Exegetical Calvinism & Presuppositionalism

[Julio2301]

@doctorh2005 I've heard of it but never really read it. I know I like his essay here though. It is likewise thorough. What he says about Van Til and his philosophical mind really allays a lot of the intellectual concerns I had growing up as a Christian. Even here, Dr. Gaffin is concise and thorough. I would like to read that too. Maybe I'll read it and do a review here on YouTube.

[doctorh2005]

Richard Gaffin is great. I've read his book on Cessationism - "Perspectives on Pentecost".

Thorough and intense.

[MRKetter81]

Funny thing that Frame wrote a whole book trying to debunk Michael Horton's Christless christianity; now he's a co-contributer to one of the same books on exogesis?

[Blogrich55]

@MRKetter81 I tossed Frame out when I read him putting down logic! That told what kind of clock he was running on....a cuckoo cuckoo clock! God is logic. God is love, yes, but He is also logic. God is NOT a senile, confused,. old man in the sky. He is the Lord God and rules as He sees fit! If God does a thing it is GOOD. He has predestined ALL things including the fall and satan's rebellion.

[Julio2301]

Oh great another Clark nutt.

[Blogrich55]

@Julio2301 And WHAT are YOU a Van Tillian fruitcake??

[Blogrich55]

William Lane Craig is a nut who believes in "middle knowledge" or Molinism. He is also an Arminian. Van Til is another whacko. He was a genius, no doubt, but his ideas were pathetic. He believed in paradox.Van Til opposed Dr Gordon H Clark which ought to tell you something. The point is neither Craig nor Van Til were sound or logical in their "thinking."

[theembracedofgod]

@Blogrich55

Van Til was a brillant thinker and philosopher to defeated materialism and stripped it clean in any debate. No where can you see that any of his "ideas were pathetic". and about the Paradox.... do you not follow after your own paradox?

[Blogrich55]

@theembracedofgod NO! I do NOT believe in paradox! As to Van Til's pathetic ideas, IF God knows EVERYTHING and we do not share at least SOME knowledge with Him, we can know NOTHING. Van Til's nonsense sound pious but it is pious nonsense that leads to pure SKEPTICISM.

[theembracedofgod]

@Blogrich55

you can correct me if I'm wrong but your comment about us sharing some knowledge with God relative to what the philosophical standard that Van demonstrates all through out his writings? In what way is Van writing pious nonsense? Van Til's work is still being used to help those lead men to Christ and the concept of how all things work accordingly in this universe. If anything else Van is regurgitating information mankind has always known but has chosen to reject.

[MRKetter81]

@Blogrich55 So then you know why God created all things? Why God created Satan knowing he would be evil? If God created a creature that He knew would become evil does that count as good?

There are paradoxes all over scripture... your arrogant if you think ALL knowledge is tangible; and if it isn't then it remains a paradox. NOT contradiction, but a paradox.

[Blogrich55]

@MRKetter81 IF by TANGIBLE you mean that which can be touched or felt, I have NEVER said knowledge was tangible. On the other hand if by tangible you mean definite or objective, are you SERIOUSLY going to deny the Bible gives us definite or objective truth??

Just because knowledge is not tangible does NOT imply paradox. Furthermore, I do not deny that there are SEEMING contradictions in the Bible but these can be resolved by LOGICAL analysis. There is nothing deeper than thought (logic.)

[MRKetter81]

@Blogrich55 By tangible I meant with in the realm of human experience.

[Blogrich55]

@MRKetter81 Not to be repetitious but this comment was obviously removed:

Whatever God does is GOOD! He has predestined ALL things including the fall and satan's rebellion. Just because we do not know WHY does NOT imply he has not done so OR done so for no reason.

Deut 29:29 should be written in LARGE letters on the walls of churches. God does NOT reveal ALL of His reasons to us.

[MRKetter81]

@Blogrich55 "Whatever God does is GOOD! He has predestined ALL things including the fall and satan's rebellion. Just because we do not know WHY does NOT imply he has not done so OR done so for no reason.

Deut 29:29 should be written in LARGE letters on the walls of churches. God does NOT reveal ALL of His reasons to us"

Your preaching to the quire buddy... We are in no disagreement there.. the problem is your etymological understanding of the word paradox.

[MRKetter81]

@Blogrich55 You hear the word "Paradox" and that triggers the thought contradiction... Mainly because most empiricists can't reason past a transcendental and thus can't reason past anything in that realm.

You just explained to me in so many words a transcendental.. that is that God's reason transcends our ability to comprehend. Paradox doesn't mean contradiction.

[Julio2301]

@MRKetter81 I think what @Blogrich55 is trying to prove --trying being the operative word-- is that Van Til's paradox shows that his corollaries are ultimately contradictory, which is basically what you said. If I can use stark terms, I think Clark and his band of followers are more rationalists than earnest religious epistemologists. Paradox is not equal or commensurate to contradiction. Since you harp on logic a lot, it is non sequitur.

[MRKetter81]

@Julio2301 I'm vantilian myself, but the argument I'm making comes from R.C.Sproul. I think Blog regardless of wherever he derived his argument from is making a linguistic fallacy. Rationalism isn't altogether bad so long as it's confined to certain principles. The problem I see with it though is that it presumes all logic is cut, dry and paste in every case... nothing could be farther from the truth. The world we live in thoroughly transcends our perception of it, and this causes us to err.

[Blogrich55]

@theembracedofgod WHAT paradox are you suggesting I should follow? Van Til's reputation as a debater sounds highly over rated. Did he seek to provide evidence for God?

[MODERATECALVINISM]

Romans 4:18

Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

[fl0ww0lf]

christopher hitchens is intelligent. i watch him often. i really want to hear his views on alien life

[Blogrich55]

@fl0ww0lf I am sure he has seen a few little green men as he is reported to be an alcoholic ROFLOL