You're right, people do like getting free stuff that other people pay for. You are completely ignoring WHO PAYS that's the problem. Why am i paying for someone else's care? Why am i paying for someone else's insurance? And don't give me that bullshit that it's funded 100% by when our last generation paid their dues - because if that was true our government wouldn't be $14,000,000,000,000 in debt. So frame the arguement correctly or shut the fuck you useless puppet.
@boristhepython You have to invest in a country. Here's a question, most of the debt came from the two wars Shrubby started, why should I pay to have someone shot I don't even know or have a grudge against? Why are my tax dollars supporting murder when they could be healing people? I'd rather pay for the health of my nation than the exploits of the Empire. Besides, maybe we should have the Americans with the most money pitch in... it's their war after all.
@punkwasher what does "you have to invest in country" mean? The empire is 1/4 of the problem, entitlements (SS/medicare/medicaid) are 1/2 the problem and the interest on the debt becuase we can't afford the shit we promise is the other 1/4 of the problem. I don't want the "exploits of the empire" nor do i want medicare in existence it distorts market signals and sets price controls. usa should be ending ALL wars (terror/drugs/poverty) and stop all entitlements.
@boristhepython So do you want a government or not? Because we need socialism to pay for shit the rich won't give us. Sure, the free market's supposed to do that, but historically, it doesn't. People are entitled to health. Privatizing health insurance puts a price tag on people's lives. You can't tell me that's moral. I'll tell you what's really the problem in this country: It's a government of the rich for the rich. Trickle down doesn't work, we have to take what they won't give us.
@punkwasher i don't want a government besides protecting us from each other. I know it's useless to argue with a socalist because you will believe anything someone tells you that ends with you getting something you feel you "deserve", but there is nothing moral about force & socalism requireds force. force of taxes, nanny laws, force that i can't negotiate my own wage or contract. It's a government of the rich becuase it's large, a truely limited government cannot pick winners and losers
@boristhepython I put a lot of effort into building my opinions, so I don't just buy anything someone tells me, especially if they are driven by profit. You don't even really understand socialism. The Police and Fire Departments are socialist institutions. Privatize those and all of sudden poor people's houses will burn down (that has happened). Yes we need that force, because we know exactly what the rich will do when we give them no restrictions: Enrich themselves and let everyone else slave.
@boristhepython Furthermore, we are, as human beings, entitled to health care and employment. Forcing rich people to pay their fair share so that other people can afford health care is not immoral. Hoarding all that money for your small family is. While the Koch Brothers earn 100+ billion dollars a year, people in Africa are starving. How is that moral? Also, you can't negotiate your wages in Corporate America; they'll just hire someone who will, hence OUTSOURCING.
@punkwasher people being rich in this country does not reduce the ability for people for climb the economic ladder, it increases it. Rich people are rich because they offer a product or service that people find useful and at a price people find fair, otherwise they wouldn't buy it. Profit is the reason I can argue your retarded ideas over the internet maintained by private companies. lastly your labor is a product no one forced you to be a lazy fuck who wants a hand out instead of working hard
@punkwasher Apparently your a moron! What party of the US constitution says that people are entitled to any form of healthcare? Healthcare is a buisness it should be run as a buisness not as a subsidized 2000 page bundle of horse shit. Where in the constitution does it say that a brillant idea of one person to create themselves and family wealth must be spread amongst the other people who played no part in his idea, his buisness and served him no purpose. I dont understand you at all read a book
@vied54 Yeah, it's not in YOUR (see what I did there, moron!) constitution, because the US doesn't give a crap about people. Where I'm from we make sure that people can afford to buy things, are educated enough to get a good job and healthy enough to work. Believe it or not, it's all interconnected. Money needs to flow and not get stuck in the hands of the few, which you're advocating. You should just examine history and tell me when that has ever worked. Hint: Never.
@punkwasher Well im sure where ever your from has a lower quality of life than. You may not have to work very hard or at all to have food on your table, you must have an education that is identical to your neighbors, your medicine is as good as it ever was.....(not a compliment). But the beauty of this constitutional republic is free trade creating competition for better education, better medicine everyday, better tables to put our food on. Your argument is lacking something... Common sense.
@vied54 I'm from Germany. Better education that the US. Fantastic health care that is accessible to everyone. College tuition runs around 500 euros per semester. You argument is lacking... facts.
@punkwasher Then why are you even having this conversation - complaining about outsourcing of american jobs - defending american medicare?? Enjoy Germany where you won't have to worry about the entitlement nation of greece crashing your entire economy! Debt is a problem, entitlements are a problem, and getting things you don't work for is a problem, it's universal no matter what country you're from. having cheap services and equality isn't an indictor of prosperity.
@boristhepython I live in the US where apparently the rich are entitled to more money and the poor are entitled to what the rich are willing to let "trickle down". Wanna reduce the debt? Tax the rich. I work and can't pay for the things I need, how is that supposed to work? Rent is barely out of my reach, medical care is out of my reach, shit, is working full time not enough to be considered a human being with rights?
@punkwasher you are free to make more money, but i guess you wouldn't want to make as much as the people you're trying to tax the hell out of though...it's easier to be broke and have other people foot the bill. shit wouldn't cost so much if government wasn't taking 12% out in social security, and another 15%-20% in other unconstitutional taxes, these costs that you're dying to impose on other people reduce the productive capacity of a society and an individual. your logical is flawed.
@boristhepython "your logical is flawed". Hahahaha, okay that was all I needed. Taxes don't affect prices, those are regulated by the businesses, who all to often like to engage in price fixing. Seems like you're the one with gaping gaps of knowledge. Was fun talking to you anyway, but this is getting too heated.
@punkwasher how can taxes NOT affect prices. if a business has to pay $30,000 in taxes, it gets added into their bills just like the electric bill or their rent, and if they aren't able to make a profit after all their bills then they can't afford to produce goods at the current price they have to raise them. Price fixing doesn't work, in a free market someone will always undercut them. believe what you want, part of being american is you do have free speech even if it's wrong.
@boristhepython WOW! Boris you make a great point that cannot seem to be argued with! You seem like a smart man, i bet youve listened to Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowel huh?
@boristhepython Okay, yeah the taxes can affect prices, I had forgotten that, but companies do engage in price fixing and it totally does work until they get caught. In a free market society, which btw can not exist, some regulations are required, that can totally happen if you don't forbid them from doing it. They do it anyway. That's what happens when you put profit ahead of human progress. People get sick and then don't get the insurance they have been paying into.
@punkwasher really? so please give me an example of an industry that uses price fixes and how they have succeeded? Because heres the thing, when someone put profit above all else, they need to be competitive. when you fix a price with another business that must mean you're willing to let them have customers. they are greedy and it's a good thing too, becuase it makes them undercut each other at every turn driving the cost of goods down.
@boristhepython I googled it quickly and immediately found Standard Oil. But I'm tired of this discussion. If you think the free market's going to solve all problems then fine, let's see if it will. It only had a couple centuries time to prove itself, so far it's given us child labor, worker repression, legislative manipulation, impoverishing foreign countries, environmental destruction, violent union oppression, sweatshops, education with a corporate agenda, etc. etc. etc.
@punkwasher i don't think you realize we want the same things. the reason we don't have child labor in america, and do have clean water, clean air, is because we are a rich country, we aren't a rich country becuase we adopted socialist principals, but because we have the freedom to choose to work where we want to at a wage we agree on and purchase goods we find to be important to us, because the alternative is 1984. i'll take the negatives of capitalism over the altneratives anyday.
@boristhepython Like how Exxon purposefully shut down power plants to drive up the prices! Or how electricity plants were privatized in southern America to impoverish the populace to create a cheap workforce. Or how Monsanto invented seeds that don't reproduce so the farmers always have to buy new seeds from them. Or how the CEOs in this country earn 500 times the amount of workers whose wages haven't increased since the 1970s? There is more social engineering going on than you want to admit.
@punkwasher before i explain your misunderstanding social engineering has NOTHING to do with this topic. Moreover, these are all private businesses making decisions, they can do whatever they want, becuase if they make the wrong move the market will punish them. Being as though the businesses you cite are still open for business, you are incorrect. if you can do better than exxon go for it, otherwise shut the fuck up.
@punkwasher i agree people have been paying into medicare, but it should NEVER have existed in the first place. that's the problem, when you make a giant fucked up government run program, you can't take it away. why can't people just use their own money to purchase the insurance they want at an affordable rate over 65? it's becuase medicare has eliminated the market for it.
@boristhepython Because they're 65 and probably not working anymore, that's why they can't just buy it. Where's that income supposed to come from? The social security that the GOP raided? The jobs that are being outsourced? What about the unemployed? Shall we just let them die in the streets, diseased and miserable? How are they supposed to pay for it in a country with 300 Million people but only 100 Million jobs? How does the free market fix that? Trickle down?
@punkwasher no one told them to not save their money their entire life!! 45 working years and they don't have a plan? sure, the GOP raided SS, but why did our people trust the government with 12% of their income in the first place! outsourcing is good, because trade is good, if you don't allow free trade you're limiting choice and creating black markets there is an unintended consquence that is worse than the problem you are trying to solve with every point you make.
@punkwasher The fact is you have no basic understanding of economics. Everyone should take care of eachother. I love that idea. Ive never been to Germany so i cant say but being an american i can say thats a fantasy land. It doesnt work like that, the government cannot take care of everyone when people have the rights we have in america. There will never be a complete agreement, and people like you will never care to understand both sides of the fence.
@vied54 It seems to work for Germany, France, Canada and England. Why won't America get on the band wagon? Or are you people too busy worshiping the rich? Here's a hint, maybe if the rich paid taxes, your health care could be paid for. Maybe your wars wouldn't be bankrupting the country either then, it's their war anyway, why are we paying for it? You've never read Marx. You'd see that what we're seeing is the end results of Capitalism: All the money in the hands of the few.
@punkwasher Were seeing the results of too big of a government. Thats all, read the "road to serfdom" Listen to Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowel. Its worth a listen if your going to argue your point. Capitalism is not about getting all the money into the hands of a few. That does nothing but devalues the dollar. Unfortunetly there are people that hold money but the ratio is far less than what you the media tells you. Capitalism works, Keynesian economics dont. Thats very evident.
@vied54 HAHAHAHA, yeah, the government with its subsidies for Tobacco, Oil and other PRIVATE companies. That's called a Corporatocracy. And if it's not about getting all the money in the hands of the few, why do the top 20 % control most of the wealth in the US? It's like, you say this, but reality is the exact opposite. This has been going on for centuries as well. There has always been a plutocratic conspiracy against the majority of mankind and just accepting that isn't going to help.
@punkwasher Subsidies are horrible. There a horrible idea of economics. and they dont work. Thank you for bringing that up and helping my point! Your a little confused. Hail HItler right? Thats what you want? Work for the government for food and healthcare, let them determine the quality of each you recieve? Enjoy, Im glad you dont come here to vote!
@vied54 I am an American and I vote. You do not understand socialism. Would you rather have profit driven insurance companies determine the quality of services you receive? Because that's what happening! Without Obama telling companies they can no longer deny services, they would've still denied coverage. Also you committed a godwin and I can therefore disregard your opinion. Was fun talking to you!
@punkwasher YES I DO, i want someone who loves profit, becuase that means they have an incentive to do well, without an incentive people do not innovate. if doctors didn't love profit they wouldn't goto school i understand socialism, it's not a good idea and it can't work. i really don't get it, how is king obama telling people they cannot deny coverage is a good thing. it's a private business, why do they have to answer to anyone except their shareholders or their customers?
@punkwasher I would rather pay my insurance company not only be cause it creates jobs but it creates competition. It creates higher medical standards. And the price shifting is simply be cause these beloved entitlement programs force doctors to shift the price to the privatly insured.
@vied54 So... no one works for medicare. Your taxes are not employing someone in that administration and it isn't creating a single job for anyone in that huge program? And a cheaper public option will not force the private insurance to lower their prices to compete? And the whole private health insurance thing hasn't driven the prices of health care up, unlike in countries with a public option? I'm not talking theoretical here, these are things that are happening right now. Check your facts.
@punkwasher But how many jobs is this Obamacare going to eliminate when private buisness cant compete. Think of the quality issue. When private buisness has to compete theyl find newer better resources. Incentive to do good buisness is there. When government turns into buisness it eliminates all of that. Its focus turns to the politicans that benefit. Government is not a buisness. Medicaid and Medicare have great intentions but there extremely flawed.
@vied54 But they do not do good business. They are driving the costs of health care up, eating up payments with bonuses to their CEOs and their quality is no better than countries with a public options. You didn't check your facts, your just spouting the theoretical propaganda they want you to believe. In Germany, there are still private health insurance companies, despite a public option, so you're just flat out wrong. It's not about profit, it's about having a healthy productive populace!
@punkwasher just because YOUUU dont' think they do good business, doesn't mean they don't. There isn't just "coke and pepsi" when it comes to insurance companies there are a ton to choose from, if people don't like the one they have they can vote for a different one by spending their money elsewhere.
@vied54 Then why isn't every single person in this county insured? If it's so affordable, why isn't it affordable? Why do corporations take out life insurance policies on employees? Check out the dead peasant insurance deal for a marvel of the free market insurance system: Corporations literally profiting from the death of their employees. Enjoy your fascism!
@punkwasher Cause its a good some people choose to buy. Costs of price shifting make prices higher. Why do you think government provided healthcare is so great? What benefit will that create and for whom? It will do nothing but set more regulations on procedures, drugs and hault the progress of new medicines longer than it is currently doing. The pros of it are only to satisfy the satisfied, not the ones with aspirations and still believe in the american dream. Your eliminating choice.
@vied54 It's just that... well... it's not working for millions of people. Other countries have figured it out, why can't America? Are you not even in the slightest bit embarrassed that France has a better health care system? What about Canada? Not embarrassed that they've beaten America in that respect either? Not embarrassed that Finland (!) has a better wealth distribution? The way I see it, America needs to catch up with the world.
@punkwasher I didnt know everyone is doing so great. I dont think socialism is the key to "catch up". As far as being embarrased im not. I dont agree with what the government is trying to do (get bigger). And i didnt come here from such a great place to complain about the way things are. I dont want to wait for everyone else to be seen by the doctor first. Id rather pay for insurance and have better quality, one of my many choices as a free american. Why should we let them ruin health care too?
@vied54 Furthermore Why should the rich have to pay such a high percentage of taxes? 12% of $20 is far less than 12% of $2 million. If the tax code werent so messed up and complicated and unfair there wouldnt be loopholes for major corporations to slip thru. And if government didnt work with corporations and everything was honest this wouldnt be a problem to begin with. Too much government too much regulation!
Everyone in Washington knows that Paul Ryan has been told he has a million dollar a year lobbying job for the health industry if he gets his health care law passed.
Here's how it works-he lies through his teeth to get it passed-the healthcare insurance industry makes billions more from vouchers while still denying it's customers health care.
Meanwhile this nigger gets a cushy one million dollar a year job as a lobbyist. Way to sell out your own people Ryan!
The Republicans has given Obama another four years! They gave big business billion of dollar FICA Tax break that cut Social security down to 20 years from forty! The speaker of the house is about as dumb as they come and he needs to be removed as speaker. Obama on the other hand is trying to put Americans under the UN gun Ban. He made the deal with the speaker to cut FICA knowing it would do great damage to Social security. He said when he was elected that he would protect SS and MC, he lied!
Thanks to liberal policies America can no longer afford to pay for medicare, social security, unemployment and many other services. We also need to lower the minimum wage to $2/hr in order to compete with China and bring jobs back home. Fiscally responsible conservatives like Paul Ryan and John Boehner know this and are currently
working to end these wasteful handout programs and bring the minimum wage down so that America can be great again. God bless the GOP!
While all of these Democrats out there think their way of spending the US budget is best. I believe they should step back and take a look at the financial state of the Blue states. Just a hint Most are in terrible shape. But if you take one state in particular Louisiana. Here is a state controlled by democrats for the better part of 50 years, finely they elect a conservative republican Bobby Jindal and wouldn't you know he has turned there budget around. Go figure.
obamacare doesn't give people healthcare. it actually takes it away from those who already have health insurance by squeezing them out of the marketplace through higher prices and taxes so that it can later be turned over to those who do not work. its classic wealth redistribution. my employer is tinkering with the idea of cancelling the benefit package because of price. so who am i going to hold responsible when that happens? the democrats. the dems are already losing in polls.
@yzerman19wingnut Nope, you got that mixed up with the current system. Obama's bill specifically states that people can not be denied care. Besides we have wealth redistribution: From everyone to the top 2%. That's seem fair, right? 100 people out of 300 Million with all the money, yeah, that works... for them.
@punkwasher But you dont understand the simple buisness of it. It eliminates all competition therefore lowering quality of healthcare. How can you expect quality to be the same when the government names there price. If obamacare says you cant turn down any (like you just said) who names the price for healthcare procedures? The government does and who creates the theroy of how much healthcare procedures cost at that point? THE GOVERNMENT DOES! Wen need competition in every buisness.
Medicare unfunded liability: $76,148,426,000,000 (Source: National Debt Clock). In an attempt to socialize medicine we have traded personal/family/community/state responsibility for a chance to ruin everyone in the U.S. equally. What will be the governments solution for this failure? Further socialization of medicine and further ruining of freedom. What they are celebrating is a robbery from the individual in the name of the collective.
Listen Man! The American Dream is OVER! Rugged individualism is no longer viable in a world where a men simply couldn't survive without extra help. Can a man get a good job and work his way out of poverty if he can't afford education? Could a man afford insurance without a good income? Many millions work their asses off to feed their families, and they wouldn't be able to afford insurance. They need help if they are to survive.
Medicare is broke, and full of fraud. The only reason it's so popular is, as John Stossel so eloquently puts it: "People like to get stuff free." Or seemingly free. Even though they don't get nearly as much from the system as they put in to it throughout their working life.
I am 20 years old, and i am piss off at Medicare!!! It is bankrupting this whole nation. By the time me and my generation will be "eligible" for medicare, Medicare will be so much in debt, that it will fail to pay for any of our healthcare. It is immoral to give children such massive debt!!!
The Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution reads:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
There are no provisions for the care of the health of the people contained within the Constitution, except perhaps some regulation based around the Commerce Clause, so the Federal Government should not have gone so far as it has.
Conservatives love to quote the tenth, but you forget the "Necessary and Proper Clause". The power of congress to make laws that affect the entirety of the country is written into that clause.
This clause does not make Medicare Constitutional; it refers to the preceding enumerated powers of Congress, none of which provide for specific rather than general welfare. Congress should clearly be able to make laws which affect the entirety of the country, however, there is no clause which provides for federally-run (or mandated) health insurance.
@crazytvfan815 That power is to assist in the other specific enumerated powers in Article One, Section Eight. It is not a power to create a new power that is not listed in the article. If congress could do anything it wanted they founders wouldent have spent months fighting over the role of congress and it wouldent be necessary to list the powers of congress.
How does the Constitution support Medicare? I put forth that this idea was based on the Canadian system of universal health coverage, and hence was not based on the Constitution.
medicare is not unconstitutional. Medicare falls under General Welfare. Witch the government has the right to do. And saying Liberals don't care about the constitution is just showing your ignorance. Remember conservatives passed the USA patriot act act witch gave the government the right to tap phoned lines-That's constitutional. TO provide people with affordable health care is not unconstitutional. so take your ignorance ass some where else
Conservatives didn't pass the patriot act. Republicans did. Go check Ron Paul's voting record if you'd like to know how an actual conservative votes. And the General Welfare clause in the constitution says absolutely nothing about the federal government providing socialized medicine to the elderly in the form of medicare lol. Don't be ridiculous.
@TimeWarp66 Health care falls under general welfare. Conservatives did pass the usa patriot. Mostly republican conservatives did. and mostly conservatives hang out in the republican party. and by the way the constitution was written by liberal's, and the first constitution of the usa was written by conservatives. do u not know anything?
When refering to true conservatism I'm talking about Libertarianism, and no, not a single true conservative voted for the patriot act. Only neocons. As I said before, "general welfare" is a vague and broad term, having absolutely nothing to do with medical care. And no, the founders of this country who wrote the constitution were all Libertarians, who recognized the evils of big government.
@TimeWarp66 Actually general welfare has everything to do with medical care. And yes the founding father who did write the constitution were liberals. They weren't called liberals back than but they were liberals, who believed in bigger government. You forget when America first started up the power went to all the states in the first constitution. And i think your confusing conservatism with libertarians.
2) The founders of this country were Liberal and believed in bigger government???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh boy, you should do stand up!
3) Why is it that each bill of rights begins with the sentence: "Congress shall pass no law."? If they believed in big government, wouldn't each right begin with "Congress must pass laws garenteeing the right to medical care...etc. The US is based on a limited government philosophy. And it has served us well.
@TimeWarp66 Your a fucking Idiot, it says congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise. HAHA! The founding fathers wanted the federal government to have more control over the states. If they didn't believe in bigger government than we will be living in a society where all the states had all the power and the federal had limited power!! so how can you sit here and tell me that the founding fathers didn't want bigger government?
It's spelled YOU'RE. Dumbass. What a great way to start a paragraph. YOU'RE really going to convince your political opponents of your way of thinking with that kind of logic! Fail.
The constitution also says nothing about allowing illegal immigrants to attend public schools, so why are they allowed?
Because of the 14th amendment, and the courts have ruled (numerous times) that illegals have a constitutional right to take advantage of everything citizens have within their respective states because of the 14th amendment (the terminology "people" is used rather than "citizens").
Universal Health Care isn't unconstitutional, even if it covered illegals, don't kid yourself.
@BipolarBomber Exactly which article in the constitution makes government ran healthcare constitutional? I allready know what your going to say but this should be fun anyway.
@CWSmith1982 I'd argue that the 14th amendment makes it permissible, but the beauty of the constitution is that it's a guideline to our legislative process, not a can and can't list. It was designed to be flexible so that when the world changes it doesn't prevent us from being a successful country. There is no way the founding fathers could even perceive of universal healthcare so there is certainly nothing that permits it but there's also nothing that negates it.
@BipolarBomber The 14th Amendment? The 14th Amendment gives congress absolutly no power but to ensure there is equal protection under the law in our liberties. You cant make new junk up in the constitution to suit your needs. Either Congress has the power to do it or they dont. And thoes powers are listed under Article one Section eight. Under that article there is no power to implement universal healthcare or take money away from U.S. citizens for an insurance program. James Madison agrees.
James Madison (THE FATHER OF OUR CONSTITUTION) "With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
This guy is an intellectual midget. The reason it is political suicide is because people have paid into the system and if you take medicare away many of them would have no care at all. That doesn't make medicare a good system, it just means people depend on it. Just like ramen noodles aren't very good for you, but it sure beats nothing especially when you've already paid for it.
medicare should pick up every person who gets dumped by their HMO. Then Medicare should send that HMO a bill for all the pre-existing conditions they end up having to pay for. HMOs are nothing but evil scum..they killed 100 people today, and every day..look it up if you dont believe me.
every person should be entitled to buy into Medicare...just tell me the price, and im there..Old seniors who have Medicare and shout down health care reform are old selfish bastards...they have their's, and everybody else can go to hell..thats how they think..its shameful for old people to think that way.
Obama's obvious lie about Medicare. Obama claims they are not going ration care but he plans to cut Medicare by $500 billion over ten years. The cuts are coming at the time when the number of people on Medicare is growing each year. Obama claims the cuts will come because of improvements in efficiency and less fraud and waste. The Congressional Budget Office says not so and that only 1% of the $500 billion will come from being more efficient. The remaining cuts will result is less care.
Of course I am not opposed to cutting fraud and waste, but the Congressional Budget Office has said only 1% of the $500 billion cut in Medicare will be recouped from cutting fraud and waste. Medicare rations care now. If they cut $495 billion in Medicare services at a time when the number of Medicare recipients is growing by 30%, people will not get the healthcare they need. Obama just does not understand economics. He is over his head and people realize it now.
The town hall people arent fighting for smaller governement, they are fighting for the status quo, they dont care what happens to health care costs because they are not on the hook for them. Most of them are seniors not young people. They dont have to pay that why they could give a crap.
And in this seemingly redemptive offering, Obama may be promising what only God can actually deliver, in the form of yet another, more eloquent, version of the same old utopian dream that started with Rousseau and Marx.
Health Care will be including CARE once its public. They said the Stimulus would not work. Hartford Courant Front page 7/5/09. The stimulus funds have created more jobs than can be filled until training catches up with demand. The economy is the only thing slowing the Connecticut Green Economy from becomming the states fastest growing industry.
Connecticuts Energy Conservation Industry is creating more jobs than any other sector due to the stimulus. So Stimulus = Success & Health Care=Success
If people like something that gives them free crap, they obviously want to keep it. However, that does not mean that it is a working system. Also, it wouldn't really mean that much if they proposed to take it away, it's just that a bill has never been proposed and passed to do it.
Working all my life in the healthcare billing industries. Here's my take a Single Payer will WORK, can extend from Medicare program for all, no age restriction. Private Insurance CEOs got millions of dollars, but denied medical claims to gain profits. Either paid for medical or denied Cosmetic services. I agreed with Capitalism in America, but not in the Healthcare. If you can't work due to health youre not contribute to society.Everyone should have some healthcare safetynet.
Why is politics such a hard subject? The GOP isnt the greatest and neither is the Democratic party. They both obviously have their flaws and they both have their strengths. Unfortunately people only tend to look at the bad parts of both, depending on what side you follow. Take the time to learn about both, and not from one source, because that will led to a completely one sided view.
Just that with the private one, it's not that you would die before he found the paper work. You would die after he found it and told ou that you are not covered.
I love it when they say that you can't choose your doctor under universal healthcare.....like some doctor is not going to accept Medicare!! They'll be pushing patients away from them!
I can't believe we're arguing for healthcare!! It should be a given! ALL 1st world countries have universal healthcare except us!! This isn't capitalism, it's corporatism!!
if we let the radical obama agenda succeed there will be a slow clumsy government official between you and the doctor youl probably die before he even finds the paperwork
We all know the real reason Republicans hate medicare is because it also benefits minorities, and they can't fathom someone who isn't white benefiting from the government in any way.
Family Guy put it best by saying "Republicans like to help those who already have the means to help themselves." Translation: if you aren't rich and white then fuck you.
Another racist bigot. My father's from Norway and even he suffers discrimination, everyone thinks because he's a redhead he's immediately wealthy, he had to spend years to become a Law Professor before meeting my mother. He got no help, he gets stereotypes. Instead of turning to society and government (A way of saying 'I'm ineffective, someone loan me something') he gave up his teenage years. Hard work pays, using race for benefit is below dirt and harms the image of your nationality.
From a financial standpoint, the reason that Medicare's administrative cost percentage looks so good is that most of the people on it are elderly; and as such the costs of their care are higher than average, thus making the administrative cost relatively low. When you add in that Medicare doesn't cover jack, it's not all it's cracked up to be in some circles.
Cenk is great at foreign policy and civil liberties but terrible at economics.
We're broke! Doesn't anyone in either party get that little fact. Plus, a public option doesn't cure our medical COST issue nor does it increase medical quality. Plus, it will cost more than the politicians are stating as does every program.
We're broke, but that's nothing a ltitle taxation wont' fix. The richest1% of our country own enough wealth to pay off the national debt several times and still have enough left over to feed the entire continent of Africa for 100 years.
Besides, as broke as we are, we're just going to get more and more broke the longer the insurance companies are allowed to suck the lifeblood out of our economy.
Any "wealth transfer" is going to be popular with the transferees of the wealth, and if they're politically influential, to quote Cenk, "OF COURSE" you repeal it at your peril as a polititcian.
The popularity of Medicare with its "constituency" is a totally different issue from whether it "works" from such lines of inquiry as: is it a waste of money? is it going to bankrupt the country? does it create a perverse set of incentives for health care providers?, etc.
That is his whole point. If medicare was so wasteful why don't they cite that? If doctor visits was hampered then state it. It's popular cause it works. And works well. But republicians say socialized healthcare is bad. Well medicare is socialized healthcare. See where I'm going with this?
I don't think anybody feels that Medicare is bad. That's just retarded.
Saying that because a thing is popular it is the right thing to do is quite a stretch. We could all agree that we should each get a free trip to Disney land, and our government could enforce it, but eventually Disneyland would go bankrupt, no matter how many people felt good about it.
My point is that Socialized Healthcare is probably going to be expensive. Our government is really far in debt. This is a bad time
Are you saying that government spending on its citizens health is like paying a vacation at a resort for every citizen???
Come on that was not a good example, at all! Ppl have a right to have a portion of their taxes go to their health! Why is this even an issue with americans? I don't get it, ppl go bancrupt because of health issues or get sicker and sicker, that is not a viable option financially either, if you want to stick solely on monetary reason...
See the problem is not themselves they are worried about. Rush and other loud republicians have them thinking that all the care will go to "crackheads and babies mamas." You know those that are too lazy to work. So why should they support them. The funny thing is. They do it now what do you think happens when somebody goes to a county hospital get an operation or whatever and can't pay? Strange how Rush never says anything about the college student or the factory worker that just lost their job.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I like to move the mouse and poke young turk in the head with the little arrow on my screen. I stab him in the head and poke his eyes and stick it up his nose. it is fun
It's starting to get annoying now. Same topics, same guy, same tone. We get it, republicans don't like public healthcare. If you're such a progressive cenk, why not move to canada?
Because you love the usa? Most of your stories criticize your government and your own people.
...He does an opinion show. Do you not know what an opinion show is?
Moreover, I don't understand why you think criticism and love are mutually exclusive. In fact love, since it is accompanied by a strong form of care about something, can actually prompt criticism. If I love my child and he's run off the rails doing god knows what, it would not be out of love that I say nothing.
Weren't you referring to Cenk in the comment I responded too? And based on your response to it I take it you aren't a fan of his so let's just disregard that comment. Sorry.
What does that even mean? Cenk, like me, actually does love his country, hence he wants to see it improve. I find it hard to believe that that isn't obvious.
See, that is the difference between intelligent people and morons. Smart Americans want to be represented, they want real conversations and not political posturing. They do not like the skewed national news media to tell them what they think and should believe. It's the same topics because these will be the issues that define the generation, and effect the next. Canada? They talk shit about us behind our backs and come here for opportunity like everyone else. They bitch about all and do nothing.
Canada talks shit behind your backs? Let me do it to your face; that is the dumbest generalisation I have ever heard! Oh and about coming to the States for oppurtunity like everybody else... Americans do the same here, so do other ppl from other countries to different countries, period. Immigration is not an ''American'' concept, sheesh! Canada bitches about all and we do nothing? We have a mechanism in place to remove PMs that do crazy shit, almost immediately! Read a book and grow up, please.
Which is why your PM suspended parliament last year because they would not wait for a comprehensive stimulus package... sound familiar? They have the same problems, just at a smaller scale because they compete on a smaller scale, internationally. And I do hear endless complaining from the Canadians here, about the weather, about the driving, about the rudeness, and virtually everything else. They seriously need to just adapt and get over it.
So you're basing all your great knowledge of Canada on a handfull of ppl you meet that complaign about traffic and weather??? that also is a common irritant on all continents... maybe you should adapt as you put it and stop being rude! and Harper didn't suspend parlamient' the GG prorogued it. And by the way this was successful because the conservatives lied about the numbers' gave them time to regroup and show canadians the true state of the economy!!! Which is a very very good thing!
What's prorogued? and what does this partial sentence mean: "because the conservatives lied about the numbers' gave them time to regroup and show canadians the true state of the economy"?
"Why not move to Canada?" ... Christ people are ignorant.
1) It's a nice country and full of nice people.
2) Maybe they figured out how to do something we haven't yet.
3) In business there is a concept of "Best Practices" it means you search out different approaches to things and take the best of everything and apply it on a continual basis so your company constantly improves. Why not learn from others? Do you think they don't learn from us?
Your analogy is a little messed up. What Cenk is saying is if Medicare is terrible because it doesn't work, then we should scrap it. Regardless if you "hate" your car, I assume it still works, thus it still serves its primary function.
Now, because Medicare works and many people depend on it, he's saying it's political suicide to go after it because all in all it does what it's intended to do.
Cenk essentially says "Conservatives say 'Medicare does nothing valuable, so we should get rid of it completely and replace it with nothing'". Of course everyone disagrees with this statement.
That's why no one defends this position. No one.
This is a classic straw man argument. He presents a viewpoint no one on earth holds, then says, "This argument is nonsense. Therefore, I am right."
I think you missed Cenks point entirely. What Cenk is saying is "Look at what socialized medicine can do" and then begs the question "Why are Republicans so adamantly against socialized medicine, but say nothing about Medicare?" It's because the idea of a public option and socialized medicine is a talking point for Republicans who only wish to 'beat' the Democrats at something, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that we already have socialized medicine, and it works.
Not really. Are there any entitlement programs people are actively campaigning against?
Once people have successfully gotten their leaders to give them money out of the coffers, it's political suicide to campaign against continuing to give them money. People like money from the public funds. They think it's free.
That's why conservatives try to avoid starting new entitlements. Because they know that once we institute one we'll have to fund it forever.
I didn't go to a tea party. I prefer to keep my frustration and anger focused rather than lashing out against the air.
I was against the war pretty much from the beginning, so if your argument is, "the war is bad, therefore we should have single payer" then I'd say that's pretty weak.
I never used the word freeloader. I said many people treat money from government entitlement programs as if it's free, or "the government's money" instead of "the taxpayers' money". They eventually begin to feel they have a right to it. I wouldn't say this applies to everyone, but certainly a significant majority.
I think that to suggest otherwise is to be intentionally blind to the facts, not to mention human nature.
Cenk actually didn't say that it didn't do anything of value. He said if Medicare is so bad. He was meaning bad as in that it is a socialist program and socialist programs are suppose to be bad then why do'nt you get rid of it.
Also part of my taxes goes to my medical expense. And this is a bad thing? Or are you worried that those people will get used to the "free money?"
Single payer may give you better value than an unnecessary war, but if that's the standard we're using then so would putting it in a big pile and setting it on fire.
The system is broken. We need to start fresh. Using the same third-party payer system, but turning the private oligopoly into a public monopoly is not a good solution.
Medical cost inflation was in line with inflation as a whole until Medicare and Medicaid, then it skyrocketted. Why compound that mistake?
No, I said that campaigning for stopping a handout is not a good political decision, especially when it benefits (old) people who vote.
Even if they really were serious about it, how are the Republicans going to stop the public option? They are in a fillibuster-proof minority in both houses. Their opinions mean less than nothing.
Finally, who in the world said I thought the Republicans had sound ethics? I'm a conservative, not a Republican, so don't lump me in there with those Martians.
Ok, but now we come full circle back to Cenks argument. If stopping a handout is a bad political decision, then Republicans obviously didn't get the memo about that for the public option. So what's your reasoning for that? Why attack the public option and not medicare?
Before it's implemented, three quarters of the people don't even know it's being discussed, and the one quarter that does are arguing over whether it's a good idea or not.
Once it's implemented, a the vast majority of those who receive it adopt the position of "they better not take my money away."
I still don't see how this make Medicare immune to Republican backlash. If you were correct and Medicare is a failed system, it would simply stay a failed system since Republicans would be afraid of voter backlash if they wanted to terminate it. However, its workings would still be used against the public option as reason to not go forward with the public option.
"If Medicare is so bad, why don't you try to eliminate it," seems to imply that Republicans have adopted the position that it's a failed system, and don't want it broadened as a public option.
It's immune from repeal because we have one or two generations of unemployable elderly who have been told not only that they can have Medicare, but that they have no option but to accept it. They've planned their finances accordingly.
Well actually Republicans aren't attacking Medicare. From what I've seen anyways. Which is why I said it's odd, since if it's a failed program, Republicans could still use it as an example to stop the public option without risking voter backlash since closing a program is much different than criticizing one. So if they're not talking about Medicare, I assume the program is working well enough and can't be used as an example to stop the PO.
You're right, people do like getting free stuff that other people pay for. You are completely ignoring WHO PAYS that's the problem. Why am i paying for someone else's care? Why am i paying for someone else's insurance? And don't give me that bullshit that it's funded 100% by when our last generation paid their dues - because if that was true our government wouldn't be $14,000,000,000,000 in debt. So frame the arguement correctly or shut the fuck you useless puppet.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython You have to invest in a country. Here's a question, most of the debt came from the two wars Shrubby started, why should I pay to have someone shot I don't even know or have a grudge against? Why are my tax dollars supporting murder when they could be healing people? I'd rather pay for the health of my nation than the exploits of the Empire. Besides, maybe we should have the Americans with the most money pitch in... it's their war after all.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher what does "you have to invest in country" mean? The empire is 1/4 of the problem, entitlements (SS/medicare/medicaid) are 1/2 the problem and the interest on the debt becuase we can't afford the shit we promise is the other 1/4 of the problem. I don't want the "exploits of the empire" nor do i want medicare in existence it distorts market signals and sets price controls. usa should be ending ALL wars (terror/drugs/poverty) and stop all entitlements.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython So do you want a government or not? Because we need socialism to pay for shit the rich won't give us. Sure, the free market's supposed to do that, but historically, it doesn't. People are entitled to health. Privatizing health insurance puts a price tag on people's lives. You can't tell me that's moral. I'll tell you what's really the problem in this country: It's a government of the rich for the rich. Trickle down doesn't work, we have to take what they won't give us.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher i don't want a government besides protecting us from each other. I know it's useless to argue with a socalist because you will believe anything someone tells you that ends with you getting something you feel you "deserve", but there is nothing moral about force & socalism requireds force. force of taxes, nanny laws, force that i can't negotiate my own wage or contract. It's a government of the rich becuase it's large, a truely limited government cannot pick winners and losers
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython I put a lot of effort into building my opinions, so I don't just buy anything someone tells me, especially if they are driven by profit. You don't even really understand socialism. The Police and Fire Departments are socialist institutions. Privatize those and all of sudden poor people's houses will burn down (that has happened). Yes we need that force, because we know exactly what the rich will do when we give them no restrictions: Enrich themselves and let everyone else slave.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@boristhepython Furthermore, we are, as human beings, entitled to health care and employment. Forcing rich people to pay their fair share so that other people can afford health care is not immoral. Hoarding all that money for your small family is. While the Koch Brothers earn 100+ billion dollars a year, people in Africa are starving. How is that moral? Also, you can't negotiate your wages in Corporate America; they'll just hire someone who will, hence OUTSOURCING.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher people being rich in this country does not reduce the ability for people for climb the economic ladder, it increases it. Rich people are rich because they offer a product or service that people find useful and at a price people find fair, otherwise they wouldn't buy it. Profit is the reason I can argue your retarded ideas over the internet maintained by private companies. lastly your labor is a product no one forced you to be a lazy fuck who wants a hand out instead of working hard
boristhepython 6 months ago
@punkwasher Apparently your a moron! What party of the US constitution says that people are entitled to any form of healthcare? Healthcare is a buisness it should be run as a buisness not as a subsidized 2000 page bundle of horse shit. Where in the constitution does it say that a brillant idea of one person to create themselves and family wealth must be spread amongst the other people who played no part in his idea, his buisness and served him no purpose. I dont understand you at all read a book
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 Yeah, it's not in YOUR (see what I did there, moron!) constitution, because the US doesn't give a crap about people. Where I'm from we make sure that people can afford to buy things, are educated enough to get a good job and healthy enough to work. Believe it or not, it's all interconnected. Money needs to flow and not get stuck in the hands of the few, which you're advocating. You should just examine history and tell me when that has ever worked. Hint: Never.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher Well im sure where ever your from has a lower quality of life than. You may not have to work very hard or at all to have food on your table, you must have an education that is identical to your neighbors, your medicine is as good as it ever was.....(not a compliment). But the beauty of this constitutional republic is free trade creating competition for better education, better medicine everyday, better tables to put our food on. Your argument is lacking something... Common sense.
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 I'm from Germany. Better education that the US. Fantastic health care that is accessible to everyone. College tuition runs around 500 euros per semester. You argument is lacking... facts.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher Then why are you even having this conversation - complaining about outsourcing of american jobs - defending american medicare?? Enjoy Germany where you won't have to worry about the entitlement nation of greece crashing your entire economy! Debt is a problem, entitlements are a problem, and getting things you don't work for is a problem, it's universal no matter what country you're from. having cheap services and equality isn't an indictor of prosperity.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython I live in the US where apparently the rich are entitled to more money and the poor are entitled to what the rich are willing to let "trickle down". Wanna reduce the debt? Tax the rich. I work and can't pay for the things I need, how is that supposed to work? Rent is barely out of my reach, medical care is out of my reach, shit, is working full time not enough to be considered a human being with rights?
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher you are free to make more money, but i guess you wouldn't want to make as much as the people you're trying to tax the hell out of though...it's easier to be broke and have other people foot the bill. shit wouldn't cost so much if government wasn't taking 12% out in social security, and another 15%-20% in other unconstitutional taxes, these costs that you're dying to impose on other people reduce the productive capacity of a society and an individual. your logical is flawed.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython "your logical is flawed". Hahahaha, okay that was all I needed. Taxes don't affect prices, those are regulated by the businesses, who all to often like to engage in price fixing. Seems like you're the one with gaping gaps of knowledge. Was fun talking to you anyway, but this is getting too heated.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher how can taxes NOT affect prices. if a business has to pay $30,000 in taxes, it gets added into their bills just like the electric bill or their rent, and if they aren't able to make a profit after all their bills then they can't afford to produce goods at the current price they have to raise them. Price fixing doesn't work, in a free market someone will always undercut them. believe what you want, part of being american is you do have free speech even if it's wrong.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython WOW! Boris you make a great point that cannot seem to be argued with! You seem like a smart man, i bet youve listened to Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowel huh?
vied54 6 months ago
@boristhepython Okay, yeah the taxes can affect prices, I had forgotten that, but companies do engage in price fixing and it totally does work until they get caught. In a free market society, which btw can not exist, some regulations are required, that can totally happen if you don't forbid them from doing it. They do it anyway. That's what happens when you put profit ahead of human progress. People get sick and then don't get the insurance they have been paying into.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher really? so please give me an example of an industry that uses price fixes and how they have succeeded? Because heres the thing, when someone put profit above all else, they need to be competitive. when you fix a price with another business that must mean you're willing to let them have customers. they are greedy and it's a good thing too, becuase it makes them undercut each other at every turn driving the cost of goods down.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython I googled it quickly and immediately found Standard Oil. But I'm tired of this discussion. If you think the free market's going to solve all problems then fine, let's see if it will. It only had a couple centuries time to prove itself, so far it's given us child labor, worker repression, legislative manipulation, impoverishing foreign countries, environmental destruction, violent union oppression, sweatshops, education with a corporate agenda, etc. etc. etc.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher i don't think you realize we want the same things. the reason we don't have child labor in america, and do have clean water, clean air, is because we are a rich country, we aren't a rich country becuase we adopted socialist principals, but because we have the freedom to choose to work where we want to at a wage we agree on and purchase goods we find to be important to us, because the alternative is 1984. i'll take the negatives of capitalism over the altneratives anyday.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython Like how Exxon purposefully shut down power plants to drive up the prices! Or how electricity plants were privatized in southern America to impoverish the populace to create a cheap workforce. Or how Monsanto invented seeds that don't reproduce so the farmers always have to buy new seeds from them. Or how the CEOs in this country earn 500 times the amount of workers whose wages haven't increased since the 1970s? There is more social engineering going on than you want to admit.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher before i explain your misunderstanding social engineering has NOTHING to do with this topic. Moreover, these are all private businesses making decisions, they can do whatever they want, becuase if they make the wrong move the market will punish them. Being as though the businesses you cite are still open for business, you are incorrect. if you can do better than exxon go for it, otherwise shut the fuck up.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@punkwasher i agree people have been paying into medicare, but it should NEVER have existed in the first place. that's the problem, when you make a giant fucked up government run program, you can't take it away. why can't people just use their own money to purchase the insurance they want at an affordable rate over 65? it's becuase medicare has eliminated the market for it.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@boristhepython Because they're 65 and probably not working anymore, that's why they can't just buy it. Where's that income supposed to come from? The social security that the GOP raided? The jobs that are being outsourced? What about the unemployed? Shall we just let them die in the streets, diseased and miserable? How are they supposed to pay for it in a country with 300 Million people but only 100 Million jobs? How does the free market fix that? Trickle down?
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher no one told them to not save their money their entire life!! 45 working years and they don't have a plan? sure, the GOP raided SS, but why did our people trust the government with 12% of their income in the first place! outsourcing is good, because trade is good, if you don't allow free trade you're limiting choice and creating black markets there is an unintended consquence that is worse than the problem you are trying to solve with every point you make.
boristhepython 6 months ago
@punkwasher The fact is you have no basic understanding of economics. Everyone should take care of eachother. I love that idea. Ive never been to Germany so i cant say but being an american i can say thats a fantasy land. It doesnt work like that, the government cannot take care of everyone when people have the rights we have in america. There will never be a complete agreement, and people like you will never care to understand both sides of the fence.
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 It seems to work for Germany, France, Canada and England. Why won't America get on the band wagon? Or are you people too busy worshiping the rich? Here's a hint, maybe if the rich paid taxes, your health care could be paid for. Maybe your wars wouldn't be bankrupting the country either then, it's their war anyway, why are we paying for it? You've never read Marx. You'd see that what we're seeing is the end results of Capitalism: All the money in the hands of the few.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher Were seeing the results of too big of a government. Thats all, read the "road to serfdom" Listen to Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowel. Its worth a listen if your going to argue your point. Capitalism is not about getting all the money into the hands of a few. That does nothing but devalues the dollar. Unfortunetly there are people that hold money but the ratio is far less than what you the media tells you. Capitalism works, Keynesian economics dont. Thats very evident.
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 HAHAHAHA, yeah, the government with its subsidies for Tobacco, Oil and other PRIVATE companies. That's called a Corporatocracy. And if it's not about getting all the money in the hands of the few, why do the top 20 % control most of the wealth in the US? It's like, you say this, but reality is the exact opposite. This has been going on for centuries as well. There has always been a plutocratic conspiracy against the majority of mankind and just accepting that isn't going to help.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher Subsidies are horrible. There a horrible idea of economics. and they dont work. Thank you for bringing that up and helping my point! Your a little confused. Hail HItler right? Thats what you want? Work for the government for food and healthcare, let them determine the quality of each you recieve? Enjoy, Im glad you dont come here to vote!
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 I am an American and I vote. You do not understand socialism. Would you rather have profit driven insurance companies determine the quality of services you receive? Because that's what happening! Without Obama telling companies they can no longer deny services, they would've still denied coverage. Also you committed a godwin and I can therefore disregard your opinion. Was fun talking to you!
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher YES I DO, i want someone who loves profit, becuase that means they have an incentive to do well, without an incentive people do not innovate. if doctors didn't love profit they wouldn't goto school i understand socialism, it's not a good idea and it can't work. i really don't get it, how is king obama telling people they cannot deny coverage is a good thing. it's a private business, why do they have to answer to anyone except their shareholders or their customers?
boristhepython 6 months ago
@punkwasher I would rather pay my insurance company not only be cause it creates jobs but it creates competition. It creates higher medical standards. And the price shifting is simply be cause these beloved entitlement programs force doctors to shift the price to the privatly insured.
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 So... no one works for medicare. Your taxes are not employing someone in that administration and it isn't creating a single job for anyone in that huge program? And a cheaper public option will not force the private insurance to lower their prices to compete? And the whole private health insurance thing hasn't driven the prices of health care up, unlike in countries with a public option? I'm not talking theoretical here, these are things that are happening right now. Check your facts.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher But how many jobs is this Obamacare going to eliminate when private buisness cant compete. Think of the quality issue. When private buisness has to compete theyl find newer better resources. Incentive to do good buisness is there. When government turns into buisness it eliminates all of that. Its focus turns to the politicans that benefit. Government is not a buisness. Medicaid and Medicare have great intentions but there extremely flawed.
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 But they do not do good business. They are driving the costs of health care up, eating up payments with bonuses to their CEOs and their quality is no better than countries with a public options. You didn't check your facts, your just spouting the theoretical propaganda they want you to believe. In Germany, there are still private health insurance companies, despite a public option, so you're just flat out wrong. It's not about profit, it's about having a healthy productive populace!
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher just because YOUUU dont' think they do good business, doesn't mean they don't. There isn't just "coke and pepsi" when it comes to insurance companies there are a ton to choose from, if people don't like the one they have they can vote for a different one by spending their money elsewhere.
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 Then why isn't every single person in this county insured? If it's so affordable, why isn't it affordable? Why do corporations take out life insurance policies on employees? Check out the dead peasant insurance deal for a marvel of the free market insurance system: Corporations literally profiting from the death of their employees. Enjoy your fascism!
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher Cause its a good some people choose to buy. Costs of price shifting make prices higher. Why do you think government provided healthcare is so great? What benefit will that create and for whom? It will do nothing but set more regulations on procedures, drugs and hault the progress of new medicines longer than it is currently doing. The pros of it are only to satisfy the satisfied, not the ones with aspirations and still believe in the american dream. Your eliminating choice.
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 It's just that... well... it's not working for millions of people. Other countries have figured it out, why can't America? Are you not even in the slightest bit embarrassed that France has a better health care system? What about Canada? Not embarrassed that they've beaten America in that respect either? Not embarrassed that Finland (!) has a better wealth distribution? The way I see it, America needs to catch up with the world.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher I didnt know everyone is doing so great. I dont think socialism is the key to "catch up". As far as being embarrased im not. I dont agree with what the government is trying to do (get bigger). And i didnt come here from such a great place to complain about the way things are. I dont want to wait for everyone else to be seen by the doctor first. Id rather pay for insurance and have better quality, one of my many choices as a free american. Why should we let them ruin health care too?
vied54 6 months ago
@vied54 Furthermore Why should the rich have to pay such a high percentage of taxes? 12% of $20 is far less than 12% of $2 million. If the tax code werent so messed up and complicated and unfair there wouldnt be loopholes for major corporations to slip thru. And if government didnt work with corporations and everything was honest this wouldnt be a problem to begin with. Too much government too much regulation!
vied54 6 months ago
Everyone in Washington knows that Paul Ryan has been told he has a million dollar a year lobbying job for the health industry if he gets his health care law passed.
Here's how it works-he lies through his teeth to get it passed-the healthcare insurance industry makes billions more from vouchers while still denying it's customers health care.
Meanwhile this nigger gets a cushy one million dollar a year job as a lobbyist. Way to sell out your own people Ryan!
Vetwolf13 8 months ago
The Republicans has given Obama another four years! They gave big business billion of dollar FICA Tax break that cut Social security down to 20 years from forty! The speaker of the house is about as dumb as they come and he needs to be removed as speaker. Obama on the other hand is trying to put Americans under the UN gun Ban. He made the deal with the speaker to cut FICA knowing it would do great damage to Social security. He said when he was elected that he would protect SS and MC, he lied!
bobbybmusicrecording 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thanks to liberal policies America can no longer afford to pay for medicare, social security, unemployment and many other services. We also need to lower the minimum wage to $2/hr in order to compete with China and bring jobs back home. Fiscally responsible conservatives like Paul Ryan and John Boehner know this and are currently
working to end these wasteful handout programs and bring the minimum wage down so that America can be great again. God bless the GOP!
GOPkicksbutt 8 months ago
Single Payer health care now!
JImmy4336 10 months ago
While all of these Democrats out there think their way of spending the US budget is best. I believe they should step back and take a look at the financial state of the Blue states. Just a hint Most are in terrible shape. But if you take one state in particular Louisiana. Here is a state controlled by democrats for the better part of 50 years, finely they elect a conservative republican Bobby Jindal and wouldn't you know he has turned there budget around. Go figure.
vynstik 1 year ago
love you love you love you. :) lol you rock man
bonnita1010 1 year ago
obamacare doesn't give people healthcare. it actually takes it away from those who already have health insurance by squeezing them out of the marketplace through higher prices and taxes so that it can later be turned over to those who do not work. its classic wealth redistribution. my employer is tinkering with the idea of cancelling the benefit package because of price. so who am i going to hold responsible when that happens? the democrats. the dems are already losing in polls.
yzerman19wingnut 1 year ago
@yzerman19wingnut Nope, you got that mixed up with the current system. Obama's bill specifically states that people can not be denied care. Besides we have wealth redistribution: From everyone to the top 2%. That's seem fair, right? 100 people out of 300 Million with all the money, yeah, that works... for them.
punkwasher 6 months ago
@punkwasher But you dont understand the simple buisness of it. It eliminates all competition therefore lowering quality of healthcare. How can you expect quality to be the same when the government names there price. If obamacare says you cant turn down any (like you just said) who names the price for healthcare procedures? The government does and who creates the theroy of how much healthcare procedures cost at that point? THE GOVERNMENT DOES! Wen need competition in every buisness.
vied54 6 months ago
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Medicare unfunded liability: $76,148,426,000,000 (Source: National Debt Clock). In an attempt to socialize medicine we have traded personal/family/community/state responsibility for a chance to ruin everyone in the U.S. equally. What will be the governments solution for this failure? Further socialization of medicine and further ruining of freedom. What they are celebrating is a robbery from the individual in the name of the collective.
CWSmith1982 1 year ago
Listen Man! The American Dream is OVER! Rugged individualism is no longer viable in a world where a men simply couldn't survive without extra help. Can a man get a good job and work his way out of poverty if he can't afford education? Could a man afford insurance without a good income? Many millions work their asses off to feed their families, and they wouldn't be able to afford insurance. They need help if they are to survive.
TheVoiceOfReason93 2 years ago
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1. Some people are poor
2. they can't afford school
3. Can't get good jobs without education
4. they can't work their way out of poverty
5. they can't afford insurance
6. their decendents go back to point 1.
A vicious cycle. Where do they turn to when poor little bobby goes down with cancer? God? The policemen? The clowns?
How about someone who could pay his bills for him so that he don't have to F***ing die?!
TheVoiceOfReason93 2 years ago
Medicare is broke, and full of fraud. The only reason it's so popular is, as John Stossel so eloquently puts it: "People like to get stuff free." Or seemingly free. Even though they don't get nearly as much from the system as they put in to it throughout their working life.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
The Mayo Clinic has stopped taking Medicare patients: Welcome to ObamaCare/
speakingtruuth 2 years ago
I am 20 years old, and i am piss off at Medicare!!! It is bankrupting this whole nation. By the time me and my generation will be "eligible" for medicare, Medicare will be so much in debt, that it will fail to pay for any of our healthcare. It is immoral to give children such massive debt!!!
RRbattlefield 2 years ago
Medicare is unconstitutional.
jcfan42 2 years ago 2
How's it unconstitutional?
AndyLaurence84 2 years ago
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The Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution reads:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
There are no provisions for the care of the health of the people contained within the Constitution, except perhaps some regulation based around the Commerce Clause, so the Federal Government should not have gone so far as it has.
jcfan42 2 years ago
Conservatives love to quote the tenth, but you forget the "Necessary and Proper Clause". The power of congress to make laws that affect the entirety of the country is written into that clause.
crazytvfan815 2 years ago
This clause does not make Medicare Constitutional; it refers to the preceding enumerated powers of Congress, none of which provide for specific rather than general welfare. Congress should clearly be able to make laws which affect the entirety of the country, however, there is no clause which provides for federally-run (or mandated) health insurance.
jcfan42 2 years ago
@crazytvfan815 That power is to assist in the other specific enumerated powers in Article One, Section Eight. It is not a power to create a new power that is not listed in the article. If congress could do anything it wanted they founders wouldent have spent months fighting over the role of congress and it wouldent be necessary to list the powers of congress.
CWSmith1982 1 year ago
@AndyLaurence84 Under the constitution congress has seventeen enumerated powers. THATS IT! Medicare is not one of them.
CWSmith1982 1 year ago
Medicare is not unconsitutional.
darkvampire5555 2 years ago
How does the Constitution support Medicare? I put forth that this idea was based on the Canadian system of universal health coverage, and hence was not based on the Constitution.
jcfan42 2 years ago
It most certainly IS unconstitutional. Not that Liberals care about the constitution anyway.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
@TimeWarp66
medicare is not unconstitutional. Medicare falls under General Welfare. Witch the government has the right to do. And saying Liberals don't care about the constitution is just showing your ignorance. Remember conservatives passed the USA patriot act act witch gave the government the right to tap phoned lines-That's constitutional. TO provide people with affordable health care is not unconstitutional. so take your ignorance ass some where else
darkvampire5555 2 years ago
@darkvampire5555
Conservatives didn't pass the patriot act. Republicans did. Go check Ron Paul's voting record if you'd like to know how an actual conservative votes. And the General Welfare clause in the constitution says absolutely nothing about the federal government providing socialized medicine to the elderly in the form of medicare lol. Don't be ridiculous.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
@TimeWarp66 Health care falls under general welfare. Conservatives did pass the usa patriot. Mostly republican conservatives did. and mostly conservatives hang out in the republican party. and by the way the constitution was written by liberal's, and the first constitution of the usa was written by conservatives. do u not know anything?
darkvampire5555 2 years ago
@darkvampire5555
When refering to true conservatism I'm talking about Libertarianism, and no, not a single true conservative voted for the patriot act. Only neocons. As I said before, "general welfare" is a vague and broad term, having absolutely nothing to do with medical care. And no, the founders of this country who wrote the constitution were all Libertarians, who recognized the evils of big government.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
@TimeWarp66 Actually general welfare has everything to do with medical care. And yes the founding father who did write the constitution were liberals. They weren't called liberals back than but they were liberals, who believed in bigger government. You forget when America first started up the power went to all the states in the first constitution. And i think your confusing conservatism with libertarians.
darkvampire5555 2 years ago
@darkvampire
1) True conservatism IS Libertarianism.
2) The founders of this country were Liberal and believed in bigger government???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh boy, you should do stand up!
3) Why is it that each bill of rights begins with the sentence: "Congress shall pass no law."? If they believed in big government, wouldn't each right begin with "Congress must pass laws garenteeing the right to medical care...etc. The US is based on a limited government philosophy. And it has served us well.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
@TimeWarp66 Your a fucking Idiot, it says congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise. HAHA! The founding fathers wanted the federal government to have more control over the states. If they didn't believe in bigger government than we will be living in a society where all the states had all the power and the federal had limited power!! so how can you sit here and tell me that the founding fathers didn't want bigger government?
darkvampire5555 2 years ago
It's spelled YOU'RE. Dumbass. What a great way to start a paragraph. YOU'RE really going to convince your political opponents of your way of thinking with that kind of logic! Fail.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
@TimeWarp66 Aww look who got upset when he got proved wrong=)
darkvampire5555 2 years ago
Well darkretard5555, I didn't get "proved wrong". In fact, you didn't prove anything. Besides YOUR inability to spell BASIC words. Fail.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
@TimeWarp66 if you say so
darkvampire5555 2 years ago
The constitution also says nothing about allowing illegal immigrants to attend public schools, so why are they allowed?
Because of the 14th amendment, and the courts have ruled (numerous times) that illegals have a constitutional right to take advantage of everything citizens have within their respective states because of the 14th amendment (the terminology "people" is used rather than "citizens").
Universal Health Care isn't unconstitutional, even if it covered illegals, don't kid yourself.
BipolarBomber 2 years ago
@BipolarBomber At one point in history, slavery was perfectly constitutional.
SexSteakSoda 1 year ago
@BipolarBomber Exactly which article in the constitution makes government ran healthcare constitutional? I allready know what your going to say but this should be fun anyway.
CWSmith1982 1 year ago
@CWSmith1982 I'd argue that the 14th amendment makes it permissible, but the beauty of the constitution is that it's a guideline to our legislative process, not a can and can't list. It was designed to be flexible so that when the world changes it doesn't prevent us from being a successful country. There is no way the founding fathers could even perceive of universal healthcare so there is certainly nothing that permits it but there's also nothing that negates it.
BipolarBomber 1 year ago
@BipolarBomber The 14th Amendment? The 14th Amendment gives congress absolutly no power but to ensure there is equal protection under the law in our liberties. You cant make new junk up in the constitution to suit your needs. Either Congress has the power to do it or they dont. And thoes powers are listed under Article one Section eight. Under that article there is no power to implement universal healthcare or take money away from U.S. citizens for an insurance program. James Madison agrees.
CWSmith1982 1 year ago
@darkvampire5555
James Madison (THE FATHER OF OUR CONSTITUTION) "With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
I guess James Madison must be ignorant too huh?
CWSmith1982 1 year ago 4
This guy is an intellectual midget. The reason it is political suicide is because people have paid into the system and if you take medicare away many of them would have no care at all. That doesn't make medicare a good system, it just means people depend on it. Just like ramen noodles aren't very good for you, but it sure beats nothing especially when you've already paid for it.
TexasJoe1985 2 years ago
I'm sick of this "The Congressional Budget Office says this so it must be true." bullshit.
Hoverboy37 2 years ago
medicare should pick up every person who gets dumped by their HMO. Then Medicare should send that HMO a bill for all the pre-existing conditions they end up having to pay for. HMOs are nothing but evil scum..they killed 100 people today, and every day..look it up if you dont believe me.
pissonrushsgrave 2 years ago
every person should be entitled to buy into Medicare...just tell me the price, and im there..Old seniors who have Medicare and shout down health care reform are old selfish bastards...they have their's, and everybody else can go to hell..thats how they think..its shameful for old people to think that way.
pissonrushsgrave 2 years ago
Obama's obvious lie about Medicare. Obama claims they are not going ration care but he plans to cut Medicare by $500 billion over ten years. The cuts are coming at the time when the number of people on Medicare is growing each year. Obama claims the cuts will come because of improvements in efficiency and less fraud and waste. The Congressional Budget Office says not so and that only 1% of the $500 billion will come from being more efficient. The remaining cuts will result is less care.
roncram 2 years ago
So you are opposed to cutting fraud and waste....
pissonrushsgrave 2 years ago 2
Of course I am not opposed to cutting fraud and waste, but the Congressional Budget Office has said only 1% of the $500 billion cut in Medicare will be recouped from cutting fraud and waste. Medicare rations care now. If they cut $495 billion in Medicare services at a time when the number of Medicare recipients is growing by 30%, people will not get the healthcare they need. Obama just does not understand economics. He is over his head and people realize it now.
roncram 2 years ago
The town hall people arent fighting for smaller governement, they are fighting for the status quo, they dont care what happens to health care costs because they are not on the hook for them. Most of them are seniors not young people. They dont have to pay that why they could give a crap.
krillin876 2 years ago 2
You do know that you are simply echoing every Obama supporter right?
Non-biased? Not you boys.
wormer105 2 years ago
Outstanding!
mccainisthrough 2 years ago
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Obama's Politics of Collective Redemption
By Kyle-Anne Shiver
And in this seemingly redemptive offering, Obama may be promising what only God can actually deliver, in the form of yet another, more eloquent, version of the same old utopian dream that started with Rousseau and Marx.
teton99 2 years ago
Health Care will be including CARE once its public. They said the Stimulus would not work. Hartford Courant Front page 7/5/09. The stimulus funds have created more jobs than can be filled until training catches up with demand. The economy is the only thing slowing the Connecticut Green Economy from becomming the states fastest growing industry.
Connecticuts Energy Conservation Industry is creating more jobs than any other sector due to the stimulus. So Stimulus = Success & Health Care=Success
MrAntiRepublican 2 years ago
If people like something that gives them free crap, they obviously want to keep it. However, that does not mean that it is a working system. Also, it wouldn't really mean that much if they proposed to take it away, it's just that a bill has never been proposed and passed to do it.
Pankakeface2 2 years ago
Agreed with TYT!
Working all my life in the healthcare billing industries. Here's my take a Single Payer will WORK, can extend from Medicare program for all, no age restriction. Private Insurance CEOs got millions of dollars, but denied medical claims to gain profits. Either paid for medical or denied Cosmetic services. I agreed with Capitalism in America, but not in the Healthcare. If you can't work due to health youre not contribute to society.Everyone should have some healthcare safetynet.
NightSociety 2 years ago
This man is having a conversation with himself. He's obviously insane.
Rilkir 2 years ago
Why is politics such a hard subject? The GOP isnt the greatest and neither is the Democratic party. They both obviously have their flaws and they both have their strengths. Unfortunately people only tend to look at the bad parts of both, depending on what side you follow. Take the time to learn about both, and not from one source, because that will led to a completely one sided view.
swedishgorilla1 2 years ago
Um, under private insurance, you have a bureaucrat too; just not a government one.
hellraiserheights 2 years ago
Just that with the private one, it's not that you would die before he found the paper work. You would die after he found it and told ou that you are not covered.
occhamsrazor 2 years ago
I love it when they say that you can't choose your doctor under universal healthcare.....like some doctor is not going to accept Medicare!! They'll be pushing patients away from them!
I can't believe we're arguing for healthcare!! It should be a given! ALL 1st world countries have universal healthcare except us!! This isn't capitalism, it's corporatism!!
lebaneseameer 2 years ago
if we let the radical obama agenda succeed there will be a slow clumsy government official between you and the doctor youl probably die before he even finds the paperwork
jogeryjogo 2 years ago
And you can back this up with what Jogeryjogo?
xCrazyJayx 2 years ago
The GOP lies about everything....its their specialty.
IndiMusicLover 2 years ago
We all know the real reason Republicans hate medicare is because it also benefits minorities, and they can't fathom someone who isn't white benefiting from the government in any way.
Family Guy put it best by saying "Republicans like to help those who already have the means to help themselves." Translation: if you aren't rich and white then fuck you.
MozVolta 2 years ago 8
Two thumbs up for your comment my friend.
princet07 2 years ago
@MozVolta
Another racist bigot. My father's from Norway and even he suffers discrimination, everyone thinks because he's a redhead he's immediately wealthy, he had to spend years to become a Law Professor before meeting my mother. He got no help, he gets stereotypes. Instead of turning to society and government (A way of saying 'I'm ineffective, someone loan me something') he gave up his teenage years. Hard work pays, using race for benefit is below dirt and harms the image of your nationality.
WeAreTheRiot 7 months ago
From a financial standpoint, the reason that Medicare's administrative cost percentage looks so good is that most of the people on it are elderly; and as such the costs of their care are higher than average, thus making the administrative cost relatively low. When you add in that Medicare doesn't cover jack, it's not all it's cracked up to be in some circles.
franksnow79 2 years ago
Cenk is great at foreign policy and civil liberties but terrible at economics.
We're broke! Doesn't anyone in either party get that little fact. Plus, a public option doesn't cure our medical COST issue nor does it increase medical quality. Plus, it will cost more than the politicians are stating as does every program.
Wake up folks! We're broke!
davejoe75 2 years ago
We're broke, but that's nothing a ltitle taxation wont' fix. The richest1% of our country own enough wealth to pay off the national debt several times and still have enough left over to feed the entire continent of Africa for 100 years.
Besides, as broke as we are, we're just going to get more and more broke the longer the insurance companies are allowed to suck the lifeblood out of our economy.
frellthat 2 years ago
Any "wealth transfer" is going to be popular with the transferees of the wealth, and if they're politically influential, to quote Cenk, "OF COURSE" you repeal it at your peril as a polititcian.
The popularity of Medicare with its "constituency" is a totally different issue from whether it "works" from such lines of inquiry as: is it a waste of money? is it going to bankrupt the country? does it create a perverse set of incentives for health care providers?, etc.
Not one of your best Cenk
Thelawisanass 2 years ago
That is his whole point. If medicare was so wasteful why don't they cite that? If doctor visits was hampered then state it. It's popular cause it works. And works well. But republicians say socialized healthcare is bad. Well medicare is socialized healthcare. See where I'm going with this?
occhamsrazor 2 years ago
Absolutely spot on analysis, Cenk.
hotnuke 2 years ago
haha cenk is on target, like always
RayAtheist 2 years ago
I don't think anybody feels that Medicare is bad. That's just retarded.
Saying that because a thing is popular it is the right thing to do is quite a stretch. We could all agree that we should each get a free trip to Disney land, and our government could enforce it, but eventually Disneyland would go bankrupt, no matter how many people felt good about it.
My point is that Socialized Healthcare is probably going to be expensive. Our government is really far in debt. This is a bad time
Baconaisethe3rd 2 years ago
Are you saying that government spending on its citizens health is like paying a vacation at a resort for every citizen???
Come on that was not a good example, at all! Ppl have a right to have a portion of their taxes go to their health! Why is this even an issue with americans? I don't get it, ppl go bancrupt because of health issues or get sicker and sicker, that is not a viable option financially either, if you want to stick solely on monetary reason...
sidvidle 2 years ago
See the problem is not themselves they are worried about. Rush and other loud republicians have them thinking that all the care will go to "crackheads and babies mamas." You know those that are too lazy to work. So why should they support them. The funny thing is. They do it now what do you think happens when somebody goes to a county hospital get an operation or whatever and can't pay? Strange how Rush never says anything about the college student or the factory worker that just lost their job.
occhamsrazor 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I like to move the mouse and poke young turk in the head with the little arrow on my screen. I stab him in the head and poke his eyes and stick it up his nose. it is fun
friction00815 2 years ago
It's starting to get annoying now. Same topics, same guy, same tone. We get it, republicans don't like public healthcare. If you're such a progressive cenk, why not move to canada?
Because you love the usa? Most of your stories criticize your government and your own people.
Claymenza 2 years ago
...He does an opinion show. Do you not know what an opinion show is?
Moreover, I don't understand why you think criticism and love are mutually exclusive. In fact love, since it is accompanied by a strong form of care about something, can actually prompt criticism. If I love my child and he's run off the rails doing god knows what, it would not be out of love that I say nothing.
iwpoe 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he's nothing but a loud mouth bonehead with a video camera
FredFoothand 2 years ago
And you're just an ignorant conservative with internet anonymity and a low level of education
Rantandreason 2 years ago 4
Rubterandreblahblah,
I'm not a conservative dumb ass.
FredFoothand 2 years ago
then stop acting like one, dumb ass
Rantandreason 2 years ago
Runterd,
Not acting like one dick lips.
FredFoothand 2 years ago
Have you ever heard a duck dry heave?
hassleoffa 2 years ago
It's funny that you ask that, because I indeed have heard a duck dry heave ;)
Rantandreason 2 years ago
So is Rush Limbaugh it's just that he lacks the camera.
Cazz814 2 years ago
cazz,
so what?who was talking about Rush Limballs? Not me.
FredFoothand 2 years ago
Weren't you referring to Cenk in the comment I responded too? And based on your response to it I take it you aren't a fan of his so let's just disregard that comment. Sorry.
Cazz814 2 years ago
Because some people have the balls and brains to stay and try to change opinions.
PrUnEJuIcEtHeThIrD 2 years ago
What does that even mean? Cenk, like me, actually does love his country, hence he wants to see it improve. I find it hard to believe that that isn't obvious.
eirefrance 2 years ago
"The greatest form of Patriotism is dissent" - unknown author.
MrJLT3 2 years ago
Because he wants to see USA improve.
42Unknowns 2 years ago
See, that is the difference between intelligent people and morons. Smart Americans want to be represented, they want real conversations and not political posturing. They do not like the skewed national news media to tell them what they think and should believe. It's the same topics because these will be the issues that define the generation, and effect the next. Canada? They talk shit about us behind our backs and come here for opportunity like everyone else. They bitch about all and do nothing.
Lorenzo312 2 years ago
Canada talks shit behind your backs? Let me do it to your face; that is the dumbest generalisation I have ever heard! Oh and about coming to the States for oppurtunity like everybody else... Americans do the same here, so do other ppl from other countries to different countries, period. Immigration is not an ''American'' concept, sheesh! Canada bitches about all and we do nothing? We have a mechanism in place to remove PMs that do crazy shit, almost immediately! Read a book and grow up, please.
sidvidle 2 years ago
Which is why your PM suspended parliament last year because they would not wait for a comprehensive stimulus package... sound familiar? They have the same problems, just at a smaller scale because they compete on a smaller scale, internationally. And I do hear endless complaining from the Canadians here, about the weather, about the driving, about the rudeness, and virtually everything else. They seriously need to just adapt and get over it.
Lorenzo312 2 years ago
So you're basing all your great knowledge of Canada on a handfull of ppl you meet that complaign about traffic and weather??? that also is a common irritant on all continents... maybe you should adapt as you put it and stop being rude! and Harper didn't suspend parlamient' the GG prorogued it. And by the way this was successful because the conservatives lied about the numbers' gave them time to regroup and show canadians the true state of the economy!!! Which is a very very good thing!
sidvidle 2 years ago
What's prorogued? and what does this partial sentence mean: "because the conservatives lied about the numbers' gave them time to regroup and show canadians the true state of the economy"?
lakesidelivin 2 years ago
"Why not move to Canada?" ... Christ people are ignorant.
1) It's a nice country and full of nice people.
2) Maybe they figured out how to do something we haven't yet.
3) In business there is a concept of "Best Practices" it means you search out different approaches to things and take the best of everything and apply it on a continual basis so your company constantly improves. Why not learn from others? Do you think they don't learn from us?
4) Real patriots want their country to improve.
hassleoffa 2 years ago 2
in the end the pigs looked at the men. and the men looked at the pigs. and there was no difference.
ddamico3 2 years ago
I hate my car, but I'd be pissed if someone took it away without replacing it with anything.
Great argument, man!
tkwsni 2 years ago
Your analogy is a little messed up. What Cenk is saying is if Medicare is terrible because it doesn't work, then we should scrap it. Regardless if you "hate" your car, I assume it still works, thus it still serves its primary function.
Now, because Medicare works and many people depend on it, he's saying it's political suicide to go after it because all in all it does what it's intended to do.
One example of a failed program would be DARE.
dukesmaviddicky 2 years ago
Not necessarily.
Cenk essentially says "Conservatives say 'Medicare does nothing valuable, so we should get rid of it completely and replace it with nothing'". Of course everyone disagrees with this statement.
That's why no one defends this position. No one.
This is a classic straw man argument. He presents a viewpoint no one on earth holds, then says, "This argument is nonsense. Therefore, I am right."
tkwsni 2 years ago
I think you missed Cenks point entirely. What Cenk is saying is "Look at what socialized medicine can do" and then begs the question "Why are Republicans so adamantly against socialized medicine, but say nothing about Medicare?" It's because the idea of a public option and socialized medicine is a talking point for Republicans who only wish to 'beat' the Democrats at something, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that we already have socialized medicine, and it works.
dukesmaviddicky 2 years ago
Honestly, you don't find it odd that Republicans bash socialized medicine, but say nothing of Medicare?
dukesmaviddicky 2 years ago 2
Not really. Are there any entitlement programs people are actively campaigning against?
Once people have successfully gotten their leaders to give them money out of the coffers, it's political suicide to campaign against continuing to give them money. People like money from the public funds. They think it's free.
That's why conservatives try to avoid starting new entitlements. Because they know that once we institute one we'll have to fund it forever.
People learn helplessness fast.
tkwsni 2 years ago
tkwsni,
Taxpayers like myself get more value from single payer, than from all of the money you freeloading teabaggers pissed away on the Iraq war.
milkgodnl 2 years ago 2
milkgodnl,
I didn't go to a tea party. I prefer to keep my frustration and anger focused rather than lashing out against the air.
I was against the war pretty much from the beginning, so if your argument is, "the war is bad, therefore we should have single payer" then I'd say that's pretty weak.
Don't project.
tkwsni 2 years ago
So by you way of thinking any one who uses any "government entitlement program is a freeloader? Just trying to get your way of thinking...
occhamsrazor 2 years ago
Occhamsrazor,
I never used the word freeloader. I said many people treat money from government entitlement programs as if it's free, or "the government's money" instead of "the taxpayers' money". They eventually begin to feel they have a right to it. I wouldn't say this applies to everyone, but certainly a significant majority.
I think that to suggest otherwise is to be intentionally blind to the facts, not to mention human nature.
tkwsni 2 years ago
Cenk actually didn't say that it didn't do anything of value. He said if Medicare is so bad. He was meaning bad as in that it is a socialist program and socialist programs are suppose to be bad then why do'nt you get rid of it.
Also part of my taxes goes to my medical expense. And this is a bad thing? Or are you worried that those people will get used to the "free money?"
occhamsrazor 2 years ago
tkwsni,
Single Payor healthcare gives me -- the taxpayer -- better value for my money than the stuff GWB frittered my tax dollars away on..
milkgodnl 2 years ago
And even if it doesn't work at least it would mean the government is actively taking steps to help Americans get health care.
Sardonac 2 years ago
milkgodnl,
Single payer may give you better value than an unnecessary war, but if that's the standard we're using then so would putting it in a big pile and setting it on fire.
The system is broken. We need to start fresh. Using the same third-party payer system, but turning the private oligopoly into a public monopoly is not a good solution.
Medical cost inflation was in line with inflation as a whole until Medicare and Medicaid, then it skyrocketted. Why compound that mistake?
tkwsni 2 years ago
So your argument is that Republicans don't attack Medicare because it's a handout and not because it actually works?
1. I'm not buying it, if Medicare was a failed program Republicans would be the first to call the Democrats on it to stop the public option.
2. If what you say is true, which it's not, Republican ethics are seriously suspect.
dukesmaviddicky 2 years ago
No, I said that campaigning for stopping a handout is not a good political decision, especially when it benefits (old) people who vote.
Even if they really were serious about it, how are the Republicans going to stop the public option? They are in a fillibuster-proof minority in both houses. Their opinions mean less than nothing.
Finally, who in the world said I thought the Republicans had sound ethics? I'm a conservative, not a Republican, so don't lump me in there with those Martians.
tkwsni 2 years ago
Ok, but now we come full circle back to Cenks argument. If stopping a handout is a bad political decision, then Republicans obviously didn't get the memo about that for the public option. So what's your reasoning for that? Why attack the public option and not medicare?
dukesmaviddicky 2 years ago
Because it hasn't begun yet.
Before it's implemented, three quarters of the people don't even know it's being discussed, and the one quarter that does are arguing over whether it's a good idea or not.
Once it's implemented, a the vast majority of those who receive it adopt the position of "they better not take my money away."
tkwsni 2 years ago
I still don't see how this make Medicare immune to Republican backlash. If you were correct and Medicare is a failed system, it would simply stay a failed system since Republicans would be afraid of voter backlash if they wanted to terminate it. However, its workings would still be used against the public option as reason to not go forward with the public option.
dukesmaviddicky 2 years ago
Isn't that what's happening?
I thought that was Cenk's argument.
"If Medicare is so bad, why don't you try to eliminate it," seems to imply that Republicans have adopted the position that it's a failed system, and don't want it broadened as a public option.
It's immune from repeal because we have one or two generations of unemployable elderly who have been told not only that they can have Medicare, but that they have no option but to accept it. They've planned their finances accordingly.
tkwsni 2 years ago
Well actually Republicans aren't attacking Medicare. From what I've seen anyways. Which is why I said it's odd, since if it's a failed program, Republicans could still use it as an example to stop the public option without risking voter backlash since closing a program is much different than criticizing one. So if they're not talking about Medicare, I assume the program is working well enough and can't be used as an example to stop the PO.
dukesmaviddicky 2 years ago
Ummm...
The entire premise of this video is that the Republicans are criticizing Medicare as a bureaucratic mess.
If they're not talking about Medicare, then what's the point of this video, and why are we talking about it?
tkwsni 2 years ago