why dont all religious people belive in the oldest bible there is, and not the one thats been changed for thousands of times and lost some meanings in translations
if you are TRUE BELIEVER you still believe earth is flat as the earliest bible says !
truth is that bible is being changed everytime there is false information that have been proved... one of the main reasons of historical book burning events to remove old bible "versions" ver.1 was full of mistakes, now ver 4145.145 and counting.
@TranceCore83 I don't see how you can say there are so many versions. The original manuscripts were copied very meticulously. Trying to change the Bible in during OT times would get you stoned. As for the NT, the books of the Bible we have today were copied and spread throughout the Mediterranean, and we have access to all these copies, and they are all the same, so it is virtually impossible for someone to have changed them.
religion started out as a basis for hope and faith and inspiration. unfortunately it happened to inspire some pretty sick and twisted shit. this is not mandaclaire btw, this is her atheist brother who follows the belief of being a good person
I see, but that doesn't prove anything. If people fight wars over religion, then that just shows that people are sinful and need a Savior. What makes Christianity true of false is whether Jesus resurrected. If people fight wars, then that doesn't put Jesus back into the grave. You need to focus on the resurrection, because that's what's important, and not get distracted by all this other stuff.
People may fight wars but that doesnt change what Jesus originally did. Jesus preached a message of peace. Jesus said "Love your enemies" which even today is considered to be radically peaceful. Also, Jesus willingly took on your sin and suffered the infinite punishment that you deserved for rebelling against an infinite, eternal God, when He could've justly allowed us all to perish. Please dont let sinful people distract you from the most precious gift of eternal salvation.
these videos were obviously created by a christian. a christian who refuses to believe anything else but wut is shoved up under ur nose. there is actually plenty of evidence that wut the zeitgeist points out is true. u refuse to believe jesus never existed. the funny thing is. there is a figure in history, actual history that has no characteristics of jesus except for the part of him being a wandering teacher. why the HELL do all the parallels have to be precise. jesus never existed.
@mindaclaire there is no evidence of what zeitgeist says is true or at least not the part where they are trying to discredit jesus and christianity. even i know this and i am not a christian. it sounds like yu have been brainwashed by zeitgeist lol
it's just pathetic to think jesus will save your life. this discussion leads to nothing as long as you don't stop argumenting the same way each and every time. we all cannot take this whole thingso narrow-minded if we really want to start comprehending everything around us!
@TheKoolic Jesus didnt die to saves lives but to save souls. We will all die one day whether we believe in Jesus or not, but we will all spend eternity in either heaven with God or in hell separated from God. Jesus died because everyone of us has done wrong, and deserves hell, but Jesus took on our punishment at the cross so that we could be forgiven, and spend eternity with God in bliss, and not eternity in hell suffering. It's the greatest gift and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted
@TheKoolic wow, proof of even more ignorance. exercise critical thinking much?
our universe is supposedly 10 mathematical dimmensions and time (eleven dimmensional)-
yet the science you speak of is little more than the fable of 'three blind men trying to decide what an elephant is':
we can only percieve 3 dimmensions and time (*all of this is supposedly linear and constant), and our observations no matter how sophisticated our tools occur only inside these limitations. we are inside the box.
@TheKoolic Well, let me ask you this. Why don't you believe? What exactly is wrong with religion and what would you consider to be proof of a particular religion?
@ggcage "Why don't you believe? What exactly is wrong with religion and what would you consider to be proof of a particular religion?"
What's wrong with religion, as opposed to the 10 dimensional universe model, is that there is evidence that physics is useful for prediction while religion is simply useless. There are simply no reasons to adopt religious worldviews, but there might be a reason to accept scientific models as useful(not "true") if they somehow account for testable phenomena..
@Gnomefro You are seriously ignorant, my friend. You believe fundamentalists are the only adherents to religion that exist. This is wrong. Religion does NOT enter into conflict with science outside of Islam and most streams of Judaism and fundamentalism. Nearly ALL sciencemen are Christians or religious; we are not living in the ignorant middle ages any more. I know VERY FEW Atheists involved in science, in fact, I only know them indirectly. As a man of science, you should read my book.
@ggcage However, in addition to the motivation to adopting them being zero, all the big religions also have demonstrable problems. Not only do you destroy your epistemic foundations for trusting observed reality(That is natural law etc) because you can never distinguish between supernatural and natural causes, but religions also provide "moral" motivations for damaging acts such as opposing stem cell research, condom campaigns against aids, science education etc.
@ggcage In short, false beliefs have consequences, both directly and indirectly, and you don't have to pull out the extremes such as abortion clinic bombers of suicide bombers to demonstrate it. Any false belief can function as a premise in a deductive argument and produce more false beliefs. Because of this it's wildly irresponsible to pollute one's belief structure with unsupported ideas. Look at halechad in this comment section making nonsensical claims for example.
@ggcage He's reciting literature, yet thinks he has knowledge about reality. That is quite simply delusional. For a religion to be believable, the divine would have to manifest in some predictable way that could be tested. Say ritual magic working etc. That would have given religions roughly the same status as your 10 dimensional hypothesis. However, religions are obscurantist on purpose and entirely devoid of content in that sense. That's why they're called religions.
I see, but God isn't going to bow and scrape and be "predictable" to the whims of man. There is plenty of evidence (prophecy, the apostles' martyrdom, the fine tuned universe, existence itself, ect.) of God and the Bible. You need only to seek God. The Bible has hundreds of prophecies, plus the apostles gave their lives for the gospel. They were with Jesus constantly. They would've known whether or not they saw / ate with / touched Him after He resurrected.
I realize that there are a lot of people who twist religion for their own greedy purposes, but that doesn't change the actual truth. Even if every "Christian" were evil, that still would not change the historical fact that Jesus died and resurrected 2000 years ago. Please don’t get distracted by those sorts of things. They do not change the fact that we desperately need Jesus. Christ’s sacrifice is the greatest gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
@halechad That's very true. A lot of people believe what they believe what they believe only because they hear it from other people. They don't actually read the Bible. While there are some very good people to get spiritual advice from and we can learn a very good bit from other Christians, there is nothing that can replace reading the Bible. It's so deep. It has so much in it that really speaks volumes about life, wisdom, God and how He offers the one path to salvation through Jesus Christ.
@TheKoolic Why is that a poor statement? Truth is not relative. I know it sounds politically incorrect but the Bible is clear that there is no name other than Jesus Christ by which anybody can be saved. Jesus is the only way to heaven. Christ's sacrifice was the greatest gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
Also, the 3 kings are never mentioned anywhere in the Bible. They are in folk songs, but anything that is outside the Bible cannot be trusted as Christian doctrine.
Although I agree that not all that is presented in the Zeitgeist program is factual, your supposed argumentative retaliation is not only laced with Christian bias, it only informs that "Zeitgeist is incorrect because Jesus told me so." The truth in the matter results in the last few moments in this video. If you spent more time consolidating more evidence (which excludes all the pro-Christian "sources" you list) instead of biased opinion then your argument would merit a degree of creditability.
Hey man, thanks for pointing that out. You went to great lengths to defend your beliefs. I'd love to point you towards the project avalon interview with Inelia Benz wich intreaged me but she does not speak from any religion. Also for factual information about the rulers of the world i'd like to point you towards the youtube vids of dutchsinse. Please watch them all and help avoid larger than 9/11 tragedy in the U.S. Or pray for this man as he is a genuine light warrior. jandatkan@gmail.com
Something that really pisses me off is that many christians never stop to consider the fact that they could be wrong. Many scientist have to consider this, why can't christians ever do the same? Also it seems to me that Zeitgeist isn't trying to prove that god doesn't exist rather they are try to prove christianity is a MYTH.
@MetalheadMr666 I have asked myself "What if Christianity is wrong." There were times when I had a lot of doubt, but I realized that there is a lot of evidence for Christianity, and I've tried to post some of it on this channel. If I'm wrong and there is no God, then I haven't lost anything. I would've lived my whole life being wrong, but it would've been a fulfilling life. However, if an atheist is wrong, they would've traded eternity in heaven for eternity in hell. Its something to think about
@ggcage Well i apologize for saying that. Sorry i haven't replied to your other comment yet. I have been very busy with school. But i promise i will get to it because i have some questions. Like i said though, its not that i don't believe in god, its just that i think Christianity has some weak points. I understand that some argue that i should have faith. I know why they say that, but i can't prove anything with faith. See what i'm saying man?
I see, but there is a big difference between blind faith and the kind of faith that God wants us to have. If God wanted us to have blind faith, then why would Jesus have performed miracles? Why would God have put so much prophecy in the Old Testament? Why would God have have given us the testimonies that came from the apostles behind eyewitnesses who were willing to die for their message?
Also, there is nothing illogical about faith. We all use faith everyday. For example, it is theoretically possible, though extremely unlikely, that the world around us is not real, but is in fact a very elaborate simulation in a computer program, much like in the movie "The Matrix". Now, there is no way to prove or disprove such a theory, but most people don't believe it to be true, because they take it on faith that this world is actually real.
@ggcage I must admit that you just had a very good point. But anyway, let me collect my thoughts and i shall reply to the original message you sent me.
What about the argument that the first writings about Jesus didn't emerge until four or five decades AFTER the supposed time of his death? Or the argument that no one who wrote about Jesus had ever actually met him? Or the fact that allegorical writings were extremely common around that time? Or the complete switch in God's attitude between old and new testaments, almost completely discrediting any claim to divine inspiration, and instead, making it incredibly obvious that it was written by man.
What you have to realize is that this wasn't the information age. Things didn't get written and spread immediately. Also, the earliest writings we have aren't necessarily the earliest that existed. John and Peter did meet Jesus face to face, Allegorical writings may have common but I find it extremely difficult to believe the gospel was allegorical considering verses like 2 John 1:7. God's attitude did not change. His anger towards sin and mercy can be found in both Testaments
4:02 on... you literally JUST finished a whole rant about Zeitgeist's lack of evidence (and you began this series of videos claiming you had an UNBIASED opinion on the matter -- when you are clearly biased in favor of Christianity) So since you asked Zeitgeist where's his proof, I'll ask you where's your proof? How do you know that Jesus didn't just die on the cross for, say, his family and loved ones? Can you prove he died for me? Can you prove he knew I would exist? No, you can't.
@OverGryph Well, the main proof behind that would be to prove that Jesus was the Son of God sent to atone for the sins of mankind. There is quite a bit of evidence for this on my channel (videos and links in descriptions) if you're interested, but probably the two biggest bits of evidence are A) The Bible contains tons of prophecy and B) the apostles willingly sacrificed themselves for what they saw, not what they were taught as are all other martyrs. You really cannot have a better witness
@OverGryph sir i know wanting evidence is a good thing, but trying to prove something like the existence of God, or that Jesus died for us and loves us is something that is simply impossible to accept unless you have faith. faith is a part of everyday life. if you don't understand that, it would be wrong if i asked "do your parents love you" and you said yes i could say something rediculous like "no they don't prove it to me!" its really impossible to prove that, but i know he was a real person
@skaterjoint As far as I know, everything "before christ" was carbon-dated to get exact numbers. They really didn't have a way to tell time as the years passed, except for how many years had gone by while the king/queen/leader was in power. In fact, a "foot" (measurement unit) used to be a king's foot length. It constantly changed from generation to generation as the culture adopted different kings. Probably the same thing happened with their chronological history.
@skaterjoint In fact, I was taught in a College-level "World Religions" class that the BC/AD era was something that a man (I forget his name) was ordered by a ruler/leader (whose name also escapes me) to "produce a method to tell ttime [year from year] and base it on a historic event that would be known worldwide," and the event that was picked was the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and my instructor informed me that he discovered somewhere the calendar is off by about 5 years.
It's not a compliment. Soctrates wasn't WISE, per se.
All he knew how to do was argue, contradict and de-bunk his fellow philosiphers theories about life, exsitence, etc. until they either conceeded or looked foolish
Then when they asked Socrates "okay, so if our answers are WRONG what's the RIGHT answer?" what did Scorates say?
"I don't know. I'm just as stupid as YOU are."
Knowing you DON'T know does not make you right or smarter than anyone else.
I know I spent the entire video debunking, but I do have quite a bit of evidence on this channel
A big piece of evidence is prophecy. For example, many details of Jesus' life were predicted centuries before His birth, and all these writings have been confirmed to have been written before His birth by archaeological evidence
Anyways if you're interested in that, I have a video called "The Bible: Fact or False" and there are also 2 links in my channel description that list prophecies
@ggcage Do you think that the people who wrote the books that make up the New Testament had ever read the Old Testament? If so, wouldn't a logical conclusion be that it was more of a "fill in the blanks" exercise than a historical account? There is a four or five decade gap between Jesus' supposed death and the first writings about him... Why does no one find this odd?
Another big piece of evidence is the testimony of the apostles. The apostles saw Jesus face to face. They were with Him constantly for three years. They should have known whether or not He was the Messiah. They went out and willingly risked their lives over and over and were killed for the sake of the gospel without any hope of getting worldly gain from it. You really cannot have a better testimony and no other religion has eyewitnesses/martyrs like the apostles.
So naturally, as you have gone to so much trouble to produce evidence that Zeitgeist has NO proof, you, of COURSE, have some proof of your OWN to support the evidence that there WAS a man named Jesus who turned water into wine, walked on water, healed the sick, raised people from the dead was crucified and rose after 3 days, correct?
Will this be detailed written records or actual eye witnesses?
@4256573 I see, but there really is evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died for the sins of humanity. I have several videos on it, but there are two main pieces of evidence. The first is that the apostles were willing to die for the message that they preached. The were with Jesus constantly, and obviously believed Him to be the Son of God. They should have known better than anybody. The second is prophecy. Details about Jesus' life were predicted in the Old Testament centuries before His birth
although i don't necessarily agree with all of it, It does raise some interesting points that i think were needed to refute the original zeitgeist. Although i don't necessarily believe that the bible was divinely inspired, i can respect the teachings of Jesus well as the teachings of the old testament. it is, however, important to show that same respect to other religions/non religions as well. everyone is just trying to figure things out for themselves and don't need to be condemned.
@tankgirl211 Im not trying to condemn anyone. I'm just trying to point out that Zeitgeist's refutation does not hold. What makes Zeitgeist, and other projects like it so dangerous is that it leads people away from Christ, the only hope of salvation for man. Many people believe that this idea of "Jesus as the only way" is intolerant, but it is not. Telling people how to get to heaven is an act of love. Christ's sacrifice is the greatest gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted
@dialchemy You know, there are other ways of dismantling the Bible besides making shit up and making some more shit up. It seems really suspicious that Zeitgeist would use false information in the first section of the first movie in the series, not to mention the 9/11 crap. If they need to lie this much to sell their idea, it definitely isn't worth buying.
@OutlawGrrl Yeah, the thing that bothered me is this video is promoting "Zeitgeist" to be false when its only the bible section that it refers to. Personally i enjoyed Zeitgeist and i'd urge all to watch it and the sequal. Then go and search "cutting through the matrix" and listen to what Mr Alan Watt has to say , But, remember good people of Earth, in the end none of this will matter :-)
That's very true. People cannot comprehend an infinite God. But that doesn't mean you should just completely ignore God. God does have a will for mankind, and He has made it known in His Word. There is plenty of evidence for the divine inspiration of the Bible such as the testimonies of martyrs, the impact the Bible has had on history, and prophecy. If you seek after God, you will find God, but if you seek to misunderstand, you will get nowhere.
The church has done a lot of good in the world, like hospitals, charities, etc. However, it is sad but true that it has also done some evil things. However, you cannot judge God by the deeds of imperfect men, who may or may not really be Christians. People have always twisted perfectly good causes for their own selfish gain. It isn't limited to just religion, and it doesn't make the cause any less valid.
I see, but there is evidence that the gospels really were written by eyewitnesses (or those who had direct contact with them). For one thing, the 2nd century church, which would have had people who knew the apostles, unanimously supported the traditional authorship. If the gospels were written by someone else, then somebody would've objected. Also, there are references to the NT written by church fathers in the late first century, indicating that the NT was written earlier, and not later
@1337chsacker I see, but you're not going to get a one gigapixel photo. Man is separated from God because of sin, and risks being separated completely for eternity if He does not accept the grace of Christ. God has given us all we need to accept Jesus. If you truly seek after God, you will find God. But if you seek to misunderstand, then you'll only deceive yourself.
In every other religion, man works his way to heaven. But in Christianity, man is helpless, and it is only because God has done all the work through Christ, than man has any hope of ever being with God. The lack of emphasis on man is evidence that it is not from man. Christ's death was the most precious gift ever given and it'd be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
Ok, there may be some similarities, but that doesn't make anything untrue. If you compare any two pieces of literature of substantial length there will be similarities. It is unavoidable. However, in order for Christianity to be a copycat religion, the core beliefs must be equivalent to something older. The core beliefs of Christianity are so different from older religions, that it is in fact, evidence that it is not manmade.
I am disgusted in your blind support of christianity. I will give you some credit as when i watched zeigeist I beleaved it and you have bought up some good points as to it being twisted. So now i dont beleave it so much. Im open minded to anything. You are not. How about this for a religon I am god. Wanna know why? because if I wasnt born nothing would exsist to me so I created this world in my eyes. more beleavable then walking on water.
More believable then walking on water? I will admit that such a claim more sound a bit much at first, but one thing you have to realize is that if God couldn't do things that are physically impossible, then by definition He really wouldn't be God. Also, there is a lot of evidence of God and the Bible out there from prophecy to history to Biblical wisdom. If you seek God, then you'll find God. But if you seek to misunderstand to justify what you hold true, then you'll get nowhere.
Logic and Intelligence will lead you to God. What most have today is ignorance and fallacies. Those who denounce God, 9 out of 10 times haven't even stopped to read a single book out of the bible. The bible is not inspirational. It does not teach you anything, other then what you already feel, knowing right from wrong. Pick up the Bible, read it, and watch as your logic fails to the simple truth. You'll find yourself "Going oh shit, that makes a whole lot more sense..." on many accounts.
I don't understand. If Zeitgeist is moslty incorrect, and Christianity is shown not to be connected with other forms of Sun worship, than how can Christianity be a pagan Sun religion?
@ggcage One thing is Jesus from Nazareth and another is God. There existed a man in Nazareth, son of Joseph the carpenter, named Jesus, who started a religious way of thinking and living. He was helped by some followers he called disciples. Another thing is God. There is some historical evidence of the existence of such man. But there is not evidence whatsoever of the existence of God. So, what if zeitgeist is wrong? Who cares? Believing in a Man or a deity.. That IS wrong.
@jolulipa There is quite a bit of evidence of God, and that Christ is His Son. There is historical evidence as well as prophecy foretelling Jesus' coming centuries prior to His life, and has been shown to have been written beforehand through archeology. There are a couple of links in my channel description that list these prophecies in detail, if you're interested.
Your simply becoming an antagonist, yet offer up nothing to support your argument. Under the Law of Logic you're the trier of the fact, and must present evidence to support the existence of the fact, or the fact is not true. So far, you've accomplished merely taking up space on a hard drive, and wasting the author the video's time too write a response.
did you just watch the same videos i did because it's not and it explains how it's not. the bible was written in hebrew, aramaic, and greek it was only translated in english where the words sun and son sound the same i doubt they sound the same in those languages.
nunyabusiness3 has replied to your comment on Zeitgeist Proven False (Part 5 of 5):
"Can you find a truly scholarly source that supports Zeitgeist?"- can you do the same for the bible? How about scientific evidence- REAL science not that a talking donkey says so.
If you are looking for a solid argument- you don't really have one. You need to include sources that are historical and from different perspectives. You can't just list a bunch of Christian sites- of course they are going to look good for you. If a corporation wants to sell their product they aren't going to refer you to they're competitor.
Pantheon(dot)org is an online encyclopedia of various mythical figures. It has absolutely no religious ties. It isn't tied to Zeitgeist either. It simply tells the myths for the sake of history. If you look up these figures on Pantheon (or any other secular source that isn't related to Zeitgeist) you'll see that Zeitgeist is full of lies. Can you find a truly scholarly source that supports Zeitgeist?
I see what you're saying, but I am refering to the God of the Bible. The one that sent His Son to die for man's sins so that they could have their sins washed away and be reconciled to Him.
However there have been quite a few religions since civilization, however, the Bible has some things that other holy books just don't. A good example is prophecy. The Bible is loaded with specific prophecy. There more about that on the channel.
Also the Bible has a lot of very unconventional wisdom. For instance, Jesus said "Love thy enemies" this totally goes against man's reasoning, yet at the same time, forgiveness is the only way to really move on after we've been truly hurt. To me it shows that its God's wisdom, and not man's reasoning.
"Can you find a truly scholarly source that supports Zeitgeist?"- can you do the same for the bible? How about scientific evidence- REAL science not that a talking donkey says so.
One thing you should realize is that if God couldn't do things that were physically impossible, then He really wouldn't be very much of a God.
Anyways, the earliest manuscripts about Jesus are closer to His life than for almost any historical figure. There's more evidence for Jesus than for almost any historical figure. If you're really interested you can see my videos "Jesus Christ: Fact or False?" Parts 1&2
this is a very very very good video....congratulations!!! :)
Radu747 7 hours ago
why dont all religious people belive in the oldest bible there is, and not the one thats been changed for thousands of times and lost some meanings in translations
if you are TRUE BELIEVER you still believe earth is flat as the earliest bible says !
truth is that bible is being changed everytime there is false information that have been proved... one of the main reasons of historical book burning events to remove old bible "versions" ver.1 was full of mistakes, now ver 4145.145 and counting.
TranceCore83 1 week ago
@TranceCore83 I don't see how you can say there are so many versions. The original manuscripts were copied very meticulously. Trying to change the Bible in during OT times would get you stoned. As for the NT, the books of the Bible we have today were copied and spread throughout the Mediterranean, and we have access to all these copies, and they are all the same, so it is virtually impossible for someone to have changed them.
ggcage 6 days ago
religion started out as a basis for hope and faith and inspiration. unfortunately it happened to inspire some pretty sick and twisted shit. this is not mandaclaire btw, this is her atheist brother who follows the belief of being a good person
mindaclaire 2 months ago
@mindaclaire
Part I
I see, but that doesn't prove anything. If people fight wars over religion, then that just shows that people are sinful and need a Savior. What makes Christianity true of false is whether Jesus resurrected. If people fight wars, then that doesn't put Jesus back into the grave. You need to focus on the resurrection, because that's what's important, and not get distracted by all this other stuff.
ggcage 2 months ago
@mindaclaire
Part II
People may fight wars but that doesnt change what Jesus originally did. Jesus preached a message of peace. Jesus said "Love your enemies" which even today is considered to be radically peaceful. Also, Jesus willingly took on your sin and suffered the infinite punishment that you deserved for rebelling against an infinite, eternal God, when He could've justly allowed us all to perish. Please dont let sinful people distract you from the most precious gift of eternal salvation.
ggcage 2 months ago
atleast not the one u believe existed
mindaclaire 2 months ago
these videos were obviously created by a christian. a christian who refuses to believe anything else but wut is shoved up under ur nose. there is actually plenty of evidence that wut the zeitgeist points out is true. u refuse to believe jesus never existed. the funny thing is. there is a figure in history, actual history that has no characteristics of jesus except for the part of him being a wandering teacher. why the HELL do all the parallels have to be precise. jesus never existed.
mindaclaire 2 months ago
@mindaclaire there is no evidence of what zeitgeist says is true or at least not the part where they are trying to discredit jesus and christianity. even i know this and i am not a christian. it sounds like yu have been brainwashed by zeitgeist lol
elg30power 1 week ago
it's just pathetic to think jesus will save your life. this discussion leads to nothing as long as you don't stop argumenting the same way each and every time. we all cannot take this whole thingso narrow-minded if we really want to start comprehending everything around us!
TheKoolic 4 months ago
@TheKoolic Jesus didnt die to saves lives but to save souls. We will all die one day whether we believe in Jesus or not, but we will all spend eternity in either heaven with God or in hell separated from God. Jesus died because everyone of us has done wrong, and deserves hell, but Jesus took on our punishment at the cross so that we could be forgiven, and spend eternity with God in bliss, and not eternity in hell suffering. It's the greatest gift and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted
ggcage 4 months ago
@TheKoolic wow, proof of even more ignorance. exercise critical thinking much?
our universe is supposedly 10 mathematical dimmensions and time (eleven dimmensional)-
yet the science you speak of is little more than the fable of 'three blind men trying to decide what an elephant is':
we can only percieve 3 dimmensions and time (*all of this is supposedly linear and constant), and our observations no matter how sophisticated our tools occur only inside these limitations. we are inside the box.
halechad 4 months ago
@halechad why you are telling me this? i don't believe in jesus and religions at all mate
TheKoolic 4 months ago
@TheKoolic Well, let me ask you this. Why don't you believe? What exactly is wrong with religion and what would you consider to be proof of a particular religion?
ggcage 4 months ago
@ggcage "Why don't you believe? What exactly is wrong with religion and what would you consider to be proof of a particular religion?"
What's wrong with religion, as opposed to the 10 dimensional universe model, is that there is evidence that physics is useful for prediction while religion is simply useless. There are simply no reasons to adopt religious worldviews, but there might be a reason to accept scientific models as useful(not "true") if they somehow account for testable phenomena..
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@Gnomefro You are seriously ignorant, my friend. You believe fundamentalists are the only adherents to religion that exist. This is wrong. Religion does NOT enter into conflict with science outside of Islam and most streams of Judaism and fundamentalism. Nearly ALL sciencemen are Christians or religious; we are not living in the ignorant middle ages any more. I know VERY FEW Atheists involved in science, in fact, I only know them indirectly. As a man of science, you should read my book.
ganondorf59 2 months ago
@ggcage However, in addition to the motivation to adopting them being zero, all the big religions also have demonstrable problems. Not only do you destroy your epistemic foundations for trusting observed reality(That is natural law etc) because you can never distinguish between supernatural and natural causes, but religions also provide "moral" motivations for damaging acts such as opposing stem cell research, condom campaigns against aids, science education etc.
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@ggcage In short, false beliefs have consequences, both directly and indirectly, and you don't have to pull out the extremes such as abortion clinic bombers of suicide bombers to demonstrate it. Any false belief can function as a premise in a deductive argument and produce more false beliefs. Because of this it's wildly irresponsible to pollute one's belief structure with unsupported ideas. Look at halechad in this comment section making nonsensical claims for example.
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@ggcage He's reciting literature, yet thinks he has knowledge about reality. That is quite simply delusional. For a religion to be believable, the divine would have to manifest in some predictable way that could be tested. Say ritual magic working etc. That would have given religions roughly the same status as your 10 dimensional hypothesis. However, religions are obscurantist on purpose and entirely devoid of content in that sense. That's why they're called religions.
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@Gnomefro
Part I
I see, but God isn't going to bow and scrape and be "predictable" to the whims of man. There is plenty of evidence (prophecy, the apostles' martyrdom, the fine tuned universe, existence itself, ect.) of God and the Bible. You need only to seek God. The Bible has hundreds of prophecies, plus the apostles gave their lives for the gospel. They were with Jesus constantly. They would've known whether or not they saw / ate with / touched Him after He resurrected.
ggcage 3 months ago
@Gnomefro
Part II
I realize that there are a lot of people who twist religion for their own greedy purposes, but that doesn't change the actual truth. Even if every "Christian" were evil, that still would not change the historical fact that Jesus died and resurrected 2000 years ago. Please don’t get distracted by those sorts of things. They do not change the fact that we desperately need Jesus. Christ’s sacrifice is the greatest gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
ggcage 3 months ago
@halechad Let me ask you something, do you believe that God perhaps exists in one of these higher dimensions, outside of our 3-dimensional realm?
ggcage 4 months ago
@ggcage nope. God is not a space man or any other nonsense.
If one wants to know god, spend some time reading about him and what he said,
I hear that one can also talk to him and get answers back...
a christian only knows his god as well as he knows god's words.
meaning, most of the world does not know god at all.
He is the alpha and omega. there is no where one can go to escape him.
There is nothing secret from him, no matter how dark, no matter how hidden.
halechad 4 months ago
@halechad That's very true. A lot of people believe what they believe what they believe only because they hear it from other people. They don't actually read the Bible. While there are some very good people to get spiritual advice from and we can learn a very good bit from other Christians, there is nothing that can replace reading the Bible. It's so deep. It has so much in it that really speaks volumes about life, wisdom, God and how He offers the one path to salvation through Jesus Christ.
ggcage 3 months ago
Between the lines you say, christianity is king, god bless? poor statement mate!
TheKoolic 4 months ago
@TheKoolic Why is that a poor statement? Truth is not relative. I know it sounds politically incorrect but the Bible is clear that there is no name other than Jesus Christ by which anybody can be saved. Jesus is the only way to heaven. Christ's sacrifice was the greatest gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
Also, the 3 kings are never mentioned anywhere in the Bible. They are in folk songs, but anything that is outside the Bible cannot be trusted as Christian doctrine.
ggcage 4 months ago
Although I agree that not all that is presented in the Zeitgeist program is factual, your supposed argumentative retaliation is not only laced with Christian bias, it only informs that "Zeitgeist is incorrect because Jesus told me so." The truth in the matter results in the last few moments in this video. If you spent more time consolidating more evidence (which excludes all the pro-Christian "sources" you list) instead of biased opinion then your argument would merit a degree of creditability.
iargwath 5 months ago
Hey man, thanks for pointing that out. You went to great lengths to defend your beliefs. I'd love to point you towards the project avalon interview with Inelia Benz wich intreaged me but she does not speak from any religion. Also for factual information about the rulers of the world i'd like to point you towards the youtube vids of dutchsinse. Please watch them all and help avoid larger than 9/11 tragedy in the U.S. Or pray for this man as he is a genuine light warrior. jandatkan@gmail.com
TheProsperer 5 months ago
@TheProsperer Thank you for your kind words. What exactly is the purpose of project avalon and why is it important?
ggcage 5 months ago
Something that really pisses me off is that many christians never stop to consider the fact that they could be wrong. Many scientist have to consider this, why can't christians ever do the same? Also it seems to me that Zeitgeist isn't trying to prove that god doesn't exist rather they are try to prove christianity is a MYTH.
MetalheadMr666 6 months ago
@MetalheadMr666 I have asked myself "What if Christianity is wrong." There were times when I had a lot of doubt, but I realized that there is a lot of evidence for Christianity, and I've tried to post some of it on this channel. If I'm wrong and there is no God, then I haven't lost anything. I would've lived my whole life being wrong, but it would've been a fulfilling life. However, if an atheist is wrong, they would've traded eternity in heaven for eternity in hell. Its something to think about
ggcage 6 months ago
@ggcage Well i apologize for saying that. Sorry i haven't replied to your other comment yet. I have been very busy with school. But i promise i will get to it because i have some questions. Like i said though, its not that i don't believe in god, its just that i think Christianity has some weak points. I understand that some argue that i should have faith. I know why they say that, but i can't prove anything with faith. See what i'm saying man?
MetalheadMr666 6 months ago
@MetalheadMr666
Part I
I see, but there is a big difference between blind faith and the kind of faith that God wants us to have. If God wanted us to have blind faith, then why would Jesus have performed miracles? Why would God have put so much prophecy in the Old Testament? Why would God have have given us the testimonies that came from the apostles behind eyewitnesses who were willing to die for their message?
ggcage 6 months ago
@MetalheadMr666
Part II
Also, there is nothing illogical about faith. We all use faith everyday. For example, it is theoretically possible, though extremely unlikely, that the world around us is not real, but is in fact a very elaborate simulation in a computer program, much like in the movie "The Matrix". Now, there is no way to prove or disprove such a theory, but most people don't believe it to be true, because they take it on faith that this world is actually real.
ggcage 6 months ago
@ggcage I must admit that you just had a very good point. But anyway, let me collect my thoughts and i shall reply to the original message you sent me.
MetalheadMr666 6 months ago
What about the argument that the first writings about Jesus didn't emerge until four or five decades AFTER the supposed time of his death? Or the argument that no one who wrote about Jesus had ever actually met him? Or the fact that allegorical writings were extremely common around that time? Or the complete switch in God's attitude between old and new testaments, almost completely discrediting any claim to divine inspiration, and instead, making it incredibly obvious that it was written by man.
Toastpoi 6 months ago
@Toastpoi
Part I
What you have to realize is that this wasn't the information age. Things didn't get written and spread immediately. Also, the earliest writings we have aren't necessarily the earliest that existed. John and Peter did meet Jesus face to face, Allegorical writings may have common but I find it extremely difficult to believe the gospel was allegorical considering verses like 2 John 1:7. God's attitude did not change. His anger towards sin and mercy can be found in both Testaments
ggcage 6 months ago
@Toastpoi
Part II
Also, there was a lot about Jesus before the gospels got written down. I don't have the space to go over it here, but if you're interested...
watch?v=NxiddSTtKpA
ggcage 6 months ago
4:02 on... you literally JUST finished a whole rant about Zeitgeist's lack of evidence (and you began this series of videos claiming you had an UNBIASED opinion on the matter -- when you are clearly biased in favor of Christianity) So since you asked Zeitgeist where's his proof, I'll ask you where's your proof? How do you know that Jesus didn't just die on the cross for, say, his family and loved ones? Can you prove he died for me? Can you prove he knew I would exist? No, you can't.
OverGryph 6 months ago
@OverGryph Well, the main proof behind that would be to prove that Jesus was the Son of God sent to atone for the sins of mankind. There is quite a bit of evidence for this on my channel (videos and links in descriptions) if you're interested, but probably the two biggest bits of evidence are A) The Bible contains tons of prophecy and B) the apostles willingly sacrificed themselves for what they saw, not what they were taught as are all other martyrs. You really cannot have a better witness
ggcage 6 months ago
@OverGryph sir i know wanting evidence is a good thing, but trying to prove something like the existence of God, or that Jesus died for us and loves us is something that is simply impossible to accept unless you have faith. faith is a part of everyday life. if you don't understand that, it would be wrong if i asked "do your parents love you" and you said yes i could say something rediculous like "no they don't prove it to me!" its really impossible to prove that, but i know he was a real person
conraddoavil 6 months ago
how did the term "BC" come to be if there was no christ to begin with? o.o
skaterjoint 7 months ago
@skaterjoint As far as I know, everything "before christ" was carbon-dated to get exact numbers. They really didn't have a way to tell time as the years passed, except for how many years had gone by while the king/queen/leader was in power. In fact, a "foot" (measurement unit) used to be a king's foot length. It constantly changed from generation to generation as the culture adopted different kings. Probably the same thing happened with their chronological history.
OverGryph 6 months ago
@skaterjoint In fact, I was taught in a College-level "World Religions" class that the BC/AD era was something that a man (I forget his name) was ordered by a ruler/leader (whose name also escapes me) to "produce a method to tell ttime [year from year] and base it on a historic event that would be known worldwide," and the event that was picked was the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and my instructor informed me that he discovered somewhere the calendar is off by about 5 years.
OverGryph 6 months ago
What we have here is another 'Socrates'.
It's not a compliment. Soctrates wasn't WISE, per se.
All he knew how to do was argue, contradict and de-bunk his fellow philosiphers theories about life, exsitence, etc. until they either conceeded or looked foolish
Then when they asked Socrates "okay, so if our answers are WRONG what's the RIGHT answer?" what did Scorates say?
"I don't know. I'm just as stupid as YOU are."
Knowing you DON'T know does not make you right or smarter than anyone else.
Nordmunder 7 months ago
Part 1
I know I spent the entire video debunking, but I do have quite a bit of evidence on this channel
A big piece of evidence is prophecy. For example, many details of Jesus' life were predicted centuries before His birth, and all these writings have been confirmed to have been written before His birth by archaeological evidence
Anyways if you're interested in that, I have a video called "The Bible: Fact or False" and there are also 2 links in my channel description that list prophecies
ggcage 7 months ago
@ggcage Do you think that the people who wrote the books that make up the New Testament had ever read the Old Testament? If so, wouldn't a logical conclusion be that it was more of a "fill in the blanks" exercise than a historical account? There is a four or five decade gap between Jesus' supposed death and the first writings about him... Why does no one find this odd?
Toastpoi 6 months ago
Part 2
Another big piece of evidence is the testimony of the apostles. The apostles saw Jesus face to face. They were with Him constantly for three years. They should have known whether or not He was the Messiah. They went out and willingly risked their lives over and over and were killed for the sake of the gospel without any hope of getting worldly gain from it. You really cannot have a better testimony and no other religion has eyewitnesses/martyrs like the apostles.
ggcage 7 months ago
Okay ggcage, you have presented your argument.
So naturally, as you have gone to so much trouble to produce evidence that Zeitgeist has NO proof, you, of COURSE, have some proof of your OWN to support the evidence that there WAS a man named Jesus who turned water into wine, walked on water, healed the sick, raised people from the dead was crucified and rose after 3 days, correct?
Will this be detailed written records or actual eye witnesses?
You claim more SOLID proof, . . . PRODUCE it.
Nordmunder 7 months ago
There is plenty of evidence for God but zero evidence that an entity known as Jesus Christ lived about 2000 years ago.
Christians, you make the claim so now the burden to provide proof is upon you.
4256573 9 months ago
@4256573 I see, but there really is evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died for the sins of humanity. I have several videos on it, but there are two main pieces of evidence. The first is that the apostles were willing to die for the message that they preached. The were with Jesus constantly, and obviously believed Him to be the Son of God. They should have known better than anybody. The second is prophecy. Details about Jesus' life were predicted in the Old Testament centuries before His birth
ggcage 9 months ago
although i don't necessarily agree with all of it, It does raise some interesting points that i think were needed to refute the original zeitgeist. Although i don't necessarily believe that the bible was divinely inspired, i can respect the teachings of Jesus well as the teachings of the old testament. it is, however, important to show that same respect to other religions/non religions as well. everyone is just trying to figure things out for themselves and don't need to be condemned.
tankgirl211 10 months ago
@tankgirl211 Im not trying to condemn anyone. I'm just trying to point out that Zeitgeist's refutation does not hold. What makes Zeitgeist, and other projects like it so dangerous is that it leads people away from Christ, the only hope of salvation for man. Many people believe that this idea of "Jesus as the only way" is intolerant, but it is not. Telling people how to get to heaven is an act of love. Christ's sacrifice is the greatest gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted
ggcage 9 months ago
Perhaps you should re-name these videos to "Zeitgeist Bilble section Proven False"
dialchemy 11 months ago
@dialchemy You know, there are other ways of dismantling the Bible besides making shit up and making some more shit up. It seems really suspicious that Zeitgeist would use false information in the first section of the first movie in the series, not to mention the 9/11 crap. If they need to lie this much to sell their idea, it definitely isn't worth buying.
OutlawGrrl 9 months ago
@OutlawGrrl Yeah, the thing that bothered me is this video is promoting "Zeitgeist" to be false when its only the bible section that it refers to. Personally i enjoyed Zeitgeist and i'd urge all to watch it and the sequal. Then go and search "cutting through the matrix" and listen to what Mr Alan Watt has to say , But, remember good people of Earth, in the end none of this will matter :-)
dialchemy 9 months ago
Part II
That's very true. People cannot comprehend an infinite God. But that doesn't mean you should just completely ignore God. God does have a will for mankind, and He has made it known in His Word. There is plenty of evidence for the divine inspiration of the Bible such as the testimonies of martyrs, the impact the Bible has had on history, and prophecy. If you seek after God, you will find God, but if you seek to misunderstand, you will get nowhere.
ggcage 1 year ago
Part I
The church has done a lot of good in the world, like hospitals, charities, etc. However, it is sad but true that it has also done some evil things. However, you cannot judge God by the deeds of imperfect men, who may or may not really be Christians. People have always twisted perfectly good causes for their own selfish gain. It isn't limited to just religion, and it doesn't make the cause any less valid.
ggcage 1 year ago
I see, but there is evidence that the gospels really were written by eyewitnesses (or those who had direct contact with them). For one thing, the 2nd century church, which would have had people who knew the apostles, unanimously supported the traditional authorship. If the gospels were written by someone else, then somebody would've objected. Also, there are references to the NT written by church fathers in the late first century, indicating that the NT was written earlier, and not later
ggcage 1 year ago
@1337chsacker I see, but you're not going to get a one gigapixel photo. Man is separated from God because of sin, and risks being separated completely for eternity if He does not accept the grace of Christ. God has given us all we need to accept Jesus. If you truly seek after God, you will find God. But if you seek to misunderstand, then you'll only deceive yourself.
ggcage 1 year ago
@1337chsacker Part II
In every other religion, man works his way to heaven. But in Christianity, man is helpless, and it is only because God has done all the work through Christ, than man has any hope of ever being with God. The lack of emphasis on man is evidence that it is not from man. Christ's death was the most precious gift ever given and it'd be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
ggcage 1 year ago
@1337chsacker Part I
Ok, there may be some similarities, but that doesn't make anything untrue. If you compare any two pieces of literature of substantial length there will be similarities. It is unavoidable. However, in order for Christianity to be a copycat religion, the core beliefs must be equivalent to something older. The core beliefs of Christianity are so different from older religions, that it is in fact, evidence that it is not manmade.
ggcage 1 year ago
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jolulipa 1 year ago
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jolulipa 1 year ago
I am disgusted in your blind support of christianity. I will give you some credit as when i watched zeigeist I beleaved it and you have bought up some good points as to it being twisted. So now i dont beleave it so much. Im open minded to anything. You are not. How about this for a religon I am god. Wanna know why? because if I wasnt born nothing would exsist to me so I created this world in my eyes. more beleavable then walking on water.
3astard 2 years ago
if you are god,i want a pony!NOW...
and if you can't? you need help!!!NOW..
breedofthe45 2 years ago
More believable then walking on water? I will admit that such a claim more sound a bit much at first, but one thing you have to realize is that if God couldn't do things that are physically impossible, then by definition He really wouldn't be God. Also, there is a lot of evidence of God and the Bible out there from prophecy to history to Biblical wisdom. If you seek God, then you'll find God. But if you seek to misunderstand to justify what you hold true, then you'll get nowhere.
ggcage 2 years ago
word, god bless
tilhon 2 years ago
Logic and Intelligence will lead you to God. What most have today is ignorance and fallacies. Those who denounce God, 9 out of 10 times haven't even stopped to read a single book out of the bible. The bible is not inspirational. It does not teach you anything, other then what you already feel, knowing right from wrong. Pick up the Bible, read it, and watch as your logic fails to the simple truth. You'll find yourself "Going oh shit, that makes a whole lot more sense..." on many accounts.
Chazhottinger 2 years ago
Zeitgeist is bunk in most what is said, but Christianity is a pagan sun religion.
NWOSupporter2012 2 years ago
I don't understand. If Zeitgeist is moslty incorrect, and Christianity is shown not to be connected with other forms of Sun worship, than how can Christianity be a pagan Sun religion?
ggcage 2 years ago
@ggcage One thing is Jesus from Nazareth and another is God. There existed a man in Nazareth, son of Joseph the carpenter, named Jesus, who started a religious way of thinking and living. He was helped by some followers he called disciples. Another thing is God. There is some historical evidence of the existence of such man. But there is not evidence whatsoever of the existence of God. So, what if zeitgeist is wrong? Who cares? Believing in a Man or a deity.. That IS wrong.
jolulipa 1 year ago
@jolulipa There is quite a bit of evidence of God, and that Christ is His Son. There is historical evidence as well as prophecy foretelling Jesus' coming centuries prior to His life, and has been shown to have been written beforehand through archeology. There are a couple of links in my channel description that list these prophecies in detail, if you're interested.
ggcage 1 year ago
Your simply becoming an antagonist, yet offer up nothing to support your argument. Under the Law of Logic you're the trier of the fact, and must present evidence to support the existence of the fact, or the fact is not true. So far, you've accomplished merely taking up space on a hard drive, and wasting the author the video's time too write a response.
Chazhottinger 2 years ago
did you just watch the same videos i did because it's not and it explains how it's not. the bible was written in hebrew, aramaic, and greek it was only translated in english where the words sun and son sound the same i doubt they sound the same in those languages.
TopBunkTommy 2 years ago
nunyabusiness3 has replied to your comment on Zeitgeist Proven False (Part 5 of 5):
"Can you find a truly scholarly source that supports Zeitgeist?"- can you do the same for the bible? How about scientific evidence- REAL science not that a talking donkey says so.
---------------------------
Science: Keep all options open & consider.
73,
JR2FJI 2 years ago
If you are looking for a solid argument- you don't really have one. You need to include sources that are historical and from different perspectives. You can't just list a bunch of Christian sites- of course they are going to look good for you. If a corporation wants to sell their product they aren't going to refer you to they're competitor.
nunyabusiness3 2 years ago
Pantheon(dot)org is an online encyclopedia of various mythical figures. It has absolutely no religious ties. It isn't tied to Zeitgeist either. It simply tells the myths for the sake of history. If you look up these figures on Pantheon (or any other secular source that isn't related to Zeitgeist) you'll see that Zeitgeist is full of lies. Can you find a truly scholarly source that supports Zeitgeist?
ggcage 2 years ago
Great contra video indeed, we humans should always
see both sides with an open mind. But --
Get right with GOD ,
which GOD ?
Earth was visited by over 2,000 different
Gods / visitors.
Sincerely (73) JR2FJI
JR2FJI 2 years ago
Part I of II
I see what you're saying, but I am refering to the God of the Bible. The one that sent His Son to die for man's sins so that they could have their sins washed away and be reconciled to Him.
However there have been quite a few religions since civilization, however, the Bible has some things that other holy books just don't. A good example is prophecy. The Bible is loaded with specific prophecy. There more about that on the channel.
ggcage 2 years ago
Part II of II
Also the Bible has a lot of very unconventional wisdom. For instance, Jesus said "Love thy enemies" this totally goes against man's reasoning, yet at the same time, forgiveness is the only way to really move on after we've been truly hurt. To me it shows that its God's wisdom, and not man's reasoning.
ggcage 2 years ago
"Can you find a truly scholarly source that supports Zeitgeist?"- can you do the same for the bible? How about scientific evidence- REAL science not that a talking donkey says so.
nunyabusiness3 2 years ago
One thing you should realize is that if God couldn't do things that were physically impossible, then He really wouldn't be very much of a God.
Anyways, the earliest manuscripts about Jesus are closer to His life than for almost any historical figure. There's more evidence for Jesus than for almost any historical figure. If you're really interested you can see my videos "Jesus Christ: Fact or False?" Parts 1&2
ggcage 2 years ago