@shazzbot007 Here is another Ohio Yank, it is bad. Too many corrupt or lazy people in High postitons. If we're not sold out in some way, we're sold out in another, you know?
@youneac: So you think stealing the value of a currency is a viable economic solution? It's a secret tax that the average person just doesn't understand. I'm not bashing, I give you credit for at least knowing what the Fed is, most people don't but still try to argue their political views. There used to be a death clause in the Constitution for bankers that tried to devalue the currency...they got rid of that real quick lol.
US is not Capitalist, its Fascist (merger of corporate and state), and it sure as hell isn't a free-market. In a free-market economy, the markets set interest rates. In the US, the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and the poeple are too stupid to understand that and they just go and blame it on Capitalism without knowing how the system even works. Your taught in school how it's supposed to work, not how it really works in present time. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a US agency.
US is not Capitalist, its Fascist (merger of corporate and state), and it sure as hell isn't a free-market. In a free-market economy, the markets set interest rates. In the US, the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and the poeple are too stupid to understand that and they just go and blame it on Capitalism without knowing how the system even works. Your taught in school how it's supposed to work, not how it really works in present time. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a US agency.
In History we will hear that Capitalism fails just as much as Socialism due to fact that evil people will try to things to con and rip people off, in turn needing a government to make thousands of laws to the point to where the only thing we have to eat is Soylent Green. The Love of money is the root of all evil!!
what motivates the actions between two individuals?...kindness?...kindness would not have gotten millions of people an iPhone, nor and automobile...
A personal gain - of both parties - motivates the interactions...
iPhone for example...Apple wants money from alot of individuals to use for 1) increasing wealth and 2) further expanding business...if Apple sets the prices too high, they get no money.
People want iPhones...should the price be right, they get the iPhones
Trust me...i care nothing for the banking system, nor the bail outs...this isnt Capitalism.
This is Government controlled, regulated and manipulated Corporatism...big donors to the campaign recieve legislation in return that impedes further competition within that sector...see big pharma, automobile, power, computer, bank, wall street, large agriculture, etc...the list goes on.
Education is a Right?...you adore Socialism, a theory that does not support individual Rights...now you are promoting an Individual Right?...odd.
By the way...your Life is your right...education, should it come from another individuals teachings (i.e. another individuals labor) is not a Right...same thing for Healthcare or any other knowledge/labor intensive service.
You are right...you cannot compare one over the other, because in reality...one doesnt exist...Society.
Society IS a group of Individuals, where ONLY the Individuals decide for themselves...society has no needs for survival, no needs for prosperity, no needs for happiness - only the individuals do.
So...what brings about the Individual needs morally?...a system in which powers the individual to make his own decisions without influence of force, Capitlaism.
You listen to way too much one-sided news...read Capitalism: The unknown ideal by Ayn Rand or read anything from the Mises Institute if you really want to understand Capitalism...dont expect CNN/MSNBC or foreign governments to educate you on the truth...Capitalism is the ONLY economic system that promotes and holds Liberty and Freedom paramount above all.
Remember, both parties recieve a profit in a voluntary trade under Capitalism.
Individual Rights and Property Rights are paramount in Capitalism...
You are acting as if people are opressed without their will...individuals make decisions, individuals sign contracts for work in exchange for pay...if the individual opts to work or $1 per day...it is his/her fault, noone elses
Socialism is based on the abolition of property rights and individual rights, i.e. MY LIFE.
Socialism is immoral, Capitalism is moral...plain and simple.
When you buy an iPod; you and Apple win...Apple wanted your money more than the iPod and you wanted the iPod more than your money...Capitalism is based on the value of the goods you have versus the goods you wish to exchange for...
Any "losses" that you feel have occured, you have brought on yourself as you could have valued your money more than the object of which you exchanged it for...
The government need to leave these people alone...they aren't hurting anyone.
On a wide scale, independent farming will not work. The people have become lazy and too dependent on the government to provide for them. They don't even teach home ec or FFA in the schools and the parents are too busy to teach their children...the generation today have no idea how to sustain or prepare food.
@CountryGirlNOhio Absolutely! And when you think about all the big apartment complexes in every major city with tons of people living in them, when a major food crisis happens, what are they gonna do? Even if they wanted to practice living off the land before the SHTF, they can't... they're stuck.
@survivingthefuture ....It is a shame and I refuse to put myself in a position like this. We live in the suburbs and that's still too close to the city for me. I was raised up in the old country ways and now it's paying off.
OMG thats what I was thinking! it would be way healthier to live on farm than in the city. Safer and Cheeper too I bet, i mean you wouldn't have to buy everything anymore, and thugs and police wouldn't be everywhere. Dude. This is now my dream.
@lastpoina thats not true.. real capitaslism (not what we have in america now) creates new values.. because if you produce something (bankers dont produce) you create something with a higher value because of your own skills needed to build it.
real free market capitalism is not the problem.the problem is that our countries are run by bankers. capitalist save money and invest in new businesses (jobs).. wall street is destroying money or better said the value of the money. they do qe2 in usa now:/
These are people the consumers should be supporting. Not the large multinational corporations that essentially exclude the the population by monopolizing a product. This is exactly why buying organic, locally grown food is essential for sustainability. We CAN feed the world by LOCALIZING food productions. Oh, what a world it would be!
Capitalism isn't the wrong way. Their problems are due to other reasons besides capitalism. Those who don't produce want to take from those who produce? That doesn't sound fair at all. Sounds like the poor need more charities. Capitalism simply means that if you work hard, and you earn any sort of income, you get to keep it without fear of the government stealing it under the guise of legislation.
@DJTmaq Yes, but capitalism does become a problem when corporate greed is taken into account. In this sense, capitalism is responsible for much of the corruption in the US and elsewhere.
@KillerCracker69, Well, i think corporate greed can be a problem in whatever economic principles you practice. I don't believe the fault is capitalism, instead it's an unmoral corrupt attitude of the heart that causes rich greedy men to squash and cheat the lower ranks.
@DJTmaq You just don't really understand what capitalism is. Try reading Karl Marx - he was a genius, and understood before everyone and better then anyone else what capitalism is. Capitalists (big corporations today) will destroy everything around for profit.
@asoly1, What? are you kidding me? Are you seriously going to tell me that YOU know what i do and do not understand? I understand capitalism well. But you must not have read my only comment on here. And when you do actually read it, please remember that it's a short comment and not an in depth description of capitalism. But please don't think for a second you can tell me what i do and do not understand.
The elites plan to depopulate the earth, destroy the middle class & move the surviving to a few huge cities. "Re-wild" most of the US. ITs been a UN plan for over 15 yrs. Bush &Clinton started. Its called "biodiversity" but is really the opposite. Its eugenics or straight depopulation through aerosols, vaccines, & releases of lab virus's like H1N1. Why do you think the Bush family bought 250,000 hectares in Paraguay right next to a huge aquifer next door to Rev Moon 4 yrs ago ?
@GrassyKnollTrolls, You are absolutely right, you are absolutely right, you are absolutely right. Thank you for posting. "The elites plan to depopulate the earth, destroy the middle class & move the surviving to a few huge cities." and the rest of your comment too. Capitalism isn't at fault, it's the corrupt elites who have designed the collapse of society. Starting with collapsing our dollar.
US is not Capitalist, its Fascist (merger of corporate and state), and it sure as hell isn't a free-market. In a free-market economy, the markets set interest rates. In the US, the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and the poeple are too stupid to understand that and they just go and blame it on Capitalism without knowing how the system even works. Your taught in school how it's supposed to work, not how it really works in present time. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a US agency.
@HelpWakePeopleUp, you are 100% right. It's not capitalism to blame, it's the global elites designing the fall of america. I'm going to copy your comment and repost it.
@helltrackrider perhaps you should take a minute and look up the meaning of the word 'capitalism' in e.g. the Encyclopedia Britannica.
"Economic system in which most of the means of production are privately owned, and production is guided and income distributed largely through the operation of markets. Capitalism has been dominant in the Western world since the end of mercantilism. It was fostered by the Reformation, which sanctioned hard work and frugality, and by the rise of industry... "
In a Capitalist economy; the decisions within the economy (i.e. money supply, interest rates, insurance of deposits/loans, demand, supply, etc) are made by the market - not a central planner (aka government or Federal Reserve)
As todays economy is based solely on the interest rates.money supply set by the Federal Reserve and all other decisions are directly influenced by Central Government regulation and legislation - this is not Capitalism.
@helltrackrider I appreciate your view, though I don't concur. Yes, the Fed influences interest rates, but so do banks among themselves, and business and consumer demand. Influence does not equal control. The trends show that the correlation between the Fed's discount rate and the interest rates for e.g. mortgages and savings accounts are only very loosely coupled. Of course, when convenient, the banks will blame the Fed's policies for lousy commercial interest rates, but that's just blame game.
The problem is that the FED supresses the interest rate, not that it regulates it...should it regulate it somewhat appropriately; that would offer less concern to the economic stability...
By supressing it low, other banks have to compete for loans at lower rates as well...having low rates all over the market creates a hazard to the economy by sending the false signal that money is available for borrowing...thus, we get bubbles.
Should the millions of daily interactions and actual deposits be setting the interest rates...the rates would be extremely high presently (and this is needed) due to the lack of savings in our economy...there is very little, supply and demand tells you that you have to pay more (interest) in order to borrow principal when the supply is limited.
The FED, by supressing the rates, alters the natural supply / demand correlation that would normally occur.
@helltrackrider I agree with your view on most points. Personally, I view the US economy as beyond salvation, whatever measures are taken.
However, none of this disqualifies western economies as being capitalist. For capitalism there has to be a currency, and a currency has to be backed by something, whether it be gold reserves or treasury bonds. Thus, a certain measure of influence from the controller of that currency is inevitable, even mandatory.
One significant difference...Gold currency preserves Liberty, whereas, IOU Treasury Bonds backed by nothing dismantle Liberty with every extra greenback printed.
@helltrackrider I agree. However, even with a currency backed by gold or other precious materials, there'd have to be a government institution controlling it.
Without the FED...the dot com boom/bust would not have occured, the housing boom/bust would not have occured, the soon to come treasury bond boom/bust will not occur....
not to mention our government would have never been able to achieve a total spent debt + entitlement debt + acquired toxic assets by Fannie/Freddie without the Federal Reserve.
The controlling of the money is more of a threat to Liberty than a standing army. Without the money, you cannot have the army.
@helltrackrider I agree that for most of the economic irregularities, the Fed was part of the problem. Thinking that things would have been better without the Fed, though, is wishful thinking. There'd have been a range of other disruptions. Whether the net effect would have been positive or negative is academic.
I think history has shown that the "disruptions" in a non-central banking economy are very minor when compared to what an all-controlling Central Bank provides...for starters, the Dollar never lost value without a Central Bank....with it, it lost +95% of its value.
@helltrackrider The American model of capitalism has collapsed as it can no longer widen the intake at the bottom of the pyramid. It is also an abusive form of capitalism where the top of the pyramid has an ever exploitative the further down the pyramid one is. Simply put someone has to suffer.
Economy, you, I and the next person will always continue. It is not one and the same, one is a virtual economy of dept for a start and the other a real economy of trade.
Why do you think the "top of the pyramid" has been able to abuse the "bottom"....?
Look into Corporatism or Mercantilism...the American government has provided for and allowed cornering of the markets by large firms by establishing differing laws for corporations than individuals, inacting legislation and taxes which makes it all but impossible for a small business to advance, huge subsidies for larger firms...all in the name of campaign donations for the next election.
In a true Capitalist economy, a fiat currency would not exist - inflation would not exist - fractional reserve banking would not exist - supression of the interest rates would not exist - etc...
All these factors mentioned above help a certain few people (the large corporations and wealthy) while hurting the majority of the people (me / you / middle / lower class).
Our government today is a form of an socialist oligarchy with a corporatist economic system
Actually we do have capitalism. Karl Marx actually coined the term "capitalism" as a pejorative for what we have now in the United States - plutacracy basically.
From your comment, it sounds as if you mean to say "free market" and not "capitalism" - we definitely do not have a free market economy. I find it ironic that those who oppose socialism embrace Marx's pejorative term for the governing economic system they prefer.
When Marx was around the US was as close as ever to Capitalism...money supply, interest rates were controlled by the market - not a central bank (as he wished it to be)
The currency was backed by Gold and not a fractional reserve currency like today (i.e. 1 dollar on the books equals 10 dollars in the economy)
The Government didnt have massive taxation nor regulation on private enterprise; as the Constitution provides.
You know what is very ironic and shows the sole purpose of our Government...
That the ONE economic theory that has warned of EVERY economic downturn, predicted EVERY economic collapse, has offered the means to correct boom and bust within the market place...etc, etc, etc...
Yet...our government still reverts to economic policies that would make Keynes wonder what the hell they are doing!
Why one may ask?...to debase the currency so they spend less but get more.
Not once in the past Century has any President seeked the advice of Austrian economics...the theory that predicted economic collapses all over the World, not just in the US...based on a relativley simple principle of credit control...the lower and longer the credit is supressed - the bigger the bubble...which doesnt hurt our government, as they use the "economic crisis" to pass more legislation, seize more power and blame the "free market" and "lack of regulation"...
China, America, and India are doing the same thing to their people!
autobahn101driversed 5 months ago
@shazzbot007 Here is another Ohio Yank, it is bad. Too many corrupt or lazy people in High postitons. If we're not sold out in some way, we're sold out in another, you know?
Gonegoodforever 11 months ago
@shazzbot007 well said.
RayDandy 1 year ago
@youneac: So you think stealing the value of a currency is a viable economic solution? It's a secret tax that the average person just doesn't understand. I'm not bashing, I give you credit for at least knowing what the Fed is, most people don't but still try to argue their political views. There used to be a death clause in the Constitution for bankers that tried to devalue the currency...they got rid of that real quick lol.
HelpWakePeopleUp 1 year ago
US is not Capitalist, its Fascist (merger of corporate and state), and it sure as hell isn't a free-market. In a free-market economy, the markets set interest rates. In the US, the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and the poeple are too stupid to understand that and they just go and blame it on Capitalism without knowing how the system even works. Your taught in school how it's supposed to work, not how it really works in present time. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a US agency.
HelpWakePeopleUp 1 year ago
So who kicked out the original farmers?
Did these farmers actually own the land?
Was it really those rich land owners, or did the government come in and take it?
KurzLuppii 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
US is not Capitalist, its Fascist (merger of corporate and state), and it sure as hell isn't a free-market. In a free-market economy, the markets set interest rates. In the US, the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and the poeple are too stupid to understand that and they just go and blame it on Capitalism without knowing how the system even works. Your taught in school how it's supposed to work, not how it really works in present time. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a US agency.
DJTmaq 1 year ago 4
In History we will hear that Capitalism fails just as much as Socialism due to fact that evil people will try to things to con and rip people off, in turn needing a government to make thousands of laws to the point to where the only thing we have to eat is Soylent Green. The Love of money is the root of all evil!!
mrbunnylamakins 1 year ago
@lastpoina
what motivates the actions between two individuals?...kindness?...kindness would not have gotten millions of people an iPhone, nor and automobile...
A personal gain - of both parties - motivates the interactions...
iPhone for example...Apple wants money from alot of individuals to use for 1) increasing wealth and 2) further expanding business...if Apple sets the prices too high, they get no money.
People want iPhones...should the price be right, they get the iPhones
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
Trust me...i care nothing for the banking system, nor the bail outs...this isnt Capitalism.
This is Government controlled, regulated and manipulated Corporatism...big donors to the campaign recieve legislation in return that impedes further competition within that sector...see big pharma, automobile, power, computer, bank, wall street, large agriculture, etc...the list goes on.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
Education is a Right?...you adore Socialism, a theory that does not support individual Rights...now you are promoting an Individual Right?...odd.
By the way...your Life is your right...education, should it come from another individuals teachings (i.e. another individuals labor) is not a Right...same thing for Healthcare or any other knowledge/labor intensive service.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
Influence force is the reason America is fucked.
Freedom is necessary for Liberty, Prosperity and Peace...
Voluntary actions are moral, Involuntary actions are not.
Voluntary actions promote freedom and Liberty, involuntary actions do not.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
LAstpiono. Live in cuba then
blist14ant 1 year ago
@lastpoina
You are right...you cannot compare one over the other, because in reality...one doesnt exist...Society.
Society IS a group of Individuals, where ONLY the Individuals decide for themselves...society has no needs for survival, no needs for prosperity, no needs for happiness - only the individuals do.
So...what brings about the Individual needs morally?...a system in which powers the individual to make his own decisions without influence of force, Capitlaism.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
Reality is showing the opposite...really?
No matter how hard you try, you cannot prove todays economic system that of Capitalism...you can call it Capitalism all you want...doesnt make it so.
America is much, much more in line with Socialism than Capitalism.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
Socialism...society needs over the individual needs...where is the morality in this?
Taking ones earned property to give to another who has done nothing to earn this property?...theft...is that moral?
Voluntarism is moral...like donating ones property to those in need.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
You listen to way too much one-sided news...read Capitalism: The unknown ideal by Ayn Rand or read anything from the Mises Institute if you really want to understand Capitalism...dont expect CNN/MSNBC or foreign governments to educate you on the truth...Capitalism is the ONLY economic system that promotes and holds Liberty and Freedom paramount above all.
Remember, both parties recieve a profit in a voluntary trade under Capitalism.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
How misguided are you?
Individual Rights and Property Rights are paramount in Capitalism...
You are acting as if people are opressed without their will...individuals make decisions, individuals sign contracts for work in exchange for pay...if the individual opts to work or $1 per day...it is his/her fault, noone elses
Socialism is based on the abolition of property rights and individual rights, i.e. MY LIFE.
Socialism is immoral, Capitalism is moral...plain and simple.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
In other words, your profit is within the object you purchase as you value that object more than the money spent to acquire the object...
So, you were driven by the profit motive as well.
:)
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@lastpoina
This is obviously false...
When you buy an iPod; you and Apple win...Apple wanted your money more than the iPod and you wanted the iPod more than your money...Capitalism is based on the value of the goods you have versus the goods you wish to exchange for...
Any "losses" that you feel have occured, you have brought on yourself as you could have valued your money more than the object of which you exchanged it for...
helltrackrider 1 year ago
GREAT REPORT !
gringodeltoro1 1 year ago
The government need to leave these people alone...they aren't hurting anyone.
On a wide scale, independent farming will not work. The people have become lazy and too dependent on the government to provide for them. They don't even teach home ec or FFA in the schools and the parents are too busy to teach their children...the generation today have no idea how to sustain or prepare food.
CountryGirlNOhio 1 year ago
@CountryGirlNOhio Absolutely! And when you think about all the big apartment complexes in every major city with tons of people living in them, when a major food crisis happens, what are they gonna do? Even if they wanted to practice living off the land before the SHTF, they can't... they're stuck.
survivingthefuture 1 year ago
@survivingthefuture ....It is a shame and I refuse to put myself in a position like this. We live in the suburbs and that's still too close to the city for me. I was raised up in the old country ways and now it's paying off.
CountryGirlNOhio 1 year ago
All land belong to the elitist and it is "illegal" to occupy it! Elitists make the laws!
MultiSamsoon 1 year ago
OMG thats what I was thinking! it would be way healthier to live on farm than in the city. Safer and Cheeper too I bet, i mean you wouldn't have to buy everything anymore, and thugs and police wouldn't be everywhere. Dude. This is now my dream.
Czartog 1 year ago
fricken love the golashes hot!
EsCurve 1 year ago
@lastpoina thats not true.. real capitaslism (not what we have in america now) creates new values.. because if you produce something (bankers dont produce) you create something with a higher value because of your own skills needed to build it.
real free market capitalism is not the problem.the problem is that our countries are run by bankers. capitalist save money and invest in new businesses (jobs).. wall street is destroying money or better said the value of the money. they do qe2 in usa now:/
BadWithNames123 1 year ago
sure let them have their land and do whatever they want.
but this doesnt work on a world wide scale.. thats not how the world works, farming by hand just isnt efficient anymore.
nobody is crying about the poor stagecoaches who went out of business because they arent efficient anymore?!
the problem is simply that those people dont have any education or skill.. all thats left for them is growing their own food.
sure politics have failed but living in the stone age again is not the answer
BadWithNames123 1 year ago
So who wants to boycot made in Brasil produce?
sgprailfan 1 year ago
These are people the consumers should be supporting. Not the large multinational corporations that essentially exclude the the population by monopolizing a product. This is exactly why buying organic, locally grown food is essential for sustainability. We CAN feed the world by LOCALIZING food productions. Oh, what a world it would be!
KillerCracker69 1 year ago
Capitalism isn't the wrong way. Their problems are due to other reasons besides capitalism. Those who don't produce want to take from those who produce? That doesn't sound fair at all. Sounds like the poor need more charities. Capitalism simply means that if you work hard, and you earn any sort of income, you get to keep it without fear of the government stealing it under the guise of legislation.
DJTmaq 1 year ago
@DJTmaq Yes, but capitalism does become a problem when corporate greed is taken into account. In this sense, capitalism is responsible for much of the corruption in the US and elsewhere.
KillerCracker69 1 year ago 2
@KillerCracker69, Well, i think corporate greed can be a problem in whatever economic principles you practice. I don't believe the fault is capitalism, instead it's an unmoral corrupt attitude of the heart that causes rich greedy men to squash and cheat the lower ranks.
DJTmaq 1 year ago
@DJTmaq Yes, you're right. Greed is certainly not exclusive to a capitalist system. It all starts and ends within the heart.
KillerCracker69 1 year ago
@DJTmaq You just don't really understand what capitalism is. Try reading Karl Marx - he was a genius, and understood before everyone and better then anyone else what capitalism is. Capitalists (big corporations today) will destroy everything around for profit.
asoly1 1 year ago
@asoly1, What? are you kidding me? Are you seriously going to tell me that YOU know what i do and do not understand? I understand capitalism well. But you must not have read my only comment on here. And when you do actually read it, please remember that it's a short comment and not an in depth description of capitalism. But please don't think for a second you can tell me what i do and do not understand.
DJTmaq 1 year ago
The elites plan to depopulate the earth, destroy the middle class & move the surviving to a few huge cities. "Re-wild" most of the US. ITs been a UN plan for over 15 yrs. Bush &Clinton started. Its called "biodiversity" but is really the opposite. Its eugenics or straight depopulation through aerosols, vaccines, & releases of lab virus's like H1N1. Why do you think the Bush family bought 250,000 hectares in Paraguay right next to a huge aquifer next door to Rev Moon 4 yrs ago ?
GrassyKnollTrolls 1 year ago
@GrassyKnollTrolls Sooooo, kind of like the movie avatar? but this might not have such a happy ending?
jemslayer3 1 year ago
@GrassyKnollTrolls, You are absolutely right, you are absolutely right, you are absolutely right. Thank you for posting. "The elites plan to depopulate the earth, destroy the middle class & move the surviving to a few huge cities." and the rest of your comment too. Capitalism isn't at fault, it's the corrupt elites who have designed the collapse of society. Starting with collapsing our dollar.
DJTmaq 1 year ago
US is not Capitalist, its Fascist (merger of corporate and state), and it sure as hell isn't a free-market. In a free-market economy, the markets set interest rates. In the US, the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and the poeple are too stupid to understand that and they just go and blame it on Capitalism without knowing how the system even works. Your taught in school how it's supposed to work, not how it really works in present time. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a US agency.
HelpWakePeopleUp 1 year ago
@HelpWakePeopleUp agreed. i'd add that the US isn't a US agency.
NoLongerDelusional 1 year ago
@HelpWakePeopleUp, you are 100% right. It's not capitalism to blame, it's the global elites designing the fall of america. I'm going to copy your comment and repost it.
DJTmaq 1 year ago
Same-thing happened in Mexico. People wonder why people come here.
damulta 1 year ago
2:43 ding ding ding ding! we have a winner!
capitalism: where human and environmental concern is 2nd to profit.
xchainlinkx 1 year ago 2
Excellent reporting, showing a piece of the world that is never shown by the sensationalist media.
youneac 1 year ago 2
You can't have capitalism without property rights.
PseudoAdministrator 1 year ago
"...uprooted by Capitalism..."
Why is EVERYONE trying to blame Capitalism for everything today?...Name ONE Country where Capitalism exist...you cannot.
Government controlled, manipulated, influenced and managed markets exist; not Capitalism.
helltrackrider 1 year ago 2
@helltrackrider Screw Capitalism, but I wouldn't blame this on Capitalism, that would be VERY stupid.
Sarezh998 1 year ago
@helltrackrider perhaps you should take a minute and look up the meaning of the word 'capitalism' in e.g. the Encyclopedia Britannica.
"Economic system in which most of the means of production are privately owned, and production is guided and income distributed largely through the operation of markets. Capitalism has been dominant in the Western world since the end of mercantilism. It was fostered by the Reformation, which sanctioned hard work and frugality, and by the rise of industry... "
youneac 1 year ago
@youneac
Fairly broad definition...
In a Capitalist economy; the decisions within the economy (i.e. money supply, interest rates, insurance of deposits/loans, demand, supply, etc) are made by the market - not a central planner (aka government or Federal Reserve)
As todays economy is based solely on the interest rates.money supply set by the Federal Reserve and all other decisions are directly influenced by Central Government regulation and legislation - this is not Capitalism.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider I appreciate your view, though I don't concur. Yes, the Fed influences interest rates, but so do banks among themselves, and business and consumer demand. Influence does not equal control. The trends show that the correlation between the Fed's discount rate and the interest rates for e.g. mortgages and savings accounts are only very loosely coupled. Of course, when convenient, the banks will blame the Fed's policies for lousy commercial interest rates, but that's just blame game.
youneac 1 year ago
@youneac
The problem is that the FED supresses the interest rate, not that it regulates it...should it regulate it somewhat appropriately; that would offer less concern to the economic stability...
By supressing it low, other banks have to compete for loans at lower rates as well...having low rates all over the market creates a hazard to the economy by sending the false signal that money is available for borrowing...thus, we get bubbles.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@youneac
Should the millions of daily interactions and actual deposits be setting the interest rates...the rates would be extremely high presently (and this is needed) due to the lack of savings in our economy...there is very little, supply and demand tells you that you have to pay more (interest) in order to borrow principal when the supply is limited.
The FED, by supressing the rates, alters the natural supply / demand correlation that would normally occur.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider I agree with your view on most points. Personally, I view the US economy as beyond salvation, whatever measures are taken.
However, none of this disqualifies western economies as being capitalist. For capitalism there has to be a currency, and a currency has to be backed by something, whether it be gold reserves or treasury bonds. Thus, a certain measure of influence from the controller of that currency is inevitable, even mandatory.
youneac 1 year ago
@youneac
One significant difference...Gold currency preserves Liberty, whereas, IOU Treasury Bonds backed by nothing dismantle Liberty with every extra greenback printed.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider I agree. However, even with a currency backed by gold or other precious materials, there'd have to be a government institution controlling it.
youneac 1 year ago
@youneac
Without the FED...the dot com boom/bust would not have occured, the housing boom/bust would not have occured, the soon to come treasury bond boom/bust will not occur....
not to mention our government would have never been able to achieve a total spent debt + entitlement debt + acquired toxic assets by Fannie/Freddie without the Federal Reserve.
The controlling of the money is more of a threat to Liberty than a standing army. Without the money, you cannot have the army.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider I agree that for most of the economic irregularities, the Fed was part of the problem. Thinking that things would have been better without the Fed, though, is wishful thinking. There'd have been a range of other disruptions. Whether the net effect would have been positive or negative is academic.
youneac 1 year ago
@youneac
I think history has shown that the "disruptions" in a non-central banking economy are very minor when compared to what an all-controlling Central Bank provides...for starters, the Dollar never lost value without a Central Bank....with it, it lost +95% of its value.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider The American model of capitalism has collapsed as it can no longer widen the intake at the bottom of the pyramid. It is also an abusive form of capitalism where the top of the pyramid has an ever exploitative the further down the pyramid one is. Simply put someone has to suffer.
Economy, you, I and the next person will always continue. It is not one and the same, one is a virtual economy of dept for a start and the other a real economy of trade.
Kinkspace 1 year ago
@Kinkspace
Why do you think the "top of the pyramid" has been able to abuse the "bottom"....?
Look into Corporatism or Mercantilism...the American government has provided for and allowed cornering of the markets by large firms by establishing differing laws for corporations than individuals, inacting legislation and taxes which makes it all but impossible for a small business to advance, huge subsidies for larger firms...all in the name of campaign donations for the next election.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider The salvation meme.
Kinkspace 1 year ago
@Kinkspace
In a true Capitalist economy, a fiat currency would not exist - inflation would not exist - fractional reserve banking would not exist - supression of the interest rates would not exist - etc...
All these factors mentioned above help a certain few people (the large corporations and wealthy) while hurting the majority of the people (me / you / middle / lower class).
Our government today is a form of an socialist oligarchy with a corporatist economic system
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider Agreed :)
Kinkspace 1 year ago
@helltrackrider
Actually we do have capitalism. Karl Marx actually coined the term "capitalism" as a pejorative for what we have now in the United States - plutacracy basically.
From your comment, it sounds as if you mean to say "free market" and not "capitalism" - we definitely do not have a free market economy. I find it ironic that those who oppose socialism embrace Marx's pejorative term for the governing economic system they prefer.
FranG1214 1 year ago
@FranG1214
When Marx was around the US was as close as ever to Capitalism...money supply, interest rates were controlled by the market - not a central bank (as he wished it to be)
The currency was backed by Gold and not a fractional reserve currency like today (i.e. 1 dollar on the books equals 10 dollars in the economy)
The Government didnt have massive taxation nor regulation on private enterprise; as the Constitution provides.
No Central Bank...
The list goes on.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@FranG1214
You know what is very ironic and shows the sole purpose of our Government...
That the ONE economic theory that has warned of EVERY economic downturn, predicted EVERY economic collapse, has offered the means to correct boom and bust within the market place...etc, etc, etc...
Yet...our government still reverts to economic policies that would make Keynes wonder what the hell they are doing!
Why one may ask?...to debase the currency so they spend less but get more.
helltrackrider 1 year ago
@helltrackrider
Not once in the past Century has any President seeked the advice of Austrian economics...the theory that predicted economic collapses all over the World, not just in the US...based on a relativley simple principle of credit control...the lower and longer the credit is supressed - the bigger the bubble...which doesnt hurt our government, as they use the "economic crisis" to pass more legislation, seize more power and blame the "free market" and "lack of regulation"...
helltrackrider 1 year ago