Ah yes, another person who relies on a translation and claims it to be inerrant instead of doing the homework to see what the GREEK really says. Yeah, your TRANSLATION certainly does teach eternal torment. It is made to uphold traditions created to keep people in line. But God's truth claims that He is triumphant and will bring to pass ALL of His will which He has told us is the redemption of the whole creation. SAVIOR OF THE WORLD! Is your god not triumphant? Mine is.
God declares the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). So let's go to the beginning. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1). When did He create hell? God did not warn Adam and Eve of "eternal damnation" for eating of the tree of good and evil, however, He did say they would die (Genesis 2:17). The penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23). Not hell. Jesus came to redeem not to condemn (John 3:17).
If a majority of the world is going to hell, how is Jesus victorious? Sounds like a victory for Satan. How can I experience peace in Christ if my dead relatives are burning in hell right now? What if the verses that mention everlasting punishment are mistranslated? What if there is no eternal hell? Yes, the bible says repent and few find the narrow gate - how does this go against universal salvation? Why can't both exist?
Brother your interpretion is based on a translation of the Bible not the authentic Bible in which the vast majority of early Christians believed in Universal Salvation. The first claim of eternal damnation entering Christian ideology was about the second century when a Roman Christian stated that he was looking forward to seeing many Roman Magistrates and rulers burning for all eternity. The vast majority of Christians disagreed with his interpretaion and eternal damnation was a latter doctrine
If you combine ignorance to God's word, selfrightouse pride, blind ego, hate towards those who do not agree with you on scripture and spark the engine with a religiouse spirit like this brother on the video has; you get the hell doctrine.
The pharisees taught the doctrine of Eternal torment ... Did you know that? Jesus warned his disciples of the false doctrines of the pharisees. Did you know that there where five catechetical schools of Christianity around the world during the first five centuries of the common era? Did you know that 4 of the six catechetical schools taught universal salvation? Only one taught annihilation, and only one taught eternal damnation.
This is a concept that I found hard to accept also so I understand very much.
remember the scriptures say "EVERY knee shall bow" and "ALL the nations will bow down" and God will be "ALL in ALL" NOT all in some
Titus 1:10 "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, ESPECIALLY they of the circumcision:"
1 Timothy 4:10 "That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and ESPECIALLY of those who believe"
@motibi , that is what those who seek to twist the scriptures do ... They don't, and cant, rely on scholarly criticism concerning the translation of those verses, but instead they just have to lie and say the "especially", or "specially" means only and not most of all or chiefly. Then they blame us for contending the meaning of the words translated in the scriptures as eternal or everlasting etc. ...
Hello SmileLoveForgive, Good luck in your belief that God will torture most of his creation for ever. When you read the bible you have to read it and divide it rightly. Did you know that the book you are holding up and put so much faith in is a copy and a very bad copy of the original scriptures? Gets studying brother before you cone on here telling
I think if the Holy Spirit was to manifest as fire in our local Christian bookshops you would be surprised how few books would be left. They are full of imaginations, not based on the Scriptures at all - just using the Bible.
God Bless you and keep you! Keep speaking the truth bro!
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. (Rev 22:18,19)
OMG!!! WHAT??? ok first of all you need to know the TRUE love of Christ!!! the lake of fire is NOT what you think, HELL is not what you think.....get TRUTH my brother!! you are lost! AND you were praying out of your FLESH!!! wow!!! and this is the GOOD NEWS??? aaahhh no! you like JUDGEMENT better than GRACE!!!! WAKE UP!!!
@SmileLoveForgive Brother, I am so Blessed by the Truth of your warning. You are right. Don't allow these emissaries of satan to baffle you with their rejection of the Truth of God's Word. Jesus is Lord!
@yralm07 So according to your belief, Love only conquers some. Tell me, what is the real purpose for preaching about and underworld called hell? The author of this video cant answer it, so maybe you can.
@SwordofManticorE Absolutely. Because Jesus preached about hell as a warning. Just as Noah preached about the rain that was to fall from the sky; as a warning. Man that is born of a woman is of a few days and is full of troubles. God said, the wages of sin is death. But you say that we can do whatever we what because of the Grace of God. You are sadly mistaken! what shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid.
@SwordofManticorE The Grace that you speak of is what our Lord and Savior did for mankind over 2000 years ago. He died in our place. What our great-grandparents, Adam and Eve, bought onto us all was DEATH, but JESUS made the ultimate sacrifice when he went to the CROSS. Because he died in your place and mine, and rose again, we all have a chance to live also. For GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Learn what the Kingdom of God./Kingdom of Heaven is ( both are the same). Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you..You need to first learn what the Kingdom of God is brother!...It is not here or there, or meat or drink..it is not a 'literal' place..Jesus said that, it is within you...Joy, Love, Peace, Righteousness in the Holy Spirit. That book has some mistranslations..You may not approve this message, but that is fine, do some research to find out about the TRUTH!.
You are sincere, but sincerely wrong. We preach the truth of the Gospel..Jesus is the Savior of ALL MEN and ESPECIALLY of those that believe. We are not twisting the word of God, we are preaching the TRUE Gospel...Learn the meaning of some of the original words in scripture. Hell is not 'eternal torment' it is the grave..Eternal Torment is a pagan myth brought into the Roman Catholic Church, it was never taught or preached in the days of the Early Christians. The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU!!!
@thetwoseeds And to think that love conquer's all? According to mainstream christianity, it doesn't. Last week, I asked this religiouse hypocrite SmileLoveForgive some pretty hard questions about salvation, and I just looked here on comments and he deleted my post. What does that tell you. He shouts and commands on his video, but squirms behind the delete button when over challenged. Remember what I wrote when this post disappears.
are u guys forming a cult? dont believe in hell, dont believe in eternal life, dont believe satan is a fallen angel, believe all people can be saved even if they dont believe in him... u guys are contradicting everything
hell exists...its the grave...heres one for ya...Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
hell exists...its the grave...heres you for ya...Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Universal salvation teaches: [1] God will use the great white throne judgment to beat the unrepentant wicked people into submission for as long as it takes in order to persuade them into believing he loves them. [2] The fiery law of God (lake of fire) can do what the atoning sacrifice of Christ couldn’t do. [2a] The wicked are saved by God’s law not by the blood of Jesus. [3] The wages of sin is major child abuse through God’s fiery law and not the 2nd final death which ends their existence.
Listen my friend, hell does exist but the definition of it is both carnal and unscriptural. You say Jesus will NOT save all men? How not? As in Adam ALL die, EVEN SO, in JESUS will ALL be made ALIVE!!! 1 Cor 15:22.
The Lake of Fire is a place of purification from sin and evil. It is a LAKE of fire, not a prison or dungeon. A LAKE is a place of cleansing and baptism. This is the baptism with fire to cleanse sin. There are no bars on a LAKE to keep anyone in.
The unjust will not see and experience the Kingdom of God (Glorified body) but during the GWT Judgment what will happen? All will confess Christ (Phil 2:11). Whatever the lake of fire symbolizes MUST bring about purification because Christ said, "If i be lifted up WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO MYSELF (John 12:32). Only an idiot would think the furnace of fire is literal and not believe Christ when he said MY WORDS ARE SPIRITUAL (John 6:63). In Psa 12:6 David speaks of a furnace as a purifying agent.
@SmileLoveForgive about that quote, referring to the unrighteous and the unrighteous, the word "eternal" is actually a mistranslation of the word "aionian" which means age-lasting, the opposite of eternal. So the unrighteous will only go into temporary punishment.
Even if you die an atheist, you can go to Heaven!!1 Peter 4: 5-6- “They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
@aaa333ify Where do the Scriptures say an atheist will immediately go to heaven. They will learn righteousness (Isa 26:9), but not until the GWT Judgment. With all respect, don't ever say that again.
The teaching of Hell is a tradition of Man. Most religions have a kind of Heaven and Hell. The Jews believed in no such place. Death was simply death.
Another video to try to decieve the many back into the fear of punishment, instead of the love of God. My brother, you cannot change a heart once it has recieved the truth from the Holy Spirit and set him and her free from harlot doctrins. Your view on God is limited. Either believe that there is a hell, or burn in it. I am grateful that the Lord has set me free from your doctrins of fear. Since I recieved the truth of life, I have an over wealming love for all mankind that I didnt have Before
Another video to try to decieve the many back into the fear of punishment, instead of the love of God. My brother, you cannot change a heart once it has recieved the truth from the Holy Spirit and set him and her free from harlot doctrins. Your view on God is limited. Either believe that there is a hell, or burn in it. I am grateful that the Lord has set me free from your doctrins of fear. Since I recieved the truth of life, I have an over wealming love for all mankind that I didnt have Before.
The Bible as we know it today did not exist when the Epistle to the Ephesians was written. Consequently, the author could not have been talking about the Bible
Jesus is "the Christ, the Savior of the world." (John 4:42)
"This is good and acceptable in the sight of our God our saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (1 Tim. 2:3-6, KJV)
please people. never fear your god. if you fear god, you will walk away from him and you will turn satanist, and that will fill your hearts with betrayal and anger. Never fear God, God only loves you and he wants you to love him, not fear him. The greatest trick that satan(the secret societies, masons/illuminati) pulled on the people, was to corrupt the original teachings of the christ and make people fear god. Search for the secret teachings of christ
What I don't get is that Christians say that the penalty for my sins is eternal torment. But Jesus didn't suffer eternal torment so how can He pay my eternal torment penalty?
If you incur a $1000 traffic fine - someone has to pay right? The authorities don't care who pays as long as they get their money.
If God requires eternal suffering because of your sin debt how come He never gets paid? Not by you, nor by your substitute?
Good question. Well, there you go. Of course, Sin leads to eternal death, BUT -Halleluyah!!! Jesus is God in the flesh, fully God, fully Man. Death could not hold Him, cos He's God - He conquered death, overcame the grave, and has purchased for me, ETERNAL LIFE! isn't it amazing?
Evolutionists say to me - Life just came from nothing all by its self isn't that amazing! I say that just doesn't make sense.
Apparently I owe God an eternity of suffering - No one suffers for an eternity as my substitute but the debt is paid. - I say that just doesn't make sense.
Although it is true that Jesus would HAVE to suffer Eternal Torture in our place, if he really was to save us from our sins,...According to "Mainstream Propaganda", there is NO PLACE in the Original Word of God that tells us that Eternal Torture is the penalty for sin!
The Penalty for sin is DEATH,..not Eternal Torture!!!
But Jesus PAID that price for the WHOLE WORLD and NOT just a Small part of it!
Paid for the price of death? We still die regardless because of the curse. He paid for something other then death because death still exist. He died because we could not obey the moral law represented by the ten commandments, he saved us from the ultimate punishment for breaking them, since death still exist their must be something beyond it he paid for, if he paid for death and it still exist his death was pointless, so "the death" must not been from this death in life, but another life...
Dont underestimate the word of Almighty God. God clearly states that unrepentant sinners will face an eternity in HELL. Face this fact, dear friend, and pray for understanding; otherwise do not preach a HELL-LESS Gospel to people, otherwise their blood will be on your hands. God Bless you.
I would be more concerned about the blood on YOUR hands for blaspheming the character of God and turning unbelievers away from him with your erroneous hell doctrines.
"Everlasting punishment" is an oxymoron. If punishment, which is given to correct wrong behavior, is "everlasting," then it's not punishment, it's torture. So, the correct translation is "age-abiding chastening." Again, you have heard the word of God, and will give account for blaspheming His character with this false doctrine, and you won't be able to use the excuse, "I didn't know."
Well, according to your worldly wisdom punishment is gvien for correction. According to God's wisdom, He punishes unrepentant sinners FOREVER in a burning hell.
It's not according to my "worldy wisdom" that punishment is given for correction. It's according to the bible. When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Isaiah 26:9. Whom the Lord loves, he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: SHALL WE NOT MUCH RATHER BE IN SUBJECTION UNTO THE FATHER OF SPIRITS, AND LIVE? Heb 12:6,9.
He died to save us from DEATH. He didn't die to save us from "eternal hell." Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering od death, that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man[not just SOME men, not just MOST men, but EVERY man]. That's why he died, to save us from death. And because he died, and resurrected, ALL men will be resurrected. For as in Adam, all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. I Cor 15:22
@SmileLoveForgive Aionion doesn't mean everlasting but rather eonian. II Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus 'BEFORE TIMES AIONION [Greek: pro chronon aionion]. Before times eternal is nonsense. The God inspired translation is BEFORE TIMES EONIAN.
@SmileLoveForgive No, YOU are wrong. Death is the cessation of life. There's no such thing as an "eternal hell." God never warned Adam & Eve that they would suffer in an "eternal hell" when he warned them about eating from the tree. If that was the consequence of eating from that tree, then God surely would have told them. Again, death is the cessation of life, period. Your ungodly traditions have led you astray as to what death really is
Romans 5:18 "Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."
That is proof that all men will be saved by the cross. Everyone will be born again, and everyone will be saved. The Lake of Fire is a place of purification from sin. It is a LAKE of fire, not a prison or dungeon of fire! There are no bars on a LAKE!
John 3:16 is always used by people like you to somehow prove that people will go to hell for not believing in Jesus. But what this simply say is that God loves the world, and Jesus died for the sins of the world. This is ANOTHER explanation why he died, TO TAKE AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. John 1:29. Again, no mention of saving anyone from a burning hell. All those who believe will be saved. But we don't believe in Jesus on our own power. God gives us the faith to believe,
Only logical conclusion is by hearing of the Word or encouragement by it, that is the only way faith can be exported because both faith and doubt is a by-product of the human conscience, the heart.
And God will give everyone faith to believe which is why Paul said that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord. And we know that when you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord YOU SHALL BE SAVED> So, salvation will come to everyone because of Christ's death and resurrection. As Adam condemned the whole world unto death, even so, Christ will JUSTIFY the whole world. That's Romans 5:18.
Do you believe the bible? Do you believe that Adam has more power to condem mankind than Christ has to SAVE it? You seem like a very angry person SmileLoveForgive, and sometimes I laugh when I see your clips and how angry you are, and why you chose the nickname you have. You don't have the love of Christ in you. You have a spirit of condemnation and opposition to God's plan to save all. I wish you were able to see it, but you obviously cannot. Pray that God will open your eyes
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have ALL men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Tim 2:3,4
"Do you believe a place of torment currently exists which hold departed human spirits?"
No, and the scriptures don't speak of "human spirits" existing anywhere. At death, our bodies-that is, our fleshly exterior-returns to the ground, and the spirit-or literally, the "breath" that God breathed into us that made us a living soul(Gen 2:7) , returns to the God who gave it. (Gen 3:19;Psalm 104:29;Ecc 12:7). We are not "immortal spirits." Only GOD has immortality(1 Tim 6:16)
But before you bring it on, let me reply to your assertion that I "add my own interpretation to passages." Let's review 1 Tim 2:3,4
1."For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour." I interpret this to mean, "this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior."
2. "Who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." I interpret this to mean, "Who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth."
Thanks for ur reply. Now, think of this. If human spirits cannot exist outside of the body, why is there a hebrew word in the bible for human spirits that are outside of the body?
The hebrew word for this is RAPHA and it means "a departed or disembodied spirit".
How can a spirit not exist outside the body when the bible has a very word to describe this?
This proves that you have failed to interpret those passages correctly.
Want to go into the meaning of the word RAPHA and see for urself?
"Want to go into the meaning of the word RAPHA and see for urself?"
Sure! Let's do it! Ok, let's see..."rapha"...oh, HERE it is! It's Strongs hebrew word #7495. Here's the definition. "To heal, make whole, repair." God was called Jehovah RAPHA, the GOD WHO HEALS in Exodus 15:26. "I am the Lord that HEALETH(Heb RAPHA)thee."
LOL! I was just funnin' with ya! I knew what you meant. A departed spirit, like I said earlier and used scriptural references, is the breath of God returning TO God who gave it. Where you've been hoodwinked in your years of exposure to bad teaching, is that you believe that we actually have immortal spirits that depart either to heaven, or to "hell." This is not the case. The "spirit" of man is actually the "breath" of God in him, and when man dies, the breath "departs, and returns to God
OK kool... so we know that spirits exist outside of the body... because we have a hebrew word R'PA'IM describing this.
Now lets go to the passages where the hebrew word is used.
Firstly...
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV)
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead (R'PA'IM) for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Now, how can hell (SHEOL) stirr up a DEPARTED HUMAN SPIRIT?
It's hard to get anyone who is carnally minded to see spiritual things. With your preconceived idea that mankind has immortal spirits that float around to one place or the other after death, then you cannot see the scriptures that say that only God has immortality(Which the word "ONLY" is exclusive...meaning that mankind then DOES NOT have immortality, because ONLY God does. Therefore mankind does not have "immortal spirits"). [TO BE CONTINUED]
So, back to my point....the hebrew word "r'pa'im" when referring to"departed spirits" is only referring to the state of the dead. When it's used in the original hebrew, it simply means THE DEAD. See, the Hebrew people knew that in SHEOL, there's no work, knowledge, wisdom nor conciousness(Ecc 9:5,10).
CONT. Your preconceived notions(Which were created by the particular definitions of R'pa'im that you embrace)make you see verses like Isa 14:9 and Pro 9:18 as literal ghosts existing in sheol. But the word r'pa'im, as it's used in the original hebrew scriptures, simply means THE DEAD. The word SHEOL, which was spuriously translated "hell" 31 times in the old testament simply means "The unseen," or "the state of the dead." [TO BE CONTINUED]
"No hebrew scholar wud agre with u. Hebrew language is very descriptive, R'PA'IM never mearly meant dead, but a departed spirit."
For one, I don't base my beliefs on whether hebrew scholars "agre" with me. I understand that Jesus hides things from the wise and prudent(Matt 11:25;), and my faith stands not on the wisdom of men(scholars)but in the power of God(1 Cor 2:5). But back to your questions.....[TO BE CONTINUED]
Ok, it's hard to keep a continuous dialogue when you won't allow me to finish my thoughts. I constantly have to refer to additional comments you make. Ok, regarding your point as to what my disagreement with hebrew scholars. I know that there are no "departed spirits or ghosts" because the scriptures declare that when man dies, their "spirits"-which I already mentioned means "breath"-returns to God. So, I know that there are no "ghosts." TO BE CONTINUED(And could you PLEASE let me finish? ;)
Am I willing to believe a hebrew scholar when the definition of a word contradicts the word of God? No. I would rather believe the scriptures over man's wisdom. Hebrew scholars(And greek scholars as well)were used wonderfully by God to help us non-hebrew/greek speakers study the meaning of the words of the original hebrew and greek scriptures. But when determining the meaning of words, one must always study if those definitions contradict the word of God.....
who said departed spirits are in SHEOL? Me or the bible lol
Oh and like I said, disagreeing that R'PA'IM means a departed spirit is disagreeing with a dictionary. You dont know hebrew, and you as well as the entire English speaking world relies on a Hebrew dictionary and translation to know what the bible means.
There are no ghosts?
Its the same principle in English. Its based on a dictionary.
The direct hebrew meaning of SHEOL is actually 'the unseen underworld'
I was not using the like passage to say u can see spirits, I was using it to show that spirits exists and u said they dont... Look at Jesus' response...
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have,"
Thats the wonderful thing about a resurrected body, of which Jesus has(up to now)the ONLY one, since he is the firstfruits of them that slept(Which can't be said about "departed spirits"). It can appear in any form or shape that it wants. Jesus also appeared to be a gardener(John 20:15)
So, Jesus, being in a glorified resurrected body, had the ability to show himself, and showed himself to his disciples, and according to Paul, about 500 other people(1 Cor 15:6). A glorified body is not a "departed spirit." I'm glad that you agree that sheol means the unseen. It's a pity though that you can't see that there are any "departed spirits" in sheol, only the dead
"The word[PHYSCHE] depicts the departing of a man's soul"
Perhaps, but not in a literal sense. Remember, the "soul" is nothing but the combination of our flesh(Which God made of dust-See Genesis 2:7)and God's BREATH that he breathed in Adam to MAKE him a living soul. Once we "give up the ghost," the spirit goes back to God(Ecc 12:7), the dust(Which is our body)goes back to the ground(Gen 3:19;Ecc 12:7), and the soul simply CEASES TO BE...it doesn't really "depart" anywhere. ;)
Ok... lets look in the bible again and see where the DEPARTED SPIRITS are...
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV)
9 Hell (SHEOL - the unseen underworld) from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead (R'PA'IM - departed human spirits) for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Why is SHEOL stirring up departed human spirits? Dont they cease to exist and dont go anywhere?
"Why is SHEOL stirring up departed human spirits? Don't they cease to exist and don't go anywhere?"
Because as you said-and it's practically the only thing you said that I agree with- hebrew is a descriptive language. This isn't speaking of literal departed spirits, it's referring to the condition of SHEOL. It's describing the conditions of the UNSEEN. It's not talking a a LITERAL stirring up of LITERAL departed spirits. You have to SPIRITUALLY discern the word of God(1 Cor 2:14)
God is going to "stir up the departed spirits" in Sheol. Do you know what this is a prophecy of? Do you know what this refers to? The answer is... RESURRECTION! Psalm 16:10, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in SHEOL(The unseen):neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." 1 Cor 15:42,44 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It's sown in corruption, and raised in incorruption. It's sown a NATURAL body, it's raised a SPIRITUAL body
"How can the bible say that R'PA'IM-departed human spirits are in SHEOL-the unseen world when you CLAIM this is not so??"
Because there's no such thing as "departed human spirits." The bible doesn't literally mean that there are "departed human spirits" in SHEOL. SHEOL simply means THE STATE OF THE DEAD. So, the bible says that THE DEAD are in sheol. Sorry, this isn't my CLAIM, it's just what the scriptures say!
The greek word PNEUMA, when used in the context of man, means "breath." We all have the "breath" of God in us while we are alive. Remember, Adam didn't become a "living soul" until God BREATHED the breath of life into him. So, no...God didn't breathe a "ghost" into man, he breathed his own holy breath into man, and made us live. When we "give up the ghost", we simply die, period. And the breath goes back to God who gave it. Ecc 12:7
Ure also a hypocrite bcuz hebrew scholars are the people who translated the bible for you in the first place and it is a hebrew dictionary that they bible translators used for the same matt and 1 cor passages u quoted...
Let me see ur faith stand on the power of God with a bible written in Hebrew
Of course we dont rely on the wisdom of men. But the bible also says STUDY to shew thyself approved.
Disagreeing that R'PA'IM means departed spirit is like disagreeing with a dictionary Ridiculous
Ok trin..I see you won't let me complete a thought...so I'll just play your game(This is actually kind of fun! ;). Ok, that's ok if you think I'm a hypocrite and ridiculous, I know you don't know better...so I won't hold it against you! ;)
A few self acclaimed scholars have come up with this ridiculous and nonsensical view to tickle the ears and please the flesh.
Everyone wants to go to heaven so this universalism doctrine will easily please to modern day corrupt man.
You have a good zeal mate and I can sense ur disgust with these heresies, and its the same with me. Just keep on standing for the truth till Jesus returns and exposes these lies with the brightness of his coming.
"You have a good zeal mate and I can sense ur disgust with these heresies, and its the same with me."
Translation: "Mate, I'm just as disgusted as you are that God has the audacity to save ALL of his creation and that NOBODY will be burning alive in a fabled torture chamber! Thank GOD for the failure of his Son on the cross!"
"My faith is responsible for receiving God's grace."
Therefore, in your opinion, salvation is solely a result of your own efforts, because without your own faith, you render God's attempt to save useless. Thus, salvation is based on you, and you alone. You in essense saved yourself. Therefore, you are God. This thought is consistent with your heretical New Age beliefs. :)
Yep salvation is a manifested result from my efforts, after my faith God by Grace takes care of my salvation as promised by him if we have faith. Salvation is a state of being that God controls, to receive this states God laid down conditions to receive is "faith".
"You in essense saved yourself. Therefore, you are God. This thought is consistent with your heretical New Age beliefs. :)"
A fallacious conclusion, no where is my belief near new age teachings like your ALL saved doctrine...
Oh I already know what you believe, you don't believe the existence of freewill, also you believe that when the scriptures like Ephesians 2:8-9(as you misinterpret it as usual) includes faith not being of your own which in reality based on common sense a BS statement. And God says Salvation is not of our own, but the steps to receive the "state" is all your doing through conditions such as faith (Luke 17:10).
"One more note, Jesus does not seek us, we musat seek him...that's an absurd statement"
Let us see what SCRIPTURE says...
Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost.
What an absurd statement by our Lord and Savior! ;)
Luke 15:4 What man of you having 100 sheep if he should lose one, does not leave the 99 in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, UNTIL HE FIND IT?
Wow, Jesus made a LOT of absurd statements, didn't he??? ;)
Romans 10:9 -10, If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart(NOT GODS) that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth(NOT GODS) that you confess and are saved.
Luke 6:17, And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Tim 2:4.
He will have ALL man who come to him and his knowledge to be saved. This is true because of what Acts 16:30 says and the rest of the Bible.
(Luke 17:10). Man cannot earn salvation through works of merit, but he must comply with the conditions that the Lord laid down in order to receive the gift of salvation.
You have suggested that the doctrine of Universal Salvation could cause more people to end up in hell. But if you believed in the sovereignty of God as taught in the Holy Bible you would see that such an accusation is absurd.
Romans 8:30 ~ And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:11 ~ In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Romans 9:16 ~ So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Nothing that anyone does will be able to thwart Gods predetermined plan of the redemption of all creation
This idea is contradictory, you say that: God loves us and does not want any one to be lost in hell forever. 2Peter 3:9 So why would he do what he doesnt want. Hes God He can do anything! Im really trying but I just cant see the logic.
God does not force his self-desire over our desire, a Mother can desire her son to be straight in sexuality but he is homosexual and feels if his mother loves him he will let him be who he is even if she thinks it's wrong, this is the same case with God and man.
No quantum...this is not the same case with God and man. What you are doing is putting God on the same level as fallible human beings, which is blasphemy. When the disciples asked Jesus in Matt 19:25, "Who then can be saved?", Jesus replied, " With MEN this is impossible; BUT WITH GOD A-L-L THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."-and that includes saving ALL mankind. God's ways are far above ours, therefore he's not a helpless "mother" who can not do anything about her "son's homosexuality." Sheer blasphemy
And furthermore, who are you to say that God does not force his "self desire" over ours? Are you saying that God is SUBMISSIVE to our whims? Are you saying that he submits himself to the wills of his lowly creation?? If that's the case, he is in no wise sovereign. You speak nothing BUT blasphemy. God "forced" his "self desire" on Saul when he was determined to kill Christians on the road to Damascus. God works ALL things after the counsel of HIS will(Eph 1:11), not ours.
Their is nothing in Matthew 19:25 that states that ALL man are saved. It explains that through him all thing are possible if you have faith.
( ACTS 16:30) "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
This says dead and clear that you must believe to be saved. But everything you quote is not clear just a giant misinterpreted metaphor.
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Tim 2:4.
I guess you want to brush THAT off as a giant misinterpreted metaphor...kinda like you likening God to a mother with a homosexual son that she can do nothing with! :)
And yes,we all must believe in Christ to be saved. But here's the part that you conveniently omit. Nobody musters faith on their own, it must be given to us of God. Let me quote some more "giant misinterpreted metaphors" for you. "For by grace are you saved THROUGH FAITH, and THAT(faith)NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT'S A GIFT OF GOD." Eph 2:8. "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live...I live by the faith OF the son of God." Gal 2:20
Your interpretation of Esphesians 2:8 is false. Grace and Salvation is not of our own but God's, it does not say faith is not of or own but through it we receive grace not of or own ,faith does not come from God but from you.
Romans 10:9 -10, If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
My "interpretation" of Ephesians 2:8 is only false in your mind. It's a given that grace is not of ourselves, and if you really think that salvation is not of ourselves, yet you think that WE must generate our own faith to believe for that salvation, then you contradict yourself, for our own faith-according to you-is what is needed to save us, which would mean that salvation IS of our own...our own faith. If salvation is not of ourselves, then faith can only come from God
The scriptures even say that God gives each man a measure of faith(Rom 12:3). So, you can try to ignore it, explain it away, or even cross it out of your bible, but faith is a gift given of God, and is not of ourselves. This is the message of Ephesians 2:8. So yes, we must have faith, and that's why God will give it to all mankind.
Most people who despise that verse in 1 Tim 2:4 will claim that the proper interpretation of it is "God WISHES all to be saved"(Therefore believing that a sovereign God can desire something and not get it...contrary to Isa 46:10). But never have I seen someone twist it to say, "He will have ALL men WHO COME TO HIM be saved." Nowhere in that verse is the phrase "who come to him." You add those words that verse, and twist the word of God so that it can conform to your doctrine.
Lost sheep cannot come to the shepard on their own, that's why they're LOST. We frequently hear people say, "I found Jesus," when it's not HE that's lost, it's US. He, like the Good Shepard he is, must go out and look for his lost sheep, find them, put them on his shoulders and bring us back.-Luke 15:4-6. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost(Luke 19:10). Sadly, most of Christendom believes he'll seek, but will fail at saving all who are lost. But the scriptures say otherwise
Oh Lord, you also interpret Rom 12:3 wrong too because God's measure of faith is given to man by God's intervention by supernatural events. You have to compare scripture to see what is really meant. The term "if" as based on self act.
1 John 1:9), If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Ah yes, another person who relies on a translation and claims it to be inerrant instead of doing the homework to see what the GREEK really says. Yeah, your TRANSLATION certainly does teach eternal torment. It is made to uphold traditions created to keep people in line. But God's truth claims that He is triumphant and will bring to pass ALL of His will which He has told us is the redemption of the whole creation. SAVIOR OF THE WORLD! Is your god not triumphant? Mine is.
waitinontheLamb 1 month ago
God declares the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). So let's go to the beginning. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1). When did He create hell? God did not warn Adam and Eve of "eternal damnation" for eating of the tree of good and evil, however, He did say they would die (Genesis 2:17). The penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23). Not hell. Jesus came to redeem not to condemn (John 3:17).
cbenji07 1 month ago
If a majority of the world is going to hell, how is Jesus victorious? Sounds like a victory for Satan. How can I experience peace in Christ if my dead relatives are burning in hell right now? What if the verses that mention everlasting punishment are mistranslated? What if there is no eternal hell? Yes, the bible says repent and few find the narrow gate - how does this go against universal salvation? Why can't both exist?
urbanrecon 1 month ago
Brother your interpretion is based on a translation of the Bible not the authentic Bible in which the vast majority of early Christians believed in Universal Salvation. The first claim of eternal damnation entering Christian ideology was about the second century when a Roman Christian stated that he was looking forward to seeing many Roman Magistrates and rulers burning for all eternity. The vast majority of Christians disagreed with his interpretaion and eternal damnation was a latter doctrine
johnanderson777777 3 months ago
This brothers and sisters is a real christian, hes not laughing and joking around God is a serious, Gods word is serious.
imsuckingwind 4 months ago
If you combine ignorance to God's word, selfrightouse pride, blind ego, hate towards those who do not agree with you on scripture and spark the engine with a religiouse spirit like this brother on the video has; you get the hell doctrine.
manta4114 4 months ago
The pharisees taught the doctrine of Eternal torment ... Did you know that? Jesus warned his disciples of the false doctrines of the pharisees. Did you know that there where five catechetical schools of Christianity around the world during the first five centuries of the common era? Did you know that 4 of the six catechetical schools taught universal salvation? Only one taught annihilation, and only one taught eternal damnation.
Ironmaw1776 5 months ago
This is a concept that I found hard to accept also so I understand very much.
remember the scriptures say "EVERY knee shall bow" and "ALL the nations will bow down" and God will be "ALL in ALL" NOT all in some
Titus 1:10 "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, ESPECIALLY they of the circumcision:"
1 Timothy 4:10 "That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and ESPECIALLY of those who believe"
motibi 6 months ago
@motibi , that is what those who seek to twist the scriptures do ... They don't, and cant, rely on scholarly criticism concerning the translation of those verses, but instead they just have to lie and say the "especially", or "specially" means only and not most of all or chiefly. Then they blame us for contending the meaning of the words translated in the scriptures as eternal or everlasting etc. ...
Ironmaw1776 5 months ago
Hello SmileLoveForgive, Good luck in your belief that God will torture most of his creation for ever. When you read the bible you have to read it and divide it rightly. Did you know that the book you are holding up and put so much faith in is a copy and a very bad copy of the original scriptures? Gets studying brother before you cone on here telling
puddingpan 6 months ago
I think if the Holy Spirit was to manifest as fire in our local Christian bookshops you would be surprised how few books would be left. They are full of imaginations, not based on the Scriptures at all - just using the Bible.
SUNDAYSCHOOLTEACHER 8 months ago
@CMONE021187 God Bless you!!!
SmileLoveForgive 10 months ago
AMEN AMEN AMEN!
God Bless you and keep you! Keep speaking the truth bro!
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. (Rev 22:18,19)
I’m just sayin…. :)
marlessangela 10 months ago
@marlessangela Amen. GOD Bless you, sister. Jesus is Lord!
SmileLoveForgive 10 months ago
@marlessangela God bless you, dear sister!!
SmileLoveForgive 5 months ago
VERY PLAIN AND SIMPLE BROTHER! ARE YOU READY, ARE YOU SURE! HERE IT GOES. OPEN YOUR SPIRITUAL EARS AND EYES.....
KING JAMES VERSION 1TIMOTHY 3:6 ( LOOK IT UP, YOU WILL NOT BE SPOON FED.) ABANDON YOU DOCTRINE OF HATE THIS IS NOT GODS NATURE
triple1231000 10 months ago
LOVE WINS!!! MEANS Christ WINS!!! not satan!!! think about that>>>
soldierforGod25 10 months ago
OMG!!! WHAT??? ok first of all you need to know the TRUE love of Christ!!! the lake of fire is NOT what you think, HELL is not what you think.....get TRUTH my brother!! you are lost! AND you were praying out of your FLESH!!! wow!!! and this is the GOOD NEWS??? aaahhh no! you like JUDGEMENT better than GRACE!!!! WAKE UP!!!
soldierforGod25 10 months ago
@SmileLoveForgive Brother, I am so Blessed by the Truth of your warning. You are right. Don't allow these emissaries of satan to baffle you with their rejection of the Truth of God's Word. Jesus is Lord!
yralm07 10 months ago
@yralm07 So according to your belief, Love only conquers some. Tell me, what is the real purpose for preaching about and underworld called hell? The author of this video cant answer it, so maybe you can.
SwordofManticorE 10 months ago
@SwordofManticorE Absolutely. Because Jesus preached about hell as a warning. Just as Noah preached about the rain that was to fall from the sky; as a warning. Man that is born of a woman is of a few days and is full of troubles. God said, the wages of sin is death. But you say that we can do whatever we what because of the Grace of God. You are sadly mistaken! what shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid.
yralm07 10 months ago
@SwordofManticorE The Grace that you speak of is what our Lord and Savior did for mankind over 2000 years ago. He died in our place. What our great-grandparents, Adam and Eve, bought onto us all was DEATH, but JESUS made the ultimate sacrifice when he went to the CROSS. Because he died in your place and mine, and rose again, we all have a chance to live also. For GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
yralm07 10 months ago
@yralm07 God Bless you. All the glory to my Lord Jesus Christ!!!
SmileLoveForgive 10 months ago
Learn what the Kingdom of God./Kingdom of Heaven is ( both are the same). Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you..You need to first learn what the Kingdom of God is brother!...It is not here or there, or meat or drink..it is not a 'literal' place..Jesus said that, it is within you...Joy, Love, Peace, Righteousness in the Holy Spirit. That book has some mistranslations..You may not approve this message, but that is fine, do some research to find out about the TRUTH!.
SPOKENFOR36 11 months ago
@SPOKENFOR36 omg!! girl he is praying in the FLESH!!! he THINKS he got it!!!! LOL
soldierforGod25 10 months ago
You are sincere, but sincerely wrong. We preach the truth of the Gospel..Jesus is the Savior of ALL MEN and ESPECIALLY of those that believe. We are not twisting the word of God, we are preaching the TRUE Gospel...Learn the meaning of some of the original words in scripture. Hell is not 'eternal torment' it is the grave..Eternal Torment is a pagan myth brought into the Roman Catholic Church, it was never taught or preached in the days of the Early Christians. The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU!!!
SPOKENFOR36 11 months ago
At the start I thought you were praying to God, the moment you started speaking I knew you had been praying to Satan (praying to yourself).
thetwoseeds 11 months ago
@thetwoseeds And to think that love conquer's all? According to mainstream christianity, it doesn't. Last week, I asked this religiouse hypocrite SmileLoveForgive some pretty hard questions about salvation, and I just looked here on comments and he deleted my post. What does that tell you. He shouts and commands on his video, but squirms behind the delete button when over challenged. Remember what I wrote when this post disappears.
SwordofManticorE 11 months ago
Listen, Brothers and Sisters, because his witness is True.
yralm07 11 months ago
are u guys forming a cult? dont believe in hell, dont believe in eternal life, dont believe satan is a fallen angel, believe all people can be saved even if they dont believe in him... u guys are contradicting everything
MindSpiritAndSoul 1 year ago
hell exists...its the grave...heres one for ya...Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
xxbobdeexx 1 year ago
hell exists...its the grave...heres you for ya...Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
xxbobdeexx 1 year ago
Universal salvation teaches: [1] God will use the great white throne judgment to beat the unrepentant wicked people into submission for as long as it takes in order to persuade them into believing he loves them. [2] The fiery law of God (lake of fire) can do what the atoning sacrifice of Christ couldn’t do. [2a] The wicked are saved by God’s law not by the blood of Jesus. [3] The wages of sin is major child abuse through God’s fiery law and not the 2nd final death which ends their existence.
potooth 1 year ago
Listen my friend, hell does exist but the definition of it is both carnal and unscriptural. You say Jesus will NOT save all men? How not? As in Adam ALL die, EVEN SO, in JESUS will ALL be made ALIVE!!! 1 Cor 15:22.
apostleoftheWord 1 year ago
@fuckmania07
The Lake of Fire is a place of purification from sin and evil. It is a LAKE of fire, not a prison or dungeon. A LAKE is a place of cleansing and baptism. This is the baptism with fire to cleanse sin. There are no bars on a LAKE to keep anyone in.
123qth 1 year ago
@123qth THANK YOU!!!! may God Bless your words for it is the TRUTH
LionLoxx 1 year ago
The unjust will not see and experience the Kingdom of God (Glorified body) but during the GWT Judgment what will happen? All will confess Christ (Phil 2:11). Whatever the lake of fire symbolizes MUST bring about purification because Christ said, "If i be lifted up WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO MYSELF (John 12:32). Only an idiot would think the furnace of fire is literal and not believe Christ when he said MY WORDS ARE SPIRITUAL (John 6:63). In Psa 12:6 David speaks of a furnace as a purifying agent.
JAKEHARRIS281 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive about that quote, referring to the unrighteous and the unrighteous, the word "eternal" is actually a mistranslation of the word "aionian" which means age-lasting, the opposite of eternal. So the unrighteous will only go into temporary punishment.
aaa333ify 1 year ago
Even if you die an atheist, you can go to Heaven!!1 Peter 4: 5-6- “They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
aaa333ify 1 year ago
@aaa333ify Where do the Scriptures say an atheist will immediately go to heaven. They will learn righteousness (Isa 26:9), but not until the GWT Judgment. With all respect, don't ever say that again.
JAKEHARRIS281 1 year ago
The teaching of Hell is a tradition of Man. Most religions have a kind of Heaven and Hell. The Jews believed in no such place. Death was simply death.
djmarris 1 year ago
Another video to try to decieve the many back into the fear of punishment, instead of the love of God. My brother, you cannot change a heart once it has recieved the truth from the Holy Spirit and set him and her free from harlot doctrins. Your view on God is limited. Either believe that there is a hell, or burn in it. I am grateful that the Lord has set me free from your doctrins of fear. Since I recieved the truth of life, I have an over wealming love for all mankind that I didnt have Before
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
Another video to try to decieve the many back into the fear of punishment, instead of the love of God. My brother, you cannot change a heart once it has recieved the truth from the Holy Spirit and set him and her free from harlot doctrins. Your view on God is limited. Either believe that there is a hell, or burn in it. I am grateful that the Lord has set me free from your doctrins of fear. Since I recieved the truth of life, I have an over wealming love for all mankind that I didnt have Before.
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
where exactly does it say in scripture that the Bible is a sword?
plk11 1 year ago
@plk11 "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" Ephesians 6: 17
SmileLoveForgive 1 year ago
@plk11 "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" Ephesians 6: 17
SmileLoveForgive 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive
This cannot be referring to the Bible. The Bible as we know it today had not been written when Revelation was written
plk11 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive
The Bible as we know it today did not exist when the Epistle to the Ephesians was written. Consequently, the author could not have been talking about the Bible
plk11 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive the word is a reference to jesus christ who is the word - - - the bible is called the scriptures in the bible and never the word
jacksta111 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive I have a question to ask you, though you do not believe in universal salvation, I want to know if you desire universal salvation?
SwordofManticorE 11 months ago
@plk11 is that even a serious question
RobertoDuranLegend 1 year ago
Jesus is "the Christ, the Savior of the world." (John 4:42)
"This is good and acceptable in the sight of our God our saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (1 Tim. 2:3-6, KJV)
GodAllInAll1 1 year ago
please people. never fear your god. if you fear god, you will walk away from him and you will turn satanist, and that will fill your hearts with betrayal and anger. Never fear God, God only loves you and he wants you to love him, not fear him. The greatest trick that satan(the secret societies, masons/illuminati) pulled on the people, was to corrupt the original teachings of the christ and make people fear god. Search for the secret teachings of christ
Muzicboxtecnotunez 2 years ago
@Muzicboxtecnotunez
If you accept Jesus and keeps His commandments you have nothing to fear.
The greatest lie Satan spreads is to teach people NOT to fear the Lord. To be able to sin without fear of consequence.
Indigohue 2 years ago
What I don't get is that Christians say that the penalty for my sins is eternal torment. But Jesus didn't suffer eternal torment so how can He pay my eternal torment penalty?
If you incur a $1000 traffic fine - someone has to pay right? The authorities don't care who pays as long as they get their money.
If God requires eternal suffering because of your sin debt how come He never gets paid? Not by you, nor by your substitute?
dffblog 2 years ago
Good question. Well, there you go. Of course, Sin leads to eternal death, BUT -Halleluyah!!! Jesus is God in the flesh, fully God, fully Man. Death could not hold Him, cos He's God - He conquered death, overcame the grave, and has purchased for me, ETERNAL LIFE! isn't it amazing?
SmileLoveForgive 2 years ago
Evolutionists say to me - Life just came from nothing all by its self isn't that amazing! I say that just doesn't make sense.
Apparently I owe God an eternity of suffering - No one suffers for an eternity as my substitute but the debt is paid. - I say that just doesn't make sense.
dffblog 2 years ago
Excellent observation dffblog!!
Although it is true that Jesus would HAVE to suffer Eternal Torture in our place, if he really was to save us from our sins,...According to "Mainstream Propaganda", there is NO PLACE in the Original Word of God that tells us that Eternal Torture is the penalty for sin!
The Penalty for sin is DEATH,..not Eternal Torture!!!
But Jesus PAID that price for the WHOLE WORLD and NOT just a Small part of it!
That means all the Believers and NON believers!!
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
Paid for the price of death? We still die regardless because of the curse. He paid for something other then death because death still exist. He died because we could not obey the moral law represented by the ten commandments, he saved us from the ultimate punishment for breaking them, since death still exist their must be something beyond it he paid for, if he paid for death and it still exist his death was pointless, so "the death" must not been from this death in life, but another life...
QuantumUni 2 years ago
Dont underestimate the word of Almighty God. God clearly states that unrepentant sinners will face an eternity in HELL. Face this fact, dear friend, and pray for understanding; otherwise do not preach a HELL-LESS Gospel to people, otherwise their blood will be on your hands. God Bless you.
SmileLoveForgive 2 years ago
I would be more concerned about the blood on YOUR hands for blaspheming the character of God and turning unbelievers away from him with your erroneous hell doctrines.
Fleshissin 2 years ago
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
SmileLoveForgive 2 years ago
"Everlasting punishment" is an oxymoron. If punishment, which is given to correct wrong behavior, is "everlasting," then it's not punishment, it's torture. So, the correct translation is "age-abiding chastening." Again, you have heard the word of God, and will give account for blaspheming His character with this false doctrine, and you won't be able to use the excuse, "I didn't know."
Fleshissin 2 years ago
Well, according to your worldly wisdom punishment is gvien for correction. According to God's wisdom, He punishes unrepentant sinners FOREVER in a burning hell.
SmileLoveForgive 2 years ago
It's not according to my "worldy wisdom" that punishment is given for correction. It's according to the bible. When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Isaiah 26:9. Whom the Lord loves, he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: SHALL WE NOT MUCH RATHER BE IN SUBJECTION UNTO THE FATHER OF SPIRITS, AND LIVE? Heb 12:6,9.
Fleshissin 2 years ago
Comment removed
Fleshissin 2 years ago
Well, in which case, explain to me why Jesus died? Explain John 3: 16;
SmileLoveForgive 2 years ago
He died to save us from DEATH. He didn't die to save us from "eternal hell." Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering od death, that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man[not just SOME men, not just MOST men, but EVERY man]. That's why he died, to save us from death. And because he died, and resurrected, ALL men will be resurrected. For as in Adam, all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. I Cor 15:22
Fleshissin 2 years ago
Matthew 25:45 "Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Matt hew25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. "
What do you make of that scripture?
SmileLoveForgive 2 years ago
@SmileLoveForgive Aionion doesn't mean everlasting but rather eonian. II Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus 'BEFORE TIMES AIONION [Greek: pro chronon aionion]. Before times eternal is nonsense. The God inspired translation is BEFORE TIMES EONIAN.
JAKEHARRIS281 1 year ago
@Fleshissin You're wrong friend. That's what death is: eternal hell.
SmileLoveForgive 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive No, YOU are wrong. Death is the cessation of life. There's no such thing as an "eternal hell." God never warned Adam & Eve that they would suffer in an "eternal hell" when he warned them about eating from the tree. If that was the consequence of eating from that tree, then God surely would have told them. Again, death is the cessation of life, period. Your ungodly traditions have led you astray as to what death really is
Fleshissin 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive Eternal hell seems to me to be eternal life in hell, not death.
insertoriginaluser 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive
Romans 5:18 "Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."
That is proof that all men will be saved by the cross. Everyone will be born again, and everyone will be saved. The Lake of Fire is a place of purification from sin. It is a LAKE of fire, not a prison or dungeon of fire! There are no bars on a LAKE!
123qth 1 year ago
@SmileLoveForgive
The last enemy to be destroyed is DEATH! So there cannot be any eternal death because ALL death will be destroyed. (1 Cor 15:26)
123qth 1 year ago
John 3:16 is always used by people like you to somehow prove that people will go to hell for not believing in Jesus. But what this simply say is that God loves the world, and Jesus died for the sins of the world. This is ANOTHER explanation why he died, TO TAKE AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. John 1:29. Again, no mention of saving anyone from a burning hell. All those who believe will be saved. But we don't believe in Jesus on our own power. God gives us the faith to believe,
Fleshissin 2 years ago
Explain to me how faith is given...
Only logical conclusion is by hearing of the Word or encouragement by it, that is the only way faith can be exported because both faith and doubt is a by-product of the human conscience, the heart.
QuantumUni 2 years ago
And God will give everyone faith to believe which is why Paul said that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord. And we know that when you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord YOU SHALL BE SAVED> So, salvation will come to everyone because of Christ's death and resurrection. As Adam condemned the whole world unto death, even so, Christ will JUSTIFY the whole world. That's Romans 5:18.
Fleshissin 2 years ago
Do you believe the bible? Do you believe that Adam has more power to condem mankind than Christ has to SAVE it? You seem like a very angry person SmileLoveForgive, and sometimes I laugh when I see your clips and how angry you are, and why you chose the nickname you have. You don't have the love of Christ in you. You have a spirit of condemnation and opposition to God's plan to save all. I wish you were able to see it, but you obviously cannot. Pray that God will open your eyes
Fleshissin 2 years ago
(Can I choose TO BE saved?)
"You have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU" (John 15:16).
"There is NONE that seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11b).
"I am the vine, you are the branches for without me you can do NOTHING" (John 15:5).
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
Well done young man, for exposing that universal salvation nonsense.
You have been blessed with true wisdom & sincerity and could become a gifted pastor.
kub73158 2 years ago
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have ALL men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Tim 2:3,4
Wow...WHAT DISGUSTING HERESY!! ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Ok mr. scholar.... lets discuss scripture instead of adding our own interpretation to passages and taking the entire bible as a whole unit.
Firstly...
Do you believe a place of torment currently exists which hold departed human spirits?
Waiting for your reply. Depending on ur reponse I wud show u a could of passages.
Patiently waiting...
trinislobo 2 years ago
Your wait is over!
"Do you believe a place of torment currently exists which hold departed human spirits?"
No, and the scriptures don't speak of "human spirits" existing anywhere. At death, our bodies-that is, our fleshly exterior-returns to the ground, and the spirit-or literally, the "breath" that God breathed into us that made us a living soul(Gen 2:7) , returns to the God who gave it. (Gen 3:19;Psalm 104:29;Ecc 12:7). We are not "immortal spirits." Only GOD has immortality(1 Tim 6:16)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
I know EXACTLY what "could of passages" you're going to show me to try to refute what I just said. "mr. scholar" stands ready! Bring it on! ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
But before you bring it on, let me reply to your assertion that I "add my own interpretation to passages." Let's review 1 Tim 2:3,4
1."For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour." I interpret this to mean, "this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior."
2. "Who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." I interpret this to mean, "Who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth."
;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
I also have a hebrew bible study tool on my pc named...
WORDSearch8
The hebrew meaning given for RAPHA is...
"a ghost of the dead"
want to go into some hebrew studies mr. scholar?
trinislobo 2 years ago
"The hebrew meaning given for RAPHA is..."a ghost of the dead."
Hmm...let's see if you should trust that "WORDsearch8." Exodus 15:26. "I am the Lord that GHOSTS OF THE DEAD thee."
Did you get that hebrew study tool for christmas? I hope you kept the receipt...you may need to take it back! ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Lol thats funny...
Didnt i say strong's H7496 and not H7495....
Go back and look it over again...
Also study and see where strong's H7496 is used. Its certainly not in the passase u just quoted...
trinislobo 2 years ago
In the Hebrew there are actually 3 words for 'dead'...
We in English only see 'dead', but there are 3 different Hebrew words used for it..
1. MUT - dead of slain ( general word for dead)
2. NEBELA - a dead body or carcass (refering specifically to the physical carcass)
3 RAPHA - a departed spirit or the spirit of a person that is dead.
trinislobo 2 years ago
Thanks for ur reply. Now, think of this. If human spirits cannot exist outside of the body, why is there a hebrew word in the bible for human spirits that are outside of the body?
The hebrew word for this is RAPHA and it means "a departed or disembodied spirit".
How can a spirit not exist outside the body when the bible has a very word to describe this?
This proves that you have failed to interpret those passages correctly.
Want to go into the meaning of the word RAPHA and see for urself?
trinislobo 2 years ago
"Want to go into the meaning of the word RAPHA and see for urself?"
Sure! Let's do it! Ok, let's see..."rapha"...oh, HERE it is! It's Strongs hebrew word #7495. Here's the definition. "To heal, make whole, repair." God was called Jehovah RAPHA, the GOD WHO HEALS in Exodus 15:26. "I am the Lord that HEALETH(Heb RAPHA)thee."
Got any more? ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Dude, I said strong's H7496 not 7495....
Now go back to blue letter bible . org and look it over again.
trinislobo 2 years ago
"Dude, I said strong's H7496 not 7495"
"Dude," strong's H7496 is not RAPHA, it's R'PA'IM
;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Good... now check and see what
R'PA'IM
means. I was using blue letter bible...
But in WORDsearch8 it has R'PA'IM so were on the same footing. Now what does that hebrew word mean.....?
trinislobo 2 years ago
LOL! I was just funnin' with ya! I knew what you meant. A departed spirit, like I said earlier and used scriptural references, is the breath of God returning TO God who gave it. Where you've been hoodwinked in your years of exposure to bad teaching, is that you believe that we actually have immortal spirits that depart either to heaven, or to "hell." This is not the case. The "spirit" of man is actually the "breath" of God in him, and when man dies, the breath "departs, and returns to God
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
OK kool... so we know that spirits exist outside of the body... because we have a hebrew word R'PA'IM describing this.
Now lets go to the passages where the hebrew word is used.
Firstly...
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV)
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead (R'PA'IM) for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Now, how can hell (SHEOL) stirr up a DEPARTED HUMAN SPIRIT?
trinislobo 2 years ago
It's hard to get anyone who is carnally minded to see spiritual things. With your preconceived idea that mankind has immortal spirits that float around to one place or the other after death, then you cannot see the scriptures that say that only God has immortality(Which the word "ONLY" is exclusive...meaning that mankind then DOES NOT have immortality, because ONLY God does. Therefore mankind does not have "immortal spirits"). [TO BE CONTINUED]
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Its amazing how u cannot reply to the fact the the very bible says DEPARTED SPIRITS are in SHEOL.... the bible said so not me...
Look how quickly you ran away from this and rambled on about somethin else.
All I was showing is that the bibe plainly shows departed spirits are in sheol...
Why are u running away from this bible fact staring you straight in the face...???
Want another verse?
trinislobo 2 years ago
MY GOODNESS you're impatient!!!! LOL!! Can you please give me some time to respond to your questions?????
;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
LOL.... what.... you want some time to explain away how the bible can say departed spirits are in SHEOL...
Want more verses?
trinislobo 2 years ago
So, back to my point....the hebrew word "r'pa'im" when referring to"departed spirits" is only referring to the state of the dead. When it's used in the original hebrew, it simply means THE DEAD. See, the Hebrew people knew that in SHEOL, there's no work, knowledge, wisdom nor conciousness(Ecc 9:5,10).
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
@XposeTheLie Yes that is true only the physical body.
jamesstenbeck1977 1 month ago
CONT. Your preconceived notions(Which were created by the particular definitions of R'pa'im that you embrace)make you see verses like Isa 14:9 and Pro 9:18 as literal ghosts existing in sheol. But the word r'pa'im, as it's used in the original hebrew scriptures, simply means THE DEAD. The word SHEOL, which was spuriously translated "hell" 31 times in the old testament simply means "The unseen," or "the state of the dead." [TO BE CONTINUED]
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Umm, actually r'pa'im means departed spirit
U display ur lack of study into the herbew
The general hebrew word for dead is MUT not r'pa'im
The Hebrew uses 3 words for dead
MUT - dead
NEBELA - a dead body
R'PA'IM - a departed spirit
R'PA'IM has the following train of meanings.... departed spirits, shades, ghosts, ghosts of the dead, spirits, or a dead persons spirit
No hebrew scholar wud agre with u. Hebrew language is very descriptive. R'PA'IM never mearly meant dead, but a departed spirit
trinislobo 2 years ago
"No hebrew scholar wud agre with u. Hebrew language is very descriptive, R'PA'IM never mearly meant dead, but a departed spirit."
For one, I don't base my beliefs on whether hebrew scholars "agre" with me. I understand that Jesus hides things from the wise and prudent(Matt 11:25;), and my faith stands not on the wisdom of men(scholars)but in the power of God(1 Cor 2:5). But back to your questions.....[TO BE CONTINUED]
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
LOL such hypocrisy...
You dont agree with these hebrew scholars yet they are the same people which you study in 'strong's' hebrew words. Such nonsense.
Plus we dont even have to trust the Hebrew scholars, all we need is a simple Hebrew dictionary.
If we spoke Hebrew, when we read the word R'PA'IM what comes to our mind is a departed spirit or a ghost of a dead and not merely 'dead'
U dont understand hebrew sir, u have clearly displayed so in ur comments.
trinislobo 2 years ago
Ok, it's hard to keep a continuous dialogue when you won't allow me to finish my thoughts. I constantly have to refer to additional comments you make. Ok, regarding your point as to what my disagreement with hebrew scholars. I know that there are no "departed spirits or ghosts" because the scriptures declare that when man dies, their "spirits"-which I already mentioned means "breath"-returns to God. So, I know that there are no "ghosts." TO BE CONTINUED(And could you PLEASE let me finish? ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Am I willing to believe a hebrew scholar when the definition of a word contradicts the word of God? No. I would rather believe the scriptures over man's wisdom. Hebrew scholars(And greek scholars as well)were used wonderfully by God to help us non-hebrew/greek speakers study the meaning of the words of the original hebrew and greek scriptures. But when determining the meaning of words, one must always study if those definitions contradict the word of God.....
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
LOL
who said departed spirits are in SHEOL? Me or the bible lol
Oh and like I said, disagreeing that R'PA'IM means a departed spirit is disagreeing with a dictionary. You dont know hebrew, and you as well as the entire English speaking world relies on a Hebrew dictionary and translation to know what the bible means.
There are no ghosts?
Its the same principle in English. Its based on a dictionary.
Luke 24:37
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
trinislobo 2 years ago
Luke 24:37
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit."
NEWS FLASH! You can't "see" spirits! LOL!
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
That's why SHEOL means "THE UNSEEN. ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Exactly!! LOLLL... SHEOL does mean the unseen...
The direct hebrew meaning of SHEOL is actually 'the unseen underworld'
I was not using the like passage to say u can see spirits, I was using it to show that spirits exists and u said they dont... Look at Jesus' response...
Luke 24:39 (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
So Jesus believes and it and u dont? LOL
trinislobo 2 years ago
Luke 24:39 (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have,"
Thats the wonderful thing about a resurrected body, of which Jesus has(up to now)the ONLY one, since he is the firstfruits of them that slept(Which can't be said about "departed spirits"). It can appear in any form or shape that it wants. Jesus also appeared to be a gardener(John 20:15)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
So, Jesus, being in a glorified resurrected body, had the ability to show himself, and showed himself to his disciples, and according to Paul, about 500 other people(1 Cor 15:6). A glorified body is not a "departed spirit." I'm glad that you agree that sheol means the unseen. It's a pity though that you can't see that there are any "departed spirits" in sheol, only the dead
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
How can you say there are no departed spirits in SHEOL when the bible says so???????
trinislobo 2 years ago
"How can you say there are no departed spirits in SHEOL when the bible says so???????"
Because the bible doesn't say so. What's in SHEOL is the UNSEEN. There are no LITERAL departed spirits in sheol. ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
I would rather disagree with a dictionary than the word of God. And to answer your question...no, there are no ghosts.
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
There are ghosts sir... LOL... have you ever read the bible??
Very first time in the bible...
Genesis 25:8 (KJV)
8 Then Abraham gave up the GHOST, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
No ghosts in the bible? AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOLLL
How about the New Testament...
Acts 5:5 (KJV)
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Dont be ridiculous.
trinislobo 2 years ago
"Genesis 25:8(KJV)
8 Then Abraham gave up the GHOST, and died..."
Ghost-H1478-"GA'VAH"- primitive root-"To breath out" to EXPIRE, to DIE.
hee hee hee! Abraham DIED! That's what "give up the ghost means...to die! ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
LOL... look at this sir...
Acts 5:5 (KJV)
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
The word 'gave up the ghost' in greek is ekpsychō. Its made up of two greek words.
EK - to come out of, to come out from
now.. what is PHYSCHE in greek?
soul
the word depicts the departing of a man's soul
trinislobo 2 years ago
"The word[PHYSCHE] depicts the departing of a man's soul"
Perhaps, but not in a literal sense. Remember, the "soul" is nothing but the combination of our flesh(Which God made of dust-See Genesis 2:7)and God's BREATH that he breathed in Adam to MAKE him a living soul. Once we "give up the ghost," the spirit goes back to God(Ecc 12:7), the dust(Which is our body)goes back to the ground(Gen 3:19;Ecc 12:7), and the soul simply CEASES TO BE...it doesn't really "depart" anywhere. ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
It doesnt depart anywhere...
Ok... lets look in the bible again and see where the DEPARTED SPIRITS are...
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV)
9 Hell (SHEOL - the unseen underworld) from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead (R'PA'IM - departed human spirits) for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Why is SHEOL stirring up departed human spirits? Dont they cease to exist and dont go anywhere?
trinislobo 2 years ago
"Why is SHEOL stirring up departed human spirits? Don't they cease to exist and don't go anywhere?"
Because as you said-and it's practically the only thing you said that I agree with- hebrew is a descriptive language. This isn't speaking of literal departed spirits, it's referring to the condition of SHEOL. It's describing the conditions of the UNSEEN. It's not talking a a LITERAL stirring up of LITERAL departed spirits. You have to SPIRITUALLY discern the word of God(1 Cor 2:14)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
God is going to "stir up the departed spirits" in Sheol. Do you know what this is a prophecy of? Do you know what this refers to? The answer is... RESURRECTION! Psalm 16:10, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in SHEOL(The unseen):neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." 1 Cor 15:42,44 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It's sown in corruption, and raised in incorruption. It's sown a NATURAL body, it's raised a SPIRITUAL body
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
It all comes down to the fact of this...
How can the bible say that
R'PA'IM - departed human spirits
are in
SHEOL - the unseen underworld
When you CLAIM this is not so??
trinislobo 2 years ago
"How can the bible say that R'PA'IM-departed human spirits are in SHEOL-the unseen world when you CLAIM this is not so??"
Because there's no such thing as "departed human spirits." The bible doesn't literally mean that there are "departed human spirits" in SHEOL. SHEOL simply means THE STATE OF THE DEAD. So, the bible says that THE DEAD are in sheol. Sorry, this isn't my CLAIM, it's just what the scriptures say!
;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
"Acts 5:5 (KJV)
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost...."
Ghost- EXEPSUXEN: G1634 TO EXPIRE, TO DIE
Ananias DIED. ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
No ghosts?
The word for GHOST in New Testament -
PNEUMA
Having the following meanings...
an angel, a demon, a spirit (human), the Holy Spirit...
Who are you trying to fool?
trinislobo 2 years ago
The greek word PNEUMA, when used in the context of man, means "breath." We all have the "breath" of God in us while we are alive. Remember, Adam didn't become a "living soul" until God BREATHED the breath of life into him. So, no...God didn't breathe a "ghost" into man, he breathed his own holy breath into man, and made us live. When we "give up the ghost", we simply die, period. And the breath goes back to God who gave it. Ecc 12:7
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Ure also a hypocrite bcuz hebrew scholars are the people who translated the bible for you in the first place and it is a hebrew dictionary that they bible translators used for the same matt and 1 cor passages u quoted...
Let me see ur faith stand on the power of God with a bible written in Hebrew
Of course we dont rely on the wisdom of men. But the bible also says STUDY to shew thyself approved.
Disagreeing that R'PA'IM means departed spirit is like disagreeing with a dictionary Ridiculous
trinislobo 2 years ago
Ok trin..I see you won't let me complete a thought...so I'll just play your game(This is actually kind of fun! ;). Ok, that's ok if you think I'm a hypocrite and ridiculous, I know you don't know better...so I won't hold it against you! ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Im waiting mr. scholar...
Why are R'PA'IM (departed spirits) being stirred up in SHEOL (hell)...
Arent there no departed human spirits in hell??
And this is just one passage where R'PA'IM is used...
Want to go into the others?
Here's another...
Proverbs 9:18 (KJV)
18 But he knoweth not that the dead (R'PA'IM) are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell (SHEOL)
Huh? DEPARTED SPIRITS in SHEOL again? How so, arent there no spirits in hell and isnt hell just a human grave???
trinislobo 2 years ago
If you wish to see this word RAPHA and its meaning for urself to go blue letter bible . org online and look up the word and its meanings.
Its number is
strong's H7496 - rapha'
trinislobo 2 years ago
Daniel 12:2 (KJV)
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 25:46 (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Eternal/Everlasting life is always contrasted against eternal damnation. Our eternal life does not end, neither does a sinners eternal damnation.
This eternal salvation heresy is such a lie that its disgusting
trinislobo 2 years ago
Hmm... universal salvation the latest heresy.
A few self acclaimed scholars have come up with this ridiculous and nonsensical view to tickle the ears and please the flesh.
Everyone wants to go to heaven so this universalism doctrine will easily please to modern day corrupt man.
You have a good zeal mate and I can sense ur disgust with these heresies, and its the same with me. Just keep on standing for the truth till Jesus returns and exposes these lies with the brightness of his coming.
trinislobo 2 years ago
"You have a good zeal mate and I can sense ur disgust with these heresies, and its the same with me."
Translation: "Mate, I'm just as disgusted as you are that God has the audacity to save ALL of his creation and that NOBODY will be burning alive in a fabled torture chamber! Thank GOD for the failure of his Son on the cross!"
Brilliant!!! ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Ha, one more thing, Salvation is not of our own but faith is.
My faith is responsible for receiving God's grace and God's grace resposible for my salvation which he takes care of.
QuantumUni 2 years ago
"My faith is responsible for receiving God's grace."
Therefore, in your opinion, salvation is solely a result of your own efforts, because without your own faith, you render God's attempt to save useless. Thus, salvation is based on you, and you alone. You in essense saved yourself. Therefore, you are God. This thought is consistent with your heretical New Age beliefs. :)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Yep salvation is a manifested result from my efforts, after my faith God by Grace takes care of my salvation as promised by him if we have faith. Salvation is a state of being that God controls, to receive this states God laid down conditions to receive is "faith".
"You in essense saved yourself. Therefore, you are God. This thought is consistent with your heretical New Age beliefs. :)"
A fallacious conclusion, no where is my belief near new age teachings like your ALL saved doctrine...
QuantumUni 2 years ago
"Yep salvation is a manifested result from my efforts..."
That's what I wanted you to FINALLY admit for all those who visit the clip to read! Mission accomplished! Thank you for the debate quantum! ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Oh I already know what you believe, you don't believe the existence of freewill, also you believe that when the scriptures like Ephesians 2:8-9(as you misinterpret it as usual) includes faith not being of your own which in reality based on common sense a BS statement. And God says Salvation is not of our own, but the steps to receive the "state" is all your doing through conditions such as faith (Luke 17:10).
QuantumUni 2 years ago
One more note, Jesus does not seek us, we must seek him.. that's an absurb statement.
Matthew 7:7, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
QuantumUni 2 years ago
"One more note, Jesus does not seek us, we musat seek him...that's an absurd statement"
Let us see what SCRIPTURE says...
Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost.
What an absurd statement by our Lord and Savior! ;)
Luke 15:4 What man of you having 100 sheep if he should lose one, does not leave the 99 in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, UNTIL HE FIND IT?
Wow, Jesus made a LOT of absurd statements, didn't he??? ;)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Romans 10:9 -10, If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart(NOT GODS) that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth(NOT GODS) that you confess and are saved.
Luke 6:17, And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you
QuantumUni 2 years ago
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Tim 2:4.
He will have ALL man who come to him and his knowledge to be saved. This is true because of what Acts 16:30 says and the rest of the Bible.
(Luke 17:10). Man cannot earn salvation through works of merit, but he must comply with the conditions that the Lord laid down in order to receive the gift of salvation.
You must have faith
QuantumUni 2 years ago
You have suggested that the doctrine of Universal Salvation could cause more people to end up in hell. But if you believed in the sovereignty of God as taught in the Holy Bible you would see that such an accusation is absurd.
Romans 8:30 ~ And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
TheSaviouroftheworld 2 years ago
Ephesians 1:11 ~ In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Romans 9:16 ~ So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Nothing that anyone does will be able to thwart Gods predetermined plan of the redemption of all creation
TheSaviouroftheworld 2 years ago
This idea is contradictory, you say that: God loves us and does not want any one to be lost in hell forever. 2Peter 3:9 So why would he do what he doesnt want. Hes God He can do anything! Im really trying but I just cant see the logic.
TheSaviouroftheworld 2 years ago
God does not force his self-desire over our desire, a Mother can desire her son to be straight in sexuality but he is homosexual and feels if his mother loves him he will let him be who he is even if she thinks it's wrong, this is the same case with God and man.
QuantumUni 2 years ago
No quantum...this is not the same case with God and man. What you are doing is putting God on the same level as fallible human beings, which is blasphemy. When the disciples asked Jesus in Matt 19:25, "Who then can be saved?", Jesus replied, " With MEN this is impossible; BUT WITH GOD A-L-L THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."-and that includes saving ALL mankind. God's ways are far above ours, therefore he's not a helpless "mother" who can not do anything about her "son's homosexuality." Sheer blasphemy
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
And furthermore, who are you to say that God does not force his "self desire" over ours? Are you saying that God is SUBMISSIVE to our whims? Are you saying that he submits himself to the wills of his lowly creation?? If that's the case, he is in no wise sovereign. You speak nothing BUT blasphemy. God "forced" his "self desire" on Saul when he was determined to kill Christians on the road to Damascus. God works ALL things after the counsel of HIS will(Eph 1:11), not ours.
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Their is nothing in Matthew 19:25 that states that ALL man are saved. It explains that through him all thing are possible if you have faith.
( ACTS 16:30) "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
This says dead and clear that you must believe to be saved. But everything you quote is not clear just a giant misinterpreted metaphor.
QuantumUni 2 years ago
OK, how about this....
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Tim 2:4.
I guess you want to brush THAT off as a giant misinterpreted metaphor...kinda like you likening God to a mother with a homosexual son that she can do nothing with! :)
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
And yes,we all must believe in Christ to be saved. But here's the part that you conveniently omit. Nobody musters faith on their own, it must be given to us of God. Let me quote some more "giant misinterpreted metaphors" for you. "For by grace are you saved THROUGH FAITH, and THAT(faith)NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT'S A GIFT OF GOD." Eph 2:8. "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live...I live by the faith OF the son of God." Gal 2:20
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Your interpretation of Esphesians 2:8 is false. Grace and Salvation is not of our own but God's, it does not say faith is not of or own but through it we receive grace not of or own ,faith does not come from God but from you.
Romans 10:9 -10, If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
QuantumUni 2 years ago
My "interpretation" of Ephesians 2:8 is only false in your mind. It's a given that grace is not of ourselves, and if you really think that salvation is not of ourselves, yet you think that WE must generate our own faith to believe for that salvation, then you contradict yourself, for our own faith-according to you-is what is needed to save us, which would mean that salvation IS of our own...our own faith. If salvation is not of ourselves, then faith can only come from God
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
The scriptures even say that God gives each man a measure of faith(Rom 12:3). So, you can try to ignore it, explain it away, or even cross it out of your bible, but faith is a gift given of God, and is not of ourselves. This is the message of Ephesians 2:8. So yes, we must have faith, and that's why God will give it to all mankind.
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Most people who despise that verse in 1 Tim 2:4 will claim that the proper interpretation of it is "God WISHES all to be saved"(Therefore believing that a sovereign God can desire something and not get it...contrary to Isa 46:10). But never have I seen someone twist it to say, "He will have ALL men WHO COME TO HIM be saved." Nowhere in that verse is the phrase "who come to him." You add those words that verse, and twist the word of God so that it can conform to your doctrine.
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Lost sheep cannot come to the shepard on their own, that's why they're LOST. We frequently hear people say, "I found Jesus," when it's not HE that's lost, it's US. He, like the Good Shepard he is, must go out and look for his lost sheep, find them, put them on his shoulders and bring us back.-Luke 15:4-6. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost(Luke 19:10). Sadly, most of Christendom believes he'll seek, but will fail at saving all who are lost. But the scriptures say otherwise
XposeTheLie 2 years ago
Oh Lord, you also interpret Rom 12:3 wrong too because God's measure of faith is given to man by God's intervention by supernatural events. You have to compare scripture to see what is really meant. The term "if" as based on self act.
1 John 1:9), If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
QuantumUni 2 years ago