13 Things I Learned at Kahoolawe

[RetSquid]

I quite enjoyed being there on a ship and shooting that island. It was very good practice.

[TheKaleilehua]

Our people are trying to perpetuate the culture, gather our history and teach it so that it can live on. DO NOT GET MAD that we are trying to teach people what happened. If it really bothers you, and you see bad in the world, why dont you try and change that. The Pinky show is trying to make something that she cares about a better place. So if the injustice in Iran and places like that are really bothering you and you feel there needs to be a change... why dont YOU go and fix things there.

[TheKaleilehua]

To everyone dissing this video: You do not understand, so stop. Yeah, there are a lot of terrible things that happened to many places in the world. Hawaii was illegally overthrown and America SUPRESSED OUR CULTURE. Now that we have the freedom to revive our culture many Hawaiians and people throughout the world do not know what happened to Hawaii and Hawaiians. America hid what they did from everyone including Hawaiians.

[TheKaleilehua]

& Just so everyone knows.. Yes Kaho'olawe is now a dessert land, but it wasnt always. This came about this way because America used it as bomb practice. They bombed teh island for years. This made teh island teh way it is now. people go to Kaho"olawe now to restore its beauty and culture. But there is still so much beauty, I wish you could see.

[TheKaleilehua]

Thank you Pinky for sharing with everyone what happened to our sacred Hawaiian island!

[stjimy]

I ILOVE THE SOUND OF THE OCEAN IN THIS VID PINKY, THANK U!!!!!

[ToolsnFire]

We don't need these computers anymore now.

[usmc7242]

Oh, Good Grief, Kahoolawe was a DESERT Island, thee is NO fresh water source on it's own except by RAINFALL. I WAS THERE! All this complaint is whining about NOTHING, there was never a large village there, no permanent habitation because there is ZERO fresh water there! The only people who want to speak this way are pagan Hawaiian religious shaman or something

[cluebcke]

Think about what pre-technological life was actually like before getting too enamored of the idea of "returning to nature" or living by some culture's pre-industrial ways. Such cultures are not just often warlike; they also tend to be theocratic and profoundly oppressive. Oh, and babies die a lot.

[NISHOYINGWENMA]

What on Earth? One of the world's most dangerous places? Do you know how many Vietnamese have to be wary of unexploded bombs dropped by the US over 30 years ago? Children still die of them, and I hardly think that this island is one of the most dangerous islands in the world.

[SySt3m]

@NISHOYINGWENMA Who said it was one of the world's most dangerous places?

[usmc7242]

@NISHOYINGWENMA The Vietnamese are more afraid of the punji pits and unexploded land mines by the NVA, get your facts straight

[mehwaztaken]

there is no government in Somalia.

[thebodgod]

I generally like these videos but ... I couldn't sit through all of it and got bored.

[hhamor]

@hhamor This video has spoken to me.....

I need to visit Kahoolawe to learn more about its beautiful and tragic pasts and what should we do for the world.

[usmc7242]

@hhamor Kahoolawe is a desert island, there is no real beauty there except as a desert, it looks nothing like the rest of the Hawaiin Islands as far as beauty goes

[usmc7242]

@hhamor Why don't you go to Iran or Pakistan and preach pacifism and tolerance?

[stjimy]

@usmc7242 she dont need go to far to see intolerants animals!!!! u are the best example of that!!!

[usmc7242]

@stjimy Actually, responding with an insult makes me proud to see that means I won the debate. Present from facts, here, that Island was nothing but desert, thereis ZERO fresh water, rats all over, no rain forest AT ALL, NOTHING to support life by itself!

[stjimy]

@usmc7242 u won what??? sorry I dont know that this was a kind of competition I always think thta this a chanel to see the people opinion about a topic!! even if some opinions like u are nothing to do whit a topic I cant expect more from somebody whos nickname is usmgay!! sorry I mean usmc hey by the way the Sahara desert in more desertic that this island and is an ecosystem dumpass whait you think if is not green dont have live!!

[usmc7242]

@stjimy Winning against you is easy, you came to an intellectual debate with an empty brain, why don't you go occupy Koolawe!

[stjimy]

@usmc7242 jezz this is a intelectual debate my god why why never ever told me that before anyway the biggest brains in the earth must be shacking whit ur superiotie intelectual brain!!! well mr smart I am not a genius like u but I guess that before occupy a place that was totally plant whit bombs before must be cleaned dont u think the same!!!

[stjimy]

I hope some day visit this beutiful island!!!

[muta157]

Am I supposed to take this seriously when you hide behind this cartoon?

[alexr415]

*Standing Ovasion*

Great Job! Loved it!

[iloccos]

Mahalo Uncle Emit Aluli, Daviana and Pale kapu and every individual that make it how it is. I went in 1989 and I like go there again someday!! And my moms demonstration on Hilo airport to give Hawaiian's justice.

[stjimy]

great job cats!!!!!

[iCraacked]

Oh wow.

So they used both this and Bikini Atoll? Horrible.

[cuberland17a]

I enjoy Pinky's reports and commentaries as well as her insights. I don't always always agree with everything she says, but after watching her videos, I feel more informed. Often, I discover new ways of thinking about issues she presents.

I'd give her a hug if I wasn't allergic to kitties. Keep on keep'n on Pinky!

[erdeimoha]

Pinky , I love you so! (Erdeimoha from Hungary)

[RexNunc]

Who loves you Pinky

[BasildonIsGreat]

Fuck the united states

[sdsapphire]

Easy brah, how about fuck the US gov't not the US.

[SPYK3O]

Don't be fooled. Destruction, even in its purest form, is very worldly, productive, and educational.

[Nabo00o]

Hmm, strange logic, but I won't dismiss it without you defending it ;D

[SPYK3O]

Yeah, I suppose that is a pretty strange statement I made. Basically what I am trying to say is that creation and destruction are two halves of a single coin, you cant have one without the other. By that logic creation is just as destructive as destruction is creative. For instance you cant make an omelette without destroying a few eggs, the chicken cant live to make eggs without it destroying the grain it eats and so on.

hell maybe my logic is strange lol

[Nabo00o]

I agree that both "good" and "evil" is necessary in order to obtain and sense life, but they are not the same. As you say they are really the two sides of the same coin.

In my view, good and bad is the way we as individual beings interact with the world, and whether that interaction is felt as pleasant or harmful, is just result of our own development.

I believe in karma, so that means that everything which we do against others, will sooner or later return to us.

[Nabo00o]

But I also see the logic of creation and destruction.

In order to create something new and maybe better, something else needs to be disassembled and restored, and to be used as a tool for the betterment of our existence.

Thought and mind is also included in those set of tools and "materials"...

Thoughts are spiritual constructions and creations....

[sdsapphire]

Maybe natural destruction like fires, earthquakes, floods, etc .... NOT BOMBING AN ISLAND !

[Kurushimus]

ZOMG ADORABLE KITT0RZ

[USN1985]

I reallllly wish that "Pinky" & "Bunny" would move somewhere where they could actually see what it's like to live in a truly hostile environment. They seem to be chief accusers that of the US being an Evil Empire, so why don't they leave? We're obviously vile and wretched, so perhaps China would be more to their liking? Maybe Russia? Somalia? No?

[AutoTrion3]

And what would help keep the US in check? If people don't speak out, then the government could very well become as bad as China and Somalia. Or would you prefer apathy? I commend them, they make some very good points.

[mehwaztaken]

@AutoTrion3 there is no government in Somalia.

[bj616]

That was a very cool slide show. I just got back from Hawaii 2 days ago. I travel there alot and I love the place.

[ossumguywill]

cool! I'm gonna head there and find some ordinance to keep as a souvenir....

[Bakuninmeow]

Interesting video, Pinky, and it has quite a number of good points. However, please don't forget that even in technological simple societies, like Ha'wa'ii's prior to the mid-19th Century, social phenomena like war, murder, etc can, do, and did occur. The arrival of the British, and later, the Americans, added on further layers of those, and worse. But, they existed, albeit in "simpler" form, well before then. Simplicity, including social and techological simplicity, doesn't always mean harmony.

[sourbittersweet]

i love number 4 "a society that perpetrates the abuse of land and ocean is sick..." im totally agree and its so sad to see that nowadays we are all getting sickier and sickier.

[Komet163B]

This Pinky is interesting.. Her voice kind of puts you in a trance when you watch the videos.. She keeps stressing that people don't need to be schooled, but in today's society you need "schooling" to earn a decent living monetary wise (and EVERYTHING costs money, even simple survival things). I think the key is to investigate what is presented to you and what you have experienced, then retain what is useful.

[rad3xl]

"in today's society you need "schooling" to earn a decent living monetary wise (and EVERYTHING costs money, even simple survival things)"

Then maybe we need a new society, one that makes us share towards survival and well.being, instead of one that forces to be schooled-to have money-and then survive.

Just saying.

A "decent living" is not luxury, is to live life decently.

[bj616]

I agree, her voice does put me in a trance. I listen to it over and over just to hear her voice.

[ossumguywill]

yeah wtf it sounds kinda wierd but it just makes me soooo sleepy and calm. I wonder what she looks like in real life.

[bj616]

She sounds very young and I'm guessing she is Asian Hawaiian. I dig her voice, but it irritates my wife, lol. Perhaps I'll have a listen to her right now.

[ossumguywill]

yeah, I was wondering how old she was..... she sounds a bit stuffy, but that's just the relaxing part.

[helldropper]

Like a cat.A cute black and white cat with a weird yet soothing voice.

[RyRyVids]

Ever check out TED pinky? I think your proactive and progressive spirit would find it useful.

[rokuronium]

how do we donate to the pinky show?

[dudeskinn]

Man - what a bunch of hippies.

[yusukeshinyama]

Apart from a couple of emotional appeals, I liked the video for the most part.

You know, what we have to do here is to hold our mind and refrain ourselves from jumping into a simplistic conclusion. Many people don't want to do this because it gives you uncomfortable and/or suspensive feelings. But I think the true intellectual honesty is this very ability to endure this sort of uncomfortableness. At least it is very hard to me for now...

[absentmindedprof]

Another great video, Pinky! I'd like to learn more about this island and its history. Also I'd like to know more about the island that was used as a leper colony for many years. Could you do a video about that? Thanks! Hugs and head rubs,

Eric and Nibblet the Wonder Kitty

[AgentJayZ]

You're pretty wise... for a cat.

I've been lucky enough to camp by the ocean, and although I never put them into words, I believe I've felt all of your 13 points ...

while hearing the surf, seeing the sky and smelling the forest.

I have a new respect for imaginary cats.

[82abhilash]

And I am supposed to listen to a cat who hears voices from a rock. Oh boy.

[82abhilash]

Bathing in the ocean feels good. Bathing in salt water feels good? It will make your cat fur sticky.

[freepress666]

The oldest language in this reality is ( language of the light) It says the earth is the mother, only when her children learn her ways can you become like her, she is the giver of life with her sun (son) only through the sun can you be freed.

[speciesamused]

Rehab - Graffiti the World.

Ta.

[pongman]

Thank you Pinky for this informative video but I often wonder if perhaps the PKO are in essence destroying the island by bringing this island to everyone's attention. Will it be another Acapulco or Las Vegas? Even if they put in one toilet or sink on this island I can foresee the beginning of this island's total destruction. The bombings by the US was wrong but will the population that decides to live there be worse? Somehow I feel no one should live there but nature devoid of humans.

[RexNunc]

Who loves ya, Pinky

[Nokomoroko]

<3 :)

[marniespeaks]

cool

[Scoppertop]

The people on this planet must learn that ANYONE who:

-designs and/or manufactures bombs and weapons

-profits from deceit and usury

-offers monopolized services such as food, water, energy

-tells lies in order to control others' thinking

-takes bribes to accomplish all of the above

ARE mentally ill and should be institutionalized or jailed instead of being allowed to live in society.

[ReliableInsider]

But Dick Cheney needed the opportunity to be integrated into normal society so he could express himself creatively.

We can't just keep people like Dick Cheney locked up from the moment they begin exhibiting psychotic or homicidal tendencies.

[Scoppertop]

LOL... at least I hope that was supposed to be funny. In truth, these 'tendencies' can be recognized by 4th grade and appropriate therapy begun as early intervention.

[ReliableInsider]

I don't even know if I fully understand my own joke myself. It would probably take years of therapy.

I've been traumatized by the Bush administration. And I'm probably not the only one.

I just hope we can return to a time when Christianity meant loving one another and patriotism meant striving to make America again as great as it once was.

[Scoppertop]

Even half the people that voted for Bush were traumatized! I wrote on another thread that the internet was the only true democracy on this planet, which proves that people will create equality and freedom when left to themselves. It's the 'authoritarian' types that want to interfere with net neutrality... If you haven't read it, Conservatives Without Conscience by John Dean has great insight into the workings of their movement, even as their numbers are dwindling. Thanks for writing back!

[ReliableInsider]

John Dean seems to be one of those Republicans who -has- a conscience.

I think Rush Limbaugh and Tom Delay and Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin have left a lot of Republican families feeling politically homeless.

I wish John Dean could be the "real leader of the Republican Party" and lead it in a healthy direction.

A direction based not on opposing anything any Democrat says including 'Please pass the salt?'

A direction not using perpetually smears in place of actual campaigning.

[ReliableInsider]

A positive direction.

My GRANDPARENT'S were Republicans. There must have been something good about it.

Corporations and political consultants have taken it over and destroyed it.

Maybe Barack Obama, as centrist as he is, should be the new leader of a new republican party.

He's not anti- anything. He is -for- working together as a nation to solve problems.

And Paul Wellstone can be the inspiration for a new Democratic Party, God rest his soul.

[Scoppertop]

I'm actually not a member of any party... I find them all too limiting. My parents were Republicans, but my Mom became more democratic in her old age... my poor Dad still watches FOX and listens to Rush Limbaugh, but then again, he voted for Kerry in 2004. I doubt he voted for Obama; some things never change. I think there's a difference between 'centrist' and being torn between wanting to do the right (correct) thing and pleasing the CFR bosses. Obama seems to be a little of both.

[ReliableInsider]

I think he's just Hawaiian.

He comes in with a fresh perspective and wants to take a new approach.

I don't think he has any kind of direct line to God, but Bush handed him a world of troubles and he's addressing them rationally one by one.

[Scoppertop]

Don't misunderstand... I think Obama's doing a great job with correcting Bush's miseries, and I voted for him! I only hope he will eventually flip off those CFR people and do what he really wants to do. One can see in his face that he truly has compassion for the non-fascist-enabling majority of Americans.

[ReliableInsider]

I feel as though some voters don't understand the difference between journalism and opinion. Or the difference between a columnist giving an opinion and a hack just parroting talking points that come straight from the RNC.

Or the difference between a hack parroting talking points and a professional spinmeister attacking one party in order to boost the other.

[ReliableInsider]

Or the difference between a spinmeister who identifies himself and has some validity versus an outright hatemonger who tries to destroy democracy by riling up voters into becoming angry mobs.

[ReliableInsider]

Since opinions are a dime a dozen, the only real productive member of society is the objective professional journalist who doesn't allow their personal biases slant their articles in any way and who believes that their job is to report the relevant facts accurately so that all sides can make use of them and so that democracy can function.

Those journalists are our eyes and ears.

We need to keep buying real newspapers if we want to save democracy.

[ReliableInsider]

This is making me depressed.

[medicinesocks]

lol! me too. but not the video... why are people so bummed out?

the pinky show is always uplifting, even if the issues raised are serious and of concern.

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

I completely agree with you medicinesocks. A communitarian education is an option and a good one. I don't know why people seem to think all there is on offer is state schooling or home school...

[homerbear46]

errr you ACTUALLY DO need "running" water...if it stays still it'll go stagnant... plumbing is what YOU meant

[DeoMachina]

Dear Pinky and Crew:

This was kinda trite. It's a shame really. :-\

[mcasual]

( cant help but think 'Kamakawiwoʻole ' ) :)

[chevkoch]

"Information is not knowledge."

"Our actions should grow out of the values we desire."

Well put and profound.

[phillyphan32992]

Yes, it's important to protect the environment. But it's also important to not be ruled by Nazis.

[nameofthepen]

Three cheers for the wise nation of cats!!

[ancestralblue]

Great video! Thanks for the share Nom!

[RichardRoy2]

1a. Fantastic. Not to diminish from the others, but I thought #12 and #13 were particularly interesting observations.

I see some of the commentors are complaining of racism over there. Sounds as though it would be a good place for us white folk to go so that we can gain a first hand experience to understand how black people, and other minorities, feel in a land where the majority mistreats and abuses you. Sharky734 doesn't seem to have the strength of character I've seen displayed...

[RichardRoy2]

2a. ...by some of those minorities, who come out of the experience and still hold a positive out look toward their fellow human being. To those who don't have that strength, you have my empathy, as, I don't know how my character would hold up. To those who have that strength, you get my deepest respect. To those like Sharky734; is it racism, or experience. If the flim-flam-man calls on you the second time, would you trust him?

[korwinblue]

Don't need running water? Ya, you go back to your cave, while I enjoy the high standard of living that took human beings 500,000 years to create you ungrateful cat!

[medicinesocks]

thanks. i want to echo what someone above said, really thanks for how much we learn from your videos. also to express dismay that some people can vent so much anger and racism and then wonder why people don't like their attitudes. who would hire a guy who cusses and puts things down all the time? having always wanted a camera to capture some of the magical things i see, or to tell stories with, i kinda forget sometimes to honor the invisible, the stories that can only be heard by our hearts.

[CiszHelion]

Mostly great video. :)

I don't agree with the part that promotes the simple life, because people died there. Like a lot. Horrible diseases, bad treatment of children, and the poor, and the old.

If you take a closer look at the traditional way the simple people (like for example we ourselves some years ago) lived, you will find some wisdom and a lot of ignorance. Hawaiian tradition is no different.

Oh, and I don't subscribe to the "religion is good" bit as well. ;)

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

She wasn't advocating simplicity in all aspects of life. A less bureaucratic form of education is good but so is medicine. And where did she say religion was good? Thinking some things are sacred is hardly religious...

[CiszHelion]

"We don't need running water" is a bit too much in my opinion. ;)

As less buereucratic form of education failed in the past. For example: "Choice" in reality means "parents choice". The result is usually that some children get no education, others get private teachers.

Maybe you are right about religion. I distrust people that like deep spiritualism, or see spiritualism as a sign for a group (e.g. the hawaiins) beeing composed of good people.

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

But she is absolutely right. We don't "need" running water. She's not saying we should do away with all our taps and live a life of pure asceticism, but merely pointing out how we think of things like gas and electricity as necessities when we managed without them before. They make things better but they're not necessities. And why does education boil down to parental education? I think your assessing things by your own cultural values rather than looking at things on their own terms.

[CiszHelion]

Running water, along with many other things like washing machines, reduce the ammount of work you have to do to keep your everyday buisness of survival up.

Just a few decades ago housewifes were spending their entire time on those things. Nowadays women can get an education and a job. I don't want to go back there, ever. :)

And parental education is what happens when you remove compulsory education.

Are you familiar with 18th century european education and working conditions?

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

I don't think you listened to what I said. I said it made our lives better, but that it isn't a necessity. If we couldn't survive without tap water the human race would have ended quite precipitously. And to say that parental education is what happens when you take away compulsory education is a complete false dichotomy. Anyone with wisdom to share can teach.

[CiszHelion]

I don't think you listened to what I said. ;)

I said I don't wanna go back. And I doubt you could force people back to cooking their clothes by hand or carrying their water. I don't see how "but they COULD survive for a while" constitutes a smart choice. :P

And historically, parental education was bad for children. Forcing parents to get their children off the farm work is what compulsatory education is all about. ;)

[givebirthathome]

If you read History of Education textbooks, forcing parents to get their children off the farm work, is NOT what compulsory education is about. It was about inculcating habits that suited people to be industrial laborers.

Presently, parental education is good for children. Studies show homeschooled children excel national norms slightly in academics and greatly in emotional health.

[givebirthathome]

See Holly Dodd video on youtube. Also "An Underground History of Education" ... 1/2 online free, written by NYS Teacher of the Year John Taylor Gatto

[CiszHelion]

Not exactly.

It was about getting children for the military that weren't allready so broken and sick that they could still hold a gun, and that were able to read a manual for a rifle. But that had to be achieved, as I allready mentioned, against the will of the parents, as they wanted to keep their workforce at their disposal. Industrial labor came much later.

[CiszHelion]

Please link me those studies. I doubt they will back up your reasoning, as they will probably only show that highly educated people are willing and able to train their children at a high cost. Afaik noone else can or wants to do that. "Choice" in education usually is an attempt of the rich and/or educated to keep the higher ranks to themselves and their offspring.

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

*sigh* No you still haven't listened. "I said I don't wanna go back". Neither do I! I'm saying we COULD go back and that we could live without these so called necessities. A necessity is something we could live without. We could live without running water. It wouldn't be very nice, but we could! And for god's sake, what does parental education have to do with anything!? I'm saying it's not just a choice between school or parents. Learning is much more organic than that.

[CiszHelion]

So we agree that the "simple life" promoted in this video is not a reasonable goal? (To high costs, for example loss of life expectancy etc..)

About education: The pinkyshow voiced concerns against institutionalized public education on several occaisions. They seem to reason that the state should not be allowed to force it's point of view on the children.

Problem is, whenever the state is not forcing, the parents force their point of view. The result is usually not very desirable.

[givebirthathome]

VP is right, its not just a choice between state or parents. As I pointed out in my comment that seems to have disappeared.. studies show that.homeschooled children in the US are superior academically and highly superior in emotional health. Your statement "whenever the state is not forcing, the parents force their point of view" is just personal bias.

RE your reply to me..schools were instituted for different reasons and at different times in the US and Germany.

[CiszHelion]

Sadly it is more simple than you think.

Parents choose for their children. They select the religion, diet, education, place of residence etc.. So if children learn from other people than their parents, guess who selected those others. ;)

Only if someone with a lot of power intervenes, parents choices are countered. Usually this ist the state. Can be a religious group sometimes too, or someone else with the ability to overpower the parents.

[CiszHelion]

You are right, I was talking about germany around 1800, and that's not everywhere. My mistake. :)

The struggle about how to educate children took different forms, but usually all involved groups had their own egoistic interests. And that includes the parents. Would you believe that parents send their children to lower level schools than their skills indicate in germany? And the higher level would be as free as the lower one. O_o

[medicinesocks]

there's a third possibility, that children in the context of communities in which they are known and loved can learnwhat they want and need to know, from parents and other mentors, from people their own age or younger, or by themselves and/or many combinations of these modalities. young humans are naturally curious, naturally brimming with potential that only wants encouragement and a little sunshine in which to flourish.

[CiszHelion]

That is sadly not true.

Some boys chose not to learn (I assume they think life in our societies is not worth it).

Also, children learn in the context of their communities what their parents want them to learn. Imo they get less choices that way. Or have you heard of children in conservative religious communities succesfully choosing to learn sex ed and darwin? ;)

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

"So we agree that the "simple life" promoted in this video is not a reasonable goal?"

To an extent yes, but we could do with simplifying many things in our society.

About education, your still setting up a false dilemma. It is not state vs parents. What I'm advocating is an education based on personal initiative. Sink or swim. I fully endorse Pinky's statement "you don't need class rooms or schools [or home schools] in order to have learning.

[CiszHelion]

I'm not setting up a false dilemma. Let me show you. :)

You are not promoting that a 6yo shall choose if he or she wants to learn to read, and likewise, you don't want to advocate that an 11yo can chose to abort school, right?

If you agree with me, I assume that you will want some sort of public school system that enforces this, right?

If you don't agree to those statements, would you admit that it is very likely that said 6yo and 11yo wont be making these choices, but their parents would?

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

It still is a false dilemma. In fact I don't think you know what that is because you actually reinforce the same binary thinking of parents vs state education: "I assume that you will want some sort of public school system that enforces this, right? If you don't agree to those statements, would you admit that it is very likely that said 6yo and 11yo wont be making these choices, but their parents would?"

You have given me a choice of state education and parents when other options are possible.

[CiszHelion]

I guess maybe you mix up "people that teach" and "people that decide who is allowed acces to the children". :)

It is ofc theoretically possible that more groups than the state and the parents decide about this, and you can demand my acknowledging this theoretical possibility. But to the best of my knowledge in reality this doesn't happen or happened. Maybe some strong cultural forces, like a religious group is sometimes involved. Not much better imo. ;)

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

"But to the best of my knowledge in reality this doesn't happen or happened" Silly thing to say. It happens all the time just not in your culture. You do realize the cultural parameters of the west doesn't hold for the rest of the world? Didn't you watch the video!? Kahoolawe is an example of a communitarian education, incorporating relatives, neighbors, peers and seniors. Just one example that is neither state or home schooling.

[CiszHelion]

Maybe you mix up "people that teach" and "people that decide who teaches".

I doubt that the parents on hawaii would permit their children to chose between creationism and darwinism freely, or between sex ed and abstinence. And they don't have to make that choice, because their community allready choose for them, right? ;)

Imo public education has the job to offer things to kids that parents would rather not have offered to their children.

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

"I doubt that the parents on hawaii would permit their children to chose between creationism and darwinism freely" The parents may not, but there is still the rest of Kahoolawe; the neighbors, peers and seniors, all representing different view points. Also, doubt all you want, that isn't evidence that their community doesn't work. And why exactly is the public education board more informed? They are still a fallible group of people who decide what you learn. Some are absolutely awful (eg Texas)

[CiszHelion]

Parents allow their children to freely choose on hawaii? Shurely not their religion? Culture? Diet? Ethical values? I would be very surprised if kids there have both many things to choose from and no strong control. Are there no controversities on hawaii? O_o

Peer influence may be the only exception here, and peers are very limited in their educational value. ;)

Public education is not automatically better, it just happened to be in most times and cultures I know of.

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

Furthermore, you assume that state education is not susceptible to parental control. I myself experienced this as I was stuck in a stifling institute that I wanted to escape from so I could study what was important to me. However my parents insisted on private schooling so I ended up with the worst of both worlds, parents choosing my education and a suppressive institution. Students should be in an environment where the only thing that is compulsory is learning; what they learn is up to them.

[CiszHelion]

No, ofc not.

I'm living in germany, where parents choose the school for their children all the time. They do a very bad job at it, over- or underestimating their kids according to what is needed for them to copy their parents. ("Hauptschule was good enough for your father!") :(

And what kids learn can not be up to them. The world demands certain skills (like reading and basic math); learn em or entirely fail. Sad but true.

[vicepresidentfru1tly]

" learn em or entirely fail." Almost exactly what I said, "sink or swim". Are we finally in agreement? And for the record I have never needed maths, ever! You've just shown that we have our own idea of what is relevant and necessary. If It wasn't for my time being wasted in maths classes I've never needed, I could have gained more useful skills. You say parents do a bad job in picking children's decisions, where I am living proof that institutions are no better.

[CiszHelion]

You use math all the time: Do you buy a 160g box of gummy bears for 2.49 or two 100g bags for 1.49? Aha! :P

"Sink or swim" as in "I deny any responsability for the kids that fail"? Maybe even "I blame the weak and poor for beeing weak and poor"? I don't agree with that at all, but you probably don't either, do you? ;)

In a world like ours I don't see a way around compulsatory learning with some compulsatory contents. There is ofc room for choices and improvement. :)

[givebirthathome]

CH you are expressing authoritarian viewpoints, and you're not backing them up with any facts. So, I'm going to add some and exit this discussion. One homeschooling family has had all their sons accepted to Harvard. Homeschooled teen Christopher Paolini wrote a BESTSELLER recently. I've personally heard homeschooled kids whose parents took them out after some schooling, talk about how much better it is to be at home.

I've lost my patience with this discussion.

[CiszHelion]

You are mistaken.

Many studies have shown that parents don't choose the best education for their children. Their main interest seems to be to turn them into copies of themselves. For example, even today, in german schools, parents without higher education deny their children higher education, even if their kids are gifted. Also, historically, and today, farming families with low education keep their children away from school to let them work.

Those are facts, like them or not. :)

[giftscome]

You are acting like a troll, and I frankly think you are lying, as you've shown no specific evidence of reading or personal experience in the educational field. Instead of wasting our time, you should be looking into your hostility to your parents, while no doubt adopting their ideology, which must have been the use of force...on you.

[CiszHelion]

Why your hostility?

I happen to study social science, have been taught about history of the educational system, happen to know a bit about pisa, iglu, and social selection in the german school system.

[CiszHelion]

I say that homeschooling is no sollution to the problems compulsatory public education. My main reason is, that it is mainly usefull for rich/educated people.

Check out the EPAA Vol.7 No.8 about homeschool students (1998).

Table 2.8 clearly shows the big difference between parents of homeschooled children and the american average. They have a higher education level.

And table 2.9 clearly shows the higher income of homeschooling families.

Does this back up my claim?

[CiszHelion]

So what to do if parents are keeping their children uninformed? Deny them sex ed? Teach them superstition or racism?

The only working counter I know is force, in the form of compulsatory public education. I agree with you that this is an agressive and restrictive method. Problem is, historically, and currently, in most cases and societies (go check for yourself) the result is still better than what parents choose.

[CiszHelion]

The people that use homeschooling fall into two mayor categories (dunno the %): One are the well educated parents, that want more for their children than the public system offers. Their efforts result in what is known as social selection (rich parents have rich kids). Maybe you are ok with that, I have a bad feeling here.

The other group is trying to avoid certain content for their kids. Usually sexuality and science (that is, a non-religious world view). I hope we agree this is a problem.

[giftscome]

You have no idea what you are talking about, and are just typing cliches. I personally know... a carpenter who is homeschooling, a transcriptionist who is homeschooling, and no, neither are religious fanatics.

But you are just showing pure intolerant bigotry, religious or not, STUDIES show homeschoolers are more well-adjusted.

As for rich parents having rich kids...statistics show the transmission of social class occurs in chidren who are schooled as well.

[CiszHelion]

I guess you see what you suggest as a "good way for variety" and "an excellent addition to the public system".

I say: Only the rich/allready educated benefit from this extra choice.

I agree that your (and our) public school system fails. So far you havn't convinced me that more freedon will change this.

[Yamamanama]

Too bad Eragon isn't any good.

[givebirthathome]

Lol, I think Eragon is pretty unreadably cardboard myself, but it does show the ability to put a sentence together, (which most schooled kids lack), and the will and understanding to market the book. Clearly it met the need for entertainment of many people, and that is what schooling is supposed to bring about..the ability to survive creatively and productively in the world.

[medicinesocks]

one critique of compulsory education i have is that it categorically fails most of the children it purports to be educating. huge numbers never make it all the way through, 75% of those who actually graduate in the usa are functionally illiterate, can't read a news article or fill out a job application. take away compulsory ed and you have, kids, like mine, who handily address their own need to become skillfull and successful adults. my job was not so much to teach as to get out of their way!

[CiszHelion]

You are probably assuming that all those three-jobs-at-minimum-fee single-parents whose children are failing in your current system will do magic once they get their children forced back upon them? ;)

75% is probably not true, 20% is much more like it, right? (Still much to high ofc.)

You are ofc totally right: Compulsatory education is only half the deal, that educations has to be good as well.

But sadly only rich and/or educated people benefit from any freedom of choice.

[SadSadDoomDay]

a very logical video and I think that you're right about everything you said on the video.

It's sad that the US should have took a place like that and used it for their own gain, especially seeing as their gain was war.

And I also hope that the island recovers. :D

[bundangbear]

I am so happy you are giving a strong voice to the atrocities that have happened, and are happening in Hawai'i. As part Akwesasne Mohawk myself, I am in full support of the indigenous people of Hawai'i.

[gdogvibes1]

finally a video!!!!!!!!!!:)

[desertWiz]

very thoughtful. I everyday life we have forgotten the meaning of sacred. We are disconnected from the big spiritual meaning of our existence.

[Miabalzitch]

loved the video. I have learned so much from you. :)

[oldhacks]

the pinky show is GOD!

[sharky734]

Thanks, Love the place. Just got back from the island of Maui. Just to dam expensive for me and they hate white people.

[mollydollyoxenfree]

I live on Maui. We hate stupid tourists, you're probably one of those.

Don't say things that are untrue.

[sharky734]

You just proved it you stupid fuck. I went there with a one way ticket and started looking for a job to live there. I went all over the fucking racist island and no one would even talk to me about work. Just kept getting shit like, go back to the main land. Don't listen to this prick. People shouldn't go there and watch them go under without our tourist money. Then i can watch youtube videos of you fucks starving. You don't deserve anything. Hyperinflation will destroy you anyway. dummy

[niiidar]

I can understand that. I often feel uncomfortable when I'm a tourist, so I try to be humble.

[Barnekkid]

They don't hate white people, they hate jerks. I know. I'm one of the "they."

[medicinesocks]

i'm personally kinda pink & white and i don't care for this guy's attitude. jerks think everybody but them is being a jerk. wonder what's really eating at him. the wise kitty said cultures that leave deadly bombs lying around are sick and need help. so it is with this sharky person and his words of hate and disrespect. he seems to be reaping what he has sown.

[ancestralblue]

People like sharky don't understand the Law of Attraction and you are quite right, he's reaping what he sows. He hates and disrespects, likely everywhere he goes, and that's what comes back to him. He's concocting a sad and miserable existence. Poor thing!

[bj616]

I believe what you say is true. I travel to Hawaii alot, just got back from a recent visit last weekend. I have been to the islands so many times I have lost count and I have never had a problem. I was even married in Hawaii many moons ago so I always have a good excuse to return.

[MulcheArcade]

great reporting pinky show, 5/5