Did Jesus Resurrect from the Dead? (Gary Habermas vs Antony Flew)

[danwazhere7]

and you got to admire the respect and kindness that Mr Flew gives.

[danwazhere7]

Mr Flew is fighting a loosing battle, the truth is very hard to break it down, either Jesus was resurrected or He wasn't, and the evidence points to a resurrected Jesus, no one can can attack this truth. Jesus WAS resurrected, how blessed are we to have this truth and situation that happened 2,000 years ago, God bless you all!B

[DreamsofMajesty]

For anybody who would like to read a couple of really good articles about the gospel and how its supposed to be applied to our lives, feel free to check out the scribd website that is listed on my channel.

[KingDcome11]

anthony flew= ex atheist lol

[EdibleSmurf]

How is a debate moderated if the moderator has the same bias as one of the debtors...??

[albertlisty]

@EdibleSmurf, How do you find a moderator that either believes in a god or not? It's just pretty difficult, wouldn't you agree?

[EdibleSmurf]

@albertlisty, Very true - I really value your response. I should have rephrased my question to touch more so on the moderators out-spoken bias.

[albertlisty]

@albertlisty, Yes, the moderator should refrain from making their bias known. I would agree.

[Shazoolo]

I watched much of this video today and intend to watch the rest asap. I must say I am very very impressed indeed with Habermas. Such a superb and articulate scholar and apologist. Definately one of my new favourite Christian defenders. I'm also currently going through his excellent book on the resurrection so this debate is an excellent compliment to it. Thanks so much for uploading. Also, refreshing to see an atheist (Flew) not slinging ad hominems like the many so called 'new atheists'.

[AgApE010]

@Shazoolo

That's because Flew isn't one of the Neo-Atheists like Hitchens or Dawkins. Believe it or not, atheist thinkers used to be very respectful and articulate in their views (Bertrand Russell, Jean-Paul Sartre, and David Hume are other examples). It is only this new age atheist who is like a rebellious child.

When you think about it, it's funny how atheism seems to have already reached its intellectual peak through such people. It's all downhill from here LOL.

[LothairOfLorraine]

Are all British men homosexual? It certainly seems so.

[MLangan86]

@LothairOfLorraine internet troll alert

[brtherjohn]

At 00.42 you see the problem with apoloigist reasoning: you can't claim a fact or evidence of something by one's devotion and testimony, as in this case, the disciples.  In short, testimonial claims are just that, and are not hard evidences, and certainly not "facts". It's apples and oranges...

[blakeesmith84]

The host is an annoying ahole.

[EdibleSmurf]

@blakeesmith84, Flew straight pwned the Host at 1:12:00!!...

[FruKaos]

It is interesting how atheists thought of Anthony Flew as a star philosopher until he realized that God existed. Then he became a "dead horse"...

[albertlisty]

@FruKaos Mr. Flew was what we all should be, critical about the data. If we are honest with ourselves as well as honest with the data, we too might come to the conclusion that Mr. Flew did.

The atheists consider him a dead horse because of his honesty with the data. He didn't seem to have a biased opinion. He approached the data as data and believed what the data showed him.

I would have loved to have seen him look at these debates and comment on them after his conversion to a deist.

[Darwinsman]

@kazoopilot I think it is the most likely caused of all religious visions. It fits the symptoms and, as no-one else who was with paul at the time, saw anything at all, it certainly makes more sense than a visitation from some almighty supernatural being.

Have you seen "God on the Brain"? It's very interesting.

Watch?v=v0WC9VPsAqg

[GaryLyons]

I admire the respectfulness of this debate. Of course, I believe 100% the gospel account and the writings of Paul. I believe this because of my personal experience with the risen Lord Jesus. He has changed me, I have an inner peace that I cannot explain in words, and Paul writes is 2 Corinthians 5:17 - "You are new creation in Christ Jesus; the old has gone, behold all things have become new." ~ I know this to be true in particular by perosnal experience. There are many more witnesses as well.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Your belief and experience of Jesus is totally subjective and has now been explained by science.

You say that it has given you an inner peace.

I was a christian for the first 20 yrs of my life and all it gave me was turmoil and confusion. My inner peace came when I, after a long struggle, reluctanly rejected religion and accepted that the world was a wonderful, but totally natural phenomenon and we were just a small part of it, not the peak of creation.

Different strokes, I suppose.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...you were never a Christian, I am sure you had a man made religion, it was probably the religion from Rome, but you were never born again of the Holy Spirit. You went from one religion to another. Religion doesn't save, only Jesus does. God does not want a religion from us, He desires a relationship with us because He loves us, but it is our sins that separate us from Him; but God demonstrated His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons if I had £1 for every "Christian" who told me that I was never a christian, I would be a very rich man. I can assure you, even if you don't want to believe it, I was as much a christian as anyone could be. I loved it and lived it. My whole life revolved around the church.

If I wasn't a christian, then people like Kirk Cameron and Lee Strobel were never atheists.

What religion have I gone to, atheism?

If Atheism is religion, then not collecting stamps is a Hobby. Use your brain.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...of course atheism is a religion, and you replaced one religion with another, you never knew the Lord, you never were born again of the Holy Spirit; so yes, of course you never were a Christian this is evident. The evidence is that you said your whole life revolved around the church. Your whole life revolves around Jesus Christ when you are born again, not the church; you abide in Him and it is a relationship with Him. I pray you do come to know Him one day, but you never did.

[TheBowsersMario]

@GaryLyons you're using no true scottsman on a flew video. -sigh-

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons It just demonstrates your limited intellect. you cannot visualise anything other than from a relgious viewpoint.

If your life revolves around jesus, then you are building your life around a myth. Apart from the second and third hand stories in the bible, there isn't even any evidence that he even existed, much less that he was anything other than one of the many preachers around at that time.

Nobody who was writing at the time even mentions him, neither did anyone who ever met him.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...of course many met Him, including people today, but as far as physically meeeting Him. Just check out 1 John 1: "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which WE HAVE SEEN WITH OUE EYES, which we have LOOKED UPON, and OUR HANDS HAVE HANDLED, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us. That which we have seen & heard we declare."

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons There is no evidence of god and it is pointless quoting the bible as if it were true.

The bible is nothing more than a collection of legends and myths invented by bronze age peasants to explain their scary world. A world of which their knowledge was less than that of a modern day 11 yr old school student.

Most of the cornerstone events, i.e Genesis, the Exodus, Noah's Flood etc aren't even historically correct, never mind all the mythical miraculous stories of jesus. Cont'd.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Regarding what the New Testament says Jesus is supposed to have said. As none of the writers were there at the time and nothing was written down until many decades after his supposed death, how could they possibly know.

Also, the experience of "knowing jesus" is now understood, it is a mental condition known as Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. It can even be duplicated in the lab in susceptable people and has been on many occasions. I recommend a video series:

Watch?v=v0WC9VPsAqg

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ~what I quoted was from John, one of His disciples, he was very much there, and walked with Jesus, talked with Him, saw Him, touched Him. You are in denial, because you hate the light and love darkness. So you must deny the light to justify your love of sin and darkness. It is the very human condition Jesus came to free mankind from. So you shake your fist in God's face, spit on Jesus, and claim you are right and He is wrong. But again the truth still applies to you no matter what.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Sorry, but the John of the Gospels was not the disciple John. That has been known for hundreds of years.

There were over 50 anonymous gospels written about jesus after his death. about 30 survive today. Of these, well into the 2nd cent. CE, only 4 were thought to fit church doctrine and chosen by the early church to be included in the New Testament. Purely to give some sort of authenticity for benefit of the faithful, these 4 were assigned the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ..you are in absolute denial of the obvious because of your hatred for Jesus Christ. Yes, the John who wrote 1 John who says he was an eye witness of Jesus and touched Jesus and heard Jesus is indeed His disciple from the gospels...and Peter also is a disciple of Jesus who says he is an eyewitness of His glory: "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were EYEWITNESSES of His majesty." (2 Peter 1:16)

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons I realise that self delusion is essential for anyone to believe in the bible, but sorry to disappoint you but the vast majority of biblical scholars do not believe that any of the disciples wrote the gospels. 1 & 2 Peter in particular were writtenin two styles by two different authors. the original of 1 Peter was written in very stylised Greek, which a humble Galilean fisherman would have not been capable of and 2 Peter is written in the same style as Jude.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...~"The world hates Me because I testify that what it does is evil." (John 7:7) ~ again this is what it comes down to. You hate Jesus because He exposes your evil, so the best way you can think of to ease your conscience is to simply deny He even existed. Darkness hates the light and lies to itself to the point of even convincing itself that light does not exist.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons I don't hate Jesus and I'm prepared to accept that there might have been some good man called Jesus preaching at the time. It was a common name. (There were at least 4 High Priests called Jesus).

However, other than in the bible, which has no independant corroboration, there is no contemporary evidence whatsoever for any divinity. There's nothing about his "miracles" and no record of his crucifixion or resurrection. Even the Bible itself proves that the nativity never happened.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ~well thats a good first step, you are prepared to at least admit a Man named Jesus existed. You know whats an amazing quote I read, I forgot who said it, but it goes like this: "The Jesus of the bible is quite remarkable, even Einstein thought so. I remember thinking to myself, if the Jesus of the bible never existed; then I would have to worship the one who created the character." ~ He truly transforms your life, His words truly do pierce into your soul and spirit. God bless!

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Harry potter is quite remarkable, but is a fictional character, that doesn't mean that I should worship his creator, J K Rowling.

I admitted that Jesus MIGHT have been real, but even if he was, he was just an ordinary person. (One of many around that time who were claiming to be the Messiah.)

It is his "creator" that I don't believe is true as there is no evidence to prove the existence of any God other than in the bible and you can't use something to prove itself. That is basic logic

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ..my friend, Jesus was never created, He is the Creator ~ "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17) And the existence of God is overwhelmingly obvious considering the things that have been made.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons quote: "my friend, Jesus was never created,"

correct. he was no different to anyone else. (if he existed.)

There you go, quoting the bible again. I've told you, you can't use something to prove itself.

You say that the evidence for god is overwhelming. Well, where is your corroborating evidence of god or Jesus?

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...one of the many evidences of God are the things that are made. To look at all of creation in its beauty and complexity and then to arrogantly say "God does not exist." ...would be like walking into a museum and gazing at the Mona Lisa painting and then saying "Leonardo Da Vinci never existed"...that would be quite foolish indeed. No wonder Psalm 14:1 says - "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons more useless bible quotes. I've told you, i won't accept them unless they are corroborated, so you are wasting your time spouting them, also, there isn't one that I haven't already heard and read myself. I've been studying the bible and biblicasl history for over 50 yrs.

There is nothing on the earth today regarding the multiplicity of life that cannot be explained by evolution via natural selection. show me your proof, other than the bible.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman~ the scientific evidence is proof. Both laws of thermodynamics prove God & deem atheism scientifically impossible. The simple fact that there was a beginning & the first law of thermodynamics says energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed. Of course this law is a natural law within the universe itself. So something outside the universe must have created it. So the only explanation for the universes existence is that something supernatural, timeless, and spaceless created it.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Please, don't insult my intelligence. The laws of thermodymanics only apply to a closed system and the universe is not a closed system. That old chestnut has been squashed for years, only creationists still believe that now and they keep pushing it, because they've got nothing else. Please quote your source.

In fact if you really examine the Laws of Thermodynamics, they actually prove that god could not exist.

You've been watching too much Kent hovind.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...your desperation to deny God is evident. It does come down to a love of sin with you my friend. To suggest that the universe created itself violating the laws of thermodynamics insults science. It is obvious that the universe had a beginning, so it is obvious that the universe had a cause, and it is obvcious that something outside the universe caused the universe. And that something is indeed a Someone..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..." (Genesis 1:1)

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons It's you that has the desperation. Twisting my words like creationists must do in order to try and prove their god exists.

I didn't say that the universe "created itself violating the laws of thermodynamics".

I agree that it had a beginning. As yet science has not quite worked out exactly how this happened, but it is searching and is very close to finding out.

Creationists, on the other hand, just say science doesn't know, therefore it must be god, with absolutely no evidence at all.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ....Yes, it had a beginning, and you should know that nothing that exists can explain its existence within itself, that is scientifically impossible. Everything that comes into existence has a cause, this includes the universe. Scientifically speaking the universe had to have had a cause, and its cause had to be something outside of itself. This means something outside of time, matter and space caused the universe to exist. You deny the obvious; again, because of your love of sin.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Again, you confuse science with superstition.

Science does not yet know how the universe started, but does know what happened after the first micro-seconds of that event. Science also knows how stars and planets are formed.

It does not yet know the exact method by which life occurred, but it knows a number of ways that it could have happened, (current research suggests, that will be known very soon), but it does know how life evolved via natural selection. Religion knows NOTHING.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ~you are right, religion knows nothing and cannot be trusted because all religions are man made myths. So why is it that you follow a relgion that is false? I can assure you that salvation is not found in any religion, but only in Jesus Christ. My friend, God does not want a religion from us, He desires a relationship with us because He loves us, but it is our sins that separate us from Him. But God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 1/5. Religion.

Legal Definition:

A religion is a set of beliefs that:

"violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation and/or is not limited to the search for natural causes to explain natural phenomena."

Dictionary definition.

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

2. A personal or institutionalised system grounded in such belief and worship. Cont’d.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 2/5. I think that includes your beliefs. Therefore, I am including what ever it is you want to describe yourself in that group. You may wish to muddy the waters by calling it something else, to avoid being pinned down to providing real evidence, but I think we both know what we mean and I shall continue to use the word religion. You translate it however you like.

Quote: “So why is it that you follow a relgion that is false?”

I take it that you are referring to atheism. Cont’d.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 3/5. Again, please don’t insult my intelligence, or your own, by twisting things around. You know full well that atheism is no more a religion than NOT collecting stamps is a hobby, but I understand your mind is not capable of envisaging anything other than from a viewpoint of faith.

Thank you for admitting that religion knows nothing and by your silence on my comments regarding science, that you agree that science has evidence, whereas your belief has none whatsoever. Cont’d.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 4/5. Quote: “To look at all of creation in its beauty and complexity and then to arrogantly say "God does not exist." ...would be like walking into a museum and gazing at the Mona Lisa painting and then saying "Leonardo Da Vinci never existed"...that would be quite foolish indeed.”

Looking at the world and seeing the work of a supernatural force is an explanation for a belief in a creator in people whose minds are that way inclined, but it is not verifiable evidence. Cont’d.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 5/5. The world can more logically be explained by science.

Foolishness is throwing up strawman arguments trying to compare it with something like the Mona Lisa or that old favourite, the Laptop, of which we have actual documentary evidence of their creation, to try and justify a faith belief for which there is no evidence.

Quote: “Christ died for us.”

Even the bible proves that Jesus was neither born the way christians believe he was nor did he make any real sacrifice for anyone.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 1/2. Jesus sacrificed nothing.

According to your bible. He knew that he would be arrested, Tried and executed, but would rise again from the dead. Matthew 16:21.

As he only spent 6 hrs on the cross, compared with the 2-4 days it could take to die through crucifixion, relatively speaking he didn't even suffer as much as others have done, considering he knew it wouldn't be permanent.

Many atheists have suffered much more and given their lives willingly to help their fellow man Cont'd.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 2/2 These atheists sacrificed themselves with the knowledge that there would be no resurrection for them. A far greater sacrifice than ever your supposed son of god made.

So if Jesus didn't die for your sins. you've still got them.

I think you should re-word that quote from John 3:16.

..."For God so needed the world that He LOANED His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe in Him would be conned into believing they were going to have everlasting life."

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...my friend, you are going to believe as you wish, but I can assure you that the truth still applies to you no matter how passionately you embrace the lie. And in the end, God will indeed give you exactly what you want, separation from Him and for all eternity. You certianly have your chance to repent and believe, you will make your choice and reap what you have sown.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons I agree. The truth will apply to me and you. It just depends on who is embracing the lie. For your "truth" to be valid there has to be a god and so far, you have offered no proof for that at all and the reason for that is simple. There is no proof.

Death is the end of everything for us. There is no evidence of any afterlife. However, as we have all already experienced oblivion without any difficulties, that shouldn't be a problem for any of us, should it?

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ..at least we have found an agreement, we both admit that the truth is true no matter who believes what and the truth applies to everyone. My friend, Hebrews 9:27 is the truth and this truth does apply to all of mankind no matter who believes what - "It is appointed for man to die once, then the judgement." ~ 10 out of 10 people die, and you will be dead alot longer than you are alive in this body. I would consider this deeply before you reject God's gift of grace in Jesus Christ.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Quote: "Hebrews 9:27 is the truth"

More unverified bible claims.

I agree with the 1st part of the statement. "It is appointed for man to die once," but where is your independant verification for the 2nd part of this statement. "then the judgement."

There is no evidence for any judgement.

Because the bible makes extraordinary claims, they must be backed up by extraordinary evidence, otherwise they are just words in the wind.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...when the disciples told Thomas they has seen the risen Lord, He thought like you do, he said - "Unless I see Him, and put my finger in the holes in His hands and touch the wound on His side, I will not believe!" It was 8 days later when Jesus appeared to Him, and Thomas said , "My Lord and My God!" Jesus said to him, "You believe because you have seen, blessed are those who do not see, yet believe." ~ It takes faith my friend, everyone is going to make a choice.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons As I said, words in the wind, from one source, written many years later by people who never ever met Jesus.

If a scientist made some great pronouncement on evolution the basis of one piece of evidence, from one source, without any other independent verification, creationists would be the first to shout foul, as would most other scientists.

Yet you expect everyone to accept your bible, which was written by uneducated, (by modern stands),

superstitious men, without any corroboration.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ..we have already established that Peter and John met Jesus and wrote 1 John and 1 Peter, saying they met with Him and saw Him, you are in denial, and again, it is because you love sin. So youe only alternative is to reject Him who is the light. Jesus said it best - "Light has come into the world but men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons We have established nothing of the sort. You say that John and peter wrote the gospels with nothing to prove it, whereas documents written at the the time by the early church fathers themselves state quite definitely how and why the names were chosen and even they admit that that they have no idea who wrote them and at first were hostile to the idea.

Even the man who suggested they should be given names was threatened with excommunication for his blasphemy.

You're in denial, not me.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...no my friend, you are in denial, the very text of 1 John and 1 Peter testify that they were eye witnesses of Him, they touched Him, saw Him and beheld His glory. Again your love of sin and the lie is so intense, you absolutely must ignore and deny the truth to justify yourself. I pray the Lord frees you from this bondage one day. God bless you.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 1/5. The very text of 1 John and 1 peter proves nothing of the sort unless you can produce corroborating evidence to support it. You cannot say that something is true without anything to back it up, just because it is what you want to believe it, especially when all the documentary evidence points in the other direction.

As for me not accepting it because I want to sin. That is a pathetic argument. I don't believe in the bible because all the actual evidence is against it. Cont'd.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 2/5. I have changed my views on lots of things in my life based on evidence and if you can produce some independent proof, other than the bible, which backs it up, I am more than willing to accept it. However, just quoting the bible on pure blind faith is not proof and don’t you think that blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the supposed creator of human intelligence.

“`Faith` means not wanting to know what is true.” - Friedrich Nietzsche Cont’d.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 3/5. Therefore, I challenge you. Provide the independent evidence. Unlike you, I’m willing to be convinced.

Unlike the creationists, science doesn’t claim to know everything. The problem creationists have, is that with every day that passes, science discovers the true cause of more things that were previously believed to be in the purview of their god, so their belief base is diminishing at an ever-increasing rate. Yet they cling desperately to the fragments left to them. Cont’d.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 4/5. They would rather do that than embrace the true wonder of creation by natural means. They do not realise their loss.

Carl Sagan said:

“You cannot convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it is based on a deep-seated need to believe.”

I think that describes you.

Religious faith not only lacks evidence, its independence from evidence is its pride and joy, shouted from the rooftops. Cont’d.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 5/5. By the way, my "sinful" life has been never knowingly having committed a crime, or ever having come foul of the law. (not even a parking or speeding ticket.) I’ve never knowingly hurt anyone and always helped others wherever I could.

My wife and I are both long time unpaid volunteers for a major International charity looking after the needs of children all over the world.

I’m sorry, but if this is sin, then we're afraid that we’re going to keep doing it as long as we can.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...there you go claiming your own righteousness apart from Jesus Christ. Many men do this. The bible says - "Each man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weigs the hearts." And you said an interesting this, you said "creation by natural means" ~ Awesome! So you admit the universe was created. The funny thing is you say the universe was created by "natural means"...what existed naturally before the universe existed to create the universe? Are you saying the universe created itself?

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 1. I only mentioned what my wife and I do because you, in your arrogant self righteousness, judged me to be a sinner. Sin, by the way is a religious term, not a legal term. I can assure you that even if we were believers, We wouldn't change our behaviour.

Unlike you, science admits it doesn't yet know how the universe started, but it's searching and does know what happened back as far as micro seconds after the initial cause and is getting closer to the initial cause everyday. Cont'd

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 2. Science does know how life grew on this planet and as for the beginnings of life, scientists already know a number of ways in which life could have started. They are now at the stage of working out which particular hypothesis is the correct one and expect to have created the first living cell from in-organic meterials with a couple of years.

Religion, on the other hand, gets all its "knowledge" from the ignorant superstitious writings of iron age peasants and has stopped looking.

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons 3. It’s interesting that you, a so called “christian”, should find that helping underprivileged children throughout the world is:

quote: “claiming your own righteousness apart from Jesus Christ.”

So much for Christian charity.

You are so full of sanctimonious self righteousness, you are no more a christian than I am.

[GaryLyons]

@Darwinsman ...my friend, you are the one filled with self-righteousness, you are the one who spits in Gods face claiming you are right and He is wrong. I know I have no righteousness in and of myself. I know of my need of Jesus Christ. May God bless you and reveal to you your need for His grace in Jesus Christ!

[Darwinsman]

@GaryLyons Again, just a personal attack. no attempt to answer the issue. I cannot "spit in god's face" as you call it as I do not believe he exists.

quote: "I know I have no righteousness in and of myself. I know of my need of Jesus Christ."

I believe you are a sincere person, and it actually saddens me to hear someone adopting this slave like mentality. at the same time both denegrating himself as a person and also placing himself in a special position in nature, under his god's heel. So sad.

[albertlisty]

@Darwinsman, What is your take on Anthony Flew and his conversion to deism?

Many people believe that his research was very valuable and when he converted, many started to claim his data as invalid. Do you feel the same way?

Also what is your take on Gary Hambermas? His argument that he is taking isn't from a Christian perspective but from one of a skeptic. He has said that countless times.

If all the data he is giving is agreeable by the skeptics, how does his data sit with you?

[albertlisty]

@Darwinsman, You said, "Nobody who was writing at the time even mentions him, neither did anyone who ever met him."

Did you watch the video? Paul, though you could debate ever saw Jesus himself, did speak to people that walked with him, when he went back to Jerusalem. Anthony Flew even agreed that there was a historical Jesus that had followers that believed he rose again as well as that Paul converted. Isn't any of this evidence? Is this something that you are just ignoring it?

[albertlisty]

@Darwinsman, You said, "our belief and experience of Jesus is totally subjective and has now been explained by science."

What do you mean by that?

[thefirstzombie1]

u can not prove that resurrection is a really thing it has never happened in recorded history EVER. he listed facts but if u haven't looked resurrection isn't one of them. its all assuming things yes it is a theory but theory's are not always right. the way to disprove the resurrection is to disprove the bible because when the bible is disproved then that means god wasnt right and if god isnt always right then he is not perfect then the religion comes crashing down.

[GaryLyons]

@thefirstzombie1 ~you are right. If you disprove the bible, then you can disprove the resurrection. Mankind has tried to disprove the resurrection & the bible's validity for 2,000 years. Have you ever wondered why the resurrection or the bible has not been disproven? ~ 1 Corinthians 15 - "And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

[ftjax]

this John Ankerberg has an audience of dumb hypocrites skewing the "debate" in favor of the believers. He's always doing this>>>>>>>>>

[LarsTheHonest]

And you, sir, need to update you're covenant. You are aware of the fact that we have a New testament now, right? God doesn't tell me to kill gays, He tells me to love them as human beings. And speaking of being gullible; Do you really believe that EVERYTHING came into being from NOTHING by NOTHING for NO apparent reason? Thats worse than magic, mate.

Do you think God tells me to rape? Be cruel? Have slaves? Murder? R u serious? God tells me to be GOOD and LOVE and FORGIVE, like Jesus does.

[MrBabyMaddox]

Religion is the biggest lie in human history. It has been responsible for more deaths throughout human history than all other unnatural causes combined. For a thousand years the Church was a tyrannical dictatorship that used religion to control the uneducated masses. Free your minds and come into the 21st century

[LarsTheHonest]

You are fooling yourself, really. One thing is to say you dont believe in God. Another is to say that ALL religion is "bullshit." You can be a conservative atheist that values certain things in religion. For instance, keeping Sunday a holy day (even though they don't ACTUALLY consider it holy).

And whats with the "Christians are dumb and uneducated rednecks"? I hear that ALL the freakin time. It may be true for some Christians, but then again we have loads of uneducated atheists as well.

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest If you;re a christian, have you been killing gays as god commanded? Are you so gullible as to believe in magical tree, cursed fruit, a fire-breathing monster, and a talking donkey? What is it the Bible teaches us? - raping, cruelty, slavery and murder. What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married, and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.

Man created god in his own image...on the 1st day.

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest Gravity is the reason the Universe came to be, not god or gods. You need to update your science education. Dont rely on a bronze-age book written by imaginary sheep herders. Imaginary is something YOU WISH for that isn't really there. Reality is, when you stop believing in it, DOESNT GO AWAY.

[LarsTheHonest]

@MrBabyMaddox Gravity is the reason the universe came to be? Really? Gravity? You are aware of the fact that gravity only exists within the universe, yes? Gravity is a part of the universe, just like star dust is. Gravity is responsible for the forming of stars and planets, not the universe itself. God is responsible for that.

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest

Observation: wow, what a nice world we live in

Religious claim: God must have made it

Intelligent response: we don't know, let's find out...

So who needs to prove their point?

Why all-powerful God CANT create things in an INSTANT? Why all-powerful God WAITED MILLIONS of YEARS for his creation to came to life?

Its God plan? or Man's excuse to defend their belief?

[LarsTheHonest]

@MrBabyMaddox I don't, and can't, for that matter, know why God does things the way He does. The argument for a first Cause outweighs yours by far anyway. Its obvious that God created the universe. The question is rather: What God? You won't be converted through science alone (although it can help). You need to read the New testament, which is Gods word to us. You don't need to go through all other religions to know that Christ is the only way. By reading the Gospel you will know that.

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest Prove the Bible WITHOUT using the bible. Coz I can just prove you Incredible Hulk using marvel Comics. I believe and defended god and jesus for 29 yrs until I started questioning my own beliefs and start investigating the truth. Dont you wanna know the truth before u die?

watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

[LarsTheHonest]

Gods word proves itself. It is like a lion; you don't need to defend it. Just let it out and it will defend itself. Without Gods word to us, nobody would believe in Him. A Christian without a Bible is like a car without fuel.

What made you lose your belief in God? Richard Dawkins? Christopher Hitchens? If anything, they've done the opposite for me. They're too obsessed with science, it messes up their heads. Look up John Lennox, Ravi Zacharias or Bill Craig here on YT. Give them a try. :)

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest So, your god created everything out of nothing.. But you argue that something cant come from nothing. If everything must have been created, then God must have been created as well. If God is not created, then everything mustn't have a creator, so why should life or cosmos have one?

A perfect God who creates imperfect humans and an imperfect(and outdated) book is impossible.

[LarsTheHonest]

@MrBabyMaddox Appologizing for the late reply, I simply forgot your message.

I didn't say everything that exists need a creator. I said that everything that begins to exist needs a creator. God is the Alpha and Omega, He is eternal. The Cosmos, however, is not eternal, at least if we believe contemporary cosmology. There are additional powerful arguments that the cause of the universe is or is likely to be the God of Christianity.

[LarsTheHonest]

@MrBabyMaddox God didn't originally create imperfect humans. It was we ourselves that let death and evil into our hearts by disobeying Gods will. As for the Bible; it is not imperfect, and absolutely not outdated.

What kind of faith did you have before you became an atheist? Did you have a relationship with the risen Lord? Or did you simply "believe" in God and Jesus, went to Church from time to time, and that was it? There is a difference there. Perhaps you never really believed?

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest You see, if you were NEVER TAUGHT about him, you would have no idea he even existed- END OF DISCUSSION! Now, in this state where you haven't been corrupted, because you can't explain the world around you, you might therefore MAKE UP your own God to explain what you can't, but in a MILLION years you'd never come up with the name God, Yahweh, Allah, Krishna, Zeus and the teachings that come with it....

[LarsTheHonest]

@MrBabyMaddox If I were never taught about the God of Christianity, I would not believe in Him, no. What is your point? The Christian arabs and jews in the Middle East call God Allah, its just a matter of language. Jesus is not really the name of Christ, it was something like Joshua, or Jeshua. But that's not the point. The point is that we have a relationship with our Creator. No man could make up the Bible, as you say, is true. It was revealed to us by God.

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest You sounded exactly like me when I defend god and jesus when I was a catholic for 29 years. Christianity is just a plagiarized religion, an exact replication of Mithraism, which was in existence over two thousand (2000) years earlier than Christianity. Doubt? Investigate it.



[LarsTheHonest]

@MrBabyMaddox Oh, no. Please don't say you bought in to the Zeitgeist crap. Its been proven to be a bunch of lies.

I haven't checked out any of the ancient writings about Hercules, but it is regarded by everyone that Hercules was a legend. Now, before you jump on me saying "Gotchya! So Jesus must be legend as well!" I would like to say that the majority of contemporary historians and Biblical scholars agrees that Jesus was no mere legend. Many outspoken atheists admit that Jesus probably lived.

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest Why not believe the Hercules story? Similar to Herod who wanted to kill Jesus, Hera wanted to kill Hercules. Like Jesus, Hercules traveled the earth as a mortal helping mankind and performed miraculous deeds. Similar to Jesus who died and rose to heaven, Hercules died, rose to Mt. Olympus and became a god. We have historical people like Hesiod and Plato who mention Hercules in their writings. Joesphus also mentions Hercules (1.15; 8.5.3; 10.11.1)

[MrBabyMaddox]

@LarsTheHonest When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

[RaytownSoClassof2010]

@MrBabyMaddox While you statement sounds pretty witty and clever is is more false than you can imagine.

[turquoiseguy]

@SimpleMan7718 X-rays are a form of electromagnetic radiation. Its unrelated. I was saying that rapid conversion of a solid to energy would result in the release of massive gamma rays. That is the way in which atomic bombs explode. And sure, I guess "God" can do anything he wants, so there is no argument there. As an atheist, I deny that notion, but there is nothing I can do to dispute something claimed to be omnipotent. I am speaking of what we know from nature.

[MasterWok7]

This is a good video; thanks for the upload. I'm on Gary Habermas' side, but I definitely respect Flew. He was a good man (as far as worldly standards go) and an honest person. Rest in peace.

[LarsTheHonest]

Habermas is basically kicking a dead horse here .. No wonder Flew converted to theism before his death.

[chadmcmath]

@LarsTheHonest He converted to deism, not theism.

[LarsTheHonest]

@chadmcmath @MamaMario13 @SymmetricStrings Got it. ;)

[MamaMario13]

@LarsTheHonest deism, not christianity

[giska1000]

@LarsTheHonest no...he newer converted to theism..he became deist before he died.....

[LarsTheHonest]

@giska1000 I know. You are the lucky number 5th that got to tell me Im wrong. :)

[Leivinn20]

Regardless from any viewpoint this issue is reduced to the first cause nature questions, if you are atheist, are you sure that the natural selection have been capable to provide all factual answers?, are you sure your feelings, thoughts and volition are a result from natural laws?...

[Leivinn20]

@Leivinn20 ...should read "...are you sure that the natural selection HAS been capable to provide all factual..."

[Leivinn20]

I think, the issue is not "did Jesus resurrect?", at the contrary, the issue "did Jesus resurrect supernaturally", there are a lot of case of clinical death, which resurrected.

[Chaowdur]

please post the q&a

[Law19157]

You suppose the resurrection is the best evidence for God's existence?

[MrPaulwalrus]

Lol a lot of strange arguments are used to try and deny the resurrection. This wouldn't surprise me except they are from the same people who believe in a quantum vacuum, go figure.

[turquoiseguy]

@SimpleMan7718 I'm afraid not. In order to convert matter to energy you would get the same effect as any nuclear explosion gamma ray emissions (nuclear energy; very hazardous). You can't just convert it, you need to force a conversion. Furthermore, energy is not "spiritual". Energy is nothing more than potential to work and minds cannot operate as energy with no brain as a catalyst. And the speed of the molecules is not the determining factor in mass-energy equivalence, it is the speed of light.

[jimmo42]

@plptous You do realize that people have been using those versus or ones like them for at least a thousand years to "prove" the prophetic ability of the Bible? Of course, you do! Everyone know that. You were just having a little fun with us, right?

[the1qb]

Flew is one of the most reasonable atheists I have ever seen. I wish atheists were as reasonable as him.

[stephjh2006]

@the1qb He isn't atheist anymore, he renounced atheism and is now theist

[the1qb]

@stephjh2006 I just worry about the mental stability of him at the time of his conversion. It seemed rather odd that he changed his mind while he was starting to lose some of his senility. But I nevertheless hope that he did

[5starsoldier]

@the1qb Yea, sophisticated atheists are rare these days.