The Christians who read the bible did not have conscience, hanged Black people.l Lynched them.. ethnicallu cleansed American Indians, committed the holocaust and continie to ethnically cleanse in Rwanda.
Ray comfort is saying that because of the shit we have here was created by designing humans, therefore space and the universe has to have a human like designer.
The conscience is the result of thousands of years of social evolution, with mortal man deciding for themselves, and from themselves, that which is acceptable actions in a self-governing society.
You deny the existence of 30m Hindu gods, Shaman gods, Greek/Roman gods, African Spirit gods, Scandinavian gods, Mesopotamian gods except YHWH. You are as Atheistic as I denying the existence of so many gods. I only deny one more, YOURS.
Comfort has a steel collar around the reasoning center of his brain, which restricts his thinking to an extremely narrow focus, to the total ignorance of all else. It is the perfect embodiment of "Don't confuse me with facts!" Why anyone over the age of 9 could ever take this street performer seriously is a serious question for our country at this time.
Ray, you failed at proving the existence of god. All you proved was the existence of buildings, paintings, and cars. With buildings, paintings and cars we have evidence that shows without a shadow of a doubt that these things were built by humans. I can watch my child draw a painting and build a Lego tower.
I can't watch your god do ANYTHING. Why? Because he doesn't exist! And you failed to provide proof that he does!
HA! He mentions how AMAZING the human body is, but he fails to mention the faults, such as ONE breathing tube for breathing and eating (can we say CHOKE?) - or an appendix that can explode at any time (what's the appendix good for anyway?).
Ray, there's so much more to it than having "eyes that can see and a brain that works."
Even animals have eyes that can see and a brain that works. I bet mr comfort would LOVE for everyone to be like the animals, hunting down jesus just like animals hunt down their evening meal.
You're a moron, Ray. We already have evidence as to how a coca-cola can was INVENTED. What we don't have is evidence that a god exists. You FAIL on so many levels.
No, the painting is not OBSERVABLE proof that there was a painter. Observable proof of a painting having a painter is watching someone paint a picture.
Same as a building. If we didn't have evidence that humans have the ability to build, then scientists would be scratching their heads as to what this tall THING is.
I like how my belief is being question. and mocked by christians.
Answer this question religious people. "what is the purpose of god?" you might say its to guide us, but why make the whole cycle? is it possible that sheer boredom (of course it is, only hypocrit would deny).
How the fuck can you compare a painting or a Coca Cola can to the fucking universe? Mr. Comfort believes he is making a point, but in reality, he is not my friends.
To use the same logic, if there HAS to be a God due to the earths harmony, how an ear works, etc. then the same should apply to God. Where did HE come from? Huh?....What's that you say? God has always been? Well then why can't this apply to the universe? I find abiogenesis more likely than an invisible, all knowing, all powerful, man in the sky that's never been seen or heard.
"The idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I am unable to take seriously." (Albert Einstein, Letter to Hoffman and Dukas, 1946)
"A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
(Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930)
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. " Albert Einstein 1945
I've seen the argument before (with bridges), but saying "this building is obviously built" is about, the worst, argument for intelligent design. The builder, barring cancer and car accidents, is still alive. A little searching and I can see, touch, hear, hell, I could taste him if I wanted. A document was written about him and his plan to build the building, we'll call it a blueprint. Written while he was alive, by a man that is still alive, fact checked, and also, coherent.
almost everything he says draws upon faith, the conscience is not evidence that it is god given. only things that could point towards it - which is definately not scientific
But Ray...then who made the "Coca-Cola Company"? He is only pushing the question back further and doesn't explain who made God? Because according to his logic nothing can be created out of nothing right!? (something he accuses the big-bang theory to be saying, which btw is a false accusation) At least scientists try to find answers, based on empirical data, to questions that we do not yet know the answer to! Then he stops "arguing" and begins preaching...
ray comfort and his analigus galpal kirk support child rape, infanticide, segregation, racism, misogyny, war, lying and they are treasonous members of my species. If there is a hell these corrupt nastly black inside awful people will spend some time there
Good point about lying making you a liar. Has he ever made love? Because it seems to me, that somewhere near a climax you stop making love, you turn to just plain f***ng. So, if you have ever made love, that makes you a f***er. Gee, unfallable logic.
Good point about lying making you a liar. Has he ever made love? Because it seems to me, that somewhere near a climax you stop making love, you turn to just plain f***ng. So, if you have ever made love, that makes you a f***er. Gee, unfallable logic.
Good point about lying making you a liar. Has he ever made love? Because it seems to me, that somewhere near a climax you stop making love, you turn to just plain f***ng. So, if you have ever made love, that makes you a f***er. Gee, unfallable logic.
This discussion smells like bananas. Ray and Kirk suffer so much trying to convince themselves of their beliefs and they keep reinforcing their belief that's built like a house of cards that'll collapse with the slightest poke from atheists.
these atheists didn't really present their arguments well...compared to other..but then again it's hard to compare to dawkins, hitchens, dennet, and the lead head, Harris.
The reason man hasn't developed a camera anywhere near as advanced as the human eye is because we haven't developed cameras for millions and millions of years. We've done it for almost 200 years, and look how far we've come!
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i think its funny how even though Atheist do not believe, they still comment and search for these videos. they even ask questions on the video but not questions with actual interest but rather to mock the religion other people have chosen. Ive found that 85% of Atheist would rather mock Christianity then actually avoid it. if i didn't believe in something i wouldn't hang around it. i guess some people are on a less mature level.
I know isn't it ridiculous how people want to see other opinions and variations of opinions? What idiots, they should just read one book to get all their opinions!
@holyjesus because one book can't summarize all the knowledge of the world. Will you reject every single textbook or well documented report just because it is not the bible? If you want knowledge to be simple, you should try to live your life based on "The Cat in the Hat".
first of all id like to know where the 85% comes from.
creationists dont believe in evolution, yet they always look for some reason why it cant be true etc. so they hang around it. according to u thats immature.
republicans do not believe in the merit of public health care, yet they hang around it by asking questions etc. immature?
it seems u are confusing 'ignoring a debate' with maturity.
heres another reason why ur wrong: you seem to be a devout christian. so u dont believe in this whole
god does not exist thing. yet you hand around it by watching a debate about it and comment on it. and u mock the other side, which you dislike about atheists when they do that to you. hence, you do exactly what u deem immature and claim u dont do it, which, according to u, proves ur maturity. that my friend is a logical fallacy.
so heres ur choice: ur a hypocrite or an idiot. what will it be?
@GuerNuclaire you're mixing my words up, you understand what im saying but are trying to twist them in a way to cause an argument. because of this i will not go into an argument with you. you have you're opinions i have mine. you have you're beliefs i have mine. for the immature thing i was implying that it is immature for them to come to videos to just mock another persons belief. which indeed it is.
@stonesour3366 Where did you get the statistic, "85% of Atheist would rather mock Christianity then actually avoid it?" As far as mocking relgion, I do not. I want you to be ever ready to provide EVIDENCE for the faith that you have.
Biblebasher are the most ignorant, self-righteous bunch of baboons on this planet. The rest does not believe in their God. Atheism is not a religion, nor is Evolution. Darwin related his observation. Vince Sarich showed genetic commonality of living organism. Miller's experiment proved only one thing: conversion of inorganic to organic. Bb are simpletons, want simple solutions to complex problems. Celestial Mechanics cannot be explained to simpletons. Such shows are for morons.
@stonesour3366 its funny how atheists usually tend to say, "i dont give a shit what people believe. I don't look down on other people's beliefs." maybe the atheists on this page aren't those atheists
my point is to everybody, nobody is going to change anybody's mind, people gotta change their own minds, so dont worry about others' lives and beliefs, so stop worrying about whether or not somebody bases their life on a book, and stop mocking it
Classic stupid christian argument. Even if you "proove" you have to have a creator... you're GUESSING that creator if your christian God, but it could have been yet another being that created the Universe, and God is simply the creation of man's mind. Simply as that.
Most christian argument fail, because you can't go from "A" to "therefor, there's a God". You're assuming that because A exists, God must exist. That's not proof.
Coke cans aren't alive! That means they don't reproduce inherited characteristics with minute changes that get tested for survivability.
And THAT'S why we know there's a Coke can creator.
Life isn't subject to that logic. What a STUPID claim Ray! Same for the painting. You can't compare non-life to life in this way. If this isn't obvious to you you need to go back to school.
On the bright side I find these two class clowns hilarious so it's not all bad I suppose.
according to the bible...RAPE and SLAVERY are ok...Where are the 10th and 11th commandments saying that we shouldnt rape or inslave people!....no where...then, christians, how do we know that raping and slavery is wrong?
Oh yeah cuase its INATE in us...non atheist are unintelligent
Ray Comfort is a talentless tragedy who never made any money or achieved anything significant in his life until he discovered the lucrative business of evangelism in the US. He's a charlatan who stirs debate knowing that regardless of how facile or disingenuous his arguments are, he will get more PR, TV appearances and publicity for his books.
Why, Ray, did 'God' short-change animals? If 'God' did so purposely, wasn't that a bit cruel? Dope. You're haven't a clue, and your religion is bogus.
well lets look at a gun. it fits perfectly into my hand. fires lets say, 15 rounds per clip. and is designed TO KILL. the gun is too complex for me to explain, but someone must have made it; God. BUT WAIT!!! God said Tho shalt not kill... so why would he make this mechanical devise for killing, sometimes protecting, people? i guess god didnt make it because that contradicts god and god is infallible so he cant contradict himself... so that means...
2:10 does anyone know the types of propaganda? im 95% sure they are Loaded words(porvoke reaction), testimonial (i endorse 'x' or this person said 'y'), and i forget the rest. what does this seem like to you? why do these peoples opinion matter to me?
The human eye is an amazingly inticate organ as Comfort suggests. It is bewildering that Comfort would purport such insult to something that is the proven result of evolution. A study from Current Biology recently revealed a previously unrecognised link between certain components of sophisticated vertebrate eyes, like those in humans, and those of the primitive light-sensing systems of invertebrates.
There's a funny correlation between scientific discovery and the implausibility of creationism.
It is interesting how creationists use man's technological creations to parallel those of a supposed "God." The fact is they are not parallel. Comfort is illogical and debates like many other creationists by distorting the truth for their own agenda. It is unfortunate that this occurs, for the only interest science has is to form understanding for the betterment of man.
This person is proving absolutely nothing. He claims that he has scientific proof but as I'm listening to him I'm realizing that's pure rubbish. If he conceives a child who is born handicapped, I wonder what he will say about his perfect creator.
Hahah, he drops the names of all these different fields of science, as if he has "evidence" from those fields. But instead he pulls out a coke can and blabbers about how it can't come about by accident. I'd love to hear his "proofs" from his vast knowledge of those fields of science.
This idea has plagued the world because now all i hear is there must be a creator. No proof needed just there must be a creator. Thank you Kirk and Ray for destroying the brain of christians. I don't blame christians i just blame stupidity on the leaders of the mainstream christian theology
Ray doesn't even understand the principles he argues with. Pathetic.
You don't need faith to believe in painters or builders, as you can see with your eyes that there are painters and builders. You have physical proof of their existence.
He didn't actually supply ANY evidence. Just because HE can't envisage a universe without a maker, doesn't make the existence of the universe proof that there is one.
His 'proof' is that the creator exists because the universe is complex.
haha.... christians always using simple metaphors to describes complex concepts... the builder/watchmaker/painter argument is completely flawed. To understand this look at belaires comments below
Scientificus? I'm pretty sure the word "scientific" is derived from the English word "science" which is derived from the Latin word "scire" which means "to know."
It is lucky that Ray is not a lawyer because he would never get a job .. except when the police frame someone and need a defence lawyer guaranteed to get the accused the death penalty.
As far as the builder teleological argument. Besides the obvious issues, its not just that we have a building (premise A) that shows there was a builder (conclusion). Its that we have seen builders (premise B) that lead us to this fact. If I had never known of builders, to say this building in front of me was built by a builder, would be scientifically empty.
Premise C would be that all buildings need builders (and intelligent ones), which is itself an assumption unless proven, and would answer the conclusion already, making the argument circular i.e. illogical). But even if we had A, B, and C for the explanation of the universe, it still wouldn't be logical to then assume the conclusion. It has never been a good argument.
So we are to believe a book, that was written by goat herders, 2000 years ago. Instead of 150 years of scientists studying facts,the 1000's of bones, and what is in the real world.
Wow. So many things are wrong with this man's argument.
1. The Big Bang was not an explosion in space. It wasn't even an explosion. It was the expansion of spacetime and the creation of energy and matter.
2. Life didn't evolve from a pool of mud. There are many different theories concerning the origin of life.
3. A painting, car, and soda can must have a creator, but the same cannot be said for the universe. Quantum physics contains, to put it bluntly, the freakiest shit you will ever know.
3. The building blocks of all matter and existence - quarks and other elementary particles - can be examined to pop in and out of existence. On top of that, they can be logically inferred to both exist and not exist AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME when not observed. It's crazy, crazy stuff when you get into it, and Creationists don't realize that the nature of the universe and its origins do not follow the physical constants that we see in place today, much like Quantum Physics.
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no wonder why the bible call " fools" those who don't believe, you have to be a fool ( stupid) not to believe in a creator, but ofcourse atheist come from a monkey, so where did the monkeys come from, jejejeje. evidence??? get a mirror!
Did you by chance fail biology at school? Or even better, have any basic understanding about how evolution works?
A few questions:
Who created your creator?
What tells you the bible is true, or even written by god?
Taking unproofable metaphysical issues to earthly grounds comparing a painter that painted the painting is a pretty dumb argument. Untill you can conclusively proof you have seen god, it's quite naive to believe in such a thing. God is a bookmarker, untill science finds out :).
let me ask you this. Do your believe in gravity? Do you believe in matter? Do you believe in oxygen?
If there were no gravity our solar system would collapse and we would not be able to maintain life on earth. Matter is said to be a form of energy that can not be created or destroyed. You call these apostles hypocrites but yet many people believe that matter exist. Just as God has no creator he clearly shows his works, through his creations and his people.
but to say you believe in jesus christ, is to reject the theory of evolution and all that paleontologists have had to offer.
a vast majory of scientists have come to the conclusion that dinosaurs have been extinct for at least 65 million years. yet the creationist christians believe that earth is only 6000 years old. the gap from 65 million to 6000 is so huge, scientists fro mall around the world would have to be by so many years.
Stanekke, the answer to your question is no. Something can't come from nothing. Scientists have never said that the universe came from nothing. What they have said is that we don't yet know what the universe came from. It is Christians that have said that god has always existed, therefore he must have come from nothing.
The thing ray comfort has to acknowledge is that no atheist thinks we were created, he thinks we were created without a creator, which of course even ray comfort knows that if something has been CREATED, it must have a CREATOR. Now, if atheists believe there is no creator (we've already arrived at that state of mind), then logically, we were not created, and furthermore, if we never thought we were created through intelligent design, theres no reason for us to praise a god, let alone believe it.
I think what he says about einstein is very misleading, eistein reitterated time and time again that he was agnostic. Actually, fuck it, it's all misleading. If he's ever read a text book in his life, then he's a liar. Just wishing something so doesn't make it so I'm afraid.
i know ray comfort is the most hameless quote miner this world has ever seen. Its as if ray comfort works in the ministry of truth from 1984, where his job is to take truth, and either destroy any record of it, or contort it to make it the way he wants it to sound.
trying to prove God's existence using science and reason (without appealing to scripture) was Ray Comfort and Kirk's objective, prior to the start of the debate. Then throughout the debate (from opening statements 'til the end) Ray talks about the Ten Commandments and the Gospels.
All anyone needs to know about this guy's argument for a designer is that it's viciously circular. In asserting that the world was purposefully "created," he's presupposed his conclusion that there is a creator.
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
I feel that many people will try to explain that God does exist but to those that can only see earthly things then how can you explian heavenly things. That is what God is heavenly. smile
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Lets be real, the christian has some good points. We were indeed created. Maybe the universe WAS created by a master creator. But praying and all that religion shit thrown into the middle just messes up his own argument. Once he starts talking about faith after that his whole argument goes to shit.
Well noone truly knows where the universe came from. I believe in evolution, i am not a Christian. Although i used to be a one, i only believe that their maybe a god or some type of creator in the way beginning. Before the Big Bang. Before there was time. I believe if we go way way back there has to be something maybe. Maybe thats why i believe MAYBE there is a god that created everything in the beginning of the beginning.
his argument that "everything has a creator" doesnt make sense. He doesnt even believe that because he gets to a point where he has to explain how the first thing was created (God) and he has to violate his "everything has a creator" rule to explain that. A better answer for the existance of God (according to his argument) would be that God created himself, but even that would sound silly. This is what they get for believing fairy tales. stupid people -_-
yes, actually there have been MANY experiments with plants to support evolution. that is one reason (out of many) why evolutionists say that we dont actually need fosils to prove evoulution.
Ketchme17 energy cannot be created nor destroyed, there was god and there was life before god and after god? it all boils down to if you truly believe in god.
How can Ray know so much about how the current human body works, but have ZERO knowledge of how the body came to be? He cites the eyes and ears, and nervous system, but he appears to have no knowledge of how these things evolved and how and WHY these parts differ on other species. Our eye is amazing yes.... but have you seen a cats eye? SO much better! Did God skimp on our design?
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The Christians who read the bible did not have conscience, hanged Black people.l Lynched them.. ethnicallu cleansed American Indians, committed the holocaust and continie to ethnically cleanse in Rwanda.
Citabria007 2 months ago
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Ray comfort just proved the existence of Lord Krishna, Vishnu and Allah!
Citabria007 2 months ago
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The creator is Lord Brahma!
Citabria007 2 months ago
Ray comfort is saying that because of the shit we have here was created by designing humans, therefore space and the universe has to have a human like designer.
Josh04731 2 months ago
Wow, this guy spends a lot of time on the simplest and most easily contradicted excuse for god- The watchmaker excuse...
You know the building was build and the painting was painted because you saw or read of painters,builders,architects,tractors etc.
If you found fairy dust lying in the street, then this excuse would be in order.
avrahams1 4 months ago
To Ray Comfort:
The conscience is the result of thousands of years of social evolution, with mortal man deciding for themselves, and from themselves, that which is acceptable actions in a self-governing society.
DarthBismarck 7 months ago
You deny the existence of 30m Hindu gods, Shaman gods, Greek/Roman gods, African Spirit gods, Scandinavian gods, Mesopotamian gods except YHWH. You are as Atheistic as I denying the existence of so many gods. I only deny one more, YOURS.
amoralis123 7 months ago
The painter had materials, where did God get these materials from?
Poof magic.....
batistaker123 7 months ago
This would mean God would require a designer
batistaker123 7 months ago
God damn it Jesus Fucking Christ, see you in hell
pokerguy94 7 months ago
Christians are so sure that their god exists for some reason, but what about the thousands of the other gods that people have worshiped?
pokerguy94 7 months ago
Comfort has a steel collar around the reasoning center of his brain, which restricts his thinking to an extremely narrow focus, to the total ignorance of all else. It is the perfect embodiment of "Don't confuse me with facts!" Why anyone over the age of 9 could ever take this street performer seriously is a serious question for our country at this time.
sliderossian 8 months ago
Albert Einstein was an atheist...
itirnitii 8 months ago
@itirnitii Yes later on he stated he doesn't believe in a personal God.
batistaker123 7 months ago
if we are so great how come we weren't "Created" with eyes in the back of our heads?
LurchibaldBioshock 8 months ago
Ray, you failed at proving the existence of god. All you proved was the existence of buildings, paintings, and cars. With buildings, paintings and cars we have evidence that shows without a shadow of a doubt that these things were built by humans. I can watch my child draw a painting and build a Lego tower.
I can't watch your god do ANYTHING. Why? Because he doesn't exist! And you failed to provide proof that he does!
BastEternal 8 months ago
HA! He mentions how AMAZING the human body is, but he fails to mention the faults, such as ONE breathing tube for breathing and eating (can we say CHOKE?) - or an appendix that can explode at any time (what's the appendix good for anyway?).
BastEternal 8 months ago
Ray, there's so much more to it than having "eyes that can see and a brain that works."
Even animals have eyes that can see and a brain that works. I bet mr comfort would LOVE for everyone to be like the animals, hunting down jesus just like animals hunt down their evening meal.
BastEternal 8 months ago
You're a moron, Ray. We already have evidence as to how a coca-cola can was INVENTED. What we don't have is evidence that a god exists. You FAIL on so many levels.
No, the painting is not OBSERVABLE proof that there was a painter. Observable proof of a painting having a painter is watching someone paint a picture.
Same as a building. If we didn't have evidence that humans have the ability to build, then scientists would be scratching their heads as to what this tall THING is.
BastEternal 8 months ago
He offers a building and the mona lisa as proof god exists? lol
A kid can build a lego tower. Elephants and monkeys can paint. Does that mean god exists? Ray's logic is so freaking flawed is not even funny.
The reason why a scientist can conclude that a painting must have had a painter is because people have made paintings before. Even children can paint.
I wonder what example ray would use if human beings didn't have the ability to paint or to build?
BastEternal 8 months ago
most specious argument ever
gunfiremessiah 9 months ago
too much stupid, I'm not watching the rest :)
PravNJ 9 months ago
I like how my belief is being question. and mocked by christians.
Answer this question religious people. "what is the purpose of god?" you might say its to guide us, but why make the whole cycle? is it possible that sheer boredom (of course it is, only hypocrit would deny).
MaxBlight 10 months ago
Holy flawed logic batman(who by the way is exactly as real as god, as in not)
MrFamine69 11 months ago
How the fuck can you compare a painting or a Coca Cola can to the fucking universe? Mr. Comfort believes he is making a point, but in reality, he is not my friends.
pillsburydude 1 year ago
To use the same logic, if there HAS to be a God due to the earths harmony, how an ear works, etc. then the same should apply to God. Where did HE come from? Huh?....What's that you say? God has always been? Well then why can't this apply to the universe? I find abiogenesis more likely than an invisible, all knowing, all powerful, man in the sky that's never been seen or heard.
Adrianrosariopr 1 year ago
MY NAME IS RAY COMFORT AND I'M A BIOCHEMIT! DEEERRRRP! I DON'T KNOW WHAT SCIENCE MEANS!
blehblehbleh86 1 year ago 3
"The idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I am unable to take seriously." (Albert Einstein, Letter to Hoffman and Dukas, 1946)
"A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
(Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930)
Saskuash420 1 year ago 6
2:15 Wonk, thank you for participating
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. " Albert Einstein 1945
Saskuash420 1 year ago
kirk: have you used god's name in vain?
me: god damnit! all the time!
72dew 1 year ago
GAHHHH!!!
I've seen the argument before (with bridges), but saying "this building is obviously built" is about, the worst, argument for intelligent design. The builder, barring cancer and car accidents, is still alive. A little searching and I can see, touch, hear, hell, I could taste him if I wanted. A document was written about him and his plan to build the building, we'll call it a blueprint. Written while he was alive, by a man that is still alive, fact checked, and also, coherent.
whybag 1 year ago
Ray could have summed up his position in one sentence: "God did it because humans make stuff".
jazz4 1 year ago
almost everything he says draws upon faith, the conscience is not evidence that it is god given. only things that could point towards it - which is definately not scientific
darkeh4321 1 year ago
But Ray...then who made the "Coca-Cola Company"? He is only pushing the question back further and doesn't explain who made God? Because according to his logic nothing can be created out of nothing right!? (something he accuses the big-bang theory to be saying, which btw is a false accusation) At least scientists try to find answers, based on empirical data, to questions that we do not yet know the answer to! Then he stops "arguing" and begins preaching...
NoCode779 1 year ago
The first guy, with a mustache had to go to WIKIPEDIA to start his statement. hust PATHETIC.
nandesneto 1 year ago
ray comfort and his analigus galpal kirk support child rape, infanticide, segregation, racism, misogyny, war, lying and they are treasonous members of my species. If there is a hell these corrupt nastly black inside awful people will spend some time there
699backstab 1 year ago
Sorry 'bout several posts, not used to this new youtube interface.
nnavakas 1 year ago
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Good point about lying making you a liar. Has he ever made love? Because it seems to me, that somewhere near a climax you stop making love, you turn to just plain f***ng. So, if you have ever made love, that makes you a f***er. Gee, unfallable logic.
nnavakas 1 year ago
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Good point about lying making you a liar. Has he ever made love? Because it seems to me, that somewhere near a climax you stop making love, you turn to just plain f***ng. So, if you have ever made love, that makes you a f***er. Gee, unfallable logic.
nnavakas 1 year ago
Good point about lying making you a liar. Has he ever made love? Because it seems to me, that somewhere near a climax you stop making love, you turn to just plain f***ng. So, if you have ever made love, that makes you a f***er. Gee, unfallable logic.
nnavakas 1 year ago
This discussion smells like bananas. Ray and Kirk suffer so much trying to convince themselves of their beliefs and they keep reinforcing their belief that's built like a house of cards that'll collapse with the slightest poke from atheists.
ebrak47 1 year ago
these atheists didn't really present their arguments well...compared to other..but then again it's hard to compare to dawkins, hitchens, dennet, and the lead head, Harris.
and2premiere 1 year ago
Man made products, like a can of cola doesn't reproduce itself, nature does. Bad analogy mr Banana. . .
armelix73 1 year ago
This is actually funny
rulebrittaniaPTBB 1 year ago
He should have talked about the banana in front of them and seen how many people would laugh at him.
mefondlevagina 1 year ago
These 2 guys are such camera whores!
franczazou 1 year ago 2
The reason man hasn't developed a camera anywhere near as advanced as the human eye is because we haven't developed cameras for millions and millions of years. We've done it for almost 200 years, and look how far we've come!
Pinkaugust 1 year ago
hahaha is very amusing. Philosophically shallow fundamentalists vs. philosophically shallow fundamentalists...
Gundo420hunley 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i think its funny how even though Atheist do not believe, they still comment and search for these videos. they even ask questions on the video but not questions with actual interest but rather to mock the religion other people have chosen. Ive found that 85% of Atheist would rather mock Christianity then actually avoid it. if i didn't believe in something i wouldn't hang around it. i guess some people are on a less mature level.
stonesour3366 2 years ago
I know isn't it ridiculous how people want to see other opinions and variations of opinions? What idiots, they should just read one book to get all their opinions!
holyjesus 1 year ago 33
@holyjesus because one book can't summarize all the knowledge of the world. Will you reject every single textbook or well documented report just because it is not the bible? If you want knowledge to be simple, you should try to live your life based on "The Cat in the Hat".
mefondlevagina 1 year ago
@mefondlevagina Vagina.
holyjesus 1 year ago
@holyjesus hell ya, I love vaginas.
mefondlevagina 1 year ago
@mefondlevagina
My dog bites my vagina, when I'm walking, and he sees other dog.
holyjesus 11 months ago
@holyjesus VAGINA!
LurchibaldBioshock 8 months ago
@holyjesus how can any adult still take the bible seriously on any level?
SlayerofFiction 11 months ago
first of all id like to know where the 85% comes from.
creationists dont believe in evolution, yet they always look for some reason why it cant be true etc. so they hang around it. according to u thats immature.
republicans do not believe in the merit of public health care, yet they hang around it by asking questions etc. immature?
it seems u are confusing 'ignoring a debate' with maturity.
heres another reason why ur wrong: you seem to be a devout christian. so u dont believe in this whole
GuerNuclaire 1 year ago
Comment removed
GuerNuclaire 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
god does not exist thing. yet you hand around it by watching a debate about it and comment on it. and u mock the other side, which you dislike about atheists when they do that to you. hence, you do exactly what u deem immature and claim u dont do it, which, according to u, proves ur maturity. that my friend is a logical fallacy.
so heres ur choice: ur a hypocrite or an idiot. what will it be?
GuerNuclaire 1 year ago
@GuerNuclaire you're mixing my words up, you understand what im saying but are trying to twist them in a way to cause an argument. because of this i will not go into an argument with you. you have you're opinions i have mine. you have you're beliefs i have mine. for the immature thing i was implying that it is immature for them to come to videos to just mock another persons belief. which indeed it is.
stonesour3366 1 year ago
@stonesour3366 Where did you get the statistic, "85% of Atheist would rather mock Christianity then actually avoid it?" As far as mocking relgion, I do not. I want you to be ever ready to provide EVIDENCE for the faith that you have.
hanzdogy 1 year ago
@hanzdogy its a statistic i have gathered in the last 2 years.
stonesour3366 1 year ago
@stonesour3366 I wanted to ask you that very same question. Good to know you're thorough.
censortube09 1 year ago
@stonesour3366 less ignorant. definitely not less mature
fatphillmargera 1 year ago
Biblebasher are the most ignorant, self-righteous bunch of baboons on this planet. The rest does not believe in their God. Atheism is not a religion, nor is Evolution. Darwin related his observation. Vince Sarich showed genetic commonality of living organism. Miller's experiment proved only one thing: conversion of inorganic to organic. Bb are simpletons, want simple solutions to complex problems. Celestial Mechanics cannot be explained to simpletons. Such shows are for morons.
amoralis123 10 months ago
@stonesour3366 its funny how atheists usually tend to say, "i dont give a shit what people believe. I don't look down on other people's beliefs." maybe the atheists on this page aren't those atheists
my point is to everybody, nobody is going to change anybody's mind, people gotta change their own minds, so dont worry about others' lives and beliefs, so stop worrying about whether or not somebody bases their life on a book, and stop mocking it
btw, im not christian, or atheist
robertbutler714 10 months ago
@robertbutler714
The problem is the more extreme theists are stomping on people's rights and are trying to destroy logical thought.
NUTCASE71733 9 months ago
"RRS vs Banana Design Squad", lol, perfect name for the debate
watergaia 2 years ago 2
Classic stupid christian argument. Even if you "proove" you have to have a creator... you're GUESSING that creator if your christian God, but it could have been yet another being that created the Universe, and God is simply the creation of man's mind. Simply as that.
Most christian argument fail, because you can't go from "A" to "therefor, there's a God". You're assuming that because A exists, God must exist. That's not proof.
Christians fail.
samus88 2 years ago
Coke cans aren't alive! That means they don't reproduce inherited characteristics with minute changes that get tested for survivability.
And THAT'S why we know there's a Coke can creator.
Life isn't subject to that logic. What a STUPID claim Ray! Same for the painting. You can't compare non-life to life in this way. If this isn't obvious to you you need to go back to school.
On the bright side I find these two class clowns hilarious so it's not all bad I suppose.
warren52nz 2 years ago 3
according to the bible...RAPE and SLAVERY are ok...Where are the 10th and 11th commandments saying that we shouldnt rape or inslave people!....no where...then, christians, how do we know that raping and slavery is wrong?
Oh yeah cuase its INATE in us...non atheist are unintelligent
pawndominance1 2 years ago
The stupidity that Ray, Kirk and whoever pseudo scientists are showing is the perfect example of natural selection.
lostinxlation 2 years ago
Ray Comfort needs a brain that works.
nocturnezero 2 years ago 5
in all fairness ray said a brain that works, he didn't say how well it has to work.
sschoenh 2 years ago
Who/what created God then?
spiderwebb33 2 years ago
Ray Comfort is a talentless tragedy who never made any money or achieved anything significant in his life until he discovered the lucrative business of evangelism in the US. He's a charlatan who stirs debate knowing that regardless of how facile or disingenuous his arguments are, he will get more PR, TV appearances and publicity for his books.
TerryYaki2 2 years ago 2
OOohhhhh my god!!! it's so painful to listen to him. BLAH BLAH someone made this so there is a creator.
TheRedSwitch 2 years ago
Why, Ray, did 'God' short-change animals? If 'God' did so purposely, wasn't that a bit cruel? Dope. You're haven't a clue, and your religion is bogus.
bartonim 2 years ago
"Blessed be those who believe withot seeing"
StaulkHolm 2 years ago
foolish are those who believe WITHOUT seeing, and post without spell checking
89449 2 years ago
ha ha sorry about the spelling.
StaulkHolm 2 years ago
Let us say I believe that Mao was the Messiah. I did not see him walk on water, but I believe this without seeing. Am I blessed?
nocturnezero 2 years ago 3
well lets look at a gun. it fits perfectly into my hand. fires lets say, 15 rounds per clip. and is designed TO KILL. the gun is too complex for me to explain, but someone must have made it; God. BUT WAIT!!! God said Tho shalt not kill... so why would he make this mechanical devise for killing, sometimes protecting, people? i guess god didnt make it because that contradicts god and god is infallible so he cant contradict himself... so that means...
StaulkHolm 2 years ago
2:10 does anyone know the types of propaganda? im 95% sure they are Loaded words(porvoke reaction), testimonial (i endorse 'x' or this person said 'y'), and i forget the rest. what does this seem like to you? why do these peoples opinion matter to me?
StaulkHolm 2 years ago
Did Ray say Biochemitry??
sypher113 2 years ago
I think he did.
sypher113 2 years ago
The human eye is an amazingly inticate organ as Comfort suggests. It is bewildering that Comfort would purport such insult to something that is the proven result of evolution. A study from Current Biology recently revealed a previously unrecognised link between certain components of sophisticated vertebrate eyes, like those in humans, and those of the primitive light-sensing systems of invertebrates.
There's a funny correlation between scientific discovery and the implausibility of creationism.
PlatoMachiavelliMarx 2 years ago 2
It is interesting how creationists use man's technological creations to parallel those of a supposed "God." The fact is they are not parallel. Comfort is illogical and debates like many other creationists by distorting the truth for their own agenda. It is unfortunate that this occurs, for the only interest science has is to form understanding for the betterment of man.
PlatoMachiavelliMarx 2 years ago 3
lieing is not in built knowledge it is taught
Belramous1 2 years ago
yea the human body is so perfect... but wait.. what about the gall bladder? and wisdom teeth?
89449 2 years ago
and anemia, hypertension, genetic disorders
daftpunkrulerfan1 2 years ago
well i was pointing out vestigial organs that we were all born with, not disease or disorders
89449 2 years ago
God painted the Mona Lisa! It's all clear!!!
squarerabbits 2 years ago
This person is proving absolutely nothing. He claims that he has scientific proof but as I'm listening to him I'm realizing that's pure rubbish. If he conceives a child who is born handicapped, I wonder what he will say about his perfect creator.
iamboy1234 2 years ago
Hahah, he drops the names of all these different fields of science, as if he has "evidence" from those fields. But instead he pulls out a coke can and blabbers about how it can't come about by accident. I'd love to hear his "proofs" from his vast knowledge of those fields of science.
BillKiernan 2 years ago 3
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BillKiernan 2 years ago
This idea has plagued the world because now all i hear is there must be a creator. No proof needed just there must be a creator. Thank you Kirk and Ray for destroying the brain of christians. I don't blame christians i just blame stupidity on the leaders of the mainstream christian theology
Idontknowwhat2type 2 years ago
My brain hurts from all the stupid
Zuitman 2 years ago 38
@Zuitman that you are i feel you man i will be praying for you!
bossoftheblock 9 months ago
What made god? When it comes down to it both sides need some amount of faith to believe,
Both Creationism and the Big Bang.. When you know this you must ask yourself which is the most logical.
"We don't know what made god, it's all a part of gods grand complexity man, we just don't know!"
And then there are the infinite number of super intelligent scientists giving an exact description of how everything got here.
Well... Maybe IDC and'd rather through in with the Theists?
Pascals wager is flawe
pokeshmon 5 months ago
Comment removed
KvsS03 2 years ago
oh, wait, don't humans choke and die? Some creator that would give us a dead trap.
keiths81ca 2 years ago
LOL
Jesus said...
Lekeeon 2 years ago
Ray has a pretty imaginary definition of evidence.
moesh 2 years ago 3
why do they even bother to argue with ray and kirk. it's just crazy.
FunBoy15 2 years ago 2
This man is clearly metally retardet.
Laudrengen 2 years ago
he didnt prove anything... all he did was get up and quote scripture ! wtf is this load of bunk hes trying to pass off as "debate"
Kanvass1 2 years ago 3
"i BELIEVE gods existence can be proven absolutely scientifically without even mentioning faith!"
hahahaha he believes?????
bennilasvegas 2 years ago 13
I lol'd :P
Laudrengen 2 years ago
Ray doesn't even understand the principles he argues with. Pathetic.
You don't need faith to believe in painters or builders, as you can see with your eyes that there are painters and builders. You have physical proof of their existence.
He didn't actually supply ANY evidence. Just because HE can't envisage a universe without a maker, doesn't make the existence of the universe proof that there is one.
His 'proof' is that the creator exists because the universe is complex.
auspolk 2 years ago 4
he mentioned entropy and all that just to make himself seem more knowledgeable. when in reality, he doesn't know shit.
RaunchyApple 2 years ago 4
lulz at jesus
pubfun 2 years ago
1 out of 2 isnt bad, Ray.
canuckman87 2 years ago
"eyes that can see, and a brain that works" lol
redbloof 2 years ago
haha.... christians always using simple metaphors to describes complex concepts... the builder/watchmaker/painter argument is completely flawed. To understand this look at belaires comments below
MrChayeah 2 years ago
Scientificus? I'm pretty sure the word "scientific" is derived from the English word "science" which is derived from the Latin word "scire" which means "to know."
Handyandy58 2 years ago
who created god? ''jejeje'' you delusional fuck case.
canuckman87 2 years ago
It is lucky that Ray is not a lawyer because he would never get a job .. except when the police frame someone and need a defence lawyer guaranteed to get the accused the death penalty.
backthisway 2 years ago 3
As far as the builder teleological argument. Besides the obvious issues, its not just that we have a building (premise A) that shows there was a builder (conclusion). Its that we have seen builders (premise B) that lead us to this fact. If I had never known of builders, to say this building in front of me was built by a builder, would be scientifically empty.
belaires 2 years ago
Premise C would be that all buildings need builders (and intelligent ones), which is itself an assumption unless proven, and would answer the conclusion already, making the argument circular i.e. illogical). But even if we had A, B, and C for the explanation of the universe, it still wouldn't be logical to then assume the conclusion. It has never been a good argument.
belaires 2 years ago
So we are to believe a book, that was written by goat herders, 2000 years ago. Instead of 150 years of scientists studying facts,the 1000's of bones, and what is in the real world.
LuciferTheEvilOne 2 years ago
Wow. So many things are wrong with this man's argument.
1. The Big Bang was not an explosion in space. It wasn't even an explosion. It was the expansion of spacetime and the creation of energy and matter.
2. Life didn't evolve from a pool of mud. There are many different theories concerning the origin of life.
3. A painting, car, and soda can must have a creator, but the same cannot be said for the universe. Quantum physics contains, to put it bluntly, the freakiest shit you will ever know.
TheGenesisTheExodus 2 years ago 3
4. The scientific method cannot be used to prove this type of question.
5. Evolution can explain these features of the human body while fitting with the laws of physics.
6. Calling us arrogant and unreasonable is simply using ad hominem attacks.
7. The concscience is an evolutionary tool that allows us to benefit our pack.
8. The conscience is very biased.
TheGenesisTheExodus 2 years ago 3
3. The building blocks of all matter and existence - quarks and other elementary particles - can be examined to pop in and out of existence. On top of that, they can be logically inferred to both exist and not exist AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME when not observed. It's crazy, crazy stuff when you get into it, and Creationists don't realize that the nature of the universe and its origins do not follow the physical constants that we see in place today, much like Quantum Physics.
nocturnezero 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
no wonder why the bible call " fools" those who don't believe, you have to be a fool ( stupid) not to believe in a creator, but ofcourse atheist come from a monkey, so where did the monkeys come from, jejejeje. evidence??? get a mirror!
lucyken 2 years ago
Did you by chance fail biology at school? Or even better, have any basic understanding about how evolution works?
A few questions:
Who created your creator?
What tells you the bible is true, or even written by god?
Taking unproofable metaphysical issues to earthly grounds comparing a painter that painted the painting is a pretty dumb argument. Untill you can conclusively proof you have seen god, it's quite naive to believe in such a thing. God is a bookmarker, untill science finds out :).
hellhammerz666 2 years ago
I hope to your non-existent God that you aren't serious...
CrazyToastie 2 years ago 3
yeah for see you i believe that the monkeys can be transformed in humans
:)
wololos 2 years ago
"All I need is eyes that can see and a brain that works"
- Ray Comfort
One out of two isn't bad.
Skindoggiedog 2 years ago 6
Excellent... lol
DontLoseTheLesson 2 years ago
Are there any Christians out there watching this who agree with Mr. Comfort? I'd like to talk to you.
KevinLounsberry 2 years ago
lmao, we don't have a wind shield. we NEED a wind shield
KevinLounsberry 2 years ago
*sigh*
KevinLounsberry 2 years ago
let me ask you this. Do your believe in gravity? Do you believe in matter? Do you believe in oxygen?
If there were no gravity our solar system would collapse and we would not be able to maintain life on earth. Matter is said to be a form of energy that can not be created or destroyed. You call these apostles hypocrites but yet many people believe that matter exist. Just as God has no creator he clearly shows his works, through his creations and his people.
sfckinglop 2 years ago
but to say you believe in jesus christ, is to reject the theory of evolution and all that paleontologists have had to offer.
a vast majory of scientists have come to the conclusion that dinosaurs have been extinct for at least 65 million years. yet the creationist christians believe that earth is only 6000 years old. the gap from 65 million to 6000 is so huge, scientists fro mall around the world would have to be by so many years.
the bible is simply myth and legend
brysonisSXE 2 years ago
I got this question for you all can something come from nothing?
stanekke 2 years ago
Stanekke, the answer to your question is no. Something can't come from nothing. Scientists have never said that the universe came from nothing. What they have said is that we don't yet know what the universe came from. It is Christians that have said that god has always existed, therefore he must have come from nothing.
Jonnarra 2 years ago
ask the creationists. they say that there was nothing one day, and boom earth exists
brysonisSXE 2 years ago
we were created... by evolution
gj ray (rolls eyes)
loltothewall 2 years ago
Bashir is a tool.
canuckman87 2 years ago
2:25 Hypocrite much?
InsaneWombat 2 years ago
wow 20 sec. into the debate and he busts out the coke can.
InsaneWombat 2 years ago 2
Just listening to Ray Comfort is making me stupid.
He has the mind of an eight year old.
whyshouldI303 2 years ago 3
The thing ray comfort has to acknowledge is that no atheist thinks we were created, he thinks we were created without a creator, which of course even ray comfort knows that if something has been CREATED, it must have a CREATOR. Now, if atheists believe there is no creator (we've already arrived at that state of mind), then logically, we were not created, and furthermore, if we never thought we were created through intelligent design, theres no reason for us to praise a god, let alone believe it.
nathanomgnathan 2 years ago
I think what he says about einstein is very misleading, eistein reitterated time and time again that he was agnostic. Actually, fuck it, it's all misleading. If he's ever read a text book in his life, then he's a liar. Just wishing something so doesn't make it so I'm afraid.
andywaggott 2 years ago
i know ray comfort is the most hameless quote miner this world has ever seen. Its as if ray comfort works in the ministry of truth from 1984, where his job is to take truth, and either destroy any record of it, or contort it to make it the way he wants it to sound.
nathanomgnathan 2 years ago
trying to prove God's existence using science and reason (without appealing to scripture) was Ray Comfort and Kirk's objective, prior to the start of the debate. Then throughout the debate (from opening statements 'til the end) Ray talks about the Ten Commandments and the Gospels.
Epic Fail.
gmn545 2 years ago
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E
nathanomgnathan 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All anyone needs to know about this guy's argument for a designer is that it's viciously circular. In asserting that the world was purposefully "created," he's presupposed his conclusion that there is a creator.
AkrasiaWiz 2 years ago
Comment removed
AkrasiaWiz 2 years ago
Bad news for Kirk and this other clown:
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)
dlhitch2007 2 years ago 3
Fuck you Ray, you're full of shit.
luptoneous 2 years ago 5
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
Albert Einstein
gjsterp 2 years ago 2
I feel that many people will try to explain that God does exist but to those that can only see earthly things then how can you explian heavenly things. That is what God is heavenly. smile
netengeargirly2k 2 years ago
Your definition of "heavenly" seems to coincide nicely with my definition of "fictitious". Well done.
rohanwotan2 2 years ago
Ray Comfort is such a dumbass.
geno2k3 2 years ago
That Coca-Cola analogy was plain retarded, and it embarassed me here.
SirianKings 2 years ago
those 2 wotm idiots dont have a clue lol
its fun rewatching them make fools of themselves
AtheistAtLARGE 2 years ago
Good job man, You are great
If we are like Christ, some will not like us
tigergirl401 2 years ago
I. am. shaking my head. in disappointment. that there is such naive and stupid people on this earth.
SATlVA 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lets be real, the christian has some good points. We were indeed created. Maybe the universe WAS created by a master creator. But praying and all that religion shit thrown into the middle just messes up his own argument. Once he starts talking about faith after that his whole argument goes to shit.
geno2k3 2 years ago
"the christian has some good points" you owe me a keyboard cause I spit beer all over it.
holyjesus 2 years ago
Well noone truly knows where the universe came from. I believe in evolution, i am not a Christian. Although i used to be a one, i only believe that their maybe a god or some type of creator in the way beginning. Before the Big Bang. Before there was time. I believe if we go way way back there has to be something maybe. Maybe thats why i believe MAYBE there is a god that created everything in the beginning of the beginning.
geno2k3 2 years ago
read some string theory, it will help you.
esk89ld 2 years ago
his argument that "everything has a creator" doesnt make sense. He doesnt even believe that because he gets to a point where he has to explain how the first thing was created (God) and he has to violate his "everything has a creator" rule to explain that. A better answer for the existance of God (according to his argument) would be that God created himself, but even that would sound silly. This is what they get for believing fairy tales. stupid people -_-
esk89ld 2 years ago
the Bible has roughly 400 distinct commandments.. genius
charr05 2 years ago
Just a question out of curiosity does evolution say anything about plants how they got here?
stanekke 2 years ago
yes it does... it talks about plants, and all things, evolving simultaneously throughout the history of the universe.
charr05 2 years ago
yes, actually there have been MANY experiments with plants to support evolution. that is one reason (out of many) why evolutionists say that we dont actually need fosils to prove evoulution.
esk89ld 2 years ago
Ketchme17 energy cannot be created nor destroyed, there was god and there was life before god and after god? it all boils down to if you truly believe in god.
foundoutthat 2 years ago
blindreaper21 you dumbass the can had to be onstructed by something, machine,
The can like elemtents did not just poof in the air, before the big bang there was nothing, how is that?
elements just poofed?
foundoutthat 2 years ago
How can Ray know so much about how the current human body works, but have ZERO knowledge of how the body came to be? He cites the eyes and ears, and nervous system, but he appears to have no knowledge of how these things evolved and how and WHY these parts differ on other species. Our eye is amazing yes.... but have you seen a cats eye? SO much better! Did God skimp on our design?
MagnumDB 2 years ago
Its when a chick chemistry does a dude AND a chick chemistry.
holyjesus 2 years ago
What is Bio Chemitry? I have never heard of this subject before.
CoAvsPepseat 2 years ago
That first guy's argument was probably the WORST argument for the existence of God I've ever heard.
samdrophy 2 years ago