3 of 3: Tried going to Church today... its harder than you think

[88momart]

I feel like I've been to church. No, actually, this was so much better, than any "church" around here. Thank you.

[BassicallyChristian]

Love this right here man. Straight up teaching with no yelling or screaming. Just simple truth. I pray brother that the Lord keeps you humble, blameless, and free from error so that those who come against you shall be put to shame for scorning the word of Christ.

[anthony7759]

whats up brother ! GODBLESS Ikeep up the good work!

[Brother563]

FLEE BABYLON!!!

[NorWes01]

I thought about your M-16 some more. I usually consider it as a weapon of war, of death. Swords, as I've known them, seem more like symbols and wall pieces.. but they are weapons just like the M-16. Now I reconsider what sword means, and how it's used in the Bible. I just thought of this verse.. "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34. I have a general, vague understanding of this verse.. but it seems different

[NorWes01]

.. now that I understand swords more. I'm seeing that I want more of His sword, His Word in my life! Specifically to cut away the: world, flesh, and sin in my life! Well, thanks again for the vids and sharing! Another verse.. Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. 2 Tim 4:2. There's a lot here. I'm looking at the "correct, rebuke, and encourage." Also, "with great patience and careful..

[NorWes01]

instruction." Now it's good to have balance with this, and in all things. I especially see a balance in apostle Paul's letters, a specific balance with "correct, rebuke, and encourage." On a personal note, when all I hear is love and grace, and that's it, there's something inside that senses a misfire. This probably has something to do with not preaching the Gospel in it's fullness. Keep preaching His Word and in it's fullness brother! Here's another thought. It's good to "remain in the..

[NorWes01]

Is that a M-16 of the Spirit?  ;)

[AVIVAH4EVER]

Thank You JESUS for this teaching, i need to repent , i do not go to a church , find it hard...feeling so tired and worn out, but also willing to give all my sorrow and pain!! Thank you brother and stay blessed by blessing others. God watch over yoy and your family!! Greetz from Friesland!!

[2tires]

I haven't finished reading "Pagan Christianity" by Viola and Barnum. It goes into church history and how the people who are talked of in scripture conducted their fellowship meetings. It is hard to go to church. This book seems to have some answers as to why the "churchs" are so messed up and why it is so hard to go to church. It seems alot of what goes on in church is not biblical but have pagan roots. I thought it was just Christmas and Easter that was pagan. Guess I thought wrong.

[Lacybunny]

I'll be praying for you and your family Steve. Great series. God bless u.

[BroPaul]

"In the New Testament Jesus Christ is Saviour long before He is Pattern. To-day He is being despatched as the Figurehead of a Religion, a mere Example. His is that, but He is infinitely more; He is salvation itself, He is the Gospel of God." -- 11/29 - My Utmost For His Highest -- Oswald Chambers

[ASeedSower234]

All these things you mention take the love of God at work in our hearts, for God first and then for our neighbor.

The saints will be known by the fruit of the spirit made manifest in their lives, and the love they have for the brethren.

If we love God we will keep His commandments that are written on our hearts. It will be our desire to please God if we love HIM.

Thank you for sharing what many of us think.

[baltimark]

Watched all 3. My advice is never to seek comfort. Christ is in growth. The only reason to reject a church is that YOU can't be of service to IT. All Bible scholars disagree with one another. Ask God for guidance in prayer. Then humbly do what He says. My former church turned into a cult. I didn't leave until God told me to leave. My present church does't suit me. I tell God that I'm uncomfortable. He says stay. I'm learning humility. Jesus didn't come to empower the arrogant and judgmental.

[MelodyOfVision]

@baltimark - God deals with every person differently.

God says to you, "Stay in this church" while He may say to someone else, "Come out of that church" or "That's not the church I want you to go to." You can't presume a person ISN'T seeking guidance in prayer and not humbly doing what the Lord says just because that person isn't doing the same thing as you.

Yes, keep learning humility as we all are. Your comment certainly wasn't empowered.

[baltimark]

What I'm presuming is that hyper-critical fundamentalists are thinking for themselves. The institution of Christianity must be all about pleasing them. They are connoisseurs of doctrine. They wish to make this a boutique religion. God is in no church of which they don't approve. Meanwhile the world is in need of much ministering. But they would hinder others in getting on with that work. We must stop and please them first. And in fact they're impossible to please. Their rebukes are gratuitous.

[MelodyOfVision]

@baltimark - you don't know the heart of of everyone. Aren't you being a hyper-critical fundamentalist too? Every Christian is an individual and God deals with each according to His will and to their needs. I respect that you want to stay in church because that is what God is telling you. But I also respect hetgow for choosing not to because because God is telling him that the church he visited is dead and doesn't want him there. It is about respecting God's direction for each individual.

[baltimark]

I'm not so much accusing Hetgow as warning him. He can take my warning to heart if it's accurate. One can be so intent on spiting his enemies that he misreads the Bible and almost denies the possibility of knowing Christ. One can be more concerned about spiting his enemies than getting on with the work of ministering to a miserable world. Some persons find in Christianity just another way to be wrong-headed. They aren't helping. God is not their fool. And they need to grow up and get real.

[MelodyOfVision]

@baltimark - I think you're reading too much "meanness" into Hetgow's intent. Now he's being spiteful against imaginary enemies? Remember, you're the one who came up with that - no one else. That emerged from the well-spring of your own heart.

I thought you said you watched the whole series. If you review this third part, you'll see that Hetgow says that if you're in a godly church, to thank the leadership for being faithful to God and His truth. No spite toward imaginary enemies there.

[baltimark]

I like Hetgow. I think he's real. I like Xavier and think he's real. But both of them would join in condemning me. And then they'd condemn each other. And then they'd condemn you on some small point of disagreement. Meanwhile neither man is a little girl. So I'll speak to them dead straight and rough. But fairly. No trying to fool one another. No protecting of any precious feelings. Error is a serious matter. But let's hash it out quickly and then get back to our ministerial work in the world.

[MelodyOfVision]

@baltimark - Xavier's error is blatant, and he's unrepentant. But what is Hetgow's error? Hetgow was right to expose Xavier's false prophecies - there are too many naive Christians out there that will believe anything without testing the spirits and he was merely obeying God in warning them to steer clear of Xavier.

Many churches nowadays are dead and apostate and Hetgow is just letting us know how they hold up against the standards that God has set in the Bible. So where is his error?

[baltimark]

No church is 100% dead or alive. I listen to Xavier's sermons on his website. They're impressive. And his recovery from this failure is beginning to impress me. I still disagree with him on some points. But I pray that he steers clear of further trouble and that his ministry is a success. My problem with Hetgow is that he's making a YouTube career out of whining about other Christians rather than getting on with his own ministerial life. And now I'm almost gettng drawn into the same mistake!

[MelodyOfVision]

Oh, I get it! Now I know where you're coming from. I didn't understand why you didn't like Hetgow. You're one of Xavier's sycophants!

Seriously - if you think Xavier's sermons and his "recovery" are impressive then I guess you like being lied to. That is to the detriment of your own soul. Hetgow *does* have a ministry for God. It's right here on YouTube warning people away from false teachers and prophets and dead churches.

[baltimark]

No. You don't get it. I found out about Xavier only a month ago. And he'd condemn me for being Catholic. But all of us social conservatives must find common ministerial ground. And then we must get on with our work in this miserable world. I would like for Hetgow to post video reports of his latest ministerial efforts. And then we can share with one another our ministerial anecdotes and observations like the natural allies in Christ that we really are. This would be a productive change of pace.

[MelodyOfVision]

But this channel *is* his ministry and it's evident for all to see. A lot of his viewers have taken to heart what his videos have to say and they're being blessed by them. No need to post a video report.

Plus you should flee from the Catholic church - sorry, it's not of Jesus Christ! Pray directly to the Lord and study the Bible prayerful that the Holy Spirit give you insight and understanding and you will see that the Catholic doctrine doesn't line up with Christ.

[baltimark]

Thank you for your concern. But all denominations are failing. And they're failing through a lack of focus on ministerial realities. They're retreating into legalistic matters that border on the occult. I see this in Hetgow. I see it in my Archbishop. But both are good men. I was a Pentecostal before returning to the Church in which I was baptized. Catholic spirituality is weak but real. This walk isn't about doctrine. Salvation isn't through literary analysis. I feel sorry for our loving God.

[MelodyOfVision]

*Chuckle* Now Hetgow is bordering on the occult! How so (and please, really address this)? Btw, doctrine *is* important because believing the wrong ones which lead to influencing how you live can damn you.

[baltimark]

Focus on Christ's Love, and your behavior automatically conforms to His Will. You flow with His Goodness. Focus on modifying your behavior through willpower, and you become a grim moralist. Then you argue endlessly with other moralists in regard to fine points of style. That said, to think that one can yank God's chain by behaving in a certain way is an occult attitude. To search the Bible for ways to yank God's chain is an occult approach. But this mindset is so common as to be ineradicable.

[MelodyOfVision]

I see that I've struck a nerve and you've turned your accusatory finger at me - that's good - at least it's off Hetgow. Now we can really talk.

I notice that you talk in generalities, but I want to really get inside your mind and I want to know exactly what you believe. Because to be honest from what I've read of your comments so far, you appear just a church-goer and not a genuine Christian. You said you were catholic, became pentacostal, and then catholic again. So what do you believe?

[baltimark]

A 500 character limit forces one to be general. And what we're talking about is basic anyhow. I apologize if you felt personally indicted. My target is the Church as a whole. I believe what God wants me to believe. I returned to this religion completely broken down and open to His Will. I hear Him now tell me to listen, and I do. I want to reach others like me. My faith was destroyed by fundamentalists. I want to connect others with the Joy and Love of God. Then they can grow happy in His Will.

[MelodyOfVision]

I don't really feel indicted - I was just happy you weren't attacking anyone else. But still, it's odd that you can't be specific about what you believe. Do you believe in praying to Mary and to saints? Do you believe in the eucharist? That's what catholics believe.

I've been disenchanted with denominations myself so I know how you feel. Still, it's very important that we line up our lives with what God says in the Bible - nothing more, nothing less - and we can do so by the Holy Spirit.

[baltimark]

Beautiful reply. I feel much better for you now. My heart breaks for the many suffering people who are turned off by Christianity. The goodness and beauty of this religion are not being presented to them first and foremost. What they see instead is a hellish mass of bickering moralists. I do what God tells me. To my sweet surprise He instigated my relationship with Mary and directs its growth. He instigated as well a deep daily hunger for the Eucharist. My thinking otherwise remains Pentecostal.

[MelodyOfVision]

Are you *sure* that was God instigating your relationship with Mary? This is why the Bible says to check the spirits. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that you should pray to Mary or even *have* a relationship with her. That god who instigated your relationship with Mary is not God, but a demon. Nor does your communion wafer and wine become Jesus' body and blood. *Please* prayerfully study the Bible with an open heart, eyes and ears to the Holy Spirit. Mixing religions doesn't help either.

[baltimark]

Thanks again for your concern. I watched my former pastor lose her mind, asking herself such paranoid questions. Focus on God's love and your mind and conscience remain clear. I don't worship Mary. One can only willfully misunderstand the simple difference between veneration and worship. The impulse to slander makes one pleased not to understand. I would like for the leading fundamentalists to develop for me a program of beliefs in which all of them agree. They can't do it. So I listen to God.

[MelodyOfVision]

1/2

Still, why would you want to be in a religion that doesn't stay true to Jesus Christ? We are to worship God alone.

Col 2:9-10

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

So neither Mary nor any of the other saints merit any veneration.

Forget the fundamentalists. Tend to your own soul. I doubt you are listening to God if you are believe all these extrabiblical teachings.

[MelodyOfVision]

2/2

Also consider Col 2:18-19

18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews grows as God causes it to grow.

All you talk are about are platitudes so far, but none of it stands up to the Bible.

[baltimark]

Knowing the Church from the inside, I can tell you that Catholics venerate the saints out of humility toward Christ. In their sin, they don't feel worthy to approach Him. So they humbly ask for intercession from souls whom they venerate for being much closer to Him. I don't altogether think this way. But I understand the logic of such humble devotion. Love for God justifies and sanctifies these actions, whether or not they're in error. God is good. God is touched. He's not a hard-hearted lawyer.

[MelodyOfVision]

Venerating saints out of humility toward Christ IS false humility. You must humbly come to Christ yourself, that's what the Bible says to do because He alone is our intermediary between us and the Father. Your basing your beliefs on things made up by man:

Col 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

Recall Col 2:18 - You're very puffy, baltimark! Very puffy!

[baltimark]

I'm trying to out-dance the devil. That's what I'm doing. Christ was beset by lawyers. One finds in the Bible whatever one is looking for. If your heart is hard, then you'll find justification for your spite. Meanwhile, God isn't fooled. Lawyers don't impress him. They always devilishly skip over the primary and essential message. God's heart is no more open than yours? The irony is that fundamentalists hardly know what the fundamentals are. Someday God will move your heart to refute yourself.

[MelodyOfVision]

It's so weird that you don't cite any Bible verses. And you don't even talk about the Holy Spirit. You talk about Mary and the saints and pray to them, but you don't talk about the Holy Spirit and you don't pray directly to God! Will you please talk about these topics?

This is just sad. You are the perfect poster boy for a church-goer and the perfect example of why Christians should avoid dead churches.

I will pray for you - honestly, I'm not being sarcastic. How could you be so blind?

[baltimark]

Holy Ghost inspiration has been my entire subtext. And of course I pray directly to God. I just understand the humility that motivates other Catholics to seek intercession. Jesus is in every believer, working a process. And I respect that process, His work. I'll not condemn for petty reasons a person in whom Jesus is working. And I won't get into a verse battle with someone who approaches the Bible in a self-serving way. Read Mt. 22:36. Contemplate it exclusively. Then read the rest of the Book.

[MelodyOfVision]

But if a person truly wants to seek God's forgiveness, shouldn't they obtain it the way God says He wants them to as written in Scripture? If they truly want to follow Him? Praying to saints doesn't grant them forgiveness of their sins - it's only through Jesus. "Respecting" them just shows cowardice because you're not brave enough to tell them the truth. If you really do love Catholics - you'd tell them. And why should I follow your method of Bible study? I'd rather follow the Holy Spirit.

[baltimark]

How does He say to obtain forgiveness? He says to Love. Why can't you bear down on this fundamental fact? Do so, and you forgive others. I forgive Catholics for being confused. I forgive Xavier for making a fool of himself. I forgive Hetgow for not focusing on ministerial effectiveness. I'll add my voice to the voice of Jesus in fellow Christians only when Jesus tells me to. I ask Him all the time what I should think about so-and-so. Usually He reminds me: Just Love. He has everything covered.

[MelodyOfVision]

No, to love God and others as ourselves are commands that Christians are to obey - it's not a means to obtain forgiveness. That's Christianity 101. It's so basic!

You're just talking out of the side of your mouth. And like I said before, if you really care about Catholics, you would tell them truth - but now I see, that you even don't know it.

Please humble yourself before Him and ask Him to help you understand Him and His scripture. There is more to following God than just love.

[baltimark]

Read Mt. 22:36 over and over. Pray about it. Respect this verse above all others. It puts all others in proper context. It's the word of Jesus Himself on the absolutely most important matter. You're reading the Bible with your own mind until you respect this fundamental teaching. And the implications here are astounding. This verse leaves lawyers with nothing to say. Jesus is allowing for no petty gripes in this awesome religion. This verse chases the devil out of our minds. Thank you, Jesus!

[MelodyOfVision]

Why should I listen to you? You don't even obey God on what He says in the Bible. I bet you that's the only verse you know!

[baltimark]

Betting is a sin.

The fact is that no one, not even another fundamentalist, is fit to disagree with a fundamentalist. They approach the Bible with spite in their hearts. The result is a strange inability to produce a coherent doctrine. Churches meanwhile are mere doctrine clubs! Go to church hungry for God's love. Leave hungry. The world's a hellhole exactly because lawyered-up churches are ministerially ineffective. God is no fool for those who search the Bible so to re-inforce their spite.

[MelodyOfVision]

What? You can't recognize a rhetorical statement when you see one?

Let's continue picking your brain. Why did you become a pentecostal in the first place?

[baltimark]

It wasn't my decision. I felt told to go to a certain church. I walked in and found myself the only white person there. The pastor had just prophesied that a white person would appear. So I walked into quite an uproar! The first year and a half was beautiful. But then my pastor lost her mind. And I hung on until God told me to leave. Then to my great surprise He told me to return to the Church of my early youth. ( I was born Catholic, but lost my faith in a loveless fundamentalist high school. )

[MelodyOfVision]

Oh, okay. I understand you better. You "felt told" to go to a certain church? The devil will try to deceive you by circumstances and "inner feelings" if you're not close to the Lord. That's why you have to live a life of prayer - remain in constant state of prayer to Jesus as you go about your day - and when you study the Bible.

How was the first year and a half beautiful?

Yeah, I accept that prophecies still exist, but nowadays we have to be super careful - just look at that nutty pastor.

[baltimark]

O I feel plenty close. The wonder is that you feel close and are still a lawyer. But Xavier and Hetgow are lawyers also. And although they'd doubt each other's closeness to God, I don't. Jesus is working a process in everyone. We judge too quickly and too hard. That first year and a half was dominated by the Holy Ghost. The church was full of Love. Strangers would walk in and immediately burst into tears. Our pastor was losing control of that place to JESUS. So she wrested control away from Him.

[MelodyOfVision]

Bursting into tears. That's all just emotion. Our relationship with God is more than emotion and "feelings". What exactly did they teach you there?

I'm asking because it doesn't seem like you know a lot or are mature in Christ - ie. you're very defensive and call everyone a lawyer who doesn't agree with you, then you go into this humanistic monologues. Plus there's only one verse you seem to know....

[baltimark]

I can't believe how you can slander the Holy Ghost like that. My former church was a place of miracles, for the time that our pastor allowed it to be. This is not the first time I've debated a fundamentalist. Just as often I debate secularists and socialists. A peculiar trait of the debating style of fundamentalists is this luring and tempting to divulge more detailed information, in search of some imaginary GOTCHA moment. In our exchanges, I've already given you plenty of stuff to think about.

[hetgow]

A career? I dont get paid for any of this.

This is a SMALL part of my life - most of which is spent teaching, encouraging, raising a family, being the spiritual head of the house, etc, etc, etc.

Your misinformed & I hope you take the time to think about the wrong conclusions you have come to.

As for putting me in the same boat as Xavier that will not do. He is clearly listening to a false and deceptive spirit, whereas I am merely pointing out scripture that shows the lies & deception.

;)

[baltimark]

What you're doing on YouTube is a good idea and worthwhile hobby. I'll even go so far as to admit that your topics might be God-inspired. But just as with Xavier's failed prophecy, one never knows what God is up to. All of our heads are very hard. I think your videos could be more ministerially productive. Team up with some fundamentalist whom you respect. Try to develop a complete program of beliefs with him. What will the impossibility of this project tell you about the importance of doctrine?

[Wivanunu]

Yep, it's all about Jesus Christ!

No man can discover God for themselves...God will reveal Himself to them.

Spiritually dead men cannot initiate anything with God.

[Wivanunu]

After being "church jumpers" for quite a while I went to a new church today and I wanted to jump up and yell AMEN during the sermon! I was amazed and shocked and I pray that it stays true and follows the word!!! :-)

[Lacybunny]

I cannot stand dead churches. If I can't yell Amen, Hallelujah, Praise the Lord, Preach it Brother then it is not a church for me. My pastor preaches by the Book whether you want to hear or not. Last Sunday was a great sermon about Self Control against sin, etc..... We record all the sermons on CDs. Maybe I'll try to post part of one.

[Cicero75BC]

Total submission to Jesus Christ. We are told not to forsake the gathering as you pointed out. Have you thought about stting up a home study with those you can find who are willing? I have a good friend and we discuss these same things constantly. We meet at starbucks or at our homes once or twice a week. I do attend a church also but I think it's lacking just as you. The important thing is constantly seek guidance of the Holy Spirit regaurding this topic. Many lukewarms in most churches.

[seekerofgod7777777]

No Church for Me, just the Sabbath and the teachings of the Best Best Bible Teachers Ive been Blessed to find on the Internet and youtube. Dave Hunt is my favorite, Chuck Missler has the strongest mind in Christendom.

On the radio Alistair Begg sermons are just indescribable.

There are great Teachers, but their greatness pales in comparison to Hearing the Word Itself.

Hetgow's soft spoken words are a great comfort in these trying times.

[asuzette]

John MacArthur is the best and soundest teacher /preacher.Chuck is very unsound when it comes to his nephilim teachings.

[seekerofgod7777777]

I am a great admirer of John's ministry, have his Bible for reference etc, but prefer Dave Hunt ultimately. Dave writes extensively on the dangers of Calvinism and names Johns teachings in particular as Calvinistic.

Its an ongoing story, to find a man, church or theology that I initially respect, only to be disappointed by its man made doctrines, and traditions of men, with only Dave Hunt and his Berean Call ministry who rarely if ever strays from The Word of the Bible itself for reference.

[snowboyben1978]

Steve,

I'm feeling kinda heavy now. I'm in a similar situation myself. Yet I hold on to God's word. We are not alone! I pray for you and your family. It would be much better if you found some faithful brother and sisters to fellowship with on a regular basis. Much love to you and yours in Christ.

[hetgow]

I know how you feel and its hard at times cause it seems that very few are seeking God. I will pray for you too. Remember God said He would send a shepherd to rescue His sheep and that shepherd is Jesus Christ.

God bless bro

:)

[cyberphant0m]

Great series of videos. In response to the second one in particular, we need to admonish our brothers and sisters in the Lord when they do not obey the Law. As Paul wrote in his second epistle to the Thessalonians, "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." (Ch 3, Verses 14 & 15)

We need to correct each other when we note transgressions, and help each other

[Patternpop]

@cyberphant0m

Amen.