Infinity training on how to listen to speakers

[ssj2Nesa]

Where do i find this program?

[hyperconnected08]

@ssj2Nesa seanolive.blogspot.com

[slingo68]

isn't the biggest problem with speakers, the room they are placed in ?

[hyperconnected08]

@slingo68 it is one of the bigger issues, but if you start off with a bad speaker and fix the room it is possible that you can only get so far. Within the freq range rooms tend to create issues below say 300hz, above that the speaker has more to do with bad sound, so one needs to address both

[GranteedEV]

@slingo68 rooms are a problem, but superior speakers have a uniform radiation of sound in all directions so that reflections mimic the listening window response, leading to low room-treatment-sensitivitiy. Below 400hz or so where the room modes begin to occur is a bit different. Presumably cardioid speakers would be less sensitive to room problems than omni

[musicsceneniagara]

Dr. Toole honed his talent at Canada's National Research Council. Arguably the best association any loudspeaker manufacturer can have.

[BrickVanderhuge]

I wish they'd bring back the EMIT tweeters.

[theprof291166]

Its good to have a critical ear - but if comes at the detriment of enjoyment. If all you hear are inperfections, it drives you crazy. Better not be too critical, or no speaker will ever make you happy.

[BUBLOOGABLOO]

wow. I'm impressed.

[carnatu666]

this video is pure marketing

[stewartx5]

Not nearly as impressed with Infinity speakers today. Listened to a good many speakers (all brands) while employed years ago by a company representing Infinity in Europe and selected a pair of Infinity Column II speakers because the bass generated by those paper cone woofers was simply fantastic. In my opinion, the plastics in the newer speakers never matched the sheer smoothness of the older speakers.

[hyperconnected08]

how many years ago, Infinity has been using CMMD and MMD for over 6 years no poly currently in the lineup. Big woofer speakers like the ones you have are awesome, but kind of out of step in the US market...giving way to sub/sat or narrow towers and subwoofer configs

[stewartx5]

hyperconnected08 > ".. how many years ago .."

A number of years. Haven't paid much attention to Infinity recently. Did listen to several about three years ago (at local store) and was still not impressed. By the way, I'm an American living and working in Germany, arriving this time about four years ago (after nine years in USA). Prior to that was Italy following a previous number of years in the USA. Before that was Germany & Sound Marketing (company marketing Infinity).

[frost122585]

@stewartx5 I totally agree. The old ones had more edge and that gave it a more refined definition- at least it seemed to me.

[johammbass]

Dumbasses, today there are instrumnents to evaluate the sound quality of a speaker. Fucking idiots.

[Mikexception]

@johammbass Not at all. If you would experience as much audio experiments as me you woudn't say that. The truth is that instrument can evaluate the sound parameters but can't judge it  in athe way human ear and brain does. Usually instruments give us visual answer which is usless in much complicated home environment. That's my experience. Is anybody who valuate the visual frequency charactristic as final judge?

[Maxzoe20]

It's an excellent way to judge sound quality as listeners tend to hear what they see.

When Stereophile did a head to head comparison of the NS-1000M vs their best speakers some of the listeners thought it sounded like metal. What was interesting was that it was actually the soft dome speaker next to the NS-1000M that was active and when they were switched to NS-1000M but were not told this, the "metal sound went away" and much improved. The NS-1000M is the victim of some of the worst hate bias

[Mikexception]

@Maxzoe20 Yes, thing is that listeners should see what they hear - not opposite. They should be moved not by what they hear but why they do not see.

[g0fvt]

This is undoubtedly a complex subject, sadly few hifi dealers have good listening facilities these days. Though I do remember a local one that had "auditioning sessions" late in the evening once a week. It was good to sit and listen for a prolonged period to competing products, however some that I found to sound "impressive" got kind of tiring after a while.

[edpadden]

Yes, Bose is a marketing company. They have a real nice midrange that appeal to your ears but everything else is lacking. No highs, no lows? Must be Bose!!!

[sierrxhadlin]

Martin Logan and B&W are the new Bose. Even the designer of Martin Logans speakers left because they had more interest in making them appealing immediately to increase sales, rather then making them sound good in the long run. B&W "low distortion" claims with contradicting results.

[MrByronwilson]

somebody please tell me how someone can tell someone else what good sound is? every one's taste is not the same. meaning i may love r&b you may love classical.

[hyperconnected08]

You make a good point. The only thing is that what you are suggesting is that one might like one form of music vs another and that is true. How a speaker delivers the sound into the room is what they refer to, that is based in science. Thus when the artist approves a mix, Infinity's goal is to deliver that expereince to you...untouched so to speak. Thus "good sound" is defined by how close they come to doing just that.

[Blayros]

@hyperconnected08 and then you got your customer ruining that by utilizing his EQ..... this "Science" is in all due respect BS as one speaker for one room can sound shit in another room and the listeners preferences in EQ, Room and setup can perfect or ruin the purpose of any speaker design!

One advice! use your ears!

[hyperconnected08]

@Blayros you are correct one speaker will sound differenct in differnt rooms, and set up can do that as well. The science is not BS, lack of consumer knowldge is the industry challenge. How would a consumer know how to set up a room? Some of the research done recently shows some of the EQ systems doing a poor job to the point where the speaker alone yielded better sound. It will forever be a battle preference vs measurement

[Blayros]

@hyperconnected08 but then you can't help people choosing speakers if you're not setting them up in the customers home. listening to speakers and being able to help a customer you'd have to be able to listen to your customer too ;) placement of speakers can make huge differences. listeners wouldn't be able to hear if the certain speaker is placed off the place it's designed for in a "perfect" room. then you wouldn't get the full detail of sound the speaker can deliver. too many factors here!

[transdrole]

@hyperconnected08 'lack of consumer knowldge is the industry challenge' . I would suggest that there are manufacturers that count on consumer ignorance to become successful - like Bose.

[hyperconnected08]

@transdrole Well one might think the sound you get from their products is bad but let's face facts, there is a bit of science too. A boatload of DSP properly applied can make a poor speaker sound good and great speaker sound out of this world good. But they do a good job of identifying market opportunities. when the Jewel Cube came out the avg consumer still used speaker from rack systems, they were not very good at all, and that was the target...big, not so good sounding speakers.

[hyperconnected08]

So they win the war of the living room and deliver better sound than a poor performance taget. Then the long term play is to market to those customers over and over again.

For the industry there really is a circle of confusion happening. The engineer uses speakers to evaluate recorded sound - the consumer uses a speaker to listen. Problem is they are not always using the same technologies or adhere to the same standards. Thus the expereince is diminished from what the artist intended

[transdrole]

@hyperconnected08 'lack of consumer knowldge is the industry challenge' . I would suggest that there are manufacturers that rely on consumer ignorance in order to become successful - like Bose.

[necrodh]

i have a infinity pc speakers and sounds very clear and the sound flys all over the place

[tonmeister86]

Watcher3233: When untrained listeners are given the opportunity to audition different loudspeakers under controlled double-blind conditions, their preferences are remarkably similar to the tastes of the trained listeners.

[tonmeister86]

Infinity actually published this research in the J. Audio Engineering Society. The paper is called Performance and Preference of Trained versus Untrained Listeners in Loudspeaker Tests: A Case Study You can download it for free from the harman web site.

[joeldude76]

we have to infinity speakers but they fell apart so im gonna pay to get them fixed and hook up to my stereo

[sweetsweatyfeet]

The way to listen to a speaker is the same way to listen to music. That's it.

[AYREACOUSTICS]

Heres the problem everyone hears music different, there ears are even shaped different, just moving your ears a little with your fingers changes tone a great deal. Therefore, buid a speaker with a flat response, use Hi qaulity drivers, a good solid box construction for resonace, and good cross overs units, then you will have good quality speaker that make great music reproduction.

[BurningTruth]

Absolutely 100% true. Sound is a love or hate thing and most consumers base their opinions on others words. The best way to pick a product is to audition it for yourself. I try and bring my mp3 player with me and audition other headphones with my music and pick ones that I like. I also do the same for music the key is listening and everyone is different I agree with you

[FREAKQUENCI]

very well commented sounds like you had the very same thorghts i had about this video i tottally agree

[Watcher3223]

The problem I have here with what Infinity does is that they are selecting listeners THEY believe represent what a speaker should sound like. To indicate superiority over others because of this is presumptuous, both subjectively and objectively.

The advantage, however, is that it may help Infinity to produce more tonally consistent products throughout their model lines.

But, whether or not that makes them better than, say, Bowers & Wilkens are still up to the individual tastes of the customer.

[hyperconnected08]

I know from experience and talking to others there is a second set of listners that is comprised of dealers and sales people that take part fo those tests. Your right there are consumer preferences, but what if no one helped the consumer hear what they were missing. I remember years back (old timer story) when a sales person would actually turn products on, there was no push this button display, or speaker line up in an aisle. I guess it depends on a persons first speaker purchase.

[Watcher3223]

Good point about being able to point out what the customer may be missing.

[Watcher3223]

Opinions are always subject to individual tastes. What may sound good to one person may not sound good to another.

For example: one person's idea of good sound is one that is accurate and flat. But, to another, that kind of sound may come off as clinical and harsh and may prefer something that exhibits more "warmth."

There are also people who prefer overemphasized highs or lows or some who don't care about tonality and, instead, concentrate on gimmicks and the irrelevant (Bose listeners).