Occupy Wall Street - Top 1% paying a 50% tax rate

[SuperLittleHelper]

This is funny, even trying to make an argument out of this. So 1% of the population amassed such an huge amount of money that they are paying effectively 50% of the taxes? what does that tell you about social equality ? LOL

[leocat99]

@SuperLittleHelper - actually, most people that make 50K or more are paying roughly 50% taxes when you factor in Federal, state, local, property, car tax, gas tax, sales tax, convenience tax, social security, FICA, and so on.... The bottom 49% pay basically 0 in taxes when you factor in the subsidies they receive. I suggest taxes be raised on the lower 49% and anybody who doesn't pay taxes doesn't vote.

[SuperLittleHelper]

@leocat99 to get an even more plutocratic system? you must be kidding.

anyway, i was talking about the absolute numbers. 1-2% of the population have amassed way too much money, so that they make up such a huge percentage of absolute numbers in paid taxes.

well, this system is collapsing in the next 2-10 years anyway.

[azfb8]

The actual rate using the 35% and 15% would be less than 50 because only a portion of their income is taxed at the additional 15%. I totally agree with the point you are making though. First off, the rich already carry a tremendous amount of the load. And secondly, it is unfair to expect people to pay a greater portion of their money so that people who give less of their money can get services that the rich don't even use.

[funincluded]

Another way in which your math is wrong:

-To get 15% + 35% = 50%, you must be reinvesting 100% of your salary.

ie:

100k (35%) + 10k (15%) ≠ 110k at 50%

You are a moron.

[HeavyMetalCanuck]

The US congress is corrupted by big corporations. There is ample evidence of this. See the 60 minutes interview with lobbyist Jack Abramoff, or the classification of pizza as a vegetable!

Your congress is a joke. It is bought by corporations which have grown so powerful that they run the country.

[deadheadlooser]

What doesn't make sense is I have two degrees and can't get a job at KFC- literally.

[leocat99]

@deadheadlooser - it doesn't help when we have a Marxist president scaring the crap out of any company that is in a position to hire.

[funincluded]

What do you mean "capital gains are from money that has already been taxed at 35%"?

[leocat99]

@funincluded - Let's say I am a millionaire hedge fund employee, and I'm in the 35% tax bracket. Let's say I earn $100,000 for my monthly pay. After uncle sam takes his share (35%) I am left with $65,000 (not including state, FICA, Soc security, property, sales, and the myriad of other taxes built into our daily lives. Now I have perhaps, $10,000 left to invest. If my investment increases and I hold it a year, I get taxed another 15% on that capital gain, 35 + 15 = 50.

[funincluded]

@leocat99

Ahahaha!

And the amount invested is a part of the basis. Not taxed.

[funincluded]

*note: capital GAIN tax.

The gain is taxed, not the whole amount invested + the gain.

X invests $10k, and he sells the property a year later with a 10% increase in value. That increase is taxed at the highly beneficial 15% rate.

The Top .1% make all of their money from capital gains. The billionaires pay 15%. If you were intellectually honest, you would have forgiven this guy's "5%" exaggeration, and honed in on the *merit* of his statement:

We have a regressive tax system

[leocat99]

@funincluded - Where did the 10K come from? Did he just say Abracadabra,here's 10G let's invest it and get a low tax rate. It came from income that was already taxed at 35%.

let's do the math again 35 + 15 = 50. And if he invests it and loses it all, oh well, easy come, easy go.

[funincluded]

@leocat99

DUDE, seriously?

12,000,000 yearly salary.

taxed as income rate of 35%.

10k of investment: has been taxed.

10% GAIN on 10k investment= 1k

THAT $1,000 GAIN IS TAXED. NOT THE 11,000K TOTAL. The initial 10k is NOT taxed twice.

Also, if he looses the investment- it's not "easy come easy go." He get's a loss deduction that can be applied to reduce the capital income for that year, as well as the following years.

You don't know wtf you are talking about.

[funincluded]

$100,000 for a monthly pay!

Jesus christ, that guy should be paying way more that 50%

...but that goes into tax policy. If you can't grasp the mechanics, I highly doubt you can appreciate the more complex policy

[leocat99]

@funincluded - he is.

The President of my company makes over $3 Million a year, I make less than $100K in a whole year. Am I jealous of him? no. can I do his job? no. do I have much more free time than him? yes. do I have much less stress than him? yes. Is he attached to a blackberry 24/7? yes. Am I as smart and well educated as him? no. Can I hire over 500 employees like him? no. Do I have 30 yrs exp creating a service people want? no.

Why are you jealous of Rich job creators?

[funincluded]

@leocat99

As I expected, your understanding of policy is worse than that of the tax system itself.

OWS is not 'jealous' of "job creators." They are not chanting "WE WANT TO BE RICH." They are aggravated about the way in which the wealthy are able to influence legislation unfairly.

The wealthy are able to influence our laws by paying off politicians. Capitalism= good. Democracy= good. Buying politicians= bad.

[leocat99]

@funincluded - And another thing, the government tried raising taxes "way more than 50%" before. Roosevelt did it in the early 1930's. It had a minor negative repercussion called the Great Depression.

[funincluded]

@leocat99

raising taxes during a recession is bad, but during better times it isn't. It creates economic stability, despite what your shitty understanding of economics and tax has led you to believe.

Having a job doesn't justify your social ignorance. You failed at even arguing against YOUR OWN hand-picked moron off the street. Pathetic, typical conservative: "I don't understand a god-damned thing of what I say, but I have a job, so I have legitimacy. The poor are lazy and undeserving."

[mrhoffame]

I don't understand how guys like this, who seems like a good hearted guy, wont play out the cause & effect of what he is asking. The effect of just raising taxes will not send more money to Washington. If I am a mutli billionaire and I sit back and see that you will tax me 200 mill here in the US or that same money/ business "address" over in another country only hits more for 100 mill. Where am I going to send my money. So you got your higher tax rate, but lost my 100 Mill in tax revenue.

[superthinker2011]

Taxes are a funny thing. See, they aren't clear. There are a number of taxes and fees collected along the way: income, property, sales, etc. And, depending how you look at it, you can make a case either way. One could be in terms of social justice and the other in terms of getting out what you put in. This debate can't be won, or really even argued intelligently by commoners. If you inherit money, should it be tax free? How about if you work your way up from nothing? Who pays for Iraq?

[leocat99]

@superthinker2011 - I like herman cain's 999 plan. This way there are no loopholes for anybody and the taxation is fair across all levels. The only things I would make exempt from this tax is food, clothing, and rent.

I worked my way up from nothing, it's hard, but doable, maybe not in the current anti-capitalist environment. Inheritence should not be taxed either, it was already taxed once, same with dividends & capital gains. That is double dipping.

[ArodWingfoot]

You gotta tell the guy those facts and then watch him stumble over himself for trying to justify the theft of someone else's money.

[mfrank165]

i sincerely doubt you have a degree in economics, because that isnt even where the hypocracy begins. everyone who earns capital gains pays the tax, not just the 1%, the top rate is 35%, and if you make around 68gs a year thats what you'll pay(at least until 2005), but if you look at the taxes of any corporate entity openly traded, you will easily see that they DO NOT pay 35%, the mean is more like 18%. so get a life. ps, the lower 47 pay all kinds of taxes, so dont start lying. just not income

[leocat99]

@mfrank165 - yes corporations s/b taxed @ 80% so millions more jobs can be outsourced.

[mfrank165]

@leocat99 and why should that be? who said that they should be allowed to outsource? we have the ability to conduct business as we see fit, if they want to outsource jobs then they can be forced to stop all business in the us. id love to see microsoft working in china without the protection of the united states, and see if the chinese dont scarf up all those pretty profits. same with india. good luck with the disinfo

[leocat99]

@mfrank165 - why? because its a free country for starters.

[mfrank165]

@leocat99 haha, well, ok then. im kinda getting bored trying to educate the ignorant but here goes... first, if you think this is a free country, then why do YOU pay any taxes at all?  youre making a non sensical argument. the intent was for THE PEOPLE to be free, not for profit organizations. the government has all the right in the world to regulate interstate commerce, which you should look up because there isnt enough space here. international commerce is not free. read a book troll

[leocat99]

@mfrank165 - you are very entertaining. Send me some more good stuff.

[mfrank165]

@leocat99 sorry, i dont have the time to give lessons, but i will supply you with some resorces. 1) u.s constitution, the supreme law of the land. 2) declaration of independance 3) articles of confederation 4) magna carta. hope this helps. good luck

[leocat99]

@mfrank165 - I agree constitution & declaration are a good place to start. If you and these people believe in these documents why are you carrying professionally made signs by the "party for socialism & liberation" signs that say "class warfare ahead" and flags featuring Che Guevara. These are not constitutional ideas,quite the opposite. Maybe you're wasting your time "educating" the wrong people.

[leocat99]

@mfrank165 - oh and another thing, go to the communist party usa website (cpusa dot org). They LOVE OWS! A ringing endorsement of the constitution I'd say. LOL!