@9Ratsel9 This essay would have been a very rich source of information if the practice of swordsmanship had gone extinct and thus this literature being the only source to go by. But we routinely see Iiado practitioners block with the edge, thus making this piece of literature questionable. At least to Katanas.
Let's try something practical. For the sake of experimentation, Buy two good quality carbon-steel swords and practise these edge blocks and parries on them. After all, if those Iaido practitioners do it then there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Right? Besides, any idiot can wield a sword without training. It's all common sense. Right?
@9Ratsel9 There is nothing wrong with blocking with the edge. You made the opinion that blocking with the edge was incorrect. Iaido practitioners and experts however do block with the edge. You can continue to claim its wrong to do so. But Katans are blocked with the edge.
Remember. This is an experiment. Those two should be of good quality and you're not going to keep them. You're just testing a theory. What about edge damage? Like you said there are services that deal with it. And even if you cannot repair them (which is very likely) they are not swords for your collection so you needn't worry.
@9Ratsel9 A sword is a tool, its meant to be used. Its not the last sword that is going to be produced. A sword can be repaired or another one produced. Blocking with the edge can save a life, a sword can always be replaced.
In response to the "fallacy argument" post. There are things that occur frequently.
1. The technique is valid, but because of the lighting, camera angle, speed, etc. the flat parry or counter-strike to the flat LOOKS like an edge block. Afterall, the bokken is only turned that much to align the flat facing upwards.
2. The technique is invalid. Because there are people with little or no training and understanding of the art to know what works and what doesn't.
@9Ratsel9 I couldnt find that video. But I did find a video about the Katana vs longsword. But none of this is relevant to the discussion. Whats relevant is whether or not you could block with the edge. And the answer is you can. And of course I would block with the edge if I was forced to block. The edge is the part of my blade that would naturally meet my opponent's blade, when encountering an overhead cut.
@9Ratsel9 Its not relevant because its an isolated test that has no relation to this discussion. The discussion was whether or not blades could be blocked with the edge. Some styles may argue against it. But Katanas are routinely blocked with the edge.
@9Ratsel9 Sure thing. Ive smacked katanas against two by fours and steel chairs. Another blade is the last thing Im afraid of when conducting destruction tests.
@9Ratsel9 Yea. Most edge damage is cosmetic. They still remain dangerously sharp. But if you were to try to resell the blade, its value would drop considerably because the buyer would expect a flawless blade. But edge damage doesnt prevent a sword from cutting. Blades that have their tips rolled over, are still able to thrust through targets. And blades with edge damage are still very dangerous.
2. You have absolutely NO martial art training to speak of where swords are concerned, yet you speak as though you know how to fight with one.
3. Your knowledge stems from Youtube videos, your own logic, and test cutting your own swords (the results of which I cannot verify), and still nothing from any martial experience.
@9Ratsel9 You are attacking my credibility which has no relevance to this issue. The issue is whether or not it is correct to block with the edge of the sword. And the answer is that it is correct to block with the edge of the sword. Iaido experts routinely block with the sword. I simply delivered that message to you. Blocking with the edge, especially with a katana is undeniable.
Even if the experts of the art do so, YOU must first TRAIN in it before you can tell me ANYTHING about it. You have very little credibility because YOU...HAVE...NO...EXPERIENCE.
@9Ratsel9 My experience is irrelevant to this issue. I am giving you first hand visual evidence of Iaido experts blocking with the edge of their swords. Attacking my credibility no way changes the fact that the edges of katanas are used to block their opponent's blades.
YOU spoke as though YOU know how to handle a sword. YOU spoke of wrist alignment. YOU said blocking with the edge was the only way YOU could think of to stop a strike. Having said all that, you can't blame me for assuming that you've at least learnt a martial art involving a sword. But since you haven't, anything regarding what YOU think is now moot.
@9Ratsel9 Because all of those things are reasonable. If you were to block an overhead cut with the flatside or the backside of your blade. It would include unnecessary movements. In addition, your wrists wouldnt be locked in to stop the cut. But even if you disregarded everything I said. It doesnt change the fact that Iaido experts block with the edge of their swords.
Go learn the damn art! Excuse me. Please go learn the damn art!
Now. Regarding your visual evidence, I have seen instructors break down techniques into individual movements to facilitate teaching. Therefore, viewing any movement by itself can and will lead to misconceptions.
@9Ratsel9 There is no misconception about blocking the sword with its edge. Because it is clearly done. One does not need to be a Buddhist or worship at a Buddhist temple to know that Buddhists practice Buddhism, the same way people who are experts with swords block with the edges of their swords.
Students who do not understand the art sometimes try to teach what they've seen but do not understand. This pattern has been repeating itself for centuries. Now more than ever because we no longer NEED swords to fight.
Sometimes 80 percent of the technique is correct but the last twenty isn't.
Youtube allows ANY Tom, Dick, Harry, Mary, Jane, and Sally to post videos of martial art techniques. Combined with poor film quality, poor lighting, the forementioned lack of understanding, and/or lack of context you end up with a video of an incorrect technique that can look authentic.
You should never learn a martial art entirely from a book or video. That is why I cannot stress enough why you should first and last LEARN...THE...DAMN...ART. There are elements in them that we cannot see unless we DO it.
Longsword, Katana, Dao. Whatever sword is used, if you do not understand the nature of the weapon and the nature of combat your 'realistic' movie sword fights will always be bollocks.
@9Ratsel9 did u see the katana fight at the end of the movie? damm. he mixed kendo with wushu and it got so natural, so clean, so efficient and deadly. they japanese and the fight director were really great!
@9Ratsel9 yeah i rewatched the fight 4 times and i must say i was wrong bcz thats not the way to use a katana, he was hammering in agaons the iron pole like a sword/axe. wushu was the part of the free movement bcz in kendo his posture would be lower.
To punch, one must move. To kick, one must move. To cut, one must move. To evade,one m....well, it goes without saying. To counter-attack, one must move. To counter-strike, one must move.
When one FIRST moves to safety only then will one know how to place one's blade to efficiently strike back and hit the opponent.
The first and last thing one must do is train in the art for there are things beyond one's present comprehension. Something that even YOU must do.
@9Ratsel9 Sure thing. Ive smacked katanas against two by fours and steel chairs. Another blade is the last thing Im afraid of when conducting destruction tests.
@9Ratsel9 Sure thing. Ive smacked katanas against two by fours and steel chairs. Another blade is the last thing Im afraid of when conducting destruction tests.
Here they even smash their edges against one another. Some of the few times I can imagine blocking with the flatside is when the cut is from side to side. In the sport Kendo, they simply flick their shinais to the side to block strikes to the side. From the way they hold their shinai. That would have been a block with the flat side had it been a real sword.
I remember watching this but can't remember how long ago but I remember the scene before this being something like "Please I do not want to fight today, it's my birthday" and jet li's all "I don't give a fuck imma kick your mother fucking asss niggaaa" lol okay those weren't the exact words but yeah..
am just woundring that jet lee is 6 time wu shu champion then why he did,nt shown any stuff much better than he did? I am sure that he knows far better moves than tony jaa did in ong bak but he mostly did,nt tried some thing like that?????????????????? He really should have :)
Blocking with he flat against a side slash isnt a very strong block. But its quick because the movement is more economical. I wouldnt feel comfortable doing it. But Ive seen it in sport. Iaido almost always tend to block with the edge.
@9Ratsel9 Of course...I also own multiple blades. Ive seen them block with the flat side in sport. But traditionally, they mostly block with the edge.
@9Ratsel9 Kempo and TKD as a child. Nothing relating to sword techniques. But I think its pretty self evident from the historical sources and even post modernist ones that blades like the Katana use the edge to block.
@9Ratsel9 It would cause edge damage. We already discussed this. I could get edge damage from just hitting tatami mats. But that doesnt mean that you dont block with the edge in Iaido.
So hitting a tatami mat causes unacceptable edge damage, but deliberately placing your edge in the path of a forceful strike from another sharp sword is perfectly acceptable?
Evading and counter-attacking, and counter-striking (striking the opponent's FLAT with your edge) always seem to be overlooked in almost every movie sword fight.
@9Ratsel9 No, hitting a tatami mat causes acceptable edge damage and blocking with the edge also causes acceptable edge damage. Its a weapon, its meant to be used. Thats why there are services that help deal with edge damage. We have already seen numerous videos of practitioners in Iaido blocking with the edge.
Niten-Ichi-ryu Kenjutsu Nito-no-kata
In the video above from 2:50 onwards, you can see the Kenjitsu practitioner using a cross sword block using both edges.
I cannot speak for the technique exactly because of the angle and the quality of the film. Although, it looks as though the practitioner is just remaining in the path of the strike and relying solely on the strength of his block to protect him.
However, I do know that if you have to use your edge to block or parry then you're not moving properly or just not moving at all...with the right intent etc. etc.
@9Ratsel9 Hes using the edge to block the edge much like almost all Katana videos. Its the most intuitive way to block a sword. Its quicker to move the sword than it is to move the entire body. If you are going to contort your body just so that you block with the back side or the flat side of the blade, then you are letting the sword control you and not you controlling the sword.
I've seen people contort their bodies (torso) simply because they do not move their legs.
They remain rooted to the ground using their arm strength to block (excuse me, I mean smash their edges into the path of the strike). That's how stage actors do it, that's how beginners do it, and that's how people who have had no martial experience with a sword do it.
How would I know? Because I've seen it. People playing Star Wars with real swords. Ouch.
One key element of physical combat, armed and unarmed, is the fact that when he steps I step. Nobody realizes that.
Angling, distancing, and especially timing are what allows you to be safe from the strike then move to counter-attack. If you don't use any of these three you end up using your sword to block and it ends up being a strength match. Which is stronger? His body weight or your arms?
By the way, did you watch and read what I sent you?
@9Ratsel9 Its always better not to block but in the event that you have to. Blocking with the edge is fine. You can always replace a blade, but you cant replace your life.
Do you learn Iaido, Kenjutsu, or any martial art with swords in it? No. I see.
So...how would you know how one PROPERLY handles a sword?
Movies, more movies, stage fights, modern Olympic fencing, and Youtube videos.
Swords are not made of jelly. Yes, a hit to the flat will cause it to flex, but THAT'S WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. An inflexible tree is the first to collapse in a storm compared to one that isn't.
@9Ratsel9 Flex causes the sword to break. Same way if you wanted to break a block of wood, you would break it on its flatside, not on its edge. To be honest, I used to think that blocking with the flatside was logical, until I held a real sword.
Did you learn any martial art with swords in it? No.
Did you suddenly realize you couldn't play Jedi vs. Sith with a real sword? Not really.
Are you still unable to "imagine" with your own logic (without any martial experience regarding swords) how anyone could possibly do anything but smash their edge into a strike? Yes.
Are you still acquiring your information from Youtube videos? Yes.
@9Ratsel9 This is a fallacy argument. You dont need Iaido experience to have common sense. These practitioners routinely block with the edge. If they didnt. they wouldnt block with the edge and teach their students to block with the edge.
In your recent video, the Soke said "Many katana have notches on the back side because they have blocked the sword edge. In fact it is better to dodge and to strike like this: BACK of sword on BACK of sword." Nothing about edge-to-edge.
I STRONGLY suggest you read this one THOROUGHLY from start to finish.
"Edges of Knowledge: Parrying With A Cutting Sword"
@9Ratsel9 You didnt watch the video. He shows off a parrying a move where the back side is used to parry the opponents sword and describes how the back side is used. But he also blocks with the edge of the sword throughout the video.
You have to block edge on edge. You cant block from the non-edge because the sword cant be held properly that way. And you cant block from the flatside, because it would cause the sword to flex.
@9Ratsel9 Yea, they block with the edge on a katana. Its the most intuitive way to block with a sword. It dulls the blade on wherever it is struck. But its also the strongest part of the blade since flex occurs on the flat side of any blade.
@9Ratsel9 Yes, european long swords tend to block with the flat to avoid blunting the blade. Although Im not quite sure why. But the blade is stronger on the edge than it is on the flat since the flat side tends the bend and is normally the side to put pressure on in order to a break a blade.
The fundamentals of Asian swordsmanship is not different from practical European swordsmanship. They both share an understanding of distancing, angling, and timing.
I REALLY don't think Dao techniques teach us to block with the edge. Especially when you can parry with the flat or spine of the blade or evade and counter attack. Especially when you're masters of the art like these two.
@9Ratsel9 You block with the edge because its the most intuitive part of the blade to block with. If you have held a sword you would understand that it is the first part of the blade that that would intuitively meet the opponent's sword when blocking. The only part of the blade that would dull is the small piece that actually meets the other sword. Which would cause the blade to chip. However the consequence with meeting the flat side. Is that the blade would bend or break.
Try this little experiment with a partner. Imagine your hands are blades. First, he throws a cut and you block with your edge. Where is your edge pointing? Next, he throws another cut but you receive it with your flat. Where is your edge pointing now?
Like the first video stated...
A Dao is like a Katana, and if you don't have to sacrifice the edge of the Katana then neither have you to do so for the Dao.
@9Ratsel9 I used swords so I know how to hold one. Blocking with the flat side is only intuitive if the slashes are coming to the left or to the right. But if the slashes are coming overhead, you block with the edge. This is because the blade is held in a natural fist like grip. It if it was changed to the flatside. Your fist would be facing towards you, weakening the grip you have the blade. Risking the sword to slip out of your hand. There is also the likeliness in snapping it.
A sword should be held not grasped (or gripped), by comparison, so that any impact on the blade, be it from striking or parrying, does not transmit too much shock into the arm. This also allows mobility of the wrists.
Parrying is not blocking; at least not in the way the movies show it. You receive and deflect the strike while moving and counterattacking. Like this...
@9Ratsel9 You can block with the flat when the cut is side to side. It feels more natural this way. But if its a downward cut towards head. Is best to block with the edge. Its the shortest movement needed to stop the blade. Plus its safer since the edge is also the strongest part of the blade.
Epic fight, the ending is just so brutal. The way huo punches him in teh chest, and his fist digs in his chest causing chin to vomit out blood from his heart.
damnnn, and how it reflects to the ending.
One of the best movies i've ever seen, fact that its in chinese aswell and still watchable is amazing
I love Jet Li movies and just got the chance to see the new Kung Fu doc “Films of Fury” that came out on demand a little while ago. It had a bunch of great Jet Li action scenes and a lot of other martial arts movie clips as well! bitly .com/uBGPir
LOL spoilers. After reading that, though, I kinda wanna see it more. I love movies with messages behind them. Most Kung Fu movies have moral lessons. Idk I'm kind of obsessed with Kung Fu movies after seeing the documentary "Films of Fury." Has anyone else seen it? bitly .com/uBGPir
Too bad in this fight, the character that Jet Li played felt guilty after killing his opponent. He was actually ashamed of himself for killing for the sake of winning and championship, ignoring all the philosophical aspect of martial arts. Later, he changed himself and at the end of the movie, died honorably in a duel but was remembered for his wisdom in fighting.
now i know why made in china is low quality...their sword can't cut through human's skull...their tables, doors, windows, chairs breaks into tiny pieces when collided with human vertebrae (yea that segmented vertebrae)....
@sappinmytele just so you know the entire ip man thing is a gimmick and extremely over glorified.. even bruce lee himself said that wing chun is all sorts of terrible (go read up on this, it's actually true but he worded it way more eloquently).. In a sheer kung fu match up, ip man himself would get completely obliterated... If you take bits and pieces of wing chun and mash it up with other arts, it is awesome.. Use wing chun by itself and prepare yourself to get your ass completely kicked.
dude wing chun is developed by women to defend themselves therefore it is not design to overpower their opponent. and it is not really that powerful either. and back in the days the proud teachers want to maintain the integrity of the inherited wing chun school technique so they are stubborn while they fail to admit their techniques are outdated. but what remains the same is human. biologically we can only move certain way unless we have 4 new limbs so all movements can be memorized like chess.
bruce lee doesn't need technique...he just kicks faster and more accurately has better reflex and did i mention he is really strong too? no matter how big u r if u r a human bruce lee could take u out cold just by doing his basic kick with lightning speed either to your face or wherever he feels like it. i have seen boxers, ufc fighters, mma, asian martial artists, but none can match bruce lee in speed. size matters but bruce lee is strong enough for any humans (bone can elasticity too u know)
Best straight-ahead Martial Arts Film since Jackie Chan's seminal Drunken Master 2!!! - When Jet Li is in a fight scene you just know shit's about to go down & anyone who thinks this Film is borin' are both jaded & cynical!! - Those Swords look like Chinese Straight Swords!! - To the knob with the top comment, Of course we are watchin' this in 2011 else we wouldn't be readin' that same ridiculous comment for the millionth time!!!
3:19 Never attach rings to your sword
Jetm4N 6 days ago
日本古武道 - 天真正伝香取神道流 前編
More examples of blocking with edges
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
More examples of striking to the opponent's flat.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Please read the essay.
"Edges of Knowledge: Parrying With A Cutting Sword"
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 This essay would have been a very rich source of information if the practice of swordsmanship had gone extinct and thus this literature being the only source to go by. But we routinely see Iiado practitioners block with the edge, thus making this piece of literature questionable. At least to Katanas.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Let's try something practical. For the sake of experimentation, Buy two good quality carbon-steel swords and practise these edge blocks and parries on them. After all, if those Iaido practitioners do it then there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Right? Besides, any idiot can wield a sword without training. It's all common sense. Right?
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 There is nothing wrong with blocking with the edge. You made the opinion that blocking with the edge was incorrect. Iaido practitioners and experts however do block with the edge. You can continue to claim its wrong to do so. But Katans are blocked with the edge.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Remember. This is an experiment. Those two should be of good quality and you're not going to keep them. You're just testing a theory. What about edge damage? Like you said there are services that deal with it. And even if you cannot repair them (which is very likely) they are not swords for your collection so you needn't worry.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 A sword is a tool, its meant to be used. Its not the last sword that is going to be produced. A sword can be repaired or another one produced. Blocking with the edge can save a life, a sword can always be replaced.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
In response to the "fallacy argument" post. There are things that occur frequently.
1. The technique is valid, but because of the lighting, camera angle, speed, etc. the flat parry or counter-strike to the flat LOOKS like an edge block. Afterall, the bokken is only turned that much to align the flat facing upwards.
2. The technique is invalid. Because there are people with little or no training and understanding of the art to know what works and what doesn't.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 居想会・無外流剣術・居合：萬法帰一刀
blocking with the edge. In slow motion.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Look up Katana vs. Broadsword. The blades are chipped and the Katana is COMPLETELY WRECKED.
If the experts do it, why don't you? Two good swords and a few hard edge blocks. What's stopping you?
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 I couldnt find that video. But I did find a video about the Katana vs longsword. But none of this is relevant to the discussion. Whats relevant is whether or not you could block with the edge. And the answer is you can. And of course I would block with the edge if I was forced to block. The edge is the part of my blade that would naturally meet my opponent's blade, when encountering an overhead cut.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
It's not on Youtube. I can't send you the link. It is relevant. What happens when an edge impacts another edge?
Why don't you test that theory with two good swords?
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Its not relevant because its an isolated test that has no relation to this discussion. The discussion was whether or not blades could be blocked with the edge. Some styles may argue against it. But Katanas are routinely blocked with the edge.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Why don't you test it with two good swords?
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Sure thing. Ive smacked katanas against two by fours and steel chairs. Another blade is the last thing Im afraid of when conducting destruction tests.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Then do it. A few good hard strikes on the edge.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Not a problem. I own swords. Every sword I have used have edge damage due to actual usage.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I'm not just talking about cutting blocks of wood. I'm talking about full power edge-on-edge contact with another sword.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Its not even an issue. Striking head on against another edge is even less of a concern as opposed to striking a steel pipe.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Did you try it? Standing still and stopping a FULL POWER strike with your edge?
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Sure, its not even an issue. Actually get a deeper gash on the opposing blade when striking the opposing sword's back.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
So you have. Several times?
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Exactly. The damage taken from an edge on edge scenario is much less a problem when compared striking against the back side of the blade.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
So you just stand there and hope that your arm strength will save you? Do the swords cut after the edge bashing as cleanly as before?
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Yea. Most edge damage is cosmetic. They still remain dangerously sharp. But if you were to try to resell the blade, its value would drop considerably because the buyer would expect a flawless blade. But edge damage doesnt prevent a sword from cutting. Blades that have their tips rolled over, are still able to thrust through targets. And blades with edge damage are still very dangerous.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
YOU JUST STAND THERE?! Right then. Let's recap.
1. You've held and own a real carbon-steel sword.
2. You have absolutely NO martial art training to speak of where swords are concerned, yet you speak as though you know how to fight with one.
3. Your knowledge stems from Youtube videos, your own logic, and test cutting your own swords (the results of which I cannot verify), and still nothing from any martial experience.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 You are attacking my credibility which has no relevance to this issue. The issue is whether or not it is correct to block with the edge of the sword. And the answer is that it is correct to block with the edge of the sword. Iaido experts routinely block with the sword. I simply delivered that message to you. Blocking with the edge, especially with a katana is undeniable.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Even if the experts of the art do so, YOU must first TRAIN in it before you can tell me ANYTHING about it. You have very little credibility because YOU...HAVE...NO...EXPERIENCE.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 My experience is irrelevant to this issue. I am giving you first hand visual evidence of Iaido experts blocking with the edge of their swords. Attacking my credibility no way changes the fact that the edges of katanas are used to block their opponent's blades.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
YOU spoke as though YOU know how to handle a sword. YOU spoke of wrist alignment. YOU said blocking with the edge was the only way YOU could think of to stop a strike. Having said all that, you can't blame me for assuming that you've at least learnt a martial art involving a sword. But since you haven't, anything regarding what YOU think is now moot.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Because all of those things are reasonable. If you were to block an overhead cut with the flatside or the backside of your blade. It would include unnecessary movements. In addition, your wrists wouldnt be locked in to stop the cut. But even if you disregarded everything I said. It doesnt change the fact that Iaido experts block with the edge of their swords.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Go learn the damn art! Excuse me. Please go learn the damn art!
Now. Regarding your visual evidence, I have seen instructors break down techniques into individual movements to facilitate teaching. Therefore, viewing any movement by itself can and will lead to misconceptions.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 There is no misconception about blocking the sword with its edge. Because it is clearly done. One does not need to be a Buddhist or worship at a Buddhist temple to know that Buddhists practice Buddhism, the same way people who are experts with swords block with the edges of their swords.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Students who do not understand the art sometimes try to teach what they've seen but do not understand. This pattern has been repeating itself for centuries. Now more than ever because we no longer NEED swords to fight.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Sometimes 80 percent of the technique is correct but the last twenty isn't.
Youtube allows ANY Tom, Dick, Harry, Mary, Jane, and Sally to post videos of martial art techniques. Combined with poor film quality, poor lighting, the forementioned lack of understanding, and/or lack of context you end up with a video of an incorrect technique that can look authentic.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
You should never learn a martial art entirely from a book or video. That is why I cannot stress enough why you should first and last LEARN...THE...DAMN...ART. There are elements in them that we cannot see unless we DO it.
Longsword, Katana, Dao. Whatever sword is used, if you do not understand the nature of the weapon and the nature of combat your 'realistic' movie sword fights will always be bollocks.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 did u see the katana fight at the end of the movie? damm. he mixed kendo with wushu and it got so natural, so clean, so efficient and deadly. they japanese and the fight director were really great!
rafaelfmolina 2 weeks ago
@rafaelfmolina
Kendo WITH Wushu? I saw Kendo THEN Wushu.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 yeah i rewatched the fight 4 times and i must say i was wrong bcz thats not the way to use a katana, he was hammering in agaons the iron pole like a sword/axe. wushu was the part of the free movement bcz in kendo his posture would be lower.
rafaelfmolina 2 weeks ago
@rafaelfmolina
I can't understand exactly what you're saying.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
To punch, one must move. To kick, one must move. To cut, one must move. To evade,one m....well, it goes without saying. To counter-attack, one must move. To counter-strike, one must move.
When one FIRST moves to safety only then will one know how to place one's blade to efficiently strike back and hit the opponent.
The first and last thing one must do is train in the art for there are things beyond one's present comprehension. Something that even YOU must do.
9Ratsel9 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@9Ratsel9 Sure thing. Ive smacked katanas against two by fours and steel chairs. Another blade is the last thing Im afraid of when conducting destruction tests.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@9Ratsel9 Sure thing. Ive smacked katanas against two by fours and steel chairs. Another blade is the last thing Im afraid of when conducting destruction tests.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
気剣体一致の妙：剣法・剣法稽古その四
Sakura Matsuri Samurai sword demonstration #1
Here they even smash their edges against one another. Some of the few times I can imagine blocking with the flatside is when the cut is from side to side. In the sport Kendo, they simply flick their shinais to the side to block strikes to the side. From the way they hold their shinai. That would have been a block with the flat side had it been a real sword.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
I dont know what are the walls made with but the owner got screwed big time lol
WeedFromHell 3 weeks ago
thanks for uploading this vid..now i know what to do when a guy is running at me with a bigass sword
ClosetNinja504 4 weeks ago
155 vs 185 catchwieght
DaRudeBoy6691 1 month ago
Its mortal kombat
MULTIKAHL 1 month ago
I remember watching this but can't remember how long ago but I remember the scene before this being something like "Please I do not want to fight today, it's my birthday" and jet li's all "I don't give a fuck imma kick your mother fucking asss niggaaa" lol okay those weren't the exact words but yeah..
Febreezi 1 month ago 6
pause @ 4:29. Isn't that the most scariest and badass muthafucka you've ever seen?
hELLrAZOR91100 1 month ago
Brutal
Trancemaster2052 1 month ago
am just woundring that jet lee is 6 time wu shu champion then why he did,nt shown any stuff much better than he did? I am sure that he knows far better moves than tony jaa did in ong bak but he mostly did,nt tried some thing like that?????????????????? He really should have :)
sharykhan24 1 month ago
''jet is the legend'' love him.........!
sharykhan24 1 month ago
Fight scenes like this is why I will always love Jet Li over Jackie Chan.
Papadoc1981 1 month ago
4:25 Falcon Punch!!!
kayraiden1 1 month ago
someone needs dub over this with lightsabers!!!!!!!!!!
isuckreallyreallybad 1 month ago
this is was like IP-MAN of in erily 2000s,in his Hey day of Jet li's
Bk94541 1 month ago
4:15 FINISH HIM up down down x y up
bananaknot123 1 month ago
4:14 - Finish him!!!
MrGoatPolice 1 month ago
MASTER YIS SWORD !!! ( League of Legends ) 0:03 x)
IchBinGutPc 1 month ago
Comment removed
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
Samurai Swordsmanship DVD 3 Preview
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
Blocking with he flat against a side slash isnt a very strong block. But its quick because the movement is more economical. I wouldnt feel comfortable doing it. But Ive seen it in sport. Iaido almost always tend to block with the edge.
watch?v=LrldbR6_WOE
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I'm talking about traditional cut-to-kill techniques (if you'll excuse the pun), not sport techniques. I have seen the video.
By the way, have you learnt any martial art before?
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@9Ratsel9 Of course...I also own multiple blades. Ive seen them block with the flat side in sport. But traditionally, they mostly block with the edge.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Which one?
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@9Ratsel9 Kempo and TKD as a child. Nothing relating to sword techniques. But I think its pretty self evident from the historical sources and even post modernist ones that blades like the Katana use the edge to block.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
NOTHING related to swords. I see...
Watch this one. Pay close attention from 4:00 onward.
youtube.com/watch?v=L0cUIjE01Wk&feature=related
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Samurai Sword (Part 4-5) HD
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
The other videos.
Another common misconception of Sword-fighting. (series)
Todai Ninjutsu Training - Blocking with Katana
Here's something very nice to read.
Edges of Knowledge:
Parrying With A Cutting Sword
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@9Ratsel9 Kuroda Senseï Kenjutsu part 1
You can see them blocking with the edge, even going so far as placing their hand on the backside of the blade for support.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Mind Body & Kick Ass Moves - Death on a beach Kuroda
Same sensei. At 1:00 and 3:49 the uke blocks with the flat.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Hes blocking on the edge in those instances. He even has his hands on the backside of the blade to support the block on the edge.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Do you have any sharpened authentic carbon-steel swords in your collection?
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 No authentic swords. But I have production pieces. Like Cheness, Hanwei, Cold Steel etc.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Alright. Get two carbon-steel swords and smash them together edge-on-edge.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 It would cause edge damage. We already discussed this. I could get edge damage from just hitting tatami mats. But that doesnt mean that you dont block with the edge in Iaido.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
So hitting a tatami mat causes unacceptable edge damage, but deliberately placing your edge in the path of a forceful strike from another sharp sword is perfectly acceptable?
Evading and counter-attacking, and counter-striking (striking the opponent's FLAT with your edge) always seem to be overlooked in almost every movie sword fight.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 No, hitting a tatami mat causes acceptable edge damage and blocking with the edge also causes acceptable edge damage. Its a weapon, its meant to be used. Thats why there are services that help deal with edge damage. We have already seen numerous videos of practitioners in Iaido blocking with the edge.
Niten-Ichi-ryu Kenjutsu Nito-no-kata
In the video above from 2:50 onwards, you can see the Kenjitsu practitioner using a cross sword block using both edges.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I cannot speak for the technique exactly because of the angle and the quality of the film. Although, it looks as though the practitioner is just remaining in the path of the strike and relying solely on the strength of his block to protect him.
However, I do know that if you have to use your edge to block or parry then you're not moving properly or just not moving at all...with the right intent etc. etc.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Hes using the edge to block the edge much like almost all Katana videos. Its the most intuitive way to block a sword. Its quicker to move the sword than it is to move the entire body. If you are going to contort your body just so that you block with the back side or the flat side of the blade, then you are letting the sword control you and not you controlling the sword.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I've seen people contort their bodies (torso) simply because they do not move their legs.
They remain rooted to the ground using their arm strength to block (excuse me, I mean smash their edges into the path of the strike). That's how stage actors do it, that's how beginners do it, and that's how people who have had no martial experience with a sword do it.
How would I know? Because I've seen it. People playing Star Wars with real swords. Ouch.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Its perfectly fine to block with the edge. Which is why trained practitioners block with the edge.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
One key element of physical combat, armed and unarmed, is the fact that when he steps I step. Nobody realizes that.
Angling, distancing, and especially timing are what allows you to be safe from the strike then move to counter-attack. If you don't use any of these three you end up using your sword to block and it ends up being a strength match. Which is stronger? His body weight or your arms?
By the way, did you watch and read what I sent you?
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Its always better not to block but in the event that you have to. Blocking with the edge is fine. You can always replace a blade, but you cant replace your life.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I ask again. Did you watch and READ what I sent you?
Do you learn Iaido? Do you learn Kenjutsu? Do you learn any martial art with swords in it?
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 No, but its pretty obvious that you block with your edge when using a katana.
気剣体一致の妙：剣法・剣法稽古その四
Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu
Examples of blocking with edges.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
So you didn't watch and read what I sent you and you also do not learn Iaido, Kenjutsu, or any martial art with swords in it.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 I watched what you sent. And they block with the edge. The videos I showed you also show that they block with the edge.
Sword school, Japan, English subbed
Another example of blocking with the edge. You can block with any part of the blade, and that includes blocking with the edge.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Do you learn Iaido, Kenjutsu, or any martial art with swords in it? No. I see.
So...how would you know how one PROPERLY handles a sword?
Movies, more movies, stage fights, modern Olympic fencing, and Youtube videos.
Swords are not made of jelly. Yes, a hit to the flat will cause it to flex, but THAT'S WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. An inflexible tree is the first to collapse in a storm compared to one that isn't.
To be fair, I used to think the same way you do.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 Flex causes the sword to break. Same way if you wanted to break a block of wood, you would break it on its flatside, not on its edge. To be honest, I used to think that blocking with the flatside was logical, until I held a real sword.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Did you learn any martial art with swords in it? No.
Did you suddenly realize you couldn't play Jedi vs. Sith with a real sword? Not really.
Are you still unable to "imagine" with your own logic (without any martial experience regarding swords) how anyone could possibly do anything but smash their edge into a strike? Yes.
Are you still acquiring your information from Youtube videos? Yes.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 This is a fallacy argument. You dont need Iaido experience to have common sense. These practitioners routinely block with the edge. If they didnt. they wouldnt block with the edge and teach their students to block with the edge.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
In your recent video, the Soke said "Many katana have notches on the back side because they have blocked the sword edge. In fact it is better to dodge and to strike like this: BACK of sword on BACK of sword." Nothing about edge-to-edge.
I STRONGLY suggest you read this one THOROUGHLY from start to finish.
"Edges of Knowledge: Parrying With A Cutting Sword"
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 You didnt watch the video. He shows off a parrying a move where the back side is used to parry the opponents sword and describes how the back side is used. But he also blocks with the edge of the sword throughout the video.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I somehow quoted a video word for word without watching it. That's amazing.
By the way, he struck the opponent's flat. Watch it again.
9Ratsel9 3 weeks ago
@9Ratsel9 He blocked with the edge. There are numerous videos that show this.
日本古武道 - 天真正伝香取神道流 前編
More examples of blocking with the edge.
居想会・居合・剣法・翻車刀
Lordofthenipplerings 3 weeks ago
jet li's face at 2:29
"ahhhh fuck :\ "
MATilbrook 2 months ago
Mmm! 1:04 made me have to rub my head.
Seieukos 2 months ago
best fight scene ever.
DragonOfQin 2 months ago
AWESOME and so raw!
youtu13ejunkie 2 months ago
i'd have to say this is probably my favourite fight scene of all time.
moman007 2 months ago
The magic of movies... :)
BasementBeginnings 2 months ago
Most people get wasted with booze, then fight.
These 2 fought, and wasted a whole cellar of rice wine in the process while at it.
Rhyas9 2 months ago 10
I always knew those rings were a bad idea.
95ellington 2 months ago
great movie
jayd4ever 2 months ago
Its not realistic in that it lasted over 4 minutes. I think 5 to 10 seconds would have seemed about right assuming both simply exchanged.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
You have to block edge on edge. You cant block from the non-edge because the sword cant be held properly that way. And you cant block from the flatside, because it would cause the sword to flex.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Longsword techniques don't block with the edge.
Kenjutsu techniques don't block with the edge.
Arming sword techniques don't block with the edge.
Sabre techniques don't block with the edge. (Traditional techniques, by the way)
But Chinese Dao techniques do?
From what I've seen, the Dao is a single-edged weapon like the Katana and the Sabre.
And I agree. The fight went on for far longer than it should have. :)
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@9Ratsel9 Yea, they block with the edge on a katana. Its the most intuitive way to block with a sword. It dulls the blade on wherever it is struck. But its also the strongest part of the blade since flex occurs on the flat side of any blade.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Look this up on Youtube.
Longsword Techniques - Receiving Strikes on Flat
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@9Ratsel9 Yes, european long swords tend to block with the flat to avoid blunting the blade. Although Im not quite sure why. But the blade is stronger on the edge than it is on the flat since the flat side tends the bend and is normally the side to put pressure on in order to a break a blade.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
The edge is the most important part of the blade.
The fundamentals of Asian swordsmanship is not different from practical European swordsmanship. They both share an understanding of distancing, angling, and timing.
I REALLY don't think Dao techniques teach us to block with the edge. Especially when you can parry with the flat or spine of the blade or evade and counter attack. Especially when you're masters of the art like these two.
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Here's another video.
youtube.com/watch?v=KiTQBLWVG4w
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@9Ratsel9 You block with the edge because its the most intuitive part of the blade to block with. If you have held a sword you would understand that it is the first part of the blade that that would intuitively meet the opponent's sword when blocking. The only part of the blade that would dull is the small piece that actually meets the other sword. Which would cause the blade to chip. However the consequence with meeting the flat side. Is that the blade would bend or break.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I have held a sword. I have used a sword.
There is no technique I know that forces you to block like that.
And besides, you parry with it. You don't block HEAD ON with it.
Parrying allows you to deflect his blow whilst putting you in a position to counterattack efficiently.
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
Try this little experiment with a partner. Imagine your hands are blades. First, he throws a cut and you block with your edge. Where is your edge pointing? Next, he throws another cut but you receive it with your flat. Where is your edge pointing now?
Like the first video stated...
A Dao is like a Katana, and if you don't have to sacrifice the edge of the Katana then neither have you to do so for the Dao.
1:46 was heartbreaking. All those chips...
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@9Ratsel9 I used swords so I know how to hold one. Blocking with the flat side is only intuitive if the slashes are coming to the left or to the right. But if the slashes are coming overhead, you block with the edge. This is because the blade is held in a natural fist like grip. It if it was changed to the flatside. Your fist would be facing towards you, weakening the grip you have the blade. Risking the sword to slip out of your hand. There is also the likeliness in snapping it.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I see. So you can block with the flat. Right.
A sword should be held not grasped (or gripped), by comparison, so that any impact on the blade, be it from striking or parrying, does not transmit too much shock into the arm. This also allows mobility of the wrists.
Parrying is not blocking; at least not in the way the movies show it. You receive and deflect the strike while moving and counterattacking. Like this...
youtube.com/watch?v=SwrZASj_i7Y&feature=related
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
@9Ratsel9 You can block with the flat when the cut is side to side. It feels more natural this way. But if its a downward cut towards head. Is best to block with the edge. Its the shortest movement needed to stop the blade. Plus its safer since the edge is also the strongest part of the blade.
Lordofthenipplerings 2 months ago
@Lordofthenipplerings
I think in this case it's best not to STOP the strike but rather parry it. Like the video in the link I sent you.
9Ratsel9 2 months ago
no description avaliable?
no description needed.
LegendSw0rd 2 months ago
Even if you nuke them they'd rise up from the radiation dust...
ukurikose 2 months ago
i want swords like those... :P
6overmind6 3 months ago
Epic fight, the ending is just so brutal. The way huo punches him in teh chest, and his fist digs in his chest causing chin to vomit out blood from his heart.
damnnn, and how it reflects to the ending.
One of the best movies i've ever seen, fact that its in chinese aswell and still watchable is amazing
Fondrom 3 months ago
That should've been the guys head sliced in half at 1:03
Scar666Ali 3 months ago
that is awesome scene.
jtk159 3 months ago
I love Jet Li movies and just got the chance to see the new Kung Fu doc “Films of Fury” that came out on demand a little while ago. It had a bunch of great Jet Li action scenes and a lot of other martial arts movie clips as well! bitly .com/uBGPir
mustlovecinema 3 months ago
The infamous rifled punch
randomazn420 3 months ago
Was that ken watanabe in the red?
randomazn420 3 months ago
I Mean Jet Li Was Jumping Like Master Yoda!
EllisNick97 3 months ago
JNet Li Was Jumping Like Master Yoda!
EllisNick97 3 months ago
am i the only one who thinks this is like a really good quality mortal kombat fight scene lol ?
jovicakluk 3 months ago
No lie, Huo Yuanjia got lucky in this fight. Mastin Chin was so badass it was crazy
nmisa 3 months ago
4:17 FINISH HIM!!!
4:24 FATALITY
5x5DJ8x8 3 months ago
this with some eminem awww yaaaaa
Armystrong501st 3 months ago
LOL spoilers. After reading that, though, I kinda wanna see it more. I love movies with messages behind them. Most Kung Fu movies have moral lessons. Idk I'm kind of obsessed with Kung Fu movies after seeing the documentary "Films of Fury." Has anyone else seen it? bitly .com/uBGPir
melisse1123 4 months ago
Yes I'm watching this in 2011 and yes I brought myself here, big fucking deal
pupentaco 4 months ago
I wasn't concerned with this fight. cuz i mean jet li coulda fought this battle with a butterknife and the outcome woulda been the same.
worrmiesroo 4 months ago
Too bad in this fight, the character that Jet Li played felt guilty after killing his opponent. He was actually ashamed of himself for killing for the sake of winning and championship, ignoring all the philosophical aspect of martial arts. Later, he changed himself and at the end of the movie, died honorably in a duel but was remembered for his wisdom in fighting.
youngernet 4 months ago
@youngernet
funny, for those who havent seen the movie, this guy just spoiled it for you!!!
ghostfire1234 4 months ago
4:21 FALCON PUNCH!
gheith001 4 months ago
Too bad these guys were enemies. Imagine them on the same team
moguy200979 4 months ago
"My sword is so cool, I gave it piercings!"
Glitcher2000 4 months ago 18
@Glitcher2000 LOL! that's a 9 ring saber btw
malevolenceXXXensues 2 months ago
now i know why made in china is low quality...their sword can't cut through human's skull...their tables, doors, windows, chairs breaks into tiny pieces when collided with human vertebrae (yea that segmented vertebrae)....
Myoldnamesdontwork 4 months ago
I found an epic combination. Start this video at 0:11 and start The Catalyst by Linkin park at 0:19. The two fit together very, very well.
htgnef 4 months ago
I remember watching this scene when I was younger.
Halberd96 4 months ago
Jus bad!
threecanal 4 months ago
It's called Dao, it's not really sword per say.
You see, the Japs fucked that one up for the Chinese. Since they call Katana as Dao and Jian at the same time.
Dao and Jian are two very different weapon.
Jian is usually a lot thinner, with edge on both sides.
Dao is primarily designed for hacking action. It's a lot wider and thicker compared to Jian. And it is edged only on one side.
AznJiggah 4 months ago
This is a fantastic movie
There are even a couple of other fights in this movie that are this good,
And the story actally pretty captivating in itself.
originalsugarcake 4 months ago
IP man would have kicked their asses
sappinmytele 4 months ago
@sappinmytele just so you know the entire ip man thing is a gimmick and extremely over glorified.. even bruce lee himself said that wing chun is all sorts of terrible (go read up on this, it's actually true but he worded it way more eloquently).. In a sheer kung fu match up, ip man himself would get completely obliterated... If you take bits and pieces of wing chun and mash it up with other arts, it is awesome.. Use wing chun by itself and prepare yourself to get your ass completely kicked.
student908065 4 months ago
dude wing chun is developed by women to defend themselves therefore it is not design to overpower their opponent. and it is not really that powerful either. and back in the days the proud teachers want to maintain the integrity of the inherited wing chun school technique so they are stubborn while they fail to admit their techniques are outdated. but what remains the same is human. biologically we can only move certain way unless we have 4 new limbs so all movements can be memorized like chess.
Myoldnamesdontwork 4 months ago
bruce lee doesn't need technique...he just kicks faster and more accurately has better reflex and did i mention he is really strong too? no matter how big u r if u r a human bruce lee could take u out cold just by doing his basic kick with lightning speed either to your face or wherever he feels like it. i have seen boxers, ufc fighters, mma, asian martial artists, but none can match bruce lee in speed. size matters but bruce lee is strong enough for any humans (bone can elasticity too u know)
Myoldnamesdontwork 4 months ago
heh heh sweet
minkusink6 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Best straight-ahead Martial Arts Film since Jackie Chan's seminal Drunken Master 2!!! - When Jet Li is in a fight scene you just know shit's about to go down & anyone who thinks this Film is borin' are both jaded & cynical!! - Those Swords look like Chinese Straight Swords!! - To the knob with the top comment, Of course we are watchin' this in 2011 else we wouldn't be readin' that same ridiculous comment for the millionth time!!!
KindredKunoichi 5 months ago 16
Realistic sword-on-sword action.
The athleticism of Jet Li never fails to amaze me.
ArbiteroftheLight 5 months ago 12
@ArbiteroftheLight
Realistic? Hardly.
9Ratsel9 3 months ago
@9Ratsel9
How realistic do you expect a sword fight to be, all the fights seemed so realistic in this movie
Fondrom 3 months ago
@Fondrom
The atmosphere of this scene is intense, of course.
But if you want a 'realistic' sword fight, how about not blocking edge-on-edge to start with. That's the least you could do.
9Ratsel9 3 months ago
Comment removed
KindredKunoichi 5 months ago 2
Comment removed
KindredKunoichi 5 months ago 2
Nice!
VaultBoy96 5 months ago