Jousting armour requirements for the World Jousting Tournament

[CuntyMcShitterman]

i didnt hear anything about the REQUIREMENTS for tournaments

[culweygh]

Every time you refer to it as "chainmail" "chain mail" or any other combination of those two words, a Kitten is killed at the Royal Armouries. 

[TheLOLReally]

What? Chain mail sucks against arrows, good for not getting cut tough.

[MrDocProfHe]

@TheLOLReally At close range yes. At a longer range arrows would most likely plink off, or get slightly stuck in the mail without harm to the knight.

[wisgliebau]

Also, as a final nitpick, the "English Warbow" was not the effective component in defeating mail during the High Middle Ages in Europe. Surviving bows from Asia and the Islamic world which proved futile against European armor often had just as high or even higher tensile strength in their arms/siyahs as any longbow did. It was the evolution of the arrowhead into the sharp bodkin points that beat mail in that time, and no bit of any bow technology in particular.

[cbrusharmy]

@wisgliebau Exactly as I had in mind, particularly heads like the long type 10 or Needle bodkins, etc, etc., But I didn't think we were going into that much detail. Also, there's some debate/evidence in further developments in warbow shape (slight reflex), but nevermind that. The point is that a bow with a draw weight well exceeding 100 pounds, coupled with a heavy livery arrow with appropriate head (which may not be entirely necessary when only combating chainmail and a gambeson, . . .

[cbrusharmy]

@cbrusharmy . . .riveted or no) is going to effectively rape that armor at any fair range. And as far as locking down a specific time period, it's best to match it with the period in which the armor technology manifest in the video would be well established, thus putting in in a period where the bow in question would be more common that that heavy plate armor which, by the way, could be defeated shy of 50 yards (perhaps less) with proper plate-cutter heads and when properly struck. . .

[cbrusharmy]

@cbrusharmy. . Okay, getting bored. Where was I?  Final note: The highest quality chainmail and/or plate would only have been possessed by a very few elite, not the average knight; that stuff was way too expensive. So, to restate and clarify my initial statement: In the period depicted in this video, bow technology (which includes all aspects of its missiles) was such that no chainmail could be reasonably expected to be adequate protection against it, hence part of the demand for plate armor.

[wisgliebau]

Period alternating riveted/solid ring mail could often have links as small as 6mm in outer diameter, and this armor was almost impossible to penetrate until the development of the bodkin arrows in the 13th century in Western Europe.

[cbrusharmy]

@wisgliebau Hello, missed this post :-)

[cbrusharmy]

Chainmail is no protection from arrows, though it's good for minor slashing (doesn't stop blunt force trauma) and other cuts. Hats off for the jousting.

[wisgliebau]

@cbrusharmy Funny that during the Crusades when mail and linen were all that the European knights wore, particular Muslim authors complain of the impossibility of being able to shoot at them successfully. Armored men supposedly fought on with dozens of arrows sticking to them like pin cushions because the mail links and gambesons were hardly penetrated.

[cbrusharmy]

@wisgliebau I fear we are both being too vague. Let me try this again: chainmail is no defense against an English Warbow. There are many reports about many things and too many variables and not enough time to get into a proper argument, and I really don't care to do so.

[wisgliebau]

@cbrusharmy It is an extremely vague and debated subject, yes. But your initial comment said that "Chainmail is no protection from arrows." I provided a single example that made that statement invalid... My citation is from The Chronicles of Ibn Al-Athir, who wrote contemporaneously to the third and fourth Crusades and provides an eyewitness account of the success of mail against arrows. I didn't mean to go any further with the argument, as it's moot! Cheers. :D