@jfsfrnd your a prime example of public education lol . have you ever read any of George Washingtons prayers they seem to be pretty clear to his belief that Jesus was his Lord. Also have you ever noticed that on the supreme court building moses is holding the 10 commandments , or what about the liberty bell you do know it has bible scriptures on it right? or what about the first act of congress it was to finance sending christian missions to the indians ! you knew that right ? ?????????
The 'separation of church and state' clause did not exclude Biblical/Christian influence from government. (That would be idiotic.) It prevented the state from establishing a national denomination (as England did Anglican church). Christianity and the Bible were EXPECTED to guide those who governed America, whether you atheist newcomers want to accept that or not. Note that the clause does not say 'separation of mosque/synagogue/temple and state'? Because those religions were FOREIGN to the U.S
@truthlover72 No distinction seems to be more obvious than that between spiritual and temporal matters. Yet whenever they have been made objects of Legislation, they have clashed and contended with each other, till one or the other has gained the supremacy."
[James Madison in a letter to Thomas Jefferson Oct-Nov 1787]
@jfsfrnd That's because the 'spiritual' cannot be imposed from without via 'legislation'. Nevertheless, true Law embodies the consent of the people guided by it, that the Spirit represented by that Law is the Ideal the nation identifies with and desires to have governing its people from within. Morality, a spiritual reality, cannot be eradicated by law or licentious examples demanding the abolition of all restraint. Everyone has conscience; some healthy, some vile and corrupt. Both are of spirit
@jfsfrnd Regrettably, the 'temporal' minded have usurped the 'spiritual' and gained 'supremacy' in government, so that those only concerned with their power and luxury in this material world have buried the 'spirit' of the original Law under legislation that permits them to satisfy every lust at the expense of those who misunderstand what Christ meant when He said "The meek shall inherit the earth.", to mean the meek lay down, play dead and never stand up to the obvious evil enthroned in state.
@truthlover72 James Madison wrote in his essay "Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments" that "besides the danger of a direct mixture of religion and civil government," there were also indirect dangers relating to the constitutional principle of "separation between Religion and Government."
@jfsfrnd I agree with Madison. However, there's not a man or woman on earth who can be separated from their 'religion', including those who claim not to have any. It is impossible for anyone to live without 'believing' or even 'worshipping' something, and 'religion' is just a system of 'beliefs' and object of 'worship'. 'Believing' in man's ability to solve the problems he is and creates, is to deify man and many rules, rituals, laws and destructions accompany this fallible, erring 'god'.
@jfsfrnd There is an eternity of difference between believing in and being ruled externally by mortal men, and believing in and being ruled from within by the Living Man, Jesus Christ. If everyone on earth were to submit to Jesus Christ personally, NONE of the evils that have devastated mankind and the planet all these millennia would have been perpetrated. It is men following their own SELVES and the lusts of the SELF that have perverted and destroyed what every decent heart longs for in life.
@truthlover72 ''If everyone on earth were to submit to Jesus Christ personally, NONE of the evils that have devastated mankind and the planet all these millennia would have been perpetrated''
@jfsfrnd Ok, based on the way your comments are going, it's apparent that you just want to argue and I'm not at all interested. BELIEVE what you want. You are as much an unreasonable religious fanatic as any other adherent to a man-made religion. Enjoy being your own god. But you will face the True and Living God one day soon. You shall be known as SPAM in my account.
@truthlover72 Where does the ten commandments quote comes from. Cite the document. You can't because it's not real. SPAM in your account because I'm asking you for proof?
@jfsfrnd Here's the problem with your comments. You keep saying I 'quoted' somebody when I did NOT 'quote' somebody. Pleas READ. I said the Ten Commandments were the foundation of the nations Laws and that evidence of this also exists in the numerous plaques and engravings of the Ten Commandments on government buildings. Where do you find a 'quote' in any of that. When I 'quote' somebody, I 'QUOTE' them. If you're going to side-wind words, I can't be bothered. Sharpen your ego on someone else.
@jfsfrnd I could accept your 'apologies' if I BELIEVED they were sincere. But I don't because you continue to do as you have done. You obviously have no familiarity with the concept of 'repentance' which is supposed to precede & give worth to 'apologies'. You demand I cite 'quotes' I did not make & I'm weary of pointing this out to you. You are either dense or consciously deceitful and deliberately instigating confusion as a diversion tactic. Who in their right mind would want to talk with you?
@jfsfrnd We ALL have to repent. The only sinless Man Who had no need to repent is Jesus Christ, and I KNOW you are NOT Him. You are absolutely in sync with my better judgement that told me not to bother trying to engage in any reasonable discussion with you, ergo, it's back to the SPAM folder for you, for good.
@truthlover72 You don't want reasonable discussion. You want to force everyone to believe in your religious dogma. We have religious freedom in this country - freedom to believe or not believe. You will never have a Christian Nation without a good fight. Good luck to you.
@jfsfrnd I've never read David Barton's own book & again I point out to you that I did not claim to be 'quoting' anyone. Are all atheists as blind as you are? Or is it just the way the Truth gets twisted once it penetrates the ear & tries to find a place in the brain? Or is the atheist mind allergic to any Truth it has already decided is invalid because it challenges the atheists religion of choice? You're SPAMMED because you're just argumentative and will side-wind away from the point. No go.
@jfsfrnd I'm certain that God can tell the difference, if there is any, between you and an atheist. But from my limited exposure to your BELIEFS, you fit the profile of 'atheistic', eager to exclude the God of the Bible from the foundation of America and from being the Influence America NEEDS Him to be today, if the U.S. A. is to avoid destruction. Whatever other 'god' you adhere to is no god at all which still renders you a paganized atheist. There's no difference in the end product.
@truthlover72 Just because I'm not a practicing Christian doesn't make me an athiest. I'm more of a Deist actually, except I don't suscribe to the notion that God created this place and left man on his own, but that man forgot how to communicate with him(?).
You're hopeless. Have you ever read anything by Jefferson and Madison?
@jfsfrnd Your ignorance about God is the fodder from which you have invented your own image and call it 'God'. God never abandoned man but has, as anyone who has read the Scriptures/Bible would KNOW, been in perpetual communion with every generation of man wherein He found sometimes only a few to hear, believe and obey, working with Him to fulfill His promise and plan to redeem fallen mankind. In these last days He has spoken to us through His Son, Jesus Christ. Are you listening to Him?
@truthlover72 I never said that I believe that God abandoned man. I said that some Deists believe that. They have a right to their beliefs too. It has been the last days since Paul spoke about it. You really need to stop pushing your personal religious beliefs on others.
@jfsfrnd Hey everybody, I have a video response that’s related to the material. less than 5mins Titled: “Christian Nation Question" I would appreciate your comments at the video. It is for a class project.
I can’t link here, but if you search “Christian Nation Question” it should be the fourth item found.
@jfsfrnd 'Organized religion', whether Roman Catholic, Protestant, Islam, Judaism, Buddism, etc., has been one of many 'man-made' problems, and none of these constitutes a living relationship with the living Jesus Christ and walking in communion with and obedience to His Spirit in this world. The best leaders any nation could have would be those who dilligently and continually submit to Jesus Christ as the Ruler of their lives, spirit, soul and body. Otherwise, men automatically submit to satan.
@jfsfrnd Madison also emphasised the need for a national moral constitution based upon the Law of the God of the 'Bible', established as The Standard by which the new Christian Nation be built, flourish and prosper. Madison was not 'schizo' but distinguished between 'religion' & true spiritual submission to the God Who wrote the Ten Commandments, which adorn many a U.S. government building to this day. Madison didn't want an atheistic society or ever secular, both of which are religious systems.
@jfsfrnd Do note that I didn't claim to be QUOTING the man, merely surmmarising from the various other statements he made exhibiting his value for spiritual morality in the governing of the nation. BTW, Madison wasn't the only 'founding father', nor was he among the original Pilgrims who set out to establish a 'Christian Nation'. Venture to research beyond a single example and merely the quotes that appeal most to your own 'moral values'. I have my own homework to do.
We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.
Attributed to Madison in The Myth of Separation Between Church and State (1989) by David Barton, he has since declared it a misattribution, after Madison scholars reported that this statement appears nowhere in the writings or recorded utterances of James Madison.[13]
@jfsfrnd The first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence declares:(I "QUOTE") "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with one another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitles them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
@jfsfrnd ALL 56 SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION AGREED, OBVIOUSLY, including Madison. It is the God of the Bible acknowledged by these signers to be the God Who created nature, including mankind, & established the LAWS by which nature, including mankind, must be governed for there to be order in which peace and prosperity could be the experience of all, for the preservation of all. Regardless of individual brands, denominational or creed, the signers all acknowledged the God of the Bible, no other.
@jfsfrnd ALL 56 signers of the American Declaration invoked the "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God", incorporated a legal standard of freedom into the forms of government that would follow. The theory of freedom adopted was simply that God's law was supreme and gave freedom. No 'man' can give another 'man' freedom or 'rights'. To reject God in favour of having another fallible, corruptible mortal 'god' rule in God's place will inevitably result in the despotism and serfdom the U.S. has today.
@jfsfrnd The PEOPLE who settled America were CHRISTIANS intent on establishing a CHRISTIAN NATION. Either the founding fathers were known or esteemed to be in AGREEMENT with the PEOPLE on this score, or the founding fathers were deceptive infiltrators posing as CHRISTIAN, in which case, NOTHING that any of them said or signed is valid because they were all TRAITORS to the PEOPLE who have LAWFUL claim to the nation. The 'fathers' are a mere handful of men to REPRESENT the mind of the PEOPLE.
@truthlover72 It doesn't matter if the first people who came here were intent on founding a Christian Nation. By the time the US Constitution was written, it was decided that this would be a nation of religions freedom, and not only meant for Christians.
David Barton is lying about my church, the United Church of Christ. He is breaking one of the ten commandments by lying, he has set himself up as judge and jury. He lies about our country being just a Christian nation, many of our founding fathers were Diests and that's why they separated church and state because they knew that someday, someone like Barton would come along and try to inflict his religion into our day to day government.
No, he's lying... go search up the Christian documentary here on youtube recently posted called "The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers" which goes through multiple letters of the FF, their influences, and also exposes how Barton quote mines and takes out of context.
The FF were no more Christian than Obama, who is also quoted saying "I believe in Jesus Christ as my redeemer"---we know because of his other views/actions, that's not true in a Biblical sense.
This guy is a master liar . . . I have been a member of this church all my life, and the UCC does NOT support abortion, but we support that this is a matter between the woman and her doctor! Also we do not judge Homosexuals the way the religious right does, we don't judge people period. Our church is open to ALL! We judge no one, we practice the teachings of Jesus!
@King100Joe : "kressink, = satanic anti-american creature. there is no crime in killing it." -- I will be reporting this post, it contains a death threat.
3. Dominionists endorse theocratic visions, insofar as they believe that the Ten Commandments, or "biblical law," should be the foundation of American law, and that the U.S. Constitution should be seen as a vehicle for implementing Biblical principles.
1. "Dominionists celebrate Christian nationalism, in that they believe that the United States once was, and should once again be, a Christian nation. In this way, they deny the Enlightenment roots of American democracy.
2. Dominionists promote religious supremacy, insofar as they generally do not respect the equality of other religions, or even other versions of Christianity.
For those people who always cry for seperation of church and state. My advice to them is, be careful for what you wish for. They might want to ask someone who lived under such policies. Someone who might lived in one of the former Soviet republic or maybe nazi Germany.
Wow, lol. Thank God, I'm a Christian. I just can't imagine being as hateful and negative as these commenters are. It's funny how you guys think that being against gay marriage makes us homophobic, or because we don't like the president we are racist. I have atheist, gay, jewish, friends and family. Even some Asian religions that I don't remember the name of. But I don't go around talking to them like this. The only catagory you people fall into is mean, close minded and rude. God Bless!
this is so stupid... i dont really support Obama but barton just hates him cuz hes not a stupid christian!! let the man believe and practice what he wants, barton, and you believe and practice whatever you want and give him some respect!! the US is not a freakin christian nation so shut up you stupid homophobe
As far as this Barton lunatic, He's a closeted homosexual. Nothing wrong with being gay. I just hate closeted ones because they are the cruelest. They are the cruelest because it directs the attention away from them. They, including the Governor and AG of South Carolina are meaner to gays so people will say, they can't be gay and hate them so much. Yes they can, they are the worse gay bashers of all.
Who gives a good F**k whether the country was a christian nation or not. They held slaves for nearly 300 years. So it all means absolutely nothing to me. Millions of African slaves were treated worst then dogs and million were killed on their journey here (in the hull of ships packed like sardines) and once they got here. So you can argue about the intent of your founding fathers, but devils can call themselves whatever they want. Whatever they were, i know they were evil. Nearly all had slaves.
Before the American revolution against Great Britain, it was a British colony. After the revolution, the country was governed by Deist, not Christians. Barton would have been on the side of Great Britain during the revolution. In other words, he and all these religious fanatics would have been traitors. He's and the republican who are now taking money from foreign countries to influence our elections, get rid of the middle class and send more jobs overseas are still traitors.
Mr Barton , what a pice of scum ! In a way is good to show him as he is , a liar and a homophobic attached to stupid man made religious principles ... What a crap !!!
Agreed ... Mr. Barton is revealing his ignorance of the UCC. I doubt if he's ever been to a UCC service....not much difference than a Methodist or Presbyterian or Baptist service, really. And, Mr. Barton, please have the common decency to show SOME respect, if not for the man, but for the office, by referring to the President of the United States as "The President" or "President Obama" and not simply down your nose as simply "Barack."
I suspect that if David Barton had ever attended a UCC church, he would not be telling these obvious distortions of truth. I'm not sure if he is an obvious liar or if he is just too stupid to realize he is being used.
Nice job Mr. David Barton. Way to pick up your cross and speak the truth. Dr. Charles Stanley is right when he says that the only reason the naysayers hate Jesus is that it interferes with their agenda. God Bless and keep marching!
@Manster68 this guy is a master liar . . . George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were both Deist, they were not Christian. George Washington was also a Mason.
@ginico55- the majority of our first 10 US presidents were Deists. It blows my mind how much work the Ultra paranoid Christian Right do to DENY that fact.
The very first words of the 1st Ammendment are about Freedom of Religion & Government NOT allowed to make one. Yet guys like Barton love to twist it that Seperation of Church & State is NOT in it.
But its inherently implied.
So he loves the bible, Show me where in the 10 Commandments, the exact words that say we should NOT LIE?
@ginico55 Jefferson was probably a little more than a Deist. He founded a church that met in the Capitol building in DC for almost 100 years that both houses of congress attended. I think that also shows what he believed about separation of church and state
First CHRIST NEVER LIED , second , CHrist would enver denounce his funumental conerstone in AMERICA. and say its not founded on Chirstianity and STILL a Christian Nation.
@NEONAVALON Actually, America is founded on individual liberty. The original constitution never mentioned a god, religion, Christianity, or Jesus Christ - just as intended.
@TouchOfGreatness The original Declaration draft mentioned a Theistic God, and several places throughout it more about God was added. Also in the Constitution you have the protection of religious freedom and the year of our Lord stamped in it and this after they ALL prayed together prior to drafting the founding documents. You can try to revise and make up history according to your false secularist assumptions, but that doesn't make your assumptions true.
You can stick your head in the sand but the Founderss who signed the Declaration of Independence clearly mentions "natures God," "endowed by their Creator" and "protection of Divine Providence" so to think after they miraculously defeated the powerful British Empire they believed they did it themselves is nonsense. George Washington said over 60 times that there would be no America without God's intervention so believe what you chose but the facts are the facts.
@sdt1944 : I am sorry, I missed your references to Jesus or Christianity. Oh, because there are NONE. George Washington is known to have said Jesus' name once. Once.
We can't make our way to Heaven through works. It is through grace. I think I understand what you mean; we should be Christ-like. I just wanted to clarify, is all.
(New International Version)
Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
Barton demonstrates his fanatical, conservative, partisan nature. And he claims to be teaching the objective "truth" in American history??? Thank god for Obama and Sonya Sotomayor.
@jfsfrnd your a prime example of public education lol . have you ever read any of George Washingtons prayers they seem to be pretty clear to his belief that Jesus was his Lord. Also have you ever noticed that on the supreme court building moses is holding the 10 commandments , or what about the liberty bell you do know it has bible scriptures on it right? or what about the first act of congress it was to finance sending christian missions to the indians ! you knew that right ? ?????????
saint27573 1 month ago
''Rabid secular'' = following IRS law.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@Josiahgangsta12 Proof? Barton is rewriting history by misquoting the documents of the founders. No one has to follow your God.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
The 'separation of church and state' clause did not exclude Biblical/Christian influence from government. (That would be idiotic.) It prevented the state from establishing a national denomination (as England did Anglican church). Christianity and the Bible were EXPECTED to guide those who governed America, whether you atheist newcomers want to accept that or not. Note that the clause does not say 'separation of mosque/synagogue/temple and state'? Because those religions were FOREIGN to the U.S
truthlover72 9 months ago
@truthlover72 No distinction seems to be more obvious than that between spiritual and temporal matters. Yet whenever they have been made objects of Legislation, they have clashed and contended with each other, till one or the other has gained the supremacy."
[James Madison in a letter to Thomas Jefferson Oct-Nov 1787]
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd That's because the 'spiritual' cannot be imposed from without via 'legislation'. Nevertheless, true Law embodies the consent of the people guided by it, that the Spirit represented by that Law is the Ideal the nation identifies with and desires to have governing its people from within. Morality, a spiritual reality, cannot be eradicated by law or licentious examples demanding the abolition of all restraint. Everyone has conscience; some healthy, some vile and corrupt. Both are of spirit
truthlover72 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@truthlover72 Ya know. This is all your opinion, not fact.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Regrettably, the 'temporal' minded have usurped the 'spiritual' and gained 'supremacy' in government, so that those only concerned with their power and luxury in this material world have buried the 'spirit' of the original Law under legislation that permits them to satisfy every lust at the expense of those who misunderstand what Christ meant when He said "The meek shall inherit the earth.", to mean the meek lay down, play dead and never stand up to the obvious evil enthroned in state.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 James Madison wrote in his essay "Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments" that "besides the danger of a direct mixture of religion and civil government," there were also indirect dangers relating to the constitutional principle of "separation between Religion and Government."
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd I agree with Madison. However, there's not a man or woman on earth who can be separated from their 'religion', including those who claim not to have any. It is impossible for anyone to live without 'believing' or even 'worshipping' something, and 'religion' is just a system of 'beliefs' and object of 'worship'. 'Believing' in man's ability to solve the problems he is and creates, is to deify man and many rules, rituals, laws and destructions accompany this fallible, erring 'god'.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd There is an eternity of difference between believing in and being ruled externally by mortal men, and believing in and being ruled from within by the Living Man, Jesus Christ. If everyone on earth were to submit to Jesus Christ personally, NONE of the evils that have devastated mankind and the planet all these millennia would have been perpetrated. It is men following their own SELVES and the lusts of the SELF that have perverted and destroyed what every decent heart longs for in life.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 ''If everyone on earth were to submit to Jesus Christ personally, NONE of the evils that have devastated mankind and the planet all these millennia would have been perpetrated''
Really.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Ok, based on the way your comments are going, it's apparent that you just want to argue and I'm not at all interested. BELIEVE what you want. You are as much an unreasonable religious fanatic as any other adherent to a man-made religion. Enjoy being your own god. But you will face the True and Living God one day soon. You shall be known as SPAM in my account.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 Where does the ten commandments quote comes from. Cite the document. You can't because it's not real. SPAM in your account because I'm asking you for proof?
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Here's the problem with your comments. You keep saying I 'quoted' somebody when I did NOT 'quote' somebody. Pleas READ. I said the Ten Commandments were the foundation of the nations Laws and that evidence of this also exists in the numerous plaques and engravings of the Ten Commandments on government buildings. Where do you find a 'quote' in any of that. When I 'quote' somebody, I 'QUOTE' them. If you're going to side-wind words, I can't be bothered. Sharpen your ego on someone else.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 Okay it was Barton's quote. My apologies.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd I could accept your 'apologies' if I BELIEVED they were sincere. But I don't because you continue to do as you have done. You obviously have no familiarity with the concept of 'repentance' which is supposed to precede & give worth to 'apologies'. You demand I cite 'quotes' I did not make & I'm weary of pointing this out to you. You are either dense or consciously deceitful and deliberately instigating confusion as a diversion tactic. Who in their right mind would want to talk with you?
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 I don't have to repent. Then don't talk with me.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd We ALL have to repent. The only sinless Man Who had no need to repent is Jesus Christ, and I KNOW you are NOT Him. You are absolutely in sync with my better judgement that told me not to bother trying to engage in any reasonable discussion with you, ergo, it's back to the SPAM folder for you, for good.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 You don't want reasonable discussion. You want to force everyone to believe in your religious dogma. We have religious freedom in this country - freedom to believe or not believe. You will never have a Christian Nation without a good fight. Good luck to you.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@truthlover72 The quote comes from David Barton's own book because he made it up.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd I've never read David Barton's own book & again I point out to you that I did not claim to be 'quoting' anyone. Are all atheists as blind as you are? Or is it just the way the Truth gets twisted once it penetrates the ear & tries to find a place in the brain? Or is the atheist mind allergic to any Truth it has already decided is invalid because it challenges the atheists religion of choice? You're SPAMMED because you're just argumentative and will side-wind away from the point. No go.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 I'm not an atheist.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd I'm certain that God can tell the difference, if there is any, between you and an atheist. But from my limited exposure to your BELIEFS, you fit the profile of 'atheistic', eager to exclude the God of the Bible from the foundation of America and from being the Influence America NEEDS Him to be today, if the U.S. A. is to avoid destruction. Whatever other 'god' you adhere to is no god at all which still renders you a paganized atheist. There's no difference in the end product.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 Just because I'm not a practicing Christian doesn't make me an athiest. I'm more of a Deist actually, except I don't suscribe to the notion that God created this place and left man on his own, but that man forgot how to communicate with him(?).
You're hopeless. Have you ever read anything by Jefferson and Madison?
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Your ignorance about God is the fodder from which you have invented your own image and call it 'God'. God never abandoned man but has, as anyone who has read the Scriptures/Bible would KNOW, been in perpetual communion with every generation of man wherein He found sometimes only a few to hear, believe and obey, working with Him to fulfill His promise and plan to redeem fallen mankind. In these last days He has spoken to us through His Son, Jesus Christ. Are you listening to Him?
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 I never said that I believe that God abandoned man. I said that some Deists believe that. They have a right to their beliefs too. It has been the last days since Paul spoke about it. You really need to stop pushing your personal religious beliefs on others.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Hey everybody, I have a video response that’s related to the material. less than 5mins Titled: “Christian Nation Question" I would appreciate your comments at the video. It is for a class project.
I can’t link here, but if you search “Christian Nation Question” it should be the fourth item found.
thorthistle03 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd 'Organized religion', whether Roman Catholic, Protestant, Islam, Judaism, Buddism, etc., has been one of many 'man-made' problems, and none of these constitutes a living relationship with the living Jesus Christ and walking in communion with and obedience to His Spirit in this world. The best leaders any nation could have would be those who dilligently and continually submit to Jesus Christ as the Ruler of their lives, spirit, soul and body. Otherwise, men automatically submit to satan.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 ''men automatically submit to satan''
Satan isn't real.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Madison also emphasised the need for a national moral constitution based upon the Law of the God of the 'Bible', established as The Standard by which the new Christian Nation be built, flourish and prosper. Madison was not 'schizo' but distinguished between 'religion' & true spiritual submission to the God Who wrote the Ten Commandments, which adorn many a U.S. government building to this day. Madison didn't want an atheistic society or ever secular, both of which are religious systems.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 ''a national moral constitution based upon the Law of the God of the 'Bible'. Where did he say that?
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Do note that I didn't claim to be QUOTING the man, merely surmmarising from the various other statements he made exhibiting his value for spiritual morality in the governing of the nation. BTW, Madison wasn't the only 'founding father', nor was he among the original Pilgrims who set out to establish a 'Christian Nation'. Venture to research beyond a single example and merely the quotes that appeal most to your own 'moral values'. I have my own homework to do.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 So where does ten commandments statement come from? The burden of proof is on you since you quoted it.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
Misattributed
We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@truthlover72
Attributed to Madison in The Myth of Separation Between Church and State (1989) by David Barton, he has since declared it a misattribution, after Madison scholars reported that this statement appears nowhere in the writings or recorded utterances of James Madison.[13]
Nice try.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@truthlover72 If the quote regarding the ten commandments is true then cite which document it comes from.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd The first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence declares:(I "QUOTE") "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with one another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitles them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 Again it's not the God of the Bible. Jefferson wrote that. I don't think anyone knows exactly what he meant by ''nature's god''.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd ALL 56 SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION AGREED, OBVIOUSLY, including Madison. It is the God of the Bible acknowledged by these signers to be the God Who created nature, including mankind, & established the LAWS by which nature, including mankind, must be governed for there to be order in which peace and prosperity could be the experience of all, for the preservation of all. Regardless of individual brands, denominational or creed, the signers all acknowledged the God of the Bible, no other.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 If the God of the Bible was so important to them, then why didn't they include him(?) in the US Consititution?
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd ALL 56 signers of the American Declaration invoked the "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God", incorporated a legal standard of freedom into the forms of government that would follow. The theory of freedom adopted was simply that God's law was supreme and gave freedom. No 'man' can give another 'man' freedom or 'rights'. To reject God in favour of having another fallible, corruptible mortal 'god' rule in God's place will inevitably result in the despotism and serfdom the U.S. has today.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 Yeah but that's not the God of the Bible nor is it the citation regarding the ten commandments.
That's two strikes against you.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd The PEOPLE who settled America were CHRISTIANS intent on establishing a CHRISTIAN NATION. Either the founding fathers were known or esteemed to be in AGREEMENT with the PEOPLE on this score, or the founding fathers were deceptive infiltrators posing as CHRISTIAN, in which case, NOTHING that any of them said or signed is valid because they were all TRAITORS to the PEOPLE who have LAWFUL claim to the nation. The 'fathers' are a mere handful of men to REPRESENT the mind of the PEOPLE.
truthlover72 8 months ago
@truthlover72 It doesn't matter if the first people who came here were intent on founding a Christian Nation. By the time the US Constitution was written, it was decided that this would be a nation of religions freedom, and not only meant for Christians.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
The propagandist -- certainly not a Constitutional historian -- spreads another layer of lies. A waste of time.
mackenziedrake 10 months ago
One of the reasons that I hate these right wing Christian phonies like Barton is even if someone else is a Xtian, it isn't the right type for them.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
David Barton is lying about my church, the United Church of Christ. He is breaking one of the ten commandments by lying, he has set himself up as judge and jury. He lies about our country being just a Christian nation, many of our founding fathers were Diests and that's why they separated church and state because they knew that someday, someone like Barton would come along and try to inflict his religion into our day to day government.
ginico55 11 months ago
Barton needs to be straightened out. He's a rabid fool.
lancethrustworthy 11 months ago 2
David Barton is so cool! He really opens our eyes to things we've taken for granted and awakens us!
WWCons 11 months ago
@WWCons Amen, your so right(-: My And Our GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST BLESS You My Friend(-:!
JCWarriorjrf 11 months ago
@WWCons
No, he's lying... go search up the Christian documentary here on youtube recently posted called "The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers" which goes through multiple letters of the FF, their influences, and also exposes how Barton quote mines and takes out of context.
The FF were no more Christian than Obama, who is also quoted saying "I believe in Jesus Christ as my redeemer"---we know because of his other views/actions, that's not true in a Biblical sense.
droptozro 10 months ago 3
This guy is a master liar . . . I have been a member of this church all my life, and the UCC does NOT support abortion, but we support that this is a matter between the woman and her doctor! Also we do not judge Homosexuals the way the religious right does, we don't judge people period. Our church is open to ALL! We judge no one, we practice the teachings of Jesus!
ginico55 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
@King100Joe : "kressink, = satanic anti-american creature. there is no crime in killing it." -- I will be reporting this post, it contains a death threat.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
...continued:
3. Dominionists endorse theocratic visions, insofar as they believe that the Ten Commandments, or "biblical law," should be the foundation of American law, and that the U.S. Constitution should be seen as a vehicle for implementing Biblical principles.
Sums up David Barton perfectly!
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
1. "Dominionists celebrate Christian nationalism, in that they believe that the United States once was, and should once again be, a Christian nation. In this way, they deny the Enlightenment roots of American democracy.
2. Dominionists promote religious supremacy, insofar as they generally do not respect the equality of other religions, or even other versions of Christianity.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
This guy is a complete liar! Liarsforjesus (.) com
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
For those people who always cry for seperation of church and state. My advice to them is, be careful for what you wish for. They might want to ask someone who lived under such policies. Someone who might lived in one of the former Soviet republic or maybe nazi Germany.
ericlebo 1 year ago
@Watchmenz Type into Youtube: US Capitol Tour with David Barton
1000hpHONDA 1 year ago
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1000hpHONDA 1 year ago
You will care when you are facing God.
pigletvicki 1 year ago
@pigletvicki This guy is a complete liar! Liarsforjesus (.) com
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
who cares
nsdtr01 1 year ago
Wow, lol. Thank God, I'm a Christian. I just can't imagine being as hateful and negative as these commenters are. It's funny how you guys think that being against gay marriage makes us homophobic, or because we don't like the president we are racist. I have atheist, gay, jewish, friends and family. Even some Asian religions that I don't remember the name of. But I don't go around talking to them like this. The only catagory you people fall into is mean, close minded and rude. God Bless!
FujinKage 1 year ago
@FujinKage David Barton is a complete liar! Liarsforjesus (.) com
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
this is so stupid... i dont really support Obama but barton just hates him cuz hes not a stupid christian!! let the man believe and practice what he wants, barton, and you believe and practice whatever you want and give him some respect!! the US is not a freakin christian nation so shut up you stupid homophobe
BringBackRealMusic37 1 year ago
As far as this Barton lunatic, He's a closeted homosexual. Nothing wrong with being gay. I just hate closeted ones because they are the cruelest. They are the cruelest because it directs the attention away from them. They, including the Governor and AG of South Carolina are meaner to gays so people will say, they can't be gay and hate them so much. Yes they can, they are the worse gay bashers of all.
replyform 1 year ago
Who gives a good F**k whether the country was a christian nation or not. They held slaves for nearly 300 years. So it all means absolutely nothing to me. Millions of African slaves were treated worst then dogs and million were killed on their journey here (in the hull of ships packed like sardines) and once they got here. So you can argue about the intent of your founding fathers, but devils can call themselves whatever they want. Whatever they were, i know they were evil. Nearly all had slaves.
replyform 1 year ago
Before the American revolution against Great Britain, it was a British colony. After the revolution, the country was governed by Deist, not Christians. Barton would have been on the side of Great Britain during the revolution. In other words, he and all these religious fanatics would have been traitors. He's and the republican who are now taking money from foreign countries to influence our elections, get rid of the middle class and send more jobs overseas are still traitors.
replyform 1 year ago
Mr Barton , what a pice of scum ! In a way is good to show him as he is , a liar and a homophobic attached to stupid man made religious principles ... What a crap !!!
mi55eros 1 year ago
David Barton is a perfect example of why we need separation of church and state.
silentfades 1 year ago
Agreed ... Mr. Barton is revealing his ignorance of the UCC. I doubt if he's ever been to a UCC service....not much difference than a Methodist or Presbyterian or Baptist service, really. And, Mr. Barton, please have the common decency to show SOME respect, if not for the man, but for the office, by referring to the President of the United States as "The President" or "President Obama" and not simply down your nose as simply "Barack."
pjweaver19805 1 year ago
I suspect that if David Barton had ever attended a UCC church, he would not be telling these obvious distortions of truth. I'm not sure if he is an obvious liar or if he is just too stupid to realize he is being used.
cmcclarin 1 year ago
Nice job Mr. David Barton. Way to pick up your cross and speak the truth. Dr. Charles Stanley is right when he says that the only reason the naysayers hate Jesus is that it interferes with their agenda. God Bless and keep marching!
Manster68 1 year ago 2
@Manster68 WELL SAID
wheebill 1 year ago
@Manster68 this guy is a master liar . . . George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were both Deist, they were not Christian. George Washington was also a Mason.
ginico55 1 year ago 8
@ginico55- the majority of our first 10 US presidents were Deists. It blows my mind how much work the Ultra paranoid Christian Right do to DENY that fact.
The very first words of the 1st Ammendment are about Freedom of Religion & Government NOT allowed to make one. Yet guys like Barton love to twist it that Seperation of Church & State is NOT in it.
But its inherently implied.
So he loves the bible, Show me where in the 10 Commandments, the exact words that say we should NOT LIE?
stone34 11 months ago
@ginico55 Jefferson was probably a little more than a Deist. He founded a church that met in the Capitol building in DC for almost 100 years that both houses of congress attended. I think that also shows what he believed about separation of church and state
davidhudman 7 months ago
@Manster68 Amen Manster, i completely, i love David Barton And Charles Standley, My And Our GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST BLESS Us All(-:!
JCWarriorjrf 11 months ago
What an amazing deceiver! Look up 'David Barton Lies About Chris Rodda.'
af4k 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
David Barton is a FRAUD! The US Federal State was not, IN ANY SENSE, founded on the christian religion.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
@kressink How so is Barack like Jesus? Please share...
mdbarnes21 1 year ago
So this is the fanatic Glen Beck has teamed up with. Well like attracts like in the Christian Taliban
hollygolightly66 2 years ago
Obama is Christ like , lol , zzzzzz,zzzzzzz
First CHRIST NEVER LIED , second , CHrist would enver denounce his funumental conerstone in AMERICA. and say its not founded on Chirstianity and STILL a Christian Nation.
NEONAVALON 2 years ago
@NEONAVALON Actually, America is founded on individual liberty. The original constitution never mentioned a god, religion, Christianity, or Jesus Christ - just as intended.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago 2
@TouchOfGreatness It is amazing how so many of the founders were devout Christians, which is clear in their writings and their affiliations.
mdbarnes21 1 year ago 2
@TouchOfGreatness The original Declaration draft mentioned a Theistic God, and several places throughout it more about God was added. Also in the Constitution you have the protection of religious freedom and the year of our Lord stamped in it and this after they ALL prayed together prior to drafting the founding documents. You can try to revise and make up history according to your false secularist assumptions, but that doesn't make your assumptions true.
Dominick7 1 year ago
@NEONAVALON The constitution does not mention God, Jesus, or the Bible. So what are you talking about?
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
@TouchOfGreatness
You can stick your head in the sand but the Founderss who signed the Declaration of Independence clearly mentions "natures God," "endowed by their Creator" and "protection of Divine Providence" so to think after they miraculously defeated the powerful British Empire they believed they did it themselves is nonsense. George Washington said over 60 times that there would be no America without God's intervention so believe what you chose but the facts are the facts.
sdt1944 1 year ago
@sdt1944 : I am sorry, I missed your references to Jesus or Christianity. Oh, because there are NONE. George Washington is known to have said Jesus' name once. Once.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
We can't make our way to Heaven through works. It is through grace. I think I understand what you mean; we should be Christ-like. I just wanted to clarify, is all.
(New International Version)
Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
myron73 2 years ago
Barton demonstrates his fanatical, conservative, partisan nature. And he claims to be teaching the objective "truth" in American history??? Thank god for Obama and Sonya Sotomayor.
TouchOfGreatness 2 years ago