These tests on Youtube are all so very subjective. It's impossible to judge RED/Alexa performance from a few megabytes of highly compressed video, the artefacting is diabolical.
Grading is another issue: What grading was applied? Topping out at +- 2GB a minute and 12bits per channel, RED RAW files have a grading latitude that make the Alexa's PRORES 4444 latitude look puny by comparison. You can pull and push REDCODE phenomenally in the grade if your base exposure is good.
Somebody made a comment about contrast of the RED footage. Well, the answer to that essentially is how much contrast do you want (or not want)... you can dial it in/out in post in REDCINEX .
I think one of the mistakes that are often made is people look at RED footage straight off the sensor and say "that's too flat, low contrast, washed out etc." but need to realise that this is a format that emulates the latitude of film and gives you all of films flexibility in post.
From what I have heard about Alexa, it is more critical to get your lighting and base grade "look" right on acquisition, because there is not as much latitude and colour bit depth in the files for post.
I think you really need to experience firsthand just how much latitude there is in REDCODE files and how much room you have to manoeuvre in the grade.
Yes, the RED RAW footage is "flat" to a certain extent, but this is a major advantage in post and certainly not a drawback in any way.
@witblitsfilm Actually it's the other way around. We use both systems and find Alexa much more flexible then R3D. Plus post workflows are much more streamlined with Alexa footage.
Interesting response. Without being too critical, I am wondering about the take up in usage of the Alexa. As you probably know, the RED One has been used to shoot a large number of major movies recently (District 9, Book of Eli, Social Network, Lincoln Lawyer, Pirate of the Caribbean 4 etc.). And the new EPIC is of course being used for the Hobbit.
I am interested to know what Alexa has been used on so I can judge the image from those. Can you point me in the right direction?
@witblitsfilm I was not criticising one system over the other I was stating my observations based on hands-on and colorists opinions (this is dailies and post work). We use both formats extensively and sometimes certain preferences start to develop just on a practical/pragmatic base. I am waiting to take a look at EPIC material and compare it to other data-capture formats and 35mm.
No, I understand you weren't criticising, I just hadn't seen Alexa footage yet and was really interested if you could point me to some examples that are out on general release. Although someone has in the last few days: Apparently "Anonymous", the Shakespeare movie, was shot on Alexa.
I visited a set the other day where Alexa was being used to shoot "The Other Child", a German TV Production, although it will be quite a while in the post pipeline before we get to see it
They look about the same. Except for the content near the ceiling. Not quite a fair test as the candle goes further behind the subject on the right example that completely blacks out the face, since there's no light source there. The left one doesn't go as far behind the face and keeps it almost fully lit.
Example, evr since the guys @ red changed their colour science proxy files do not open with the correct colour profile assigned, this causes extra work to be done to get them to look normal again.. Not difficult, just unnecessary!
In my own opinion, it is entirely possible to achieve the same kind of results with these two cameras. It just depends on the nature of your project... Some location shoots can be a nightmare with the RED, not to mention the fact that everything red related is a bit off-standard. As an imaging technician I prefer the Alexa because of how I interact with the camera. SxS is also a much more reliable and faster medium than CF. Not to mention the ease of use of the ProRes files once downloaded.
Just for interest When compared to a Arri 435 16:9 (1.78) groundglass, the Red resolves inside the same effective area as the TV safe margins inside the 435 groundlass, where the Alexa sees the full 16:9 Area of the groundglass. So this means the chip of the red is definitely slightly smaller. And will effectively lengthen your lens size slightly. This smaller sensor is used to scan at 4K. The Alexa Scans @ +- 2.5 K and downscales to full HD.
I'm confused/curious. Red clearly has less contrast (blacks are not black), but appears to have a stop more latitude from face to background. The compression artifacts are so bad that it's hard to gauge my real interest which is which has less noise in the blacks overall. Can you explain more?
This is like comparing RED to Canon 5D. Show me the graded outputs, not this crap.
ssuuppeerrbbooyy 4 months ago 4
Okay, I'm not knocking the Alexa, but seriously, the least you could have done is white and black balanced the RED footage...
Cakeman545 9 months ago
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Film, still better and you do not have to change your equipment every 3 to 4 years. This is BS
guydanieli 9 months ago
This is a bad and unfair test, the red footage is not graded.
lonniegallam 9 months ago
These tests on Youtube are all so very subjective. It's impossible to judge RED/Alexa performance from a few megabytes of highly compressed video, the artefacting is diabolical.
Grading is another issue: What grading was applied? Topping out at +- 2GB a minute and 12bits per channel, RED RAW files have a grading latitude that make the Alexa's PRORES 4444 latitude look puny by comparison. You can pull and push REDCODE phenomenally in the grade if your base exposure is good.
witblitsfilm 11 months ago
Somebody made a comment about contrast of the RED footage. Well, the answer to that essentially is how much contrast do you want (or not want)... you can dial it in/out in post in REDCINEX .
I think one of the mistakes that are often made is people look at RED footage straight off the sensor and say "that's too flat, low contrast, washed out etc." but need to realise that this is a format that emulates the latitude of film and gives you all of films flexibility in post.
witblitsfilm 11 months ago
3
From what I have heard about Alexa, it is more critical to get your lighting and base grade "look" right on acquisition, because there is not as much latitude and colour bit depth in the files for post.
I think you really need to experience firsthand just how much latitude there is in REDCODE files and how much room you have to manoeuvre in the grade.
Yes, the RED RAW footage is "flat" to a certain extent, but this is a major advantage in post and certainly not a drawback in any way.
witblitsfilm 11 months ago
@witblitsfilm Actually it's the other way around. We use both systems and find Alexa much more flexible then R3D. Plus post workflows are much more streamlined with Alexa footage.
This is just from my observations.
diginando 9 months ago
@diginando
Interesting response. Without being too critical, I am wondering about the take up in usage of the Alexa. As you probably know, the RED One has been used to shoot a large number of major movies recently (District 9, Book of Eli, Social Network, Lincoln Lawyer, Pirate of the Caribbean 4 etc.). And the new EPIC is of course being used for the Hobbit.
I am interested to know what Alexa has been used on so I can judge the image from those. Can you point me in the right direction?
witblitsfilm 9 months ago
@witblitsfilm I was not criticising one system over the other I was stating my observations based on hands-on and colorists opinions (this is dailies and post work). We use both formats extensively and sometimes certain preferences start to develop just on a practical/pragmatic base. I am waiting to take a look at EPIC material and compare it to other data-capture formats and 35mm.
diginando 9 months ago
@diginando
No, I understand you weren't criticising, I just hadn't seen Alexa footage yet and was really interested if you could point me to some examples that are out on general release. Although someone has in the last few days: Apparently "Anonymous", the Shakespeare movie, was shot on Alexa.
I visited a set the other day where Alexa was being used to shoot "The Other Child", a German TV Production, although it will be quite a while in the post pipeline before we get to see it
witblitsfilm 9 months ago
They look about the same. Except for the content near the ceiling. Not quite a fair test as the candle goes further behind the subject on the right example that completely blacks out the face, since there's no light source there. The left one doesn't go as far behind the face and keeps it almost fully lit.
wwwShadow7 11 months ago
Example, evr since the guys @ red changed their colour science proxy files do not open with the correct colour profile assigned, this causes extra work to be done to get them to look normal again.. Not difficult, just unnecessary!
antilogic32 1 year ago
In my own opinion, it is entirely possible to achieve the same kind of results with these two cameras. It just depends on the nature of your project... Some location shoots can be a nightmare with the RED, not to mention the fact that everything red related is a bit off-standard. As an imaging technician I prefer the Alexa because of how I interact with the camera. SxS is also a much more reliable and faster medium than CF. Not to mention the ease of use of the ProRes files once downloaded.
antilogic32 1 year ago
Just for interest When compared to a Arri 435 16:9 (1.78) groundglass, the Red resolves inside the same effective area as the TV safe margins inside the 435 groundlass, where the Alexa sees the full 16:9 Area of the groundglass. So this means the chip of the red is definitely slightly smaller. And will effectively lengthen your lens size slightly. This smaller sensor is used to scan at 4K. The Alexa Scans @ +- 2.5 K and downscales to full HD.
antilogic32 1 year ago
I'm confused/curious. Red clearly has less contrast (blacks are not black), but appears to have a stop more latitude from face to background. The compression artifacts are so bad that it's hard to gauge my real interest which is which has less noise in the blacks overall. Can you explain more?
PiraSasov 1 year ago
Do you think that RED One M-X looks more sensitive then Alexa?
theSVARTfilm 1 year ago