I think bike lanes are a great idea, but you really get the feeling that they are designed by city planners rather than cyclists. Nevertheless, big cities like NY are always going to be difficult to manage with that quantity of traffic in that little space, and you can't necessarily blame the planners for the misuse.
Stuped bikers, if i had it my way, it would be shoot on sight if thay were on the road, thay think there so pro dressing in spandex and buying a nice bike, most of them are faggets or office pubes..........
Also, when vehicles block the lanes... don't blame the lanes, call 311 and report the license plate number on the vehicle. This is what 311 is for, so that the city knows what people in the community want. The more you call, the more enforcement there will be, the less it will happen in the future. It's a hassle right now, but we have to take responsibility if we want to see change.
I disagree. I live in New York and the 1st and 2nd Ave. bike paths are some of my favorites in the city. It takes time for people (pedestrians, in this case) to get used to a new type of infrastructure, but now that they've been in for a while there are *far* less people walking in the path. Vehicles don't park in them at all any more that I've seen (but they certainly do in the unseparated lanes).
man. that looks like fun. all of you seem like friends. what a fun way to use your time in life man. to me I say it looks like fun becuase it looks like every day is a thrill ride
and you might see people you know every day. it jsut looks like a real satisfying life style.
Over in the UK it's quite common for cycles to legally share with bus lanes because their average speeds are similar. Taxis are also commonly a third group to share some lanes. (The more recent addition of motorbikes is less popular and is believed by some to have made the istuation less safe.)
They are trying to push this garbage second sidewalk in Chicago.
That will suck. For the people who don't get why bikes want to go halfway fast is it already takes forever to get around town at 20mph. If we are slowed down to 10 MPH or even less than it's going to no longer be practical to commute by bike or get around town.
The only kind of riders who will use these are kids and those just riding around the block close to home. Getting from point A to point B will not be practical.
Right on - I've been riding in NYC for over 10 years. The stupid separated bike lanes suck! I avoid them - they are a walled-in obstacle course, more dangerous than riding in traffic. I don't blame people for walking and unloading in them, since there really aren't that many bikes using them. And I don't blame drivers for being pissed - all that real estate for just a small number of bikers who don't even rid 5 months out of the year.
Someone told me that in Amsterdam, bike lanes are totally separated from traffic by a barrier. True? The way they described it, it sounded wonderful. NYC bike lanes are a nice thought but I could see they are poorly designed. I bike everyday here in Providence as a commuter. Some people are great, but some people are just ignorant. Still a long way to go here but it's getting better.
I can't speak for NY, but in Houston.... I often avoid roads with bike lanes and avoid MUPs... it's just easier, safer, and quicker (IMO). Laws here are vague... but if there is no bike lane on that road, then no one can tell me to get in it.
And to the people complaining about the lawless cyclists - yeah there're plenty; I even got road rash from a delivery guy who tried to squeeze by on my right as I was taking a right! Of course motorists & pedestrians are no better. Every day jaywalkers delay my ambulance & are annoyed that the siren hurts their ears!
To the people who say who say these lanes have been proven safer - I have my doubts. I have yet to see T.A.'s methadology behind the conclusions they've drawn. I do know that many previous, properly undertaken & scientific studies have shown that separated facilities starkly INCREASE mortality & morbidity rates. It only takes a casual glance to see that these "protected" lanes are de facto extensions of the sidewalk and entail all the dangers that are inherent in sidewalk riding.
To the folks who are saying to go ahead and bike outside the bike lane, nobody's stopping you. Well in fact, they are - AFAIK the law in NYC requires cyclists to use the bike lane if the roadway has one. I've spoken to people who have been ticketed by the cops for failing to comply with this law.
I drive in the city and I'm a year round commuter. There are plenty of jerks driving, and an equal percentage of poor cyclists. The cars vs bikes argument does little for me.
As a cyclist, I like bike lanes, and I like to use them when they are available to me. When I'm driving, I appreciate a well designed bike lane to concentrate bicycle traffic into a single lane. However, I believe the 1st and 2nd Ave lanes are dangerous, both to drivers and cyclists. I'd prefer if they were removed.
Manhattan drivers need to be less aggressive. You don't solve anything until you solve that -- which you can do with a civility campaign and an enforcement campaign.
With civil driving, you won't want to cower from the motorists in bike lanes. Whether you're slow or fast, you'll take a lane (streets are for people, not just for people in cars) and ride with improved safety.
NY could have patched a lot of potholes and installed a lot of safe secure parking racks for the cost of designing all those bikelanes.
P.S. Do click on jsallen1946 and watch the video. I'm the handsome guy in the blue jacket. We averaged 6 mph on Grand Street, by the way. Riding on a cycletrack is slower than jogging.
Speaking as a person who has been biking his entire life, I think the problem here is with the anarchist nature of some bicyclists, especially those who ride fixed gear bikes. They want to ride wherever and however they please. Maybe that will work in a city like Detroit where the streets are half empty. But here in NYC, we've got to share the streets with an ever increasing number of users. Those fixed gear, anarchist riders need to accept the fact that they nedd to follow some rules.
@swingsteve No doubt that bicyclists need to take responsibility for obeying the law but have you biked on the lanes in question? They really do sandwich bicyclists into the pedestrian space in a way that does not help anyone. Also, under "anarchy" please include police cars lounging in the bike lanes, trucks pulled into them (the poor location of the lane makes this perhaps necessary but still, as the video shows, dangerous) and pretty much every man, woman, child on this island.
@solomail bottomline is we all have to share our streets, bicyclists, motorists and pedestrians. As more and more people commute by bike, they're going to have to make compromises including riding slower and using bike lanes where ever they may exist. Personally, I much rather ride in the protected bike line even with it's inconveniences if it means I don't have to worry about being doored. More bicyclists are injured by motorists opening doors without looking then in any other way.
@solomail bottom line is we all have to share our streets, bicyclists, motorists and pedestrians. As more and more people commute by bike, they're going to have to make compromises including riding slower and using bike lanes where ever they may exist. Personally, I much rather ride in the protected bike line even with it's inconveniences if it means I don't have to worry about being doored. More bicyclists are injured by motorists opening doors without looking then in any other way.
@swingsteve a bicycle commuter has more in common with a motorist than a pedestrian, in terms of both speed and maneuverability.
At about 44 seconds, there is a bike lane that is set with the other traffic lanes, and the only people who might door you there are getting out the passenger side of the vehicle, into a traffic lane. But at 2:00 you see a bike lane sandwiched between the parking and the sidewalk on the left, ensuring that they'll open the door without looking.
Altho this vid does point out a few problems with the phys separated lanes - it also has a big problem when it comes to reality. After all, the new bike lanes are proven to be safer for all cyclists - except perhaps those who want to ride like kamakzies. I love the new lanes, and they've made it safer for parents, children, new cyclists, seniors, groups of riders - remember big picture here - you can't be selfish and think the road is just made for you. Even cars can't go 30 mph all the time.
As one of the interview subjects note, there are different kinds of cyclists. If you're older and don't bike all that fast or you use a bike to carry groceries or to take young children to school in the morning, then these protected bike lanes are great and make it so that it is finally feasible to bike on 1st and 2nd Avenues. If, however, you are clipped in to your pedals like the narrator of this film and you want to rip to Midtown -- then, sure, ride with the cars. No one is stopping you.
Nice job -- please also see my Grand Street video -- click on my ID to the left of this message to find it.
Riding Manhattan's one-way avenues in the regular travel lanes, I've found that I can usually do several blocks before getting a red light. Then I wait, but it would be nice if a pair of avenues on the East Side and another on the West Side were timed slower to discourage through motor travel and increase the span between red lights for cyclists. Cheaper and better than the bikeways!
Wow, good timing. Just finished Effective Cycling and this ties right into what I'd been realizing about bike lanes and bikeways. Too dangerous and I should stay the hell out of them. MUPs during the morning commute are okay, but during my afternoon commute need a 10kph speed limit to avoid hitting the pedestrians that have a right to the pathway. We belong on the roads. Spend that paint money on rider education!
Salmon are frustrating, but if you're a cyclist confident enough to ride in vehicular traffic, why not leave the lanes to people like me who aren't as confident, who are slower, and depend on the (maybe false) safety of bike lanes in order to build up our confidence?
From Portland Oregon, I did the NYC Century, and I can't believe how no one respects the traffic law. Cyclists going opposite directions on the bike lane, pedestrians using the bike lane as a sidewalk, cars parking on bike lane, or how no cyclists use their hand to gesture a turn or stop. I'm surprised I didn't witness any accident. You can build all the bike lanes you want, but its useless when its not safe to use. NYC should enforce its traffic law.
There needs to be stricter traffic enforcement. Skaters and cyclists riding contraflow or running lights and stop signs need to be ticketed; so do vehicles, especially cabbies, encroaching. This 1st Avenue lane seems very poorly designed as well.
There are a few good reasons for a lane, and that is to prevent cars from trying to turn a two lane street into a four lane one -- or, on an excessively wide one-way street, to take one lane from cars as a traffic calming measure.
A bike commuter has more in common with a car than a pedestrian. That's why sticking bikes in a "second sidewalk" is all f#ed up.
Just watching all the "salmon" biking the wrong way makes my biker blood boil! The 1st Ave lane is ultimately more efficient, (my average commute time seems a bit faster) but man, it's way, way more stressful than just biking in traffic was.
AWESOME red light action at about 3:40. I love how it drops into that slow-motion-peril-vision to underline the menace to cyclists that is posed by pedestrians CROSSING WITH THE SIGNAL IN A CROSSWALK. Jerks. Can't they see that she's trying to get somewhere?
To the extent that this video complains about cyclists not being able to go as fast as they want, without regard for traffic, don't look for a lot of sympathy. I mean, why can't cars go 80 MPH in town? Maybe 12 is about right for bikes.
@craigkbryant I work in the lower west side on Hudson and can't tell you the number of times people on bikes fly down the street against the one way traffic, totally oblivious to red lights and crosswalks.
@craigkbryant You are assuming that their light was green just because there was a car going by there, so you obviously don't know New York very well. :)
Left-turn and go-straight on red are pretty common there.
Seriously, the slo-mo there was about the dangerous swerve around the truck parked blocking the bike lane, and then having to swerve even further out around the people. Not their nerve for being in the crosswalk, but HIS nerve for parking blocking a lane right at the corner.
@Spy0ne Well, first, if your contention is that the car was legally going straight on red while the pedestrians were jaywalking, okay, but I think that's a pretty tortured reading of the source material. The cyclist's light was red in any case.
Trucks block everything--car lane, bike lane, sidewalk. Is it an especially bad thing to block bike lanes vs. anything else? And how do you behave when it happens? If a car swerved out like that, then ran a red and hit a pedestrian...?
@craigkbryant no, my contention is we can't see the light, so we don't know who's running it. You assume it is the bicycle, I point out that it is quite possibly the pedestrians AND the car.
I can see a "Don't walk" signal in the cyclist's direction, but I don't see the actual traffic light.
In fact, I think I get a glimpse of the light at 3:37, just as the pedestrians come into view, and just before the car goes by. It looks yellow.
@Spy0ne Not wanting to get all Zapruder on this, because the lighting, the resolution, the movement, and the framing all make it tough to see, but at least my interpretation at 3:37 is that the topmost, that is the _red_, of the three lamps on the traffic signal is the one that is lit. So I'm not assuming here--I looked carefully at the frame, and that's how it looked to me. You can pretty clearly see two non-lit lamps below the lit one at the moment you reference. --Cheers, Craig.
@craigkbryant I concede that the footage there isn't the best example to have used, as the bike seems to be behaving just as badly as anyone else, the light was probably red, and further even if I could prove the light was yellow, running the yellow is just as illegal.
So I'm saying you're right and I wasn't as funny as I meant to be.
@craigkbryant It is not worse to block the bike lane versus any of the things you listed, but parked trucks do have a place they belong: the parking spaces, or designated loading zones, like the truck at 3:45.
If there isn't enough space near that store for delivery trucks to park, that store owner is going to have to get deliveries one at a time, and the delivery companies are probably going to charge him more for that, but better he (and his customers) pay than innocent passers by.
I think there is a basic point here that gets a bit lost: there are two basic kinds of people who want to get around a city by bicycle. One rides at the speed of a jogger and is covering short distances, the other covers longer distances and rides at the speed of a very slow car, or an Olympic sprinter.
The first mixes much more comfortably with pedestrians than automobiles, the second the other way around. It is probably impossible to design a single bike lane to serve both.
What bothers me about bikers in traffic is the sometimes blatant disregard for traffic rules that was also shown in the clip. Bikers need to STOP for people crossing the street in a crosswalk. Bikers need to STOP at red lights. Just because you are on a bike does not mean you have automatic right of way over everybody. Also if bikers weave through stopped cars as shown in the clip I have no sympathy if they get hit. At least follow the rules yourself before you complain about others.
Tough shit. It's safer for most people. Just use them and slow down a little bit. I honestly haven't had to slow down a whole lot. For most people, it's honestly not safer to ride in traffic. If you ride in the bus lane and slow a bus down with 30+ people on it on their way to work, I hope you get a big ass ticket.
I'm sorry, but if you think 3rd Avenue without a bike lane and cabs pulling over and everyone trying to get ahead on a narrow avenue (which runs in both direction as well) is safer than 1st Avenue with a bike lane then you are truly, truly a fool. I'm sorry you have to deal with pedestrians in the bike lane - boo friggidy hoo - it certainly beats the crazed cabbies of 1st Avenue pulling over left and right to catch a fair. Also dangerous: riding while operating a camera.
This video does a great job of documenting the problems with the First Avenue bike path. But I'm concerned that some cyclists will draw mistaken conclusions from it--about the NYC traffic laws, and about the safey of the path for cyclists moving at 15 MPH or so. Due to space limitations, I've put my full comments in a related discussion here: bit.ly[backslash]mI11L
Hope to see more vids like this soon, oikofugicnyc!
Cool video, but keep in mind, even when you're not using a bike lane, you still need to avoid pedestrians. And, if it came down to being cut off by a pedestrian or a automobile, I'd take the pedestrian. Being in the bike lane doesn't mean you can throw caution to the wind, but to argue that it's actually less safe than within traffic might be a bit much. However, good points about the 'design' of first ave, based on the direction in which cars most often turn.
Thank you! Thank you! This is terrific... except for 3:36 where, I don't know, someone is running a red light? Don't undermine yourself. I call it FALOD. First Avenue Lane of Doom. The one on 2nd? Not SALOD, no. I call that one Beggars Canyon because there are exponentially more peds "womp ratting" in that lane.
@ignatzybanjo haha!!! second that! I hit a pedestrian on FALOD and am bruised still. never riding it again. 3rd av (TALOD?) is excellent, it is actually better to deal with cars than with people.
@dandurlier This was screened at the latest Bike Shorts, and a woman who works on bike lanes for the DOT was there. She immediately asked if she could show it to her bosses.
@dandurller No, no it doesn't. What's the takeaway from it? That some people who run red lights are complaining the new lane isn't safe and they can't go as fast, and then the next step in their logic is to use the bus lane, potentially causing a slower commute for dozens of people on the bus? Gimme a break.
@GermFreeFusion It's common sense to ride the right side of 1st ave because everyone peels left. It's unfortunate DOT did not take that fact into account when installing the new bike lane. As far as slowing up busses.. In 9 years of commuting, I can't think of one time I've been passed by a bus. If you are being passed by busses, then yes, you belong in the bike lane. Good luck with that.
@dandurller That's why they're putting in the new lights like the did on Broadway and 9th Avenue. I can't wait until they start ticketing people for not using the lanes.
@dandurller If you feel like riding in the 1st avenue bike lane is that dangerous, you REALLY need to slow down or find a basic safety skillz certification program.
@GermFreeFusion Or, I can just keep doing what i've been doing for almost a decade. Bus lane, no bus lane, bike lane, no bike lane, tickets, no tickets; none of that REALLY matters.. I do what feels safe to me everyday, and nothing is going to change that.
@dandurller You have to admit you are in the top percentile of bike commuters in the city in terms of speed and bike handling. What was your average there? 29mph? More? Do you realize that you are in the minority compared to the rest of NYC bike commuters?
Fine, don't use the lane, risk the ticket - that's up to you. But don't act like the new lanes are a failure because you can't continue this kind of riding in them.
I think bike lanes are a great idea, but you really get the feeling that they are designed by city planners rather than cyclists. Nevertheless, big cities like NY are always going to be difficult to manage with that quantity of traffic in that little space, and you can't necessarily blame the planners for the misuse.
MarsManatee 4 days ago
Stuped bikers, if i had it my way, it would be shoot on sight if thay were on the road, thay think there so pro dressing in spandex and buying a nice bike, most of them are faggets or office pubes..........
OMBIC 3 months ago
Also, when vehicles block the lanes... don't blame the lanes, call 311 and report the license plate number on the vehicle. This is what 311 is for, so that the city knows what people in the community want. The more you call, the more enforcement there will be, the less it will happen in the future. It's a hassle right now, but we have to take responsibility if we want to see change.
hrfhud 7 months ago
I disagree. I live in New York and the 1st and 2nd Ave. bike paths are some of my favorites in the city. It takes time for people (pedestrians, in this case) to get used to a new type of infrastructure, but now that they've been in for a while there are *far* less people walking in the path. Vehicles don't park in them at all any more that I've seen (but they certainly do in the unseparated lanes).
hrfhud 7 months ago
man. that looks like fun. all of you seem like friends. what a fun way to use your time in life man. to me I say it looks like fun becuase it looks like every day is a thrill ride
and you might see people you know every day. it jsut looks like a real satisfying life style.
HeartPiece4u 9 months ago
plz ride around new york more with ur camera facing forward, this city looks beutifull..
defiant18 10 months ago
Whatever, people in nyc have it good, My 2 cents would be just make the streeets REALLY smooth, potholes are almost as dangerous as pedestrians!
dadada72 11 months ago
What camera/mount are you using? The quality is excellent -- I'd like to upgrade from my current dual iPod setup.
xchopp 11 months ago
Over in the UK it's quite common for cycles to legally share with bus lanes because their average speeds are similar. Taxis are also commonly a third group to share some lanes. (The more recent addition of motorbikes is less popular and is believed by some to have made the istuation less safe.)
PhillipBicknell 11 months ago
good storytelling!
julynavy 11 months ago
They are trying to push this garbage second sidewalk in Chicago.
That will suck. For the people who don't get why bikes want to go halfway fast is it already takes forever to get around town at 20mph. If we are slowed down to 10 MPH or even less than it's going to no longer be practical to commute by bike or get around town.
The only kind of riders who will use these are kids and those just riding around the block close to home. Getting from point A to point B will not be practical.
SerenityValleyVFR 1 year ago 2
Right on - I've been riding in NYC for over 10 years. The stupid separated bike lanes suck! I avoid them - they are a walled-in obstacle course, more dangerous than riding in traffic. I don't blame people for walking and unloading in them, since there really aren't that many bikes using them. And I don't blame drivers for being pissed - all that real estate for just a small number of bikers who don't even rid 5 months out of the year.
jeffl96 1 year ago 2
Someone told me that in Amsterdam, bike lanes are totally separated from traffic by a barrier. True? The way they described it, it sounded wonderful. NYC bike lanes are a nice thought but I could see they are poorly designed. I bike everyday here in Providence as a commuter. Some people are great, but some people are just ignorant. Still a long way to go here but it's getting better.
blkchk 1 year ago
I can't speak for NY, but in Houston.... I often avoid roads with bike lanes and avoid MUPs... it's just easier, safer, and quicker (IMO). Laws here are vague... but if there is no bike lane on that road, then no one can tell me to get in it.
c42083 1 year ago
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Awww poor entitled hipsters... grow up and drive a car and be part of normal civilization
killingspree 1 year ago
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killingspree 1 year ago
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killingspree 1 year ago
And to the people complaining about the lawless cyclists - yeah there're plenty; I even got road rash from a delivery guy who tried to squeeze by on my right as I was taking a right! Of course motorists & pedestrians are no better. Every day jaywalkers delay my ambulance & are annoyed that the siren hurts their ears!
elipongo 1 year ago
To the people who say who say these lanes have been proven safer - I have my doubts. I have yet to see T.A.'s methadology behind the conclusions they've drawn. I do know that many previous, properly undertaken & scientific studies have shown that separated facilities starkly INCREASE mortality & morbidity rates. It only takes a casual glance to see that these "protected" lanes are de facto extensions of the sidewalk and entail all the dangers that are inherent in sidewalk riding.
elipongo 1 year ago 3
To the folks who are saying to go ahead and bike outside the bike lane, nobody's stopping you. Well in fact, they are - AFAIK the law in NYC requires cyclists to use the bike lane if the roadway has one. I've spoken to people who have been ticketed by the cops for failing to comply with this law.
elipongo 1 year ago
I drive in the city and I'm a year round commuter. There are plenty of jerks driving, and an equal percentage of poor cyclists. The cars vs bikes argument does little for me.
As a cyclist, I like bike lanes, and I like to use them when they are available to me. When I'm driving, I appreciate a well designed bike lane to concentrate bicycle traffic into a single lane. However, I believe the 1st and 2nd Ave lanes are dangerous, both to drivers and cyclists. I'd prefer if they were removed.
ronisolomon 1 year ago 2
Anyone notice her avoiding a possible "left-hook" by the white van at the beginning?
fastfazz 1 year ago
Excellent video! Thank you!
Here's what's best: "Status quo ante." No bike lane.
RE motorist speed: Motorists go too fast in Manhattan. In between stop lights. They don't travel too fast; they just drive too fast.
I would like to see NY street traffic lights sync'd for about 19 mph (exact speed subject to discussion; I might be convinced that slower is better).
RE bike speed: The usefulness of a bike is crippled if you have to ride at a Netherlands-like 6 mph
GarnetHarrier 1 year ago
Manhattan drivers need to be less aggressive. You don't solve anything until you solve that -- which you can do with a civility campaign and an enforcement campaign.
With civil driving, you won't want to cower from the motorists in bike lanes. Whether you're slow or fast, you'll take a lane (streets are for people, not just for people in cars) and ride with improved safety.
GarnetHarrier 1 year ago
NY could have patched a lot of potholes and installed a lot of safe secure parking racks for the cost of designing all those bikelanes.
P.S. Do click on jsallen1946 and watch the video. I'm the handsome guy in the blue jacket. We averaged 6 mph on Grand Street, by the way. Riding on a cycletrack is slower than jogging.
GarnetHarrier 1 year ago
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GarnetHarrier 1 year ago
Speaking as a person who has been biking his entire life, I think the problem here is with the anarchist nature of some bicyclists, especially those who ride fixed gear bikes. They want to ride wherever and however they please. Maybe that will work in a city like Detroit where the streets are half empty. But here in NYC, we've got to share the streets with an ever increasing number of users. Those fixed gear, anarchist riders need to accept the fact that they nedd to follow some rules.
swingsteve 1 year ago
@swingsteve No doubt that bicyclists need to take responsibility for obeying the law but have you biked on the lanes in question? They really do sandwich bicyclists into the pedestrian space in a way that does not help anyone. Also, under "anarchy" please include police cars lounging in the bike lanes, trucks pulled into them (the poor location of the lane makes this perhaps necessary but still, as the video shows, dangerous) and pretty much every man, woman, child on this island.
solomail 1 year ago
@solomail bottomline is we all have to share our streets, bicyclists, motorists and pedestrians. As more and more people commute by bike, they're going to have to make compromises including riding slower and using bike lanes where ever they may exist. Personally, I much rather ride in the protected bike line even with it's inconveniences if it means I don't have to worry about being doored. More bicyclists are injured by motorists opening doors without looking then in any other way.
swingsteve 1 year ago
@solomail bottom line is we all have to share our streets, bicyclists, motorists and pedestrians. As more and more people commute by bike, they're going to have to make compromises including riding slower and using bike lanes where ever they may exist. Personally, I much rather ride in the protected bike line even with it's inconveniences if it means I don't have to worry about being doored. More bicyclists are injured by motorists opening doors without looking then in any other way.
swingsteve 1 year ago
@swingsteve a bicycle commuter has more in common with a motorist than a pedestrian, in terms of both speed and maneuverability.
At about 44 seconds, there is a bike lane that is set with the other traffic lanes, and the only people who might door you there are getting out the passenger side of the vehicle, into a traffic lane. But at 2:00 you see a bike lane sandwiched between the parking and the sidewalk on the left, ensuring that they'll open the door without looking.
Spy0ne 1 year ago
beautiful.
kantandesne 1 year ago
Ride in the Bus Lane my Dear, I do... Allen Street Path Rocks!! 1ave. Bus Lane All the way!! Ride Safe!!
dutchmazz 1 year ago
Altho this vid does point out a few problems with the phys separated lanes - it also has a big problem when it comes to reality. After all, the new bike lanes are proven to be safer for all cyclists - except perhaps those who want to ride like kamakzies. I love the new lanes, and they've made it safer for parents, children, new cyclists, seniors, groups of riders - remember big picture here - you can't be selfish and think the road is just made for you. Even cars can't go 30 mph all the time.
trorb 1 year ago 2
@trorb
Where's your source that 'proves' that these bike lanes are safer? All the stats I've seen have shown the opposite - that they're less safe.
BeeryUSA 1 year ago
As one of the interview subjects note, there are different kinds of cyclists. If you're older and don't bike all that fast or you use a bike to carry groceries or to take young children to school in the morning, then these protected bike lanes are great and make it so that it is finally feasible to bike on 1st and 2nd Avenues. If, however, you are clipped in to your pedals like the narrator of this film and you want to rip to Midtown -- then, sure, ride with the cars. No one is stopping you.
Naparstek 1 year ago 2
Nice job -- please also see my Grand Street video -- click on my ID to the left of this message to find it.
Riding Manhattan's one-way avenues in the regular travel lanes, I've found that I can usually do several blocks before getting a red light. Then I wait, but it would be nice if a pair of avenues on the East Side and another on the West Side were timed slower to discourage through motor travel and increase the span between red lights for cyclists. Cheaper and better than the bikeways!
jsallen1946 1 year ago
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jsallen1946 1 year ago
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jsallen1946 1 year ago
Wow, good timing. Just finished Effective Cycling and this ties right into what I'd been realizing about bike lanes and bikeways. Too dangerous and I should stay the hell out of them. MUPs during the morning commute are okay, but during my afternoon commute need a 10kph speed limit to avoid hitting the pedestrians that have a right to the pathway. We belong on the roads. Spend that paint money on rider education!
daijoubu2k5 1 year ago
Does anyone read "Effective Cycling" by John Forester anymore? Published in 1992 but many of his observations still apply it seems.
loganenator 1 year ago
Salmon are frustrating, but if you're a cyclist confident enough to ride in vehicular traffic, why not leave the lanes to people like me who aren't as confident, who are slower, and depend on the (maybe false) safety of bike lanes in order to build up our confidence?
skeskali 1 year ago
From Portland Oregon, I did the NYC Century, and I can't believe how no one respects the traffic law. Cyclists going opposite directions on the bike lane, pedestrians using the bike lane as a sidewalk, cars parking on bike lane, or how no cyclists use their hand to gesture a turn or stop. I'm surprised I didn't witness any accident. You can build all the bike lanes you want, but its useless when its not safe to use. NYC should enforce its traffic law.
spaceghostman 1 year ago
Wow and I thought Cambridge had some bad bike lanes...
makaio222 1 year ago
You have a third option: RIDE THE FRIGGIN GREENWAY ALONG THE EAST RIVER! Oh, and work to close the friggin gap from 38-60.
Scottonthespot305 1 year ago
There needs to be stricter traffic enforcement. Skaters and cyclists riding contraflow or running lights and stop signs need to be ticketed; so do vehicles, especially cabbies, encroaching. This 1st Avenue lane seems very poorly designed as well.
There are a few good reasons for a lane, and that is to prevent cars from trying to turn a two lane street into a four lane one -- or, on an excessively wide one-way street, to take one lane from cars as a traffic calming measure.
dblissmn 1 year ago
A bike commuter has more in common with a car than a pedestrian. That's why sticking bikes in a "second sidewalk" is all f#ed up.
Just watching all the "salmon" biking the wrong way makes my biker blood boil! The 1st Ave lane is ultimately more efficient, (my average commute time seems a bit faster) but man, it's way, way more stressful than just biking in traffic was.
solomail 1 year ago 8
@solomail
Right, nobody needs bike-lanes or other ways of separating traffic. Or, in a nutshell: "share the road!".
roadworms 1 year ago
AWESOME red light action at about 3:40. I love how it drops into that slow-motion-peril-vision to underline the menace to cyclists that is posed by pedestrians CROSSING WITH THE SIGNAL IN A CROSSWALK. Jerks. Can't they see that she's trying to get somewhere?
To the extent that this video complains about cyclists not being able to go as fast as they want, without regard for traffic, don't look for a lot of sympathy. I mean, why can't cars go 80 MPH in town? Maybe 12 is about right for bikes.
craigkbryant 1 year ago 3
@craigkbryant I work in the lower west side on Hudson and can't tell you the number of times people on bikes fly down the street against the one way traffic, totally oblivious to red lights and crosswalks.
sublimeLBC866 1 year ago
@craigkbryant You are assuming that their light was green just because there was a car going by there, so you obviously don't know New York very well. :)
Left-turn and go-straight on red are pretty common there.
Seriously, the slo-mo there was about the dangerous swerve around the truck parked blocking the bike lane, and then having to swerve even further out around the people. Not their nerve for being in the crosswalk, but HIS nerve for parking blocking a lane right at the corner.
Spy0ne 1 year ago
@Spy0ne Well, first, if your contention is that the car was legally going straight on red while the pedestrians were jaywalking, okay, but I think that's a pretty tortured reading of the source material. The cyclist's light was red in any case.
Trucks block everything--car lane, bike lane, sidewalk. Is it an especially bad thing to block bike lanes vs. anything else? And how do you behave when it happens? If a car swerved out like that, then ran a red and hit a pedestrian...?
craigkbryant 1 year ago
@craigkbryant no, my contention is we can't see the light, so we don't know who's running it. You assume it is the bicycle, I point out that it is quite possibly the pedestrians AND the car.
I can see a "Don't walk" signal in the cyclist's direction, but I don't see the actual traffic light.
In fact, I think I get a glimpse of the light at 3:37, just as the pedestrians come into view, and just before the car goes by. It looks yellow.
So EVERYONE was in the wrong there.
Spy0ne 1 year ago
@Spy0ne Not wanting to get all Zapruder on this, because the lighting, the resolution, the movement, and the framing all make it tough to see, but at least my interpretation at 3:37 is that the topmost, that is the _red_, of the three lamps on the traffic signal is the one that is lit. So I'm not assuming here--I looked carefully at the frame, and that's how it looked to me. You can pretty clearly see two non-lit lamps below the lit one at the moment you reference. --Cheers, Craig.
craigkbryant 1 year ago
@craigkbryant I concede that the footage there isn't the best example to have used, as the bike seems to be behaving just as badly as anyone else, the light was probably red, and further even if I could prove the light was yellow, running the yellow is just as illegal.
So I'm saying you're right and I wasn't as funny as I meant to be.
Spy0ne 1 year ago
@craigkbryant It is not worse to block the bike lane versus any of the things you listed, but parked trucks do have a place they belong: the parking spaces, or designated loading zones, like the truck at 3:45.
If there isn't enough space near that store for delivery trucks to park, that store owner is going to have to get deliveries one at a time, and the delivery companies are probably going to charge him more for that, but better he (and his customers) pay than innocent passers by.
Spy0ne 1 year ago
I think there is a basic point here that gets a bit lost: there are two basic kinds of people who want to get around a city by bicycle. One rides at the speed of a jogger and is covering short distances, the other covers longer distances and rides at the speed of a very slow car, or an Olympic sprinter.
The first mixes much more comfortably with pedestrians than automobiles, the second the other way around. It is probably impossible to design a single bike lane to serve both.
Spy0ne 1 year ago
What's that song at the end?
dfgreen14 1 year ago
What bothers me about bikers in traffic is the sometimes blatant disregard for traffic rules that was also shown in the clip. Bikers need to STOP for people crossing the street in a crosswalk. Bikers need to STOP at red lights. Just because you are on a bike does not mean you have automatic right of way over everybody. Also if bikers weave through stopped cars as shown in the clip I have no sympathy if they get hit. At least follow the rules yourself before you complain about others.
uwtisch 1 year ago
Tough shit. It's safer for most people. Just use them and slow down a little bit. I honestly haven't had to slow down a whole lot. For most people, it's honestly not safer to ride in traffic. If you ride in the bus lane and slow a bus down with 30+ people on it on their way to work, I hope you get a big ass ticket.
GermFreeFusion 1 year ago
Third avenue, Rachel!
noesno2 1 year ago
Nice running a red-light at 3:40 and the dramatic slow down on the pedestrians that have the right of way!
tsakkadoo 1 year ago 2
I'm sorry, but if you think 3rd Avenue without a bike lane and cabs pulling over and everyone trying to get ahead on a narrow avenue (which runs in both direction as well) is safer than 1st Avenue with a bike lane then you are truly, truly a fool. I'm sorry you have to deal with pedestrians in the bike lane - boo friggidy hoo - it certainly beats the crazed cabbies of 1st Avenue pulling over left and right to catch a fair. Also dangerous: riding while operating a camera.
ossarian 1 year ago
This is a great doc! We need more like it!
6h0575h1p 1 year ago
a solution might be to make the bikelanes as big as the normal traffic lanes. like in kopenhagen.
medienluemmel2000 1 year ago
Bus lane love!
kweenkmatt 1 year ago
sorry, that link is [colon double backslash]bit.ly[backslash]bmI11L
lfreedman500 1 year ago
This video does a great job of documenting the problems with the First Avenue bike path. But I'm concerned that some cyclists will draw mistaken conclusions from it--about the NYC traffic laws, and about the safey of the path for cyclists moving at 15 MPH or so. Due to space limitations, I've put my full comments in a related discussion here: bit.ly[backslash]mI11L
Hope to see more vids like this soon, oikofugicnyc!
lfreedman500 1 year ago
Cool video, but keep in mind, even when you're not using a bike lane, you still need to avoid pedestrians. And, if it came down to being cut off by a pedestrian or a automobile, I'd take the pedestrian. Being in the bike lane doesn't mean you can throw caution to the wind, but to argue that it's actually less safe than within traffic might be a bit much. However, good points about the 'design' of first ave, based on the direction in which cars most often turn.
bralfucious 1 year ago
Thank you! Thank you! This is terrific... except for 3:36 where, I don't know, someone is running a red light? Don't undermine yourself. I call it FALOD. First Avenue Lane of Doom. The one on 2nd? Not SALOD, no. I call that one Beggars Canyon because there are exponentially more peds "womp ratting" in that lane.
ignatzybanjo 1 year ago
@ignatzybanjo haha!!! second that! I hit a pedestrian on FALOD and am bruised still. never riding it again. 3rd av (TALOD?) is excellent, it is actually better to deal with cars than with people.
noesno2 1 year ago
bikeshortfilms (dot) com
bikeshortfilms 1 year ago
@dandurlier This was screened at the latest Bike Shorts, and a woman who works on bike lanes for the DOT was there. She immediately asked if she could show it to her bosses.
bikeshortfilms 1 year ago
@bikeshortfilms That's so awesome.
dandurller 1 year ago
This needs to go to City Hall.
dandurller 1 year ago
@dandurller No, no it doesn't. What's the takeaway from it? That some people who run red lights are complaining the new lane isn't safe and they can't go as fast, and then the next step in their logic is to use the bus lane, potentially causing a slower commute for dozens of people on the bus? Gimme a break.
GermFreeFusion 1 year ago
@GermFreeFusion It's common sense to ride the right side of 1st ave because everyone peels left. It's unfortunate DOT did not take that fact into account when installing the new bike lane. As far as slowing up busses.. In 9 years of commuting, I can't think of one time I've been passed by a bus. If you are being passed by busses, then yes, you belong in the bike lane. Good luck with that.
dandurller 1 year ago 2
@dandurller That's why they're putting in the new lights like the did on Broadway and 9th Avenue. I can't wait until they start ticketing people for not using the lanes.
GermFreeFusion 1 year ago
@GermFreeFusion I'll take a ticket over death
dandurller 1 year ago
@dandurller If you feel like riding in the 1st avenue bike lane is that dangerous, you REALLY need to slow down or find a basic safety skillz certification program.
GermFreeFusion 1 year ago
@GermFreeFusion Or, I can just keep doing what i've been doing for almost a decade. Bus lane, no bus lane, bike lane, no bike lane, tickets, no tickets; none of that REALLY matters.. I do what feels safe to me everyday, and nothing is going to change that.
dandurller 1 year ago
@dandurller Ok, lone wolf.
GermFreeFusion 1 year ago
@GermFreeFusion your wait is finally over, enjoy~ vimeo dot com/15841771
dandurller 1 year ago
Comment removed
GermFreeFusion 1 year ago
@dandurller You have to admit you are in the top percentile of bike commuters in the city in terms of speed and bike handling. What was your average there? 29mph? More? Do you realize that you are in the minority compared to the rest of NYC bike commuters?
Fine, don't use the lane, risk the ticket - that's up to you. But don't act like the new lanes are a failure because you can't continue this kind of riding in them.
GermFreeFusion 1 year ago