For every negative truth about unions I'll give you three positive truths. If you don't want to be in a union get the hell out and let someone who appreciates unions have your job. The growth of unions made America that greatest nation on earth. The decline made America, well take a look around you. Then thank clowns like these whiners in this video. I can only imagine how much they'd be whining before unions.You need to compare unions to life without unions not utopia. This is corp propaganda.
I'm sure the people in this video like their 40 work weeks, and getting paid more than 10 cents an hour, or how about a safe working area... Well your welcome. People seem to forget that the reason these things are common practice in the work place are because of unions. Managment doesn't give it's workers these things becuase it's the nice thing to do, but because unions held their feet to the fire for them.
So.... what's the meaning of life? To compete with others and grab material goods or to live in brotherhood and simplicity? Dumb philosophical bent towards work, life and interrelationships in corporate culture.
Ok,this video is typical coporate crap they put out, it really depends on which union you belong to,but union members do live better...ok you work a $9 an hour job with poor benefits the CEO is making millions per year, Most unions are very open and willing to work with employers on contracts. Work union live better
A union can only negotiate from the current state. Everyone will resist change, specially if they lose money over it. Change is not painless or the best move in the short term because there will be resistance, but in the long term I would argue that its worth it to not see a slave in the mirror and knowing sons and daughters will have it better.
There are no guaranties for conflict,but you wont win or gain unless you try.
As a CWA (Communication Workers of America) union member - the union the people in this video are talking about - I can only say that I have never seen, or experienced anything like what these people claim. I make more money, have better benefits, have plenty of freedom, my shop stewards and union reps work hard and are reasonable. And if someone joined the union and sat on their ass and didn't do any work, they'd be harassed by fellow union workers, or simply fired anyway.
On strike for what? This is very one sided and portends the employer always has the best interest of the employee in mind. People don't strike over trivial things, rather major issues. A strike is a very last resort at attempting to resolve an isssue.
And here is another point made by the SEIU to show how good and upstanding union's are: from theblaze.com "Cockroaches, bugs, mold, and flies. These are just some of the props allegedly employed by the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) against the catering company Sodexo. Fed up with these tactics, and sabotage that apparently includes plastic cockroaches, Sodexo filed a lawsuit against the SEIU under the Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act."
to tasks that they have the ability to do. This is what I've seen in person. I hear tales of guys getting work because they know someone...and really, if you look at it, that's a problem that needs to disappear from both non-union and union jobs altogether. That's the frustrating part of any job; watching someone get all the perks because they're chummy with the owner/boss/manager etc while they may or may not have the skill sets. Thanks for your openess, btw :)
Apologies xtaxplayer about the minimum wage addition to my reply; I was a bit distracted by the news (watching events in Japan), and didn't notice that the minimum wage comment was from about 3 months ago.
@Alamandorious That is ok, I accept your apology. I make that same mistake on occasion, but since you brought it back up; What is the minimum wage for the Union you are in? I can't recall the union, I did a quick search and I couldn't find it. If I recall correctly it was construction, not sure if it was iron worker. Please let me know again, this time I'll make a better note of it.
That's tricky; wages depend on your 'experience level' (what 1-4 year apprentice, topping off with journeyman), and then there's a residential/light commerical rate, regular commercial, light industrial, and industrial modifers to the rates.
To be honest, and you'll probably laugh, I don't keep that good track of my hourly rate >.< When my next pay stub comes out (Thursday) I'll let you know what mine is anyway.
As for minimum wage, I thought we were talking non-union on that.
@Alamandorious It isn't that 'tricky' after all, why? Because minimum wage would be 'apprentice' wages in the non-union world. As well, the non-union world doesn't have different entry levels, such as 'regular/light commerical, 'regular commercial', 'light industrial' and so on. But, if we are to have an honest discussion on wages we should compare union wages to non-union wages from entry position to as high up as we could go. Possibly as high as the multi-million dollar man, Richard Trumpka.
@xtaxplayer The thing is, is that there are non-union shops that have higher hourly rates, at the same time there are some that are lower. The way you should look at it is the journeyman's hourly rate is the minimum per the environment he's working in.
Light commercial/residential is the lowest end, regular commercial is the mid point, light industrial slightly above commercial, and regular industrial the highest.
Apprenctices get a percentage of the journeyman rate.
Alright, as a third year apprentice at the top end (5000-6000 hours) I make 20.98 an hour in a regular industrial setting. Keep in mind there are non-union shops here that are both above that rate and below ^^ All apprentices, union or non, are entitled to raises based on their years here.
@Alamandorious I understand and agree there should be raises due to experience, my issue is with the union it is not experience that gives you the raise's it is time. $20.98 per hour is not great, I make $25.74 but in a different field all together (Network Engineer), just to be open in our discussion. When in the union, I started at a concrete plant 1 week after 'Paul'. he worked in the tool shed handing out tools, I built forms set cables, finish troweled. Cont:1...
If you can't do the code, then there's no way for you to have passed the test to get your journeyman status (that's run by the government, not the union), at least these days. Any non-working forman (as in handling all the major planning) that I've worked under has been required, by the contractor, to be able to do the job. The union has a list of people who have the required skillsets to be a non-working foreman. Working foremen organize the men and assign them (cont 2)
@Alamandorious ...Cont1: When it became time to be a lead (foreman), he got the position over me because 'he had seniority'. He didn't even know how to read blueprints, I had taken Blueprint drawing in college. The 'Shop Steward' told me to read the 'prints' for him and lay out the job's. No one can tell me that is putting the right person in the right position. Later I found out he was steeling magnet drill presses and equipment from the tool shed. I told the Steward CONT1A...
See, that's where you run into the same problem as everywhere else; people will put people they like in positions that they may or may not be qualified for. That problem exists everywhere, union or non. As for the time thing, you don't hit the maximum rate until you reach journeyman status, and by then you should have most, if not all of the basic skill sets you need, the most important of which is the knowledge and ability to interpret the Canadian Electrical Code (cont)
@Alamandorious..CONT1A: I was moved to a low form and he kept on working, with a new 'set-up man'. I also later as an Ironworker in the union was shop steward and on the negotiations team, during 'neg training' I saw information that was against my belief's in America. I had to make a decision, and I left the Union after 18 years. I will not work with any group that works towards socialism/communism. It's the leadership, not the individual members. But the members are the unknowing force.
I can't speak for that communism/socialism thing, but I think we can both agree that 90% of the time when we elect people in any leadership role that, even if it's not at first, they tend to start looking out for themselves. This is why we have outsourcing, or people getting work they shouldn't...in the end, it's because humanity needs to grow up collectively as a whole and get away from the cave mentality; don't sacrifice personal freedoms, but don't hurt others in the process.
@Alamandorious I would have to agree that human's are weak, and one of their weaknesses is greed. As you so accurately put it, after a time, whether while attaining the position or after they get the greedy "what is in it for me" mentality otherwise known as the screw the people, how rich/powerful can I get off these fools. The problem I have is what you hit squarely on the head, 'don't sacrifice personal freedoms'. Freedoms is what the union's take from the people, just like any government.
See, I haven't had the experience personally. Since joining the union, aside from butting heads a few times inter-personally with a few people (you get that anywhere, though), my experiences have been nothing but positive. I've been able to do -more- since joining the union than I couldn't; maybe my local is just that different. I get all kinds of extra training (I want to say free, but my dues likely help pay for it) that help me become a better electrician.
@Alamandorious I would hope that every person in the union doesn't have these issues. That would be as possible as every person going into Burger King would eat a Burger. I am glad it has helped you. But the leadership is what the issue we/I have been discussing. Look at this past weekend. Steve Lerner director of SEIU's banking and finance campaign to break Wall Street, he also is involved with unions and groups across the globe, Europe, S. America, Spain and Canada has been recorded... CONT 1
@Alamandorious Cont 1: in a secret meeting explaining details of the May plan to destabilize the country of the U.S.A. Steve Lerner has been caught in Nov 2010 spending Millions of Union money to create and organize this plan. The early steps have started in New York and Pennsylvania, $3,000,000.00 in commercial's and newspaper ad's starting his plan to blame government and capitalists as stealing 17 trillion dollar's directly from American middle and lower class. This is terrorism, correct?
@Alamandorious As to the hourly wage on your check. Trust me I understand. My wife was just asking me what my hourly wage was, and I didn't know either. I will be reading that this Thursday as well. I'll talk to you later.
@xtaxplayer Seems to be a common affliction then lol.
When you said minimum wage, I initially thought you meant the government determined minimum wage, which is going up to $10 dollars an hour here in my home province soon. Note that union rates aren't going up at the same time; we negotiated our contract recently, so we're locked in until next contract negotiation...a few years from now.
Experience speaks loader than the bull shit corporate propaganda to take away its workers rights. In a non Union job you can get fired for anything, no matter if you are a good worker or not. They tell you how much you are to get paid, give you shitty health coverage, etc. When my company lost the Union everything went down hill. Moral was down, productivity was low, lost our paid vacations and incentives, our great health coverage was replaced with a shitty one.
I doubt these people in this video have ever worked for a Union. This is just the same Anti-Union bullshit video that places like Wal-Mart shows its new hires. I have worked for a Union, and it was great. As long as I did my job, and did it right, I had no fear of losing my job. My medical coverage was awesome, had 2 weeks paid vacations a year, and I could accumulate up to a month with 6 years working. Lazy employees were fired, productivity was high along with morale.
@xtaxplayer so said Eisenhower: "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted." Labor remains the only organized voice against corporate oligarchy- that is the true danger.
@askwhyz Eisenhower was against the Union's and when pushed refused to allow the union into the public sector. Tell me this, is it right to falsify documents to take day's off from work? Is it right to stop the education of the children the Union say's it stands for? Is the union 'pro American' as it claims when it stands with the 'EZLN' (Latin American Marxist's) or the "PLS' (Communist group)? Are they pro American?
Your union leadership is out to destroy America are you for or against that?
@xtaxplayer I'd love to hear the specific circumstance you're referring to with respect to Eisenhower's opposition of public sector unionization. As a Republican that does not surprise me- Im not alleging Eisenhower was a trade unionist, merely he shares many trade unionists concerns about what is "destroying America" and busting its budget- military spending and neo-fascist elimination of civil liberties, just as this is a concern rightly shared by trade unionists and Tea Party activists alike.
@askwhyz You do realize that the 'neo-fascist elimination of civil liberties' that you talk about, were the push for income tax on the average American, and the loss of right's. Like the 'right' to work, which the union squashes everyday. I am glad to see that the Governor of Wisconsin didn't back down and the 'bill' passed. Now the State can 'shop' around for more affordable health care for the public sector employees. CONT' 1...
@askwhyz CONT 1..We've had enough of paying to fatten someone else's wallet. Namely Socialist unions out there striking. Look at who they stand with, Marxist Latin American Party, Socialist Party Unite, PLS (communist party), SDS (communist led college student's) sadly these kids are just 'useful idiots' and others. I am hoping you are not a useful idiot. That you can see the direct and take a stand for the United States Constitution and the real American Dream, which is not collective anything.
@xtaxplayer Re: teachers, unions are often the only force against warehousing children in classrooms. See Detroit. Charters boost their numbers by excluding the worst performers. Similarly nurses are the last resort to dangerous nurse:patient ratios. If you are getting chemo, do you want your nurse rushing through your dosage so she can meet her quota? Re: what's "pro American"/"destroy America", far too contentious terms for any rational debate. How about not cutting corp. taxes instead?
@askwhyz You do realize, in fact the education system has down turned in the level of knowledge American children have to that of the rest of the world. We were number 1 in the world up until the teacher's union was formed and it has dropped constantly from then to now. Let us see Detroit, the model for the social welfare act, it has become much like a third world country then an American city. CONT 2..
@askwhyz CONT2..Empty collapsing homes/building's the fire bombing each year to burn more of the city, heard of 'hell night'? Don't try to use Detroit for any thing but a picture of socialism's failure. Don't attempt to use Nurses and medical care. I have many family members in the medical field, doctor's, nurses. Union's in Medical facilities across the country forced walk outs in the '90's leaving patient's on chemo without medications. What you think we don't remember yesterday.
@xtaxplayer My mom is a nurse and yes not all nurses want unions- the point is it should be their choice if they do or not, and when they do they often bargain for working conditions which include workloads which have a direct impact on patient care. You can always pull out an example of a strike (where was this?) but the fact is care is a day-in/day-out process, not as visible as a once-in-10-yr. strike but the ability of unions to negotiate better conditions for patients and children matters.
@askwhyz You are absolutely correct, My wife and sister should have a choice of whether they want to be in the union or not. My wife has that choice at her Hospital, but my sister does not. You see my sister works in a union hospital, it became union after she started there. Her choice was to either join the union or leave. Sounds like the union cares for all workers, huh? What B.S., ask the laid off union workers that have been out of work over 3 months, when the dues are stopped, union's gone!
@xtaxplayer Re: stolen time, no that's not right and no union I know or have worked for would sanction such behavior. Again do you have an actual example or just implying that unions lead to that? Unions have a due process obligation to ensure any such allegations are truthful, but once that's established no way in hell is a union is going to go to the mat for members stealing public money. Re: "commies"- that old line? AFL/CIO LONG ago purged its ranks via loyalty oaths during 1950s red scare.
@askwhyz You know I can't show personal case information of union members, nice try. Andy Stern former head SEIU 1996-2010, Richard Trumpka head of AFL-CIO, I didn't know these guy's where in the 1950's? Andy Stern working with the World Labor Organization, held 'communist' strikes in the United States in '60's. He illegally used $65,000,000 to run campaign headquarters against Bush (2004), was the whole union anti-Bush? A leader in the Shadow Party, (see Sorros). I will continue if needed?
@xtaxplayer If it is illegal why didn't Justice sue them after 2004? The SEIU has a separate political fund that members VOLUNTARILY donate to and can withdraw from at any time. I don't know about the whole union being anti-Bush, but I'd say Bush was wholly anti-union. Sorros is one billionaire versus multiple billionaires that back the Republican corporate agenda. There is no such thing as the World Labor Organization- there is an International Labor Organization which was founded after WWI.
@askwhyz You just answer my question on which side you are on, with your acknowledgment of your belief in Sorros. A Jewish boy in Hungary who sided with the Nazi's to take Jewish peoples positions and to help lead them to the Gas chamber and execution camps. Read his writing's and hear his speaking engagements and you will see he is a firm believer still in the fascist/socialist belief's of the Nazi German's in WWII. Now that I know were you come from I understand your hatred of our Republic.
@xtaxplayer Please do not manipulate my words: "Soros is one biollionaire versus multiple billionaires" - i.e. he is IRRELEVANT vis-a-vis, e.g. the Koch bros or the Waltons, to take just six examples of the billionaires who support a corporatist political agenda. Never accuse me of hate: I love my country and the people in it which is why I cannot stand it being manipulated in this way. You defend the same people that defrauded you, me, and all American taxpayers to the tune of $7 trillion.
@askwhyz Yes he's 1 billionaire. 1 that collapsed the British economy. 1 that funds the socialist, Huffington Post, IDS, move-on.org, and others but I'm not wasting space on them. You realize the people that defrauded us are the people your union backed. Clinton, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters and Obama to say a few. Bush is no angel either, but Gore and Kerry are worse. I'm sick of both sides screwing the people. You say you're American then don't side with anti-American socialists
@xtaxplayer what we should be asking is what President Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address in 1960 when he was worried that as President and the leader of the largest military force ever assembled, he could still not get Congress to cut a single military program. It sounded a lot like what the labor leader Samuel Gompers said Labor wants: more schools and less jails; more books & less arsenals; more learning and less vice; more leisure & less greed; more justice & less revenge
@askwhyz Yes they as well sounded good on paper. Samuel Gompers like all power hungry leaders was in fact building an oligarchy you complain about. He wanted to and did create an aristocracy of labor, a trade union trust, as it were, indifferent to the needs of the rest of the workers outside of the organization. His leadership in the 'AFL' (from 1881-1924, 1881 -'86 it was the FOTL) is part of the reason we are in trouble today. Over priced production pushes you out of the market place.
@xtaxplayer I would be more concerned by the $44,000 PER HOUR we spend to keep one F-22 raptor in the air that we don't need (but pay for anyway as corporate welfare to Lockheed Martin & United Technologies) than the 5% matching funds for union pension benefits. Why are we begrudging people their hard-earned pensions? Do we begrudge CEOs & managers their fat pensions when they retire w/100% of their bloated salary? Do we begrudge the fact that the top 10% of our society has kept all that wealth?
@askwhyz You are foolish to try to push this debate towards the military, especially in this climate of turmoil around the globe we live in today. But, it is nice to see a union drone putting down his union brethren. You do understand those planes cost that much partly due to the high priced 'union labor' that build's them correct? When I worked in the ship yards I was making $52.00 an hour, this was back when minimum wage was what 4.15,(I'm not sure of minimum wage I never earned it).
@xtaxplayer is all part of our history, and part of democracy. Even today it is the unions and the labor movement in Egypt that were the final blow necessary to take down the Mubarak regime. It is unions in South Africa that were the only true overt organized resistance against apartheid (ANC had to stay underground). Unions helped overthrow dictatorships- both communist and capitalist- in Poland, in South Korea, in the Phillipines, and in Chile. Sure you can have abuses of power, but for me...
@askwhyz How foolish you are, we're not a democracy. This is your failure, you know not where you come from and you are easily mislead. We're a REPUBLIC, and we wonder why 'teachers are out of school striking in Wisconsin. They don't even teach our history, math, or english. No wonder you are so off track.
Wrong Unions did not overthrow dictatorships in Poland and South Korea. Look throwing out lie's as union leaders do doesn't make them facts, but it does destroy any trust in your thoughts.
@xtaxplayer Yes if you want to be nit-picky- Republics are also democratic forms of government. It is a historical FACT that the Polish trade union Solidarnosc was the first successful oposition to the communist regime in Poland- led to first free elections in Aug '89 which elected a Solidarnosc slate- Berlin Wall fell 2 mo. later. Re others google COSATU and KCTU if you don't believe me. Like you I study history and none of this info comes from my union I'd appreciate not being called a liar.
@askwhyz My family was/is from Poland, my Uncle new Lech Walesa. He came to our home in the 1990's. Solidarnosc (Solidarity) wasn't a 'union' It was the christian people and then over 10,000,000 people in Poland that wanted their freedom's and rights. If that is the same as your union, then how come they didn't have dues? These people actually help to feed, clothes, and shelter each other from the Communist party that tried very hard to break them up. I don't believe I call you a lair.
@xtaxplayer My Polish friends who grew up under communism would strongly disagree- Solidarnosc certainly WAS a union & did fight for freedom. Obviously a union that is illegal in the state in which it functions can't have dues check-off as it is a social movement in active resistance to the state. Its demands were political as well as economic b/c it was the only group sufficiently powerful to resist state repression- our unions began as mutual self-help movements before most were bureacratized.
@askwhyz So what you are saying then, to be clear, when two people join together for the same end it is equal to the union that a person has to sign document's gaining access to a group and is charged money on a monthly or weekly basis? Nice try, put a union of people, like a wedding, or a college hockey team is not the same in meaning or actuality as a due charging labor union. I'm not trying to be rude, but you do understand the definition of a union as in the SEIU right?
@xtaxplayer whether or not they were Christian has nothing to do with it- but that being said the Pope obviously did play a role as well, and the Catholic Church also inspired the Polish workers to resist as it has long been a supporter of the rights and dignity of workers, and unions believe it or not. Just because one is a union supporter does not make one Godless communist revolutionary as you seem to imply.
@askwhyz I never said the union membership, nice try though. Its easy to see that you're 1 of the socialist's in the union trying to bring down the country. My only hope is that the real union, the member's, see through people like you and clean up before it is too late! The Union leadership has side stepped the pro-American sentiment of the rank and file to side with communist's and socialist's. The AFL-CIO even has the communist fist as its symbol, look at the 1920's, 30's Russian/Nazi signs.
@xtaxplayer the important thing a union provides is the right to be heard. The right to a hearing if you are fired unjustly, the right to a seat at the table, the right to vote on your working conditions, the right to speak your opinions freely without being retaliated against. The IWW that you railed on earlier helped establish the right to free speech in Spokane Washington in the 1920s because they tried to outlaw their complaints about itinerate workers being cheated out of their wages...
@askwhyz Wrong again every legal person in the United States has the right to be heard, except in the union. If you disagree you are berated or attacked. If you are outside the union you are spat on or beaten. The only rights people in America do not enjoy are involving the union. At least let us be honest here, or is it your point to constantly lie? IWW, free speech? You mean the free speech guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution in 1791? That's before 1920, you know that right? What is itinerate?
@askwhyz The Bill of Rights provides you with a 'right' to be heard. The right to a hearing if you were unjustly fired. What right to a seat at the table? When was the last time you sat at the table with Owners or on negotiations? Do you have the 'right' to work? If you do it doesn't cost you anything to do so, ie: union dues. Please don't use the word 'rights' in the wrong context. Also do not use the words "American Dream' incorrectly either. CONT 1
@askwhyz CONT 1 You mean The same group whose leader 'Bill Hayward' ran to Communist Russia when the law was coming after the 'wobblies' after they murdered the former Governor Frank R. Steunenberg of Idaho, a Policeman (John G. Morrison) and his little boy in a grocery store in Salt Lake City? Yup, your union is in good company siding with the IWW. I am glad you study history, we all should. Do you not see how bad socialism and communism are for the people? They are leading your movement.
@xtaxplayer so it is important to realize that while it was a signature achievement in human history, it is not a perfect document nor completely free from the inherent injustices embodied in the interests of its drafters and their place in society at the time. We needed a civil war, the 19th Amendment and the civil rights movement before it delivered on the Preamble's promise to establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility and promote the general Welfare and secure the blessings of Liberty...
@askwhyz Ah but it is a most perfect document for the rights and freedoms of the individual over the masses, and I see this is where you and the union have utter most disdain for it. Show were the injustices are in the Constitution. I shall forewarn you that I am a Constitutional Scholar through education not just, as you, I live in America. The Civil War was to stop the seceding of the south, again the public school system fails you. I must continue here due to limited space CONT 1...
@askwhyz CONT 1: Why did we need the 14th, 15th and 19th Amendments when property, ( 50 pieces of silver or property valued at this minimum amount), owners always had the right to vote. Wentworth Cheswell a 'black' patriot who fought in the revolution and was elected to office 7 different times in New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Abigail Adams held office in Massachusetts as well. So woman and minorities had the right to own property and vote as long as America was here. Try reading CONT 1a...
@askwhyz CONT 1a: Only ignorance of individual rights allows people to be duped into believing they don't have those rights. Progressives in the late 1800's figured this out and started to rewrite history. This exploded in 1913 through '47, but actual history books still hold the truth. Realize that until the 1860's black, white, men and women attended mass and worked side by side in most of America including the south? Also Harriet Tubman was married to a 'free' black man in the South right?
@xtaxplayer This is a misinterpretation- YES blacks and women could own property and hold public office- that is not the same as the right to vote. YES there were free black men in the South, but any free black man faced a prima facie suspicion of being an escaped slave- they were not secure in their person & effects. But there does also exist a right of states to secede- implicitly recognized by the (unsuccessful) post-Civil War constitutional amendment to eliminate that right.
@xtaxplayer the right to form a union is an individual right- the right of the individual to freely associate in an organized fashion with their fellow co-workers and choose their representatives in the workplace, just as we as voters choose our representatives in Congress- that is an imperfect analogy but the concept is the same- no single individual can elect someone to political office- it is only their collective manifestation of their political will that gives that choice meaning and power
@xtaxplayer as for the Constitution I still admire it to this day as a revolutionary document that is foundational to democracies everywhere. But it also reduced individuals to property, allowing them to be tortured maimed or killed at the whims of their masters. It allowed the slave trade until 1808. It excluded all women, all workers and men without property. Some still hold that the bill of rights doesn't apply to state laws (only to law passed by Congress - "Congress shall pass no law...")
@askwhyz If you admirer the Constitution so much why is it that you do not understand it is not based, nor did the framer's want it to be, on democracy. They, as well as those educated in government, know that a democracy is a failed form of government. Its a government that removes the 'rights', much like the union, of the individual person. Right's that are guaranteed in the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation and U.S. Constitution. This is why they founded a Republic.
@xtaxplayer I worked for a union and nobody I defended who slept on the job or stole money got their job back. We refused to move forward with a grievance for a woman who stole $0.25 from a bank tray who had 25 years on the job, because theft is a terminable offense and while we can argue that it was only $0.25, you take a grievance like that to arbitration and you will lose. It is also illegal for the union contirubute dues money to political candidates- members give that money voluntarily
@askwhyz I would love to believe that, but I've seen union workers that stole money from mail keep their jobs, using drug dependency, dragging out cases allowing them to continue work. I've also been involved with keeping union workers that were caught repeatedly sleeping in the bathrooms during work. Let's not pretend OK. On campaign funds that is a blatant lie, there's cases right know of union members bringing charges on the union for using their money to help people they don't want to fund.
@xtaxplayer I was a union representative that defended workers who filed grievances. So I am speaking of my own experience which is true and fact- just as you speak from yours, and I am not questioning the legitimacy of yours or calling you a liar. YES they did lose their job for stealing $0.25 and YES those who slept on the job were open-and-shut cases for me. And maybe you did see that- ultimately it depends on the case, on the union and the employer and on the people involved.
@askwhyz I am glad you stood for the right's of the capitalist's you seem to hate so. If all the union's were like that I would most likely still be a member. But, I know and I hope you can admit, they are not. Question; how is it the union rallies on 2/26 and 27 of 2011 were requested by the ISO (Marxist organization) and you believe the union's are not subversive to the Constitution of the United States. Don't believe me, the rally leader's in Washington D.C. and Dallas admit openly to it.
@xtaxplayer I don't oppose capitalists- I oppose corporatists. There's a difference. My brother is an entrepreneur and there are thousands like him who are excluded from the marketplace b/c those "too big to fail" corporations can strangle and stomp all competition. We have socialism for the rich in this country and capitalism for the rest. ISO being a revolutionary Marxist organization may join in plenty of rallies, as do white supremecists with Tea Partiers. That does not make them the same.
@xtaxplayer and yes you're right, not all unions are the same- there are good and bad just like there are good and bad corporations. Like the founding fathers I believe any over-accumulation of power should be mistrusted- if a union is too big it becomes undemocratic & its members (for whom it exists) lose effective control. The problem is corporations are so big that the only effective challenge, apart from a revolution (which I DONOT endorse) are org's of people powerful enough to resist them.
@xtaxplayer but you're incorrect in saying that child labor laws and 8-hour laws didn't come from unions- unions and the labor movement existed long before the Wagner Act made them legal in 1935. Int. Labor Day (May 1st) celebrates events in Chicago in 1886- the Haymarket Sq massacre where over a protesters were killed after rallying for the 8-hr workday. Ironic that the rest of the world celebrates this on May 1 but our country made labor day in September b/c they didn't want us to.
@askwhyz Child labor laws were being put into effect in the mid 1800's but by the Civil war they were asked to work again in the North. These labor laws were forcing many factories to move to the South were children were still allowed to work. These laws came before the union. The union picked them up to get more backing, as they do with the teachers today saying; "We do this for the children". When in fact they stop working and strike keeping those children out of school.
@xtaxplayer I appreciate your comments and trying to keep a civil debate and speak from your own experience, I respect that. I'll try to speak a bit from mine to dispel some of these rumors. You're correct to say that we don't live in a capitalist country- it's a corporatist country where we have socialism for the rich, and capitalism for the rest. Big biz. uses its influence on regulators to choke out any competition or entrepreneurship, and his up taxpayers for their own irresponsible gambling
@askwhyz We live in a Republic, there is only socialism by means of the union and greedy politicians that set up ponzi schemes and when they start to fall the politicians use our money to prop them up. As with all socialist, communist, and union parties they constantly need more money and more people coming in at all times to survive.
Ques: Why should I care for a Union that claims dignity for the people and just today yelled and shouted over the opening religious pray of the Indiana Capitol.
Ok, so the membership say's that the leadership isn't looking to push socialism/communism. Then why are we going to have these Union strikes in the spring and summer?? It is February 10th 2011. . . just to mark my words.
Say what you will, but time will tell. Then how can you still say you didn't know?
You need to look at the situation objectively. Are the companies involved stalling contract negotiations? My local was almost in a strike position because the companies here delayed contract negotiations well beyond the expiry of the current contract. That happens a lot, and that aspect of it isn't always covered by the media. Or, it could be that there's some point in the contract that the majority of the membership is really in favor of, or really against, (continued)
@Alamandorious The Union stalls negotiation's many times, I know because we were trained in how to do it. Complain they are not negotiating in 'good faith', use hot point's to get the negotiator's to walk or argue so you can walk away with it being 'their' fault.
You could have been blind to the direction of your leadership, but not any longer. Now that you know your will be just one of the scum trying to destroy the Constitution and create the socialist republic of America. Look at Wisconsin.
Can we try to keep all discussions on this video civil at least? Swearing and calling names isn't going to help any side of the argument. Intelligent debate may not yield results, but at least there will be a modicum of respect for both parties, even if we all have to agree to disagree.
@Alamandorious It isn't calling name's when the leadership is socialist, going to socialist events, winning socialist awards, and standing with socialists and now the Muslim Brotherhood. Maybe it have a discussion you should "fact check" this information first. I am here to help educate my former brothers and sisters. I have shown many examples of the socialist movement in the Union's. Look at Madison, the teachers union closes the schools, is that the students first? Your argument is old now.
@xtaxplayer Calling names? Which of my comments are you referring to. Also, you still use socialism as if it were communism, when they're two different things. Socialism is an economic system, where communism is full blown government. Canada, my country, is a socialist country, and I can safely say we have capitalism here.
Regardless, could you clarify which post you're referring to so I can answer properly :)
@Alamandorious This was you correct: 'Can we try to keep all discussions on this video civil at least? Swearing and calling names isn't going to help any side of the argument. Intelligent debate may not yield results, but at least there will be a modicum of respect for both parties, even if we all have to agree to disagree'. I answered you in an attempt to make sure you understood that 'I' wasn't name calling... I have to continue on the next frame due to size constraint's. . . . CONT 1:
@Alamandorious CONT 1:.. If you read Marx and Engels, the framers of communism you would know why socialism was designed and used, to get capitalism to communism. Read their works for yourself. Think I'm wrong go here and see who is behind the Wisconsin protest's and learn why. go to "theblaze dot com/stories/blaze-exclusive-international-anarchists-socialists-and-marxist-not-average-union-workers-have-a-substance-fueled-rave-while-taking-over-wisconsin-state-capital/"
@ConstitutionalTrust Oh no, it was earlier hostile comments that drew that out. I wasn't aiming it specifically at you or implying that I was insulted by you or someone else in any way. I just found it annoying that what should be a logical debate started resembling a sandbox fight.
Again, I'll have to deny that socialism is a direct path to communism, using my own country as an example. Canada is socialist, and we're a democracy. Socialism is an economic system, Communism is government.
I worked for a Union, and it was great. Yeah, it cost me $50.00 a month, but I had job security, and made more money with benefits. After the Union contract was up, and my employer fought the Union tooth and nail, we lost it. My employer laid everyone off, and rehired them back at half What we used to make, I went from $20.00 an hour to $11.00 .And the Health care coverage was shit.Lost my 2 week vacation, and sick time. I told that employer to shove it up his ass and I quit. UNION ALL THE WAY!
@grendel1013 That company will make it through this economy and will get more jobs for it's employee's.
No company or employee can survive charging more for a product then the market will bear. All union members claim unity, but who are you in unity with? Not the country, not the people in the country. You are in union with leader's that want to destroy the Republic and become more and more socialist which is the way to communism. Look at history and you will see the truth of your leadership.
@xtaxplayer Or the question goes both ways, who are you in unity with? The same corporate ass holes that would screw you over to save a nickle? The same corporate ass holes who drove this country into a recession?My unity is with the working class. The people who work hard to make record making profits for corporate ass holes and get very little to nothing in return. Don't forget, Unions made work places safer for employees, and gave them rights. I had great experiences with a Union.
@grendel1013 I am in unity with the American people and the Constitution. I know who you are in union with: Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN) a Marxist group from Mexico, the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) Socialist's, Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) a Marxist-Leninist party, Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) founded by Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were all at your union strike in Madison, Wisconsin. They were partying with the SEIU in the capital.
Obviously you don't have a clue about history. The Socialist party was called Socialist due to the fact that Socialims was a very popular concept in Europe during that time. Hitler, used Socialism to gain favor of the people, but in reality, he was a cold hearted Capitalist through and through. ( IBM did business with the Nazis as one example) Hitler supported private ownership, and wanted to dismantle the public Unions. There has never been a true Socialist country in history.
@grendel1013 ole' history master, who wrote of socialism and communism in the mid and late 1800's. Who are the 2 noted as being the father's of socialism and communism. You are not able to refute what is the history of socialism and communism if you do not know their originals and reasons for being. History lesson coming again, because people do not read what has happened in the conversation already. First the communist and socialist parties are in Wisconsin with the unions right now. Cont 3...
@grendel1013 Part 1: The terms socialism and communism in the Marxian system refer to STAGES that will occur. Socialism contains some vestiges of capitalism. One of the chief characteristics of capitalism is the means of production are not owned or controlled by the proletariat. The major change in the transition from capitalism to socialism is the business owners are removed as a group mostly killed. The proletariat now owns the means of production. Cont on Part 2
Mostly true, but killing employers is not a necessary for transition to Socialism. All because some nut said it is, does not make it true. Hitler, again, wanted to do away with labor Unions and give more power to the Capitalist owners. That is fact, Hitler stated he was Socialist, but his actions speak other wise. I bet you still believe Hitler was an Atheist as well. Maybe, you should pull your head out of Ronald Reagans ass.
@grendel1013 Then why does the SEIU's new union song "take the Bastard's down' 1) has this title 2) have a line 'take the boss, throw him to the ground, and beat him down'. You do know who the SEIU 'boss' is right? Also, do you find it OK that Union striker's use 'racist' statements against black and Jewish people questioning them, or a CWA union member hitting a young girl at a strike. I think Hitler used racism as well assault and threats to get results seems he's more on your team then mine.
@grendel1013 Part 2 However, under socialism, a remaining vestige of capitalism is that, economic activity is still basically organized through the use of incentive systems: rewards must still be given in order to induce people to labor. Communism, as written by Marx, emerges from the socialist economies. A communist economy is quite different from a socialist economy.
@grendel1013 People are no longer motivated to work for material incentives, and the social classes that existed under capitalism, and to a lesser extent under socialism, would disappear. Communism is a classless society in which the will to succeed has withered away. Under socialism, each person contributes to the process according to his/her ability and receives income according to his/her contribution; under communism, each contributes according to ability but consumes according to needs.
So, you are saying that getting paid by how hard you work, or what you know is a bad thing? In our current system, no matter how hard you work, you get paid the same as the next person. In Capitalism, you are not a unique flower, and you are easily replaced.
@grendel1013 That should get through to you. That was Karl Marx, by the way. You know the 'father' of communism. He drew the map for destroying capitalism and ending with communism. If you read in-depth on him you will also find out why he came up with this. I'll give you a clue, it was his success and work ethic that caused him to want to have everyone equal. Or in his words; 'Workers of the World Unite'
Now your veil of socialism/communism and the union is disappearing. Glad I could help.
@xtaxplayer Karl Marx, and the Communist Manifesto was a great book. It stated the Theories of Communism, and how it should work. Again, Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism all sound great on paper. Throw in a dictator, or a bunch of greedy Corporatist and all systems fail. Look at the U.S. Our system is failing, and any day our currency can lose its hold as the worlds standard. Thanks to corrupt politicians, both Democratic and Republicans, being in bed with the Corporatist fuckbags.
These people complain about strikes, funny. going on a strike is a right that any employee has to better there work environment, and for better benefits. Yeah I paid Union dues, but I had job security. Unless you royally fuck up, you don't have to worry about losing your job. I got paid more than a non Union place, and had better benefits. Corporations don't want Unions, because it hurts their profits. Well, tough shit.
@grendel1013 These people? Who are these people? Are you just trying to cover up for not answering. I like your perfect example of what I said earlier, your comment; 'I had job security. Unless you royally fuck up, you don't have to worry about losing your job'. This is exactly right, you can steal, sleep on the job, or just not work and the union will protect you. Mark this: That will not happen when your socialist/communist leaders get their way. I'm against taking the 'right to work' away.
@xtaxplayer You are so wrong, maybe you should get your facts straight before you post your stupidity. If you steal, or are lazy you will get fired in a Union. I have seen it happen plenty of times. Unless you fuck means unless you do what I just stated you are fine. Unlike non -Union work places where you can be fired at any time, for any reason, whether it is justified or not.
@grendel1013 Right . . . Oh wait I was one of the steward's that had to protect them from getting fired, so I know first hand. Your propaganda B.S. doesn't work here. Try finding out the truth, instead of being a dupe.
@xtaxplayer Part 1) Wrong. I used to be on the " I hate Unions" band wagon as well, until I experienced working for one myself. And on that I refuse to work for a Non-Union. Obviously, you must be on the same page as Hitler who wanted to do away with the worker Unions in Germany.
@xtaxplayer Unions are why we have workers rights, and Unions are why we have safer and better working conditions. Without Unions we would have children working in sweat shops, workers would make far less than they do now. Don't forget that the reason that you have access to medical coverage through your company, sick days, maternity days, etc is all due to Unions. And honestly, I don't see where Socialism and Unions have anything to do with each other.
@grendel1013 Again B.S.: 'Unions are why we have workers rights, and Unions are why we have safer and better working conditions' You are so full of the union B.S. it will be shocking when the truth comes crashing down on you. By the way child labor laws came before your union. Nice try though, try reading actual history it would enlighten you. Yet union's gave us healthcare, you are a fool. Healthcare insurance came from capitalism. There was money to be made. CONT: 2
@xtaxplayer You are wrong sir. Employer paid Health Care was a result of Unions. Health Care in the U.S is ranked the most expensive, and not necessarily the best either. Countries with Universal Health Care have higher life expectancies, and have lesser health issues than the U.S.
@grendel1013 Nice, but that would be like saying Henry Ford invented the car. You see employee paid health care was used in upper management from soon after the U.S. Constitution was ratified, as well the federal politicians had health care included in the 1820's. The union used this as tool to get more people to believe in them. They got the idea from the communist movement in Russia and Prussia, it is in the Marx letters. On better health care, break it down for us, because this is a falsity.
@grendel1013 CONT 2.. But you are correct if you mean the reason it is so costly is due to the union. You don't see what socialism and union's have to do with one another because you are union blind. All you union workers and others here, look at this person. He is exactly why your union leaders get away with what they do. Is this how you want to be thought of? As an uneducated person that believes anything his bosses tell them? I can only hope not, for the sake of our families and America.
Oh, btw, Socialism and Communism are two different things. Socialism means that the people run, and manage everything, we as a people protect and serve each other for the benefit of the whole. Think we live in a Capitalist country? Well we don't. In Capitalism a company that does not make it fails, you don't bail out a company with tax payer money. Socialism, Capitalism, and even Communism looks great on paper, throw in a dictator or a bunch of greedy corporatist, and it falls apart
@grendel1013 I would love to believe you, but the actual designer's of communism and socialism disagree with you. Maybe that is your problem, you listen to people instead of researching the information. But, then again that is why you make a 'good' union worker, and even though I moved up through the ranks to be shop steward and involved in negotiation's, but when I LEARNED THE TRUTH I LEFT. You see I'm an American, former military and I believe in the Constitution. Question really is DO YOU?
and so on. Socialist aspects of other countries that has all the same plus Universal Healthcare. France, Canada, Germany, Poland, England, to name a few, And their life expectancy is higher than ours, and their quality of life is better.
@grendel1013 This B.S. talking point has been destroyed already in these post's. You clowns are ridiculous, you think these old tried lines can just be posted. Try reading. Police are not federal nor is Fire, libraries, transportation (even though you forgot that one). The Post Office is federal, but not socialist because it isn't a free service (you fool). Welfare is socialist, and look at the welfare model, Detroit (read your history), it is a complete and utter failure as is communism.
@xtaxplayer you aren't educated about it. Management has a working contract they work under....i.e. golden parachute. Unions keep a company honest. Management is like a virus, they go around to each company looking for a host to survive, when they suck out every penny they bail out and move on.
@beergut111 Oh, OK you are?? Now that's funny!! You just spill union talking points that have discussed at length here, and guess what they have been proven wrong time and again. The union removes the rights of the people. The union forces their way into an industry and then forces the people to pay to be able to make a living. This by the way is absolutely against a Republic and against the Constitution of the United States. When the union sucks the life out of a company it moves away forever !
Wow!! Ive never heard so much rubbish!! The first guy what a plonker !! Thats what Union are its not about politics communism or socialism... Its called collectivism people just sticking together to share in the greedy pigs money and are just trying to make their lives better whats wrong with that?... Is it to much to ask?
Interesting they all mention strikes and don't even mention what the strikes were... cant be that important..ah the old days treated like shite!! Wake up !!
@celticg01 Not very knowledgeable are ye'. Collectivism is socialism which is communism, try research it might help you to not look so ignorant. Read Marx and Engels, after all they are the designers of your collectivism.
I would like to point out the 'greedy pigs' in Madison Wisconsin, that say they put students first but walk out and close schools to fight for what adds up in real numbers to 12% not the 28% they are lying about. Whose the 'Greedy Pig' there?
Wow!! Ive never heard so much rubbish!! The first guy what a plonker !! Thats what Union are its not about politics communism or socialism... Its called collectivism people just sticking together to share in the greedy pigs money and are just trying to make their lives better whats wrong with that?... Is it to much to ask?
Interesting they all mention strikes and don't even mention what the strikes were... cant be that important..Wake up !!
@rickbar123 America has MORE union's and wages are up, that is one of the reason's job's are down, and benefits are still the same, you can opt in or opt out. HOW IS THE UNION FOR OPTING IN OR OUT.
JUST REMEMBER THE CEO's OF THE UNION and UNION LEADERSHIP ARE FINE. AS A MATTER OF FACT THEY JUST WON MORE AWARDS FROM THE COMMUNIST PARTY, THE SOCIALIST PARTY OF AMERICA and THE UNITED WORKERS PARTY (ANOTHER COMMUNIST ORGANIZATION) cool for the union membership isn't it??
I'm working on a solar farm being built in Ontario, Canada. The contractor is using unionized construction workers for the site...and you know what? We're ahead of scheduel, have far fewer broken panels and parts than the average, and have had all of 1 injury on site since the start 3 months ago.
The project manager, the owners, everyone in the company is more than happy with our work.
Funny how this company made the switch from non-union work to unionized work.
@Alamandorious What is the name of the job and where in Ontario, I would like to check it out? What union is it that is doing this project and the name of the company? By the way the Media is pro union so let us not twist the truth for the sack of your conversation.
It was under HB White Canada, at the solar panel farm just outside of St. Isidor (I think I'm spelling that right). The union was the IBEW, Local 586. I'm a member of Local 625 out of Nova Scotia. I'm sorry, my experiences with the media, at least on television, have been clearly anti-union. Maybe it's my area that's like that, but I've heard the same complaint elsewhere.
@Alamandorious HB White is the construction company, family owned and operated since 1947, that doesn't help me to see the solar farm and stat's you explained.
HB White is, yes, a very well established company. They used union labor from local 586 who, in turn, called out to other locals to help supplement said manpower. I can only relate what the site supervisor related directly to us, I can't point you at a specific website or information source. If I come across one, I'll be sure to post up a link for you.
I don't blame you for your misconceptions about unions as a whole; yes, there are crooked members, yes there are lazy members...but you get that EVERYWHERE, not just in unions. The media likes to portray unions as a collection of lazy good for nothings, people that don't want to work.
I invite you to compare the quality and safety of union work to non-union work, especially in construction. I'm willing to bet you'll find the statistics largely in favour of the unions.
@Alamandorious Ok, I'll go down this road with you. The Tunnel in Massachusetts, yes I was involved with this project. The cost was six (6) times the projected cost, why? Because Union labor 1) would go down the tunnel and pay cards all day three day's a week at a cost of $35.00 an hour per person. 2) Union labor stole material's enough that four I know personally built entire 5,000 sq ft homes with, (fixtures came from stolen equipment they sold). They knew they wouldn't be fired, "contract".
@Alamandorious Yes but do yo get Communist leaders everywhere as well? No. By the way I never spoke ill of the large portion of Union labor I, My father and Grandfather were members. It is the leadership and the lazy union labors that are at fault, and don't try to tell me most of them aren't corrupt. How large is this union of solar panel workers you have on this site. Also what percentage of Canadian workers are union?
@Alamandorious I'll speak from my experience working in union and non-union jobs with lazy and crooked people. Non-union houses the lazy and crooked get fired, unless they are family (which is rare). In union houses they go to the union rep. he/she fights for them, they keep doing as little as possible or keep stealing while this is going on. If it looks as though they well be fired, they then claim alcohol or drug abuse which gives them another year to work WITHOUT being fired. big difference!
Pure capitalism is largely to blame for this issue...all the american companies are looking for ways to make gaggingly huge profits, and from a business standpoint it makes sense to build your product in countries with laxer laws and no form of wage control.
Unions here in North America stopped that exploitation (if not stopped, then greatly reduced)...so the companies go elsewhere. Don't want that to happen? Talk to the government
@Alamandorious Safety? give me a break. Union Labor cry's safety when they don't want to work. Safety rules are OSHA, you see them around the job site. "Laxer laws"? Try this simple rule the lower the cost to due business the better it is for the business and the consumer. It still cost's companies less to build the product over seas and ship it here, than it does for the company to pay Union Labor cost's in this country. Think about what the Union has done to the average worker's job in America
Going back to the safety issue, I've worked non-union and union. Whenever given a chance, a good portion of non-union companies will ignore safety regulations to cut costs...providing cheaper aluminum ladders for electrical work, for example, when the laws clearly require ladders made from non-conductive materials.
Sending a man up on the prongs of a forklift, having said forklift lift the man up so he can reach a junction box, rather than getting a scissor lift again, against law
@Alamandorious Seriously?? You would go up a metal ladder against or on electrical wire's?? You're telling me that non-union foreman FORCE the workers to climb those ladder's. Yup, and Stalin didn't force peasants to dress in royal clothes, poured water on them turning them into frozen statutes. They wanted to do that right? You're the one that chooses. By the way on my way in to the office today a Union bridge crew WAS raising a worker up to the bridge. He was standing on the forks of the Lull.
@irondog433lv That could be soon with the leadership you have. They do not care for you at all, just look at their agenda, unless you are happy with becoming communist?
The problem I have with this bullshit is you make all Unions a part of your situation. You may be telling the truth about you situation, But I don't here the other side of the story. I am an Iron worker for the Union, and I wouldn't hang a piece of iron any other way. The Union brothers for the other trades ALL Love and respect there union, and will fight tooth and nail for them Including myself. I will battle and brawl at the drop of a hat for my Union. And so will all my brothers.
For every negative truth about unions I'll give you three positive truths. If you don't want to be in a union get the hell out and let someone who appreciates unions have your job. The growth of unions made America that greatest nation on earth. The decline made America, well take a look around you. Then thank clowns like these whiners in this video. I can only imagine how much they'd be whining before unions.You need to compare unions to life without unions not utopia. This is corp propaganda.
DrDangDOGGone 2 days ago
I'm sure the people in this video like their 40 work weeks, and getting paid more than 10 cents an hour, or how about a safe working area... Well your welcome. People seem to forget that the reason these things are common practice in the work place are because of unions. Managment doesn't give it's workers these things becuase it's the nice thing to do, but because unions held their feet to the fire for them.
staytheknight 2 weeks ago
So.... what's the meaning of life? To compete with others and grab material goods or to live in brotherhood and simplicity? Dumb philosophical bent towards work, life and interrelationships in corporate culture.
JoshMan522 1 month ago
unions suck, check out my anti-union vid
TheFleaParty 3 months ago
Ok,this video is typical coporate crap they put out, it really depends on which union you belong to,but union members do live better...ok you work a $9 an hour job with poor benefits the CEO is making millions per year, Most unions are very open and willing to work with employers on contracts. Work union live better
JeffJ1974 5 months ago 4
Union electrician, and proud of it !!!
migraine516 7 months ago 4
Keep picking the cotton guys.
At least you are only whipped once a day.
A union can only negotiate from the current state. Everyone will resist change, specially if they lose money over it. Change is not painless or the best move in the short term because there will be resistance, but in the long term I would argue that its worth it to not see a slave in the mirror and knowing sons and daughters will have it better.
There are no guaranties for conflict,but you wont win or gain unless you try.
Lobos222 7 months ago
As a CWA (Communication Workers of America) union member - the union the people in this video are talking about - I can only say that I have never seen, or experienced anything like what these people claim. I make more money, have better benefits, have plenty of freedom, my shop stewards and union reps work hard and are reasonable. And if someone joined the union and sat on their ass and didn't do any work, they'd be harassed by fellow union workers, or simply fired anyway.
zenmachinefilms 8 months ago 2
If your union sucks, you vote for a different union.
bddc201 9 months ago
On strike for what? This is very one sided and portends the employer always has the best interest of the employee in mind. People don't strike over trivial things, rather major issues. A strike is a very last resort at attempting to resolve an isssue.
hooandy 9 months ago
And here is another point made by the SEIU to show how good and upstanding union's are: from theblaze.com "Cockroaches, bugs, mold, and flies. These are just some of the props allegedly employed by the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) against the catering company Sodexo. Fed up with these tactics, and sabotage that apparently includes plastic cockroaches, Sodexo filed a lawsuit against the SEIU under the Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act."
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer (cont 2)
to tasks that they have the ability to do. This is what I've seen in person. I hear tales of guys getting work because they know someone...and really, if you look at it, that's a problem that needs to disappear from both non-union and union jobs altogether. That's the frustrating part of any job; watching someone get all the perks because they're chummy with the owner/boss/manager etc while they may or may not have the skill sets. Thanks for your openess, btw :)
Alamandorious 10 months ago
Apologies xtaxplayer about the minimum wage addition to my reply; I was a bit distracted by the news (watching events in Japan), and didn't notice that the minimum wage comment was from about 3 months ago.
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@Alamandorious That is ok, I accept your apology. I make that same mistake on occasion, but since you brought it back up; What is the minimum wage for the Union you are in? I can't recall the union, I did a quick search and I couldn't find it. If I recall correctly it was construction, not sure if it was iron worker. Please let me know again, this time I'll make a better note of it.
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer
That's tricky; wages depend on your 'experience level' (what 1-4 year apprentice, topping off with journeyman), and then there's a residential/light commerical rate, regular commercial, light industrial, and industrial modifers to the rates.
To be honest, and you'll probably laugh, I don't keep that good track of my hourly rate >.< When my next pay stub comes out (Thursday) I'll let you know what mine is anyway.
As for minimum wage, I thought we were talking non-union on that.
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@Alamandorious It isn't that 'tricky' after all, why? Because minimum wage would be 'apprentice' wages in the non-union world. As well, the non-union world doesn't have different entry levels, such as 'regular/light commerical, 'regular commercial', 'light industrial' and so on. But, if we are to have an honest discussion on wages we should compare union wages to non-union wages from entry position to as high up as we could go. Possibly as high as the multi-million dollar man, Richard Trumpka.
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer The thing is, is that there are non-union shops that have higher hourly rates, at the same time there are some that are lower. The way you should look at it is the journeyman's hourly rate is the minimum per the environment he's working in.
Light commercial/residential is the lowest end, regular commercial is the mid point, light industrial slightly above commercial, and regular industrial the highest.
Apprenctices get a percentage of the journeyman rate.
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer
Alright, as a third year apprentice at the top end (5000-6000 hours) I make 20.98 an hour in a regular industrial setting. Keep in mind there are non-union shops here that are both above that rate and below ^^ All apprentices, union or non, are entitled to raises based on their years here.
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@Alamandorious I understand and agree there should be raises due to experience, my issue is with the union it is not experience that gives you the raise's it is time. $20.98 per hour is not great, I make $25.74 but in a different field all together (Network Engineer), just to be open in our discussion. When in the union, I started at a concrete plant 1 week after 'Paul'. he worked in the tool shed handing out tools, I built forms set cables, finish troweled. Cont:1...
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer (cont)
If you can't do the code, then there's no way for you to have passed the test to get your journeyman status (that's run by the government, not the union), at least these days. Any non-working forman (as in handling all the major planning) that I've worked under has been required, by the contractor, to be able to do the job. The union has a list of people who have the required skillsets to be a non-working foreman. Working foremen organize the men and assign them (cont 2)
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@Alamandorious ...Cont1: When it became time to be a lead (foreman), he got the position over me because 'he had seniority'. He didn't even know how to read blueprints, I had taken Blueprint drawing in college. The 'Shop Steward' told me to read the 'prints' for him and lay out the job's. No one can tell me that is putting the right person in the right position. Later I found out he was steeling magnet drill presses and equipment from the tool shed. I told the Steward CONT1A...
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer
See, that's where you run into the same problem as everywhere else; people will put people they like in positions that they may or may not be qualified for. That problem exists everywhere, union or non. As for the time thing, you don't hit the maximum rate until you reach journeyman status, and by then you should have most, if not all of the basic skill sets you need, the most important of which is the knowledge and ability to interpret the Canadian Electrical Code (cont)
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@Alamandorious..CONT1A: I was moved to a low form and he kept on working, with a new 'set-up man'. I also later as an Ironworker in the union was shop steward and on the negotiations team, during 'neg training' I saw information that was against my belief's in America. I had to make a decision, and I left the Union after 18 years. I will not work with any group that works towards socialism/communism. It's the leadership, not the individual members. But the members are the unknowing force.
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer
I can't speak for that communism/socialism thing, but I think we can both agree that 90% of the time when we elect people in any leadership role that, even if it's not at first, they tend to start looking out for themselves. This is why we have outsourcing, or people getting work they shouldn't...in the end, it's because humanity needs to grow up collectively as a whole and get away from the cave mentality; don't sacrifice personal freedoms, but don't hurt others in the process.
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@Alamandorious I would have to agree that human's are weak, and one of their weaknesses is greed. As you so accurately put it, after a time, whether while attaining the position or after they get the greedy "what is in it for me" mentality otherwise known as the screw the people, how rich/powerful can I get off these fools. The problem I have is what you hit squarely on the head, 'don't sacrifice personal freedoms'. Freedoms is what the union's take from the people, just like any government.
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer
See, I haven't had the experience personally. Since joining the union, aside from butting heads a few times inter-personally with a few people (you get that anywhere, though), my experiences have been nothing but positive. I've been able to do -more- since joining the union than I couldn't; maybe my local is just that different. I get all kinds of extra training (I want to say free, but my dues likely help pay for it) that help me become a better electrician.
Alamandorious 10 months ago
@Alamandorious I would hope that every person in the union doesn't have these issues. That would be as possible as every person going into Burger King would eat a Burger. I am glad it has helped you. But the leadership is what the issue we/I have been discussing. Look at this past weekend. Steve Lerner director of SEIU's banking and finance campaign to break Wall Street, he also is involved with unions and groups across the globe, Europe, S. America, Spain and Canada has been recorded... CONT 1
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@Alamandorious Cont 1: in a secret meeting explaining details of the May plan to destabilize the country of the U.S.A. Steve Lerner has been caught in Nov 2010 spending Millions of Union money to create and organize this plan. The early steps have started in New York and Pennsylvania, $3,000,000.00 in commercial's and newspaper ad's starting his plan to blame government and capitalists as stealing 17 trillion dollar's directly from American middle and lower class. This is terrorism, correct?
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@Alamandorious As to the hourly wage on your check. Trust me I understand. My wife was just asking me what my hourly wage was, and I didn't know either. I will be reading that this Thursday as well. I'll talk to you later.
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer Seems to be a common affliction then lol.
When you said minimum wage, I initially thought you meant the government determined minimum wage, which is going up to $10 dollars an hour here in my home province soon. Note that union rates aren't going up at the same time; we negotiated our contract recently, so we're locked in until next contract negotiation...a few years from now.
Alamandorious 10 months ago
Experience speaks loader than the bull shit corporate propaganda to take away its workers rights. In a non Union job you can get fired for anything, no matter if you are a good worker or not. They tell you how much you are to get paid, give you shitty health coverage, etc. When my company lost the Union everything went down hill. Moral was down, productivity was low, lost our paid vacations and incentives, our great health coverage was replaced with a shitty one.
grendel1013 11 months ago
I doubt these people in this video have ever worked for a Union. This is just the same Anti-Union bullshit video that places like Wal-Mart shows its new hires. I have worked for a Union, and it was great. As long as I did my job, and did it right, I had no fear of losing my job. My medical coverage was awesome, had 2 weeks paid vacations a year, and I could accumulate up to a month with 6 years working. Lazy employees were fired, productivity was high along with morale.
grendel1013 11 months ago
Comment removed
grendel1013 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer so said Eisenhower: "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted." Labor remains the only organized voice against corporate oligarchy- that is the true danger.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz Eisenhower was against the Union's and when pushed refused to allow the union into the public sector. Tell me this, is it right to falsify documents to take day's off from work? Is it right to stop the education of the children the Union say's it stands for? Is the union 'pro American' as it claims when it stands with the 'EZLN' (Latin American Marxist's) or the "PLS' (Communist group)? Are they pro American?
Your union leadership is out to destroy America are you for or against that?
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer I'd love to hear the specific circumstance you're referring to with respect to Eisenhower's opposition of public sector unionization. As a Republican that does not surprise me- Im not alleging Eisenhower was a trade unionist, merely he shares many trade unionists concerns about what is "destroying America" and busting its budget- military spending and neo-fascist elimination of civil liberties, just as this is a concern rightly shared by trade unionists and Tea Party activists alike.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz You do realize that the 'neo-fascist elimination of civil liberties' that you talk about, were the push for income tax on the average American, and the loss of right's. Like the 'right' to work, which the union squashes everyday. I am glad to see that the Governor of Wisconsin didn't back down and the 'bill' passed. Now the State can 'shop' around for more affordable health care for the public sector employees. CONT' 1...
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@askwhyz CONT 1..We've had enough of paying to fatten someone else's wallet. Namely Socialist unions out there striking. Look at who they stand with, Marxist Latin American Party, Socialist Party Unite, PLS (communist party), SDS (communist led college student's) sadly these kids are just 'useful idiots' and others. I am hoping you are not a useful idiot. That you can see the direct and take a stand for the United States Constitution and the real American Dream, which is not collective anything.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Re: teachers, unions are often the only force against warehousing children in classrooms. See Detroit. Charters boost their numbers by excluding the worst performers. Similarly nurses are the last resort to dangerous nurse:patient ratios. If you are getting chemo, do you want your nurse rushing through your dosage so she can meet her quota? Re: what's "pro American"/"destroy America", far too contentious terms for any rational debate. How about not cutting corp. taxes instead?
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz You do realize, in fact the education system has down turned in the level of knowledge American children have to that of the rest of the world. We were number 1 in the world up until the teacher's union was formed and it has dropped constantly from then to now. Let us see Detroit, the model for the social welfare act, it has become much like a third world country then an American city. CONT 2..
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@askwhyz CONT2..Empty collapsing homes/building's the fire bombing each year to burn more of the city, heard of 'hell night'? Don't try to use Detroit for any thing but a picture of socialism's failure. Don't attempt to use Nurses and medical care. I have many family members in the medical field, doctor's, nurses. Union's in Medical facilities across the country forced walk outs in the '90's leaving patient's on chemo without medications. What you think we don't remember yesterday.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer My mom is a nurse and yes not all nurses want unions- the point is it should be their choice if they do or not, and when they do they often bargain for working conditions which include workloads which have a direct impact on patient care. You can always pull out an example of a strike (where was this?) but the fact is care is a day-in/day-out process, not as visible as a once-in-10-yr. strike but the ability of unions to negotiate better conditions for patients and children matters.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz You are absolutely correct, My wife and sister should have a choice of whether they want to be in the union or not. My wife has that choice at her Hospital, but my sister does not. You see my sister works in a union hospital, it became union after she started there. Her choice was to either join the union or leave. Sounds like the union cares for all workers, huh? What B.S., ask the laid off union workers that have been out of work over 3 months, when the dues are stopped, union's gone!
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer Re: stolen time, no that's not right and no union I know or have worked for would sanction such behavior. Again do you have an actual example or just implying that unions lead to that? Unions have a due process obligation to ensure any such allegations are truthful, but once that's established no way in hell is a union is going to go to the mat for members stealing public money. Re: "commies"- that old line? AFL/CIO LONG ago purged its ranks via loyalty oaths during 1950s red scare.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz You know I can't show personal case information of union members, nice try. Andy Stern former head SEIU 1996-2010, Richard Trumpka head of AFL-CIO, I didn't know these guy's where in the 1950's? Andy Stern working with the World Labor Organization, held 'communist' strikes in the United States in '60's. He illegally used $65,000,000 to run campaign headquarters against Bush (2004), was the whole union anti-Bush? A leader in the Shadow Party, (see Sorros). I will continue if needed?
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer If it is illegal why didn't Justice sue them after 2004? The SEIU has a separate political fund that members VOLUNTARILY donate to and can withdraw from at any time. I don't know about the whole union being anti-Bush, but I'd say Bush was wholly anti-union. Sorros is one billionaire versus multiple billionaires that back the Republican corporate agenda. There is no such thing as the World Labor Organization- there is an International Labor Organization which was founded after WWI.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz You just answer my question on which side you are on, with your acknowledgment of your belief in Sorros. A Jewish boy in Hungary who sided with the Nazi's to take Jewish peoples positions and to help lead them to the Gas chamber and execution camps. Read his writing's and hear his speaking engagements and you will see he is a firm believer still in the fascist/socialist belief's of the Nazi German's in WWII. Now that I know were you come from I understand your hatred of our Republic.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Please do not manipulate my words: "Soros is one biollionaire versus multiple billionaires" - i.e. he is IRRELEVANT vis-a-vis, e.g. the Koch bros or the Waltons, to take just six examples of the billionaires who support a corporatist political agenda. Never accuse me of hate: I love my country and the people in it which is why I cannot stand it being manipulated in this way. You defend the same people that defrauded you, me, and all American taxpayers to the tune of $7 trillion.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz Yes he's 1 billionaire. 1 that collapsed the British economy. 1 that funds the socialist, Huffington Post, IDS, move-on.org, and others but I'm not wasting space on them. You realize the people that defrauded us are the people your union backed. Clinton, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters and Obama to say a few. Bush is no angel either, but Gore and Kerry are worse. I'm sick of both sides screwing the people. You say you're American then don't side with anti-American socialists
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer what we should be asking is what President Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address in 1960 when he was worried that as President and the leader of the largest military force ever assembled, he could still not get Congress to cut a single military program. It sounded a lot like what the labor leader Samuel Gompers said Labor wants: more schools and less jails; more books & less arsenals; more learning and less vice; more leisure & less greed; more justice & less revenge
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz Yes they as well sounded good on paper. Samuel Gompers like all power hungry leaders was in fact building an oligarchy you complain about. He wanted to and did create an aristocracy of labor, a trade union trust, as it were, indifferent to the needs of the rest of the workers outside of the organization. His leadership in the 'AFL' (from 1881-1924, 1881 -'86 it was the FOTL) is part of the reason we are in trouble today. Over priced production pushes you out of the market place.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer I would be more concerned by the $44,000 PER HOUR we spend to keep one F-22 raptor in the air that we don't need (but pay for anyway as corporate welfare to Lockheed Martin & United Technologies) than the 5% matching funds for union pension benefits. Why are we begrudging people their hard-earned pensions? Do we begrudge CEOs & managers their fat pensions when they retire w/100% of their bloated salary? Do we begrudge the fact that the top 10% of our society has kept all that wealth?
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz You are foolish to try to push this debate towards the military, especially in this climate of turmoil around the globe we live in today. But, it is nice to see a union drone putting down his union brethren. You do understand those planes cost that much partly due to the high priced 'union labor' that build's them correct? When I worked in the ship yards I was making $52.00 an hour, this was back when minimum wage was what 4.15,(I'm not sure of minimum wage I never earned it).
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer is all part of our history, and part of democracy. Even today it is the unions and the labor movement in Egypt that were the final blow necessary to take down the Mubarak regime. It is unions in South Africa that were the only true overt organized resistance against apartheid (ANC had to stay underground). Unions helped overthrow dictatorships- both communist and capitalist- in Poland, in South Korea, in the Phillipines, and in Chile. Sure you can have abuses of power, but for me...
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz How foolish you are, we're not a democracy. This is your failure, you know not where you come from and you are easily mislead. We're a REPUBLIC, and we wonder why 'teachers are out of school striking in Wisconsin. They don't even teach our history, math, or english. No wonder you are so off track.
Wrong Unions did not overthrow dictatorships in Poland and South Korea. Look throwing out lie's as union leaders do doesn't make them facts, but it does destroy any trust in your thoughts.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Yes if you want to be nit-picky- Republics are also democratic forms of government. It is a historical FACT that the Polish trade union Solidarnosc was the first successful oposition to the communist regime in Poland- led to first free elections in Aug '89 which elected a Solidarnosc slate- Berlin Wall fell 2 mo. later. Re others google COSATU and KCTU if you don't believe me. Like you I study history and none of this info comes from my union I'd appreciate not being called a liar.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz My family was/is from Poland, my Uncle new Lech Walesa. He came to our home in the 1990's. Solidarnosc (Solidarity) wasn't a 'union' It was the christian people and then over 10,000,000 people in Poland that wanted their freedom's and rights. If that is the same as your union, then how come they didn't have dues? These people actually help to feed, clothes, and shelter each other from the Communist party that tried very hard to break them up. I don't believe I call you a lair.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer My Polish friends who grew up under communism would strongly disagree- Solidarnosc certainly WAS a union & did fight for freedom. Obviously a union that is illegal in the state in which it functions can't have dues check-off as it is a social movement in active resistance to the state. Its demands were political as well as economic b/c it was the only group sufficiently powerful to resist state repression- our unions began as mutual self-help movements before most were bureacratized.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz So what you are saying then, to be clear, when two people join together for the same end it is equal to the union that a person has to sign document's gaining access to a group and is charged money on a monthly or weekly basis? Nice try, put a union of people, like a wedding, or a college hockey team is not the same in meaning or actuality as a due charging labor union. I'm not trying to be rude, but you do understand the definition of a union as in the SEIU right?
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer whether or not they were Christian has nothing to do with it- but that being said the Pope obviously did play a role as well, and the Catholic Church also inspired the Polish workers to resist as it has long been a supporter of the rights and dignity of workers, and unions believe it or not. Just because one is a union supporter does not make one Godless communist revolutionary as you seem to imply.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz I never said the union membership, nice try though. Its easy to see that you're 1 of the socialist's in the union trying to bring down the country. My only hope is that the real union, the member's, see through people like you and clean up before it is too late! The Union leadership has side stepped the pro-American sentiment of the rank and file to side with communist's and socialist's. The AFL-CIO even has the communist fist as its symbol, look at the 1920's, 30's Russian/Nazi signs.
xtaxplayer 10 months ago
@xtaxplayer the important thing a union provides is the right to be heard. The right to a hearing if you are fired unjustly, the right to a seat at the table, the right to vote on your working conditions, the right to speak your opinions freely without being retaliated against. The IWW that you railed on earlier helped establish the right to free speech in Spokane Washington in the 1920s because they tried to outlaw their complaints about itinerate workers being cheated out of their wages...
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz Wrong again every legal person in the United States has the right to be heard, except in the union. If you disagree you are berated or attacked. If you are outside the union you are spat on or beaten. The only rights people in America do not enjoy are involving the union. At least let us be honest here, or is it your point to constantly lie? IWW, free speech? You mean the free speech guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution in 1791? That's before 1920, you know that right? What is itinerate?
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@askwhyz The Bill of Rights provides you with a 'right' to be heard. The right to a hearing if you were unjustly fired. What right to a seat at the table? When was the last time you sat at the table with Owners or on negotiations? Do you have the 'right' to work? If you do it doesn't cost you anything to do so, ie: union dues. Please don't use the word 'rights' in the wrong context. Also do not use the words "American Dream' incorrectly either. CONT 1
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@askwhyz CONT 1 You mean The same group whose leader 'Bill Hayward' ran to Communist Russia when the law was coming after the 'wobblies' after they murdered the former Governor Frank R. Steunenberg of Idaho, a Policeman (John G. Morrison) and his little boy in a grocery store in Salt Lake City? Yup, your union is in good company siding with the IWW. I am glad you study history, we all should. Do you not see how bad socialism and communism are for the people? They are leading your movement.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer so it is important to realize that while it was a signature achievement in human history, it is not a perfect document nor completely free from the inherent injustices embodied in the interests of its drafters and their place in society at the time. We needed a civil war, the 19th Amendment and the civil rights movement before it delivered on the Preamble's promise to establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility and promote the general Welfare and secure the blessings of Liberty...
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz Ah but it is a most perfect document for the rights and freedoms of the individual over the masses, and I see this is where you and the union have utter most disdain for it. Show were the injustices are in the Constitution. I shall forewarn you that I am a Constitutional Scholar through education not just, as you, I live in America. The Civil War was to stop the seceding of the south, again the public school system fails you. I must continue here due to limited space CONT 1...
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@askwhyz CONT 1: Why did we need the 14th, 15th and 19th Amendments when property, ( 50 pieces of silver or property valued at this minimum amount), owners always had the right to vote. Wentworth Cheswell a 'black' patriot who fought in the revolution and was elected to office 7 different times in New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Abigail Adams held office in Massachusetts as well. So woman and minorities had the right to own property and vote as long as America was here. Try reading CONT 1a...
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@askwhyz CONT 1a: Only ignorance of individual rights allows people to be duped into believing they don't have those rights. Progressives in the late 1800's figured this out and started to rewrite history. This exploded in 1913 through '47, but actual history books still hold the truth. Realize that until the 1860's black, white, men and women attended mass and worked side by side in most of America including the south? Also Harriet Tubman was married to a 'free' black man in the South right?
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer This is a misinterpretation- YES blacks and women could own property and hold public office- that is not the same as the right to vote. YES there were free black men in the South, but any free black man faced a prima facie suspicion of being an escaped slave- they were not secure in their person & effects. But there does also exist a right of states to secede- implicitly recognized by the (unsuccessful) post-Civil War constitutional amendment to eliminate that right.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer the right to form a union is an individual right- the right of the individual to freely associate in an organized fashion with their fellow co-workers and choose their representatives in the workplace, just as we as voters choose our representatives in Congress- that is an imperfect analogy but the concept is the same- no single individual can elect someone to political office- it is only their collective manifestation of their political will that gives that choice meaning and power
askwhyz 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer as for the Constitution I still admire it to this day as a revolutionary document that is foundational to democracies everywhere. But it also reduced individuals to property, allowing them to be tortured maimed or killed at the whims of their masters. It allowed the slave trade until 1808. It excluded all women, all workers and men without property. Some still hold that the bill of rights doesn't apply to state laws (only to law passed by Congress - "Congress shall pass no law...")
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz If you admirer the Constitution so much why is it that you do not understand it is not based, nor did the framer's want it to be, on democracy. They, as well as those educated in government, know that a democracy is a failed form of government. Its a government that removes the 'rights', much like the union, of the individual person. Right's that are guaranteed in the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation and U.S. Constitution. This is why they founded a Republic.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer I worked for a union and nobody I defended who slept on the job or stole money got their job back. We refused to move forward with a grievance for a woman who stole $0.25 from a bank tray who had 25 years on the job, because theft is a terminable offense and while we can argue that it was only $0.25, you take a grievance like that to arbitration and you will lose. It is also illegal for the union contirubute dues money to political candidates- members give that money voluntarily
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz I would love to believe that, but I've seen union workers that stole money from mail keep their jobs, using drug dependency, dragging out cases allowing them to continue work. I've also been involved with keeping union workers that were caught repeatedly sleeping in the bathrooms during work. Let's not pretend OK. On campaign funds that is a blatant lie, there's cases right know of union members bringing charges on the union for using their money to help people they don't want to fund.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@askwhyz When were you a steward? That is the only one that defends union workers in these issues.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer I was a union representative that defended workers who filed grievances. So I am speaking of my own experience which is true and fact- just as you speak from yours, and I am not questioning the legitimacy of yours or calling you a liar. YES they did lose their job for stealing $0.25 and YES those who slept on the job were open-and-shut cases for me. And maybe you did see that- ultimately it depends on the case, on the union and the employer and on the people involved.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz I am glad you stood for the right's of the capitalist's you seem to hate so. If all the union's were like that I would most likely still be a member. But, I know and I hope you can admit, they are not. Question; how is it the union rallies on 2/26 and 27 of 2011 were requested by the ISO (Marxist organization) and you believe the union's are not subversive to the Constitution of the United States. Don't believe me, the rally leader's in Washington D.C. and Dallas admit openly to it.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer I don't oppose capitalists- I oppose corporatists. There's a difference. My brother is an entrepreneur and there are thousands like him who are excluded from the marketplace b/c those "too big to fail" corporations can strangle and stomp all competition. We have socialism for the rich in this country and capitalism for the rest. ISO being a revolutionary Marxist organization may join in plenty of rallies, as do white supremecists with Tea Partiers. That does not make them the same.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer and yes you're right, not all unions are the same- there are good and bad just like there are good and bad corporations. Like the founding fathers I believe any over-accumulation of power should be mistrusted- if a union is too big it becomes undemocratic & its members (for whom it exists) lose effective control. The problem is corporations are so big that the only effective challenge, apart from a revolution (which I DONOT endorse) are org's of people powerful enough to resist them.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer but you're incorrect in saying that child labor laws and 8-hour laws didn't come from unions- unions and the labor movement existed long before the Wagner Act made them legal in 1935. Int. Labor Day (May 1st) celebrates events in Chicago in 1886- the Haymarket Sq massacre where over a protesters were killed after rallying for the 8-hr workday. Ironic that the rest of the world celebrates this on May 1 but our country made labor day in September b/c they didn't want us to.
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz Child labor laws were being put into effect in the mid 1800's but by the Civil war they were asked to work again in the North. These labor laws were forcing many factories to move to the South were children were still allowed to work. These laws came before the union. The union picked them up to get more backing, as they do with the teachers today saying; "We do this for the children". When in fact they stop working and strike keeping those children out of school.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer I appreciate your comments and trying to keep a civil debate and speak from your own experience, I respect that. I'll try to speak a bit from mine to dispel some of these rumors. You're correct to say that we don't live in a capitalist country- it's a corporatist country where we have socialism for the rich, and capitalism for the rest. Big biz. uses its influence on regulators to choke out any competition or entrepreneurship, and his up taxpayers for their own irresponsible gambling
askwhyz 11 months ago
@askwhyz We live in a Republic, there is only socialism by means of the union and greedy politicians that set up ponzi schemes and when they start to fall the politicians use our money to prop them up. As with all socialist, communist, and union parties they constantly need more money and more people coming in at all times to survive.
Ques: Why should I care for a Union that claims dignity for the people and just today yelled and shouted over the opening religious pray of the Indiana Capitol.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
Ok, so the membership say's that the leadership isn't looking to push socialism/communism. Then why are we going to have these Union strikes in the spring and summer?? It is February 10th 2011. . . just to mark my words.
Say what you will, but time will tell. Then how can you still say you didn't know?
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer
You need to look at the situation objectively. Are the companies involved stalling contract negotiations? My local was almost in a strike position because the companies here delayed contract negotiations well beyond the expiry of the current contract. That happens a lot, and that aspect of it isn't always covered by the media. Or, it could be that there's some point in the contract that the majority of the membership is really in favor of, or really against, (continued)
Alamandorious 11 months ago
@Alamandorious The Union stalls negotiation's many times, I know because we were trained in how to do it. Complain they are not negotiating in 'good faith', use hot point's to get the negotiator's to walk or argue so you can walk away with it being 'their' fault.
You could have been blind to the direction of your leadership, but not any longer. Now that you know your will be just one of the scum trying to destroy the Constitution and create the socialist republic of America. Look at Wisconsin.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
Can we try to keep all discussions on this video civil at least? Swearing and calling names isn't going to help any side of the argument. Intelligent debate may not yield results, but at least there will be a modicum of respect for both parties, even if we all have to agree to disagree.
Alamandorious 11 months ago
@Alamandorious It isn't calling name's when the leadership is socialist, going to socialist events, winning socialist awards, and standing with socialists and now the Muslim Brotherhood. Maybe it have a discussion you should "fact check" this information first. I am here to help educate my former brothers and sisters. I have shown many examples of the socialist movement in the Union's. Look at Madison, the teachers union closes the schools, is that the students first? Your argument is old now.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Calling names? Which of my comments are you referring to. Also, you still use socialism as if it were communism, when they're two different things. Socialism is an economic system, where communism is full blown government. Canada, my country, is a socialist country, and I can safely say we have capitalism here.
Regardless, could you clarify which post you're referring to so I can answer properly :)
Alamandorious 11 months ago
@Alamandorious This was you correct: 'Can we try to keep all discussions on this video civil at least? Swearing and calling names isn't going to help any side of the argument. Intelligent debate may not yield results, but at least there will be a modicum of respect for both parties, even if we all have to agree to disagree'. I answered you in an attempt to make sure you understood that 'I' wasn't name calling... I have to continue on the next frame due to size constraint's. . . . CONT 1:
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
@Alamandorious CONT 1:.. If you read Marx and Engels, the framers of communism you would know why socialism was designed and used, to get capitalism to communism. Read their works for yourself. Think I'm wrong go here and see who is behind the Wisconsin protest's and learn why. go to "theblaze dot com/stories/blaze-exclusive-international-anarchists-socialists-and-marxist-not-average-union-workers-have-a-substance-fueled-rave-while-taking-over-wisconsin-state-capital/"
The time to stop is now.
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
@ConstitutionalTrust Oh no, it was earlier hostile comments that drew that out. I wasn't aiming it specifically at you or implying that I was insulted by you or someone else in any way. I just found it annoying that what should be a logical debate started resembling a sandbox fight.
Again, I'll have to deny that socialism is a direct path to communism, using my own country as an example. Canada is socialist, and we're a democracy. Socialism is an economic system, Communism is government.
Alamandorious 11 months ago
I worked for a Union, and it was great. Yeah, it cost me $50.00 a month, but I had job security, and made more money with benefits. After the Union contract was up, and my employer fought the Union tooth and nail, we lost it. My employer laid everyone off, and rehired them back at half What we used to make, I went from $20.00 an hour to $11.00 .And the Health care coverage was shit.Lost my 2 week vacation, and sick time. I told that employer to shove it up his ass and I quit. UNION ALL THE WAY!
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 That company will make it through this economy and will get more jobs for it's employee's.
No company or employee can survive charging more for a product then the market will bear. All union members claim unity, but who are you in unity with? Not the country, not the people in the country. You are in union with leader's that want to destroy the Republic and become more and more socialist which is the way to communism. Look at history and you will see the truth of your leadership.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Or the question goes both ways, who are you in unity with? The same corporate ass holes that would screw you over to save a nickle? The same corporate ass holes who drove this country into a recession?My unity is with the working class. The people who work hard to make record making profits for corporate ass holes and get very little to nothing in return. Don't forget, Unions made work places safer for employees, and gave them rights. I had great experiences with a Union.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 I am in unity with the American people and the Constitution. I know who you are in union with: Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN) a Marxist group from Mexico, the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) Socialist's, Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) a Marxist-Leninist party, Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) founded by Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were all at your union strike in Madison, Wisconsin. They were partying with the SEIU in the capital.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer
Obviously you don't have a clue about history. The Socialist party was called Socialist due to the fact that Socialims was a very popular concept in Europe during that time. Hitler, used Socialism to gain favor of the people, but in reality, he was a cold hearted Capitalist through and through. ( IBM did business with the Nazis as one example) Hitler supported private ownership, and wanted to dismantle the public Unions. There has never been a true Socialist country in history.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 ole' history master, who wrote of socialism and communism in the mid and late 1800's. Who are the 2 noted as being the father's of socialism and communism. You are not able to refute what is the history of socialism and communism if you do not know their originals and reasons for being. History lesson coming again, because people do not read what has happened in the conversation already. First the communist and socialist parties are in Wisconsin with the unions right now. Cont 3...
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@grendel1013 Part 1: The terms socialism and communism in the Marxian system refer to STAGES that will occur. Socialism contains some vestiges of capitalism. One of the chief characteristics of capitalism is the means of production are not owned or controlled by the proletariat. The major change in the transition from capitalism to socialism is the business owners are removed as a group mostly killed. The proletariat now owns the means of production. Cont on Part 2
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer
'
Mostly true, but killing employers is not a necessary for transition to Socialism. All because some nut said it is, does not make it true. Hitler, again, wanted to do away with labor Unions and give more power to the Capitalist owners. That is fact, Hitler stated he was Socialist, but his actions speak other wise. I bet you still believe Hitler was an Atheist as well. Maybe, you should pull your head out of Ronald Reagans ass.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 Then why does the SEIU's new union song "take the Bastard's down' 1) has this title 2) have a line 'take the boss, throw him to the ground, and beat him down'. You do know who the SEIU 'boss' is right? Also, do you find it OK that Union striker's use 'racist' statements against black and Jewish people questioning them, or a CWA union member hitting a young girl at a strike. I think Hitler used racism as well assault and threats to get results seems he's more on your team then mine.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@grendel1013 Part 2 However, under socialism, a remaining vestige of capitalism is that, economic activity is still basically organized through the use of incentive systems: rewards must still be given in order to induce people to labor. Communism, as written by Marx, emerges from the socialist economies. A communist economy is quite different from a socialist economy.
Cont Part 3...
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@grendel1013 People are no longer motivated to work for material incentives, and the social classes that existed under capitalism, and to a lesser extent under socialism, would disappear. Communism is a classless society in which the will to succeed has withered away. Under socialism, each person contributes to the process according to his/her ability and receives income according to his/her contribution; under communism, each contributes according to ability but consumes according to needs.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer
So, you are saying that getting paid by how hard you work, or what you know is a bad thing? In our current system, no matter how hard you work, you get paid the same as the next person. In Capitalism, you are not a unique flower, and you are easily replaced.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 That should get through to you. That was Karl Marx, by the way. You know the 'father' of communism. He drew the map for destroying capitalism and ending with communism. If you read in-depth on him you will also find out why he came up with this. I'll give you a clue, it was his success and work ethic that caused him to want to have everyone equal. Or in his words; 'Workers of the World Unite'
Now your veil of socialism/communism and the union is disappearing. Glad I could help.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Karl Marx, and the Communist Manifesto was a great book. It stated the Theories of Communism, and how it should work. Again, Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism all sound great on paper. Throw in a dictator, or a bunch of greedy Corporatist and all systems fail. Look at the U.S. Our system is failing, and any day our currency can lose its hold as the worlds standard. Thanks to corrupt politicians, both Democratic and Republicans, being in bed with the Corporatist fuckbags.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer
These people complain about strikes, funny. going on a strike is a right that any employee has to better there work environment, and for better benefits. Yeah I paid Union dues, but I had job security. Unless you royally fuck up, you don't have to worry about losing your job. I got paid more than a non Union place, and had better benefits. Corporations don't want Unions, because it hurts their profits. Well, tough shit.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 These people? Who are these people? Are you just trying to cover up for not answering. I like your perfect example of what I said earlier, your comment; 'I had job security. Unless you royally fuck up, you don't have to worry about losing your job'. This is exactly right, you can steal, sleep on the job, or just not work and the union will protect you. Mark this: That will not happen when your socialist/communist leaders get their way. I'm against taking the 'right to work' away.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer You are so wrong, maybe you should get your facts straight before you post your stupidity. If you steal, or are lazy you will get fired in a Union. I have seen it happen plenty of times. Unless you fuck means unless you do what I just stated you are fine. Unlike non -Union work places where you can be fired at any time, for any reason, whether it is justified or not.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 Right . . . Oh wait I was one of the steward's that had to protect them from getting fired, so I know first hand. Your propaganda B.S. doesn't work here. Try finding out the truth, instead of being a dupe.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Part 1) Wrong. I used to be on the " I hate Unions" band wagon as well, until I experienced working for one myself. And on that I refuse to work for a Non-Union. Obviously, you must be on the same page as Hitler who wanted to do away with the worker Unions in Germany.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Unions are why we have workers rights, and Unions are why we have safer and better working conditions. Without Unions we would have children working in sweat shops, workers would make far less than they do now. Don't forget that the reason that you have access to medical coverage through your company, sick days, maternity days, etc is all due to Unions. And honestly, I don't see where Socialism and Unions have anything to do with each other.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 Again B.S.: 'Unions are why we have workers rights, and Unions are why we have safer and better working conditions' You are so full of the union B.S. it will be shocking when the truth comes crashing down on you. By the way child labor laws came before your union. Nice try though, try reading actual history it would enlighten you. Yet union's gave us healthcare, you are a fool. Healthcare insurance came from capitalism. There was money to be made. CONT: 2
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer You are wrong sir. Employer paid Health Care was a result of Unions. Health Care in the U.S is ranked the most expensive, and not necessarily the best either. Countries with Universal Health Care have higher life expectancies, and have lesser health issues than the U.S.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 Nice, but that would be like saying Henry Ford invented the car. You see employee paid health care was used in upper management from soon after the U.S. Constitution was ratified, as well the federal politicians had health care included in the 1820's. The union used this as tool to get more people to believe in them. They got the idea from the communist movement in Russia and Prussia, it is in the Marx letters. On better health care, break it down for us, because this is a falsity.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@grendel1013 CONT 2.. But you are correct if you mean the reason it is so costly is due to the union. You don't see what socialism and union's have to do with one another because you are union blind. All you union workers and others here, look at this person. He is exactly why your union leaders get away with what they do. Is this how you want to be thought of? As an uneducated person that believes anything his bosses tell them? I can only hope not, for the sake of our families and America.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer
Oh, btw, Socialism and Communism are two different things. Socialism means that the people run, and manage everything, we as a people protect and serve each other for the benefit of the whole. Think we live in a Capitalist country? Well we don't. In Capitalism a company that does not make it fails, you don't bail out a company with tax payer money. Socialism, Capitalism, and even Communism looks great on paper, throw in a dictator or a bunch of greedy corporatist, and it falls apart
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 I would love to believe you, but the actual designer's of communism and socialism disagree with you. Maybe that is your problem, you listen to people instead of researching the information. But, then again that is why you make a 'good' union worker, and even though I moved up through the ranks to be shop steward and involved in negotiation's, but when I LEARNED THE TRUTH I LEFT. You see I'm an American, former military and I believe in the Constitution. Question really is DO YOU?
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer Socialist services ib the U.S.
1) Police
2) Fire departments
3) Public schools
4) Public libraries
5) U.S postal service
6) the Welfare system, wic, sect.8, etc.
and so on. Socialist aspects of other countries that has all the same plus Universal Healthcare. France, Canada, Germany, Poland, England, to name a few, And their life expectancy is higher than ours, and their quality of life is better.
grendel1013 11 months ago
@grendel1013 This B.S. talking point has been destroyed already in these post's. You clowns are ridiculous, you think these old tried lines can just be posted. Try reading. Police are not federal nor is Fire, libraries, transportation (even though you forgot that one). The Post Office is federal, but not socialist because it isn't a free service (you fool). Welfare is socialist, and look at the welfare model, Detroit (read your history), it is a complete and utter failure as is communism.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
unions are the best thing to happen to a company. Otherwise management is also know as congress.
beergut111 1 year ago
@beergut111 Unions are the best thing to happen for communism.
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer you aren't educated about it. Management has a working contract they work under....i.e. golden parachute. Unions keep a company honest. Management is like a virus, they go around to each company looking for a host to survive, when they suck out every penny they bail out and move on.
beergut111 11 months ago
@beergut111 Oh, OK you are?? Now that's funny!! You just spill union talking points that have discussed at length here, and guess what they have been proven wrong time and again. The union removes the rights of the people. The union forces their way into an industry and then forces the people to pay to be able to make a living. This by the way is absolutely against a Republic and against the Constitution of the United States. When the union sucks the life out of a company it moves away forever !
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
Wow!! Ive never heard so much rubbish!! The first guy what a plonker !! Thats what Union are its not about politics communism or socialism... Its called collectivism people just sticking together to share in the greedy pigs money and are just trying to make their lives better whats wrong with that?... Is it to much to ask?
Interesting they all mention strikes and don't even mention what the strikes were... cant be that important..ah the old days treated like shite!! Wake up !!
celticg01 1 year ago 2
@celticg01 Not very knowledgeable are ye'. Collectivism is socialism which is communism, try research it might help you to not look so ignorant. Read Marx and Engels, after all they are the designers of your collectivism.
I would like to point out the 'greedy pigs' in Madison Wisconsin, that say they put students first but walk out and close schools to fight for what adds up in real numbers to 12% not the 28% they are lying about. Whose the 'Greedy Pig' there?
xtaxplayer 11 months ago
Wow!! Ive never heard so much rubbish!! The first guy what a plonker !! Thats what Union are its not about politics communism or socialism... Its called collectivism people just sticking together to share in the greedy pigs money and are just trying to make their lives better whats wrong with that?... Is it to much to ask?
Interesting they all mention strikes and don't even mention what the strikes were... cant be that important..Wake up !!
celticg01 1 year ago
HEY AMERICA !!! HOW YA DOING WITH FEWER UNIONS ????? WAGES UP OR DOWN ????? HOW ABOUT THOSE BENIFITS, GOT ANY ?????
JUST REMEMBER, THE CEOs AND WALL STREET ARE JUST FINE !!!!!
rickbar123 1 year ago 2
@rickbar123 The CEOs and "Wall Street" must have a really good union?
mart83648 1 year ago
@mart83648 Plenty of worker protection for that crew.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 America has MORE union's and wages are up, that is one of the reason's job's are down, and benefits are still the same, you can opt in or opt out. HOW IS THE UNION FOR OPTING IN OR OUT.
JUST REMEMBER THE CEO's OF THE UNION and UNION LEADERSHIP ARE FINE. AS A MATTER OF FACT THEY JUST WON MORE AWARDS FROM THE COMMUNIST PARTY, THE SOCIALIST PARTY OF AMERICA and THE UNITED WORKERS PARTY (ANOTHER COMMUNIST ORGANIZATION) cool for the union membership isn't it??
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
@ConstitutionalTrust I am not a stupid fuck tea bagger, fuck off stupid ass. Holy shit, that's the worst propaganda I ever saw.
rickbar123 11 months ago
@ConstitutionalTrust John Wayne belonged to the Unions.
rickbar123 11 months ago
@taxplayer
I'm working on a solar farm being built in Ontario, Canada. The contractor is using unionized construction workers for the site...and you know what? We're ahead of scheduel, have far fewer broken panels and parts than the average, and have had all of 1 injury on site since the start 3 months ago.
The project manager, the owners, everyone in the company is more than happy with our work.
Funny how this company made the switch from non-union work to unionized work.
continued...
Alamandorious 1 year ago
@Alamandorious What is the name of the job and where in Ontario, I would like to check it out? What union is it that is doing this project and the name of the company? By the way the Media is pro union so let us not twist the truth for the sack of your conversation.
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
@ConstitutionalTrust
It was under HB White Canada, at the solar panel farm just outside of St. Isidor (I think I'm spelling that right). The union was the IBEW, Local 586. I'm a member of Local 625 out of Nova Scotia. I'm sorry, my experiences with the media, at least on television, have been clearly anti-union. Maybe it's my area that's like that, but I've heard the same complaint elsewhere.
Alamandorious 11 months ago
@Alamandorious HB White is the construction company, family owned and operated since 1947, that doesn't help me to see the solar farm and stat's you explained.
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
@ConstitutionalTrust
HB White is, yes, a very well established company. They used union labor from local 586 who, in turn, called out to other locals to help supplement said manpower. I can only relate what the site supervisor related directly to us, I can't point you at a specific website or information source. If I come across one, I'll be sure to post up a link for you.
Alamandorious 11 months ago
@xtaxplayer
I don't blame you for your misconceptions about unions as a whole; yes, there are crooked members, yes there are lazy members...but you get that EVERYWHERE, not just in unions. The media likes to portray unions as a collection of lazy good for nothings, people that don't want to work.
I invite you to compare the quality and safety of union work to non-union work, especially in construction. I'm willing to bet you'll find the statistics largely in favour of the unions.
Alamandorious 1 year ago
@Alamandorious Ok, I'll go down this road with you. The Tunnel in Massachusetts, yes I was involved with this project. The cost was six (6) times the projected cost, why? Because Union labor 1) would go down the tunnel and pay cards all day three day's a week at a cost of $35.00 an hour per person. 2) Union labor stole material's enough that four I know personally built entire 5,000 sq ft homes with, (fixtures came from stolen equipment they sold). They knew they wouldn't be fired, "contract".
xtaxplayer 1 year ago
@Alamandorious Yes but do yo get Communist leaders everywhere as well? No. By the way I never spoke ill of the large portion of Union labor I, My father and Grandfather were members. It is the leadership and the lazy union labors that are at fault, and don't try to tell me most of them aren't corrupt. How large is this union of solar panel workers you have on this site. Also what percentage of Canadian workers are union?
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
@Alamandorious I'll speak from my experience working in union and non-union jobs with lazy and crooked people. Non-union houses the lazy and crooked get fired, unless they are family (which is rare). In union houses they go to the union rep. he/she fights for them, they keep doing as little as possible or keep stealing while this is going on. If it looks as though they well be fired, they then claim alcohol or drug abuse which gives them another year to work WITHOUT being fired. big difference!
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
@xtaxpayer
I really hate the 500 character limit, don't you?
Pure capitalism is largely to blame for this issue...all the american companies are looking for ways to make gaggingly huge profits, and from a business standpoint it makes sense to build your product in countries with laxer laws and no form of wage control.
Unions here in North America stopped that exploitation (if not stopped, then greatly reduced)...so the companies go elsewhere. Don't want that to happen? Talk to the government
Alamandorious 1 year ago
@Alamandorious Safety? give me a break. Union Labor cry's safety when they don't want to work. Safety rules are OSHA, you see them around the job site. "Laxer laws"? Try this simple rule the lower the cost to due business the better it is for the business and the consumer. It still cost's companies less to build the product over seas and ship it here, than it does for the company to pay Union Labor cost's in this country. Think about what the Union has done to the average worker's job in America
xtaxplayer 1 year ago
@xtaxplayer
Going back to the safety issue, I've worked non-union and union. Whenever given a chance, a good portion of non-union companies will ignore safety regulations to cut costs...providing cheaper aluminum ladders for electrical work, for example, when the laws clearly require ladders made from non-conductive materials.
Sending a man up on the prongs of a forklift, having said forklift lift the man up so he can reach a junction box, rather than getting a scissor lift again, against law
Alamandorious 1 year ago
@Alamandorious Seriously?? You would go up a metal ladder against or on electrical wire's?? You're telling me that non-union foreman FORCE the workers to climb those ladder's. Yup, and Stalin didn't force peasants to dress in royal clothes, poured water on them turning them into frozen statutes. They wanted to do that right? You're the one that chooses. By the way on my way in to the office today a Union bridge crew WAS raising a worker up to the bridge. He was standing on the forks of the Lull.
xtaxplayer 1 year ago
Work Union, Live Better! In that order. Screw these clown's! Local 433 Cowboy's in the sky! Till the day I die!
irondog433lv 1 year ago
@irondog433lv That could be soon with the leadership you have. They do not care for you at all, just look at their agenda, unless you are happy with becoming communist?
ConstitutionalTrust 11 months ago
Comment removed
irondog433lv 1 year ago
UNIONIZE AMERICA!!!
tclabelqueen 1 year ago
@tclabelqueen Not unless we want to end America. I'm not happy with Socialism. It is only for the lazy among us that cannot prove themselves.
xtaxplayer 1 year ago
Ironworkers Local 433 L.A. Las Vegas! Till I die. This video is rat shit.
irondog433lv 1 year ago
@irondog433lv Spoken like a man that knows rat shit.
xtaxplayer 1 year ago
UNION YES!!!!!!
kshredder31 1 year ago
@kshredder31 Right on doggie
irondog433lv 1 year ago
Wonder how many of these people were actually in the union.
Alamandorious 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Alamandorious I was and thank God I am not now
xtaxplayer 1 year ago
@Alamandorious Their just a bunch of cry babies.
irondog433lv 1 year ago
The problem I have with this bullshit is you make all Unions a part of your situation. You may be telling the truth about you situation, But I don't here the other side of the story. I am an Iron worker for the Union, and I wouldn't hang a piece of iron any other way. The Union brothers for the other trades ALL Love and respect there union, and will fight tooth and nail for them Including myself. I will battle and brawl at the drop of a hat for my Union. And so will all my brothers.
irondog433lv 1 year ago 2
@irondog433lv *Hear* *their* Learn to English!
lj33p 1 year ago
@lj33p Learn to English? Dip stick.
irondog433lv 1 year ago