depend on being charismatic,attractive and alluring to gather the troops as they say. they often prey on the weak,young and others. they give others comfort via their binary philosophies and simple worldview.....
INVENTTHATTHING 3 months ago
Interesting.
KaraRvn 3 months ago
This video is indeed something to think about. I recognize flickers of myself in the description from time to time (I could probably use some anger management, haha). Good video.
Jaybird196 3 months ago
you should name these videos 'The Gary Files' as you are quite interested in his mind, if you correctly label these videos as they are we as the audience will finally see how important this mind within a mind is to the videos maker, to be so consumed with another individuals mind- as spock would say, "...fascinating"
maynardyorke 3 months ago
@maynardyorke I'm interested in how groups can support this kind of thinking and how it makes it more self-assured as it becomes less willing to see the complexity of the human condition...Gary is one example of that happening on YouTube.
But you think whatever you like.
2bsirius 3 months ago
Add to this the terrible awareness of how dark our times must be, that heroes such as they should meet such (largely imagined and imaginatively large) opposition.
TheCarruths 3 months ago
smile: a(r)mour...
Contextcatcher 3 months ago
Good! Glad to see some of these incoherent troll types have to play somewhere else. I don't always leave comments, but I usually read a fair amount of them anyway. You're doing the right thing.
alaskafido 3 months ago
@alaskafido Thanks
2bsirius 3 months ago
Lol yet another passive aggresive dig at Inmendham
InvincibleNumanist 3 months ago
@InvincibleNumanist I have now blocked you permanently from my channel. But I'm leaving your ridiculous, vindictive, totally wrong comment here. I've put up with 4 years of this kind of stupid abuse.
You can believe any absurd theory of life you like, but you can not bring your inability to reason to a coherent conclusion to my channel page any longer.
Go play your pointless, vicious game somewhere else.
In case that wasn't clear: Leave me the fuck alone.
2bsirius 3 months ago
Comment removed
Contextcatcher 3 months ago
@2bsirius I hope you're aware of the irony in your 'angry' comment on InvincibleNumanist. Some users approach are negative (It seems to fit in an antinatalism tradition). Let them play and don't react back Every kind of reaction is a confirmation for them but they expose themselves in their narrow minded obsessions. Blocking isn't smart: take abusive words courageously, It shows that your serious views count. A thick skin is useful on internet: feel the distance in your own private 'net-shell'.
Contextcatcher 3 months ago
@Contextcatcher With all due respect, you are free to do whatever you like on your channel and I am free to do the same on mine.
2bsirius 3 months ago
@2bsirius I respect your point of view and you're right but... putting a lot of effort in purifying your channel or vid reactions is a waste of energy and in the meanwhile you're losing focus and weaken you're nutshell message. Showing your irritated mind attracts pathological bugs...And blocking is a totalitarian manner. Love the bug by ignoring them they will be bored at the end and leave.
I know my comment has a sting like... a bug.
Contextcatcher 3 months ago
@Contextcatcher No, your comment doesn't sting. I'm just exhausted right now, and I need a break from unrelenting insults...that's all.
2bsirius 3 months ago
@2bsirius Remember classic Greece Goddess Pallas Athene with her powerful aegis ...a shield as a personal (also mental) amour: keeping insulting arrows at a distance. The miscalling tongue shoots broken arrows as an ineffective point of view. Why border.
Contextcatcher 3 months ago
@InvincibleNumanist i agree and I don't even like the guy
jhnwells69 3 months ago
@jhnwells69 Stop this. Either prove what you've said or stop posting to my channel. You are wasting my time.
2bsirius 3 months ago
@InvincibleNumanist exactly what i figured
maynardyorke 3 months ago
you just proved earth is flat.
trilerkiler 3 months ago
@trilerkiler
No, sorry, the only thing for sure is that you are clueless...
2bsirius 3 months ago
@trilerkiler Btw I took a look at your channel page and at your recent comments on other videos...You are free to express your opinions, but if you become abusive, you will be history.
2bsirius 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@2bsirius No, sorry, the only thing for sure is that you are clueless...
trilerkiler 3 months ago
Your fine vid COUNTS and proofed that the feeling of being depressed is a result of becoming powerless and is connected with paranoia: haunting angry the depressing enemy. With the back against the wall the right wing sees evil socialism in EVERY collective approach, the left wing sees in EVERY banker an evil capitalist. But those who fight the evil power become influential themselves and are blind for their own extremism. Rulers melancholic generalization: emotions tend to be totalitarian.
Contextcatcher 3 months ago
Awesome.
debswildhoney 3 months ago
Good video. Excellent insights. To make it better you only need to add that you are describing the pathologically angry mind. Why need not be a psychologist to recognize what is ROUTINELY abnormal.
DanaGarrett 3 months ago
Richard Hofstadter wrote of our culture’s longtime devaluation of the head in favor of the heart and a historic tendency to prefer people and phenomena — educational approaches, types of religious experience — motivated by passion or gut rather than intellect or reason...but was his position in society biasing his position?...regards...
schoolmaster1945 3 months ago
@schoolmaster1945 What is the real point of the comment? It's not clear to me....
Regards back...
2bsirius 3 months ago
This immediately reminded me of something I was reading about recently:
First, I read a survey that blew me away: the more scientific understanding a democrat has, the more likely they are to believe in man made global warming, but more understanding a republican has, the more likely they are to be skeptical. That was so bizarre that I kept hunting for info on such connections, and eventually stumbled on a world of research that's simply astonishing.
Google: high RWA (rightwing authoritarians)
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 months ago
(cont)
Whether trying to understand unnecessary force used by police on peaceful prostesters (ex: Occupy movement), or the rightwing's approval of torture, or how Bush could've been re-elected largely by the argument that "gay marriage will destroy America", or the walking bundles of contradictions that rightwingers manifest, or how Fox "News" could be so successful despite its transparent distortions, or almost anything... high RWA scores explain it.
This "angry mind" is such an example.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 months ago
@VeryEvilPettingZoo I can't remember where, so sadly can't give a source. However I am sure I read somewhere about how right wing people tend to be more fearful and distrusting of others and left wing tend to be less fearful and more trusting. I'm sure there was more to it than that of course.
I think it may have been in one of the chapters of a book called 'The Hair of the Dog: And Other Scientific Surprises' by Karl Sabbagh, but I'm not at home so I can't check
DeeDemonwitch 3 months ago
There seems to be a fundamental connection of sorts......
masluxx 3 months ago
Brilliant.
FinancialSP 3 months ago
Great! Whenever I have to deal with people who see things in terms of "black & white" I think, OH, NO! Another one of 'em! These people cause SO much trouble. If they mention anything religious, such as Jesus or whatever, I think to myself, "Good thing I'm not carrying a weapon!" My current mother in law comes to mind, now that I think of it. Good thing she's far away & has declared me dead. If I ever meet her again, I promise you a clip you'll never forget, hee hee hee hee!!! Uprated.
slobomotion 3 months ago
Yes.
xxxild 3 months ago
What you describe is often attributed to the minds of conservatives... the absolute of their position.
deepashtray 3 months ago
fine video...compromise is essential
fulishproductions 3 months ago
"Hatred is settled anger."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero
lucerfarul 3 months ago
@2bsirius Good video. One thing. What happens when someone with an angry mind gets exactly what he wants in a given situation? Does he stop being angry for awhile or continue in this state?
samm761 3 months ago
@samm761 He dies from shock, at the absurdity, that anyone could have listened to him in the first place.
DonQuixotedeKaw 3 months ago
What causes the angry mind? Other than the obvious childhood imprinting, I'd say mainly fear of the unknown, fear of powerlessness, fear of change, and low self-esteem, the lack of confidence in one's self.
How do we deal with and confront the angry mind? I'd say empathy and compassion. Try not to get caught up in their "anger script" worldview.
StevenErnest 3 months ago
That describes the state of my mind at times...
inspirediam 3 months ago
Comment removed
IdaMiaDot 3 months ago
Well said!
E1GHTY8 3 months ago
I have 2 problems with this sentiment. First, there are some values which cannot be compromised. Second, the enemy is not always invented. So how does one distinguish senseless anger from the anger of injustice which fuels necessary social reform?
missmollygrue 3 months ago
@missmollygrue Perhaps the 'invented' refers to one having the power to control oneself when faced with an agitator. The difference between action and (over)reaction. Best not to have an emotional approach.
2000LegoLuke 3 months ago
@missmollygrue Yes, it's good to feel that injustices should be rectified...That impulse is problematic though if it results in unchecked aggression and anger. Why? Because very often such anger leads to the conviction that your faction is the only one with truth. Many movements begin with the aim of correcting social injustices but ended in violence and terror because their anger resulted in a refusal to compromise or to be flexible.
2bsirius 3 months ago
Nothing to say except 'favorite'.
Barklord 3 months ago
The thing is. Gary is such an understanding person. He is really capable of seeing the world through the point of view of his opponents. he goes out of his way to be kind, considerate and compassionate. oh wait...could I be mistaken. Probably not, Gary says so and he is the ultimate source of truth in the universe. Good luck trying to oppose him!
CosmicConJob 3 months ago
@CosmicConJob If Gary says so, and he is the ultimate source of truth in the universe, we should bow our heads and obey. How dare we criticize him? After all, a man who takes a decision on behalf of every living person on the planet, a man who has decreed that life doesn't have any value, must be a great man!
dewinthemorning 3 months ago
Are you sure you can attribute fearful, paranoid perceptions and reactions with angry motives?
zarkoff45 3 months ago
that was good ,your own work ?
sausage4mash 3 months ago
@sausage4mash ah, It is an adaptation of the Herbert Spencer Lecture he gave at Oxford University. I asked Google he knows everything
sausage4mash 3 months ago
@sausage4mash, the big G knows all.
MensRifleAssociation 3 months ago
2B, you are an oasis of sense, rationality and compassion in a sea of virtual lunacy...
LONG LIVE 2B!!!
TheWisemonkey8 3 months ago
smart:)
katrastrophy 3 months ago
Do you mean THE angry mind or the collective, angry mind? Interesting description disregarding the chaos of collective variations.
heartmindspace 3 months ago
Your voice is sooooo hawt.
Drgamedood 3 months ago
Hmmmm... who does this sound like?
AncientAtheist 3 months ago
I dont know why you turned the ratings off, I mean I can guess but isnt that the point being expressed?
urquiza78 3 months ago