Chen Man Ching STARTED with Yang Cheng Fu at 18 as he was very sickly. By 25 he was acknowledged as a master. This business of him being defeated at 18 means nothing. I could say more about it but just to say there is a lot of rubbish in the tai chii world. Huang from Malaysia was another CMC student. Check him out.
Wow, a lot of the comments here are beautiful and insightful and beneficial..... and then a lot of them are like a badly dubbed badly acted cock-fight in an old kung-fu film...."My knowledge will beat your inferior knowledge, i studied under the man who studied under the man... your man and his knowledge are crap" sounds like the same shit that kept tai chi enshrouded in mystery for generations.. Less ego, more practice... apologies for any judgements made... but to me, tai chi is a lot about
@MrElowan (contd.) tai chi is a lot about balance.. and I find a lot of these comments to be without balance... this is only my opinion.. Blessings to all players/practitioners, and to me in my path..
Wow, a lot of the comments here are beautiful and insightful and beneficial..... and then a lot of them are like a badly dubbed badly acted cock-fight in an old kung-fu film...."My knowledge will beat your inferior knowledge, i studied under the man who studied under the man... your man and his knowledge are crap" sounds like the same shit that kept tai chi enshrouded in mystery for generations.. Less ego, more practice... apologies for any judgements made... but to me, tai chi is a lot about
Master Tung Hu Ling was incredible. You can feel the intensity his intention when he wait for his opponent. He was like cat playing with a mouse. This video is the best illustration of what is Tui Shou on youtube.
He's truly amazing...but i hope people understand that he has a sense of peng, out ward presure and that he's just not some soft cotton ball...alot pf tai chi players forget about peng and think its about just yielding...but with yielding there still is peng. you can see it when he moves. this sifu was amazing because he's not using some chi ball where he's throwing it across from a room...theres real skill here.
Spot on. There's to much tofu taiji out there. It's good to hear someone talking about the 'hard' (I know it's not quite the right word) side of taijiquan.
right on bro...so you know what i mean...tai chi is balanced and in each movement theres both "hard" and "soft"...in every movement there should always be peng and good structure if you want to be able to use ground power but the looseness or "softness" that they talk about is in the joints and the kua so they cant find your center of mass and push you around. Theres tons more to it than just yielding. I just dont want the martial aspect of tai qi to be phased out by tofu taiqi.
Oh yeah... I'm with you. It's a crying shame about the standard of Taijiquan of the masses. There are too many people learning a form and then going off to teach, without having any idea what they are actually teaching, which then dilutes the art with crap (for the want of a better word). Taiji is a mix of hard and soft, not just a soft art, the hint is in the Yin AND Yang. You can't have one without the other. One action has an equal and opposite reaction.
What I like about Tung Hu Ling here is (1) His movements are graceful and soft. (2)He seems to provide no resistance to his student to push against---like pushing against a hanging piece of paper. (3) His push is clean, with no strain. You could be flying before you can detect he is trying to do something. A person who uses clumsy force would be easier to detect and thwart (4) He pushes with control, like skimming a rock over water. Student doesn't get hurt. (5)his freeform hand and footwork
An average demo? I think you missed-out on a lot of things here. Practice push hands for another 3-5 years and look at the video again. I would said superd timing, listening and neutralizing skills been demo by Tung Huling here.
wait doens't tung hu ling related to tung ying chieh in anyway? If that's the case, no wonder his tai chi is so good, because it is from the direct descendant of yang cheng fu. Tung ying chieh and cheng man ching were kungfu brothers.
That is true for Taijiquan fighting, too. these guys aren't fighting though. They are demonstrating a leverage principle. Shoving someone that far is good when you are fighting multiple opponents or pushing someone in front of moving traffic, but in a single person fight they would use different strategy.
The style is redundant. I would not go waving like that in a real fight. I will give you a very good feel for contact of a fight and close combat. But this is of course bullshit the student let's himself be guided by the teacher and as reward for that he gets pushed or clutched to the ground.
I agree to the extent that some guys practice push hands only and as such have no real experience with fighitng. But these excercises give impeccable sensitivity rooting, and equilibrium as well as whole body skills. In real fighting, it helps alot with wrestling, striking and imbalancing my opponent by "feeling" them out as opposed to forcing my strength on them. If ANYTHING it's about the principles...NOT the fighting techniques. Real push hands has locks and throws.
Tung style is good Taijiquan with a good reputation. You can't realistically compare with other styles here because this is a 2 dimensional medium. The only way to "prove" anything doesn't involve Youtube, it involves actual Kung Fu, physical contact. "Keyboard Fu" doesn't mean a thing.
ok loudmouths. a bit ego based? If you were pushing with Tung, how would you fare? put your comments where your skill level lands. now, would that be fair? so if you haven't any skill, you haven't room to comment.
Hmmm? Granted THL is probably not in his prime here and is pushing with a VERY co-operative student, but based on what I'm seeing HERE, THL would get ripped apart by any of the current top-push hands competitors from Taiwan or Malaysia! (cont.)
To cklvscw: As for myself, I'd LOVE to a go around with Tung. But hey, I've only been practicing Tai Chi for 30 years, playing in "Chinatown" tournaments where they throw you bodily to the ground to score points. But you've got those whole extra 3-years on me so I guess you'll always be better! I defer!
Hypnosis, I've studied under a student of Master Cheng, so it could be said I have a vested interest, but even I have to admit that Tung Hu Ling's structure and applications are superior to Cheng's.
Tung's structure is superior to Cheng's. Really? Cheng could easily withstand the force of 4 men all pushing in different directions on one arm. Could THL even approach this level of structural integrity? Look harder, brother.
Wow. I see how that puts you in a position to make such a statement. I once studied basketball under a student of Michael Jordan. I must say, Larry Bird was much better than Michael Jordan. Mike
The same level body weight, TAI the JI master can win, the body weight difference are very many, TAI the JI master still had the possibility which won, if were the life and death duel, calculated the UFC contestant was allowed to kill him, also had to pay the serious price, perhaps could in killed in front of him the UFC contestant already die, TAI the JI master frequently also met some unusual murder technologies, these technologies certainly were not decided by the bodily strong and the weak.
Tung Huling defeated Cheng Man Ching in push hands when he was only 18 yrs old. Can see from here his dong jin is so good, smooth, relax, precise and powerful.
Nice try! I've studied with direct students of both Cheng Man Ching and Tung Ying Chieh and have never heard this story! Huling's push hands is very good, but he was never the expert Man Ching was at that skill. This very clip even proves that if you have eye to see it.
This story is commonly told among students of Tung family. The push hand took place in front of Tung Yin Chieh and Tung Huling did defeated Cheng Man Ching and he was only 18 then. The story is found in Tung's website too. FYI..I am also disciple of Tung Kai Ying.
Are you talking about Cheng Man Ching? If so, I think he only studied with him for less than 3 years and he was not one of Cheng Fu's best students as he liked to brag about according to TT Liang. One of the only reasons he is as famous as he is, is beacause he took taiji to the USA.
yeah thats what i understand myself as well. Tung ying chie was a top student of yang cheng fu and all challengers had to fight ying chie if they wanted to challenge. I dont understand why those guys in the other posts dont think that the tung family is in the same class as cheng man ching. Those guys must be the tofu tai qi fellas. What i heard about cheng man ching is the same as you. I respect what he's done in bringing tai qi to the US but tung ying chie was awsome.
I pushed hands with cheng man ching and you cannot believe how strong he was. His push was light a bolt of lightening and NO ONE could move him an inch. This was in New York. I trained with a Muay Thai world champ and a 6th dan Aikido master and Cheng was stronger than both.
@taiqi37 I heard from a Chinese gentleman that Chen Man Ching challenged Tung Ying Chieh. Tung said push with my son Hu Ling. It was over very quickly and Chen lost. Of course he was younger then and his tai chi must have improved since then.
ANd then he beat the HULK and SPIDERMAN using only his pajama top!!! LOL!!! Not taking anything away from this guy... but he's not in Cheng's class. Not even close... Mike
Interesting, my sifu's husband traces his ynag style to yang cheng fu. Very powerful version of yang. Unfortuantely i learned the modern prc version of yang lu chan before i met y sifu and leanred a little of this version.
Chen Man Ching STARTED with Yang Cheng Fu at 18 as he was very sickly. By 25 he was acknowledged as a master. This business of him being defeated at 18 means nothing. I could say more about it but just to say there is a lot of rubbish in the tai chii world. Huang from Malaysia was another CMC student. Check him out.
siberiamoscow 2 months ago
Don't people get that these are just drills?!
bovinicide 4 months ago
Do it to me... GJC
ClygarPro 8 months ago
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Wow, a lot of the comments here are beautiful and insightful and beneficial..... and then a lot of them are like a badly dubbed badly acted cock-fight in an old kung-fu film...."My knowledge will beat your inferior knowledge, i studied under the man who studied under the man... your man and his knowledge are crap" sounds like the same shit that kept tai chi enshrouded in mystery for generations.. Less ego, more practice... apologies for any judgements made... but to me, tai chi is a lot about
MrElowan 1 year ago
@MrElowan (contd.) tai chi is a lot about balance.. and I find a lot of these comments to be without balance... this is only my opinion.. Blessings to all players/practitioners, and to me in my path..
MrElowan 1 year ago
Wow, a lot of the comments here are beautiful and insightful and beneficial..... and then a lot of them are like a badly dubbed badly acted cock-fight in an old kung-fu film...."My knowledge will beat your inferior knowledge, i studied under the man who studied under the man... your man and his knowledge are crap" sounds like the same shit that kept tai chi enshrouded in mystery for generations.. Less ego, more practice... apologies for any judgements made... but to me, tai chi is a lot about
MrElowan 1 year ago
It's nice to see some real softness, some real neutralization.
geezerizing 1 year ago
Wow!!! Great video...It's crazy because you can tell that his student is trying really hard.
TheChemicalBassist 1 year ago
This is not Tung Hu Ling, but his brother Tung Jun Ling
junjiefang 1 year ago
Master Tung Hu Ling was incredible. You can feel the intensity his intention when he wait for his opponent. He was like cat playing with a mouse. This video is the best illustration of what is Tui Shou on youtube.
taijibagua04 1 year ago
that`s one lucky student...to feel peng jin, ting jin, flow, silk-reeling through contact with someone as skilled as this, that`s rare
ghitiudragos 2 years ago
nowadays,taichi,bagua,,,or other chinese kungfu is jus for "practice,,show,,or healthy.." mayb u can say is jus for fun..in the k1 fighting...sorry..
reipohmee 2 years ago
Really good footage, you could see what was going on.
smalltins 3 years ago
the sifu's action is good,but too rude.
reipohmee 3 years ago
im sure hell remember to be polite when someone comes at him with a knife :]
mel956 2 years ago 2
He's truly amazing...but i hope people understand that he has a sense of peng, out ward presure and that he's just not some soft cotton ball...alot pf tai chi players forget about peng and think its about just yielding...but with yielding there still is peng. you can see it when he moves. this sifu was amazing because he's not using some chi ball where he's throwing it across from a room...theres real skill here.
mdub2000 3 years ago
Spot on. There's to much tofu taiji out there. It's good to hear someone talking about the 'hard' (I know it's not quite the right word) side of taijiquan.
littlecannon 3 years ago
right on bro...so you know what i mean...tai chi is balanced and in each movement theres both "hard" and "soft"...in every movement there should always be peng and good structure if you want to be able to use ground power but the looseness or "softness" that they talk about is in the joints and the kua so they cant find your center of mass and push you around. Theres tons more to it than just yielding. I just dont want the martial aspect of tai qi to be phased out by tofu taiqi.
mdub2000 3 years ago
Oh yeah... I'm with you. It's a crying shame about the standard of Taijiquan of the masses. There are too many people learning a form and then going off to teach, without having any idea what they are actually teaching, which then dilutes the art with crap (for the want of a better word). Taiji is a mix of hard and soft, not just a soft art, the hint is in the Yin AND Yang. You can't have one without the other. One action has an equal and opposite reaction.
littlecannon 3 years ago
It's as good a word as any. 'A needle wrapped in cotton' is the metaphor I've often heard.
7137271 2 years ago
What I like about Tung Hu Ling here is (1) His movements are graceful and soft. (2)He seems to provide no resistance to his student to push against---like pushing against a hanging piece of paper. (3) His push is clean, with no strain. You could be flying before you can detect he is trying to do something. A person who uses clumsy force would be easier to detect and thwart (4) He pushes with control, like skimming a rock over water. Student doesn't get hurt. (5)his freeform hand and footwork
jaredHawaii 3 years ago
An average demonstration of push hands, good for practicing tai chi, but not for self defence.
8906754 4 years ago
An average demo? I think you missed-out on a lot of things here. Practice push hands for another 3-5 years and look at the video again. I would said superd timing, listening and neutralizing skills been demo by Tung Huling here.
hiucf 3 years ago
wait doens't tung hu ling related to tung ying chieh in anyway? If that's the case, no wonder his tai chi is so good, because it is from the direct descendant of yang cheng fu. Tung ying chieh and cheng man ching were kungfu brothers.
NTNGUYEN 4 years ago
That is true for Taijiquan fighting, too. these guys aren't fighting though. They are demonstrating a leverage principle. Shoving someone that far is good when you are fighting multiple opponents or pushing someone in front of moving traffic, but in a single person fight they would use different strategy.
Loyaute 4 years ago 2
This student is parrying in his attack!
Chinese form are very nice and can really help you train your body but in fighting you should not be confined to a certain style or movement.
F00dTube 4 years ago
The style is redundant. I would not go waving like that in a real fight. I will give you a very good feel for contact of a fight and close combat. But this is of course bullshit the student let's himself be guided by the teacher and as reward for that he gets pushed or clutched to the ground.
F00dTube 4 years ago
I agree to the extent that some guys practice push hands only and as such have no real experience with fighitng. But these excercises give impeccable sensitivity rooting, and equilibrium as well as whole body skills. In real fighting, it helps alot with wrestling, striking and imbalancing my opponent by "feeling" them out as opposed to forcing my strength on them. If ANYTHING it's about the principles...NOT the fighting techniques. Real push hands has locks and throws.
cloud0123 4 years ago
I couldn't agree more with you. Push hands is a very good technique for practicing the feel of interaction and the cadans between two fighters.
F00dTube 4 years ago
Tung style is good Taijiquan with a good reputation. You can't realistically compare with other styles here because this is a 2 dimensional medium. The only way to "prove" anything doesn't involve Youtube, it involves actual Kung Fu, physical contact. "Keyboard Fu" doesn't mean a thing.
Loyaute 4 years ago
ok loudmouths. a bit ego based? If you were pushing with Tung, how would you fare? put your comments where your skill level lands. now, would that be fair? so if you haven't any skill, you haven't room to comment.
from tai chi man 33 years of practice..
cklvscw 4 years ago 4
Hmmm? Granted THL is probably not in his prime here and is pushing with a VERY co-operative student, but based on what I'm seeing HERE, THL would get ripped apart by any of the current top-push hands competitors from Taiwan or Malaysia! (cont.)
taiqi37 4 years ago
To cklvscw: As for myself, I'd LOVE to a go around with Tung. But hey, I've only been practicing Tai Chi for 30 years, playing in "Chinatown" tournaments where they throw you bodily to the ground to score points. But you've got those whole extra 3-years on me so I guess you'll always be better! I defer!
taiqi37 4 years ago
Few can hope to attain the level of skill that either master held... especially while debating on youtube when you should be doing your form. =P
drummachinessuck 4 years ago
Hypnosis, I've studied under a student of Master Cheng, so it could be said I have a vested interest, but even I have to admit that Tung Hu Ling's structure and applications are superior to Cheng's.
Egg09Seed 4 years ago
Hi Egg,
Tung's structure is superior to Cheng's. Really? Cheng could easily withstand the force of 4 men all pushing in different directions on one arm. Could THL even approach this level of structural integrity? Look harder, brother.
taiqi37 4 years ago
Wow. I see how that puts you in a position to make such a statement. I once studied basketball under a student of Michael Jordan. I must say, Larry Bird was much better than Michael Jordan. Mike
HYPNOSISWORKS123 4 years ago
or search huang sheng shyan for a diff spelling.
andymach33 4 years ago
the blue guys has no roots
jimanHK 4 years ago
er I think better watch Huang Sheng Xian and Wu style push hands on youtube then recomment here.
JianChuanTaiChi 4 years ago
When's he gonna enter Pride or UFC? This guy'd kill!
culbriz 5 years ago
The same level body weight, TAI the JI master can win, the body weight difference are very many, TAI the JI master still had the possibility which won, if were the life and death duel, calculated the UFC contestant was allowed to kill him, also had to pay the serious price, perhaps could in killed in front of him the UFC contestant already die, TAI the JI master frequently also met some unusual murder technologies, these technologies certainly were not decided by the bodily strong and the weak.
killgm 5 years ago
Tung Huling defeated Cheng Man Ching in push hands when he was only 18 yrs old. Can see from here his dong jin is so good, smooth, relax, precise and powerful.
hiucf 5 years ago
Nice try! I've studied with direct students of both Cheng Man Ching and Tung Ying Chieh and have never heard this story! Huling's push hands is very good, but he was never the expert Man Ching was at that skill. This very clip even proves that if you have eye to see it.
taiqi37 4 years ago
This story is commonly told among students of Tung family. The push hand took place in front of Tung Yin Chieh and Tung Huling did defeated Cheng Man Ching and he was only 18 then. The story is found in Tung's website too. FYI..I am also disciple of Tung Kai Ying.
hiucf 4 years ago
how long was cheng a student of yang cheng fu?
mdub2000 3 years ago
Are you talking about Cheng Man Ching? If so, I think he only studied with him for less than 3 years and he was not one of Cheng Fu's best students as he liked to brag about according to TT Liang. One of the only reasons he is as famous as he is, is beacause he took taiji to the USA.
littlecannon 3 years ago
yeah thats what i understand myself as well. Tung ying chie was a top student of yang cheng fu and all challengers had to fight ying chie if they wanted to challenge. I dont understand why those guys in the other posts dont think that the tung family is in the same class as cheng man ching. Those guys must be the tofu tai qi fellas. What i heard about cheng man ching is the same as you. I respect what he's done in bringing tai qi to the US but tung ying chie was awsome.
mdub2000 3 years ago
I pushed hands with cheng man ching and you cannot believe how strong he was. His push was light a bolt of lightening and NO ONE could move him an inch. This was in New York. I trained with a Muay Thai world champ and a 6th dan Aikido master and Cheng was stronger than both.
siberiamoscow 2 years ago 3
@siberiamoscow - check out "The Kwoon" on facebook
sifucarr 2 months ago
@taiqi37 I heard from a Chinese gentleman that Chen Man Ching challenged Tung Ying Chieh. Tung said push with my son Hu Ling. It was over very quickly and Chen lost. Of course he was younger then and his tai chi must have improved since then.
starfire0007 2 months ago
ANd then he beat the HULK and SPIDERMAN using only his pajama top!!! LOL!!! Not taking anything away from this guy... but he's not in Cheng's class. Not even close... Mike
HYPNOSISWORKS123 4 years ago
too bad the whole form was reduced to 24
i wanted to at least learn the 55 forms
taichixone 5 years ago
Thanks a lot.
cfG21 5 years ago
Interesting, my sifu's husband traces his ynag style to yang cheng fu. Very powerful version of yang. Unfortuantely i learned the modern prc version of yang lu chan before i met y sifu and leanred a little of this version.
cfG21 5 years ago
What style of taichi does he do?
cfG21 5 years ago