Debating religion over the Internet is futile. It is probably a good mental excercise if you find someone somewhat intelligent to discuss with, but normally it is useless. Religious people are not good at debating.
I can assure you , your brilliant chinese mind will not treat me with dissrespect because you love Yehovah the burning bush and I want you to know about paleo hebrew and especialy want you to understand the situation with nebuchanezers dream.
I want you to know how babylon lied and tried to destroy the hebrew language and turn it in to arabic block script.
I will help make you a mighty weapon against America , aka babylon the great.
@azkeyz I am not Chinese, and with all due respect, your remarks are not very coherent. They are also completley off-topic with regard to this video.
As the moderator, I want to emphasize that off-topic remarks are discouraged, and beyond a certain point, not allowed. I'm sure that you can understand why.
I have to make sure you are exposed to paleo hebrew and the torah and the tenach so that you are not lost in christian paganism.
I'm a nazarite , you must be chinese because you're so smart.
I want you to understand christianity is babylonian greco roman pagan vatican invented figment of the imagiation , a hijacking of the nazarite faith we believe yeshua is the true king and preist model and messiah.
study hebrew so that you can't be shamed on the net or in any other place.
@azkeyz No, I'm not Chinese, and with all due respect, I think that remark is kinda crass.
Also, please confine your remarks to the content of this video. This video is about dealing with Internet hostility. The topics you raised are interesting, but they are almost entirely unrelated.
It is so true that most people have not been taught to think in a logical way. Even some of the most intelligent people.
They tend to believe what they have heard in the mainstream media, including t.v., without thinking it all through. Trying to get them to use, much less learn, a little logic
in 500 characters is more than a daunting task. But maybe it makes a dent. I used to be just like some of them, smug and offensive in my ignorance.
I agree, its far too easy to hide behind the anonymity provided by the internet and post comments that are nothing short of ugly. Even though Im a secular humanist I really respect how this fellow seems to be trying to create an open and honest dialogue.
The words "the Trinity" isnt actually in the Bible either, but I would agree with the idea behind this doctrine clearly is. In the same way the actual words "Separation of Church and State" may not be in there, but the idea behind them is. The founding fathers were sufficiently far sighted enough to perceive the threat posed by the interference of religion in civil affairs on one hand, and government in religion on the other.
The founding fathers were not threatened by the fair exchange of religious ideas in a public forum, rather by the establishment of a particular religion by the state.
Pearls before swine...sounds a little arrogant. It would consider it dishonest if someone said that there wasn't anything written in the bible that would cause great skepticism. LIke Balaams talking donkey. I wouldn't even try to intelectually defend the bible. You can't. You have to accept the whole thing on faith, otherwise it becomes to mentally straining to defend such things, even to oneself.
It does, which is why I explained why the Bible uses such an extreme metaphor.
"I wouldn't even try to intelectually defend the bible. You can't. You have to accept the whole thing on faith..."
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with that view. There must ultimately come a step of faith; however, Peter did command us to always be prepared with an answer for the hope within us (1 Peter 3:15).
It's kinda useless to debate someone if they don't know the basics of philosophy...like how to form an argument. Red hearing, straw man..that kinda stuff. Otherwise it just starts to sound like an old couple fighting. lol...I also would never debate ANYONE if they say that you can't question the premise of the debate, or have verifiable coherent defintions of terminology.
I love the hypocrisy, in the best of worlds for christians, people would at this moment be burning on stakes for hearasy. In the same way christians burnd people in the past or todays IRAN. In Islam it´s ilegal to convert from Islam, in a few countries is punishable with death and it wasn´t to long ago it was ilegal in Europe to convert from christianity, or even to another christian sect.
So give me on good reason why you wont start burning people on stakes if you christians get in power.
Jesus said "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you" Matt 5:44. Whoever calls themselves a christian and threatens to personally harm a nonchristian is not truly following what Jesus says to do. "Christians" are not our example, people will always let you down. Jesus is our example, look at what HE says and what HE does, then decide why anyone would hate or reject Him. there is no good reason to
I just read your post, and I have to ask why would 'us Christians' want to get into power? I am a christian and I'm completely against the merging of church and state. As for other Christians that may not take up my viewpoint, name one verse in the bible that says we should force our beliefs on others through political power or ANY kind of way?
The internet is difficult because people hide behind anonymity. Most people if you talk to them in person you can have a mutually engaging debate however the internet definitely allows more outrageous behavior. I have spoken to atheist in person and they are often polite, patient and inquisitive. Those same people though I believe would be less balanced if they were given the ability to speak behind a veil.
I don't even bother with internet debate any more these days, though from time to time I do entertain it. I prefer face on face debates for the reasons you outlined.
HenryKeiper: I agree. For the last four months I have been partaking in a debate on another site and it has been absolutely fruitless. They make self-defeating statements and think that's going to refute what I say.
Thank you grammastola for these videos. They have been a good help at realizing that I shouldn't be wasting time with swine and dogs. ;)
Let me expand on my earlier comment. Some people devote hours of each day to the Internet, but not all of us do. Adults with careers, church duties, and family obligations typically have substantial lives outside the Internet, and these matters often take priority.
WADR, when a critic complains that a moderator does not immediately post or respond to their comments, that strongly suggests that someone's itching for a debate. In turn, that's a pretty good sign of an unproductive use of time.
I find this video highly ironic. I wrote a polite and concise comment to your video, "So-called 'unintelligent design,' part 1".
In response you quickly dismissed me, saying that I did not bother to understand your video.
I politely responded saying that, yes, I did understand your video. On the other hand you did not understand my point. I clarified my intent and provided a reference.
You did not allow my clarification to be posted, and left your dismissive misconstruing of my post.
dysis9, you are jumping the gun. It has only been one day since you posted your reply. ONE DAY. As I explained at great length in this video, I do not live on the Internet. I understand that some people feel I should respond to them immediately, but I don't live that way.
I stand by my evaluation. I do think that you've been more polite than most, but to be honest, I can already see that your discussion is headed off the rails. WADR, this criticism of yours already suggests that.
Let's say I grant your point that God exists, which God are we talking about? Is it your Christian God, Horus, Krishna, Thor, Allah, etc. Let's assume that the universe through evidence not proof may be fine-tuned and may suggest a fine tuner, to go from a Deist to a Theist is impossible leap of faith for any rational person to assert. If it were true, then God allows millions of years of suffering, which would make God callous and capricious. That is an unlikely proposition.
"Let's say I grant your point that God exists, which God are we talking about?"
Y'know, in this very video, I talked about how some YouTubers simply wish to argue without making any attempt to understand what they are responding to. Your post is a perfect example of that.
In this vid, I made *NO* attempt to defend God's existence. Rather, I was addressing the issue of Internet hostility. And how do you respond? By castigating me because I did not defend the existence of any specific God!
Just to follow up... I don't wish to be overly harsh in responding to critical comments like these. At the same time though, it's rather frustrating that I devoted an entire video to this topic, illustrating how many critics on the 'net offer virulent, quarrelsome, off-topic responses... only to have someone attack the video with a quarrelsome and off-topic response!
As I said in the vid, such a reply strongly indicates that further discussion will be unfruitful. I won't waste time with it.
It is amazing to me, but some people pride themselves in amassing a large list of haters. For a Christian who takes the high road morally, spiritually and ethically,then the dynamic of light pushing back the darkness will eventually manifest itself. Whatever a persons viewpoint of authority, we all must pray for wisdom and humility.
I find it difficult to show grace or love in comments on YouTube. My main goal is to be objective and not get personal or stereotype certain people (even though other people get personal and stereotypes sometimes fit). Unfortunately, I do not always succeed. I know Christians are a minority on YT, but unlike atheists we seldom back one another. Too many Christians are virtually incapable of making good arguments. Thanks for posting.
I hear you. There's so much immaturity and poor argumentation from atheists (sometimes believers) who are not interested in listening and fail to educate themselves about what they are supposed to be refuting. The last comment I got when responding to a belligerent unbeliever concerning the role of sacrifice, he comes back with "What, does your God want vestal virgins, too?" I mean, what do you DO with such obvious ignorance and obstinacy?
I just feel so 'tired' of arguing on the Internet. The best thing to do if you don't like arguing or you don't like the berating comments that some people make, is to just put them on ignore.
It should then piss them off that you're acting as though they're not even there.
Folks, you're embarassing me. :) I don't want to talk about myself, but I don't want sound like a party-pooper or a killjoy either. Like I said, danged if I do, danged if I don't.
Debating religion over the Internet is futile. It is probably a good mental excercise if you find someone somewhat intelligent to discuss with, but normally it is useless. Religious people are not good at debating.
LegionarioCruel 4 months ago
I can assure you , your brilliant chinese mind will not treat me with dissrespect because you love Yehovah the burning bush and I want you to know about paleo hebrew and especialy want you to understand the situation with nebuchanezers dream.
I want you to know how babylon lied and tried to destroy the hebrew language and turn it in to arabic block script.
I will help make you a mighty weapon against America , aka babylon the great.
Unless you're afraid your wing chun skillz suck.
azkeyz 1 year ago
@azkeyz I am not Chinese, and with all due respect, your remarks are not very coherent. They are also completley off-topic with regard to this video.
As the moderator, I want to emphasize that off-topic remarks are discouraged, and beyond a certain point, not allowed. I'm sure that you can understand why.
grammastola 1 year ago
I have to make sure you are exposed to paleo hebrew and the torah and the tenach so that you are not lost in christian paganism.
I'm a nazarite , you must be chinese because you're so smart.
I want you to understand christianity is babylonian greco roman pagan vatican invented figment of the imagiation , a hijacking of the nazarite faith we believe yeshua is the true king and preist model and messiah.
study hebrew so that you can't be shamed on the net or in any other place.
azkeyz 1 year ago
@azkeyz No, I'm not Chinese, and with all due respect, I think that remark is kinda crass.
Also, please confine your remarks to the content of this video. This video is about dealing with Internet hostility. The topics you raised are interesting, but they are almost entirely unrelated.
grammastola 1 year ago
Don't caste your pearls before pigs (don't waste time with fools..)..
DrStevenz 2 years ago
although some christians are not so good in debating win or loss the truth they believe will not change.
tadomega 2 years ago
I miss your videos ! :)
SavedTru8 2 years ago
It is so true that most people have not been taught to think in a logical way. Even some of the most intelligent people.
They tend to believe what they have heard in the mainstream media, including t.v., without thinking it all through. Trying to get them to use, much less learn, a little logic
in 500 characters is more than a daunting task. But maybe it makes a dent. I used to be just like some of them, smug and offensive in my ignorance.
LoricaLady 2 years ago
This video is so true. Some people online (especially on youtube) are just ... unreal.
MetaphysicsAddict 2 years ago
I agree, its far too easy to hide behind the anonymity provided by the internet and post comments that are nothing short of ugly. Even though Im a secular humanist I really respect how this fellow seems to be trying to create an open and honest dialogue.
MrHappyHumanist 2 years ago
Thank you for sharing.
adznruses 2 years ago
Most people are just sophist who only care about winning the argument, in a true argument both have to allow themselves to be corrected to truth.
Pdrum2 2 years ago
I agree with you. God bless you.
dontletithappen 2 years ago
thanks so much for being honest and humble!
breezyspreezy 2 years ago 2
There is NO such thing as "Separation of Church and State" in the U.S. Constitution.
LimbaughTheMoron 2 years ago
The words "the Trinity" isnt actually in the Bible either, but I would agree with the idea behind this doctrine clearly is. In the same way the actual words "Separation of Church and State" may not be in there, but the idea behind them is. The founding fathers were sufficiently far sighted enough to perceive the threat posed by the interference of religion in civil affairs on one hand, and government in religion on the other.
MrHappyHumanist 2 years ago
The founding fathers were not threatened by the fair exchange of religious ideas in a public forum, rather by the establishment of a particular religion by the state.
morrlafm 2 years ago
Pearls before swine...sounds a little arrogant. It would consider it dishonest if someone said that there wasn't anything written in the bible that would cause great skepticism. LIke Balaams talking donkey. I wouldn't even try to intelectually defend the bible. You can't. You have to accept the whole thing on faith, otherwise it becomes to mentally straining to defend such things, even to oneself.
InFromTheVoid 2 years ago
"Pearls before swine...sounds a little arrogant."
It does, which is why I explained why the Bible uses such an extreme metaphor.
"I wouldn't even try to intelectually defend the bible. You can't. You have to accept the whole thing on faith..."
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with that view. There must ultimately come a step of faith; however, Peter did command us to always be prepared with an answer for the hope within us (1 Peter 3:15).
grammastola 2 years ago
It's kinda useless to debate someone if they don't know the basics of philosophy...like how to form an argument. Red hearing, straw man..that kinda stuff. Otherwise it just starts to sound like an old couple fighting. lol...I also would never debate ANYONE if they say that you can't question the premise of the debate, or have verifiable coherent defintions of terminology.
InFromTheVoid 2 years ago
I love the hypocrisy, in the best of worlds for christians, people would at this moment be burning on stakes for hearasy. In the same way christians burnd people in the past or todays IRAN. In Islam it´s ilegal to convert from Islam, in a few countries is punishable with death and it wasn´t to long ago it was ilegal in Europe to convert from christianity, or even to another christian sect.
So give me on good reason why you wont start burning people on stakes if you christians get in power.
swedisagnostic 2 years ago
Jesus said "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you" Matt 5:44. Whoever calls themselves a christian and threatens to personally harm a nonchristian is not truly following what Jesus says to do. "Christians" are not our example, people will always let you down. Jesus is our example, look at what HE says and what HE does, then decide why anyone would hate or reject Him. there is no good reason to
SkullRocKetS 2 years ago
I just read your post, and I have to ask why would 'us Christians' want to get into power? I am a christian and I'm completely against the merging of church and state. As for other Christians that may not take up my viewpoint, name one verse in the bible that says we should force our beliefs on others through political power or ANY kind of way?
damianGray 2 years ago
A lot use a diversion form discussion that's irrevelant. It needs to be moderated because they don't want to play by the rules.
Pdrum2 2 years ago
Did you know NO ONE WAS EVER BURNED AT THE STAKE in america? the Puritans killed like a dozen witches total and none were burned.
Its heresy my dear.
MrEpictetus 2 years ago
The internet is difficult because people hide behind anonymity. Most people if you talk to them in person you can have a mutually engaging debate however the internet definitely allows more outrageous behavior. I have spoken to atheist in person and they are often polite, patient and inquisitive. Those same people though I believe would be less balanced if they were given the ability to speak behind a veil.
rhymeskill 3 years ago 2
god bless u brother always in jesus name keep on doing your part for the kingdom of god
leeroy956 3 years ago 2
This is a tough issue because some people on the internet seem to forget that they are talking to another human being. Anyway, good video!
MetaphysicsAddict 3 years ago 5
Thanks, bro.
Proverbs 18: 4 "The words of a man's mouth are deep waters,
The wellspring of wisdom is a flowing brook."
and Proverbs 19:19 "A man of great wrath will suffer punishment, for if you rescue him, you will have to do it again."
(verse 11 of chp. 19, is also appropriate)
The wisdom of Proverbs I wish all people would read ... and read daily. God's word is cleansing.
Merry Christmas, believers~!
TheSolidGloryisJesus 3 years ago
I don't even bother with internet debate any more these days, though from time to time I do entertain it. I prefer face on face debates for the reasons you outlined.
HenryvKeiper 3 years ago
HenryKeiper: I agree. For the last four months I have been partaking in a debate on another site and it has been absolutely fruitless. They make self-defeating statements and think that's going to refute what I say.
Thank you grammastola for these videos. They have been a good help at realizing that I shouldn't be wasting time with swine and dogs. ;)
CmRoddy 3 years ago
Let me expand on my earlier comment. Some people devote hours of each day to the Internet, but not all of us do. Adults with careers, church duties, and family obligations typically have substantial lives outside the Internet, and these matters often take priority.
WADR, when a critic complains that a moderator does not immediately post or respond to their comments, that strongly suggests that someone's itching for a debate. In turn, that's a pretty good sign of an unproductive use of time.
grammastola 3 years ago
I find this video highly ironic. I wrote a polite and concise comment to your video, "So-called 'unintelligent design,' part 1".
In response you quickly dismissed me, saying that I did not bother to understand your video.
I politely responded saying that, yes, I did understand your video. On the other hand you did not understand my point. I clarified my intent and provided a reference.
You did not allow my clarification to be posted, and left your dismissive misconstruing of my post.
dysis9 3 years ago
dysis9, you are jumping the gun. It has only been one day since you posted your reply. ONE DAY. As I explained at great length in this video, I do not live on the Internet. I understand that some people feel I should respond to them immediately, but I don't live that way.
I stand by my evaluation. I do think that you've been more polite than most, but to be honest, I can already see that your discussion is headed off the rails. WADR, this criticism of yours already suggests that.
grammastola 3 years ago
Let's say I grant your point that God exists, which God are we talking about? Is it your Christian God, Horus, Krishna, Thor, Allah, etc. Let's assume that the universe through evidence not proof may be fine-tuned and may suggest a fine tuner, to go from a Deist to a Theist is impossible leap of faith for any rational person to assert. If it were true, then God allows millions of years of suffering, which would make God callous and capricious. That is an unlikely proposition.
sisque16 3 years ago
"Let's say I grant your point that God exists, which God are we talking about?"
Y'know, in this very video, I talked about how some YouTubers simply wish to argue without making any attempt to understand what they are responding to. Your post is a perfect example of that.
In this vid, I made *NO* attempt to defend God's existence. Rather, I was addressing the issue of Internet hostility. And how do you respond? By castigating me because I did not defend the existence of any specific God!
grammastola 3 years ago
Just to follow up... I don't wish to be overly harsh in responding to critical comments like these. At the same time though, it's rather frustrating that I devoted an entire video to this topic, illustrating how many critics on the 'net offer virulent, quarrelsome, off-topic responses... only to have someone attack the video with a quarrelsome and off-topic response!
As I said in the vid, such a reply strongly indicates that further discussion will be unfruitful. I won't waste time with it.
grammastola 3 years ago
Peter gives us good advice on this matter.
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. BUT DO THIS WITH GENTLENESS AND RESPECT
1 Peter 3:15 (NIV)
When we respond to personal attacks in this way and still do not produce meaningful dialog, then Solomons words prevail:
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you will be like him yourself.
Prov 26:4 (NIV)
Keep up the good work!
jwlthe4th 3 years ago
Good job sir.
philos71 3 years ago
Thanks for the advice
XiaoFury 3 years ago
It is amazing to me, but some people pride themselves in amassing a large list of haters. For a Christian who takes the high road morally, spiritually and ethically,then the dynamic of light pushing back the darkness will eventually manifest itself. Whatever a persons viewpoint of authority, we all must pray for wisdom and humility.
tommax26 3 years ago
I find it difficult to show grace or love in comments on YouTube. My main goal is to be objective and not get personal or stereotype certain people (even though other people get personal and stereotypes sometimes fit). Unfortunately, I do not always succeed. I know Christians are a minority on YT, but unlike atheists we seldom back one another. Too many Christians are virtually incapable of making good arguments. Thanks for posting.
mayartay 3 years ago
I hear you. There's so much immaturity and poor argumentation from atheists (sometimes believers) who are not interested in listening and fail to educate themselves about what they are supposed to be refuting. The last comment I got when responding to a belligerent unbeliever concerning the role of sacrifice, he comes back with "What, does your God want vestal virgins, too?" I mean, what do you DO with such obvious ignorance and obstinacy?
maggoli67 3 years ago
Some people can be just pricks.
I just feel so 'tired' of arguing on the Internet. The best thing to do if you don't like arguing or you don't like the berating comments that some people make, is to just put them on ignore.
It should then piss them off that you're acting as though they're not even there.
RossPK81 3 years ago 5
Good message, you lift weights?
Shenalmighty 3 years ago
He is kinda buff isn't he?
jarbon5 3 years ago
"He is kinda buff isn't he?"
Um, I'm not sure if I should be approving these comments or not.... :) (It is a moderated video, as I mentioned.)
Danged if you do, danged if you don't.
grammastola 3 years ago
Yeah, he must do, I don't think you could just naturally have a build like that without lifting.
RossPK81 3 years ago
Folks, you're embarassing me. :) I don't want to talk about myself, but I don't want sound like a party-pooper or a killjoy either. Like I said, danged if I do, danged if I don't.
Oops. Sorry about the foul language there. (Heh.)
As for my build... trust me, it's all silicone.
grammastola 3 years ago